pvp and haters

[Sbrowne55]

How do you guys handle all the hate? Sometimes when I'm just doing spectacular in a bg, while the others aren't I always get the blame for the loss. Some call me useless, retarded, terrible etc. Now usually it's the ones dying the most who complain, but sometimes, it's not. What is it, that makes them hate you even when your seriuosly doing all the work? Is it jealousy, tactics, the fact u take up 5 spots.

[zenga]

If you take up 5 spots in 10-15m BG , and you don't play excellent (i.e. better than 5 decent individual players could do), it's understandable that you will be blamed/hated for the loss. Doing 'your best' might be ok for some, but basically a non excellent boxer looks like a selfish bastard in WsG when he takes up 5 spots. If you were to run just 3 toons in WsG, then the team will most likely benefit from you. The rule of thumb for me is that a boxer should never be more than 1/3rd of the team, unless you are really good.

That is if they give you an objective comment. If they insult you and if they act like 14y old kids, just ignoring them will do. You might try to educate them if you are in a good mood, but ignoring mostly tends to work better for me. If you are good and carry the whole team, only the stupid will whine.

[Ualaa]

I've seen quite a few people post that they have disabled a lot of the chat channels. If you cannot see Battleground Chat, then you're unlikely to be bothered by anything that is said in that channel.

Some battlegrounds are more boxing friendly then others. For the most part, try to do the ones which you enjoy the most - which is probably the ones where you're able to contribute more in. If you can queue with a friend who is a healer, so your sole concern is bursting others down, you might be a bit more successful too.

Play to your strengths. You can burst people down, before the other team has an opportunity to react. You can storm a defended node and take it because of your coordination etc. In general, you're better off on offense then on defense, unless you're holding a choke point.

Ignoring the hate is probably better then arguing with the idiots.

[Pycno]

I think the haters are fun, in counterstrike I would fish for haters by camping and sniping but in wow its enough to just multibox.
Just don't pay attention to them if they bother you, you are right they are wrong and there is no need to discuss anything ;)
Actually if such comments bother you it must be hard to stay happy if your good mood is so fragile and easily swayed, just smile and laugh at them.

[valkry]

Don't turn off BG chat, you will limit your communication with the rest of the team and unlikely be able to help with an agreed strat because you can't see what it is... in which case they would be right in insulting you.

I have seen many BGs won with far less HKs by the winning team.

[Kicksome]

You think that's bad?

I had a boxer "Minxy" Mintythree (Who happened to be on just ONE of his toons in EOTS - and on my team). Start saying in EOTS how bad my 4x warlocks were. I have a positive win rate in EOTS, I'm not the best player, but I win more than I lose. I went through the trouble of getting all the crafted PvP gear and wrathful offsets that I could. But everyone needs to start somewhere, regardless.

We were actually winning the BG, and he was saying how fail I was.

Literally, he talked trash non-stop, while I was busting my ass. And we were WINNING.... When I said, how are you trash talking when we're winning? And he said, we're only winning because the team is carrying you.

So it was like 1200 to 1000, finally I had enough of the trash talk and said - you want to see what happens when I don't try? Because I think there's some confusion.

And I just sat at the GY. Needless to say Horde came back strong and we lost. But hell if I'm going to bust my ass and do my best, and then let some asshole talk trash the whole time.

Any normal person, no problem, but when it comes from a fellow boxer that's on my team spamming /bg that's pretty friggin bad. If you ever see that guy, he's an asshole.

Especially if it's a person who comes to this forum, and uses the information that all the boxer discover and take the time to post here. He's probably out there insulting the very people who helped him with his team.

[valkry]

You think that's bad?

I had a boxer "Minxy" Mintythree (Who happened to be on just ONE of his toons in EOTS - and on my team). Start saying in EOTS how bad my 4x warlocks were. I have a positive win rate in EOTS, I'm not the best player, but I win more than I lose. I went through the trouble of getting all the crafted PvP gear and wrathful offsets that I could. But everyone needs to start somewhere, regardless.

We were actually winning the BG, and he was saying how fail I was.

Literally, he talked trash non-stop, while I was busting my ass. And we were WINNING.... When I said, how are you trash talking when we're winning? And he said, we're only winning because the team is carrying you.

So it was like 1200 to 1000, finally I had enough of the trash talk and said - you want to see what happens when I don't try? Because I think there's some confusion.

And I just sat at the GY. Needless to say Horde came back strong and we lost. But hell if I'm going to bust my ass and do my best, and then let some asshole talk trash the whole time.

Any normal person, no problem, but when it comes from a fellow boxer that's on my team spamming /bg that's pretty friggin bad. If you ever see that guy, he's an asshole.

Especially if it's a person who comes to this forum, and uses the information that all the boxer discover and take the time to post here. He's probably out there insulting the very people who helped him with his team.
Yea, it's annoying when people bag you even though you are winning. A few times I myself have been insulted while we were winning because I got wiped out or failed to kill someone (yet what is important that I held the base long enough for help to arrive or prevent a cap goes un-noticed). And that is just wierd for a boxer to insult another boxer, seeing as we all start off as beginners.

BUT... you got trolled dude, and you just wronged everyone else on the team - who were trying to help win - because of one disgruntled player. They didn't deserve that. GG dude, really helping with our image. If you had just continued playing til the win everyone else would have left happy and considered you a decent player. But, with the stunt you pulled, you are the one who comes off looking like the dick.

I got nothing against you, but yea, just calling it how I see it.

[Pycno]

Kicksome, sounds like a really fun guy to piss off. Basically you can just act like you dont care and say he is way too much into the game.
Tell him its really important that he keeps playing and and let him know how proud his kids will be of their leet father that talks trash about others on the internet.
Their behavior is both stupid and embarrassing and such bullies deserve being made fun of.

