Holy crap -- PvP changes

[Mosg2]

From mmo-champion:

Rating requirements on PvP Gear
The only item with a meaningful rating requirement is the heroic raid ilvl equivalent weapon (the 2200 weapon). However, unlike the LK seasons there is also a weapon equivalent to the normal raid tier ilvl that has no rating requirement.

All of the other items with rating requirements (ie: the set pieces) have the exact same stats as the ones without rating requirements, they're a free upgrade and just have a different texture color so you get a little bit of visual distinction for having a high rating (no gameplay advantage).

Can anyone say wow? :)

[Mokoi]

that's good news for people like me who suck at PvP and have never been above 1900 lol.

[Zub]

incoming massive arena players qq?

[Mosg2]

Well, there's still the titles and the 2200-equivalent weapons to distinguish people I guess :) I'm excited about this. It means they're seriously gating how many points you can get per week--It makes it easier to have multiple teams and not feel spread thin.

[Eloxy]

This is the biggest pile of bs I've heard in a good while. Rewarding good and dedicated arena/bg play with colours? What the hell is going on..what the hell. So any casual mommaboy can have just as good gear as a pure dedicated pvper?

The one thing that draws me to do better in arena and have fun is to aim for better gear. And having eg shoulders makes you stand a bit out of the crowd. But the colour thing is just as little apealing to me as achievements. They don't matter. Atleast pveers get hardmodes and can have better gear.

I think this change is fail fail fail.

[Zub]

incoming massive arena players qq?


This is the biggest pile of bs I've heard in a good while. Rewarding good and dedicated arena/bg play with colours? What the hell is going on..what the hell. So any casual mommaboy can have just as good gear as a pure dedicated pvper?

The one thing that draws me to do better in arena and have fun is to aim for better gear. And having eg shoulders makes you stand a bit out of the crowd. But the colour thing is just as little apealing to me as achievements. They don't matter. Atleast pveers get hardmodes and can have better gear.

I think this change is fail fail fail.

knew it was coming :-)

[ILikeTwins]

Are you sure they just haven't added the rating requirements yet? They used to not have rating requirements a few seasons ago and said that it was a big mistake so they added the ratings. This would be a complete 180 degree change in direction for them so it would be a bit surprising if they actually did that.

[Littleburst]

This is the biggest pile of bs I've heard in a good while. Rewarding good and dedicated arena/bg play with colours? What the hell is going on..what the hell. So any casual mommaboy can have just as good gear as a pure dedicated pvper?

The one thing that draws me to do better in arena and have fun is to aim for better gear. And having eg shoulders makes you stand a bit out of the crowd. But the colour thing is just as little apealing to me as achievements. They don't matter. Atleast pveers get hardmodes and can have better gear.

I think this change is fail fail fail.

Allthough i'm not really into arena i do agree. Simply because i have full wrathfull means that i have a big advantage over the average pug in furious/relentless gear. If everyone is gonna get full wrath then pve off items will be the only items that will improve a player's pvpcapabilities.

It would be a bit fail indeed.

[outdrsyguy1]

There was a statement that the current system in live wow was not working for a lot of people. Having rated requirements tended to let the highly skilled people get gear quickly and then keep others from getting it. You end up with a large group of people that can never get a pvp weapon (1800 isn't exactly easy, maybe 20% get there?) and anything but those terrible wintergrasp shoulders. The current virtually no rating requirements are what the intend to implement. There's also a craftable starter entry level pvp set that will be upgraded every season (the recipe will change to better stats).
Blizz stated higher skilled people will still get it faster due to getting more points and such.
Even with PVE raiders, with the icc buff at 30%, most folks are getting the high end raiding gear, it just takes longer. So really they are aligning pvp with pve and also allowing average joe blow to eventually get decent pvp gear. Which I think is a welcome change.
I personally hated being someone who didn't raid so I was stuck with a crappy 232 weap at best vs all these arena teams with 264+ weaps. It's a HUGE difference.

I like the change, i'm looking forward to it, I think it's a positive thing. If your already better at pvp, why should you be rewarded with gear that lets you wtfpwn others without trying, that's only fun for a small percentage of people. You still get to look cool and showoff your titles and armor/weapon.

[zenga]

On equal gear level good players will still win from the bad players. I totally don't care about arena myself, besides the occasional night every other week with 2 friend to play some 3v3.. But I do enjoy BG's a lot, and I play them a lot. Obviously the dedicated arena players has an edge over the non arena players in BG's. So even out that difference is for a player like me a welcome thing.

However just having different colors as the only 'achievement' for arena seems a bit stupid as well. I was thinking/hoping they would keep the different tiers of pvp gear, but make them wider available. Either through arena, rated bg's, or by the highest tier raid emblems.

[Eloxy]

IMO blizz could just go ; ok, pve gear is obtained throug daily emblems, when you complete raids and hardmodes you can change colour on the gear. Yep that sounds realy fun don't it? No to me ;) blizz is heading down the wrong road tbh. Yeah I'm not a casual, but I'm not a hardcore player either.

[smokebum]

Hmm... interesting change, I wonder if they're gonna eventually have heroics drop same gear as raids with an inferior color..... or maybe just get rid of gear all together and just have our outfit change colors since people who are good at PVE/PVP will do better anyways.

Well in any case I'm sure things will work out in the end.

[Kicksome]

This is how the arena tourney is. Everyone is on a level playing field, and the skilled arena players are the ones that win, not the ones who managed to get the best gear.

However, I have a feeling people will use some of the raid gear to their advantage. e.g. Shadowmourne (or whatever the cat version of the top gear is)

So now all the sudden, we're back to season 1-3, where if you want an advantage in PvP, you need to raid.

[Kicksome]

I also have a feeling some of these changes they put in place just to mix things up and keep it interesting. It's probably not right or wrong, it's just different, and probably keeps things from getting stale. It would be pretty boring for a lot of people to have a repeat of last season, and the season before that.

[Eloxy]

Hmm... interesting change, I wonder if they're gonna eventually have heroics drop same gear as raids with an inferior color..... or maybe just get rid of gear all together and just have our outfit change colors since people who are good at PVE/PVP will do better anyways.

Well in any case I'm sure things will work out in the end.

My point exactly. If everyone have the same gear anyway why the he'll have it? Instead of having cool new gear that will improve your character, you get colours, achievements, mounts, titles, pets and noncombat stuff. Big QQ from me if this hits live.

[Svpernova09]

I totally understand what Eloxy is saying. But when it comes to Arena,


There was a statement that the current system in live wow was not working for a lot of people. Having rated requirements tended to let the highly skilled people get gear quickly and then keep others from getting it. You end up with a large group of people that can never get a pvp weapon (1800 isn't exactly easy, maybe 20% get there?) and anything but those terrible wintergrasp shoulders.

This is the exact case. I've been playing serious arena for about 2 months now. I came in VERY late in the season and I'm probably not the greatest arena player, but when my 5s team isn't getting 1300 rated teams, we get 2k+ rated teams and we get destroyed. The teams that are our MMR (1750-1850) are either Full wrathful T2 wep teams that are just carrying someone, or trying a different comp. It's the people who have the gear that are pushing my team, who is mostly full relent + 232/PvE weps down and keeping us away from our 1800 weps. It's not skill when a 4 DPS team can global one of my teammates.

[heyaz]

I think you should just enter a bg or dungeon and grab the gear you want off a rack

Since there's obviously going to be no reward for skill or even time spent grinding.

[Svpernova09]

I think you should just enter a bg or dungeon and grab the gear you want off a rack

Since there's obviously going to be no reward for skill or even time spent grinding.


