Mosg's DK Manifesto Version 2.0

[Mosg2]

http://www.justin.tv/mosg2/b/278353687

I don't have the energy to post a Table of Contents for it--You'll have to skip through it if you want one particular explanation or wait until when I'm not bone-dead tired :)

So... Thoughts?

[outdrsyguy1]

ooOOOoooOOOhhhhh.....
a new thread for all of us to tear up :)
cant' wait to see the vid.

[Shodokan]

Great vid.

Good explanation of everything. It sorta puts some life back into me for the team. I'm in a really odd place right now where the three people i played with just quit... so the whole idea of even single boxing isn't really a good idea for me.

With school being as hectic as it is for me, most of my playtime for this team is going to be on weekends it seems so the ques shouldn't be TOO bad.

So do you pop your burst key up front so you can put IBF up when you start your advance?

I agree that dark sim is a place for improvement but iirc you cast dark sim's spell by using dark sim and not by using the spell itself so it should be easy to macro. But seeing what spell is being cast by whom etc isn't going to be easy to react to most of the time.

[Mokoi]

Who's that sexy gnome warlock party! they look skilled.

[Toned]

WTB Text Version PST.

[Shodokan]

Tony, you made a mistake not being human... ;) for secret reasons... dun dun dun!

Also, are you engineering yet? The rocket gloves is another 25k up front minimum.

[Mosg2]

I'm probably going to drop JC and level Engineering... again. Sigh. It's ~5k for 5 toons, less ~30% for resilience. You're still looking at ~17k damage with most people having a health pool of ~120k or so. That's pretty significant.

Damn you tooltip errors!

[ghonosyph]

lol toned i concur! I've got a wierd setup for my dks as i prefer to have the hotkeys all over the place, one question i'd be worried about, and the reason i dont have it set up like you is the "up press" portion of your dps spam which calls all those modified keys... wont that get us in trouble via the 1 action rule? i would argue against it that i could do the same thing with my face and my keyboard lol but still


I've only just been leveling my dks/pally but i cant wait to implement some of the goodies you've shown 8) much more efficient than my way lol GO GO MOSG!!! :D /3cheers

[remanz]

well the tazik shocker is a good addition to melees, free nuke is free. Too bad my paladins had no spell pen, and my natural shocks got resisted a lot. 30k G wasted on paladins to level those.

It makes more sense for the DKs.

[Mosg2]

I misremember where the post is but having one button actually send multiple keypresses is legitimate. It went something along the lines of, you could just glue a piece of tongue depressor onto two keys so that when you hit either one it would send both keypresses so there's no way for us to monitor it.

Anyone had any magic ideas about Dark Simulacrum?

[Fat Tire]

Anyone had any magic ideas about Dark Simulacrum?

You mean a DS macro? I could give you mine if that is what you are asking.

[Ualaa]

The whole one key = one action, has been horribly misquoted a thousand times or so.

The point the GM was making was every action is a direct result of an input that occurs now.
Specifically, not the result of an input from 3 seconds or 9 seconds in the past; they don't want you to push one key now, have it Frost Nova, back up for a GCD, Cone of Cold, while you back up for another GCD, then Presence of Mind + Pyroblast... all as a result of the single initial push.

The game has this thing called the Global Cooldown, which specifically prevents you from initiating more actions at a given time, than they want you to use in that window of time.
You can push Scorch, Fireball, Cone of Cold and Blizzard, but they will not all fire off.
And even if you were to push all four hotkeys, whichever one fires off is a direct result of an input you made at the time the ability went off.




Taken from our Wiki:

"Here's the thing - that's not 5 actions. It's one action, per character.

It would not be okay, if, for example, you had those macros set up so that you had one button to cast frost nova, wait out the global cooldown, blink, delay for global cooldown, then cast blizzard all in a single button press. That is, of course, several button presses.

So, to expand your definition: 'safe' multi-boxing commands are one button press = one action per character."

Malkorix, Blizzard Poster
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=9879768787&pageNo=1&sid=1#9

[Noids]

I haven't used DS at all yet. I generally pick the healer as my first focus target though so wouldn't it make sense just to hit that target with 4 DS at the outset also? Worst case scenario I would pick up a heal, best case scenario I would pick up some sort of defensive cooldown like pain suppression, bubble etc. Even better would be something like a fear. Either way if you use it up front on your first mana using target which you are unloading on, hopefully you scare them into using something big which you can then replicate.

The alternative would be to just pick a dps mana user. That way you are more likely to replicate a dps spell, although from what I've read this isn't great as what you actually produce is the base damage of the spell altered using your spell coefficients. For this reason I like the idea of trying to evoke a utility spell of some sort rather than a weak dps spell.

[Toned]

I hate leveling engineering... already did it on my shamans, but when My dks hit 85 I'm going to do it again /wrists.

When I'm not raiding im tearing up BGs or WOTLK dungeons with my Dk's and it is hilarious. The Howling Blast nerf is going to make 1 - 2 shotting a mass pack of people in AV a little harder, but we'll manage :)

[Vociferate]

Wasn't expecting the Gnome race change, lol...

Anyway, great video and a LOT of great information.

My only question is about the setup for the Hungering Cold bar spam.....

Couldn't you leave the other spells hotkeys the same, and only create a new one for the Obliterate button?

IE: "X" sends IWT, Assist, DPS 1,2,3,4,5,6 + Mind Freeze

"Y" sends IWT, Assist, 7,8,9,4,5,6 + Mind Freeze

Or am I missing something?

[Shodokan]

you are missing the fact that it doesn't move to next action for a bit.

[Mosg2]

Yeah. The whole point of the separate button for Hungering Cold spam is so that you get one every 3-5 seconds while everyone is still DPS'ing single target.

[Mokoi]

i think the question refers to the extra bar for hungering cold, which also includes the other spells you have in your HB bar, ie: necrotic strike and blood strike

[Shodokan]

i think the question refers to the extra bar for hungering cold, which also includes the other spells you have in your HB bar, ie: necrotic strike and blood strike

He doesn't use necrotic in bar two or spam key 2 (the hungering cold one) from what it looked like to me.

[Vociferate]

i think the question refers to the extra bar for hungering cold, which also includes the other spells you have in your HB bar, ie: necrotic strike and blood strike

Yeah, that's what I was referring too.

I changed a little bit with the pally healing setup.

I didn't like having to use 5 keys for setting the focus, since it's a personal preference. I just set up 2 Repeater Regions and have a Set Focus on Scroll Up & Clear on Scroll down, while having a few of the other abilities set.

Still getting used to the auto healing macro setup, but man it really does dish out some massive heals. Holy cow.

[Mosg2]

Yeah, I'm pretty happy with the mindless healing that it puts out.

[Noids]

I levelled my DKs as gnomes and have loved the automatic snare dispel since the start. Would probably prefer the autmotaic nature for it over the reduction from 1.75mins to 1.5mins but I can understand the need to remove this aspect.

