Cata not so MB friendly

[blbjtb]

Just dropping by after playing the Beta to level 83 and I would like to share some thoughts. Im not saying that you cant MB im not saying that they stop us im just stating some facts that I have found.

1) (quests) the sea zone (Vashji) (sp) is amazing really fun after you get your sea legs (+60% movement speed and Underwater breathing) However after the first 6 or so quests it turns in to a collection fest. Not only a collection fest but also phasing tech heavy. For example one quest sends you into a cave and everytime you go into said cave you get a quest once you complete the quest it adds a new npc as well as a new phase thus the people (PC) that where not there before are there now. I remember how much of a nightmare that was in Ice Crown its just as bad here and this is just the first board really.

2 Mount Hyjal again collection quests out the wazoo and when you die you are spawned on a death Gyphon (again IC) pretty annoying because for somereason it breaks follow pretty easy.

3) Dungeons using premade characters I really hope the dungeons get toned down a little bit. Insanely difficult to say the least Characters with full LK gear just get torn to shreads..(again nothing us boxers have not delt with before)

4) Xp from Battle grounds I dont know because it seems to take an eternity for battlegrounds to pop on the Beta Servers.

Im not all doom and gloom. The new talet trees are really well done and the game is still a ton of fun. I personally feel that if Im going to level I will be trying to level in Battlegrounds where I will thrive. % xp is pretty awesome it maybe a tad bit slower than questing but in the long run I think it will save me some money on keyboards and mice that I will break after seeing the 600th go collect bone fragments that are the size of a pea.

Let me know what you think I'm interested in knowing what you guys think!

[Kalros]

At this point, I'm just in "Wait and See" mode. I might get one copy of Cataclysm to start, and see how everyone else here is doing first before I invest in 4 more copies.

I think the first big indicator will be the big pre-Cata patch that will hit a month or so before the expansion. This will give us an idea about the new talent trees, class mechanics, etc. We'll also find out if they will indeed kill the /click macros (which, personally, will be a dealbreaker for me) and any other stuff like that.

I'm holding out hope that Cataclysm will indeed be boxable and am going to keep playing until I hear something different.

[Slats]

Are they still making you 'discover' a dungeon entrance before you can use LFG to just teleport into it? I was keen on probably leveling through a mix of battle-grounds and instances. More so just because quest hubs will be so damn crowded. :(

Does it have two starting ones like WOTLK? Or is there only one?

[Heenan]

Are you running multiple accounts in the beta to see these things firsthand?

[blbjtb]

Im not running multiple accounts in beta to see these things first hand however im playing nightly with a friend and we are doing tests. If im on a different part of the quest he cant see me and I cant see him. the death gryphon there is a glich so you are always in walking speed while dead (really annoying) so its hard to loose someone while traveling at a snails pace.

there are two starting instances Hyjal and Vash

You still have to discover the dungeon enterence.

In no way am I trying to discourage anyone from playing. Im simply stating my findings thus far.

[Daeri]

I the death gryphon there is a glich so you are always in walking speed while dead (really annoying) so its hard to loose someone while traveling at a snails pace.
. Couldn't this happen because of the lag ? I read somewhere that the beta server was quite laggy

[blbjtb]

The lag on the server is really good actually. its just a glitch.... A really really annoying glitch. Just like crashing in SW whenever a boat comes by the docks lol.

[shadewalker]

Couldn't this happen because of the lag ? I read somewhere that the beta server was quite laggy


I can confirm that this is a bug and not lag. It has happened to me anytime i die in Hyjal (seems to happen a lot when multiple mobs spawn on top of you, lol). flying back to your corpse at walking speed is not fun, i have to agree with that.

[Daeri]

Okay :) I guess it's hard to picture what exactly this glitch feel like until you've tried out by ourself.

[Volch0k]

Hi. I just want to say what my opinion on the case is.

About the phasing; I remember how **** annoying this was when I first entered IC. Did some quests, PHAT collection q. came along, and I only did it on my paladin. All the sudden, everything was different, and my shamans couldn't interact with my paladin. However, the day came that i realized that I need to do this. Sure, it took quite some time to finish it. But once it was done, things were OK.'

Many people might think, from seeing beta video's, or even trying it; This is gonna be so hard to multibox.
Remember the first months of wotlk? Even heroics were 'hard'.

[Multibocks]

Yeah Im inclined to think it will be Northrend all over again. Heroics will be hard until the 2nd teir is out and then it will be farm city again. By the 3rd teir you will afk your way through them, like you do now. However I have been extremely annoyed by the amount of collection quests in Hyjal. I thought they were moving away from that shit?

Also:


The balance of high level content (heroics and raids especially) for Cataclysm is going to shift a bit more towards the "hardcore" crowd. Outdoor mob difficulty, heroic modes available immediately, etc.
is kinda troubling. Do they mean heroic raids or heroic dungeons? I don't want to bang my head against a wall in dungeons until the 3rd teir is released before I can box one.... Wait and see!

[zenga]

I truly hope that heroic modes are actually gonna be heroic. That slaying a new boss means something, even if it takes a while to nail it down. Most wotlk hc's were very easy for me to multibox (both as new boxer and new wow player). If the minimum difficulty level would be the ICC dungeons in sub 219 gear, then i'd be happy.

I don't think that any heroic should be multiboxable by any joe multiboxer. Not so much of the system (i.e. mounted combat), but rather due to the fight mechanics. Nothing wrong with a good portion of skill required to multibox cata hc's (even if that would mean i coming short myself).

[Velassra]

I don't think that any heroic should be multiboxable by any joe multiboxer. Not so much of the system (i.e. mounted combat), but rather due to the fight mechanics. Nothing wrong with a good portion of skill required to multibox cata hc's (even if that would mean i coming short myself).

Why, When a half stoned and blind chimp can solo box a heroic as it is now?

The only thing the mechanics is going to do is a kite-fest run in a circle jerk. That's not fun, it's not challenging, it's even annoying while single boxing.

[Iceorbz]

I think the fights in the last set of dungeons was pretty good. ToC is really nice, PoS (especially the last boss) is tons of fun. Halls of Reflection is about the minium difficulty a dungeon should be honestly, I like it challenging.

I remember botanica, mechanar, and heroic citadel. Alll fun places!

[daviddoran]

I hope the phasing is different. From what I've seen, the phasing isnt an area you travel through, but rather the world changing around you, so hopefully if you turn in the quest on all your guys at once, you shouldnt have a problem.

And I REALLY hope blizzard gets their heads out of their asses about collection quests. Make the items lootable to everyone in the party and it solves the problem entirely.

[Multibocks]

I remember botanica, mechanar, and heroic citadel. Alll fun places!


You need help. I don't like my heroics being easy, but at the same time I like them being doable. There's no reason for me to box Cata if I can't do heroic dungeons. I will go back to single boxing then.

[Multibocks]

I truly hope that heroic modes are actually gonna be heroic. That slaying a new boss means something, even if it takes a while to nail it down. Most wotlk hc's were very easy for me to multibox (both as new boxer and new wow player). If the minimum difficulty level would be the ICC dungeons in sub 219 gear, then i'd be happy.

I don't think that any heroic should be multiboxable by any joe multiboxer. Not so much of the system (i.e. mounted combat), but rather due to the fight mechanics. Nothing wrong with a good portion of skill required to multibox cata hc's (even if that would mean i coming short myself).

This sounds like elitism, but rest assured boxers won't find these dungeons easy at the start. There is a crap ton of movement and lots of stuff that each person is solely responsible for... it won't be easy for sure.

[Iceorbz]

You need help. I don't like my heroics being easy, but at the same time I like them being doable. There's no reason for me to box Cata if I can't do heroic dungeons. I will go back to single boxing then.

I would gladly drop my 10 accounts to single box if they made the game challenging. Hell in everquest you really couldnt multibox many of the new raids from MPG Trials, they were fun and challenging (Not sure who remembers simon says).

[Multibocks]

Have you beat any hardmodes? Come back when you have done Alone in the Dark and LK 25 HM. No way you will say that shit is easy.

Makes me fucking angry when people call this game easy yet they haven't even tried the hard shit. Well no wonder it's easy!