If top tier weapons, mounts, titles aren't enough reward for you, I heard the lego MMO is coming out soon.


/goes to look outside.


Nope, sky is not falling.

[smokebum]

This is the exact case. I've been playing serious arena for about 2 months now. I came in VERY late in the season and I'm probably not the greatest arena player, but when my 5s team isn't getting 1300 rated teams, we get 2k+ rated teams and we get destroyed. The teams that are our MMR (1750-1850) are either Full wrathful T2 wep teams that are just carrying someone, or trying a different comp. It's the people who have the gear that are pushing my team, who is mostly full relent + 232/PvE weps down and keeping us away from our 1800 weps. It's not skill when a 4 DPS team can global one of my teammates.

I came back in the middle of the season so I pretty much went through the same thing. I started with deadly gear, then furious, then relentless, and now wrathful. There was a progression of gear upgrades and trying out different things to advance in ranking.

In PVP reaching a certain ranking is like beating a hard boss and just because people are unable to reach a certain point doesn't necessary mean you should get rid of that point. It'll be like saying "well u guys are having a problem beating this boss, so I'll tell you what just keep grinding the mobs for couple weeks and I'll give u the drops from this boss you cannot beat"


It's not skill when a 4 DPS team can global one of my teammates.

Lol I'm sure alot of non-boxers say this about boxers and how it takes no skill, but as most here would know its not that easy and u can probably count the number of teams that have reached 2k with two hands and 2.2k+ with one hand.

Oh an I'm full wrathful and have had a team destroy one of my guys before I could even blow bloodlust. Now that is some coordination and skill on their part.


Atleast for me, removing ranking req is like removing all the bosses for a raid. Then it becomes just a grind fest for points which is very disappointing, but I'll still continue to do it in the name of killing more alliance. :)

[Zappy]

It's not skill when a 4 DPS team can global one of my teammates.

That's a pretty funny statement considering that's what our multiboxing arena teams are all about. :D

It'll be an interesting season to say the least. After working my ass off to get two teams over 1800, there is definitely a great sense of accomplishment, but I also feel the pain of my newest team as the flaws are very highlighted in the system. I can't tell you how many 1400 rated teams we get beat down that have 2-3 fully decked out players carrying the other guys. While it's not impossible to move up, it can be incredibly frustrating as the MMR system is so flawed. You may fight a legitimate 1700 rated team where you have a good battle because everybody is on par for gear with each other, then the very next match be playing a low rated team that's carrying people that annihilate you so quickly. Our worst loss last night was a 1250 MMR rated team where 3 of their members have the 2200 weapons. Good luck against those comps.

A few weeks back, I was playing my DK/ret team and got 6-7 free wins off a team where only one guy showed up to play. He was all alone dancing, and I was shocked cause he had shoulders. I looked up his team afterwards and saw the team rating was around 1700, however, I was beating them as if they were a 13-1400 rated team. I didn't think much of it at the time until I faced them again later where all 5 showed up, and blew up my entire team rather quickly. What I found was that when only 1 person actually enters the arena, thee team MMR posts a lot lower than where the team rating is at, so when you beat them, they don't lose many points in their team rating, but it still drives their team MMR down a lot faster than their actual team rating. What's worse, is when you do face their entire team, their MMR is low enough where you'll get slaughtered in points.

At least with next season, you won't have better geared players keeping you from getting better gear.

[Eloxy]

If top tier weapons, mounts, titles aren't enough reward for you, I heard the lego MMO is coming out soon.


/goes to look outside.


Nope, sky is not falling.

No skyisfalling over this at all, it's. The fact that wow is evolving into sumthing Thats not the game I started to play. Maby you like mounts and titles, great for you nothing wrong with that. But I think I speak for the majority of the pvp/arena comunity when I say that getting 1800 rating isn't cool just cuz u get 1800 rating. It's the fact that you've worked hard for and earned a new uppgrade you can be proud of and enhances you character. Achies pets mounts are fun and all but it wouldn't be cool if u beat deathwing on harmode and you get "drums" a deathwing minipet to show off!!

Not fun just...not fun :(:(

[Svpernova09]

I came back in the middle of the season so I pretty much went through the same thing. I started with deadly gear, then furious, then relentless, and now wrathful. There was a progression of gear upgrades and trying out different things to advance in ranking.

In PVP reaching a certain ranking is like beating a hard boss and just because people are unable to reach a certain point doesn't necessary mean you should get rid of that point. It'll be like saying "well u guys are having a problem beating this boss, so I'll tell you what just keep grinding the mobs for couple weeks and I'll give u the drops from this boss you cannot beat"



Lol I'm sure alot of non-boxers say this about boxers and how it takes no skill, but as most here would know its not that easy and u can probably count the number of teams that have reached 2k with two hands and 2.2k+ with one hand.

Oh an I'm full wrathful and have had a team destroy one of my guys before I could even blow bloodlust. Now that is some coordination and skill on their part.


Atleast for me, removing ranking req is like removing all the bosses for a raid. Then it becomes just a grind fest for points which is very disappointing, but I'll still continue to do it in the name of killing more alliance. :)

I still disagree, especially when the top 100 5's teams in US Bloodlust are 2360+ If you're in a BG that has only 5 2.2k rated teams, you're in a terribly shitty BG

[Svpernova09]

No skyisfalling over this at all, it's. The fact that wow is evolving into sumthing Thats not the game I started to play. Maby you like mounts and titles, great for you nothing wrong with that. But I think I speak for the majority of the pvp/arena comunity when I say that getting 1800 rating isn't cool just cuz u get 1800 rating. It's the fact that you've worked hard for and earned a new uppgrade you can be proud of and enhances you character. Achies pets mounts are fun and all but it wouldn't be cool if u beat deathwing on harmode and you get "drums" a deathwing minipet to show off!!

Not fun just...not fun :(:(

I agree, WoW is evolving, as it always has. Even season to season it's been a different game for most classes. I do like mounts and titles and such. You can armory any of my toons. I've never been a hard mode instance clearer, I've never been glad.

I just don't think rating requirements for your gear is the answer. They already do gear color reskins. All of the T10, you can tell at a glance if the person is 251, 264, or 277. I imagine the same will be for the arena sets. I understand getting to 1800 is an accomplishment. I'm currently clawing my way there myself. I may make it, I may not. If I don't make it I didn't have any less fun getting there. I just don't like the idea of being held back by gear when I can't get the gear I need because I'm being held back.

In PvE you've always been able to farm your points daily. You could be in a terrible ICC guild and still gear up via frost badges. Hell, T9 and T10 you could get an entire 5pc set just from grinding heroics. These arena changes are just bringing PvP gearing in line with PvE.

[smokebum]

I still disagree, especially when the top 100 5's teams in US Bloodlust are 2360+ If you're in a BG that has only 5 2.2k rated teams, you're in a terribly shitty BG

If there are more higher ranked team, wouldn't that mean there are more teams playing? So u don't have to fight the same team over and over and get farmed?

Or even better yet, fighting people around ur ranking instead of fighting low ranked teams that are geared for 1 point wins and 22 point loses.

I don't know how most feel but I would love to have more high ranked teams, instead of the low ranked teams that got their t2 weapon from 3s and now doing 5s who take me for 20 points.

[Vecter]

It's not only about arena anymore, it will be about arena AND rated BG's. Keeping rating on gear could potentially cause a pretty big advantage in a rated BG so taking away the rating could lessen gear as a reason for a potential win or loss. You will still need your skill, teamwork and knowledge of comps. Plus you still have to get the points and we do not know all of their plans for that yet.

