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View Full Version : [WoW] Cataclysm rant (some boxing stuff)



Shodokan
01-29-2011, 04:09 PM
I know that I made another thread asking what people are going to be doing but I feel that because this is basically going to be a huge post (No TL;DR) that it deserved it's own topic.

Cataclysm to me was basically going to be the reincarnation of vanilla. In some aspects this was correct but in a lot of others it has strayed just as far away from my expectations. Blizzard has made a great game and the game has evolved for the better (some can argue) all the way to this expansion. The idea that game game was too easy was very true but to me the whole idea that they were going to stress the new PVP environment of battlegrounds to be like they use to be (vanilla) where they actually mattered. In making this decision blizzard has neglected all other aspects of the PVP scene.

In the past blizzard decided that 2v2 was too unbalanced so it should not give the same rewards as say 3v3 or 5v5. The problem with this is that 5v5 is also unbalanced and the amount of players actually competing in this bracket world wide is lower than ever before. Don't get me wrong...I don't want 5v5 to be changed to be like 2v2 where it does not matter but there needs to be something done in order to get representation up. Players are not doing rated BG's as much as they are arena and this is the main area they started to focus PVP on. The fact remains that blizzard next patch is homogenizing nearly every single class to not only be like another class but have unified CC times. If classes are being made more the same and the focus is being aimed back at arena (arguably the reason behind this change) then why should there be no high rewards for dedication in the 2v2 bracket?

Moving away from PVP many of the games mechanics have remained the same or have moved slightly back (cc required). This is all well and good but the idea that these mechanics have been re-implemented is great and they were a crucial part of the game and should be, my only problem is that with this re-emphasis on this area of the game and the "difficulty"/length of dungeons make them take way too long, especially for casual gamers. The raiding really has not changed what so ever... new encounters with similar mechanics that just require people to work together and not be retarded. The idea that guilds are required for progression in the game is great... in theory. The practicality of this is that every joe schmoe is looking to get into a guild and the amount of time it takes to sort the "baddies" from the "goodies" has increased substantially. The idea of guilds being a requirement makes doing PUG raids nearly impossible and those places that they are possible are realms with multiple top guilds such as blackrock and illidan.

Making money is something that people use to be able to enjoy doing, but the homogenization of that has occurred too. EVERY profession especially on low/medium population servers require farming. In some way every aspect of this game has turned into a grind. Grind your way to max level, grind your normal dungeon gear, grind your heroic dungeon gear, grind your pvp gear...then you need to grind out bosses or arena matches. Yes I understand that this is a part of all MMOs but Cataclysm has made them not only rampant in every aspect of the game but has increased the time required for every single type of grind. PVP gear takes longer than ever yo obtain especially at losses (battlegrounds), PVE gear takes longer than ever to get because of the sheer amount of time it takes to run heroic dungeons and the amount of time one must invest in raiding if they want to be successful what so ever.

Then we get into multi-boxing.... in my personal opinion blizzard has basically successfully killed it. The only seemingly viable 5's comp is dks/paladin. Shaman were looking SO GOOD in the beta but now in practice they are horrible. Nerfing and homogenization of every class makes it so that there really is no point in trying to be unique or looking for things that COULD work because the grind to get to that point of efficient testing is just too much of a time sink. PVE teams are basically just adapting to the content just like any normal player so I don't think that this is as big a deal as all the normal modes of dungeons have been completed... just a matter of time for heroics.

Part of what keeps me boxing is my ability to make gold faster than others. That has slowly changed because of the material requirements for professions being simply absurd in most cases. There are fewer areas in which to farm these materials it seems than in the previous expansions as well as less things to grind out (no rep items, nothing) which puts more competition into every single market. Half the materials one can make (cough truegold cough) are used by a small portion of the game and that relies heavily on their ability to be lucky/successful in PVE environments.