[outdrsyguy1]

I'm with you Multibocks, it's amazing how many people say wow is easymode now and faceroll yet i bet 95% of them have never cleared any full raid of hardmodes or even heroic raids. I think it's damn fantastic that they let average people and pugs be able to clear raid content. This game is so much better than it was when you had to work politics to get in raids all the time and stay in the good graces of your guild. Forget missing raids and getting dropped off the starter team....

It will be multiboxable, and hard like when northrend started i'm sure. But remember, blizz wants 5 noobs to be able to clear and see content... you can multibox better than 5 noobs, trust me.

[heyaz]

by the subject it sounded like the whole game wasn't multibox friendly

you just meant the quests and leveling

it was like that before...

[heyaz]

zzz

[SideWays]

I truly hope that heroic modes are actually gonna be heroic. That slaying a new boss means something, even if it takes a while to nail it down. Most wotlk hc's were very easy for me to multibox (both as new boxer and new wow player). If the minimum difficulty level would be the ICC dungeons in sub 219 gear, then i'd be happy.

I don't think that any heroic should be multiboxable by any joe multiboxer. Not so much of the system (i.e. mounted combat), but rather due to the fight mechanics. Nothing wrong with a good portion of skill required to multibox cata hc's (even if that would mean i coming short myself).

^ this.

Seriously I really miss the challenge. It's way too casual atm. And to those saying the game isn't casual, look at this:

You ding 80, you can instantly grab about 4 BiS items (or at least iLevel 264 items) for your char. Easy? Go do VoA25 and grab another piece with a little luck. After that PuG or guild run ICC10 / 25 and you probably almost hit the gear cap without ever seeing Naxxramas, Ulduar or ToC. That has been impossible before and explains why many players don't know their class anymore. They have almost no experience before they enter the final raid of an expansion..

I did Alone in the Dark and everything but Lich King 25 HM in ICC on my single char, but stopped a while ago. Basically you are saying because of two bosses the content isn't casual. The problem is you get equal loot from all the other bosses in ICC too.

[Zub]

^ this.

Seriously I really miss the challenge. It's way too casual atm. And to those saying the game isn't casual, look at this:

You ding 80, you can instantly grab about 4 BiS items (or at least iLevel 264 items) for your char. Easy? Go do VoA25 and grab another piece with a little luck. After that PuG or guild run ICC10 / 25 and you probably almost hit the gear cap without ever seeing Naxxramas, Ulduar or ToC.
we're 2 years into the expansion.

if that wasn't the case, people would still need to run normals > heroics > Naxx > Ulduar > ToC > ICC.
no way people that level alts are going to do this again so blizz made it easier. It wasn't like that the day Wotlk cam out.

[Multibocks]

^ this.

Seriously I really miss the challenge. It's way too casual atm. And to those saying the game isn't casual, look at this:

You ding 80, you can instantly grab about 4 BiS items (or at least iLevel 264 items) for your char. Easy? Go do VoA25 and grab another piece with a little luck. After that PuG or guild run ICC10 / 25 and you probably almost hit the gear cap without ever seeing Naxxramas, Ulduar or ToC. That has been impossible before and explains why many players don't know their class anymore. They have almost no experience before they enter the final raid of an expansion..

I did Alone in the Dark and everything but Lich King 25 HM in ICC on my single char, but stopped a while ago. Basically you are saying because of two bosses the content isn't casual. The problem is you get equal loot from all the other bosses in ICC too.

Ah I see you are an elitist. The fact that you have done Alone in the Dark puts you in a very small percentage of WoW players. But that isn't good enough for you, you need a giant arrow above your head saying, "Better than you, by a lot." You need a big set of spaulders that barely encompass your already huge head. Understand that what you are complaining about is only possible because we are at the end of Wrath. BTW, lol at winning anything in VOA25. I haven't won shit since I have been playing and that's a lot of vault raids.

Oh and quit hiding behind :

why many players don't know their class anymore because we know you don't actually want the majority of the player base to have the same equipment as you.

I like blizzard's system. If you are casual then you are always 2 steps behind the raiders. Makes it much easier to take a break and then come back without having to raid Ulduar then ToC to see ICC. Fuck that.

edit: I realize that it's possible you have a character not listed, but none of your guys have ulduar completed and only one has a kingslayer title (which looks bought because there are not many other achieves). You better get caught up on Ulduar and ToC achieves, because you shouldn't be in ICC by your logic. Oh and pps I have no qualms about buying KS, I've done it on a character just so I could get invited to raids.

[SideWays]

Lol I seriously don't want a flame war here, I just wanna say that first:

Those are my multiboxing characters I "abandoned" 6 months ago and now reactivated. I stated before that I did those raids on my single characters which are not listed here and which I don't play anymore.

Also, I didn't buy that Kingslayer, I helped some RL friends by migrating to their shitty PvE server because they couldn't get Kingslayer with their guild. That's why I transfered my team to their server and that way maybe get back to WoW again and prepare for Cataclysm. Anyway, I'm happy you like the game that way. Have fun.

[blbjtb]

Coming back to let people know what I have found thus far in my findings in the expansion. Its REALLY easy to level one character.

I just want to say that right off the bat. My pally (used one of my boxed pallies because I wanted to know what he would be in for) for all you DK pally teams (myself included) There seems to be alot more correctly timed button pressing with Pallies then there was in Wotlk. You also no long proc art of war for your free flash heal it ONLY works on exercisim.

The collection quests are Nuckin Futs! Im not kidding when I say this. One collection quest has you picking up scared rabbits... They run from you and its annoying as all hell single boxing it.

Dungeons. First boss in Vashij (sp) she makers her self immune does AOE dmg if your team is together and summons mobs that do dmg as well. She also puts down goo that if your standing is will kill you... fun times. The other bosses are pretty tough and the last boss was broken when we tried to fight him.

Blackrock. I have only done it one time and my group died over and over so we just quit out.

I believe I read somewhere that you will be able to do rated battle grounds for loot thats close to raid gear. I think if I do box this is how i will do it. From what I have seen (again not trying to be mister doom and gloom) They are trying to tighten the reigns on boxing Or they are trying to funnel us into PVP.

Just my 2 copper take it for what its worth.

[Lyonheart]

The collection quests are Nuckin Futs! Im not kidding when I say this. One collection quest has you picking up scared rabbits... They run from you and its annoying as all hell single boxing it.

I used IWT ( interact with target) for that quest and it was easy. Target the bunny..spam IWT until you pick it up..easy shiot! Aso, I'm finding the collection quests easier than wotlk and past. The items are never rare, you never need 30+ or anything. They still will suck for boxers but not as bad as pre cata IMO. The only time they are bad is when there are too few of the said mob(s) in the area. But they have mentioned fixing the spawn rate for those type of quests.

[Zub]

The collection quests are Nuckin Futs! Im not kidding when I say this. One collection quest has you picking up scared rabbits... They run from you and its annoying as all hell single boxing it.
what's one quest in the light of hundred others.
Ever done that quest in Scholazar where you need to catch running chickens? that's a daily on top of that i believe.


Dungeons. First boss in Vashij (sp) she makers her self immune does AOE dmg if your team is together and summons mobs that do dmg as well. She also puts down goo that if your standing is will kill you... fun times.
Animalus. elder nadox etc. lots of mobs already have immunities and throw aoes and goo. eventually we still get them.


I believe I read somewhere that you will be able to do rated battle grounds for loot thats close to raid gear. I think if I do box this is how i will do it. From what I have seen (again not trying to be mister doom and gloom) They are trying to tighten the reigns on boxing Or they are trying to funnel us into PVP.
Just my 2 copper take it for what its worth.
the sky ain't falling mate, stop being mr doom & gloom :p

[Umbaalo]

I'm looking forward to the new content regardless of what complications may arise while multiboxxing. Ingenuity will prevail and the community will be sharing tips and tricks left and right. The only thing that has me on the edge of my seat is whether holy power is going to pan out or not.

[Zub]

I'm looking forward to the new content regardless of what complications may arise while multiboxxing. Ingenuity will prevail and the community will be sharing tips and tricks left and right.
Precisely my sentiment.
the only thing i'm concerned about is whether my old crappy machines will be able to run all my wow instances.

