How is AV weekend treating you?

[Ualaa]

Gearing up the Ferals in AV

Starting gear, the crafted rare (blue) pvp set:
- 105,913 HP's (332 avg iLV)
- 3331 Agility & 4760 Stamina
- 9468 AC, 1327 Resilience, 21.58% Dodge.
- 2.96% Hit, 3.26% Haste, 38.61% Crit, 4 Expertise Rating, 13.38 Mastery.

Ending stats:
- 109,147 HP's (341 avg iLV)
- 3,436 Agility & 4,991 Stamina
- 9627 AC, 2579 Resilience, 21.93% Dodge.
- 1.67% Hit, 4.01% Haste, 38.88% Crit, 4 Expertise Rating, 13.24 Mastery.


Overall Games (Fri Jan 14th - Mon Jan 18th, 27.5 Hours Played)
24 Wins, 79 Losses, 103 Games Played.




Friday (Jan 14th)
08 Wins, 27 Losses, 35 Games Played, Approximately 7.5 hours of game time... (Alliance Whirlwind rocks!)

Added:
- Bloodthirsty Gladiator's Necklace of Prowess (1,250 Honor)
- Bloodthirsty Gladiator's Medallion of Tenacity (1,650 Honor)
- Bloodthirsty Gladiator's Relic of Triumph (700 Honor)
- ~700 Honor towards the next piece.

Concentrating on purchases for slots that have 0 Resilience first, before upgrading slots that already have Resilience.

New Stats:
- 111,639 HP's (338 avg iLV)
- 3411 Agility & 5169 Stamina
- 9468 AC, 1814 Resilience, 21.85% Dodge.
- 2.87% Hit, 2.66% Haste, 38.90% Crit, 4 Expertise Rating, 12.11 Mastery.



Saturday (Jan 15th)
01 Wins, 04 Losses, 05 Games Played, Approximately 2 hours of game time.
Got some honor but not enough for the next piece, even with the 700 I had saved.

I normally love my Dungeons & Dragons sessions, but kind of sucks to have an all day thing on AV weekend Saturday.
Still Sunday and Monday will be a lot of games.



Sunday (Jan 16th)
09 Wins, 25 Losses, 34 Games Played, Approximately 8 hours of game time.

Added:
- Bloodthirsty Gladiator's Insignia of Conquest (1,650 Honor)
- Bloodthirsty Gladiator's Dragonhide Helm (2,200 Honor)



Monday (Jan 17th)
06 Wins, 23 Losses, 29 Games Played, Approximately 10 hours of game time.... tons of Horde Turtles...

Added:
- Bloodthirsty Gladiator's Dragonhide Gloves (1,650 Honor)
- Bloodthirsty Gladiator's Dragonhide Legguards (2,200 Honor)

Will go a little beyond the AV Weekend for the legs, very close but not quite there yet.
Won't stop until I have them, however.



Revised Stats

[karuga87]

going great atm must be about a 80% win rate so the AV's treating the alliance just fine, im getting kitted out in no time this weekend

[Littleburst]

I'd say get 2 pieces of bloodthirsty for the 400 resi bonus.

I played 1 and lost it on the shams @ lvl 81. Endless HKfarm, quite amusing, but horde failed quite hard. Also One slave is honor capped, but you need to be 85 to be able to buy 85 gear :/

[ebony]

level 65-70 all good lost about 50% of games had some close calls and some great games.

just got

http://www.wowhead.com/achievement=873

Fire is so fun players just go boom!

[Vociferate]

Fuck I was doing great. I played 17 games, and lost only once. I leveled from 71-75 in about 8 hours. Was smooth sailing for me.

Now to see how I do in the 75-79 bracket. That's where it will be interesting.

[zenga]

Very frustrating ...
No clue how many games I've played, but a rough gamble is 20% win vs 80% loss. It feels like that at least. Got the trinket (+300 res) first, then the shoulders, legs, and chest. Sitting at 2k res now. I used to have a win ratio of over 70% in AV, from over 1k battles played. Never seen the horde performing like this in over a year. A see a few reasons:

- the amount of complete utter morons, really have no words for them ... they kill a bg with their stupidity in chat. I never see them in the many bg's I play every day on my main shaman. Seems like AV holiday weekend attracts them. The RLOL, HAHAH, NOOB, PWN, L33T, anal, etc all the time. It's unbelievable. I don't know what it is with these guys, but I can't recall anyone who was behaving like this when I was young. There should be a law that would forbid them to reproduce themselves. If there was a vote possible in bg, they'd be kicked every single time. Thinking about it ... those are the guys that gonna have to work to pay my pension in the future. Guess I'll need to rob a couple of banks to be save.

- the map that favors the alliance in such a way that it's no longer fun. If 2 equals groups go to the respective bases, horde bunkers are capped 30s before DB bunkers. If not more. They can basically skip every mob in our base and cap 2 bunkers. We get a shitload of annoying birds, rams, and little dwarves on our way once past icewing bunkers. They dismount u if you are unlucky, and you basically stay in combat till the bridge. No fucking clue why, and then the archers start to nuke u. And you haven't killed the dude before the left DB bunker. On normal AV's, this doesn't play a big role, but the way the Call tA AV's are played it's decisive. I've lost at least 15 AV's where we have 3-500k HP left on boss this weekend.

- Tol barad screwed the normal way of getting gear. Some players where geared in a few days, from spending less than an hour in total. Those players run around in gear they would never have. But that goes for both sides.

Best one just happened while I wanted to reply to this as my queue just popped. This more or less tells everything about my AV weekend.

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/7238/wowscrnshot011611044316.jpg

[Kromtor]

i miss the old days when my rets would be top on healing done from divine storm spam
that being said, cranked out a shitload of honor this weekend and hated every minute of it

[valkry]

Don' complain about the AV map favouring Alliance, there have already been a few reviews by neutral parties claiming it favoured horde. And I saw balinda 3 manned the other week. Galv shits on her for dmg output and reset capabilities.