[Mosg2]

I understand what you're saying Eloxy, but as Svpernova said the system as it's set up now just doesn't function--If you were able to get a high rating early and get geared you've got a huge advantage over someone that started even a month later than you. It should be skill=gear, not igotto2200first=gear.

Lets not forget that you *still* get a better weapon than everyone else and you *still* will have either a BG or Arena rating to show that you're "skilled".

[Svpernova09]

If there are more higher ranked team, wouldn't that mean there are more teams playing? So u don't have to fight the same team over and over and get farmed?

Or even better yet, fighting people around ur ranking instead of fighting low ranked teams that are geared for 1 point wins and 22 point loses.

I don't know how most feel but I would love to have more high ranked teams, instead of the low ranked teams that got their t2 weapon from 3s and now doing 5s who take me for 20 points.


On Monday nights, 5pm -10pm PST(the best time my team has found that there are the most teams queing) My arena team can do about 30-45 matches. In those 30-45, We'll see the same team at least 4 - 5 teams. Some we'll even get back to back. And out of those matches we'll see *very* few teams within 200 points of our MMR. Most teams we get are 2100+ or sub 1500.

[Alemi]

I still disagree, especially when the top 100 5's teams in US Bloodlust are 2360+ If you're in a BG that has only 5 2.2k rated teams, you're in a terribly shitty BG

Another flaw in the PVP system design. Retaliation is a terribly shitty BG. At 1500, i'm in the top 225. But what's the incentive for teams to play that are already 2k+? None. Get your rating on the 5s team in the first few weeks and then get your points from 3s to get all your gear.

Granted this is by far the longest season, ever. But, there's absolutely no incentive to continue playing arena. I like the change of the rating requirements being removed. I don't want to fight teams that undergear me, or overgear me.

I do agree with you that rating requirements removal isn't a big deal (and yes, I've been doing arenas since S2 boxing along with Smokey).


In PVP reaching a certain ranking is like beating a hard boss and just because people are unable to reach a certain point doesn't necessary mean you should get rid of that point. It'll be like saying "well u guys are having a problem beating this boss, so I'll tell you what just keep grinding the mobs for couple weeks and I'll give u the drops from this boss you cannot beat"

This would be an applicable analogy only if said raid boss was consistently getting harder, gaining new abilities and gear, which is not the case. Or if you HAD to beat a certain team to advance your rating, which is not the case. Apples to oranges.

[Svpernova09]

Another flaw in the PVP system design. Retaliation is a terribly shitty BG. At 1500, i'm in the top 225. But what's the incentive for teams to play that are already 2k+? None. Get your rating on the 5s team in the first few weeks and then get your points from 3s to get all your gear.

Granted this is by far the longest season, ever. But, there's absolutely no incentive to continue playing arena. I like the change of the rating requirements being removed. I don't want to fight teams that undergear me, or overgear me.

I do agree with you that rating requirements removal isn't a big deal (and yes, I've been doing arenas since S2 boxing along with Smokey).



This would be an applicable analogy only if said raid boss was consistently getting harder, gaining new abilities and gear, which is not the case. Or if you HAD to beat a certain team to advance your rating, which is not the case. Apples to oranges.

I agree with the lack of incentive, my biggest gripe since I've been doing arenas the past 2 months is the lack of diversity in teams we get matched up against. Seems like any given night there is only a handful of teams playing.

[smokebum]

On Monday nights, 5pm -10pm PST(the best time my team has found that there are the most teams queing) My arena team can do about 30-45 matches. In those 30-45, We'll see the same team at least 4 - 5 teams. Some we'll even get back to back. And out of those matches we'll see *very* few teams within 200 points of our MMR. Most teams we get are 2100+ or sub 1500.

I play all different days and times cuz of my schedule, but I will say I've been in que for more then 30 mins just to lose 15-20 points on a Monday. Every time we lose, I pray to god for less then a 10 point lose, cuz most of the time it is way more. Also have had ton of teams that were geared giving us 2 points for a win.

Although I've never played in a high populated bg, I always assumed it would be alot easier with more teams around my rating playing.

[smokebum]

I think the thing that bothers me the most about this is it feels like they are taking skill out of the equation and replacing it with time. No matter how screwed up ur comp or skill lvl is, u will get the item u want in time. Ofcourse minus the super cool color.

[Alemi]

I agree with the lack of incentive, my biggest gripe since I've been doing arenas the past 2 months is the lack of diversity in teams we get matched up against. Seems like any given night there is only a handful of teams playing.

Same thing for me. I played, probably 50 games last night (nothing else to do) and probably faced 15 teams. Of those 15 teams, a number of full wrathful rerolls or MMRs that were SO out of line with mine it was insane. (ex: 1600 MMR vs. 2100 MMR).

When the gates open and I see 2 warriors with 40k health and an ele shaman with 34k, I just fetal position.

[Svpernova09]

Same thing for me. I played, probably 50 games last night (nothing else to do) and probably faced 15 teams. Of those 15 teams, a number of full wrathful rerolls or MMRs that were SO out of line with mine it was insane. (ex: 1600 MMR vs. 2100 MMR).

When the gates open and I see 2 warriors with 40k health and an ele shaman with 34k, I just fetal position.


rofl! I can definetely relate. It never fails, we can tell in the first 20 seconds what the teams MMR is and be pretty accurate. The game for us then is to see how well we do against them.

[Mosg2]

@smokebum:

I disagree. I don't see this as taking skill out of the equation--Rather, it puts everyone on the same gear level initially and says "Go forth and kill each other." Then the most skilled people get to the top and get the unique colored armor, titles, and the best weapons.

[smokebum]

@smokebum:

I disagree. I don't see this as taking skill out of the equation--Rather, it puts everyone on the same gear level initially and says "Go forth and kill each other." Then the most skilled people get to the top and get the unique colored armor, titles, and the best weapons.

Hmm.. In some ways u may be right but from what I can see in this post, the people who are for the change are the ones who are basically saying "I cannot get to 1800 to get my weapon so it'll be better if we get rid of the req.". no?

Edit: I think I have gotten myself into one of those never ending forum battles. I'll concede before this thread goes to 100 pages.

[Kicksome]

I think a BIG motivation, if not the main reason, a lot of people do arena is for gear.

So if you can't get special gear by doing arena, I think arenas are going to be "less full".

I doubt I'd do arena just for fun. I've always done it for the gear. And I enjoy using that gear in BGs to pwn noobs.

[Fat Tire]

unique colored armor.



I lol'd.


/old man voice

Back in my day.....

We pvp'd for the fun of it, we didnt care about titles,gear or anything. It was all about defending Southshore and Tauren Mill.....for weeks on end.

Damn Hippies!



Edit: Arena =/-= skill. I have boosted people to 1800 in 2s this season. I have wintraded up to glad on nightfall bg 2700ish(3s) also this season (I think at the time it was 2680 /shrug). The people running around with arena gear and rating doesnt always mean skill, proven by having 1800 weapon and I could beat them naked(lock ;p). I hate using the word skill in conjuctiction with a video game but whatever. People play for their own personal reasons. Personally, I am happy to see the changes and yet sad to see my gold making venture crushed. If anything the ladder is broke and you can bet the rated bg ladder will be broke also, play for yourself not for standing in org/dal/if hoping people inspect you because you think youre something special.

[Alemi]

rofl! I can definetely relate. It never fails, we can tell in the first 20 seconds what the teams MMR is and be pretty accurate. The game for us then is to see how well we do against them.

