Video Ram, 5 Boxing, 512vs1GB

[zanthor]

As I've posted before I'm considering an upgrade path for my current machine and have run into an issue earlier than I hoped. Basically my 7900gt is failing for the 3rd time since I got it. I'm going to be sending it in for warranty replacement, however I really don't feel the burning urge to sit around waiting on the card to be replaced using a lower end card in the meantime...

I'm considering:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150252

It's only a 512mb card instead of the 1gb Asus, however from what I'm seeing most benchmarks don't show a notable increase in the 1gb card... I've also been unable to find any benchmarks that are geared towards multiboxing ;) .... something about us being abnormal i'd guess.
Anyone have feedback on the amount of video ram? Would it be worth the extra $50 for a 1gb card?

Thanks,

[krum]

I run four instances of WoW on a GeForce 6600LE with 256MB. Getting around 18FPS in each window.

[-silencer-]

In most situations, no, the extra $50 for 1GB video memory won't help. You're better off having higher clock/memory speeds, larger bit path, and more shader units than extra video memory. Asking for videocard advice without knowing what monitors & resolutions you're trying to power doesn't help though.. what are your display(s)?

[zanthor]

19" @ 1280x1024
22" @ 1680x1050

Right now I'm only running two clients, I've got 2gb of system ram and it gets choppy if I run 4, a little laggy @ 3, 2 runs fine. The end goal is 4-5 clients, I recognize that my X2 6000 and 2gb or ram means I'll probably need to upgrade that to run smoothly, and the dual core may not be up to the task.

One thing I find frustrating is that I used to know video hardware inside and out, I knew what was best, what was awesome and what would suck... now i'm in a whole new ocean :( .

[Notes]

Better put the 50 bugs into some system memory, if not already maxed. I did it to be able to multi box and the difference is just blowing me away. From 5 WoW's crappy running to 5 WoW's running smoothly, just using my 256 mb grafics card.

(And believe it or not, I had 3gb, added 1 so got 4 in totall ... Man I'm so glad I did :D)

Good luck getting yer grafics card!



Edit: You just posted a reaction, states you got 2gb .. Get more! If you have Vista, get 2 more, if XP, 3gb is max I think... Also, I've read the extra memory has more effect under Vista then XP, because of the way Vista addresses the memory when the system gets a big load to handle, like 3 or more WoW's

[zanthor]

Yea, I'm thinking that the immediate upgrade is going to be the video card since it's tanking on me, however in the near future I am looking at 2gb of ram as well...

[-silencer-]

Honestly, I think the biggest improvement would be to have a 2nd 22" (or just 20") display at 1680x1050 so you can run horizontal span mode. The 22" would look better (same pixel pitch), but either in that resolution would be better. The performance improvement for hoizontal span over dual-view is huge in WinXP. My 8800GTX has disappointing performance in dual-view mode at 1920x1200 & 1680x1050, but I borrowed my roommate's 24" 1920x1200 to test out horizontal span on my machine and it was an unbelievable difference. I ordered a 2nd 24" at 1920x1200 and hope to have it sometime this week.

Memory is so cheap now though.. first maxing out memory to ~3.2GB in 32-bit Windows would be ideal, then plan on your next step from there.

[zanthor]

Running vista so span isn't an option or an issue.

[Taipan]

Zanthor,

I agree with your question and there is little available serious testing out there (if any) for us multi-boxing on a single PC with 2 wide-screen monitors.

I run a Quad Core 6600 2.4ghz, bios O/C to 3.0ghz, with 4 Go ram under Vista, with GFX 512mo (3870 or 8800 GT).

What I've found, and this is no bullet-proof testing so take it as such, is that I never max out on QuadCore nor the 4Go (actually 3.5go under Vista) : I barely ever reach 50% of max CPU power and 65% of MB ram.
In other words, I don't feel like a bottleneck there.

Using Riva Tuner, I found that my 3870 is running at 50% of its GPU usage on average, so no obvious bottleneck from the GPU raw power either.

But ONE thing I haven't been able to look into yet is the load on the GPU Ram (ie. the 512mo) and I'd love to investigate that when I have the time.

In summary, while Mbxing 5 clients on a single PC with 2 wide-screens 1680*1050 monitors under Vista :
- Quad Core 6600 : 50% usage
- 3.5Go Ram : 65% usage
- GFX GPU : 50% usage
- GFX Ram : no idea

My gut feeling tells me there might be something about GFX Ram usage for us MBoxers on single PC.

/salute

PS : any link for a GFX Ram usage applet most welcome.

[zanthor]

Just threw 2gb more ram into my box, can run 5x wow now @ 90-100% cpu (city spikes it) and 2.5gb ram used... tolerable framerates but still not outstanding.

The more I look into this the more I am sure it's textures being paged to system memory.

[Notes]

I'm using an AMD dual core proccessor, 1 of the old types(Think it's a 4200), and my system uses 3.2 gb memory if in a crowded city. Got it overclocked from 2.2ghz to 2.7 ghz and uses 90% in a city, 60% in an instance.

I'm saying this because I really think you can tweak your CPU settings a fair bit upwards, seeing you're running a faster CPU, if I'm correct. Now you have the 4gb, alot less cpu ussage but smoother frame rates should be doable.

PsI also have my add's maxed to 15fps, will make it higher though since my main is running so smoothly.

Good luck!