I initially thought the small size would be handy for click targeters but given all of the means for targeting with arena bars, tab etc. this doesn't really seem to be a bonus any more.

My priest is a dwarf (back from the days when the guild needed a dorf priest for fear ward on Ony and Mags :P) and stoneform is quite a neat defensive cooldown for him also. With the new patch, as well as dispelling diseases and poisons the AR bonus will be 10% flat DR which is a nice skill for my healer.

[Ualaa]

My five DK's were/are gnomes.

I'm still considering transferring them to the horde, for Blood Elves.
But they're so far behind the pvp curve, they probably won't be fun to honor grind now.

I might go 5x DK's and then trade the Priest back to the mixed PvE heroic team.
Five DK's will be easier to manage than four plus a healer; the team would be far less competitive at higher end pvp, but still fun to mess around with in non-rated battlegrounds.

[Toned]

Has anyone toyed with a macro to grip arena1-5 into you right before you Hungering Cold? Granted you just put one of your best abilities for maintaining pressure on cooldown x4, but you just landed a lot of CC, and if the other team trinkets drop another HC on them.

It's just random theorycrafting... my Dk's are almost to Cata content :)


Instead of a master macro for DarkSim what about something like this:

IsBoxer Sends a macro like this on DK1: /target[nodead,exists] arena5 /target[nodead,exists] arena1 DK2-4 also have the macros going to them with the appropriate targets.
Then sends your Keybind where you have the DarkSim bound.

This way you just cast back whatever you steal on all enemies and hope for something good. Instead of having a hardcoded list. If you don't cast back the spell does darksim not go on cooldown? If that's the case
then a hardcoded list would be best. That way you only use it for the spells you want, but from what I remember from beta it goes on CD if you use the reflect portion or not.

[ashlor]

My five DK's were/are gnomes.

I'm still considering transferring them to the horde, for Blood Elves.
But they're so far behind the pvp curve, they probably won't be fun to honor grind now.


Yeah I feel you on that one my team has been 85 for about a month now and with my current play schedule I find it hard to even think about the honor grind let alone get into an arena match wearing pvp shoulders and the rest quest greens =(

[Multibocks]

I'm experiencing this right now. My DKs don't have any resil (all pve gear) and my priest has one piece. Of course the priest gets focused down, but I manage to kill a few. What did surprise me is that I kill more people as unholy, guess all the pets running around confuses people. I imagine frost gets better as my pvp gear improves.

[Ualaa]

The important thing is to cap out on Conquest points each week, if possible.
It is pretty impossible to win in arena, without resilience gear.

So if possible, run each of your team in 3's (as one toon + two other players).
To get your wins and points for the week.

And then run as many battlegrounds as you can stomach.
Picking up the honor gear as you go.

[pinotnoir]

I capped my points by doing 2v2 with my guys. Now they are all grown up with over 3k resil and I am looking forward to trying 5v5. The pally healer is the way to go. If you are using a priest prepare yourself for tons of frustration. Just capping my points with my priest healer drives me up the wall. When I use the pally its so much easier to win.

I have not had this much fun pvping since BC with my 5 shamans. It will wear off once I get all the upgrades but its fun for now. I need to setup my guys for the 4 sec round robin ice cc. That would be great in arenas.

[Toned]

Make the player made resilience plate and get honor offslots + either a decent 346 weapon on each through heroics or spend the cash on the crafted 346 weapons.

[Zzc2]

So what professions are worth it for this team?

[Ualaa]

I would go Alchemy to 485, for the Volatile transmute.
That transmute, will make you gold and get your Alchemy to the 525 cap.

Beyond that, Engineering is probably best for PvP.
If you'll do heroics with the team, one toon should have Enchanting for disenchanting.
Mining is more health, but DPS is probably worth more.
Similar idea with Skinning, you get some Crit but Jewelcrafting for superior gems or Blacksmithing for more sockets is probably a bigger bang for the buck, if you don't want to do the Engineering.

Not sure that Alchemy is #2 for PvP play.
But you get the free Flask which is nice.
Or double duration on anything you can make yourself, which is a nice profession bonus.

[Multibocks]

I finally had the time to watch the whole thing. Lots of thinking going on, I like it!

How has arenas been going? I know lots of people have been complaining about the queue times.

[ebony]

So Horde Whats better rase for DeathKngihts am thinking goblins they got a blink kinda spell?


Think am going to try the DeathKnight road as well

[Ualaa]

Blood Elf for horde.
Because the racial silence is off of the GCD.
Which essentially lets you lock out any casters (AoE) in the kill zone.
With a relatively short refresh.

Go the same set up as Mind Freeze.
Create a mapped key with a step for each Blood Elf on the team.
Set them to not advance for 3-4 seconds.
Give it an extra step, at the end and set that to not advance for 5 mins or so.
But set the entire mapped key to reset to step 1, 'x' seconds after the first press (which allows the silence to refresh).
Then imbed that as a Do Mapped Key action, in your main dps sequence.

I went with an extra step early.
That doesn't do anything, but won't advance for 4 seconds.
So when I'm killing crap mobs.
The ones that die in 2-3 seconds or even instantly from one attack.
Well, they don't have me waste the silence.
But any combat that lasts more then three moves...
And the silence starts.



If you like Goblins, go with them.
They'll be a fun race.
But I would bet Blood Elves are mechanically better.

[ebony]

Blood Elf for horde.
Because the racial silence is off of the GCD.
Which essentially lets you lock out any casters (AoE) in the kill zone.
With a relatively short refresh.

Go the same set up as Mind Freeze.
Create a mapped key with a step for each Blood Elf on the team.
Set them to not advance for 3-4 seconds.
Give it an extra step, at the end and set that to not advance for 5 mins or so.
But set the entire mapped key to reset to step 1, 'x' seconds after the first press (which allows the silence to refresh).
Then imbed that as a Do Mapped Key action, in your main dps sequence.

I went with an extra step early.
That doesn't do anything, but won't advance for 4 seconds.
So when I'm killing crap mobs.
The ones that die in 2-3 seconds or even instantly from one attack.
Well, they don't have me waste the silence.
But any combat that lasts more then three moves...
And the silence starts.



If you like Goblins, go with them.
They'll be a fun race.
But I would bet Blood Elves are mechanically better.


thanks for this i see where u comeing from though the goblins look so cool ;) and they have got a kind of helpfull thing as they can get out of roots (i think)

[Vociferate]

I wish that worgen's had a better racial. They look so damn cool as a DK. In love with them. But man they suck racially compared to a human.

And as far as a BE goes, they seem amazing. I'd even think better than a human for the soul purpose of facerolling any and all casters.

[Selz]

Did the Necrotic strike get a stealth nerf?

I know it should be nerfed in 4.0.6 but it seems it already is affected by resillience? anyone know?

[Mosg2]

Yeah they stealth nerfed it like, a month ago to be affected by resilience.