The FW keep has it's own npcs that pat around, and they can be avoided in the same way that horde can take the east path then jump back over the ridge near SP GY. THEN, you have the FW base GY, far from the entrance to the bosses room. This makes it an easy target for stealth recaps cos all the alliance are sitting on the retard hill waiting for the "ALL IN" command, whereas horde all sit outside Vann's room, but that is right on top of the flag.

[valkry]

Also, just from that screenie I can see a ally rogue has 4 tower defends. 1 player CAN turn the tide of the battle, especially if they spend most of the game defending points which need to be destroyed to take on the last boss.

[Kicksome]

I've had a rough AV weekend. I got a lot of gear, but we lost a lot. Horde was just more organized. Tons of alliance bots, and clueless players.

I think since alliance has instant q's people on alliance are a LOT more apt to not try very hard and just let them win if we fall behind.

When you wait 20 minutes, you try a LOT harder to win the BGs.

It's been a lot of fun though, had some awesome games. learned how to play my 4x dk's and holy pally a whole lot better.

I got to play vs some mutliboxing shamans and locks, locks, were brutal! Hellfire just chewed me up.

[zenga]

Don' complain about the AV map favouring Alliance, there have already been a few reviews by neutral parties claiming it favoured horde. And I saw balinda 3 manned the other week. Galv shits on her for dmg output and reset capabilities.

If those parties claim that then they are simply wrong. Do the test yourself if you don't believe me :) Map favors the alliance by 15-20 seconds to cap other sides base bunker, usually more. Just cause alliance has less obstacles in it's way. My point was the reaching the last 2 bunkers, not galv / linda; cause the moment when you kill those seems to be less decisive this weekend.

And when you cap these bunkers is key for the outcome, i.e. when you can start to kill the boss. That might not be true for whatever reason in your AV's, it is true in all the ones i play. And I mentioned it as a reason for the many losses last weekend.

[Ualaa]

I've found three general types of AV's, at 85th.


Type A, both sides rush.
In these kinds of games, the horde is winning all of them.
But they are engaging the last guy without waiting on any of the bunkers to burn.
The alliance waits for two towers to burn as they are short on Tanks and/or Healers, and loses the rush game.
Win or lose, this is by far better honor (even five losses per hour) than either side winning the type B/C game 1.5 times per hour.


Type B...
Horde defend Galv, in heavy numbers they take back IB Tower, Tower Point and IB Graveyard, then take Balinda and go on offense.
In this kind of a game, 90% of the alliance offense ends up on Defense.
The horde win 95% of these, getting around 250 honor for the win in 45 mins to an hour, which is half what I get per hour when we lose five matches per hour and it is less that half the honor they get when they win five per hour.
Alliance trying to wipe the horde at Balinda ends up doing the same thing; horde still win these games, but they're long drawn out and low honor.


Type C.... Not a rush game, but the alliance offense is not wiped at Galv... usually because the horde don't defend him, not because the Defense was taken out.
In this game, both sides recap the towers, there's enough defense to reset the bosses or whatever.
Not sure how the alliance Defense keeps the horde non-rush from winning, but these are mostly alliance wins, but again like the Type B game, a long drawn out game.
Much better honor to lose five times per hour, than to win one of these.


Have not seen the Type D yet at 85th.
At 80th, all the games were like this.
Specifically 10 min games, but alliance winning 95% of them.


So far for my tactics.
a) Ensure we cap Snowfall, for a mid field graveyard.
b) Assist on Galv, if there is no defense. If there is, take the IB graveyard, so dead horde don't rez mid field... which usually means I eventually die when 20+ horde from Galv come for the graveyard IBT and TP.
c) If the horde did not defend Galv, then either hold IBT until it burns or backcap Stonehearth Bunker.. With melee toons... Berserk at the top of a tower in the flag room is extremely successful. The Bunker defense (recapping) is so-so, with IWT and the big circle around the edge. I basically Charge/Ravage - auto killing one horde of any class/spec... and then if they chase me down to the ramp/flat area do great, but suck with toons running off of the edge if they fight on the outside part of the donut up top.... Kind of odd, in how as casters the Bunkers were easier to take/defend as a boxer, while the Towers were harder.

[ebony]

the worse AV i done so far this weekend is 5 players doing nothing in AV just killing NPC at the start whe we said report him he was like am here playing blackops f*ck you all and said am botting NPC (wolfs) so you can not report me lol look at the map i seen many of there new Bots just joining AV and then framing Mines/wolfs/rams any npc tht die fast and to keep them in combat.

[zenga]

Also, just from that screenie I can see a ally rogue has 4 tower defends. 1 player CAN turn the tide of the battle, especially if they spend most of the game defending points which need to be destroyed to take on the last boss.

That screenie was a wink to the 'losing by 100k hp' Which is 1-2 seconds. And yeah stealth players can make a difference, nothing new there :)

[Ualaa]

Incidentally, was reported AFK in one AV out of the 40 I have now played.
Was easy to click the AV Trinket, to hearth to defense which cancelled the debuff... and to then stay in combat on defense.

And I got to test out the new macro, which works perfectly.
Had several people complain about being reported AFK; I said something like, "Yeah I hate idiots that report me, when I am actively playing..."
AFK reports everyone in the BG, except those from my server.
Thanks for the macro.


/run for i=1,GetNumRaidMembers()-1 do local unit = "raid"..i local name,realm = UnitName(unit) if(realm) then ReportPlayerIsPVPAFK(name.."-"..realm) end end

[valkry]

If those parties claim that then they are simply wrong. Do the test yourself if you don't believe me :) Map favors the alliance by 15-20 seconds to cap other sides base bunker, usually more. Just cause alliance has less obstacles in it's way. My point was the reaching the last 2 bunkers, not galv / linda; cause the moment when you kill those seems to be less decisive this weekend.

And when you cap these bunkers is key for the outcome, i.e. when you can start to kill the boss. That might not be true for whatever reason in your AV's, it is true in all the ones i play. And I mentioned it as a reason for the many losses last weekend.
Read my second post. I know that you were trying to show that you lost by only a few seconds, but did you realise you would have been able to start a few minutes earlier had those bunkers not been recapped?