[zanthor]

The last time I tried overclocking cost me $900. Considering that without going to extreme measures it will give me a 10% performance boost at best and cause stability issues I've decided that it's not worth it. I can upgrade my CPU/Mainboard for LOTS cheaper than that!

[-silencer-]

I wouldn't bother trying to get much of an overclock out of the AMD X2 chips. Although I'm definitely getting more than 10% from a 2.4GHz overclock to 3.2GHz on my Core2Duo. The 8800GTX hasn't hit the limit yet. As long as you've researched and aren't over-aggressive with overclocking based on other user's results, you can safely overclock most hardware. Going back to the original P2 days, I've never had anything break from overclocking. Just keep your eye on temperature and stability.. and use good judgement on when to stop pushing it.

[Taipan]

Greetings,

Here is an update on my search for data on the usage of GFX ram while multi-boxing on a single PC.
(some info was posted already but I'll do a summary for new comers).

Note : if you want to google for some info about GFX Ram, try and use the expression "videomemory" as it seems to be the techie word for it.

1. There is no utility available yet to check the usage of GFX Ram under Vista, due to the new "memory virtualization" concept introduced in Vista.
This will trick your system into believing that GFX Ram is always 100% available, no matter how many 3D apps are running.
A more detailled explanation here : http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=239156
Note : the poster called Unwinder is actually the programmer of the utility called Riva Tuner (aka RT), a popular ut. for tweaking GFX cards.
This thread comes from his own RT forum on Guru of 3D site, he reacted within 12 hours to my post, � la KeyClone here :thumbup: (still waiting for qualified answers on Tom Hardware forums).

2. Under XP, Riva Tuner can show the usage of GFX Ram.
But you need to activate the Plugin called VidMem.dll, under Hardware Monitoring -> Setup -> Plugin.
This will show both usage of the GFX Ram and how much of your system RAM is used -once the GFX Ram is maxed out-.

3. I ran Riva Tuner on my second system with a Duo Core 6850 and a Nvidia 8800GT 512 mo, with two 22" monitors at 1680 * 1050 res each.
Here's what I found.

- Main WoW client in windowed-mode, 1680 * 1050 res : approx 150mo gfx ram used.
- One alt client in windowed-mode, 830 * 525 res : approx 50mo each (I did an increment launch)
- Main Wow on screen 1 and 4 Alts on screen 2 : approx 350mo total.
Note : you can actually see the GFX Ram drop from 150mo to 50mo when you resize your main client from full screen to 1/4 of screen.

So basically, a GFX 256mo will suffer and rely on slower system Ram to compensate and reach the 350mo required.
While a GFX 512mo will be very comfortable handling those 350mo, plenty of extra gfx ram available.
Not sure what a GFX 1go -with similar GPU- would add.
TBH, I think I'll pass on the new uber 3870X2-1Go at 400euros until someone tries it for MB 8)

Hope this helps and again, this is just food for thoughts, no hard bullet-proof testing.

/salute
PS : running these tests on the Duo 6850 Win XP system with 3Go Ram reminded me how good the Quad 6600 (bios O/C to 3.0ghz) is more capable of handling 5-boxes.
The 6850 was at 95% CPU usage non-stop in front of IronForge bank and struggling.

[Vos]

Taipan, that's awesome info. :thumbsup: Were your settings maxed out on the main 150gb 1680x1050 screen?

[Taipan]

Greetings Vos,

Thanks for the feedback.

My clients are busy in E. Plaguelands now but once back in IronForge, I'll run some tests with my main under different settings and post the gfx ram findings here.

/salute

[zanthor]

- Main WoW client in windowed-mode, 1680 * 1050 res : approx 150mo gfx ram used.
- One alt client in windowed-mode, 830 * 525 res : approx 50mo each (I did an increment launch)
- Main Wow on screen 1 and 4 Alts on screen 2 : approx 350mo total.
Note : you can actually see the GFX Ram drop from 150mo to 50mo when you resize your main client from full screen to 1/4 of screen. This would actually explain (possibly?) why the smaller windows work fine on my system and the larger one runs like pooh... the smaller windows are likely transmitting less data across to system ram... or since I launch them first they are actually consuming the 256mb of video ram and then the bigger (1680x1050) window suffers because it's straddling system ram...

If I didn't have raid tonight I'd fire up my box in XP and get some numbers on my setup before I put my 8800gt in... but i have raid nearly immediately after coming home.

[Taipan]

This would actually explain (possibly?) why the smaller windows work fine on my system and the larger one runs like pooh... the smaller windows are likely transmitting less data across to system ram... or since I launch them first they are actually consuming the 256mb of video ram and then the bigger (1680x1050) window suffers because it's straddling system ram...

If I didn't have raid tonight I'd fire up my box in XP and get some numbers on my setup before I put my 8800gt in... but i have raid nearly immediately after coming home.
This is a very valid point/question for players with less than 350m GFX Ram (ie. 256 or 320): which client benefits from faster GFX Ram and which gets slower system Ram ?

Does it spread as "First in First Served" basis or "Largest client gets GFX ram, smaller ones get system ram" basis ?

I believe this is getting into very obscure techie territory and the bullet-proof answer will be hard to find.

I could run some tests under XP but my only 256mo GFX is an ATI 1950Pro, which lacks raw processing power vs the 3870 and 8800GT with 512mo and may well render the comparison unreliable.

/salute