[Noids]

This is my 4th week in arenas now and I am finally seeing the light. My DKs and priest all have just shy of 3k resil now and the DKs buffed have 10k AP with 13% mastery. Most importantly I took the advice of everyone and grabbed 170 spell pen (WTB a 25SP/20Str purple gem :P).

My results this week are 6-1. Prior to that I had been losing approximately 75% of my games. Now this wasn't through cycling against the same nub team, I queued at several different times and got 20-50 points from each game. It feels like I have just broken through this threshold where my priest is tough enough that the other team can spend up to 30s trying to kill him whilst my DKs are relatively free to take them apart. By the time my priest dies (if he does) I still get 12s of spammed PoH to take out the 1-2 players that survived the initial onslaught.

So for those that are finding it a tough grind still, follow Ualaa's advice. Get all the crafted res gear to start with then grind BGs to get your honour gear. Go for 2 piece bonus initially for the 400 res. Do the Crucible of Carnage quest line to get the 333lvl weapons (not sure 346 lvl ones are worth it considering you will upgrade to 359 after 3 weeks). Beg, steal or borrow to get your conquest cap each week and then get your epic weps and you are home free.

Now just can't wait to see what 4.0.6 throws up in its final form and I am quite keen to try an unholy build as an alternative. Tbh the nerf to howling blast doesn't really seem to bad to me now though considering the buffs we got in return, but I am looking forward to playing a pet class again and if the anti-snare talent goes through untouched, I have to try it before it gets nerfed :P

Cheers

[Selz]

Yeah they stealth nerfed it like, a month ago to be affected by resilience.

Okay good to know, so all in all the next patch isnt gonna feel different for us :)

[Multibocks]

This is my 4th week in arenas now and I am finally seeing the light. My DKs and priest all have just shy of 3k resil now and the DKs buffed have 10k AP with 13% mastery. Most importantly I took the advice of everyone and grabbed 170 spell pen (WTB a 25SP/20Str purple gem :P).

My results this week are 6-1. Prior to that I had been losing approximately 75% of my games. Now this wasn't through cycling against the same nub team, I queued at several different times and got 20-50 points from each game. It feels like I have just broken through this threshold where my priest is tough enough that the other team can spend up to 30s trying to kill him whilst my DKs are relatively free to take them apart. By the time my priest dies (if he does) I still get 12s of spammed PoH to take out the 1-2 players that survived the initial onslaught.

So for those that are finding it a tough grind still, follow Ualaa's advice. Get all the crafted res gear to start with then grind BGs to get your honour gear. Go for 2 piece bonus initially for the 400 res. Do the Crucible of Carnage quest line to get the 333lvl weapons (not sure 346 lvl ones are worth it considering you will upgrade to 359 after 3 weeks). Beg, steal or borrow to get your conquest cap each week and then get your epic weps and you are home free.

Now just can't wait to see what 4.0.6 throws up in its final form and I am quite keen to try an unholy build as an alternative. Tbh the nerf to howling blast doesn't really seem to bad to me now though considering the buffs we got in return, but I am looking forward to playing a pet class again and if the anti-snare talent goes through untouched, I have to try it before it gets nerfed :P

Cheers

Awesome to see a priest driving DKs, gives me a bit of hope since everyone else uses paladins.

[cmeche]

My team really feals gimped today. I know Howling Blast got nerfed, but everything feels completely weaker than i was last night.
I just played TB and about 8 5v5 games. I couldnt even get anyone down to 40% in 5s.......whereas last night i went 5-10 with most of the losses being really close.

[Ualaa]

Haven't tested the Ferals; Rake/Rip were nerfed by the 10% advertised, but the Mastery increases bleeds much more than before. The Mangle Cat tooltip shows 100% weapon damage more than the test notes reported. Of course Berserk & Power Shifting were both nerfed as advertised, so aside from the trinket a feral has zero means of escaping fear or any root.

Hopefully teams can adjust/adapt whatever, and remain competitive and fun.

[Multibocks]

My team really feals gimped today. I know Howling Blast got nerfed, but everything feels completely weaker than i was last night.
I just played TB and about 8 5v5 games. I couldnt even get anyone down to 40% in 5s.......whereas last night i went 5-10 with most of the losses being really close.

Oh looking forward hearing more on this...

[Vociferate]

I am wondering if anyone has made the switch to Unholy.

I was playing with it a bit last night, and it seems... Interesting, really. I think it just feels very different than at it was with Frost, but I am going to get a lot of playing time in this weekend and I'll be able to post more about it.

Has anyone else made the switch?
Or playing with it. I would like to speak with 'ya and bounce ideas really.

[cmeche]

Oh looking forward hearing more on this...

Well, after that post, I was able to win my 5 games for the week, although i do still feal a little gimped on the aoe side. i am liking the idea of maybe running with 1 unholy for the sp debuff. Might try that later.

[thedreameater]

I am wondering if anyone has made the switch to Unholy.

I was playing with it a bit last night, and it seems... Interesting, really. I think it just feels very different than at it was with Frost, but I am going to get a lot of playing time in this weekend and I'll be able to post more about it.

Has anyone else made the switch?
Or playing with it. I would like to speak with 'ya and bounce ideas really.

Eager to hear an update. Anyone still frost? Is Unholy working better for ya'll? Haven't seen an updated arena vid from Mokoi in a while either. :(

[remanz]

The root that the Frost talent Chilblains (http://db.mmo-champion.com/s/50043/chilblains/) gives to Chains of Ice (http://db.mmo-champion.com/s/45524/chains-of-ice/) is now properly affected by diminishing returns and shares diminishing returns with other root effects.
Dark Transformation (http://db.mmo-champion.com/s/63560/dark-transformation/) now increases pet damage by 60%, down from 80%.
Death Coil (http://db.mmo-champion.com/s/47541/death-coil/) damage has been reduced by 15%.
The pet damage bonus from Shadow Infusion (http://db.mmo-champion.com/s/49572/shadow-infusion/) is now 6% per stack, down from 8%.


well unholy had it coming. Next on the list is shadow priest. I don't see 5 unholy working out too well. I am using 3 frost 1 unholy for the spell debuff.

Hybrids right now are blowing most of the pure dps out of the water post 4.0.6, except hunter.

Shadow Priest, Balance Druid, Elemental shaman, Retribution Paladin, Fury Warrior, all above mage warlock on single target dummy dps.

[Multibocks]

God dammit I felt like my unholy team had just gelled... Bdheddjdhsnsjsjsjdjdj!!!!!!

[Darm]

For Unholy --

1) What would be the conventional wisdom for a spec? Id' assume you have to put a few points into Frost to have the zero runic power cost Mind Freeze?


2) I'm not an expert on Unholy DKs, but Scourge Strike would be spell with the highest priority for damage, right? And I'd presume Death Coil would be used to dump runic power as it accumulated. Scourge Strike is more effective with more diseases on the target, so that means a rotation that puts Frost Fever and Blood Plague has to be developed without applying them too often.