And I don't believe you about the time difference. We did zerg runs back at lvl 80, crusader aura, less than the time for heroism to run out to kill drek, yet still lost.

Do you remember when the horde cave got moved back on the map cos it was too close to the alliance base? Because I do. Oh HOW RICH it is to hear horde complain that Alliance is closer.

[daanji]

I did my first AV weekend to power level my new team. They are now Level 77.5 and got about 1.5 levels from AV.

It is a bit faster than instance grinding, but not by much. I play on Firetree, Horde side and we tend to lose most games.

Win rate was probably 30% or less.


BIG TIP: For those using AV to leveling new 5 mans, you can buy Cataclysm Level 77-79 Green and Blues from the Auction House to outfit your team. The item levels are around 274 - 306, which is better than ICC gear. It is killer on a Level 77 and you'll one-shot toons with WOTLK greens.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Ally is closer to Galv then Hord is to Bal thats for sure.

It seems Horde NPC's in the base just don't do anything, the run right by the lower bunch and once past the two towers there is none to hassel them. And of course Horde towers being close together is much easy compare to the last two ally towers. Gee and the bridge is a 100percent sure choke point. You have multiple ways to get to the gates of the horde base but only one viable route to get to the bridge. Thats why we can't avoid the birds and junk like they can.


My big AV weekend: Wainting for my last 10 ebay $30 cata to get to me and waiting for IsBoxer 38 (and round robin) before I start programing all my macros again ..... Got mining to 525 though, saving a lot on pytirte bars now.

[icey]

I got my Death Knights from 67-73, and the weekend aint over yet so I'm guessing I might get to level 75.. :D

Win rate was about 50-70% (early in the day it was up to 100%), and I felt like I did my duty by recapping Icewing Bunker and Stonehearth bunker, and capping the towers IBT and TP. And tried a rush technic that failed when horde was in defense mod. Ran down to Frostwolf capped the 2 GYs, my brother capping 1 tower and i capping the other tower. Got us a few wins.

I met Ebony's mages in 1 AV. So if your wondering.. I'm the 3 dks Facerollar :o

Overall got about 4k honor from 67-73. At 70 i used 1150 on brutal gear, now I'm just saving to 85.

Allready started to buy gear for 77 of AH, got a few blues and a few greens.

Really good AV-weekend!

[valkry]

Ally is closer to Galv then Hord is to Bal thats for sure.

It seems Horde NPC's in the base just don't do anything, the run right by the lower bunch and once past the two towers there is none to hassel them. And of course Horde towers being close together is much easy compare to the last two ally towers. Gee and the bridge is a 100percent sure choke point. You have multiple ways to get to the gates of the horde base but only one viable route to get to the bridge. Thats why we can't avoid the birds and junk like they can.


My big AV weekend: Wainting for my last 10 ebay $30 cata to get to me and waiting for IsBoxer 38 (and round robin) before I start programing all my macros again ..... Got mining to 525 though, saving a lot on pytirte bars now.
There are 3 ways to get to the bridge. Next argument please. Also, don't gloss over the single ramp into the inner part of FW keep as a chokepoint either.

Seeing as you guys are all throwing out examples of how horde are so far away and blah blah, I'll add to the mix that it is much easier for horde to take SHB than ally to take IWB, due to SHB being out of the way off to the side of the map and distance from the GY compared to IWB. Galv is also a lot easier to defend than Balinda, with a higher ground advantage you can see easily what's coming yet the charging ally can only see whats at the lip of the hill.

I can admit ally have some advantages, but can you admit horde have some too?

[Toned]

Friday (Jan 14th)
08 Wins, 27 Losses, 35 Games Played, Approximately 7.5 hours of game time... (Alliance Whirlwind rocks!)


Saturday (Jan 15th)
01 Wins, 04 Losses, 05 Games Played, Approximately 2 hours of game time.


I wish I was horde on your battlegroup, However this is at 85 and our bgis about the same. Our lower brackets though alliance just slaughter the bajesus out of us.

[zenga]

There are 3 ways to get to the bridge. Next argument please. Also, don't gloss over the single ramp into the inner part of FW keep as a chokepoint either.

Seeing as you guys are all throwing out examples of how horde are so far away and blah blah, I'll add to the mix that it is much easier for horde to take SHB than ally to take IWB, due to SHB being out of the way off to the side of the map and distance from the GY compared to IWB. Galv is also a lot easier to defend than Balinda, with a higher ground advantage you can see easily what's coming yet the charging ally can only see whats at the lip of the hill.

I can admit ally have some advantages, but can you admit horde have some too?


Stop turning around mate. Initial point was that alliance can cap horde base bunkers faster than horde can cap alliance base bunkers, due to map & npcs,. A simple statement in a larger picture. You isolate that out of the context (called it whining), denied it and are now trolling the discussion again. It's pretty clear for everyone who reads this thread though.

[valkry]

Stop turning around mate. Initial point was that alliance can cap horde base bunkers faster than horde can cap alliance base bunkers, due to map & npcs,. A simple statement in a larger picture. You isolate that out of the context (called it whining), denied it and are now trolling the discussion again. It's pretty clear for everyone who reads this thread though.
To me, it's pretty clear you don't want to hear anything but agreement with your arguments. As I have said, I don't believe ally can cap towers faster than horde can cap bunkers, and I told you why. Blizzard even moved the horde cave more south on the map because they were closer to the Ally base than Ally were to the horde base. Your claim insinuates that they either didn't measure the times from the new position, or dilberately made horde further away.

So because the initial argument was about time to cap bunkers, I'm not allowed to put forward examples of where horde have an advantage? Even if the implication of me doing so slightly implies you may be correct in your original claim (althoguh I don't believe you, I won't know for sure until I get back to my wow comp and do a few test runs myself).