My ONLY complaint with the games I play is whiners that swear and ruin a good time for others with their bad tempers. I adapted to this and have now almost cone to like whiners :)

[blast3r]

I find there is more hate in lower level BGs. In fact, for the most part, my team gets worshiped in the 80 bracket AV. Every so often there is a stupid noob hater who says something about me 'botting'. Where I then announce:

/bg Botting is against the TOS. If you find someone botting please report them to a GM. Thanks

:)

[Kicksome]

BUT... you got trolled dude, and you just wronged everyone else on the team - who were trying to help win - because of one disgruntled player. They didn't deserve that. GG dude, really helping with our image.

I got nothing against you, but yea, just calling it how I see it.

Well, you weren't in the BG so you didn't actually see anything. This actually happened to me.

If you saw the non-stop trash talking by Minxy you'd understand he was the one who lost the BG for the team. A few people started joining in with Minxy - "yeah you suck!" - people from his server who probably knew him. There were also two bots, so who cares about them. So that leaves about 3 people. At the end of the game, the BG leader says, Minxy, next time just STFU and play.

Enough people understand that if people start trash talking the whole BG, it's not the person who you're trash talking fault when you lose. It's the people who are doing more typing than playing.

I've carried enough BGs and had enough people say - "Awesome the Sweet team is here!!!" over the 3 years I've PvPd, that I have no problem at all if I lost one BG. I have an incredible rep in BGs and on my server. I've done far, far, far, far, far more harm than good. Everyone has a bad day. And I'd do this again in a second. In fact, I'd be pissed at myself if I didn't.

[Pycno]

Why care if you win or not?
I find the idea completely insane, after all you've invested in this form of advanced entertainment that you can play a game and have a bad time doing so..
I win around 50% of my battlegrounds but Im having fun in 100% of them.
The problem is not the whiners but your attitude, you are ruining your own fun. The reason why the problem is yourself is because that's the only thing you can change. You can't change everyone into approve if neither you or multiboxing in general.

Seriously, every damn second should be fun else its a complete waste of time and you will get more out of other things you enjoy more.

[Littleburst]

If you take up 5 spots in 10-15m BG , and you don't play excellent (i.e. better than 5 decent individual players could do), it's understandable that you will be blamed/hated for the loss.



Don't turn off BG chat, you will limit your communication with the rest of the team and unlikely be able to help with an agreed strat because you can't see what it is... in which case they would be right in insulting you.
+1 to the above quotes.


Why care if you win or not?
I find the idea completely insane, after all you've invested in this form of advanced entertainment that you can play a game and have a bad time doing so..
I win around 50% of my battlegrounds but Im having fun in 100% of them.
The problem is not the whiners but your attitude, you are ruining your own fun. The reason why the problem is yourself is because that's the only thing you can change. You can't change everyone into approve if neither you or multiboxing in general.

Seriously, every damn second should be fun else its a complete waste of time and you will get more out of other things you enjoy more.

Well, everyone his/her own opinion, but i play a BG to win it mostly. That's what gives me the most fun, so if there would be some random boxer who thought he'd be pro by being as effective as the random HKfarmer, then that's not something I would like. I really don't see what you're trying to aim at though. You want us to change ourself so we don't care at all what happens and if you get offended or not and to "just have fun." ? All i can say, good for you you're having fun. But that's not gonna work for me. :D

[Siaea]

I've found that hate is inversely proportional to the size of the BG. If I'm in AV or IoC, people love me. Wintergrast, pfft, I'm a hero there...since I can nearly global a tank.

When I made the mistake of going into AB (my favorite vanilla BG on my solo mage), the 'almost' loss was my fault. Go figure.

[Littleburst]

I've found that hate is inversely proportional to the size of the BG. If I'm in AV or IoC, people love me. Wintergrast, pfft, I'm a hero there...since I can nearly global a tank.

When I made the mistake of going into AB (my favorite vanilla BG on my solo mage), the 'almost' loss was my fault. Go figure.

That's very easy to explain. The smaller the Bg, the more boxing is a handicap. You're always 4-5 chars at the same spot. In smaller BG's that can indead be devastating. The others have to adept to it to be really effective. In AV, you're a much smaller portion of the whole raid. So the fact that you'll always have 4-5 chars is more a positive things because it makes you more effective, then that it's a handicap.

[Greythan]

I cringe when the random tosses me into WG.

As an entry level 4 shammie team, I'm losing more than winning in WG and I feel bad about it.

That said, I've gotten literally 3 or 4 tells along the lines of "Reported" and a TON more folks who notice my team and are like "Cool".

[Pycno]

Well, everyone his/her own opinion, but i play a BG to win it mostly. That's what gives me the most fun, so if there would be some random boxer who thought he'd be pro by being as effective as the random HKfarmer, then that's not something I would like. I really don't see what you're trying to aim at though. You want us to change ourself so we don't care at all what happens and if you get offended or not and to "just have fun." ? All i can say, good for you you're having fun. But that's not gonna work for me. :D

There can be different opinions but some facts will always remain the same, like how games are supposed to be fun and the ultimate goal of playing a game is to kill time and have fun. If you played a game and did not find it relaxing or fun you completely wasted the time you spent and would be better off doing something you enjoyed more. If you disagree with this you are delussional - the only exception to this MIGHT be for professional gamers but one can argue that they should spend their time getting out of the gaming tournaments and do something else instead.


Im not saying its boring to win, Im saying losing is inevitable nomatter what you do - but you should be having fun regardless or log out and do something else long before it gets to you. The only thing you need to do in the game is to have fun, everything else is optional.
I do always try and help my team but I cant win alone, I need my team to be somewhat capable the same way they need me to be somewhat capable. If its a hopeless situation I dont do what most players seem to do: charge alone into a large crowd of enemies and die everytime then complain while waiting for ress, I find other fun things to do such as mindless honor kill farming. Ultimately I dont need to win a battleground as I tend to have honor cap all the time anyway (cba buying even more gems).

Paying money and spending your precious free time volunterily on an activity that can be unpleasant isnt the smartest way to spend ones free time. Its sort of like traveling to a country you hate and have a miserable vacation over and over again :p


Complaining/venting out anger onto other players will not change anything and it will only be a matter of time before you need to vent out even more frustration at other innocent players. The only thing you are able to change is your own perception, if you want to you can have fun all of the time in the game and never be frustrated or annoyed by anything. You can be in an AV and not care if you are playing with 1 or 39 retards, they cant influence you in any way unless you let them.