I suppose Festering Strike would be good for refreshing dots, but again, you don't want to be using that too often otherwise Unholy runes would be unavailable for Scourge Strike.

Necrotic Strike also takes a single unholy rune, but I guess I'm not familiar with Scourge Strike to know whether forgoing Necrotic Strike's healing debuff in favor of Scourge Strike is worth that trade.

3) Unholy Frenzy -- not familiar with this effect at all, sounds like it could help with the frontloaded damage.


Is that about right, or have I gone astray somewhere?

[Ualaa]

Unholy would prioritize Unholy runes, the same as Frost prioritizes Howling Blast + Frost Strike.
Death Coil is likely your best runic power dump, with Rune Strike being your other option.

You would want to ensure your Unholy runes are constantly used if possible.
So you always have maximum benefit from Death's Advance.

Chance are, Blood runes would still be Blood Strike.
Your Frost runes would likely be Icy Touch for the application of Frost Fever.
Unholy is largely Diseases + Pet.

Not sure if you'd want Necrotic Strike or Plague Strike more.
Anti-healing vs greater raw damage.
Look at it from the point of view of amount of healing required to completely heal the target.

[dancook]

nvm

[Vociferate]

http://www.justin.tv/mosg2/b/278353687

First post of the thread.

Watch all of the videos, in my opinion. There is a lot of vital and amazing information.

[cmeche]

It would be nice to get the major points that Mosg2 makes in each of his vids in writing. There is sooo much info in the vid that it is hard to go back and pinpoint specific topics....like macros, isboxer setting. Even his nice Unholy macros are mixed in this thread somewhere.

[Vociferate]

In Mosg2's defense, it is a lot of work just to do the videos. Add a post that needs to be updated frequently, that starts cutting into a lot more time being devoted.

As for the video(s), I would simply download them and watch them at my own pace. And while watching them I made notes of times and macro's so I can go back with an index of sorts to find the relevant information. Worked great for me, and I had some notes on paper to refer back too and go over when setting everything up.

[Darm]

Unholy would prioritize Unholy runes, the same as Frost prioritizes Howling Blast + Frost Strike.
Death Coil is likely your best runic power dump, with Rune Strike being your other option.


OK, what about spec -- 0/8/33 ? I think you have to make some hard choices in Unholy, but I think those might be necessary to get the zero runic power Mind Freeze.

I'm just theorycrafting here, but I guess I'm not completely sold on how awesome Death's Advance is. Don't get me wrong, for a solo DK, I am convinced that it is awesome. But, in a 4 DK set up with 4 deathgrips, and with Howling Blast appplying a ranged snare, was the target running away really that big of a problem?

The other problem that I'm a little worried about is -- if your target is out of range, how are you going to activate those Unholy runes to activate Death's Advance. It's not an unsolvable problem, but I can see situations where your target is just out of range, your Unholy rune refreshes and bang, you're stuck. Of course, you still have 4 death grips. So maybe it is more of a wash.

An additional concern is keeping diseases up on the target, because that's important for Unholy DPS, without refreshing them too often which would result in a net DPS decrease. I think that's a trickier problem for Unholy than it is for Frost.

On the other hand, Unholy Frenzy looks like a very interesting talent and potentially a very good way to increase frontloaded damage.

I'm really curious to hear if anyone has a good solution to an Unholy DPS macro/priority system that would be workable with IS.

[Ualaa]

If you take the talents for Mind Freeze to be no runes and no runic power.
Then treat Mind Freeze as if you were still Frost.

Create a four step mapped key.
Step 1
-- Keystroke Action > Mind Freeze Keybind > DK #1
-- Do Not Advance for 2.5 Seconds.
Step 2
-- Keystroke Action > Mind Freeze Keybind > DK #2
-- Do Not Advance for 2.5 Seconds.
Step 3
-- Keystroke Acton > Mind Freeze Keybind > DK #3
-- Do Not Advance for 2.5 Seconds.
Step 4
-- Keystroke Action > Mind Freeze Keybind > DK #4
-- Do Not Advance for 2.5 Seconds.



Then imbed that, into your spam DPS key.

Hotkey: 'x'
Step 1
-- Do Mapped Key > FTL Assist Me > Current Window
-- Do Mapped Key > Mind Freeze > Current Window
-- Keystroke Action > Warcraft Keybind for Main Ability
Step 2
-- Keystroke Action > Main Ability
-- Keystroke Action > Other Ability
-- Keystroke Action > Other Ability
-- Keystroke Action > Other Ability
-- Keystroke Action > Other Ability
-- Keystroke Action > Other Ability

[Darm]

]Ualas does a lot of work here.Gosh, Ualaa, I'm sorry I didn't mean to create a lot of extra work for you like that. I appreciate the help with the mechanics. Here is what I'm driving at though.

There are, I think, about 3ish reasonable approaches to take as far as settling on the Unholy DPS rotation. All three of course would use Death Coil to proc Dark Transformation and as a way to dump runic power. Mind Freeze also would be on round robin.

Approach #1

- Icy Touch when Frost Runes are available
- Blood Strike when Blood Runes are available
- Scourge Strike when Unholy Runes are available.

Advantage: All the attacks are single rune abilities.Just like Mosg's Frost rotation, this is pretty simple to implement such that it performs reliably in IS.

Disadvantage: No use of Plague Strike or Necrotic Strike, so it will do less DPS and no healing debuff is placed.

Approach #2

- Same as above, but use of priority system so that a small percentage of Unholy runes are used to cast Plague Strike instead of Scourge Strike.

You'd only want to do this every 20-21 seconds, ideally. I think this is really the tricky part, because if you are casting Plague Strike too often then you depriving yourself of DPS. Done poorly, your DPS might even beworse than Approach #1 where Plague Strike is ignored entirely.

I think it's tricky because Mosg's system is good for abilities where an ability's preference is to use every time when available ,or where the preference is 1:2 or 1:3 or even 1:4 in terms of frequency the ability is used, for plague strike I think the ratio is going to be something like 1:9 or 1:10. I'm uncertain whether Mosg's system can be pushed that far with reliable results and not ending up with plague strike being cast far more frequently than you'd like.

Approach #3

- Same as #1 above, but Necrotic Strike is inserted to use a significant portion of Unholy Runes. The whole point of Necrotic strike is the healing debuff, so you're going to want to be casting it more often than Plague Strike is cast in Approach #2. Yet, you still want to be casting Scourge Strike often. Just to put a number on things, we'll just say splitting the Unholy Runes 50/50 between Scourge Strike and Necrotic Strike is optimal, but that number is a just a wild guess.

- That sort of priority or weighting can be done in IS so it happens fairly reliably as well I think, just modifying Mosg's setup a tiny bit.

- The lingering question remains, even if this approach is possible, is it actually worth doing it from an efficacy stand point. I can't answer that question just yet.