Exactly. Some games last night, I just knew from their positioning and such that it was going to be rough. Gates open, 3 in stealth - how many boomkins will I have to deal with and will they typhoon me as I heal over their lolstarfalls.


So if you can't get special gear by doing arena, I think arenas are going to be "less full". This will probably be true if they still keep arenas BG specific as they had planned. I suspect they will eventually take them, like battlegrounds, to continent battlegroups.


Hmm.. In some ways u may be right but from what I can see in this post, the people who are for the change are the ones who are basically saying "I cannot get to 1800 to get my weapon so it'll be better if we get rid of the req.". no?You know I've been 2k+ before my absence, so you know that's not true. Fat cow (not an insult, btw, he and I are friends since we play on the same server - so he knows that's a term of endearment) :)

What I think needs to be said, this "gear equality" isn't going to come overnight, guys. You will only get blue quality gear from honor points (battlegrounds) and the epic stuff from conquest points (rated battlegrounds/arena). Scrubs - and I hate the term - will still not get their gear in the same fashion as before, but slower. This creates an equal footing for people who A) don't level as fast, or B) start cataclysm late. This'll prevent them from being cock blocked by teams that greatly outgear them or teams that refuse to queue.

What I see, are a lot of people who think that their PVP skill comes from them outgearing their opponents and are afraid to have them in equal (NOT BETTER) gear. Correct me if I'm wrong...

Keep in mind too, that Cata is shaping up to take PVP back to TBC days. Slower, more calculated damage, and FAR less crit (<10%). Adding in the fact that there won't be a 30% buff in raid instances that allow every casual joe schmo to obtain 25 man ICC gear and the fact that raid instances will, hopefully, again be difficult (how many people really saw pugs for SSC back in the day?).

If you look at one change - without looking at the big picture - I can see Chicken Little syndrome, for sure. When you compile all the changes together? Not a big deal. Really.

Just be thankful we're not going back to honor decay days to get PVP gear. Then I'd chime in with some qq.

Edit: Forgot to say - rated battlegrounds? NOT EVEN on beta yet. We don't know the scoring system; I'm going to wager that it's a 0 net point gain for a loss. So until these are out and that's confirmed, the only way to get conquest points is by the daily random which give you ~20 conquest points (iirc). So, after 80 days of doing the daily you can get 2 pieces of gear at current pricing.

[Whowantstoknow]

IMO blizz could just go ; ok, pve gear is obtained throug daily emblems, when you complete raids and hardmodes you can change colour on the gear. Yep that sounds realy fun don't it? No to me ;) blizz is heading down the wrong road tbh. Yeah I'm not a casual, but I'm not a hardcore player either.

Thats what they do now. Good players get frost badges and frost badge level gear much faster than the bad players. The goal is everyone gets the gear its just gonna take the bad players a lot longer in both pvp and pve. I almost guarantee come 4.0 everyone will be able to faceroll even heroic modes.

[Mosg2]

@smokebum:
Not trying to start a war :) Just sharings points of view.

@all:
I think Alemi makes some good points. The one big thing I'll add is that Blizz stated they were going to merge the Arena and BG ques so that every single person in a particular server type (IE, North America, China, Oceanic, and Euro) will be playing against each other. If this goes through then things are going to be much better--Even if only 10% of the people that do arenas now do arenas post Cata you'll still have instant ques AND you'll probably never face teams more than 5 MMR off of you. I assume the same will be true for rated BG's.

Overall I like it.

[pinotnoir]

Equal gear for everyone and then see who is actually good or who is being helped by gear advantage. I say let everyone have the same gear so skill is the deciding factor not gear.

[Eloxy]

Thats what they do now. Good players get frost badges and frost badge level gear much faster than the bad players. The goal is everyone gets the gear its just gonna take the bad players a lot longer in both pvp and pve. I almost guarantee come 4.0 everyone will be able to faceroll even heroic modes.

Wrong, the gear has a scaling ilevel and stats. Meaning a warr with "yellow" has lower dps than the warr in "red".
But still this is altso fail imo. I'm oldschool I know, but I realy liked the way gear was distributed in tbc. Not to fast and not to slow, but to gain the good gear you had to earn it. And no lame hardmode "buying more time b4 people Get bored" but thats pve;)

[Whowantstoknow]

Wrong, the gear has a scaling ilevel and stats. Meaning a warr with "yellow" has lower dps than the warr in "red".
But still this is altso fail imo. I'm oldschool I know, but I realy liked the way gear was distributed in tbc. Not to fast and not to slow, but to gain the good gear you had to earn it. And no lame hardmode "buying more time b4 people Get bored" but thats pve;)

Im not getting into an argument over this but the new PvP model is like the current 10 man progression model. Remember that in CATA 10man and 25 man gear will be the same.

You can get ilevel 264 gear from frost badges crafted and BoEs meaning that there is virtually no upgrades over badge loot in ICC10 normal and the heroic mode gear is equivalent in most cases. The only ilevel upgrade (ignoring for a moment there is not an ilevel264 badge item for every slot) is heroic mode LK weapons same as the proposed PvP model.

10 man Raiders will get ilevel264 gear faster than those running heroics.

[Mosg2]

Once of the things I like about this the most -- for boxers -- Is that it makes any ole' team you like to be competitive. You want to run 4x Warlocks in rated BG's? Done. Grab a healer friend and have at it. You'll eventually get to the point where it's about your skill and your teammates vice "Ah man, I'm cockblocked because I can't get the 1800 weapons." I like that a lot.

[outdrsyguy1]

Once of the things I like about this the most -- for boxers -- Is that it makes any ole' team you like to be competitive. You want to run 4x Warlocks in rated BG's? Done. Grab a healer friend and have at it. You'll eventually get to the point where it's about your skill and your teammates vice "Ah man, I'm cockblocked because I can't get the 1800 weapons." I like that a lot.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. I play arena for fun rarely, mostly just to get gear so I can have fun in bg's. Arena is really not that fun, it's full of more strategy on when to que and what comp you have then actually playing each other. And then there's praying to the gods after you got manhandled that it wasn't some up and coming team boosting people which just stole 20+ points from you after you won the last 4 games at 5 points a win...

I think it's exactly like the current pve model. You win more, you get gear faster, ie you clear icc each week, you gear up quick. Eventually everyone gets gear and sees the instance but some just get it faster. That method is INFINITELY more fun to me because I can play and enjoy it. If i lose, so what, there's always next match, in the current system it's a total heart breaker. You end up pissed at the end of the night because you had 4 bad losses and dropped 80 points which took you 2 weeks to get back.

I agree with blizz that the way elite players are rewarded just emphasizes the fact and makes it even easier for them to wtfpwn you. I've seen the difference in my 1300 rated/geared team and my 2000 rated/geared same team. If I come up on a team that isn't atleast 50% full wrathful, total faceroll. I could put my cat on the keyboard and still maybe lose 2 guys at most before I win. That's not skill, that's just flaunting the fact you got gear and are keeping them from getting it by stomping them into the ground so you can get even better gear to stomp them harder with.

I do like reward for skilled pvp, but the current state is just too broad a spectrum.

I'm really looking forward to rated bg's, I think they will be much more fun than arena and allow you really enjoy winning and even losing with the new system to be implemented.

[Littleburst]

It seems that people who had a harder time getting 1,8k like the new change. People who didn't dislike it. I tend to compare it to PVE. The better you are, the better gear you get. Now, this hardly goes for arena. Only the weapon. I also don't think there is skill involved getting 1,8k depending on setup. Almost every class has a faceroll setup. Coordinating CC/swaps =/= skill.