Ultimately I dont care if others are right or not, I only care that my own opinion is right. I usually disagree with most people and I think thats good because I really dont think too highly of most people, few people are really worth taking advice from and listening to :)


Check out my comment to some dude that bashed my old guild after he supposedly soloed 3 members in it alone. Im in general very friendly, patient and helpful but that changes when I encounter players such as the one quoted below. I dont get angry I just think its fun to see how fragile they are and how soon they lose their tempers. Im not perfect, I like bullying internet bullies :)



bunch of *@%% players of which the only thing they "gank" is npcs, they kill more npcs each week than all the raiding guilds on the alliance side combined

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9514/abog.jpg

have fun with your 'world pvp'ABOG maybe the most fun guild I have had the pleasure of playing with making it as far as Im concerned one of the best guilds to be in.

Basically they have more fun and waste less time and this makes them superior to most other guilds around.

You having average ilvl of 274+, Shadowmourne, 7k+ achievement points and Grand Crusader title will probably just shrug at this.

Games are not about skill, they are about fun, anyone saying otherwise (except for MAYBE professional players) are delussional. You are among the last players I would listen to for gameplay advice, I wouldnt be surprised if you are planning to take time off from work to play Cataclysm when it is released.

You do deserve praise for killing three players alone, that requires skill and gear which I guess is your reward for being addicted to epics. This addiction can be fueled by lack of real and actual accomplishments, typically the lesser one feels in real life the stronger the urge to feel superior in games become.

[Alemi]

IMHO - Who cares what anyone else thinks about you and your team? You pay your sub fee, go and have fun. I ignore pretty much everything people say and play for the objectives. If people want to fight off flags on the roads, try to take stables, solo run the flag, sit in the middle in EOTS, more power to them. I'll fight for the objectives and you can blame me for the loss all you want.

My standard response in bg chat now to whatever they say?

"You sound cute. Can we be friends?"

[Pycno]

My standard response in bg chat now to whatever they say?

"You sound cute. Can we be friends?"

Just awesome :) Anyone fall for it?

[Ualaa]

I like that.

[Alemi]

Just awesome :) Anyone fall for it?

Not yet, but I'm sure someone will. It basically just disarms them and denies them the drama they need. Usually the response is "fag" "pussy bitch" or something of the like.

"Your choice of words intrigues me. Where did you learn such masterful English skills?"

Generally, the ones who try to call me out the most are the most unproductive in the BG.

Oh, and if people call me bots? I spam /train on 4 female orcs and /moo on one male tauren. It's pretty damn obnoxious but amuses me to no end.

[Littleburst]

There can be different opinions but some facts will always remain the same, like how games are supposed to be fun and the ultimate goal of playing a game is to kill time and have fun. If you played a game and did not find it relaxing or fun you completely wasted the time you spent and would be better off doing something you enjoyed more. If you disagree with this you are delussional - the only exception to this MIGHT be for professional gamers but one can argue that they should spend their time getting out of the gaming tournaments and do something else instead.


Im not saying its boring to win, Im saying losing is inevitable nomatter what you do - but you should be having fun regardless or log out and do something else long before it gets to you. The only thing you need to do in the game is to have fun, everything else is optional.
I do always try and help my team but I cant win alone, I need my team to be somewhat capable the same way they need me to be somewhat capable. If its a hopeless situation I dont do what most players seem to do: charge alone into a large crowd of enemies and die everytime then complain while waiting for ress, I find other fun things to do such as mindless honor kill farming. Ultimately I dont need to win a battleground as I tend to have honor cap all the time anyway (cba buying even more gems).

Paying money and spending your precious free time volunterily on an activity that can be unpleasant isnt the smartest way to spend ones free time. Its sort of like traveling to a country you hate and have a miserable vacation over and over again
This is a bit simple really. A game often has a goal, like overcoming a challenge or so. Because of this, you'll inevitable fail once. Else it's hardly a challenge. So i don't see how finding losing shit, to not match with having fun. It's inevitable really.

[Jeppis]

Haven't seen many haters in pvp yet usually theres just players who are happy to see ally multiboxer in our crap battlegroup but if there's hater i'll let them be angry kids and continue my game. Though it's fun to feed troll sometimes and see if they show some intelligence or something new in all that hate...

I think i got used to all hate in CS when i was playing my _A_ game 6-8 years ago, i think it was pretty funny to see some hate and get banned after i sniped to victory 1vs9 situation or after 2 rounds when my score was 28 kills 0 deaths...

[ZooljinX]

I actually enjoy some hate mails/spam, allways makes me smile :)

[Pycno]

This is a bit simple really. A game often has a goal, like overcoming a challenge or so. Because of this, you'll inevitable fail once. Else it's hardly a challenge. So i don't see how finding losing shit, to not match with having fun. It's inevitable really.

Its all in your perception, outside influences can suggest you to become frustrated or angry but you have to chose to react that way by yourself. You get to chose what should get to you and it says alot about what you are insecure about if you do let something get to you. Many folks try to persuade flamers and prove them wrong and in the process revealing that the flamer struck a nerve.

The mindset you outline there suggest you are expecting to lose/fail at least some of the time and that it is part of learning something and finally mastering a challenge. That sounds great as some players expect to win 100% of the time and are disappointed if they cant do that. People have a limit to their patience however, after so many fails you start seeing /raidquits, enrages and /gquits.

If you find challenges fun and dont mind dying alot then by all means, the only right is to have fun/enjoy and the only wrong would be the opposite.


I shrug at players that ask me why I do "pointless" or "meaningless" things and suggest I should go farm items or grind reputations instead. Having fun in video games is obviously a waste of time if it doesnt develop your character according to some people who have their priorities mixed up and find it more important to develop their character than to actually having fun.

[suicidesspyder]

I dont get hate just the opposite, ive got to tell them to go do stuff instead of sitting on my ass the whole time.