Approach #4

- Same as #1 but with placement of both Plague Strike, Necrotic Strike in the rotation (as well as Scourge Strike).

- I'm real skeptical this could be done without substantially underutilizing Scourge Strike, but perhaps I'm wrong about that.

[Noids]

Scan through the first manifesto thread and somewhere towards the end Mosg quotes his unholy setup. Rather than just a simple priority setup, it is actually a priority setup of castsequence macros.

I haven't worried about using necrotic strike at all in my setup as I have found that even taking the healing debuff into account as 100% damage, scourge strike does more. On top of this, I haven't been able to find whether the healing debuff portion can crit or not, but if not, more reason again to SS instead.

So that covers unholy runes, now for frost and blood. For PvP I like to outbreak then chains of ice and pestilence. This will have your diseases up, spread them to any poor buggers in range and snare your first target ready for beating. Once I'm throuhg this initial sequence, I am hitting plague strike, festering strike and death coil. Festering is great because it hits hard and gives death runes which can then be used for more SS goodness. I have a castsequence for the runic power abilities which does 5 DCs, then DT, then gargoyle.

I tested it out on PTR and it was a nice setup. Didn't quite have the control of frost with regards to snares and roots were annoying, but there seemed to be masses of damage and all the pets running around added massively to the confusion. Getting onto live and with the subsequent, secondary nerf, it doesn't feel as good as frost.

Mosg's setup with hungering cold and single target dps is gold and something that unholy can't help to replicate. Good 5s teams have a combination of good healing, good targetting dps focus and good CC. This is CC without effort which is something that boxing teams have always lacked in PvP. So whilst unholy is fun with all the pets running around and not being snared, it doesn't measure up to frost for control.

I haven't noticed the HB nerf at all really and my single target burst is higher than what I was able to achieve with unholy anyway. Add the buffs that frost got of getting Chains of Ice root back (which I incorporate into my DG macro) and the free snares from desecration, I am finding frost even better than pre patch.

On top of this, my priest feels so much stronger with a big shield which negates any snares on me as well as giving a 60% sprint for 4 seconds. It now takes a good 30s for the priest to go down in arenas and then a further 12s of healing. This converts to a strong win ratio in the open maps and at least even in the others for me.

Btw I have got a list of timestamps for different topics for this latest video, just need to put them in order and post it.

[Noids]

Jumped on mmo today and see that death's advance has been nerfed to 75% max now anyway, so I really can't see a good argument to box unholy DKs over frost any more.

[outdrsyguy1]

I think the deaths advance is possibly the fasted nerf to an intended change i've seen! Bummer!

[Selz]

Well guys

Is it just me missing some new movies about this, possible some arena action bg action and so on, mosg2 where are you !! its been weeks since u made something new =) i miss seeing new tings.

All in all I tried unholy once and i honestly dont like it, that spec does not have the burst potential at all. and the unholy frenzy which gives u an extra dmg source you dont really want to use that on urself but rather on ur healer to make him immune to CC, but still, with the 12% dmg to frost im deffently going to stay frost cuz my nuke just got insane :)

If you guys have issues with the root / nova try play with a priest, he neerly got as much survial as a paladin has now, and best part is, no mage is ever gonna last more than 3 sec ull deathgrip then strangulate him which forces him to iceblock because he cant blink, prist mass disspel and thats it, ur not even gonna see ring of frost, also.. even if you get it, priest just massdisspel that also since u cant get into it again for the next 3 secounds, i mean a dream has come true for this setup..

why even bother with unholy :) stay frost for that burst potential Frost Strike gives.

[Selz]

How ever,,, when u all have tried unholy speck...


then try out blood speck with Dancing rune weapon plus necrotic strike

If you didnt know, Dancing rune weapon copies your attack meaning when u do necrotic strike once it does it twice actually. and yes it does give double debuff...

Just something to think about LooL

[BrothelMeister]

How ever,,, when u all have tried unholy speck...


then try out blood speck with Dancing rune weapon plus necrotic strike

If you didnt know, Dancing rune weapon copies your attack meaning when u do necrotic strike once it does it twice actually. and yes it does give double debuff...

Just something to think about LooL

WHOA!! If that is true, WOW!

I must test this out. Since you brought this up, does the Dancing rune weapon also proc desecration if you're specced into it?

[Selz]

WHOA!! If that is true, WOW!

I must test this out. Since you brought this up, does the Dancing rune weapon also proc desecration if you're specced into it?


YEPPP it does :D

[Multibocks]

LOL!!

Update: I am paying someone to get arena points for my DK, however I am blown away by this guy. He's an unholy pvp DK and no one can kill him. Well at the lower brackets. He solos two people at a time, since my guys get blown up.

[Ualaa]

A use for gold, for sure.
It is rather easy to come by for boxers.

In WotLK, I was tempted to buy weapons, via paying for rating.
Lots of people selling rating.

[Multibocks]

yeah I think this is my route until I get the gear to win my own 5s

[Ualaa]

You'll get there.
For melee, the weapons are a major boost along the way; that's a few weeks of Conquest points.

[TeamGrizzly]

I went with an extra step early.
That doesn't do anything, but won't advance for 4 seconds.
So when I'm killing crap mobs.
The ones that die in 2-3 seconds or even instantly from one attack.
Well, they don't have me waste the silence.
But any combat that lasts more then three moves...
And the silence starts.



Just checking. I know it is ok to send multiple key strokes with a single keypress since it is like spamming multiple keys at the same time. But is this addition of a mechanism to delay advancing for 4 secs legitimate? I am not using ISboxer but I guess could do something similiar using logitech macros with some delays incorporated but just wanna make sure this is not against the TOS.

Also can this be achieved with HKN?

TIA

[Ualaa]

There's nothing in the Terms of Service or EULA that says you cannot withold sending an action.
It is up to you on whether or not you want to use it.
This is true for a lot of the stuff that is extremely common on this site and the other boxing site too.



All of the GM Quotes, over all the years, have basically said: if everything that happens is a direct result of a key or mouse event, then you're ok.
If you can push something now, and have something happen later on that is not a result of something being pushed when the action occurs then that is botting.

Going by everything they have ever said to us, pushing a key and having it set to have nothing occur on that push, does not violate anything.

As always, use what you are comfortable with.



As an aside, there hasn't been a single GM quote anywhere that says it is ok to mouse broadcast.
So while we are likely ok with that, as a lot of people have been using it for some time now, use mouse broadcasting at your own risk.

Ditto for key remapping.
If you push a key, and it sends a different key to each window, that has never been okay'd.
It is ok to push "F" and have "F" go to every window, but there's no word on pushing "F" and sending "F", "Alt + F", and "J" to three windows.
So the entire two-step mapped keys, which people are running with both IS Boxer and HKN are not okay'd by any of the GM's.
Use them at your own risk.