Blizzard has ignored the users of the game for a while now. Things that made classes different and fun from one another are slowly being stripped away. I'm not saying that this expansion is terrible or anything by that means... I'm just saying that so much has changed... and not for the better that it could be the ultimate downfall of the game. WoW will kill WoW, we all know that. Will Cataclysm be an ironic title? Time will tell, but if they don't figure out exactly what the masses actually want from their gaming experience then it's not going to go over well. Catering to the people who enjoy the grinds, have lots of time invested in the game and are what people consider the Elitist players... that is fine but there should be aspects of the game that cater to the casual as well, this isn't EQ.

katsurahama
01-29-2011, 04:46 PM
I no longer have end game level toons since i started over. But i agree with what you said about bring back bgs like in vanilla. For me, that was the closest wow ever got to eq - grinding to high warlord (i only made it to general) and the friends i made all over the world through pvping in bgs. I quit when arenas came out. They started screwing with class mechanics for the cooldown orgy arenas and it seems like theyre back to that again. Then they started damage inflation so they came out with resilience to 'fix' that.

I absolutely loved doing bgs back in vanilla. Classes could contribute in DIFFERENT ways. It wasnt about line of sight or cooldowns. I loved playing a holy priest in pvp groups.

I know some people love arenas but i personally wish they never came out with them. I wish they had made more bgs instead and auto kicked afkers. Now blizz is back to screwing with the game because of arenas. XXY always kills XYZ so lets make Z>X within a ten second window and see what that does to arena comps. Who cares what it does to the rest of the game.

As far as multiboxing goes i do it because i dont have to pug with tards.

Multibocks
01-29-2011, 04:55 PM
I imagine come 4.1 we will be mowing through heroics like we used to... Solo I can chain pull on my tank and go right into boss fights without so much as a ready check. Sometimes the trash hits harder than the bosses, but come ilvl 372 items I'm sure we will do much better. As for grinds I feel ya, you can't have access to anything without a grind or getting lucky in a BH raid. I remember being only able to clear two heroics when 3.0 hit. I haven't tried any public raids so I'm not sure how hard the current PuG raid atmosphere is...

I do agree with you on arena, something needs to change to make it worth my time. I don't like that I need 5 wins to get points.. Do they understand how hard that is for a team that's just starting?

Sam DeathWalker
01-30-2011, 06:22 PM
I have had no problem in playing the AH game, I just buy materials off the AH (let others farm) and make a very good profit. I have like 2 Healer decks and like 40 or more cards after spending 10K a day on herbs for inscription (the only profession I could make top end stuff with at level 80). Im spending 2 hours a day making the darkmoon decks, I also do the truegold but Its getting lucky to make 50G per transmute off it. Only profit is procs really.

I have tons of the low level herbs still (6 banks full) if I want more alchmey, and my netherweave bags (cost 3g in materials at the end of wotlk) are going for 15g easy lol .... Two banks full of netherweave cloth was a killing. Course I lost over 40K of stuff when I didn't check my mail for over 30 days lol ...

I dumped my shaman and will make mages, cept for the shaman I am keeping as healers.

I guess the way I did it in EQ (a ton of casters for the core dps and then support characters around them) was the way to go in WoW even though when I started WoW I also felt that shaman would be best.

Gotta play the game you have not the game you wish you had.

Acidburning
01-30-2011, 09:44 PM
are you saying the pvp grind is harder now than vanilla?

I only got to like rank 11 or 12, 13 or 14 would have taken something like another 1-2 months and maintaining a certain amount of honor each day/ week. Plus, you had to roll almost 24/7 with the premade 12's & 13's. Either you joined the honor premades to keep a leveling playing field for who needed to obtain rank 14, or you were blacklisted.

Anyways, I feel some of your pain. I have leveled 1 toon to 85, havn't played very much with my guild that started with BC. I love them all, just very bored with the game.

You are right, it's the same as it has been, all the grinding, regrinding, and more grinding just takes a toll after a few expansions.

acid

naPS
01-31-2011, 12:55 AM
Wow, I've had the exact opposite experience. I'm making money hand over fist with Truegold and my 10 max level alchemists. I always stock up on my mats during the week, first thing in the morning, since that's when they are always cheapest. Things go for 10g more a pop by the end of the day.

I've got a totally viable team, and it's 5 different classes. Saying only Pally / Shammy is viable is not true. It takes a little more creativity, but it's definitely doable.

Kromtor
01-31-2011, 12:57 AM
i'm pretty sure he meant viable in arenas. boxing will always be viable in dungeons.

Zappy
01-31-2011, 12:40 PM
/agreed on almost every point and can add some of my own rant.