I do think there's a major problem at the moment with people who start arena now and have no gear at all. It is indeed horrible to say atleast. Trying to fix this is indeed something that should be done. But giving everyone the same gear, with only time as a factor is to weak imo. Then i want a foreign dislodged object from frost badges aswell please(can be non heroic, so raiders get their "extra" heroic one). Comes down to the same thing really.

[Boylston]

IMO blizz could just go ; ok, pve gear is obtained throug daily emblems, when you complete raids and hardmodes you can change colour on the gear. Yep that sounds realy fun don't it? No to me ;) blizz is heading down the wrong road tbh. Yeah I'm not a casual, but I'm not a hardcore player either.

As someone who does raid, I kinda like this suggestion.

One of the issues we faced in WotLK is that our guild was a 10-man only guild. The 25-man guilds were able to stumble through the 25-man dungeons and pick up such better gear than us and their "off night" 10-man raids were consistently ahead of us in terms of progression or achievement/hardmode kills.

I know they're "fixing" that problem in a different way, but equalizing the stats on the gear for PvE would seperate the women from the girls and still provide some bragging-rights in-game to signal the best players from the average players.

Setting arena up like IROC does have some advantages. Everyone drives the same car, and you can truly brag about driver skill when you win.

[Vecter]

I agree wholeheartedly with this. I play arena for fun rarely, mostly just to get gear so I can have fun in bg's. Arena is really not that fun, it's full of more strategy on when to que and what comp you have then actually playing each other. And then there's praying to the gods after you got manhandled that it wasn't some up and coming team boosting people which just stole 20+ points from you after you won the last 4 games at 5 points a win...

I think it's exactly like the current pve model. You win more, you get gear faster, ie you clear icc each week, you gear up quick. Eventually everyone gets gear and sees the instance but some just get it faster. That method is INFINITELY more fun to me because I can play and enjoy it. If i lose, so what, there's always next match, in the current system it's a total heart breaker. You end up pissed at the end of the night because you had 4 bad losses and dropped 80 points which took you 2 weeks to get back.

I agree with blizz that the way elite players are rewarded just emphasizes the fact and makes it even easier for them to wtfpwn you. I've seen the difference in my 1300 rated/geared team and my 2000 rated/geared same team. If I come up on a team that isn't atleast 50% full wrathful, total faceroll. I could put my cat on the keyboard and still maybe lose 2 guys at most before I win. That's not skill, that's just flaunting the fact you got gear and are keeping them from getting it by stomping them into the ground so you can get even better gear to stomp them harder with.

I do like reward for skilled pvp, but the current state is just too broad a spectrum.

I'm really looking forward to rated bg's, I think they will be much more fun than arena and allow you really enjoy winning and even losing with the new system to be implemented.

How did you know Svpernova's strategy?

[Svpernova09]

How did you know Svpernova's strategy?

Don't knock Cat On Keyboard (COK). It's gotten me to 1700+!

[Boylston]

Once of the things I like about this the most -- for boxers -- Is that it makes any ole' team you like to be competitive. You want to run 4x Warlocks in rated BG's? Done. Grab a healer friend and have at it. You'll eventually get to the point where it's about your skill and your teammates vice "Ah man, I'm cockblocked because I can't get the 1800 weapons." I like that a lot.

I like this a lot as well. One of the worries I had about picking my first team to level to 85 is that I figured I would have to guess the better team in PvP because the second team I leveled would have to work uphill against a gear barrier. I like the idea of having 2 BG teams at 85 someday and seeing which one I am truly better at playing. As it stands now, gear plays so much of a role that the earliest arrivals to max-level enjoy huge advantages. (Which, if you are enjoying now, will be very hard to give up!)

[Sbrowne55]

I remember reading that tif bliz could have changed one thing about pvp, was never making arenas.I'm not much of an arena personn but the idea is great for such a small population of playerbase. Those are the ones contributing to prob the most complaints on balance, and creating balanced toons for arenas may affect the larger scale pvp.

Also making arena gear better then bg rewards is dumb. They need an alternative reward for arenas.

Gear plays such a huge role in the outcome of fights, amybe they want skill to be a bigger role in the outcome. Just a thought...

I could be way off tho lol.

[heyaz]

Equal gear for everyone and then see who is actually good or who is being helped by gear advantage. I say let everyone have the same gear so skill is the deciding factor not gear.

That's a different type of game. MMOs hook people in by allowing progression and rewarding you for both skill and grinding. Although I think there can be a balance... if you remember Vanilla, where if you tried to roll an alt, you had no chance at ever gearing them up unless you were already in a top raiding guild and got handed gear right off the bat by filling a role that was needed, or by doing that atrocious rank grind system. That was too much. Being able to grind out pvp and pve gear from 2 seasons ago was a start, but maybe not enough. This new system could work... if they do it right.

[Firstcow]

This is a GREAT change!!! This will boost pvp competition a LOT. Every Joe Blow, to quote someone else, will now be interested in PVP because they have hope. Hope that eventually they can get all the best gear, or most of it. Rating reqs killed hope, and when there is no hope, there is no fun, and no play. Hence pvp slowly died.

Finally Blizzard realizes it is more important to make 90% of the customers happy, than to make 10% happy.

And by adding a cap of points per week ensures that the 80% of the population will never get bored, slowly they upgrade all the gear until the season ends. Then a new season starts and the whole thing starts over.

And to address the insecure elitists with the attitude "MWAAAAA, MWAAAAAA, MOMMMY, I don't feel special anymore because every Joe Blow has the same gear as me, MWAAAAA, MWAAAAA". If you trully are special, prove it in fair competition, that is with equal gear. And you still get to show off that you are special, you get colored armor LOL. I love it how Blizzard slapped all the elitist pricks on the face. LOL.

I LOVE IT. Too bad I don't play WoW anymore.

[heyaz]

If you trully are special, prove it in fair competition, that is with equal gear.

We did, and so did you.

[Eloxy]

If you give a 1500 rated player 2k gear you still end up with a 1500 player =/

The gearchange might not matter, but i dont like it. its turning this game into Teamfortress. I like mmo's

[Mosg2]

I think people are forgetting that the 2200 equivalent weapons still require a high rating. Getting Heroic-mode level gear for being good at PvP is still a pretty big incentive for getting better and showing skill.

[Multibocks]

Are we sure this isn't just for the starter pvp set? Maybe once the first season is over it will go back to ratings on everything.

[Gramzngunz]

I like this change. Just makes gearing for world pvp easier, and that's all I really enjoy. Can't wait!

I also don't totally hate the idea of going back to the vanilla days of actually being able to get something useful for pvp, in pve. I like the idea of being able to do both, and make my character better instead of the old "this is a waste of time pve'ing, i should just be grinding battle grounds" Variaty is the spice of life! :D

[valkry]

This is the biggest pile of bs I've heard in a good while. Rewarding good and dedicated arena/bg play with colours? What the hell is going on..what the hell. So any casual mommaboy can have just as good gear as a pure dedicated pvper?

The one thing that draws me to do better in arena and have fun is to aim for better gear. And having eg shoulders makes you stand a bit out of the crowd. But the colour thing is just as little apealing to me as achievements. They don't matter. Atleast pveers get hardmodes and can have better gear.

I think this change is fail fail fail.
PvP battles should be determined by composition and skill, not by gear gaps...

All current hardmodes can be pugged and carried. Anyone can get the heroic pve gear these days.