[confusedtx5]

It will be multiboxable, and hard like when northrend started i'm sure. But remember, blizz wants 5 noobs to be able to clear and see content... you can multibox better than 5 noobs, trust me.
^^ I agree with this. Blizz won't alienate 90% (ish? - random number on my part) of their player base (read: the noobs) by making norm dungeons only do able when you're 2 levels above the 'recommended' level.

[nauren01]

one question on cata - I read somewhere that 10 and 25 raids of the same ini will have the same loot, just the amount is different.

Is that true? That would mean you could get all items with a 10box, I would call that multibox friendly :)

Of course, if all 10er content would require independant slave movement or action, that wouldn't help much...

[blbjtb]

I used IWT ( interact with target) for that quest and it was easy. Target the bunny..spam IWT until you pick it up..easy shiot! Aso, I'm finding the collection quests easier than wotlk and past. The items are never rare, you never need 30+ or anything. They still will suck for boxers but not as bad as pre cata IMO. The only time they are bad is when there are too few of the said mob(s) in the area. But they have mentioned fixing the spawn rate for those type of quests.

I use IWT as well to box (melee group) your right in the fact that I have not seen a collect 30 xyz except cannon balls which is 50..... However you collect them in groups so its not so bad. Horrid spawn time though ugh. I can only imagine in live how crazy thats going to be.

[blbjtb]

what's one quest in the light of hundred others.
Ever done that quest in Scholazar where you need to catch running chickens? that's a daily on top of that i believe.


Animalus. elder nadox etc. lots of mobs already have immunities and throw aoes and goo. eventually we still get them.


the sky ain't falling mate, stop being mr doom & gloom :p


All very good points I didnt even do Scholazar basin on my melee group because I did so much pvp =P

Animalus its kinda like him plus nadox just on roids. Then again currently (when i was playing) I could just steam roll them. So yes eventually we will get them there is not a doubt in my mind of that.

The Sky is falling and I can prove it... no wait thats just rain carry on.

[blbjtb]

one question on cata - I read somewhere that 10 and 25 raids of the same ini will have the same loot, just the amount is different.

Is that true? That would mean you could get all items with a 10box, I would call that multibox friendly :)

Of course, if all 10er content would require independant slave movement or action, that wouldn't help much...

from what I have read yes its the same items just different amounts. Its also the same Raid lock timer....

So ya a 10 boxer could get all of the best gear from raids and what not

Im sure NONE of the content will require independant slave movement.... I think cata is gonna turn in to a turret defense. (sarcasim)

I would be willing to bet you are gonna have to move around in raid content =)

[jinkobi]

I thought in the beta they were making it where you could quest together through phases if you're in the same party?

Collection quests suck for boxers but we've all done it before through WOTLK. They are painful but not like it's going to stop us. If I have to do my guys through those quests one character at a time then that's how it goes. Also heard the drop rates are pretty much 100% now so that's another plus.

Not going to be a walk in the park but I don't think anyone here wants that. For months now I've been bored as hell because there's nothing to do and facerolling heroics forever without any challenge. Most everyone has been so disgusted with how easy the game has become have cancelled until Cata.

Of course nobody wants content that is so hard that they are frustrated just challenged. They also have to keep in mind lots of players suck and can't ramp up things too much where they can't handle it. Normal mode I expect fairly easy on dungeons and heroics to finally feel heroic again.

So early in the beta right now most things are overscaled. Expect tons of nerfs come the end of beta and as the final product gets polished. I think dungeons are harder now in beta because they're trying to test and what you have now is a hybrid of a normal/heroic.

Anyway it's too early to tell. Collection quests won't stop me- gimmick shit where your guys get tossed all over the place is my biggest concern but even then I can see it being done.

[blbjtb]

I thought in the beta they were making it where you could quest together through phases if you're in the same party?

Collection quests suck for boxers but we've all done it before through WOTLK. They are painful but not like it's going to stop us. If I have to do my guys through those quests one character at a time then that's how it goes. Also heard the drop rates are pretty much 100% now so that's another plus.

Not going to be a walk in the park but I don't think anyone here wants that. For months now I've been bored as hell because there's nothing to do and facerolling heroics forever without any challenge. Most everyone has been so disgusted with how easy the game has become have cancelled until Cata.

Of course nobody wants content that is so hard that they are frustrated just challenged. They also have to keep in mind lots of players suck and can't ramp up things too much where they can't handle it. Normal mode I expect fairly easy on dungeons and heroics to finally feel heroic again.

So early in the beta right now most things are overscaled. Expect tons of nerfs come the end of beta and as the final product gets polished. I think dungeons are harder now in beta because they're trying to test and what you have now is a hybrid of a normal/heroic.

Anyway it's too early to tell. Collection quests won't stop me- gimmick shit where your guys get tossed all over the place is my biggest concern but even then I can see it being done.

Lets Break this down in to three parts.

First the drop rates are really close to 100% and the quest guide really does hold your hand. You can also hover over a mob and it will tell you drops XYZ for quest.... This is really nice and has been a vast improvement over the other questing I have done in games.

Second Facerolling heroics..... You are rocking T9 items obviously you are going to rock conent made for T5/6. So if this is a concern for you guess what a few months after cata is released you will be right back to this step.

Lastly, I have done the single collection quest one at a time its not a big deal I look at as "well I only have to do it this one time."

So Cata not so friendly
BUT
Cata obviously do able.

[Multibocks]

I have done almost all of Vashir now and it's a cool zone but fuck if there isnt a crapload of collection quests. And a few "vehicle" quests where you control a Naga and pwn some fools. One series of quests have you liberating a giant turtle thingie from its Naga infection. Seriously you go inside the turtle and do a bunch of quests. I was hoping for a badass cut scene when you finished, but nothing happened. Ah well.

But ya, I dread this zone for boxing. There was a couple points with only 3 people fighting for the same ground spawns and it was fucking ridiculous. Can't wait for launch, lol.

Oh and one more point: Leveling seemed to be pretty fast. I did 80-82 in about 5 hours. I'm 83 now and can't wait to try Uldum and the other zones they just released =D

[jinkobi]

Lets Break this down in to three parts.

First the drop rates are really close to 100% and the quest guide really does hold your hand. You can also hover over a mob and it will tell you drops XYZ for quest.... This is really nice and has been a vast improvement over the other questing I have done in games.

Second Facerolling heroics..... You are rocking T9 items obviously you are going to rock conent made for T5/6. So if this is a concern for you guess what a few months after cata is released you will be right back to this step.

Lastly, I have done the single collection quest one at a time its not a big deal I look at as "well I only have to do it this one time."

So Cata not so friendly
BUT
Cata obviously do able.

I was facerolling heroics with the exception of ICC 5mans in ver substandard gear. Didn't even do normal modes and took my team right into WOTLK heroics in quest blues and greens. They pretty much just used whatever dropped until they accumulated emblems. My point really is it was a faceroll well before my gear overshadowed the place.

Back in TBC if you walked into a heroic with quest blues/greens you'd get your ass kicked.

[Multibocks]

Back in TBC if you walked into a heroic with quest blues/greens you'd get your ass kicked Actually I remember soloing heroics with 5 shaman and doing pretty well. I hit 80 right before Wrath launched with my shaman team and went right into heroics. How's that for easy?

Ok if you did it when Wrath first came out then I call bullshit. I remember the multiple threads that popped up, "How do I kill the elemental boss in Gundrak?" as an example. Yes if you came after the initial rush then it was easier, strats were out. No one was facerolling heroics when Wrath first launched. Sorry.

You know what would be cool though? If heroics were impossible for boxers in Cataclysm. Oh the joy! It would be so FUN!

edit: Also boxing software has come a fucking long way and talents have been redesigned for many classes. Ele sham used to have NO scaling talents. So ya, shits easier now, want a cookie?

[thefunk]

nothing is impossible - people here have proved time and again. Especially 10 boxing, i personally was skeptical and yet seeing people clear most of ICC is pretty spectacular.

It raises a particularly interesting point about multi-boxing

Do you play for the challenge of playing against the initial design of WoW, or because you can easily kill/clear content? Like Khatovar I'm in it for the complexity and challenge of "can it be done with 1 person".