I find it funny you accuse me of isolating out of context. When racing to tag a bunker/tower is quite similar. It is one single part of destroying a tower/bunker. A statement half proven by your own screenshot and post, "And when you cap these bunkers is key for the outcome, i.e. when you can start to kill the boss." Defending a bunker/tower is part of capping it, and if your team doesn't re-cap, while the other one does, well, your 1k battles in AV should give you enough experience to know it gives you a disadvantage. I'm betting that rogue who defended 4 bunkers set you back a good couple of minutes.

In my opinion, AV is pretty even. There are different advantages and disadvantages for both sides. Even a horde hating player like me can see that. I can give you a whole list of ways horde have an advantage over us if you want. And refuse to listen to any grievances you have over our map position.

And don't try to pass off a discussion as trolling in order to try and discredit me. It's a classic deflection. And hypocritical as all you have done is make unsupported claims in this thread (show me proof ally is closer before you expect e to believe it), why can't I call that trolling?

[Kruschpakx4]

I queued with some guildies, 2x shaman boxer 1x dk boxer, 8-15 min queue time and 100% winratio ~10 games
our tactic is simple one boxer defending the horde base with a healer, 2 boxers rushing the dun baladar, with teamspeak and frostwolf insignia on each toon av is an easy prey

[zenga]

To me, it's pretty clear you don't want to hear anything but agreement with your arguments. As I have said, I don't believe ally can cap towers faster than horde can cap bunkers, and I told you why. Blizzard even moved the horde cave more south on the map because they were closer to the Ally base than Ally were to the horde base. Your claim insinuates that they either didn't measure the times from the new position, or dilberately made horde further away.

So because the initial argument was about time to cap bunkers, I'm not allowed to put forward examples of where horde have an advantage? Even if the implication of me doing so slightly implies you may be correct in your original claim (althoguh I don't believe you, I won't know for sure until I get back to my wow comp and do a few test runs myself).

I find it funny you accuse me of isolating out of context. When racing to tag a bunker/tower is quite similar. It is one single part of destroying a tower/bunker. A statement half proven by your own screenshot and post, "And when you cap these bunkers is key for the outcome, i.e. when you can start to kill the boss." Defending a bunker/tower is part of capping it, and if your team doesn't re-cap, while the other one does, well, your 1k battles in AV should give you enough experience to know it gives you a disadvantage. I'm betting that rogue who defended 4 bunkers set you back a good couple of minutes.

In my opinion, AV is pretty even. There are different advantages and disadvantages for both sides. Even a horde hating player like me can see that. I can give you a whole list of ways horde have an advantage over us if you want. And refuse to listen to any grievances you have over our map position.

And don't try to pass off a discussion as trolling in order to try and discredit me. It's a classic deflection. And hypocritical as all you have done is make unsupported claims in this thread (show me proof ally is closer before you expect e to believe it), why can't I call that trolling?

The screenshot has nothing to do with what I said about the map favoring the alliance. I comes at the end of my post, after my TB statement. I think that the layout of my post was clear enough to not link that screenie directly to my point 2. If you did link that directly to my point 2, then that was not the intention of the post. The more cause the screenie clearly shows that this was a 23 minute AV; where capping the bunkers straight away has less influence on the outcome. However most of the games I've played are zerg games. They typically go like this:

5+ bots / afk'rs (if not more)
a few players go to defend galv (to no avail as they are just a few)
15-20 go balinda
5 if not more just start to attack allies midfield
2 think defending our base is a good idea
a couple put the effort in capping Sh / IW bunker
count what is left to go north ... and the rams, birds slow them down a lot, keeping them in combat so they lose a lot of time before they can mount up again. And as soon as you are mounted up and at the bridge, archers start to nuke you. It's not the first time that one of my toons just drops dead as soon as I enter a bunker; if I didn't stop to heal them. If you take the left bunker, you have to battle an annoying npc first. Without a palladin / aura mastery, every time alliance caps bunkers 20-30 seconds earlier than horde can do.

The reason is stupid gameplay. But that's reality during AV weekend, we have to deal with more morons than usually. If you are in a team where 10 players go cap north bunkers, this is of course less of an issue. There is always going to be a few who escape the mobs.

Again: my statements where about my games, during CTA weekend. I haven't said anything about other elements in the battle favoring horde / alliance. Most of the games were very fast. And I could chose: go stand in a tower to defend, where it's very likely no one will cap DB bunkers; or go cap DB bunkers when none will recap towers or slow down alliance. Either way we are screwed.

In an AV where you have both decent offense and defense, the map is less important. Then it gives even an advantage to the horde i'd say (easier to force a turtle with capping SH gy, and just stand on the hill next to icewing bunker which is making alliance melee more or less useless).

Going to refrain from discussing semantics any longer. I'm not writing in my native language. Though my interpretation is clear, which I've stated.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Galv is also a lot easier to defend than Balinda, with a higher ground advantage you can see easily what's coming yet the charging ally can only see whats at the lip of the hill


And what advantage is that if you can't get to the defensive postition before ally is attacking Galv. If ally run stright to Galv horde cannot set up a defence.





5+ bots / afk'rs (if not more)
a few players go to defend galv (to no avail as they are just a few)
15-20 go balinda
5 if not more just start to attack allies midfield
2 think defending our base is a good idea
a couple put the effort in capping Sh / IW bunker
count what is left to go north ... and the rams, birds slow them down a lot, keeping them in combat so they lose a lot of time before they can mount up again. And as soon as you are mounted up and at the bridge, archers start to nuke you. It's not the first time that one of my toons just drops dead as soo


Ya so true.




In my opinion, AV is pretty even. There are different advantages and disadvantages for both sides. Even a horde hating player like me can see that. I can give you a whole list of ways horde have an advantage over us if you want. And refuse to listen to any grievances you have over our map position.





Well thats kinda true also, its not like horde cannot win maybe the map is like 55-45 favor ally. Far from unfair or insurrmountable.


Lets see this list of Horde advantages though, maybe something on it I can take advantage of lol ....

