level 85 burst pvp

[remanz]

swifty released a new video on the level 85 pvp burst.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOrA0ZdI1js


against his level 85 entry level pvp geared ret paladin

Elemental shaman 6 sec
Frost Mage 6 sec
Fury warrior 6 sec
Beast Master Hunter 7 sec
Arms warrior 8 sec
Arcane Mage 8 sec
Ret Pally 9 sec
Destro Lock 9 sec
Fire Mage 9 sec
Feral Druid 10 sec
Boomkin 10 sec
Unholy DK 11 sec
Survival Hunter 11 sec
Demo Lock 11 sec
Subtility Rouge 12 sec
Shadow Priest 15 sec
Prot Pally 16 sec
Blood DK 16 sec
Affliction Lock 19 sec
Frost DK 32 sec
Resto Druid 35 sec
Prot Warrior 37 sec


a few notes, the frost dk was terrible. Not the class, but the player. the Rogue, they all used stun for combo points, otherwise they should kill faster than that. It seems like the arcane mage fucked up the rotation, should be a few seconds faster.

Seems like warrior back ontop for the melee. and shaman remains the king of burst.

Edit: new list swifty got some correction in http://www.youtube.com/user/johnsju#p/a/u/0/b3W-CyHGGOs

Fury Warrior (redone) 4 seconds (wtf)
Elemental Shaman 6 seconds
Frost Mage 6 seconds
Survival Hunter (redone) 6 seconds (not bad)
Beast Master HUnter 7 seconds
Frost Dk (redone) 7 seconds (that's more like it)
Enhance Shaman (new) 7 seconds
Arms warrior 8 seconds
Arcane Mage 8 seconds
Ret Paladin 9 seconds
Destro Lock 9 seconds
Fire Mage 9 seconds
Feral Druid 10 seconds
Marksman Hunter(new) 10 seconds
Boomkin Druid 10 seconds
Shadow Priest(redone) 10 seconds
Unholy Deathknight 11 seconds
Demo Lock 11 seconds
Sub Rogue 12 seconds
Affliction Lock (Redone) 12 seconds
Prot Paladin 16 seconds
Blood Dk (could not redo) 16 seconds
Prot Warrior 20+ seconds

[BrothelMeister]

6 seconds sounds like 3 to maybe 4 casts at most.

That means that 4 shamans should be able to 1-2 hit anything.....

i.e. Flame Shock --> Lava Burst at most?

[remanz]

I think lava burst was hitting for like 25-27k. full entry level pvp gear is 90k-100k hp I think.

FS => lava burst x 4 , he is dead. if no defensive CD

I was impressed with the fury warrior burst.

Open recklessness, the duel wield attacks were like 20k 18k 20k 18k . Then target down

[Ualaa]

With three, four or five of a class, looks like we'll still have relatively quick kills.
An opponent who fights back will last longer, no doubt.

[BrothelMeister]

This is not really much different than Wrath burst then IMO. I would prefer it take more along the lines of 12 spells to kill someone, as we can get 12 spells to arrive on target with 4 characters in 1 instant.

Opponents will still be able to blow up our characters with little coordination, and that seems scary.

[suicidesspyder]

Ok this is with pvp gear dont u think u would hit harder with pve gear. Set bonus more spellpower. So i imagine things will die faster then what we expect. 6 secs might mean two dead targets vs one pve less res but faster kills.

[heyaz]

that's exciting.. shaman hit like trucks

i totally saw that 38k fulmination

yeahhh

[Sam DeathWalker]

What class does the most burst damage at 40 yards?

The class I am moving to: Mage

How does he do that in just one trial with crits and what not seems could really effect the outcome, and of course who knows what Blizz will do by the time people are level 85.


Thats interesting that 2500 some resl is only 19percent or whatever reduction, I wonder if you use pve gear and gem for Sta if you would actually be better off in pvp? Guess it depends on how many hits you figure you will take before you die. Say 4 hits over 6 seconds. Say 100K HP. Say 25K per hit. Say 20K per hit with resl, say 5 hits with resl. Can you increase your HP by 25percent using pve gear and sta gems? Humm then healing needs be considers.....