[Eloxy]

PvP battles should be determined by composition and skill, not by gear gaps...

All current hardmodes can be pugged and carried. Anyone can get the heroic pve gear these days.

You can easily be carried to 2k aswell, but thats not what im talking about. Anybody with a slight dedication can go 1600 rating and then have PVP chest gloves pants and offparts, So if you have a 232-251 weapon and all wrathfull pieces exept from helm shoulders, you are pretty much set for hitting 1800 rating. But to reach 1800 rating you have to do pvp and IMPROVE your skills, unlike pve where what you face is pretty much sumthing you allready know due to reading taccs (or a 30% i win buff=P), not starting a pvp vs pve discussion here, but pve in the state it is now is to damn boring.

And yeah its cool to stand out of the crowd with gear that not everyone has, makes me feel like i accomplished sumthing.But thats not gonna be the case as much i guess.

[Mosg2]

I disagree with a portion of your last post, Eloxy--Just because you get to 1600 doesn't mean you're going to slowly crawl to 1800 just because you get better at pvp. Maybe you like playing a spec that doesn't work in arenas or you're in a BG that's super small or maybe you can't find partners that complement your playstyle. The point is that this change allows everyone to be on the same footing to start with--Then the best get the 2200 equivalent weapons. That's fair.

[Fat Tire]

I disagree with a portion of your last post, Eloxy--Just because you get to 1600 doesn't mean you're going to slowly crawl to 1800 just because you get better at pvp. Maybe you like playing a spec that doesn't work in arenas or you're in a BG that's super small or maybe you can't find partners that complement your playstyle. The point is that this change allows everyone to be on the same footing to start with--Then the best get the 2200 equivalent weapons. That's fair.

I am sorry but that is a complete misnomer. Now I am going to pull some statistics out of my ass here, but I am willing to bet cash money that 50% of the people who arena cheat in some form at 2500+ at least once. I could go lower on the rating but I am just using it as a avg starting point. Where +0/+1 are not worth it and -20 point losses would be too frustrating.

[Littleburst]

Besides the whole discussion. I don't get T2 weapons now and i don't think i'll get them when cata hits. Simply because i'm not epic pro etc. I could get it if i got a partner with the same skill or higher, but pffff. All for 100 SP more, like we don't oneshot people allready.

It's the set that makes the difference, not a T2 wep. So that's not gonna matter crap in arena either really.

[Whowantstoknow]

Besides the whole discussion. I don't get T2 weapons now and i don't think i'll get them when cata hits. Simply because i'm not epic pro etc. I could get it if i got a partner with the same skill or higher, but pffff. All for 100 SP more, like we don't oneshot people allready.

It's the set that makes the difference, not a T2 wep. So that's not gonna matter crap in arena either really.

For melee the extra damage is quite a lot. For casters less so.

I like the change but not because i couldnt get the gear (I could pay to be carried to 2200 if i wanted) but because there will be a more even spread of skill from 1000 to 2500+ instead of mediocre players getting to 1000 and stopping because they cant get any more gear.

[Mosg2]

@Fat Tire:
I completely agree with you--In the current system.

I'm just saying that for Cata it'll work much better, especially with the consolidation of BG and Arena servers.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Wait a minute. Let me see if I have this right. Folks are saying that Arena rating indicates skill level, but they don't want anyone with less skill (lower rating) to get the same gear stats (as opposed to gear look) as them. So what you folks who don't like the change are saying is that you have an advantage in gear and you don't want to lose that advantage? Understandable, but if all you want is recognition that you're better than the rest of us mouthbreathers, they're giving you that with unique graphical effects for your iPwn gear. So what's the problem again? Don't you want more teams around your level to fight (at least while you're climbing the ladder)? Don't you want more new folks to play against to challenge you with new and unique comps and playstyles?

This sounds suspiciously like the twink debate around the time the xp/no-xp change was going live.

I remember doing raids in DAoC into Tuscaren Glacier, Prince raids, Dragon raids and other stuff where the gear you got was for show 99% of the time as crafted 99/100% weapons were significantly better. Didn't stop us from enjoying the TG/Prince raids. Interesting to see the shift from "that was cool" to "meh, it might be cool but unless it has +1 str on it, just d/e it and gimme the shard."

I R amused.

[Fat Tire]

@Fat Tire:
I completely agree with you--In the current system.

I'm just saying that for Cata it'll work much better, especially with the consolidation of BG and Arena servers.


I would love a source about consolidation of arena servers as I have read nothing of the sort and I consider myself an up-to-date type of person. I read about the Rated BG consolidation but even then its still horde vs alliance only, it will be the same ladder type scaling, once you get past a certain threshold its all the same. Nothing will change. How can anyone measure skill or even call it that when cheating is so rampant. This is why I have preached of playing for yourself and only for yourself, enjoying the mindless entertainment it brings and playing the game for what it is.

[thedreameater]

Skilled pvp players welcome an even playing field. Bads need to hide behind gear.

[valkry]

Skilled pvp players welcome an even playing field. Bads need to hide behind gear.
Quoted for truth.

Also, I don't like that I have to do arena for the best pvp gear. I MUCH prefer BGs and world pvp. I nearly have battlemaster and that arguably takes some skill, yet I only get the same gear as the honour grinders. I like the fact gear will be almost the same for everyone. Also takes out the "he was better geared than me" excuse for losing.

[cmeche]

Skilled pvp players welcome an even playing field. Bads need to hide behind gear.

Quoted for untruth.

I dont understand your point? How do bads actually "hide" behind their gear if they are bad?

"Good" players will always gear up with better gear quicker than "bads". So, "good" players will allready be maxed out on gear when these "bads" finally gear up. And if a "good" player cant beat a "bad" player with equal gear....then you dont pass go.

[Littleburst]

Skilled pvp players welcome an even playing field. Bads need to hide behind gear.

Yes, let's generalise beyond reality to add something constructive. Do that on wowforums please, where it's no exeption.

Having wrath gear feels like you've accomplished something. Same wil a pve player having 6,5k. It's special. Now it's not anymore. And you distinguish yourself by a mount or a non combat pet. whoho.

[Eloxy]

Skilled pvp players welcome an even playing field. Bads need to hide behind gear.

Gz you just hit the constructiveness of the wow-furums.

I realy feel that people that welcome this change so hard, don't realy pvp much at all. It's more like "haha pvpers lost the privilege of having gear I couldn't badge farm!"
Realy... When I started pvp I sucked, I failed and sucked some more. And when I hit 1300 (after 150 games?) I bought the first item and even if it was low, I was damn proud.
And if you can't reach up to 1600 and get competetive gear(wich is all you need as a boxer) then you are doing sumthing wrong and/or giving up to easy.

No reason currentseason gear should be welfare. Everyone can obtain it, if they realy want it.

[Eloxy]

And one more thing, what you say realy pisses me off. Many of my friends and myself worked realy hard for our rating and gear. Lots of frustration, practice, fun (and keyboards in my case). And you say we cowardly hide behind gear??? Gtfo, ofc we will assrape your chrs if you show up in a bg with bad gear. We earnt to do so. Cuz of our hard grind to get gear wich exel at killin stuff and staying alive in pvp. And don't go all "many people get boosted in pvp!" bleh boosting in pve happens at a more regular basis.

[Kicksome]

Yeah, imagine how all the PVE players would react if they said all the raids AND heroics drop the exact same gear so that everyone can be equal. BUT if you kill the end, end boss on heroic mode on the top raid, he'll drop a slightly upgraded weapon.