[Dorffo]

I did 40% of level 84 over the weekend, mostly pretty quick games - interested to see how things change at 85... expecting to get rolled for a few weeks while I gear out.

[Littleburst]

Why is everyone looking for excuses and whatnot. Alliance favored, bots w/e. It's not like it -really- matters. Horde expects to lose so doesn´t care from the beginning -> 1 lost AV.

My numbers for played/ lost for battlegrounds:
AV 231 played 152 won
AB 129 played 91 won
Eots 156 played 118 won
sota 81 played 46 won
WSG 99 played 72 won
IoC 49 played 38 won.
Everything well over 50%, exept for AV.

Just look at the amount of players actually contributing to an AV match. Hardly anyone is capping towers or defending them. Has nothing to do with mobs in Dun baldar or whatever.

[Tight]

@ Littleburst

I just meet you in AV about 40 min ago with my DKs and pala.. :D

first boxer i have seen in BGs in the grind 81 to 85.. :)

[Littleburst]

@ Littleburst

I just meet you in AV about 40 min ago with my DKs and pala.. :D

first boxer i have seen in BGs in the grind 81 to 85.. :)

/wave :D

You owned me :D I was like why the F am i dying so fast lol. I run 1,4k resi still. 30% reduc. Then after a fear or w/e it was I noticed it :P

Fail AV again for horde, so i was afking a bit on GY and got reported AFK :< Noticed it just to late, then main got ported out and afk'd out with slaves aswell. Must be blast to be alliance in AV weekend ;)

[Lokked]

First, I thought they brought all BattleGroups together for Battlegrounds - Battlegroups are only split up for Arena purposes.

Second, AV has been the same drama since they moved the Horde starting point back.

CHOKEPOINTS - Can only be used if people actually defend them

My Issues with AV
- Alliance Bridge - Archers can shoot you while on the bridge. Stepping off the bridge, both towers can hit you. The bridge is long as hell and narrow.
- Frostwolf Towers - Can the West Tower even shoot anyone approaching? Or is it just good for shooting people standing in front of Drek's fortress? It's archers die without firing a single arrow. And why the hell is there is little hut to shelter allies WITHIN shooting range of both towers? Archer Towers need a wall-hack.
- Allies can reach Galv maybe 10 seconds after defenders can.
- Horde Towers are much harder to navigate than Ally bunkers, and more difficult to defend in general. Ally Bunkers allow players to Range incoming attackers much easier then Horde Towers. Horde Towers - All you can do it sit at the flag and wait for them to come.
- The NPCs really do screw over non-stealthing classes. I've seen Horde base rushed with a small group and pick up no adds, except relief hut guards (which was intentional, to kill them). Getting past the elites, birds and soldiers along the path and bridge is retardedly hard. Getting dismounted on the bridge and trying to push forward results in death by archer (at least, pre-cap).

[Budkin]

If your horde just start at ib/choke kill the zerg then gate to base kill any that got buy then head back to the choke and just keep back capping. If your a horde multi boxer and your losing it's cause ya don't play d.I usally win 90% of the games i play.Watch my video look at the spots i fight at. The key to wining av is where you fight .Haven other boxer's join you helps allot. We have the better spots to d.Then ally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-Ye4d1ZIV8&feature=related

[Littleburst]

If your horde just start at ib/choke kill the zerg then gate to base kill any that got buy then head back to the choke and just keep back capping. If your a horde multi boxer and your losing it's cause ya don't play d.I usally win 90% of the games i play.Watch my video look at the spots i fight at. The key to wining av is where you fight .Haven other boxer's join you helps allot. We have the better spots to d.Then ally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-Ye4d1ZIV8&feature=related

I would love to believe that, but I have 1 major issue with this. I don't see you anywhere near a tower? The only thing I do in AV battles is run from one tower to another to defend it and recap it. There is no way that you can avoid that alliance cap towers by staying on the ground all the time. Any stealth can easily pass by. If you have usefull hordes who do recap towers, then that's a great thing. But that doesn't prove that HK farming at spot X or Y will win you a battle.

[Tight]

/wave :D

You owned me :D I was like why the F am i dying so fast lol. I run 1,4k resi still. 30% reduc. Then after a fear or w/e it was I noticed it :P

Fail AV again for horde, so i was afking a bit on GY and got reported AFK :< Noticed it just to late, then main got ported out and afk'd out with slaves aswell. Must be blast to be alliance in AV weekend ;)

ya it was crazy XP in there.. i have hardly done much pvp in wotlk and lvling in there during the weekend was a good choice i think.

the funny thing was in the alliance chat.. (Ohh no theres a shaman boxer at IB!) so i checked the bg rooster and was hoping you would come my way so i could at least /wave. however, it was a little bit of a hot zone so couldnt stop mashing buttons...

[Ualaa]

In the AV's so far...

Alliance does not know if the horde is in Galv until they go into the building.
So there is enough of a head start for the horde, that even if the alliance go straight to Galv with Crusader Aura the whole way, you have no clue if there are zero, six or twenty horde inside; going by this AV weekend, the average is 15 or so guarding Galv.
The horde have to have more than a 10 second advantage in reaching Galv.
Galv is also much tougher than Belinda... with ten alliance in Belinda's room, twenty horde will win almost every time... I like to Cyclone the tank and or healer, then Tranquility x5... then go kitty and kill whatever.
If the alliance has twenty in Galv's room and there are more than 5 horde defending him, enough of the attack is dead that the game becomes an auto turtle.

The alliance bridge is easily easier to defend than the Frostwolf area; there is a breech where you can run around and not even be hit by either of the towers.
That said, it works both ways; if I stealth to Frostwolf and cap RH and both towers.. I cannot guard a single choke point and know there are no horde behind me... if a horde manages to get the last alliance graveyard and both bunkers capped, they can stand on the bridge and know with 100% certainty that no one is sneaking past them.
When I was doing AV's with Shammies.. the alliance bridge was so fun to defend with staggered Thunderstorms; the horde don't have anything even close to that..