[Mosg2]

RE Resilience: The numbers got bigger but he's still not capped on res. I'm sure the cap'll be somewhere near where it is now, percentage wise.

[BrothelMeister]

As far as Stamina vs. Resilience is concerned, Stamina in Cata might be better for surviving burst, as it was supposed to be greatly inflated over Wrath, and it already has, but for survival, I still think resilience will be better.

Unless the heals we self-cast all end up being ridiculous over-heal, resilience will reduce the amount of health bar that needs to be replaced.

[Ualaa]

Good point, on Sta vs Res.

[Noids]

Still likeing how our two sweetheart specs do in burst with some good self healing capabilities still. Shams at 6s and rets at 9s with the passive defensive utility that has always been there will be nice.

I remember reading a recent blue on mmo-champ saying that they will definitely be playing with burst related stats closer to 85, so that people don't just pop the way they do currently. It was mentioned that stam +/- res may get buffed if they need to. This shouldn't really affect the rankings though, which should still leave us in a good position with our focus fire advantage over single boxers.

On a sidenote, still haven't really conquered the holy power monitoring issues with ret yet.

[Kruschpakx4]

just played my permade shaman on beta, the damage is pretty good

shaman with full blue pvp gear (except weapon, shield, totem = heroic pve) ilvl 346/351 has 3140 resilience (22,76%dmg reduction) , 7,6k spellpower (with totem) 6,5% haste, 6% hit, 19,5% crit and 9,5% mastery

now the bad point is, you go really fast oom, way faster than in wotlk, like in duels I'm mostly using lava burst and heals, that doesnt work without spamming water shield because you have about 1,1k mana reg infight, 85k mana. A healing surge costs 6,3k mana and heals for ~9,5k (89k life) that means you need more than 50k mana to heal yourself from zero to 100% if you didnt get a crit ( hi 19% crit :X), then shocks cost 3,9-4,2k mana, chainlight 6k mana, lava burst 2,3 and lighting bolt 1,4k
totems around 1,4-2,5k
I did some duels on beta, owned almost everything except rogues. I cant fckn outdps a shs rogue! I used em ue (unleash elements) instant lb - lvb- cl - shock and the rogue dropped to 40% (he had full pvp gear), so as always kite him a bit and wait until ue is ready again, 15 secs over, he had 60% life, he cloaked my next burst attempt - 80% life, next burst attempt - vanish reopened - 100% life. I survived his damage 5 minutes (went oom after the first minute) but at the end he won the duel with more than 90% hp ... he wasnt really a good player, perhaps one successful kick per minute but the selfheal is really insane imo
Anyway stuff like mages, warriors, dk's, paladins are free loot in 1v1

so here are some numbers with full pvp gear, self buffed on dummies

without clearcasting (10% more damage):

lava burst ~19-20k crits (without ue)
lightning bolt ~8,8k nc - 18k crit (glyphed)
chainlight 7,5 nc - 15k crit
earthshock ~4k nc - 8k crit
fulmination one orb - ~2500, 6 orbs 15000 noncrit and the hightest crit with 6 orbs I had was 34895

ue+lava burst = ~24k
EM+ue+ lava burst= 28-31k (with clearcasting up to 34k)

Highest fulmination crit with em+clearcasting 43516

full pvp geared players have about 90-100k life with 3k resilience (battlemaster has also resilience now) you have ~20% damage reduction, maybe 25% if you go full on resilience

not sure about the spec, will see

[BrothelMeister]

So basically, with only 20% reduction with resilience the way it is at this first season, do you think PvP gear or PvE for season 9 BGs / Arena ? (For boxers)