Same argument! PVE people need to hide behind gear to kill bosses? They aren't skilled enough to kill bosses without the gear?

Oh wait, PVE is a progression? Well so WAS PVP.

[Littleburst]

Yeah, imagine how all the PVE players would react if they said all the raids AND heroics drop the exact same gear so that everyone can be equal. BUT if you kill the end, end boss on heroic mode on the top raid, he'll drop a slightly upgraded weapon.

Same argument! PVE people need to hide behind gear to kill bosses? They aren't skilled enough to kill bosses without the gear?

Oh wait, PVE is a progression? Well so WAS PVP.

QFT. Didn't want to type it myself, because i have no clue if this is indeed the case. I guess there'll still be heroic loot that's better and actually does require progression to be able to get it.

[Alemi]

When I started pvp I sucked,

Back in my day - we had to climb uphill both ways to school. Sorry - that's what this reminded me of. :)

As an old school pvper (glad on my druid in s2, rival on my shamans in s3/s4, and then took a break for the past year so missed out on s6/s7, and have only been back in arena for this past month), I could really care less about this change. I never cared what gear OTHER people had, that's what I don't get?


No reason currentseason gear should be welfare. Everyone can obtain it, if they realy want it.

This is what is making me cringe - it seems everyone here is ASSUMING that this gear will be welfare gear and there seems to be a whole misunderstanding of how the system works. The current structure on the point system in beta, is still being worked on but, currently you get zero conquest points for a loss. Furthermore, there's a limit to the number of rated BGs you can do per day/week (so, you suck, you get no points, get it?) On top of this, there's a limit to the number of conquest points you can get a week, so it's not World of Grindcraft. I'm going to fully expect a much smaller point gain on the arena side of things (i.e. no free pts for a 0 rating team).

Look at the current model for Cataclysm - blues from justice points (HEROICS), blues from honor points (BGs) - valor points ONLY from raids/daily heroic dungeon (i.e. the daily requires ~50 days to acquire ONE piece). Why would anyone assume that conquest points wouldn't follow this method?

Keep in mind that seasons won't last 9 months, normally, and I hardly think anyone will be gearing up using the welfare system.

You guys do realize that the main reason that ratings were removed from gear was because they intentionally wanted to make arenas optional, right?

[Jeppis]

I understand those who feel that they have earned their gear but since everyone is going to get all new gear when cataclysm comes out and their lvl80 hard earned gear(or not) is only good for vendors or boosting virtual ego... i'll say welcome to this change :P

Those good players are still getting their ego boost stuff to show that they can do pretty good job in pvp
All noobs or players who have less time to farm get their gear easier and gear stat difference isn't big so everything is more balanced(=good thing) but still bad players are losing. imo more balanced game is more competitive and fun it will go and i think it's good thing.

Cry new changes, adapt and play hard go pro if you can't adapt this game isn't worth of crying even if you pay 50+ dollars / month

[Kicksome]

Cry new changes, adapt and play hard go pro if you can't adapt this game isn't worth of crying even if you pay 50+ dollars / month

No one is crying about anything, we're just discussing the changes, and what our opinions are regarding the same.

It's pretty interesting to hear other people's point of view until someone comes in and starts name calling like a 6y/o.

[Eloxy]

Ya, and I think I speak for most when I say that its not the fact that other people get the gear that is the problem, it's the fact that it can be obtained by a hamster accendentialy running over your keyboard (metafor please understand:p)

If more people pvp, then great news more varity in teams and closer mmr. But gettin a equal red helmet instead of a blue one isn't much of a carrot to me.

Gee... Some posts here ain't even worth answering gg

[Jeppis]

tbh equal red helmet instead of a blue one woudnt be enough for me either, ofc i wanna see some progress in pvp too so you need to make something to get your gear and feel that you've earned it but i don't wanna see gear with better stats as reward so that very good players get a lot more advantage than regular joe vs poor sucker

[Ughmahedhurtz]

ofc we will assrape your chrs if you show up in a bg with bad gear. We earnt to do so. Cuz of our hard grind to get gear wich exel at killin stuff and staying alive in pvp.
Thanks for being honest about it; I can respect that. Most of us agree that it takes some work and ability to make it into the 2000+ club on your own. I'm just surprised that the resulting skewed playing field tilted dramatically in your favor is something you would enjoy or be proud of. It's basically like saying once you've won the FIFA World Cup championship, they now allow your team to field 15 players. You won that last BG? Color me unsurprised -- your tank has more HPs than some entire 5-man teams and more DPS than two or three of their players. How is that challenging anymore? At that point, you could let your hamster roll around on the keyboard and win the match. /shrug

[Firstcow]

Gz you just hit the constructiveness of the wow-furums.

I realy feel that people that welcome this change so hard, don't realy pvp much at all. It's more like "haha pvpers lost the privilege of having gear I couldn't badge farm!"
Realy... When I started pvp I sucked, I failed and sucked some more. And when I hit 1300 (after 150 games?) I bought the first item and even if it was low, I was damn proud.
And if you can't reach up to 1600 and get competetive gear(wich is all you need as a boxer) then you are doing sumthing wrong and/or giving up to easy.

No reason currentseason gear should be welfare. Everyone can obtain it, if they realy want it.

You feel, but you don't know. Many of us reached 1800 or 2000 rating and we enjoy this very much. I don't even know how many times i've lost hope of ever hitting 2k because of this stupid system. I thought the lack of helm and shoulders was the reason I can't hit 2k, but obviously it wasn't, it was skill. So there's no reason to keep gear from people anymore. Let them all have the gear at a slow pace that lasts an entire season and it will keep the competition up all the time.

[valkry]

You can get carried to the top gear in both PVE and PVP... gear doesn't always mean you earnt it.

Now the pvp titles you earn at the end of each season are the real indicators of skill... unless you win traded your way of course... which never ever happens amirite?

[valkry]

Quoted for untruth.

I dont understand your point? How do bads actually "hide" behind their gear if they are bad?

"Good" players will always gear up with better gear quicker than "bads". So, "good" players will allready be maxed out on gear when these "bads" finally gear up. And if a "good" player cant beat a "bad" player with equal gear....then you dont pass go.
To answer the bold... BROOOOOOOOOOOO STORM!!

[Fat Tire]

"Good" players will always gear up with better gear quicker than "bads". So, "good" players will allready be maxed out on gear when these "bads" finally gear up. And if a "good" player cant beat a "bad" player with equal gear....then you dont pass go.


There is a cap on conquest points per week- every one will be getting the same and roughly at the same rate given that they play until they reach the conquest cap for each week.

On beta I have a bar on the pvp tab its 0/13 and I played some 2v2 on beta everytime we won we gain points(268) and every time we lost we also gained points (also 268) which has gotta be bugged, however once that 13/13 filled up we no longer gained points. Now for every win we got +3 and for every loss we also got +3 which I think was bugged. It could conceivably only take people 10mins of pvp to reach the conquest point cap for the week.

Atleast on beta it was 1340 conquest points for the week. We played 4-5 more games and it didnt matter if we won or lost the 13/13 and max conquest points didnt move.

Now our team/pr rating did move, it was 96 points for a win instead of the current 48. So one can assume that the conquest point rate will be the same for everyone(given they go 13/13) and only the different color armor,2200 weapon ,end of season title will be used for the team/personal rating.