But its fun i lose 90% of the time cause my battle group sux bad. But i still have so much fun like thunderstorming three people from lumber mill to bs thats funny lol

Also killing a pally before he gets to me.

[Boylston]

My battlegroup has seen me play enough that some people cheer when I'm in their BG. I take control of the BG, tell them I'm multiboxing and that they need to listen to my instructions in order to win.

I recommend scaling back characters in the smaller BGs unless you are VERY good. I still contend that 4 is the optimal number for almost all BGs. If you are new, undergeared, or an "average" player, I would not take more than 3 into WSG, for instance.

If you bring 5 characters into WSG and then cause a loss, you deserve the verbal punishment.

I've been boxing long enough that most people who know me are quite happy to see me in the BG!

[suicidesspyder]

yea boyl i get that in wintergrasp. Except im 79 and they tell me to get up and hurry and get 80 so ill be better for them lol.

[valkry]

If you bring 5 characters into WSG and then cause a loss, you deserve the verbal punishment.
If you bring ANY character/s into WSG and cause a loss, you deserve the verbal punishment.

[cmeche]

I was on my 5 shaman(who are geared):

I whispered a voa25 group last night that was lfm rdps. So I say i can bring 5, he invites my main and then my main invites my other 4 shaman.....all shaman have very similar names. Not but 2 seconds later the raid leader starts cursing and freaking out and without warning all 5 get booted.

Now, I wasnt all that upset. People tend to be misinformed about boxing, but I wanted to hear this guys reasoning for being "scared" of my shaman.

He starts to explain how fail I would be trying to focus on orbs.:D

lol, If my setup isnt focus fire........I dont know what is.;)

[zenga]

I was on my 5 shaman(who are geared):

I whispered a voa25 group last night that was lfm rdps. So I say i can bring 5, he invites my main and then my main invites my other 4 shaman.....all shaman have very similar names. Not but 2 seconds later the raid leader starts cursing and freaking out and without warning all 5 get booted.


On my server they want me to box in voa quite often, especially during the nights. Now after a couple of weeks I finally gave in and had 3 toons in top 5 dps, so I pulled my weight. There is an enhancement & another ele shaman in the raid. Enh. is fully decked out, the ele was almost lowest on dps in decent gear, not or wrong gemmed, etc ... So the 270 pvp hands drop. I roll with 3 shamans on it, as my other already had them (not equipped). And I win the roll. Tradition is here that pvp gears are a class roll, regardless from your spec. The enhancement and the ele start to whine, that I should only roll once ...

[Kicksome]

he enhancement and the ele start to whine, that I should only roll once ...

I'd say, that's fine, I'll just use my highest roll.

[Ualaa]

Depends on the loot rules, going in. If you agree to one roll per player, then go with that. The default is one roll per character; but there's usually one player per character.

But, if you had only brought one of your toons, and three different players had each also brought a single shaman, the other two shammies would not object at all...

[Pycno]

If you bring ANY character/s into WSG and cause a loss, you deserve the verbal punishment.

Whats next - if your rating is below 2000 and your resilience below 1000 you also deserve verbal punishment?


Ive seen alot of really bad players and some dont dare go into battlegrounds or even dungeons because they are afraid of getting flamed. Imagine your girlfriend or wife playing the game from time to time and is not as updated as everyone else into everything and then some crazy nerd rager goes enrage on her because she took an sub-optimal item unknowingly or didnt manage to heal someone fast enough in a battleground.
Seriously, not everyone will be at your level of skill, gear and dedication - people should accept that instead of flaming lesser skilled players.

[zenga]

Whats next - if your rating is below 2000 and your resilience below 1000 you also deserve verbal punishment?


Ive seen alot of really bad players and some dont dare go into battlegrounds or even dungeons because they are afraid of getting flamed. Imagine your girlfriend or wife playing the game from time to time and is not as updated as everyone else into everything and then some crazy nerd rager goes enrage on her because she took an sub-optimal item unknowingly or didnt manage to heal someone fast enough in a battleground.
Seriously, not everyone will be at your level of skill, gear and dedication - people should accept that instead of flaming lesser skilled players.

There is a difference between stupid elitism and common sense. Personally I have a lot of resistance myself to get into more experienced / skilled groups when I'm not at their level (yet). Not so true anymore for wow at the moment, but that is a general attitude I have in games. Not that I lack confidence, more that I have a realistic view on my skills and I don't want to fuck up fellow players their game. The only thing I expect from players who play in my group, is that they do their best.

In wow doing your best means that you read the tooltips, your spells and your talents. That you think for a second how much damage a certain spell does and how you can contribute to your goup. That doesn't mean that you should know each and every tactic in the game. But doing also means that you ask for help or inform others that you are unsure about something.

I don't see why they couldn't join battlegrounds when they have no experience. Getting killed over and over only affects yourself, and not so much the whole group. In a heroic dungeon however, you screw it up for others. It seems that heroics are considered trivial content, and that newly dinged lvl 80 players should start there. Well I strongly disagree. There is also a normal version of the dungeons, it's called heroics for a good reason. There are enough means to get better at something without screwing other players up.

Today I was queuing up with my tank for a random hc, HoL. As I'm pretty well geared (59k hp buffed), I chain pulled the first packs, the priest ran oom and we wiped. He felt sorry and told so in party chat. But he did what he could do and it was my fault to judge wrong. He just dinged 80 with his first toon and his brother warlock was doing a first HC with him, so he could not get kicked. There was also a warrior and a dk. Warrior did 3K over dungeon, lock 1.6 and dk 1.1. We wiped 2 more times when the priest ninja pulled a couple of mobs right before 2nd boss. But that was just inexperience. But he asked questions about where to stand, he informed me when he was low on mana and when he had a cooldown. Everyone stayed the whole dungeon, and after about 50 minutes we cleared it. And we ended up doing a couple more hc's flawlessly minus the dk. Long story short: the priest clearly did his best, he was just inexperienced. But he realized that and showed a good attitude. And I rather spend time in the game with someone like him over a moronic player in fancy epics who doesn't have a clue how to play his class and says 'lolz m8 relax, itz only game, I dont need gems'.