Ditto for the entire FTL Assist Method.
You push the key, "F" for example.
Depending on the window you're in, it sends F+Alt, F+Ctrl, F+Shift, F+Alt+Ctrl etc.
However, you are not pushing Alt/Ctrl/Shift etc, you're only pushing "F".
So, while this has been around for years, it has never been okay'd.

Also the entire priority sequences for the Manifesto.
They have us push six buttons at once, all as the result of a single key push or release.
Blizzard specifically took Castrandom out of the game.
Yet our pseudo priority system essentially randomly clicks one of six things that is spammed.

Similarly Blizzard took Click Castsequences out, which has us mindlessly spam a single key.
And have a fairly intelligent DPS system result from that mindless spam.
They did not want mindless spam to result in an intelligent DPS result.
Yet that is exactly what we have, from mindless spam.
You can get that from IS Boxer and HKN.



Compared to getting around both Castrandom and the whole Click Castsequence Priority system for DPS, pressing a key and having it not send something to a window for a few seconds seems rather minor...

[Ualaa]

But is this addition of a mechanism to delay advancing for 4 secs legitimate? I am not using ISboxer but I guess could do something similiar using logitech macros with some delays incorporated but just wanna make sure this is not against the TOS.

Ignoring any number of key presses for four seconds is not the same as pressing something now, and without any further input having something occur in four seconds.

If you were to use Profiler software for a Logitech Keyboard, to take advantage of delays, that most definitely is botting and will result in a ban eventually.

[Negativ1337]

List of interesting things you can or can't copy:

Feel free to add any spells I missed you feel should be added. All purge, dispel and cleanse etc spells can be copied and are not listed.

The following applies to Dark Simulacrum:

-To copy a spell it REQUIRES mana to be spent.
-Physical abilities (even though they cost mana) cannot be copied (like Crusader Strike).
-You cannot copy pet summons (you can, however, copy pet abilities, same rules apply).
-Target's spell power will be copied (unsure now)
-Target's talents will NOT be copied
-Target's glyphs will NOT be copied
-Spell will be INSTANT cast, no matter what spell it is.
-Channeled spells will have to be channeled, making them poor choices for Dark Sim (although it's quite fun to copy Mind Control or Seduce for instance).
-The copied spell CAN be grounded, Dark Sim itself CANNOT.
-Dark Sim is applicable through immunities.
-Healing and Damage spells are generally very poor choices for Dark Sim, and are mostly not listed below.
-Upon using a copied spell, the cooldown on that spell will ALSO be copied (obviously only matters for spells with cooldown above 1 min.
-You can Dark Sim a Dark Simmed spell (for instance: a dk copied my druid's cyclone, druid called it out, and I copied the dk's cyclone).

:druid:
Things that work:
-Cyclone
-Entangling Roots
-Solar Beam
-Star Fall
-Typhoon
-Starsurge
Things that won't work:
-Shapeshifts
-Spells and attacks requiring shapeshifts.
-Barkskin
-Nature's Grasp
-Wild Mushroom
Things that are more or less useless:
-Swiftmend (can only be used if you have druid hots on yourself, and it will remove the hot)
-Faerie Fire

:mage:
Things that work:
-Polymorph
-Mirror Images (not really gamebreaking, but still fun)
-Dragon's Breath
-Pyroblast
-Living Bomb
-Counterspell
-Time Warp
-Ring of Frost
-Ice Block
-Blink
-Frost Nova
-Cone of Cold
-Mana Shield
-Ice Barrier
-Invisibility
-Deep freeze (you can copy this, but target will still need to be frozen, a hunter's freezing trap OR hungering cold both counts as frozen btw, so you can use that)
Things that won't work:
Things that are more or less useless:
-Icy Veins
-Slow Fall
-Deep Freeze (if you are not frost and don't have mage/hunter on team)
-Armors, Ice/Mage/Molten (unlikely this will ever be rebuffed in arena though, and they only last 1 min)

:paladin:
Things that work:
-Seals (yes you can copy this, only lasts 1 min, however)
-Hammer of Justice
-Divine Shield
-Divine Protection
-Hand of Protection
-Hand of Freedom (obviously debatable how "gamebreaking" that is)
-Avenging Wrath (aka wings)
-Holy Wrath
Things that won't work:
-Avenger's Shield (counts as a physical ability)
-Beacon of Light.
-Hammer of Wrath
-Any spell costing Holy Power (remember: requires mana to be spent)
Things that are more or less useless:
-Consecration

:priest:
Things that work:
-Pain Suppression
-Power Word: Barrier
-Power Word: Shield
-Divine Hymn
-Mass Dispel
-Fear Ward
-Psychic Scream
-Psychic Horror
-Mana Burn
-Silence
-Mind Control
-Leap of Faith (aka Life Grip)
-Guardian Spirit (unlikely you'll copy this in a proper pvp situation unless they make holy viable though)
Things that won't work:
Things that are more or less useless:
-Levitate
-Inner Fire/Inner Will (also only lasts 1 min)

:shaman:
Things that work:
-Heroism/Bloodlust
-Hex
-Earthshield
Things that won't work:
-Thunderstorm
-Ghost Wolf
-Feral Spirits
-Totems
Things that are more or less useless:
-Spiritwalker's Grace

:warlock:
Things that work:
-Fear
-Death Coil
-Shadowfury
-Howl of Terror
-Chaos Bolt
-Infernal :cool:
-Unstable Affliction
-Succubus' Seduction
-Felhunter's Spell Lock
-Haunt (will increase the damage of your own dots)
Things that won't work:
-Drain Mana
Things that are more or less useless:
-Shadow Ward
-Drain Life
-Demon Soul
-Demonic Empowerment
-Hellfire
-Hand of Guldan (good spell in itself, but we don't copy talents, so it's crap for us)
-Armors, Fel etc (unlikely this will ever be rebuffed in arena though, and they only last 1 min)
-Soul Link (doesn't work on ghoul)
-Spells that requires Metamorphosis cannot be cast and just wastes Dark Sim.
-Demonic Portal (requires the circle, QQ)

Thanks to http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/177503-the-dark-simulacrum-list/

It might be a good idea to macro one Frost Strike, and put /cancelaura Ice Block in it. In case you steal it, and have to click it off.

Mosg, any chance you can link me the video where you explain your dps rotation key? I never seen it and i have a hard time finding it :P

[Multibocks]

Is it worth it to buy Arena weapons when you already have 346 pve weapons? I mean as your first purchase?

[BrothelMeister]

What do you mean by "choice" for dark sim. If you cast it on your opponent, you dont get to choose what they cast next.

[Negativ1337]

I mean: These spells are useful and not useful if you copy these spells. And you have a list of spells that can BE copied.

[dancook]

But is this addition of a mechanism to delay advancing for 4 secs legitimate?

It's the same as tapping a key for 4 seconds, toggling the key's action, then tapping it for 4 seconds.. etc..

I can't see anything immediately wrong with this...

[zenga]

Hybrids right now are blowing most of the pure dps out of the water post 4.0.6, except hunter.