[kate]

I'm personally fascinated by the areas of process automation and effort scaling. While we cannot automate when boxing in WoW, we can do effort scaling, and it's quite interesting to try and accomplish this.

Now that I am feeling somewhat more comfortable with the mechanics of WoW and the various fights in general, as well as the physical mechanics of boxing (meaning: I have a reasonably ergonomic key layout, I am not so surprised by everything I experience in the game that I forget to move people out of fire, or otherwise get too excited and spam random keys, etc.) I'm really enjoying looking at it from a standpoint of how the fights work as phases and steps, and how to devise approaches that allow one person to accomplish what, by design, should take at least 5 to do.

The other thing I like about boxing - though I also experience this when I am solo boxing and tagging along on a raid - is that I can stand back a bit and look at fights like they're kind of an RTS, except much more interesting because there are so very, very many variables that can affect each unit involved. When raiding with Nighthawke and Coltimar (we will get you, Toravon!) it was really pretty interesting to be able to spend 10% of my attention on healing as needed with the other 90% watching what we were doing from a tactical standpoint and figuring out what was going awry or areas of improvement.

[Alemi]

Actually I remember soloing heroics with 5 shaman and doing pretty well. I hit 80 right before Wrath launched with my shaman team and went right into heroics. How's that for easy?

In BC you could pretty much run 5 shaman without a tank and complete every heroic. I did - especially when we horribly outgeared the instance. At the start of Wrath, there was absolutely no soloing any complete instance with 5 shaman. Esp when our Earth Ele's and Fire Ele's didn't scale either (wasn't this fixed when Ulduar came out?).



edit: Also boxing software has come a fucking long way and talents have been redesigned for many classes. Ele sham used to have NO scaling talents. So ya, shits easier now, want a cookie?

Truth.

Remember when, as an ele shaman, the only "fix" for us was to spec into dual-wield to double flametongue to keep our dps only slightly below par with other dps classes that scaled? We didn't get Shamanism until 3 months after Wrath hit and right before Ulduar came out. Fun times!

[thefunk]

or otherwise get too excited and spam random keys


I can't count the amount of times I've reverted to button mashing every key in desperation to avoid the group wipe. I'm tempted to paint my OHSH*T button in red (the druid battle rez) as I always forget which one it is in the heat of the moment...

Personally I'd prefer Blizz carried on designing the game for solo play and it's up to us boxers to find a way to 'beat' the design, so to speak, rather than having a load of kill quests, tank'n'spank instances and sub cancellations galore. I'd quickly get bored.

[Iceorbz]

Have you beat any hardmodes? Come back when you have done Alone in the Dark and LK 25 HM. No way you will say that shit is easy.

Makes me fucking angry when people call this game easy yet they haven't even tried the hard shit. Well no wonder it's easy!

Most of wow is a gearcheck, not a skill check. Yes I can perform to standards of an "elite" player, I did in MC, BWL, ZB, Naxx, ToC, and yes I've done some hardmodes in ICC (and would have done more) if I choose to raid instead of level my RAF. I have been able to keep the percentages and timing of cooldowns and rotations to those parsed by computer models, while account for boss movement and encounter mechanics. My current schedule only allows for a few nights a week to play, not to mention gearscore nazi's. I think cataclysm will change this when we only have to do a few raids on a person instead needing to do 10, 25's, voa's, weekly's, daily pvp's and such to keep up with the gear each week.

I really think the quality of player has gone down in this game compared to some raid guilds in others games like everquest (In its competitive time period). Many players don't even know how other classes function and are unable to think outside of the box for just about everything.

I see some fights that require a few interesting mechanics, but there haven't been many that I'm like "HOLY SHIT- Thats rough". I mean honestly, when people can down the content the week it's out.... how hard was it really? When you can multibox content -- how hard is it really? There is a large margin of error allowed by this game, sure in some hardmodes it may gib you... but how often will you lose a raid if one healer is off by a second or two?

Anyone remember healing chains, and orders? Class specific healing assignments, real raid triage (I will let him die because hes not important, and I can't spare the mana to save him?) Specific assignments for innervate, cd rotations that stuff made the game exciting and fun and it shouldn't be just "hard modes", it should start with face rape and make people work hard for it. I think Heroic Halls of Reflection should be a symbol of the minimum difficulty for an low level encounter (at 80).

[Iceorbz]

You know what would be cool though? If heroics were impossible for boxers in Cataclysm. Oh the joy! It would be so FUN!

edit: Also boxing software has come a fucking long way and talents have been redesigned for many classes. Ele sham used to have NO scaling talents. So ya, shits easier now, want a cookie?

I would like to see us forced to manage a few more cooldowns, and CC. Having to use hex I think will be interesting.

When's the last time you were worried about interrupting a mob other then gundrak? Make use more abilities and be creative, we were in Halls of Reflection, we will be in cataclysm. I think blizzard is on the right track

[Multibocks]

I would like to see us forced to manage a few more cooldowns, and CC. Having to use hex I think will be interesting.

When's the last time you were worried about interrupting a mob other then gundrak? Make use more abilities and be creative, we were in Halls of Reflection, we will be in cataclysm. I think blizzard is on the right track

You know this is fine the first time, but seriously who wants to CC this, interrupt that, Kite him, oh and dont touch that x 365? If Algalon, Lich King, or Alone in the Dark was my daily quest everyday? Ya that would get so on my nerves. At what point does this become fun? If you have beat it once great. If blizzard requires me to beat it again 7 times a week it's no longer fun and it's tedious. I don't think dungeons that we need to clear daily for the new emblems should be "challenging all the time." Which is what you seem to want.

If I had to do a lich king heroic that took 2 hours to complete, because of wiping, I wouldn't be playing this game. That is pure masochism and not fun.

I think blizzard's model right now is perfect. When Lich King first launched the dungeons were difficult and I did spend quite a bit learning each encounter and wiping. By the time Ulduar was dropped it wasn't so hard anymore. This is good, because I don't really care to do a wipe fest everyday for my daily. I think they got it perfect.

[Iceorbz]

You know this is fine the first time, but seriously who wants to CC this, interrupt that, Kite him, oh and dont touch that x 365? If Algalon, Lich King, or Alone in the Dark was my daily quest everyday? Ya that would get so on my nerves. At what point does this become fun? If you have beat it once great. If blizzard requires me to beat it again 7 times a week it's no longer fun and it's tedious. I don't think dungeons that we need to clear daily for the new emblems should be "challenging all the time." Which is what you seem to want.

If I had to do a lich king heroic that took 2 hours to complete, because of wiping, I wouldn't be playing this game. That is pure masochism and not fun.

I think blizzard's model right now is perfect. When Lich King first launched the dungeons were difficult and I did spend quite a bit learning each encounter and wiping. By the time Ulduar was dropped it wasn't so hard anymore. This is good, because I don't really care to do a wipe fest everyday for my daily. I think they got it perfect.

I think your exaggerating quite a bit. As you can see, I think halls of reflection is the perfect difficulty for a "heroic instance". Having to use your classes abilities is why they were put in the game. We used them in Vanilla, and BC... then went away from it towards the end of BC and into Lich King using more spells then consecration + a caster aoe was the standard. Dungeons don't have to be rediculous, I don't feel like we should ding 80 and be hitting heroics.

[Multibocks]

What should we be doing? Pre-Heroics?

[Iceorbz]

What should we be doing? Pre-Heroics?

You would do normal level 85 dungeons till your pretty much geared up through them. Just like we did in burning crusade, people ran normal "70" instances for a bit, till they could get enough to do heroics. Maybe many people have forgotten that Shadow Vault, Mech, Bot, Arcatraz, Steamvaults, Shattered halls were all available for us, to do in non heroic modes and were geared towards level 70's, and later magister's terrace dropped and that was not for fresh geared 80's similar to our ICC instances. Instead the WoTLK model was ding 80 in level 76 quest greens-- and never do a single normal instance ever again. The keys kept people bound to normal instances at least for a bit; which then allowed them to get the gear they needed (blues) to clear through heroics. I mean really, I hit 80-- didn't even change gear and went and cleared heroic UK 5 box...
It's ok that you like the game easy man! There's ton of people out there like that. I however, want more instances like the last few that came out and less crap like UK.