That being said, I think the post you referred to was meant for multiboxers. There is always a 50% chance that a player is either bad or good. If you bring more than 1 toon into a bg, and you are bad, you basically increase the groups bad ratio, and you should imo refrain from doing it, because you screw up other players their game. Until you are good enough to bring multiple toons into a small BG to not affect the groups bad ratio, stick to AV, wintergrasp or isle of conquest to practice.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

And I rather spend time in the game with someone like him over a moronic player in fancy epics who doesn't have a clue how to play his class and says 'lolz m8 relax, itz only game, I dont need gems'.Soooo true.

[Pycno]

Zenga, that is no different from me expecting everyone to be gladiators and flame those who are not. If losing a battle spoils your gameplay then competitive games may not be for you. You are supposed to have fun trying to win or trying to do other things such as achievements - there is absolutely no excuse for being antisocial and harassing other players when they are not cheating but simply playing their game.

If you want to play with players of your level you can hand pick each and every member of your party or raid for dungeons and nearly all battlegrounds, this would be a good thing as decent players don't have to be harassed by elitist players that becomes angry or frustrated with a game.

If everyone thought like you did then everyone would harass eachother because there is extremely big difference in player capabilities, also at gladiator level as some gladiators really are noobs when compared to the really good gladiators.

I don't like elitist players, imo they are always too far into the game, often obsessed.

[valkry]

Whats next - if your rating is below 2000 and your resilience below 1000 you also deserve verbal punishment?


Ive seen alot of really bad players and some dont dare go into battlegrounds or even dungeons because they are afraid of getting flamed. Imagine your girlfriend or wife playing the game from time to time and is not as updated as everyone else into everything and then some crazy nerd rager goes enrage on her because she took an sub-optimal item unknowingly or didnt manage to heal someone fast enough in a battleground.
Seriously, not everyone will be at your level of skill, gear and dedication - people should accept that instead of flaming lesser skilled players.
I don't think you read it correctly. If you CAUSE the loss. If you are the REASOn why the team loses. Then you deserve the verbal punishment. This can be achieved through any number of ways... why did you immediately jump to gear issues? I never even mentioned that.

PS: Posted this after reading the first sentence in your post, didn't read anything after that due to my amazement.

[Pycno]

Are you saying that every time you lose someone or several players on your team deserve verbal punishment for not being able or willing to outplay the enemy? And that every time you win someone on the enemies team deserve verbal punishment?

NO. Flaming eachother is unjustified, never necessary and it achieves and accomplishes nothing. It's just an excuse some players use to ventilate frustration onto others that is caused by their own addiction. If you can't enjoy the game that doesn't mean you have any right to offend everyone else.

I would love playing with you deliberately trying to lose, rather see you angry then decent players sad after your harassment. There is no way possible for you to annoy me or do anything but give me more to laugh at as I could not care less about you or your opinions.


Grats on being a bully that unprovoked offend and harass others, you must be a nice person.

Stupid people don't solve problems they blame them on somebody else, people get what they deserve in many cases and whining is stupid because it does not help - its the same people whining in all games and the problem is not in the game but in themselves.

[suicidesspyder]

Here is some hate for you. Last night before i turned 80 figured one more AB at 79 was in order, So went in there same game plane take bs take farm then hit gy. Well did just that they had capped st and lm so we had 4. I told them at the beginning how this was gonna work.

I said ok this is the deal 1 cap stables and stay 4 goto lm cap 1 stay there. I will cap bs one come and stay there, then ill hit farm. Worked good usually always win doing this. Bad thing was no one listened, They did cap but no one stayed can you believe that. Here i am sitting at gy keeping over half thier team and they gy,

And they let them recap everything. They blamed me. I was like ok i told you all the plan ive always won like this. But u guys capped and ran away. But you know i shoulda known when there wasnt a higher level then 73 on my side that it wasnt going to work.

So that was reality people just dont listen to reason. I cap u stay but they all wanted to follow me stupid people.

[zenga]

Zenga, that is no different from me expecting everyone to be gladiators and flame those who are not. If losing a battle spoils your gameplay then competitive games may not be for you. You are supposed to have fun trying to win or trying to do other things such as achievements - there is absolutely no excuse for being antisocial and harassing other players when they are not cheating but simply playing their game.

If you want to play with players of your level you can hand pick each and every member of your party or raid for dungeons and nearly all battlegrounds, this would be a good thing as decent players don't have to be harassed by elitist players that becomes angry or frustrated with a game.

If everyone thought like you did then everyone would harass eachother because there is extremely big difference in player capabilities, also at gladiator level as some gladiators really are noobs when compared to the really good gladiators.

I don't like elitist players, imo they are always too far into the game, often obsessed.

You didn't read my post, did you? I said the opposite of what you suggest I said. Even gave an example how I helped out a newbie. And by no means I mentioned harassment. I don't harass players, nor do I support it.

Was is that harassment actually?

For me harassment are comments like:
- you stupid fuck, learn to heal
- omfg how dumb are you? kill demo's first before players
- noob learn2play, you got your toon from ebay?

i.e. harassment in my book are direct insults where you drag down the other player his/her personality.

But stuff like:
- crap, another node lost cause no defense
- mate you should attack demo's first instead of players
- ffs jump on the demo when you are ranged
- damnit don't aggro mobs before I do, I'm the tank, next time I'll let you die

For me the last 4 examples are not harassment, those are comments/observations where you criticize someones actions, you don't question his/her intelligence. If they take that personal on the other hand then ... well yeah too bad i'd say.

Again, the only requirement I have from fellow players in my group is that they do their best. And I think that's more or less true for any group activity (sport/game) in society . And doing your best does not equal having awesome skills.

[Pycno]

You wrote you deserved verbal punishment if you caused your team to lose. If 15 mediocre gladiators meet 15 great gladiators then according to you these mediocre gladiators deserve verbal punishment.

I'm all open to being helpful and give advice to players that want it, but harassment or verbally punishment should earn you a ban.

