Mission Strategies

[Redbeard]

So I've been thinking a lot about ship composition for missions lately. As much as I enjoy mining, missions are really where the money is at high sec wise. People make good money SOLOing missions.. im bringing 6 ships, so I am trying to figure out the best way to just utterly annihilate these things so I can chain them.

Whatever i bring will be overkill since L4s are meant to be soloed. Im thinking, as a basis for the group:

1 gang linking strategic cruiser. If I go shields, were talking tengu. If I go armor, were talking legion.
1 noctis for full time looting / salvaging.

That leaves 4 ships. Again this will depend on whether I go shield or armor tanking.

- Read some good points online about using missile boats... basically, if im bringing this many ships, i want an "instant damage" type rather than missiles, because missiles have travel time so i could potentially be wasting ammo / time firing too many missiles at a target with 4 ships when the first missile in the volley would be sufficient.

- If I go with drone boats i will have zero ammo costs but will have to pay for lost / damaged drones. With this much fire power its feasible there wont be any lost drones, but you never know.

- t1 Laser weapons dont use depletable ammunition so after the initial investment, zero ammo cost.

Hmmm. 3 pimped domis perhaps?

Then Id just want a smaller ship type to help with fast frigs etc.

[ShadowKntSDS]

6 ships is uber overkill for missions. I'd consider a gang link setup for a level 4 a waste of pilot since there are no good DPS gang links. And, sadly, you get diminished returns pretty quickly. Once your pilots have enough skills to run a L4 by themselves, youd make more money by having each of them run their own missions rather than running them together. The time spent traveling between gates and back to your agent would easily be on par with the time you spent actually pew-pew-ing with that much fire power. This was a big complaint with EVE PVE, as playing with friend could lower your $/hour.

At least until worm holes came about. The wormhole encounters require team work unless you are running one of the lower level ones in a pimp ship. If you have 6 pilots, you could easily stomp most c1-c4's once properly setup.


That said, sentry drone domi's are awesome in groups. You can drop the drones, have them assist a gunship, and more or less forget about them. No travel time is a huge bonus. You can even use the high slots to remote rep.

[RobinGBrown]

Nice thing about Domis is you that they've got enough drone bay to have a second or third set of drones so you can switch from sentries to mediums or support

[Kromtor]

the domi, a beautiful metal whale of cost effective goodness.

[Redbeard]

if drones are set to assist, is it just like a "guard" or will they attack things I attack?

Im going back and forth on what i want to do.

I dont think I can manage running 6 missions at once lol. I was thinking maybe 2 groups of 3 could be cool.

One thing I know for sure is that, ESPECIALLY if im running more than 1 group, i want to overtank my stuff. The more i look into it though im thinking what about a killer running just a single gang link? Like for example rocking a nighthawk and then using the +shield resists gang link for good measure.

Not sure.

I know i hate hate hate hate having to warp out of missions... i have a domi on my main and he has maxed armor skills, etc. I tried an l4 last night and almost got popped they were doing so much damage to me. I dont know.

Id like to do an omnitank so I dont have to swap it aorund all the time but thats not necessarily going to be possible.

[ShadowKntSDS]

if drones are set to assist, is it just like a "guard" or will they attack things I attack?


Setting "Assist" on a fleet mate means they will attack w/e the fleet mate is attacking. We usually nominate someone as the "fire captain" for all the sentry drones to assist, and it is usually someone with a fast firing gun (lasers) so they can change targets faster after a bad guy goes pop. Sentry drones fire every ~4s, so there is some delay from when you first tell them to fire.



Im going back and forth on what i want to do.

I dont think I can manage running 6 missions at once lol. I was thinking maybe 2 groups of 3 could be cool.

Yeah running 6 missions at once is pretty unreasonable. 2 or 3 might be doable, especially in over tanked Domi's. You can take a uber tanked domi on a mission with no additional spawns, grab all the agro, release Ogre's and go make a sandwhich. 2-3 domi's would just make that faster. That said, it's not the most isk/hour efficient way to use a domi. If you micro manage it right, you can have a domi run with the best of them for solid DPS buy using guns and drones effectively, but that is hard to extend to 6 pilots easily.




One thing I know for sure is that, ESPECIALLY if im running more than 1 group, i want to overtank my stuff. The more i look into it though im thinking what about a killer running just a single gang link? Like for example rocking a nighthawk and then using the +shield resists gang link for good measure.

Not sure.

The gang mods that add resists stack funny, and generally dont add very much when it comes down to it. The ones that speed up repair rates coupled with the ones that reduce cap usage on reppers can easily boost your local and remotes tanks by 35%. That said, with the exception of a few missions, you should be able to tank the snot out of a domi without any gang links.


Additionally, since domi's don't NEED to use their high slots to do DPS, you could roll in with a few domis with remote reppers in the highs. Put 2x on each domi, and then have them all repair the one who gets agro. My posse has used 2x domis maxed out for remote rep to run C4 sites. These sites can crank out incoming ~3000 DPS and put level 4 missions to shame (random agro, 60km webs/scrams, remote repping rats, and other fun stuff).