So the alliance has a huge advantage in holding their base, and a similar disadvantage at holding the final horde base once it has been assaulted, assuming the horde backcaps which is extremely common in these games.
And the horde has the initial advantage of Galv being much tougher than Belinda.

AV is still one of my more favorite BG's, probably a little behind AB.

[Budkin]

I would love to believe that, but I have 1 major issue with this. I don't see you anywhere near a tower? The only thing I do in AV battles is run from one tower to another to defend it and recap it. There is no way that you can avoid that alliance cap towers by staying on the ground all the time. Any stealth can easily pass by. If you have usefull hordes who do recap towers, then that's a great thing. But that doesn't prove that HK farming at spot X or Y will win you a battle.

You don't have to take my word for it lol check my statistics i have played 1540 avs and won 928 i have 269229 hks i do no a bit about pvping av .The part where i said backcap means taken the towers back .The vid don't show any tower stuff i play taurens and trying to get a vid of a tower fight lol .

[pinotnoir]

I have been having luck guarding the horde base between the towers. If I can keep alliance from rushing to a cap we have a shot at winning. Otherwise they just get there way faster than we can get to their towers. This team dinged 85 today so I am pretty squishy.

[zenga]

If your horde just start at ib/choke kill the zerg then gate to base kill any that got buy then head back to the choke and just keep back capping. If your a horde multi boxer and your losing it's cause ya don't play d.I usally win 90% of the games i play.Watch my video look at the spots i fight at. The key to wining av is where you fight .Haven other boxer's join you helps allot. We have the better spots to d.Then ally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-Ye4d1ZIV8&feature=related

This is cataclysm mate. Where 2-3 decent warriors / ferals can rip your team apart. Where 2 frostmages can keep you locked up with RoF. Where everyone has huge healthpools compared to spell damage. Where chain heal doesn't cut it anymore. Unless your team mates back you up, and unless you play against a complete bunch of tards, I don't see how 1 5x boxer can stop a 20 man team coming from galv.

On a sidenote, as the differences between galv & linda have been mentioned (I can actually solo linda with 5x ele shaman w/o tank and healer; just my earth elementals + grounding totem); how is the difference between drek & van?

Oh and btw, just played AV 3x tonight solo (after CTA is over), and was back to old business as usual. No rush to horde base, but more or less properly played AV with easy horde wins.

[Bollwerk]

FWIW, Alliance sucks hard at AV in my battlegroup. We seem to win about 1 or 2 out of 10. I hate it.

[Ualaa]

Met a fellow boxer in AV on Monday.

Khaall of Blackwater Raiders, and similar spelled names.
Boxing four or five shammies.

Destroyed me, as I was in a swarm of hordies fighting at a graveyard.
Then suddenly there are multiple Fire Elementals down.
Would have died irregardless, given the allies to hordies there...
But definitely sped up the process.

Khaall was in one other AV on that night, but we did not cross forces since.



I've found in AV...

The horde towers favor Ferals much more so than the alliance bunkers.
The bunkers with the donut ring around the top, rather suck as an area for IWT and follow.
Meanwhile, once you're up top in a tower, the tower room is superb as a melee team.

Totally the opposite from boxing Shammies...

[valkry]

And what advantage is that if you can't get to the defensive postition before ally is attacking Galv. If ally run stright to Galv horde cannot set up a defence.
I don't even want to say I don't mean to be insulting, because this is just plain wrong.


And horde have npcs which keep Ally in combat too. If you are dismounted near IWT you have to either run very far away or kill all the archers before you can re-mount. And there are the wolves between TP and FW. Have you played Ally in AV? Because we get the same problems a lot of the time too.

I'm seriously going to time the run from horde cave to ally base and ally cave to each base. I'll post the results when I do, but it's like a week away. Feel free to do the same, because until you do, your claim is just that, a claim. Same as mine.

[zenga]

This is a screenie I took last night (after call to arms was over). I play this toon solo, and have 3.7k res.
What I did was making sure I was the first to go north, trying to cap the DB bunkers asap. As you can see from my healthbar, I already had to dismount to heal myself a bit (popped spirit walker grace to minimize downtime).

Doesn't prove the map advantage of course, as there is no ally rushing to frost wolf keep (didn't look at map tbh). This is just to show in what kind of condition you can arrive :)

Oh and btw, most of the games I play, galv is down before balinda is down, provided no opponents are in the rooms to slow you down. Is that because that in a typical game more allies go to galv than horde goes to balinda or because you can start the fight faster ... I don't know.

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/800/wowscrnshot011811051340.jpg

[valkry]

This is a screenie I took last night (after call to arms was over). I play this toon solo, and have 3.7k res.
What I did was making sure I was the first to go north, trying to cap the DB bunkers asap. As you can see from my healthbar, I already had to dismount to heal myself a bit (popped spirit walker grace to minimize downtime).

Doesn't prove the map advantage of course, as there is no ally rushing to frost wolf keep (didn't look at map tbh). This is just to show in what kind of condition you can arrive :)

Oh and btw, most of the games I play, galv is down before balinda is down, provided no opponents are in the rooms to slow you down. Is that because that in a typical game more allies go to galv than horde goes to balinda or because you can start the fight faster ... I don't know.

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/800/wowscrnshot011811051340.jpg
Thank you for the screenie. As to your question, from my experience, I believe it is because galv is stop no.1 for ally whereas horde visit SHB first (then they hit the SHGY and IWB, with a small group going to Bal). As to why this happens, it's tradition imo. Ally always go down the west side of Balinda, even though the east side is quicker. I believe they do this so they don't come too close to the horde train that is heading straight past the west side of SHB. Horde and ally have taken these paths for years. The other reason could be a mind set. Ally can and do struggle to take down galv, he hits hard, whirl winds, mortal strike and fears the tank out of the room resetting the encounter. How do you guys feel about the difficulty of Bal? In your AVs do you notice most or only some horde go to Bal (for ally it is at least 30 inside galv's room)?