Also there is no way for you to know if a player is a newbie trying hard or a pro slacking.
I've played with people that used demoralizing shout instead of maul because they fought it dealt more damage - the animation of the shout has the bear rising up and smashing down on opponents but it deals 0 dmg.
And also someone using volley to single target dps also thinking it dealt the most damage with dozens of arrows raining down.


BTW the examples you listed are outright whine and complaining. It helps for nothing except show the world how short a fuse you have and little patience before you must vent out frustration.

[zenga]

You wrote you deserved verbal punishment if you caused your team to lose. If 15 mediocre gladiators meet 15 great gladiators then according to you these mediocre gladiators deserve verbal punishment.

Mate i wrote that if a boxer brings more than 1 toon and plays crap he deserves to be blamed for it and hated. I did not write anywhere that it had to be verbal. Blaming someone for a loss can be done in several ways. Hate is something you can keep to yourself, though the connotation of that word might be different in our native languages.

If someone is a crappy player, he should refrain from bringing more crappy players to AB/WsG, because he screws up the game for others. He should try to improve solo first, and only box when he is confident enough he won't screw up. That has nothing to do with elitism, that is just common sense and being a decent person. The crappy boxer who think he is entitled to screw up the game for his fellow teammates is the jerk here. So your example does not make sense since it's for solo purposes, while my comments (and those of others in this thread) were aimed at boxers. Please stop taking statements out of their context.


Also there is no way for you to know if a player is a newbie trying hard or a pro slacking.
I've played with people that used demoralizing shout instead of maul because they fought it dealt more damage - the animation of the shout has the bear rising up and smashing down on opponents but it deals 0 dmg.
And also someone using volley to single target dps also thinking it dealt the most damage with dozens of arrows raining down.
I agree to a certain extend here, and recognize your examples. But if the player says he is a newbie, then that's a good indication for me. If a player has badge gear, and even a couple icc epics, that I don't consider him as a newbie when he pulls aggro, use the wrong spells or has no enchants whatsoever. Then they are slacking, lazy or complete wow-idiots.



BTW the examples you listed are outright whine and complaining. It helps for nothing except show the world how short a fuse you have and little patience before you must vent out frustration.

Well if someone told me in my first SotA that I had to attack demo's instead of players, regardless how he said it, I considered what he said and did a quick google. It improved my performance in the end.

If someone told me that I should wait till the tank has aggro before dps'ing, then I knew i was doing something wrong.

I don't see how that is venting out frustration, those our simple indications telling a player they are doing something wrong.

We might see the world totally different, and that's fine by me as long as the discussion happens in a normal way, i.e. don't put words in the mouth of someone, when he never said that.

[valkry]

You wrote you deserved verbal punishment if you caused your team to lose. If 15 mediocre gladiators meet 15 great gladiators then according to you these mediocre gladiators deserve verbal punishment.

I'm all open to being helpful and give advice to players that want it, but harassment or verbally punishment should earn you a ban.

Also there is no way for you to know if a player is a newbie trying hard or a pro slacking.
I've played with people that used demoralizing shout instead of maul because they fought it dealt more damage - the animation of the shout has the bear rising up and smashing down on opponents but it deals 0 dmg.
And also someone using volley to single target dps also thinking it dealt the most damage with dozens of arrows raining down.


BTW the examples you listed are outright whine and complaining. It helps for nothing except show the world how short a fuse you have and little patience before you must vent out frustration.
You can't quote someone arguing singually then give an example of a team effort.

If "you" cause your team to lose "you" deserve verbal punishment. (That is singular).

If 15 mediocre gladiators meet 15 great gladiators then according to you these mediocre gladiators deserve verbal punishment. (That's not singular and thus a poor example which only reflects badly upon your debating skills and argument. No offense intended there, just pointing out the flaw... "I'm all open to being helpful and give advice to players").

Now, within that team of 15 mediocre gladiators, there would be some who follow a team strat (hopefully one that generally provides positive results) and there will be a few who go 'do their own thing.' While they do have every right to do so, you have to admit that it can (and does) cause their team to lose (assuming they lose of course, because you failed to cite wether or not they actually lose to the 15 great gladiators who may or may not have been "pros slacking"). Staying in the middle all game to HK farm and ignoring the opposition flag carriers/healers will help cause (a lot) your team to lose (maybe that's why they are mediocre in the first place).

Punishment (one extreme) is helpful for providing reflection and education. If no action (the opposite extreme) is taken to correct one's behaviour, then no improvment should (usually) be expected in performance.

BTW, Zenga's last 4 examples are actually really good examples of showing what a player does wrong and how to rectify it in a not overly-aggressive manner. I don't see how you fail to see that..


If you want to play with players of your level you can hand pick each and every member of your party or raid for dungeons and nearly all battlegrounds, this would be a good thing as decent players don't have to be harassed by elitist players that becomes angry or frustrated with a game.
1. It's one of the reaosn we multibox
2. Decent players don;t usually get harrassed.

[valkry]

Are you saying that every time you lose someone or several players on your team deserve verbal punishment for not being able or willing to outplay the enemy? And that every time you win someone on the enemies team deserve verbal punishment?

NO. Flaming eachother is unjustified, never necessary and it achieves and accomplishes nothing. It's just an excuse some players use to ventilate frustration onto others that is caused by their own addiction. If you can't enjoy the game that doesn't mean you have any right to offend everyone else.

I would love playing with you deliberately trying to lose, rather see you angry then decent players sad after your harassment. There is no way possible for you to annoy me or do anything but give me more to laugh at as I could not care less about you or your opinions.


Grats on being a bully that unprovoked offend and harass others, you must be a nice person.

Stupid people don't solve problems they blame them on somebody else, people get what they deserve in many cases and whining is stupid because it does not help - its the same people whining in all games and the problem is not in the game but in themselves.
A loss doesn't always mean somone does something wrong. You can do everything right and still get outplayed by gear/class/strat and that isn't your fault.

[Pycno]

Originally Posted by valkry http://www.dual-boxing.com/images/IPBPRO/buttons_IPBPRO/viewpost.gif (http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?p=298039#post298039)
If you bring ANY character/s into WSG and cause a loss, you deserve the verbal punishment.