I know i hate hate hate hate having to warp out of missions... i have a domi on my main and he has maxed armor skills, etc. I tried an l4 last night and almost got popped they were doing so much damage to me. I dont know.

Id like to do an omnitank so I dont have to swap it aorund all the time but thats not necessarily going to be possible.

These two are somewhat contradictory. If you want to take less damage, you dont want to omni tank. Surviving a level 4 with max armor skills is about fitting, not hitting triggers at the wrong time, and keeping agro off of your drones. You CAN omni tank a domi, especially if you put some $$$ into your fitting, but there is no need. Post up your fitting if you need some help.

[Redbeard]

Im at work, im sure my fitting is wonky though. It most certainly is NOT tailored for the mission I was doing... Ill just have to quit bellyaching and learn the missions damage types like everyone else so I can switch out drones / tank for effectiveness...

Dont know why im being weird, I know how the game works. Blah.

So you think just rock domis then shadow?

I could still split into two groups... train one char in each as the booster for the leadership bonuses (more hp etc)

If I was going to do that I would probably rock vexors for a whil in L2s (L3s?) to get the hang of it and skill up. HMMMM.

Edit:

When you did your remote rep gang how does that work? Does everyone still rock their own tank and then everyone focus fire RRs? those things eat a mean amount of cap. Or does nobody have their own reppers installed and you just rely on the gang?

[ShadowKntSDS]

Domi's are a great place to start. They are not the end all be all, but you can get a new character in them and contributing quickly. As long as they can tank themselves, even just some t1 drones add to the DPS. You can scale up to more DPS with more skills, and can add guns later. They would be my choice if i was building a 6 man team from scratch for level 4's.

It's pretty easy to setup a dual rep domi, and its hard to beat for ease of use. 2x repper, 3-4 hards, a DC, and then cap mods/rigs to suit. Any free slots can go to drone tracking modules.

[Redbeard]

Been pondering more, decided to drop 2 accounts. I dont need them for high sec mining and figuring out what to do mission wise was stressing me out... which defeats the whole purpose.

So rocking 4 now.

Can never make up my mind =P

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Still running 5 here. Eventual plan is to have 3 guys running missions, with one set up for mining for the missions that occasionally spawn rocks in the pockets, and a companion for him that does hauling, salvage and guards against rat spawns while he's cleaning up.

At least, that's what I'm thinking today. Running 5 guys at once ain't like WoW, fo sho. :P

[RobinGBrown]

I'm eventually going to settle on six accounts.

My one big annoyance with the choice of ships in EVE is that there isn't a decent hauler/salvager combination ship for supporting miners - unless the Noctis can lug stuff? Haven't looked at that yet.

Edit: 1496m3 with 3 low slots - not really a great hauler

[ShadowKntSDS]

The Orca is made to support miners. It can run mining gang links, has huge tractor bonuses, a massive cargo bay, a solid drone bay (5 mediums). The corp hanger allows the miners to drop the ore directly in the ship without needing to do a hand off. You can hold ~150k m3 of ore if you fit it for max cargo as it has a 50k m3 dedicated ore only hold on top of the corp hanger and cargo bay, and you can even shove 2x hulks in the ship bay.

I use mine as a mini freighter in high sec. Slap a MWD (needs a grid mod of implant) on it and it can align off of a gate in 10s.

I'm not sure what else you'd need in a support ship, but you wont find much better unless you step up to Rorqual.

[RobinGBrown]

No the Orca is great but not enough hislots to moutn a bunch of salvagers. Didn't know about the ore hold though, is that a new feature?

Edit: I hope it's a new feature because if not I could have been using the Orca a lot more.

[Meeo]

Ore Hold has been in since the inception of both the Rorqual and then the orca, The rorqual also has a ore only hold which holds 250k m3 ore only.

[RobinGBrown]

Sigh, it's amazing how you can miss something in EVE for such a long time....

[Ughmahedhurtz]

No the Orca is great but not enough hislots to moutn a bunch of salvagers. Is that such a big deal for the most part? My little salvage noob is in a destroyer with 6 salvagers and two tractors. I usually find that I can suck up most of the wrecks shortly after the last guy dies in the mission. Any faster and I'd have to grow a new me to drive the combat while I salvaged. :p 3 slots instead of 8 might be a bit short now that I think about it. I can drive 4 easily. (Note, I'm talking about salvaging while in missions; not salvaging rats that show up while mining. I'm pretty sure one tractor and one salvage could easily cope with the low volume of random spawn rats I've seen so far.)

What is your preference for a salvaging boat?

[ShadowKntSDS]

Marauders are the way to go really. 2x tractors and 1x T2 salvager can mop up wrecks* as fast as my Golem + Domi combo was able to make them. No need for salvage rigs or anything like that as the T2 salvager and the skills needed to use it are a huge boost over the T1 flavor. The range bonus means I don't even need to move around to salvage. Other than spending a minute or so after the last wreck is made, it's no extra time over the time to complete the mission.
(* only the BS sized wrecks and close by BC sized wrecks, the rest is meh).

I know thats not the greatest answer for low skilled pilots.