[outdrsyguy1]

I don't think theyve done the first pass on the numbers. last i checked, the daily bg awarded 25 conquest points. Given that there's a cap, and the pro pvp'ers won't be getting 1200+ arena points a week now, I expect to see a lot more people doing the daily bg. it will be interesting to see because as it is now, 25 points a day for a mediocre rated person is like 50% more arena points per week, where as a pro it's like 15% for a lot more time invested.

i also wonder if we'll see pro peeps trying to sell wins each week. I'd be surprised if they'd actually try to sell 2200 rating though.

[Kruschpakx4]

To answer the bold... BROOOOOOOOOOOO STORM!!

your still living in s7, now its STAAAAAAAAAAR FALLLLL!!!

[smokebum]

I still disagree, especially when the top 100 5's teams in US Bloodlust are 2360+ If you're in a BG that has only 5 2.2k rated teams, you're in a terribly shitty BG

I actually started reading the thread again and noticed something that I wasn't clear on. When I said u could probably count the number or teams that were over 2200 with one hand (basically saying boxing in arena isn't easy as some would think), I meant all the boxers in the world and not my bg as a whole. My bg is bad but not this bad.

I know it has nothing to do with the way this thread is going now but I hate being misunderstood.

Sorry I'm kinda anal like that. :)

[JoeWunsch]

Great news for me, I run a bunch of competitions that really can not get weapons.

(5x warlocks, 5 mage, 5x shadow priest)

I have them all at 80 and using titansteel because I could never get them their pvp weapons. I just do 10 arena games with them per week and sell the arena points , every 100 points = 2K honor, and buy gems for free gold.

[JoeWunsch]

Skilled pvp players welcome an even playing field. Bads need to hide behind gear.

I am superbad, so I hide behind better gear AND outnumbering my opponents 5 to 1.

I do this all in the name of pew pew.

[thedreameater]

I apologize for trolling before. What I love most about this community is the honest, levelheaded players which can only come from people who can afford multiple accounts.

This levels the playing field, but gives the top players a visual distinction. Why do you need a tangible advantage over lesser dedicated players, that's not the reason you do arena. Isn't it to be recognized as a skilled and dedicated player?

1 - Skilled players will still post videos for the rest of us to coo over. You will still be fed praise.

2 - You will still climb to the top of the ladder and face the most skilled opponents for a suitable challenge.

3 - The color distinction is weak, I will admit, but what does it matter? How will a poor skilled player wearing your gear matter?

4 - this is more like Starcraft 2. No gear distinction, just bragging rights and a greater challenge at the top.

[Littleburst]

Why do you need a tangible advantage over lesser dedicated players

Why does it work like that for PVE players. I fully understand your point, which is the same as many previous poster.. But WoW and probably any other MMORPG rewards time invested. Why suddenly change this? (For mainly PVP)

I enjoy slaughtering noobs in pve gear on my quadbox. Preferably 10 at once. Though i am looking forward to rated arena. It just nice to sometimes be able to kill people without it requiring good focus and thought, but just press 2 buttons and see people die. It's much more relaxed.

[coglistings]

I am superbad, so I hide behind better gear AND outnumbering my opponents 5 to 1.

I do this all in the name of pew pew.


If you have issues with 5boxing a person down, buy more accounts to give you an edge. outspend your opponenet until either of you are in the poor house, then use welfare money to keep your accounts alive.

i honestly wish there was a "premier service" for people that have multibple accounts. If i have 4 more accounts than everyone esle, shouldn't I get 5 times better service? 10, 20? where is my ingame achivement, "single handedly paying a blizard exec's salary" achivement??? sam, can I get your opinion here? lolz

[Firstcow]

WoW pvp is not a fair sport, it's not like a shooter or SC2. WoW is designed to feed on the need of people to feel important, powerful or special. Giving different gear makes people feel any of these in any combination. So that's why some people, including me, started 5 boxing, I want to feel powerful, I want to crush my opponents without giving them any chance to retaliate. And then when I'm done killing them, I enjoy sitting on their heads and doing all sort of emotes to make their pain even bigger :) Childish and immature? Hell yes, but that's what makes WoW fun for me. If I had to always go in fair competition and always have to work hard to win anything, I wouldn't play WoW, I would just play SC2 which is much cheaper due to no sub.

This is why I didn't play arena in all seasons but S8, arena is hard, you can't just out burst your opponents, you have to outskill them, that doesn't make me feel powerful, it makes me feel like I have to work hard. Which is why towards the end of S8 I lost interest as I couldn't make progress after getting 2k rating by outbursting, I actually had to think to win games.

So deep down inside many of you have the same thirst to just ****ing crush someone hard in the ***ing ass, you just don't want to admit it :)

Edit: BTW, I've stopped playing wow 2 months ago because of the same reason I was enjoying it so much, it made me a power addict when basically I could kill 20+ people in AV matches by myself. It's very much fun, but it's not healthy, gives you a skewed perspective of how the RL world works. Which is why I play SC2 now, which is not as much fun, but at least it doesn't feed my hunger for crushing ass LOL

[Shabu42]

Are you sure they just haven't added the rating requirements yet? They used to not have rating requirements a few seasons ago and said that it was a big mistake so they added the ratings. This would be a complete 180 degree change in direction for them so it would be a bit surprising if they actually did that.

Maybe even a 360 degree turn! :P

[bhec7715]

What people here are failing to mention is that in season 1 there weren't many people complaining about lack of rating requirements. It wasn't a problem until people started selling points in season 2. As is customary for Blizzard, they overkilled it with rating requirements.

The original system was the best system. It was the only thing in wow that allowed you to log on for 30 minutes and work towards gear. Getting 300-400 points a week took you 2.5 months to get a weapon. A 2000 rated arena team was getting that same item in 2.5 weeks. Seems fair to me.

The problem of point selling was fixed with the rule that your pr had to be within 150 points of the tr in order to get the points for that team. After that, all other changes were unnecessary.

I play wow like 6 hours a week. I fail to see how allowing me to have a reason to play hurts anyone else's gaming experience. OMG I got a weapon 3 months after you and in that time you are completely geared and I obtained 1 weapon......also I'm never on for you to be affected...so again...why exactly do you care?

[bhec7715]

WoW pvp is not a fair sport, it's not like a shooter or SC2. WoW is designed to feed on the need of people to feel important, powerful or special. Giving different gear makes people feel any of these in any combination. So that's why some people, including me, started 5 boxing, I want to feel powerful, I want to crush my opponents without giving them any chance to retaliate. And then when I'm done killing them, I enjoy sitting on their heads and doing all sort of emotes to make their pain even bigger :) Childish and immature? Hell yes, but that's what makes WoW fun for me. If I had to always go in fair competition and always have to work hard to win anything, I wouldn't play WoW, I would just play SC2 which is much cheaper due to no sub.

This is why I didn't play arena in all seasons but S8, arena is hard, you can't just out burst your opponents, you have to outskill them, that doesn't make me feel powerful, it makes me feel like I have to work hard. Which is why towards the end of S8 I lost interest as I couldn't make progress after getting 2k rating by outbursting, I actually had to think to win games.

So deep down inside many of you have the same thirst to just ****ing crush someone hard in the ***ing ass, you just don't want to admit it :)

Edit: BTW, I've stopped playing wow 2 months ago because of the same reason I was enjoying it so much, it made me a power addict when basically I could kill 20+ people in AV matches by myself. It's very much fun, but it's not healthy, gives you a skewed perspective of how the RL world works. Which is why I play SC2 now, which is not as much fun, but at least it doesn't feed my hunger for crushing ass LOL

LOL.....10/10 for honesty. Yeah using instant lavas on some poor sap is pretty fun. Or busting 5 shocks and 5 thunders on a war that decides to BS you.