Blizz successfully killed WG & TB by not letting you queue as a group, so no point in trying to multibox that on a server with decent population. If you want the best enchants in the game right now, you have to pay an arm and a leg for them as no 5 man content is going to provide the maelstrom crystals. Arena 5s are no longer fun at all. Last season, I would play a good 50+ games a night, simply because it was enjoyable to face so many comps. Now it's a matter to queue up, wait for 10 minutes and see that same teams repeatedly. What's worse, is that most teams that face a boxer (even the bad teams) can learn how to play better to defeat you, so it makes it very tough to get those wins in. Every week I've met the scrubs conquest cap, but I get no enjoyment from it.

This expansion has really nailed it for me. Everything has turned into a major time sink. Rep grinds for shoulder/head enchants, which I may point out are even worse now that they are no longer boa, which means you need to farm that crap on every team. Then you have the bg grind where someone calculated you need to spend something like 5hrs for each piece of gear.

I transferred from a low pop server about a year ago and now that cataclysm is out, the only difference is that orgrimmar has more people in it. Since they added flying mounts to the game and the LFD tool, they've effectively killed world pvp. After they added the Isle, I thought they were getting back on track to what people love in the game, but those days are long gone.

I see my wow days being short numbered, and honestly the best way for people to give blizzard the feedback they need is to quit signing their paychecks.

Apps
01-31-2011, 03:34 PM
I’m seeing a little of both sides here.

The Negative – Old schoolers, like myself, don’t really feel the game. Yeah, some stuff is back. But its back, mixed with the crap we hated from BC and especially Wrath. (Grumbles…Effing Wrath!!) The mixing of the “bloodlines” is taboo. So those of us, who are true Old Schoolers, really dislike it. PVP is weird. Its still got an air of “win win win, = epics plx! YAY” Piff. I recall working for your epics. Having really nice gear, and Roflstomping people who didn’t.

The Positive – Actually, it’s similar to the negative. I rather enjoy seeing groups struggle. It’s now back to a feeling of accomplishment to finish a Raid. CC’s are back. That’s great. Players actually have to implement a strategy for each pull and especially the boss fights. No more Wrathers who “run in and pew pew pew, loot plx, I’M AWESOME”. So lame. Being constantly 1 tick away from God mode is stupid. The harder content, shows exactly who’s got skill with their class, and who’s used to relying more on gear, and the pew pew.

Regarding the AH… I’ve never been richer than now. I have one toon that’s gold capped. And I’m on my way to a second. Nah, the AH is a gold farmers playground. There are days, I can tell you exactly who is doing the same things I do. I see their names across the boards. J cheeky devils.

Mukade
01-31-2011, 04:39 PM
Really the only thing that's keeping me in the game is the fact that twinking is picking up again (What got me started with multiboxing, because it's easier to make twinks when you can boost yourself through dungeons for the gear). Only problem with it is the class imbalance is so f-ed up that only half the classes are viable in 19s.

I've got one 85, and I just can't be assed with making any more. I used to really enjoy doing dungeons like Setthek Halls back in TBC, but I honestly can't see myself doing cata dungeons with the current players (even those in my guild are a bit too casual). I did Setthek Halls again on my way to 85 (brand new SV hunter made after 4.0.1), and I was pretty much the only one there who had a clue.

The tank had a habit of pulling multiple groups, breaking all CC, and getting himself either feared or mind controlled (thankfully he was a bear so at least I could CC him). No-one had a clue what kind of kill order they should do, and it was only thanks to the quality of my gear that I could DPS down the fearing and MCing mobs while everyone else ignored the skulls.

The last boss wiped out everyone but me and one of the DPS (the one with the least damage done) in his first arcane explosion, after I'd told them to LoS behind the pillars when he starts casting. I ended up pretty much soloing him, and he only died to my serpent sting and immolation trap ticks after killing me.

Wipe after wipe after wipe (and a few close calls where I managed to finish off a pack thanks to finally being able to CC, while everyone else was running in), and no-one made any improvement, despite me pointing out the most dangerous mobs, and telling them time and again that the dungeon is tough as hell, and needs either CC or focussing on some mobs.

If CC is needed more than it was there, I'm not going near cata heroics, even with an SV hunter.