[MiRai]

What should we be doing? Pre-Heroics?
I'm sure you remember that we needed a certain level of rep to obtain the keys to open up Heroics for most of the duration of The Burning Crusade. And yes, I would say that is the point of the "normal" dungeons [or pre-heroics], to gear you up for heroics. Heroics then, in turn, gear you up for the first raid tier. And when you hit your first raid you're wearing mostly blues, with a few greens, and maybe an epic.

The line is between normal dungeons and raiding is currently very skewed and dumbed down. I hope Blizzard can find a mix between BC and WotLK.

[Zub]

Lets call them Bravoics.
Not quite Heroes yet, but quite Brave already

[Toned]

if you've 4/5/10 boxed ICC 10 and 25 you should be able to do any heroic in cata...

[blbjtb]

"It's ok that you like the game easy man! There's ton of people out there like that. I however, want more instances like the last few that came out and less crap like UK."

That thread has become full of elietest jerks all trying to flex the E-Peen. Wow your amazing you Boxed this, that, and the other. Here is your cookie good sir. No no really here it is!

By no means am I saying I want a hand out. By no means am I saying I want a walk in the park. But I agree with multiblocks 100% in the fact that if an instance took me 2 hours to do I wouldnt play this game. Then again Multi and I seem to be the only two that are in the beta. (at least from what I can tell) You have no idea whats in store for you.

If you boxed ICC 10/25 great all that stuff is gone by 82-83 so im not really sure what you mean by this. Perhaps you mean then your good at movements and situations sure.

Look I play this game because I like the fantasy. I like to steam roll dungeons. I like to kick the crap out of people in PVP and I like to do good in raids.....

If I want to get my ass kicked I drive down to the hood with a sign around my neck that is simular to the one in Die Hard 3.....

[Catamer]

What I don't like is how they have changed the physical mechanics of the game over time.

I went back to City of Heroes that i used to play and I was impressed with how much it hasn't changed. You can pull mobs to the corner without having to worry about the mobs shooting through the walls. they have added content without breaking what the base game mechanics. The instances or quests can be solo-ed but the whole game is geared for teaming up. you're much better off on a team of 8 than solo.

World of Warcraft is more like World of Collectioncraft and Blizzard is decided that it's better for you NOT to be on a team unless in a dungeon. They don't want anyone teaming up for any reason. All quests that used to require a team have seriously dumbed down content or eliminated.
Kill quests have nearly been eliminated.
collection quests are now more complicated, you have to use something in your bag for almost every quest and they give no support to help you keep track of these quest items.
they rob you of your natural talents for those stupid vehicle/mount quests.
And the ever-so popular "only one person on the whole server can do the quest at a time"..... so if your waiting in line for about 15k other players to finish it. (when the new content just opens up )
The game is not what it once was. it used to be 60-80% simple kill quests and now its 100% collection via bag items.

If getting rid of mboxers was the goal it seems to be working, I have no desire to upgrade my 10 accounts. Right now Blizzard will be lucky if I upgrade one.

[Creazil]

I recently got into the beta, even though I haven't been playing wow for almost a year. I am currently deciding if I am going to start again, and have therefore looked upon Cataclysm from a multiboxers perspective. Here is what I've gathered so far.

It will most likely be a pain to travel (for mb'ers) with flying mounts because of the phased content. There is phased content pretty much everywhere.

I do not see quests as a big problem, as I don't see collection quests as a pain. There are a minor portion of the quests which most likely will be frustrating (weirdo flying mount quest in Hyjal cave etc) because of the heavy vehicle use. Otherwise phased content will most likely bother you more than the quest itself.

People seems to care about /click macros, and since the patch the other day macros and addons have been enabled again. Comma macros doesn't seem to working as of now, but I am not entirely sure as I never used those kind of macros (I did test it with some simple macros). If this change remain as of now, it will most likely bother some mb'ers.

As for the dungeons I haven't really done any of them. I am more concentrating on the quests as of now but when I ding 85 (tomorrow hopefully) I will check out the dungeons.

If you've got any questions about Cataclysm I think this is the place - I will do my best to answer any questions :-)

[Slats]

They have made it clear a few times in different interviews and possible posts they want the progression to be:

Ding 85
Run Normal Dungeons to get the gear required
Run Heroic Dungeons to get the gear required
Raid the first Tier of content.

I suspect CC will be required while we are in the first Tier of raid content (in the heroics) as we go up in Tier's we will outgear it and then brute force all the content and complain its 'ez-mode' and Blizzard sucks at making hard content.

When ICC 5 Mans came out everyone was whinging that they where not gonna be boxable, only the elite only the best could do it. Now a fair majority are clearing these. I too think 'heroic' difficulty should be Halls Of Reflection style hard. Perhaps not so AoE centric or chaotic but I enjoyed that challenge and only recently got co-ordinated enough to heal and dps and tank my way through Heroic mode myself.

There is nothing in Cata that says - the sky is falling.

Northrend had tonnes of collection quests, this is nothing new. We got through it.
Instances where harder at the start and got easier, this is nothing new this is just WoW Formula.

I think the main change here thats going to help boxes is the changes to Hero/Victory and Honor/Conquest points, meaning we are going to at least always have the last tier of gear no problems. So taking breaks from the game wont be a problem you'll always be able to catch up nice and easy. :)

Well those are my thoughts on it all. We'll be just fine. Even if click gets changed, we will adapt and find a way.

[Iceorbz]

"It's ok that you like the game easy man! There's ton of people out there like that. I however, want more instances like the last few that came out and less crap like UK."

That thread has become full of elietest jerks all trying to flex the E-Peen. Wow your amazing you Boxed this, that, and the other. Here is your cookie good sir. No no really here it is!

By no means am I saying I want a hand out. By no means am I saying I want a walk in the park. But I agree with multiblocks 100% in the fact that if an instance took me 2 hours to do I wouldnt play this game. Then again Multi and I seem to be the only two that are in the beta. (at least from what I can tell) You have no idea whats in store for you.


Not even sure what thread your talking about, so you lost me. This place is for people to show their E-peen, hell its what started it (thanks aelli!)

I cleared the Throne of the Tides without using CC, we just interrupted heals and plowed through most of it. The only thing we didn't accomplish was that damn ring event, it wasn't functioning. An instance shouldn't take you two hours, difficult does not mean long. If it's to hard for you then find another way to gear up, until its easier. Just because I can't multibox everything doesn't mean that I want the game to be a cakewalk.

I really do hope they follow that progression line of
- Normal 85 instances
- Heroic 85 Instance
- First Raid Tier

[wonz]

I would believe leveling using multiboxing would even be more easy than single char leveling in endgame cataclysm content (75-85).

They changed mobs to have a lot of life and to hit like a truck. So if you level 2 characters instead of one, every kind of kill quest just will be done much faster.

I only got one single account on beta, and currently leveling one of my chars in uldum. You need to use cooldowns if you pull 2 mobs, and it takes up to a minute to kill both. And they hit for 3-5k noncrit and 8-15k crit.

If you do that as a 5 toon team, it should be really easy. The collection quests are a pain in the ass, yes, but there are not many quests which need to collect a lot of items.

[Zub]

plus people need to remember that when all's said and done, you end up with 5 (FIVE) level 80, so for all i care it could take double the time that of leveling a single toon, it still wouldn't bother me.

[moosejaw]

^^ 85's ?

[Lyonheart]

I would believe leveling using multiboxing would even be more easy than single char leveling in endgame cataclysm content (75-85).

They changed mobs to have a lot of life and to hit like a truck. So if you level 2 characters instead of one, every kind of kill quest just will be done much faster.

I only got one single account on beta, and currently leveling one of my chars in uldum. You need to use cooldowns if you pull 2 mobs, and it takes up to a minute to kill both. And they hit for 3-5k noncrit and 8-15k crit.

If you do that as a 5 toon team, it should be really easy. The collection quests are a pain in the ass, yes, but there are not many quests which need to collect a lot of items.

I had one of our uber geared paladins from my raiders guild join beta a few days ago. for Hyjal questing he was like " OMG! I'm so OP! These mobs just melt!" And when he went to deepholm he was like " OMG, they need to fix paladins! I can easily die on a sing mob pull if i don't heal myself!