Imagine, if you will, one game where the alliance train heads due south from SH GY, shaving the west side of SHB. They would run straight into horde and it would be a train wreck. Almost guarenteeing a turtle. I've seen a lot of hate of turtles in my AV experience.

[zenga]

Reaching Galv has always seemed to be faster to me than reaching Balinda. When I go to galv's room, I can usually see alliance closing in (i.e. near the beginning of the little mountain). I have just about time to drop totems and pick a side before the first ones run in. Was always under the impression if I could see them, they should seen me too (whereas horde can't really see who went to balinda since the building blocks our view more or less). But it's not something I tested, more an impression and the fact that galv dies faster than balinda most of the time (about 10-15 seconds i'd say).

Balinda ain't hard, as said I can solo her with 5x elemental, with earth elementals and grounding totem on round robin. Wheres when I root a non tank in galvs room, galv will most likely finish that guy.

To answer your last question, besides some left overs, alliance troops have passed that point when we arrive.

[zenga]

Did some google-ing, from wowpedia.org (http://www.wowpedia.org)


"The Relief Hut is bit easier for the Alliance to capture than for the Horde to capture the Aid Station. The position of the Relief Hut makes it easier for the Alliance to avoid aggro on other Horde NPCs besides the flag guards. The Aid Station is more open and closer to nearby NPCs, which makes them within pull/train/pet range."



"Before the Horde entrance was moved south, it was common for the Horde to rush an offensive game with little to no defense and often win, the race. The movement of the entrance gave the Alliance an extra 10–20 seconds to maneuver uninterrupted on the field. so now the Horde barely gets in the door of Iceblood Garrison at the same time the Alliance shows up right outside it. At the same time, the offensive Horde players that went straight to Balinda have barely entered the field of strife and have another 10 seconds till they reach Stonehearth Outpost. Obviously, Horde will lose their Captain's buff faster than the Alliance if there is no defense at Iceblood. '



'Offensive players that go straight to the Aid station are also at a disadvantage compared to Alliance that go straight to the Relief Hut. The Horde players have to traverse the narrow road with higher chance of being interrupted by the Alliance than the Alliance do while they run through the open area of Frostwolf fields. The Alliance can travel much straighter and more efficient route from the Frostwolf field to the Relief Hut, while the Horde has to run to Stormpike Graveyard, on one side of the map, and then across the map again to get to the Aid Station.'


This more or less seconds what we've been saying throughout the topic.


In a summary for me:

- easier for alliance to reach balinda than for horde to reach galv
- balinda is (way) easier to kill than galv
- alliance can start 10s earlier on galv than horde can start on balinda
- if rushed and not meeting enemy players, alliance can cap forst w towers faster than horde can cap db towers, due to map and due to npcs.

[Shodokan]

Did some google-ing, from wowpedia.org (http://www.wowpedia.org)


"The Relief Hut is bit easier for the Alliance to capture than for the Horde to capture the Aid Station. The position of the Relief Hut makes it easier for the Alliance to avoid aggro on other Horde NPCs besides the flag guards. The Aid Station is more open and closer to nearby NPCs, which makes them within pull/train/pet range."



"Before the Horde entrance was moved south, it was common for the Horde to rush an offensive game with little to no defense and often win, the race. The movement of the entrance gave the Alliance an extra 10–20 seconds to maneuver uninterrupted on the field. so now the Horde barely gets in the door of Iceblood Garrison at the same time the Alliance shows up right outside it. At the same time, the offensive Horde players that went straight to Balinda have barely entered the field of strife and have another 10 seconds till they reach Stonehearth Outpost. Obviously, Horde will lose their Captain's buff faster than the Alliance if there is no defense at Iceblood. '



'Offensive players that go straight to the Aid station are also at a disadvantage compared to Alliance that go straight to the Relief Hut. The Horde players have to traverse the narrow road with higher chance of being interrupted by the Alliance than the Alliance do while they run through the open area of Frostwolf fields. The Alliance can travel much straighter and more efficient route from the Frostwolf field to the Relief Hut, while the Horde has to run to Stormpike Graveyard, on one side of the map, and then across the map again to get to the Aid Station.'


This more or less seconds what we've been saying throughout the topic.


In a summary for me:

- easier for alliance to reach balinda than for horde to reach galv
- balinda is (way) easier to kill than galv
- alliance can start 10s earlier on galv than horde can start on balinda
- if rushed and not meeting enemy players, alliance can cap forst w towers faster than horde can cap db towers, due to map and due to npcs.

Add in that 1/2 of the people in the game are bots/retards... and you have a good summary of AV. Oh and that alliance don't get Gys.

[pinotnoir]

When I played AV on alliance its so freaking easy to cap the horde base and towers. You run in and take very little damage. Then you run to the top of the towers and they have provided you with complete cover from the archers by standing inside the top as you cap the flag. On the other hand, horde trying to cap alliance base is a total bitch. Its not so bad to cap the graveyard but you take massive damage from the archers. Then if you try to cap the towers its a complete pain in the ass because the archers can shoot you as you try to cap the flag. I don't know if it still works but there was a very small space that would keep you from getting shot while capping the alliance towers. Its easier to just kill the archers, but that cost you time and causes lots of damage to you. Overall the battle ground favors alliance. I would ask that someone play both sides several times to get a true idea of how the bg leans towards alliance favor.

If both sides mount a defense then it doesn't matter. Most games are rush jobs and when that happens alliance has the edge.

[birdbleed]

FWIW, Alliance sucks hard at AV in my battlegroup. We seem to win about 1 or 2 out of 10. I hate it.

Same here. I lost like, 9 in a row Saturday and didn't even bother the rest of the weekend.

[Ualaa]

On Monday, I lost my first 15 games.
Was wondering if we would even get the extra honor for winning the Call to Arms once.

Horde can get to Galv before Alliance.
Alliance can get to Belinda before Horde.

Horde cannot get to the middle field bunkers before alliance.
Alliance cannot get to the middle field towers before horde.