So you meant only multiboxers, does that mean 5 individual bad players causing a loss do not deserve "verbal punishment"?

That it goes only for multiboxer?


You probably disagree with this but in my opinion anyone should be able to play the game the way they want to as long as they dont offend others or cheat. People that fail to meet this expectation should find something else to spend their time on - its not right for one unkind person to have fun at the expense of other innocent and normal behaving people.

I dont trash chat channels or harass normal players, but Im no saint either and I dont mind letting internet bullies know how much I disapprove of their unpleasantries. They are emotionally unstable and need to whine to let out pressure and no one besides them can change that so its a lost cause trying to change them, but at least one can stand up for the players being harassed.

The only thing required for evil to continue is for good people to do nothing about it.


We are actually both defending verbally attacking others, the difference is you defend starting verbal attacks while I defend responding to it.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

http://www.sfgate.com/n/pictures/2004/12/01/nitpick3.jpg

[zenga]

... anyone should be able to play the game the way they want to as long as they dont offend others or cheat. People that fail to meet this expectation should find something else to spend their time on - its not right for one unkind person to have fun at the expense of other innocent and normal behaving people.t.

People can play the game the way they want to, as long as they play it solo. WoW has certain mechanics that require you not to play the way you want while in group: their are roles and objectives. I'll give examples:

- the objective of a quest is to complete it, and take your reward
- the objective of an instance/raid is fight your way up to a boss and kill it
- the objective of a battleground is to win it, by capping flags, towers, and kill enemies

Thus:

- a tank should keep the mobs off the party members and thus not decide to dps instead of tanking, just like a healer is supposed to heal and not tank or dps, if you decide otherwise because you play the way you want to, you screw other people up
- if you decide to just do whatever you want in a bg, instead of trying to go for the objectives (cap flag, tower, ...) then you ignore the very basic mechanics of the game, and you screw it up for others

For both mechanics / roles there is gear, spells and stats. And for each talent spec / class there is a right (+excellent) and wrong (+terrible) way to do it. If you decide just to ignore all that and play the way you want in a group, then you screw it up for others. If others in this group tell you that you are doing something wrong (and due to that give them a worse time), the only sensible thing to do is listen to it, consider it and see how you can fill your role in that group better next time.

And as a boxer your responsibility in a group is even bigger. But I think that's been explained enough in this topic. If you want to ignore certain facts and blame others for criticizing, and rather put the focus on how they say something rather than on what they are saying, I believe this discussion is kinda pointless.

[valkry]

So you meant only multiboxers, does that mean 5 individual bad players causing a loss do not deserve "verbal punishment"?

That it goes only for multiboxer?


You probably disagree with this but in my opinion anyone should be able to play the game the way they want to as long as they dont offend others or cheat. People that fail to meet this expectation should find something else to spend their time on - its not right for one unkind person to have fun at the expense of other innocent and normal behaving people.

I dont trash chat channels or harass normal players, but Im no saint either and I dont mind letting internet bullies know how much I disapprove of their unpleasantries. They are emotionally unstable and need to whine to let out pressure and no one besides them can change that so its a lost cause trying to change them, but at least one can stand up for the players being harassed.

The only thing required for evil to continue is for good people to do nothing about it.


We are actually both defending verbally attacking others, the difference is you defend starting verbal attacks while I defend responding to it.
Nope, no where have I said I mean only multiboxers. Go through my posts and find that quote before putting words into my mouth. If 5 individual players cause (I don't automatically assume "bad" like you seem to have) a loss then they do deserve it, yes.

[Pycno]

People can play the game the way they want to, as long as they play it solo. WoW has certain mechanics that require you not to play the way you want while in group: their are roles and objectives. I'll give examples:

- the objective of a quest is to complete it, and take your reward
- the objective of an instance/raid is fight your way up to a boss and kill it
- the objective of a battleground is to win it, by capping flags, towers, and kill enemies

Thus:

- a tank should keep the mobs off the party members and thus not decide to dps instead of tanking, just like a healer is supposed to heal and not tank or dps, if you decide otherwise because you play the way you want to, you screw other people up
- if you decide to just do whatever you want in a bg, instead of trying to go for the objectives (cap flag, tower, ...) then you ignore the very basic mechanics of the game, and you screw it up for others

For both mechanics / roles there is gear, spells and stats. And for each talent spec / class there is a right (+excellent) and wrong (+terrible) way to do it. If you decide just to ignore all that and play the way you want in a group, then you screw it up for others. If others in this group tell you that you are doing something wrong (and due to that give them a worse time), the only sensible thing to do is listen to it, consider it and see how you can fill your role in that group better next time.

And as a boxer your responsibility in a group is even bigger. But I think that's been explained enough in this topic. If you want to ignore certain facts and blame others for criticizing, and rather put the focus on how they say something rather than on what they are saying, I believe this discussion is kinda pointless.

I see your points and while they are valid they are idealistic viewpoints. All whiners have idealistic viewpoints, I remember so well from my days of Counterstrike on public servers where people STILL TO THIS DAY complain about flashbangs (team flash), sniper rifles, camping, teamblocking and everything else - according to them its not their own fault for failing to adjust or the games fault these features are in the game but the other players fault because they overuse or abuse these features.

The idealistic viewpoint you have enables you to complain forever and in all games because there is no possible way to solve any of it.

Thus you are left with TWO options:
1. Complain about everything annoying for the rest of your gaming life and being annoying to those ufortunate enough to share your chat channels
2. Just deal with the fact that players will do things in their own ways and no amount of complaining or whining can change it. If its not possible to change why should you spend any energy on it?

Dont get me wrong, Im not really meaning its RIGHT for other players to do stupid things to counter the objectives. Im saying since you cant STOP them from doing that its wrong for you to care so much about what they do. Just let them do whatever they do because they will do it anyway - the only thing that is RIGHT for you is to have fun regardless of other people passively or actively attempting to spoil your fun.