Shadow Priest, Balance Druid, Elemental shaman, Retribution Paladin, Fury Warrior, all above mage warlock on single target dummy dps.

That is not really correct, both parts of your statements actually.

[remanz]

i have my prove

http://stateofdps.com/

look at overall dps + BH boss.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Baradin_Hold/Argaloth/10N/dps/

where is yours.

Fury just got a nerf. But Shadow Priest and Balance Druid are dominating.

[remanz]

I look through the updates. Looks like shadow priest got a nerf 10% flat. and Moonkin by 5% just now. So those two are backdown to earth. If that's what you are referring to, then yes, my statement would not apply now. The statement was made post 4.0.6 before those nerfs.

[ebony]

It's the same as tapping a key for 4 seconds, toggling the key's action, then tapping it for 4 seconds.. etc..

I can't see anything immediately wrong with this...


nope becouse the one in isboxer is spaming that key till it moves over

EG: you setup a round robbin to not go to next window to 2 secs in this we are spaming key 1 as the dps on robin


Charname KeyPress in wow

Char A 111111111PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
NEXT STEP!
Char B PPPPPPPPP111111111PPPPPPPPP
NEXT STEP!
Char C PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP1111111111

<< Ingame Sees no automation here MOVES ON! >>

And your setting up
Char A 1
STOP WAIT 2secs!
Char B alt+1
STOP WAIT 2secs!
Char C ctrl+1

You might get away with that Not sure though. but useing mods might work let u fall though.


NOT OK!!
Char A /cast frost nova
Wait! 2sec
CharA /cast blink
Wait 2 sec
CharA Press WspaceAAAAW


This is what blizzard call automation Many things happon under one key press,

[zenga]

i have my prove

http://stateofdps.com/

look at overall dps + BH boss.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Baradin_Hold/Argaloth/10N/dps/

where is yours.

Fury just got a nerf. But Shadow Priest and Balance Druid are dominating.

Sites like that prove everything and nothing. If you want the state of dps in 25m, you should look at the people who are max geared in hc 25m mode because it's a sample of the top dps, meaning that normal mode samples have a heroic and normal gear mixture. On top not too many samples for the harder bosses are available. Either way, 25m heroic shows that destruction lock & fire mage are topping the charts. Shadow priest is very strong but was very strong prior to the patch as well.

Saying that all hybrids put locks & fire mages to shame is simply not true. Ret is ok on some fights, boomkin is strong. Fury is nowhere near top since patch. Same with elemental shaman, it's one of the worst performing specs at the moment in the game. I raid ele myself, and i'm listed on several top 200 parses on worldoflogs.com for elemental, and i'm often not even in recount top 10 for a bunch of encounters after the patch (where i used to be prior to it). Yet I have one of the higher performing % in the raid (i.e. dmg you should do to be in top 200 for your spec compared to what you did). I just went through our logs, and our raid seems to be very representative for the data on all 12 bosses (though nefarian we've only done on 10 man so far).

So why I said you were wrong was not about shadow priest & boomkin not being strong, but about the others you mentioned and about your destruction lock / fire mage statements.

[hannibal]

Anyone tried blood since the patch? Seems like more and more ppl are posting about having success as blood.

Some of it sounds very interesting. I think I'll start working on it tomorrow after I get my 5 wins.

[Noids]

Is it worth it to buy Arena weapons when you already have 346 pve weapons? I mean as your first purchase?

Yeah I'd still definitely get the weps first. It doesn't add much to your howling blast but it helps with melee damage and frost strike and it does add resilience to a slot where you have none.

This was actually my main priority when gearing up; get as much resilience as quickly as possible. So I got my 2 piece bonus ASAP then just replaced slots where I lacked resilience.

[Noids]

Anyone tried blood since the patch? Seems like more and more ppl are posting about having success as blood.

Some of it sounds very interesting. I think I'll start working on it tomorrow after I get my 5 wins.

I've tried it out since patch and it did receive a nice damage boost. Have smashed both HoO and Lost City in my first attempts at a heroic using 4 blood equipped in 352 level PvP gear with priest healing. My first kill of Rajh actually involved missing the first interrupt, having the priest die 15s into the fight and the DKs just hammering on with self healing and downing him.

On the bosses they are finishing with 7-9k each.

I am yet to try them in arenas at this stage. Mainly due to the frosties feeling so strong still I guess. The main issue would be staying on target without the snares you get from frost and without being on target, the self healing doesn't happen. Saying that, the burst should be good... Have hit 28k death strikes and blood strikes with trinkets up in PvE situations :P

[remanz]

Sites like that prove everything and nothing. If you want the state of dps in 25m, you should look at the people who are max geared in hc 25m mode because it's a sample of the top dps, meaning that normal mode samples have a heroic and normal gear mixture. On top not too many samples for the harder bosses are available. Either way, 25m heroic shows that destruction lock & fire mage are topping the charts. Shadow priest is very strong but was very strong prior to the patch as well.

Saying that all hybrids put locks & fire mages to shame is simply not true. Ret is ok on some fights, boomkin is strong. Fury is nowhere near top since patch. Same with elemental shaman, it's one of the worst performing specs at the moment in the game. I raid ele myself, and i'm listed on several top 200 parses on worldoflogs.com for elemental, and i'm often not even in recount top 10 for a bunch of encounters after the patch (where i used to be prior to it). Yet I have one of the higher performing % in the raid (i.e. dmg you should do to be in top 200 for your spec compared to what you did). I just went through our logs, and our raid seems to be very representative for the data on all 12 bosses (though nefarian we've only done on 10 man so far).

So why I said you were wrong was not about shadow priest & boomkin not being strong, but about the others you mentioned and about your destruction lock / fire mage statements.

I did said it was just single target dummy dps. Lock and mage are for cleaves and AOE. No way they top meter for single target when hunter and rogue are around. Especially mage, it is just not there.

anyway, hybrids are all getting normalized. so pures are back on top again, even for single.

[Emo?]

I have a question regarding the first dps key, i have it working etc but it seams like my characters dont get the "IWT" command as often as i whant them to do, when they dps a target they tend to run around in a very large cricle and sometimes they run off like 10-15 yards before i can se that the IWT command gets to them and they turn around and starts to try dps the target again.

Should it just be enought with me adding more IWT into the second step or will that destroy anything?

[ghonosyph]

add iwt to the second step as well, and spam your key more rapidly :)

[Emo?]

Well i have it set as in the video, with a IWT on the end of Step 2 and one IWT in the midle of Step1.

Im comparing to when i had IWT bound to each of my dps keys (aka IWT command was send about 3-5 times a second). So i whant my dks to stay close to the target, atm they are running around from it to far very often.

[Ualaa]

If you want them to stay on target, you have two general options.

My IWT, is not a simple keybind to all toons.
It is a mapped key that sends IWT to all members of my melee group.
And then I have another mapped key with two steps to enable/disable this key.
So I can toggle my "spam" IWT on and off.