For mining ops, you really don't need a dedicated boat. Just slap a tractor + salvager on a hauler/orca.

I have not tried out the new salvaging ship (the Noctis), but I'm sure it would blow anything else away for the job of looting and salvaging.

[RobinGBrown]

I suppose it just feels inefficient. When multiboxing you get [number of accounts] * [number of hislots] to do stuff with.

First Setup:
6accounts * 3 strip miners = 1 ore per hour (no salvage)

Second Setup:
5 accounts * 3 strip miners = 5/6 ore perhour
+ 1 account * gang link/tractor/salvager

Third Setup:
5 accounts * 3 strip miners = 5/6 ore perhour
1 account * 2 gang link + tractor (no salvage)

Does the gang boost and salvage gained make up for the loss of one hulk? It should do but I'm just not sure...

Here's a trickier question - if I swap one miner for a battleship with heavy/sentry drones and salvagers does being able to use mining drones on the others make up for the loss?

Fourth Setup:
4 accounts * 3 strip miners = 4/6 ore perhour
1 account * 2 gang link + tractor
+ 25 mining drones = ?? ore per hour
1 account * guns/drones + salvage

[ShadowKntSDS]

Check this guide for all things mining:
http://www.lsjv-eve.com/guide/

Google to find the most up to date version. It's a solid PDF if you can find the actual up to date source, and is filled with all the math about mining you want.



I suppose it just feels inefficient. When multiboxing you get [number of accounts] * [number of hislots] to do stuff with.

First Setup:
6accounts * 3 strip miners = 1 ore per hour (no salvage)

Second Setup:
5 accounts * 3 strip miners = 5/6 ore perhour
+ 1 account * gang link/tractor/salvager

Third Setup:
5 accounts * 3 strip miners = 5/6 ore perhour
1 account * 2 gang link + tractor (no salvage)


If this is purely for a mining op with hulks, the salvage will not be of a notable value unless you are in 0.0 or WH space. Frig mining ships might be a different strory, since the don't mine so fast.
None of these setups have a hauler. All of my hulk setups can fill their own hold in 2 cycles, and thats with cargo rigs and extenders instead of mining laser upgrades. All of the uber mining setups have an Orca AND a hauler, where the orca is the buffer/collector for the ore while the hauler ferries it from the orca to the destination. The Corp hanger is what lets other people interact with the Orca without the orca pilot needing to do much.

Do the math on how much your strips will pull in an hour in m3.

There is also only 1 gang link that will affect your output, and its the one that decreases cycle time. So put a tractor and salvager on the Orca if you are going that way. The tractor will be useful for towing in cans regardless. If you ditch the salvager, then




Does the gang boost and salvage gained make up for the loss of one hulk? It should do but I'm just not sure...

Salvage will be negligible compared to a single hulk with t2 strips.

If my math is right, a max skilled Orca cuts down laser cycle time by about ~22.5%, which is a ~29% boost. 5 hulks + an Orca is more output than 6 hulks, but as I mentioned you can't just run 6 hulks without docking them all over few cycles to offload the ore. 5 hulks and an Orca is more ore/hour than 5 hulks and a hauler by far. Granted, it takes time to get max skills (and the mindlink implant), but if you need a hauler/cargo ship anyway, might as well use one that boosts output.



Here's a trickier question - if I swap one miner for a battleship with heavy/sentry drones and salvagers does being able to use mining drones on the others make up for the loss?

You really don't need the heavys/sentrys for DPS unless you are in WH space or 0.0, and in those cases, you'll need some PvP ships not to get raped by the first trigger happy pilot that comes along. 5-6 hulks worth of lights/meds will destroy anything in a high sec belt in seconds.

A BS's mining yield is pretty weak unless its completely tricked out for mining. Even then, it's only a little bit better than a retriever. (read the guide for the numbers.)

Mining drones are kind of meh solo, and in a big mining op, they will be too annoying for their output. You will clear belts so far that you'll want to have at least 3 warp in points to combat the slow speed of your ships. You'll probably drop the salvager for the laser range gang link.




Fourth Setup:
4 accounts * 3 strip miners = 4/6 ore perhour
1 account * 2 gang link + tractor
+ 25 mining drones = ?? ore per hour
1 account * guns/drones + salvage

You really don't need a gunship. Rats respawn pretty slowly in high sec belts, and you could easily swap ships to a gunship, kill the rats before there is any real chance your hulks will die from them if you have even a remotely good setup (i.e you slap on ANY shield resistance mods).

[d0z3rr]

T2 mining drones that are boosted by an Orca pilot with links + having the drone rigs on your miners will very much increase your isk/hour. This assumes you have also maxed out the various mining drone skills...

[ShadowKntSDS]

I did not know that the orca bonuses extended to the drones.

Maybe it's just a personal thing, but I hate micro managing mining drones. I use either cargo rigs, or rigs to help me fit my hulk with more MLU's.

[d0z3rr]

If it makes me more money I'll do it. I have T1 mining drones right now, and they definitely aren't worth the hassle. But I will use T2 once I ifnally get them (by then I'll definitely have an Orca and foreman maxed).