They might tone down the mobs in deepholm and the higher zones * 82-85 areas ) because a lot of people are QQing about soloing those zones. But yea, multiboxing them will be easy sauce!

[Multibocks]

You would do normal level 85 dungeons till your pretty much geared up through them. Just like we did in burning crusade, people ran normal "70" instances for a bit, till they could get enough to do heroics. Maybe many people have forgotten that Shadow Vault, Mech, Bot, Arcatraz, Steamvaults, Shattered halls were all available for us, to do in non heroic modes and were geared towards level 70's, and later magister's terrace dropped and that was not for fresh geared 80's similar to our ICC instances. Instead the WoTLK model was ding 80 in level 76 quest greens-- and never do a single normal instance ever again. The keys kept people bound to normal instances at least for a bit; which then allowed them to get the gear they needed (blues) to clear through heroics. I mean really, I hit 80-- didn't even change gear and went and cleared heroic UK 5 box...
It's ok that you like the game easy man! There's ton of people out there like that. I however, want more instances like the last few that came out and less crap like UK.

But people DID run normal instances in Wrath before doing heroics. You joined the boxing party late into Wrath, maybe blizzard can roll you back to 3.0 and you can really see what heroics were like tanking with 21k health. Trash packs could kill you. I understand you want a harder dungeon, but quit acting like Wrath heroics were easy when it launched. Do I need to dig up all the stupid threads were people could only do UK and part of Gundrak. Jesus it's like I'm talking to Nostalgia Man.

"Duuuuuuude, you remember Shattered Halls man??"
"yaaa that shit was soo hard"


Walking uphill both ways in snow and all that.

edit: More on track with the thread, Skywall looks super super easy with a boxing group. All the bosses, unless they are undertuned were a cakewalk.

[mikekim]

I really do hope they follow that progression line of
- Normal 85 instances
- Heroic 85 Instance
- First Raid Tier

would be quote easy to implement. all they would need is to set a minimum gear score required to enter the dungeons. that would ensure correct progression.

[Mosg2]

I'm fully expecting there to be a huge wave of "AMG THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE!!!ONE!!11" the first few months after Cata launches. It was the same with Wrath. Then people gear up properly and then blow through instances.

I haven't seen any fight so far in Cata where I said "Man, that's just not boxable." I mean come on people. Multiple people have boxed 10m ICC up to Lich King and one or two people have actually 4-boxed Lich King. That's insane. If ICC is boxable then without a doubt any and all Heroics in Cata will be doable.

If nothing else, we boxers are quite creative when it comes to problem solving in game.

[blbjtb]

On a side note I am quite happy with my DK Tank. They can really really take a beating now. Kind of upset there is no way to give abom might and imp frost talons but I think i will live.... Ancient Guardian kinda sucks 5 min cd 12 sec uptime and does 1k dmg a swing every 1.5-2 sec ugh... But he is pretty =)

[Iceorbz]

But people DID run normal instances in Wrath before doing heroics. You joined the boxing party late into Wrath, maybe blizzard can roll you back to 3.0 and you can really see what heroics were like tanking with 21k health. Trash packs could kill you. I understand you want a harder dungeon, but quit acting like Wrath heroics were easy when it launched. Do I need to dig up all the stupid threads were people could only do UK and part of Gundrak. Jesus it's like I'm talking to Nostalgia Man.

"Duuuuuuude, you remember Shattered Halls man??"
"yaaa that shit was soo hard"


Walking uphill both ways in snow and all that.

edit: More on track with the thread, Skywall looks super super easy with a boxing group. All the bosses, unless they are undertuned were a cakewalk.

The only instances I did was UK, Nexus, DTK, Azjol Nerub, and the Violet Hold. (Normal) Everything else was completed on heroic. As soon as I dinged 80, I had never set foot into a normal instance. From the time I hit 80 on my paladin, she has never done a normal instance other then the new ICC ones.

People do not do normal instances at 80, at least no one I have played with, nor do I recommend to anyone to do normal instances. I didn't join the boxing party late into wrath, not sure where you got that from. Dinged level 80 and also completed my heroic multiboxed that same day (UK). 3-28-2009

My shaman on December 8th, 2007 were only level 63 (from a mana-tombs screen shot). Even so, getting to level 80 in March is not really "joining the party late". I had to get home from deployment before I could continue leveling. I did however, have a warrior at 80 -- he also -- never did a normal instance after level 80 his first heroics were completed on Dec 14th 2008.

[Alemi]

Even so, getting to level 80 in March is not really "joining the party late".

Not to defend his point, but - yes it is. That was 2 weeks before the Ulduar patch. By the point you dinged 80, there were 4 bug/class balancing fix patches. To your point, however, I never did regular dungeons - except when farming the stupid defense trinket from Loken.

I'm not one for nostalgia, but I do look forward to BC/vanilla difficulty again. Wrath just wasn't as challenging, imho.

[offive]

Been playing beta, messing around with some macros just not /click. Servers are down right now, but I will see what I can test out when they come up. Yes there are required collection quests, just a fact of life.

I do know that cast sequence still works just fine. I also know that when I went through Twilight Higlands I was dead if I pulled more than one mob... fun fun fun. Doesn't help that none of the quests in Uldum or TH give gear.

It looks like ret pallys can be played with a handfull of keys, however holy power is a combo point system so your holy power dump keys (Templars and Divine Storm) should be seperate from your normal rotation. Art of war doesn't allow for inst cast heals anymore so you will need to get used to new timing of heals.

I have run HoO, Grim Batol, and even tanked Blackrock Caverns and I will say that most of the fights look manageable for boxing. There are some tricky things in boss mechanics and Grim has tons of trash, but I don't think it will be a show stopper.

The daily quest hub and wintergrasp replacement (Tol Barad) is interesting and I wish I had my team with me for the quests! I have a feeling daily questing in Tol Barad will be overloaded with people.

Anyway, I will report back on what I find out with the /click. I think there is a new build soon. Things change a lot... of course. :D

[Fursphere]

Many people might think, from seeing beta video's, or even trying it; This is gonna be so hard to multibox.
Remember the first months of wotlk? Even heroics were 'hard'.

I will strongly disagree with this.

When I first stepped into BC Heroics (H Slave Pens FTW - largely considered the easiest heroic in BC days) - I remember my Paladin tank getting one shot by the first pack of mobs - and he was in full blue lvl 70 gear. The normal --> heroic transition required an entirely new healing mindset (go big or go home) and perfect timing on everything ... every single pull. Then you had to farm the crap out of the few bosses you could kill (once per day) so you could move on to the next instance. There was no "skipping around". Karazhan (10 man raid) was easier than the heroics were

Fast forward to WotLK Heroics. Umm... the gimmicks made things interesting, but the it allowed for a lot of sloppy play, because they mobs didn't hit nearly as hard. You could pick almost any Wrath Heroic and be successful with a little practice.

Wrath was easy mode compared to BC. A step up in difficultly would be nice.

[Starbuck_Jones]

Wrath was easy mode compared to BC. A step up in difficultly would be nice.


I watched a 20 min vid on youtube where a group ran the 80-82 cata dungeon Blackrock Caverns. It looked quite intense and will be on par with the skills you would need to prolly box some of the icc bosses.

The first boss reminded me of sindragosa with the summon everyone and then nuke if you dont run away bit. Also the earthquake mechanic looks nasty as well.

Crowd control shouldnt be too big of an issue for us.

The last boss is going to be fun. Kiting 2 mobs that will suddenly become 1 add and the boss not on the tank...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eff6O6YVkJg

[Iceorbz]

People in beta are still not listening to Blizzard -- they are level 82, trying to do 83/84 zones. Blizzard has stated in blue at least a dozen times, finish most of the quests and level up before you move on. They expect players in full icc gear to be getting destroyed at level 83/84 if you are not using level 83/84 gear.

Most players don't listen or follow this, so it's hard to judge the true difficulty of the zones.

[Slats]

I hope they dont give in and tune it the way they want.

I understand the idea, because there is 5 levels they expect the power jump to be massive between each level.