[Kruschpakx4]

pvp gear, we have enough damage, an fs-ue-lava burst- chainlight combo will kill everything through ~25% damage reduction, but I would recommend to get all the haste pvp items and reforge set items to haste, if I will have mana issues with heals like I do expect them, then my arena spec will be http://wowtal.com/#k=TKcir0UD.a7t.shaman.RF9T_V and toons with 3/3 acuity instead of earths grasp
with focused insight up, healing surge does 12,3k heal instead of 9,5, means 50k instead of 38k with 4 shamans, with ms up 45k (hi 10% ms)
stoneclaw shield absorbs ~16k damage, 20 secs cooldown, so I'm going to make a stoneclaw/tremor rotation for each toon
maybe I'm going to play with a priest in s9 for mana hymne, and if you wonder why I dont spec improved shields, because good teams will spam dispel to prevent fulmination instant kills - using lighting shield glyph will force them to dispel it

bg spec will be http://wowtal.com/#k=kKcib-lg.a7t.shaman.qaX2xL, toons 2/3 focused insight instead of earths graps
not sure about the em glyph, thunder is important for mana, lighting shield glyph means less gcd waste for rebuffing the shield and stoneclaw is more usefull than 20% damage reduction for 15 secs each few minutes

[Barazanthul]

Hei Krusch,

do you thing leaving instant gw is a good idea?

[BrothelMeister]

Hei Krusch,

do you thing leaving instant gw is a good idea?

From my experience in arena, GW is not what wins the fight for a boxer. Sure mobility is nice utility, but in combat, a Boxer is simply a turret.

Instant GW is probably decent for BGs tho, so a BG spec might be worthwhile to grab it. Being able to traverse a large field quicker to catch that flag carrier is a good thing.

[Alemi]

From my experience in arena, GW is not what wins the fight for a boxer. Sure mobility is nice utility, but in combat, a Boxer is simply a turret.

Instant GW is probably decent for BGs tho, so a BG spec might be worthwhile to grab it. Being able to traverse a large field quicker to catch that flag carrier is a good thing.

I think the turret model is outdated, and movement will slowly become more and more of a necessity. Any decent spell cleave team will make it pretty rough using our old turret model with the amount of aoe cc available.

DK ranged Howling Blasts inflict Chilbains = 10 sec 25% slow.
Druid solar beam, instant cast 10 sec AOE silence.
Warlock Hand of Gul'dan - 2 second AOE root, following by a 2 second stun if you don't move out of the circle in 6 seconds.
Warlock Shadowfury - SSDD.
Mage Ring of Frost - 3 second AOE freeze if you don't move the hell out of it
Smoke Bomb - 10 seconds where you can't target into or out of the cloud while you stand in it.

Just off the top of my head. Theorycrafting, however, means that any decent spellcleave comp will tear a turret boxer to shreds. Take Druid/Mage/Lock/double healer.

Druid in stealth, instant cast roots your main Solar Beam, Mage tosses a Ring of Frost, Lock will follow with a shadowfury, Ring of Frost activates, add in a frost mage Freeze... even with quick reaction time we're talking 12-14 seconds of cc.

[Mosg2]

Chillblains is 50% snare :)

[Kruschpakx4]

I think the turret model is outdated, and movement will slowly become more and more of a necessity. Any decent spell cleave team will make it pretty rough using our old turret model with the amount of aoe cc available.

DK ranged Howling Blasts inflict Chilbains = 10 sec 25% slow.
Druid solar beam, instant cast 10 sec AOE silence.
Warlock Hand of Gul'dan - 2 second AOE root, following by a 2 second stun if you don't move out of the circle in 6 seconds.
Warlock Shadowfury - SSDD.
Mage Ring of Frost - 3 second AOE freeze if you don't move the hell out of it
Smoke Bomb - 10 seconds where you can't target into or out of the cloud while you stand in it.

Just off the top of my head. Theorycrafting, however, means that any decent spellcleave comp will tear a turret boxer to shreds. Take Druid/Mage/Lock/double healer.