I also have IWT for all toons, on its own key.

If my spam is disabled, I can push the single IWT to everyone...
And break the movement immediately on the healer/active toon.
That will move my DK's (any toon whose movement does not break the IWT movement) towards where the target was when I pushed the key.
They won't over run the target, nor adjust to a new position if it moves.

Similarly, without a toggle, but with a "spam" set up...
You could push the key once, and wait.
Once they're in melee range, and have stopped moving.
Then you spam the shit out of the key.
And since they can hit the target where they're standing... they won't need to move towards it.
So there will be no movement, until the target moves.

For PvE, I use the second method much more so than my toggle.
For PvP, I just spam like crazy... probably spamming 2.5 presses per second on average.
I also has IWT on press only, not on release.

With PvP and the toons circling the target like crazy.
I haven't found an appreciable difference on a target dummy, when comparing DPS stationary vs DPS circling like crazy.
Either is close enough to the other.
Plus in PvP, the mob/player will likely move, and if you're not spamming you won't stay with it/him/her.

[Emo?]

Well i tryed to set in a few extra IWT commands in my mapped spam key. Nothing changed but then i decided to not spam that fast and gues what happened. When i swaped back to the normal version and me dooing less spam, aka 2 click /second instead of 4-5 click /second (have keybind on mouse5 so can spam fast) my characters are now really close to the target all the time.

I think what was my problem was that i spamed the button TO fast so wow/isboxer whatever was the leak, crippled itself and made them not to react on every keypress.

[Cyrberus]

To stop my toons from running around the target, i've got "move forward" bound to F1 on all toons. I simply press that button when i want them to stop running around.

[Emo?]

Well i like it when my characters run around the target and since im running with 4 melee i can just pop "follow" keybind at the same time as i press the DPS keybind for like 1-2 seconds and all characters will stand still at the target that i am attacking.

[Ualaa]

If you press it once, or a few times until they start to move to the target...
And then wait, but don't spam.

Once they reach the target and are stationary, you can spam and they won't circle about the target.
Granted this is much more useful for PvE vs stationary mobs, than PvP vs mobile opponents.

[Ualaa]

Given full honor gear, what would you upgrade second with Conquest Points?

I'll be doing Conquest 2 Handers, on the DK's this week.
And the off-hand Shield on the Paladin.

At which point, they'll have full Honor gear in every slot.
No honor upgrades remain.
But Conquest upgrades, a plenty.

[Emo?]

After that its pritty much the same upgrade/point spend. So its more if u whant for looks or have it hidden. I pref. To buy the 2200 cost things first, aka head and chest first cause they cant drop in BH. :)

[Feehza]

What about to set another action on "IWT-Button-Release" with "do not advance to next step after [2] seconds" and then an action call your follow-button? So after you dont press your DPS-Key for 2 seconds your toons come back to you.

[Emo?]

That actually sounds really smart, but i think im to used with the follow spam now so id prob already be spamming it before the function would work :P

[Toned]

I just have a key to pass keypress back to just the DK's. That way if I'm capping a flag with the priest it doesn't interrupt the cap. I also spam follow like crazy it's a habit.

[Ualaa]

I have IWT built into my DPS spam keys.
Specifically, a mapped key for IWT to the melee group, which all my DK's are in but the Healer is not.

I have another IWT key, this one with a hotkey, that goes to all toons.

And then a toggle key (which honestly isn't used nearly as much as I thought it would be).
This enables and disables the melee IWT mapped key.
So I can spam my DPS keys like crazy, and either have the melee spam IWT or the melee not receive IWT.

[Emo?]

I have thought about a thing, im specced 3/31/7 atm on my 4x dks with 1 pt in Annihilation etc. I have the same attack setup as u Mosg2 with 2 howling blasts etc. But it hit me that i rarley use Obliterate, only time i use it is when i do my Hungering cold spam. Would it be better to swap out a howling blast in my rotation for a Obliterate or is it better to have the unholy runes only for Necrotic strike?

[Ualaa]

I have three rotations set up, but basically only use two.
They are all priority sequences.

My Obliterate is not set up at all like Mosg2's.
It is a straight priority sequence, with Hungering Cold manually controlled on its own key.
And when I spam the OBL sequence key, everyone does the single target sequence.

They function the same as Mosg2's method.
More keys for the abilities you want to fire off the most often.

HB: (On "spam 1")
HB > FS > NS > BS

OBL: (On "spam 2")
OBL > BS > FS

I have a key for Outbreak to place diseases on my target, before the Obliterate sequence, as that increases Obliterate damage.
Swarms of hordies fall to this, if they're too much for me to heal through.
If I can heal through their DPS, the HB rotation is AoE damage and will kill them faster.

Obliterate seems to hit like a truck on low armor/stunned targets.
HB seems to be better against high armor targets, the HB component might be a spell that bypasses armor?

[GS4Clagg]

I was just wondering if there was somewhere else I can see this, as it's not opening up for me. It just takes me to the same page. I was also curious if the builds/rotations in this and Ualaa's dk guides were current with 4.3. I just restarted my dk's and have been trying to find some good info.

Thank you all
Gears and brothers on Ysera server.

[Ualaa]

This guide was current for 4.1 content: http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?t=37658

I believe DK's no longer need to use Blood Strike at all, with the Blood Rune being a Death Rune all the time.
So you can effectively take the mapped keys that call Blood Strike out of the spammed set of hotkeys.
And take the spells off of the DK's bars in the game.

In a fairly recent DK video, I saw a set of DK's throwing Death Coil instead of Frost Strike.
Not sure if that was DC instead of FS, or if DC and FS are both called by the spam keys so that if they're outside of melee range, you still have a runic power dump.

I'd imagine talent spec, glyphs, enchants and gems would be the same priority.



The Mosg2 videos won't work, because they were hosted on Justin.tv, which doesn't seem to have his videos any longer.

You could try searching YouTube for them, although not sure if they'd be there.

My guide was essentially my personal setup in detail.
Which was very heavily based off of the Mosg2 video.
Negative1337's was similar, but not exactly the same; likely another interpretation of the Mosg2's guide.

[Emo?]

Reason im using DC aswell is that its in the end of the spam key. My Dks will only cast the Deathcoil IF: I dont have any runes/not in range for melee/ if i got enough runic power.

I think it works quite good togeather with Howling when im chasing some1 for some extra preasure.

[Kris1234]

is it just me or do these videos no longer work? :(

[MiRai]

is it just me or do these videos no longer work? :(
They no longer work.

[Kris1234]

They no longer work.

:( In that case, does anyone have the Isboxer setup of this?

[olsondw]

Here you go: http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/37658-My-4x-Frost-DK-Paladin-Setup-Based-on-DK-Manifesto

[Kris1234]

Here you go: http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/37658-My-4x-Frost-DK-Paladin-Setup-Based-on-DK-Manifesto

ah good find, thanks