[Lyonheart]

People in beta are still not listening to Blizzard -- they are level 82, trying to do 83/84 zones. Blizzard has stated in blue at least a dozen times, finish most of the quests and level up before you move on. They expect players in full icc gear to be getting destroyed at level 83/84 if you are not using level 83/84 gear.

Most players don't listen or follow this, so it's hard to judge the true difficulty of the zones.


me and a friend finished all the 80-82 content and quests and have a few blues from the starting 5 mans ) and the mobs are HELLA hard in Uldum and twilight highlands. You cant get anymore gear before going there. For us boxers this will not be an issue, but it will for solo players, and more so for lesser skilled players ( and WoW is 80% unskilled face rollers ) So at the very least, if the 82-85 zones stay as is when Cata goes live, it will be a system shock to casual solo players for sure.

[Shodokan]

People in beta are still not listening to Blizzard -- they are level 82, trying to do 83/84 zones. Blizzard has stated in blue at least a dozen times, finish most of the quests and level up before you move on. They expect players in full icc gear to be getting destroyed at level 83/84 if you are not using level 83/84 gear.

Most players don't listen or follow this, so it's hard to judge the true difficulty of the zones.

There are <85 instances that 85's are doing and it is taking them close to an hour to complete if not more. That is not proper attunement.

[offive]

Here's an update

They have added a number of things to beta on Friday.

Flying in old world now costs 250g per toon.
Upgrading all your flying mounts to 310% costs 4k gold (discount included)
You can buy and learn all the glyphs on each toon, than all you need is dust to overwrite the glyph when you want to change it.
It seemed like I blew about 500g on each toon upon logging them in the first time
Profession mats are going to be a bit insane at the higher levels, just massive quantities.
Guild perks look like they are going to be a nice bonus, even if the GM doesn't really get to choose what perk you get.
They finally got character copies working again (last night actually)... so I moved a bunch of classes over. Pretty early crafted greens (for toon lvl 81) are way better than the early quest rewards (ilvl 300+). Again don't bother grinding for gear too much... it's all gonna change dramatically. My ret pally gear average ilvl is 305 and he has 75k HP.

So far the only instances I have not done are Throne of Tides (80-82), Vortex Pinnacle(83-85), and Lost city of the Kolvir (85). I have dps'd in Halls of Origination (85) and Grim Batol (85). I have tanked Blackrock Caverns (80-82) and Stonecore (83-85). Grim has a huge amount of trash, but I heard some of it got nerfd in the latest build. The packs can be as many as 6... so CC is a nice to have.

So far on beta I have a pally (85), hunter (83), shaman, priest, druid, mage (all freshly copied 80s). I have played a bit of the worgen and goblin starting areas, I think the goblin area is the best in game to date. The underwater zone is fun. Archeology is a huge time sink... and until you get it higher it probably wont bring much benefit. One toon has arch lvl 100... but seems a bit stuck.

Bliz has opened up 4.0 code on the PTR, so I suggest if you want to see how the new mechanics work on a particular class you install the ptr client and copy you toon over. Some of the classes change alot as far as play style... it seems a lot more interactive.

So far it looks like my pally tank, shaman dps team will be pretty easy to play. The all pally team might be a bit more micro management intensive as Bliz has removed some key macro functionality. My original mixed group might make a comeback with some tweaks, but I need to see how the warrior tank plays. A pack of hunters will be insanely nasty burst , but I am sure hunters will get the nerf bat as usual.

I was able to setup a decent /castsequence rotation on my Elemental Shaman really quickly. Pallys now are much more interactive with holy power, I suppose you can rely on the base skills that generate holy power in your sequence and the inject a dump like Templar's Verdict for ret and SoR for prot. Hunters should be able to be sequenced pretty easily, just inject steadyshot or cobrashot in the sequence.

Yes castsequence commas are gone. /click still works but not really usefull for me. Fall through /cast doesnt seem to work anymore.

Oh and my favorite hunter pet spell is now the one Gorilla's get... fling something at the enemy! :D

[Fursphere]

Yes castsequence commas are gone. /click still works but not really usefull for me. Fall through /cast doesnt seem to work anymore.




Wait, can you expand on this? They changed the macro system so this method doesn't work anymore?!

O U C H.

Say goodbye to multi-class boxing at the higher end of things.

[Mosg2]

ISBoxer fixes the /click comma problem. It'll just take a bit of work.

[Fursphere]

ISBoxer fixes the /click comma problem. It'll just take a bit of work.

You do realize that this is the very definition of 3rd party software? If you've using a program to do something the default WoW interface CANNOT do, prepare to have your accounts nuked. If blizzard is nuking commas in castsequence macros I would not look for a way to get around it. I suspect you're refering to a "round robin" keypress setup in IS. How would you adjust for timing issues, as where commas fell into play.

[zenga]

A few weeks ago i thought that no comma's would be hell. Changed my shaman macro's without any comma's, had to reorganize some UI stuff (a way to manage my buffs/debuffs in a better way), took me a day or 2 to get used to it and i'm doing just fine, same amount of dps. We will adapt.

[kate]

A few weeks ago i thought that no comma's would be hell. Changed my shaman macro's without any comma's, had to reorganize some UI stuff (a way to manage my buffs/debuffs in a better way), took me a day or 2 to get used to it and i'm doing just fine, same amount of dps. We will adapt.

Makes my castsequence using self feel glad I never spent time trying to learn to write /clicks :D

[Khatovar]

You do realize that this is the very definition of 3rd party software? If you've using a program to do something the default WoW interface CANNOT do, prepare to have your accounts nuked. If blizzard is nuking commas in castsequence macros I would not look for a way to get around it. I suspect you're refering to a "round robin" keypress setup in IS. How would you adjust for timing issues, as where commas fell into play.

I'm guessing this (http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?t=31838) is "the plan" for it.

[Iceorbz]

There are <85 instances that 85's are doing and it is taking them close to an hour to complete if not more. That is not proper attunement.

We gotta remember combat ratings and stuff get scaled down as you level up. This is so you don't have that same 40% crit you had at level 80. It will get better, as this is working as intended!

[Mosg2]

@Fursphere:
You can't send the same keyclick to all open WoW windows with the default UI and yet it's still legal. I think you're being a little disingenous here. Just because you can't do it with the default UI doesn't mean it's illegal.

My initial idea would be to have ISBoxer have a bunch of empty steps for the buttons in question. I'm not sure--I'm just saying that I'm positive there's someway to fix it.

Boxing by it's very nature requires innovative solutions to the problems that crop up. I'm not condoning or suggesting that anyone break the ToS--But they obviously don't have a problem with ISBoxer and I'm sure the functionality exists in there right now. /shrug

We'll see what happens over the next couple weeks on the PTR.

Edit:
@Khatovar:
I read that post. It seems legal. Anyone else have thoughts to share? Like why most people don't do this now for optimal DPS as compared to using the /clicks most of us do?

[Bigfish]

Wait, can you expand on this? They changed the macro system so this method doesn't work anymore?!

O U C H.

Say goodbye to multi-class boxing at the higher end of things.

Nah, its just going to make macro writing a pain in the ass. Probably even necesitate an add-on

Edit: Yeah, you can substitute opening a trade skill for a blank. That's going to make for some long ass macros though.

[offive]

Here is a sample of my shaman rotation

/castsequence reset=combat Flame Shock,Lava Burst,Chain Lightning, Lightning Bolt, Earth Shock, Lightning Bolt, Lava Burst, Chain Lightning,Earth Shock, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning

Seems to work fine, by no means will it be max dps as Lava Burst cooldown has a chance to reset now with each lightning cast. But its a stable cast sequence.

The fall through removal means things like tacking on a /cast killshot on the end of the hunter rotation is gone. I need to play with my mage to see which spec is the easiest to box, but from what I see Fire is not it. Boomkins now have the eclipse bar, no idea how to deal with that yet. Pallies have holy power... but that just means you will have dump buttons when you build up power. Shadow priests seem to have a nice basic rotation that is not micro intensive. Add in that a pack of shadow gnomes would just be plain fun... and there you have one of my teams I will level to 85. I don't have a high level lock so I am not much help there.