Druid in stealth, instant cast roots your main Solar Beam, Mage tosses a Ring of Frost, Lock will follow with a shadowfury, Ring of Frost activates, add in a frost mage Freeze... even with quick reaction time we're talking 12-14 seconds of cc.

instant ghostwolf wont help against solar beam
smokebomb - rogues in 5v5? very rare
hand of guldan can be grounded

goblin jump = win

[remanz]

new list swifty got some correction in http://www.youtube.com/user/johnsju#p/a/u/0/b3W-CyHGGOs (http://www.youtube.com/user/johnsju#p/a/u/0/b3W-CyHGGOs)

Fury Warrior (redone) 4 seconds (wtf)
Elemental Shaman 6 seconds
Frost Mage 6 seconds
Survival Hunter (redone) 6 seconds (not bad)
Beast Master HUnter 7 seconds
Frost Dk (redone) 7 seconds (that's more like it)
Enhance Shaman (new) 7 seconds
Arms warrior 8 seconds
Arcane Mage 8 seconds
Ret Paladin 9 seconds
Destro Lock 9 seconds
Fire Mage 9 seconds
Feral Druid 10 seconds
Marksman Hunter(new) 10 seconds
Boomkin Druid 10 seconds
Shadow Priest(redone) 10 seconds
Unholy Deathknight 11 seconds
Demo Lock 11 seconds
Sub Rogue 12 seconds
Affliction Lock (Redone) 12 seconds
Prot Paladin 16 seconds
Blood Dk (could not redo) 16 seconds
Prot Warrior 20+ seconds

[Sephice]

forget that shit ^^

atm with the blue PvP Set you have around 110k live and 30% Damage reduce

my hardest Shaman Crit was 60k ( with LB Procc and Fulmination ) on a puppet and there was many luck! ^^ In PvP you have not time to build up this burst.

but we wills ee, if someone can burst someone, than a shaman MB

[Kruschpakx4]

got 113 k life in pvp gear and 28% dmg reduce with some sta/resil gems and 114k life in 259 pve gear


btw 64k earth shock http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/7167/57k.jpg

[Sephice]

Use booth resilence trinkets and you get 30%

i think thats okay, a shaman boxer make burst, a lot, the healer need too much mana to fix that and in the end you will win again :)

[BrothelMeister]

got 113 k life in pvp gear and 28% dmg reduce with some sta/resil gems and 114k life in 259 pve gear

you mean 359 ? Or does levle 80 gear really scale that well at 85 ?!!

[Sephice]

yes, he mean 359 is, premade char get atm the blue PvP Set and the Epic PvE Set

@ Krusch: a lvl 70 puppet is a critter ;) and you dont wear the full PvP Set

And its hard to get 9 stacks when a meele is in the enemy team, thats what i mean its hard to build up the burst :)

[Kruschpakx4]

yes, he mean 359 is, premade char get atm the blue PvP Set and the Epic PvE Set

@ Krusch: a lvl 70 puppet is a critter ;) and you dont wear the full PvP Set

And its hard to get 9 stacks when a meele is in the enemy team, thats what i mean its hard to build up the burst :)


45925 + 5761 with full pvp gear, max self buffed without pve trinkets on lvl 80 dummy

[BrothelMeister]

Just go back and forth between using Flame shock (with one toon using Frost Shock :D ) and using earth shock. With a Power auras set to show an icon for each toon for when they have more than 7 stacks of Lightning Shield, you can pretty easily gauge how much your Fulmination will hit for.

[Kruschpakx4]

Just go back and forth between using Flame shock (with one toon using Frost Shock :D ) and using earth shock. With a Power auras set to show an icon for each toon for when they have more than 7 stacks of Lightning Shield, you can pretty easily gauge how much your Fulmination will hit for.

the new raid frame also shows how many charges each party member has

[BrothelMeister]

the new raid frame also shows how many charges each party member has

Yea, but its a small icon to pick out, unless you really like having all the buffs nice an large.