If the horde wants to turtle the game, they can plus the choke point between IBGY and IBT.
Which might cost them IBT, but given how close their graveyard is to the battle, that is unlikely.
If the alliance wanted a turtle game, they have to defend the bridge; it might be the best choke on the map, but horde can bypass every other choke point that the alliance can get to first... which means the horde gets to burn two towers for a 150 resource advantage.
Then again, the horde tries for turtles in 75% of the games while the alliance never does.

I've never played this from a horde point of view.
But am toying with the idea of moving my 4x DK/Priest team to the horde side.

[Sam DeathWalker]

I don't care how it is sliced but about 100percent of the time I see the emote that galv is under attack prior to the emote that bal is under attack. I have run full speed (not CA though) to Gal many a time and Ally is already inside. But sometimes I have been able to set up inside and in those games ally does poorly. I suppose I am not running CA and ally is so that gets them there before me. Yet the emote is always Galv first.

But for sure Ally always sends more to Gal then we do to Bal for whatever reasons. They seem a lot more coodenated or set on a particualr statagy then horde is; none ever agree what to do. Clearly for whatever reasons they can do better with fewer on defense then we can.

Few horde will go to bunker first, I ususally take out the GY myself before heading to bal where all the other horde went as I know that taking the GY will stop ally from harrasing us at Bal.

Well whatever edge its far from insumountable; basically games are won by the side where all agree on a stratagy (no matter what it is) and none are afking or doing other stuffs.


The choke point between the towers (thats where the roads all meet right) is a good spot for me, I like playing there; I can always be fighting and doing dps which is the best way to help my team. And as the GY is near I can get back into action asap.

[Ualaa]

Pretty sure you're right.

Alliance can get to Galv before horde can get to Belinda.
Either can get to their own Captain before the other can get to the opposing Captain.

If twenty alliance attack Galv, and ten horde are inside, the alliance die 95% of the time.
If twenty horde attack Belinda, ten alliance (myself and five others) were not enough to survive always.

Galv is a lot tougher.

Not sure why, but at 60th and 70th, my AV record was 95% (as alliance).
While at 80th and 85th, it is closer to 20% (also as alliance).
On the same server, etc.

[zenga]

Same here ualaa. I remember when i started playing AV in 60 bracket followed by 70 bracket, I had a 10% win ratio? Still xp was good as I could skip collection quests. I was so surprised to see how that completely changed at lvl 80.

[Budkin]

This is cataclysm mate. Where 2-3 decent warriors / ferals can rip your team apart. Where 2 frostmages can keep you locked up with RoF. Where everyone has huge healthpools compared to spell damage. Where chain heal doesn't cut it anymore. Unless your team mates back you up, and unless you play against a complete bunch of tards, I don't see how 1 5x boxer can stop a 20 man team coming from galv.

On a sidenote, as the differences between galv & linda have been mentioned (I can actually solo linda with 5x ele shaman w/o tank and healer; just my earth elementals + grounding totem); how is the difference between drek & van?

Oh and btw, just played AV 3x tonight solo (after CTA is over), and was back to old business as usual. No rush to horde base, but more or less properly played AV with easy horde wins.

I'm a av pro some guys are arena pros i'm a av pro all i can tell you.Ya huge health pool.Ya like my main 135k unbuffed 3600 res .Many a slip between a cup and a lip.And i'm the guild leader of a pvp guild so i run with my guildys .But even if i don't run with them i start every fight at ib/choke, 10 to 50 unorganized ally are like shooting fish in a barrel for me.I guess ill make a new movie now that catas out .And yes we lost allot of are powers with cata but there is hope :D

[pinotnoir]

I did av just now and decided to try something different. I was going to defend Galv. I laughed when I just passed the choke by the gy and saw a flow of alliance streaming into Galvs room. By the time I got there it was packed and he was going down. This was without speed enhance mounted and moving right as the gate opened for horde. Anyone who thinks AV is balanced is smoking crack.

[Ualaa]

20% run speed (Crusader Aura) the whole way, for one side but not the other, will do that.

If you had the 20% speed boost, you would have arrived early enough to get any number of horde inside prior to any alliance being able to see anyone going in.

[valkry]

20% run speed (Crusader Aura) the whole way, for one side but not the other, will do that.

If you had the 20% speed boost, you would have arrived early enough to get any number of horde inside prior to any alliance being able to see anyone going in.
this

[ebony]

there olny one way to fix this setup a war game with two groups of horde or ally players noone can kill each over and its a rush to who can cap towers frist 100% the ally will do it... and fraps it :D 5v5 sould be ok for two boxer to test and tower cap olny,, unless you think you can solo the boss


i played both many times and ally will win on a rush they capped before we get to the top GY.. and that is not stoping of at blav thats just a rush to nouth

i would of tryed it but i not got any 85's so can not play war games

[Ualaa]

If combat is ignored, aside from the Captain and General.
And no tower/bunker is ever back capped.
Graveyards are irrelevant, since no one will die.
I don't really care who wins in this scenario, since it is not AV.

In 80% of my AV's, at least 15 alliance hit Galv.
In 70% of my AV's, 5-10 horde wipe them and the horde win the game.
In 10% of my AV's, there are no Galv defenders and either side can win the game.

If a significant portion of the alliance offense dies at Galv, the game is a forced turtle.
The same as those ultra rare games, where the alliance defends Belinda hard.
Either case, most of one sides O rez's on D, and it becomes a long slug fest game with poor honor for both sides.
And the horde wins almost all of these, if you can call half the honor per hour (for winning) that you would get even if you lost 3-4 times in the quick games you could have played.

In the remaining 20% of the games, alliance skips Galv.
Hits IBGY/IBT/TP hard.
If the horde were defending Galv, the world pvp style melee determines who wins the game.
If the horde were not defending Galv, the killing of Belinda puts them behind on time and alliance wins.
Or if Belinda/Galv are both skipped, it is a race which usually goes to the horde because they start without all towers/bunkers capped more frequently than alliance.

At least in my battlegroup.