As for tanking classes, I need to move a warrior and DK over to see. Pally tanking is a bit more complicated now but manageable.

I need to play with Jamba to see if I can get it to track holy power.

Hope this helps, and by all means go check out the PTR. The more people looking at this stuff the better.

[zenga]

Why on earth do you use earth shock in your rotation?

[Shodokan]

Here is a sample of my shaman rotation

/castsequence reset=combat Flame Shock,Lava Burst,Chain Lightning, Lightning Bolt, Earth Shock, Lightning Bolt, Lava Burst, Chain Lightning,Earth Shock, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning

Seems to work fine, by no means will it be max dps as Lava Burst cooldown has a chance to reset now with each lightning cast. But its a stable cast sequence.

The fall through removal means things like tacking on a /cast killshot on the end of the hunter rotation is gone. I need to play with my mage to see which spec is the easiest to box, but from what I see Fire is not it. Boomkins now have the eclipse bar, no idea how to deal with that yet. Pallies have holy power... but that just means you will have dump buttons when you build up power. Shadow priests seem to have a nice basic rotation that is not micro intensive. Add in that a pack of shadow gnomes would just be plain fun... and there you have one of my teams I will level to 85. I don't have a high level lock so I am not much help there.

As for tanking classes, I need to move a warrior and DK over to see. Pally tanking is a bit more complicated now but manageable.

I need to play with Jamba to see if I can get it to track holy power.

Hope this helps, and by all means go check out the PTR. The more people looking at this stuff the better.

Your earth shock won't be dealing enough damage to be worth using at the points you are using them at.


Why on earth do you use earth shock in your rotation?

9 earth shield charges = 22k+ crit from the talent.

[Toned]

9 earth shield charges = 22k+ crit from the talent.
Troll bad bad... it's lightning shield not earth shield thought you had leet hookups and were all knowing !

[Fuzes]

well for shamans a castsequence should just work fine (just dont spec lavasurge-> elemental warding or reverbation instead) , well as long as they dont disable the addons for longer macros ;D (full flameshock length rota (16sec)) . we will have to build trash/boss macros (switching targets while shock cd an stuff) again but i dont think thats a big problem.

it gets ugly if u have a priority/heavy procc rotation (warrior/prot pala tanks with cata , warlocks , fire mages, 3.x retri palas (art of war proccs/t10 bonus) etc..) .

well the "multiboxer only" talent builds are comming back ;D


Leveling shouldnt be a big problem (at least it wouldnt be worse than wotlk ) , instances arent "that" hard .. lvl 85 instances with max 83 green/blue gear ARE hard but i dont think we will do them with such gear when cata hits .
Archeaology will be a pain in the ass to box ;D (lol no group looting , lol random sites for every char^^)

[zenga]

I was under the impression this was his rotation for Wotlk, but obviously not. My bad.

[offive]

Ha, the thread is about Cata Beta is it not :)

So with the combo of Rolling Thunder (60% chance to add an orb on LB or CL) and Fulmination (number of orbs over 3 adds to damage of earthshock) and the Major Glyph of Lightning Shield (never go below 3 orbs), earth shocks are now in the rotation. Based on how my pally is tanking, I think I will want to lessen the threat rather then waiting for max charges to unload. Plus its something I don't have to think about. I didn't spec reverberation so I my cooldown is a little longer.

I have a suggestion for people, level up your leatherworking to get high enough ilvl gear so you don't get locked out of the dungeons via the Dungeon Finder interface. Of course I hope Bliz adds in mail for elemental shammys in the patterns. :)

BTW, leveling archaeology is insanely slooooow. I hope they bump skill points somehow.

[Shodokan]

Troll bad bad... it's lightning shield not earth shield thought you had leet hookups and were all knowing !

i mistyped >_> people should know what i meant.

[Multibocks]

I found a video on YouTube of a shaman macro that works on beta. No idea if it's good dps, but it's worth a try:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUuzTdLrISY&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Sorry if it's screwed up, I have to browse on my iPhone now at work. Stupid IT policies

Edit: go to 5 mins in

[daviddoran]

that guys macro did have commas in it, hmm. I'd venture a guess that they aren't intentionally removing commas from cast sequences, and it's merely a byproduct of them changing so much stuff in general. I wouldn't be surprised that either in a future beta build, or the final release, that commas work just fine. But if they don't, it's no big deal. We can manage. /click will still work to get large macros without getting an addon btw.

[Zub]

that guys macro did have commas in it, hmm. I'd venture a guess that they aren't intentionally removing commas from cast sequences, and it's merely a byproduct of them changing so much stuff in general. I wouldn't be surprised that either in a future beta build, or the final release, that commas work just fine. But if they don't, it's no big deal. We can manage. /click will still work to get large macros without getting an addon btw.
on that note (sorry for the off topic) is it possible to have click macros without using many action bar buttons?

[MiRai]

on that note (sorry for the off topic) is it possible to have click macros without using many action bar buttons?
The macro is told to /click an action bar button. You have 120 action bar buttons per character, are you running short?

[Zub]

The macro is told to /click an action bar button. You have 120 action bar buttons per character, are you running short?
i guess i'm only used to those visible on the bottom bar right +left (2 rows) and the 2 vertical rows on the right

[EaTCarbS]

i guess i'm only used to those visible on the bottom bar right +left (2 rows) and the 2 vertical rows on the right

There are also the bars you can shift-scroll through. Action bar addons often make these visible =)

[Khatovar]

on that note (sorry for the off topic) is it possible to have click macros without using many action bar buttons?

Super Duper Macro uses something called "floating" macros, which are not put on bars and can only be called through /click. Instead of your main click button looking like


/click MultiBarRightButton1
/click MultiBarRightButton2
/click MultiBarRightButton3
/click MultiBarRightButton4

with individual macros sitting on the above buttons, it will look like this


/click sdf_dps1
/click sdf_dps2
/click sdf_dps3
/click sdf_dps4

with the individual macros "hidden" inside the SDM infterface.

So it's possible to have click macros where only the main button is on your bars. Unfortunately, Super Duper Macro hasn't been updated in a long time and will probably die with the expansion {and I'll use it until I can't use its no more!! *fist to sky*}, but if one addon can do it, I'm sure there are or will be others with the same functionality.

[MiRai]

i guess i'm only used to those visible on the bottom bar right +left (2 rows) and the 2 vertical rows on the right
Ahh, well any bar addon will give you free reign of all 10 bars that you have. Otherwise, I believe it's 6 pages where your main bar is, the second bottom left bar, the bottom right bar, and 2 bars that attach themselves to the right of the screen in the default UI for your total 10. I could be wrong, haven't used the default UI since...........................................

I really have no idea, even back in the day I used Cosmos. :)

[Klesh]

Any info from beta on daily heroics? Do they exist? And most importantly, do they award Valor points?

[Klesh]

Any info from beta on daily heroics? Do they exist? And most importantly, do they award Valor points?

Noone able to answer that question? Or are most busy farming Garfrost........

[warbringer]

Any info from beta on daily heroics? Do they exist? And most importantly, do they award Valor points?

Heroics give Justice Points, Raids give Valor points.

[Klesh]

Heroics give Justice Points, Raids give Valor points.

That doesn't answer my question. Am talking about the daily heroic reward...

[Iru]

Ahh, well any bar addon will give you free reign of all 10 bars that you have. Otherwise, I believe it's 6 pages where your main bar is, the second bottom left bar, the bottom right bar, and 2 bars that attach themselves to the right of the screen in the default UI for your total 10. I could be wrong, haven't used the default UI since...........................................

I really have no idea, even back in the day I used Cosmos. :)

No, it's only 6 accessible bars total in the current default UI, although druids, rogues & possibly other toons that have stances get access to additional "secret" bars. Turning on the upper list of bars and the right side bars uses up parts of the six, as can been seen by trying to shift-# (e.g. shift-3) select them.

[MiRai]

No, it's only 6 accessible bars total in the current default UI, although druids, rogues & possibly other toons that have stances get access to additional "secret" bars. Turning on the upper list of bars and the right side bars uses up parts of the six, as can been seen by trying to shift-# (e.g. shift-3) select them.
Well there you go, I haven't used the default UI in 5 years.