The realistic viewpoint is more in the direction of blaming the game and not the player, if its possible to be lame then people are going to be lame because the game allows them to.
Blizzard actually knows this and thats why they implement features such as dungeon vote kick - its fully possible for a tank to go about dpsing but because the game has a vote kick feature you can expect him to do his job or just replace him. Without vote kick you would have to expect the tank and other party members to sometimes be dicks who do their best in making sure no one finishes the instance by causing wipes and pulling adds etc.

So yeah, you can fight your crusade and claim you are right because other players are doing the wrong things but I distinguish between right and wrong as being smart and stupid choices and thats why I disagree with you. Since your crusade and whining can go on forever and the players that annoy you will not change then its a wasted effort and accomplishes nothing - waste of time and just stupid to do and therefor not worth doing. It might even spoil some of your fun.
I totally agree that you should complain and whine tons on the Blizzard Suggestion Forum - that will probably help as if enough people complain there features such as Dungeon Vote Kick or Report Player AFK will be added. But whining in chat channels in game is just annoying to other players and is good for nothing..

I mean like, what are you really trying to achieve by complaining? Do you think it will help and that one day you will no longer have to complain any longer?

*curious*

valkry, I think Ive been mixing up you and zenga, Im sorry I didnt intend to shove words in your mouth.

[zenga]

I see your points and while they are valid they are idealistic viewpoints. All whiners have idealistic viewpoints, ...
The idealistic viewpoint you have enables you to complain forever and in all games because there is no possible way to solve any of it.

You define pointing out the obvious, telling someone what he is doing wrong, ... as whining and complaining. I find that pretty harsh to be honest. My perception is totally different. Of course that can be done in multiple ways, but there is also a normal way to say that (don't confuse the normal way with the examples I gave a few posts ago, that was to point out my perception of verbal harassment ).

By telling people what they are doing wrong in a normal way, my experience is that it leads more often to better group performance than to flame wars. You'd be surprised about the amount of people that have little to no BG experience and come in and have no clue what to do. Telling them they should stand on a demo as a caster and that they can't take damage that way is a good example.

Given my experience with pointing out the obvious and how most players react, I won't refrain from doing that in the future. The good amount of players that react positive to it is worth it. Not because I'm idealistic, but because it increases my winning chances. And that's not venting my frustration, I don't have any feelings when I do that. And those that tell me to stfu, sure I don't care about those, I just ignore them, not to teach them a lesson or get them frustrated, just cause I don't care. That being said, I think every other 4-5 bg's I may a comment, not like I'm defending those adhd guys who spam bg chat all the time.

You generalize things to easy/fast imo. Both the perception of whiners and their motives. Long story short: some players just point something out to increase their winning chances, nothing else.

[Pycno]

zenga, If you are a bg leader or dungeon guide or have experience and know the best course of action in a dungeon or battleground then of course there will be nothing wrong in offering guidance and suggestion. It may be hard to reach out to a group of strangers whom you may only see for a few minutes and with only text based communication there is not a whole lot of potential for good leadership but some do listen anyway and yes it will increase chances of winning. As long as one do demand others do your bidding and punish those who dont then you are contributing to the team and allthough there is a very fine line between this and pointless complaints/whine/frustration there is a line, if you are among those that dont cross it then all my criticism towards you is totally unjustified.

Im fully open to the possibility of me misunderstanding exactly what it is you mean as Im judging you solely on a few forum posts. It sounds less and less like you are actually complaining.. If people are in fact positive to your comments then I probably got a wrong impression of you, if I did then I apologize for smearing you as you are then going forward as a good example that whiners should learn from.

BTW, I dont care if players complain/whine through whispers - it bothers no one then but the person receiving it and he/she can just ignore if they wish. Its the ideal place to vent out frustration with the retarded players :)

[Lpwned]

Amen Pycno!

If I could have your attitude my game play would surely be more enjoyable. Hell, if I could take that attitude toward more things in life, my life would surely be more enjoyable. I have been boxing for a few months (Playing WoW on an off for about 2 years) and it’s just recently that the hate comments started pissing me off. :mad:

The ones that get me are the people on my faction and server than run up to you in a city, trash talk /s or /y and then log off while I’m just standing there doing nothing.

I’m 20 and work at one of the top high tech companies in the world (No not as the janitor lol), I race Super Sport bikes on the weekends and have a beautiful girlfriend. Hate comments from little spit $#%& kids calling me a “nerd” or for having “No life” and a “waste of money” (Of which I find incredibly hypocritical and ironic for a WoW player to say to another WoW player) should not bug me.

So why do they? Why do I even read them? (Rhetorical)

What I would really like is a ‘hate’ filter. One that automatically replies with Alemi’s AWSOME comment, “You sound cute, can we be friends” [ <- I’m using that from now on btw :P ] and blocks the comment from my screen. :D

[Kedash00]

/cast ressurect [target=dead thread]

[Zappy]

This is more efficient:

/cast ressurect [@dead thread]

[Kedash00]

ah, i stand corrected

[Kromtor]

i cut

[Mercbeast]

How do you guys handle all the hate? Sometimes when I'm just doing spectacular in a bg, while the others aren't I always get the blame for the loss. Some call me useless, retarded, terrible etc. Now usually it's the ones dying the most who complain, but sometimes, it's not. What is it, that makes them hate you even when your seriuosly doing all the work? Is it jealousy, tactics, the fact u take up 5 spots.

I ran ruins of Gilneas last weekend. I had 6 guys bind camped at the GY. I had 93 honor kills, zero deaths. At the end of the game I asked why we were losing. They blamed me for losing. I informed them that if they can't win 5v4 that the problem is on their end. The rest of the guys in the BG had like 20 HK's and were unable to take WW or LH from the couple guys defending each.

The reality is probably that we had bots, I didn't check since I went straight to LH killed 6 guys there and then pushed into the GY and kept killing them each respawn wave.

Ultimately the reality is that people will ALWAYS look to scapegoat and a multiboxer is the most convenient one, even if you are pulling more than your fair share of the load.

I really don't give a rats ass about complainers I just ignore them. Most people who play wow are bad at the game anyways, they should look at themselves, or the rampant botting Horde side before they point the finger at someone else.