Why Are We Hated So Much? [Archive]

Dooz

07-10-2010, 04:10 PM

I think most people are tolerant or at the least indifferent. When I first came back to boxing I had no issues at all. It wasn't until I started 5 boxing again that people started speaking up a bit. Out of those that get upset, most don't know that it's an accepted playstyle. I'll get the typical "Hax," "Cheat Much," along with other ignorant comments. I don't bother trying to convert people anymore. I turn off the chat bubbles, say chat, whisper, bg chats and any of the general chats. If I don't see it... I don't care. Anyone but my guildies becomes a NPC. I queue for randoms with my guildies (my kids), and I don't box pug raids.

If you have trouble finding a guildies to run with you, and feel like transferring or starting some freshies, you're more than welcome to come box with my guild on Firetree. There are four of us and the other 3 don't box, but are used to running with a boxer. I have toons on both sides, though I just started playing Alliance. Actually just started 5 Nelf Druids. One im boosting RAF style. The other 4 I'm leveling normally because I've never done the alliance quests.

Anyway, good luck man.

jinkobi

07-10-2010, 05:02 PM

My server is very tolerant of multiboxers. But since I'm the only one on the server it isn't too big of a deal, lol.

Although I have been very open about multiboxing on the forums and people have been surprisingly receptive. Most people are very iinterested and as always direct them to dualboxing.com to get educated ;D

Ughmahedhurtz

07-10-2010, 06:09 PM

Most of it, IMO, is people in general lacking the ability to deal with things outside of the established norms. The rest of it is just them breaking down into type after not being able to deal with us intellectually. It's really interesting listening to the range of responses you get after doing certain things as a multiboxer.

OzPhoenix

07-10-2010, 07:56 PM

It's a mixture of ignorance and arrogance.

Ignorance in that some people simply won't know what you're doing and will assume it's cheating, and arrogance in people who do know what you're doing, but believe their opinion matters more than Blizzards.

The ignorant types can be educated. The arrogant types are not worth responding to, or ever worrying about.

Velassra

07-10-2010, 08:32 PM

There was one guy on my realm, faction transfered from Alliance to Horde, now Alliance is verrrrry underpopulated on my realm (rppvp). The day after transfer, he had the balls to come onto the realm forums and complain about getting ganked by an Alliance multiboxer.....and ganked in Wintergrasp no less. It didn't go well on the forums for him from either faction.

Tonuss

07-10-2010, 08:35 PM

Bad first impressions combined with ignorance.

A person is playing his character in a contested zone or a battleground. He gets steamrolled by five characters that seem suspiciously like they're being run by a bot. His anger at being so casually one-shot is made worse by his belief that the person who did it is cheating. When he learns about multiboxing, he already has a very negative view of it, and is unlikely to consider the issue rationally.

Or...

A person is playing his character on a PVE server and watches as a group of characters that look suspiciously like bots run around nuking everything in sight. His first impression is that it's a gold farmer who is botting characters to grind gold or items. When he learns about multiboxing... see above.

I would guess that most people are very inflexible in how they reason these things out. They follow their first impression and often refuse to change, perhaps out of stubbornness, or pride, or just flat out stupidity. If you've ever followed the debates on the forums, you will notice that a good number of people use an argument like "I don't care what you say, it's cheating (or automation) and it's wrong." In other words, they made up their mind and they're not about to let things like logic and knowledge get in the way. That, to me, is the sign of someone who is upset over something that happened and has let that experience color their point of view without even trying to understand or be reasonable.

So the short answer is: People are stupid.

Toonarmy

07-10-2010, 09:32 PM

Powerwar

07-10-2010, 09:35 PM

OzPhoenix

07-10-2010, 09:36 PM

Another point to note Galaxy is that multiboxing is much more widely known and accepted now, than it used to be.

If I were single-boxing as a tank, I'd be quite happy to have a triple-boxer in my group, knowing that I could rest assured I'd have focused fire DPS backing me up.

If you're getting a period of hate, then (hopefully) it's just an unlucky run - it's been my experience nowadays that opinion has turned largely, though admittedly not exclusively, in favour of what we do.

zenga

07-10-2010, 11:04 PM

I am currently tri-boxing ele-shamans. More often than not the tank or tank/heals will ask if I'm multiboxing then drop group immediately after. I lose a tank/heal atleast one out of four groups and catch flak in others. People hate multiboxers. Other than them getting smashed in pvp does anyone know why this is?

You can't really expect single boxers to just play along with multiboxers. Nor can you expect them to 'like' it. Maybe they just leave because your gear isn't awesome enough, maybe they leave because they are uneducated about the subject and think you are cheating, or maybe they have just bad experiences with other boxers. The 30m penalty for leaving must be worth it to them.

That being said i've seen 2 types of boxers on my realm: the ones that do it for the challenge and the ones that do it to show how much they pwn. The latter ones are generally just interested in the extra force and are bloody irritating. They cause the first ones a bad name and basically I don't want to be associated with them whatsoever.

There were boxers on my realm before i started, but apparently i was the first really 'visible' one with huge online times. In the beginning i got the same 'chinese, ebay, ... ' comments. But that changed really fast when they saw me keeping it cool and answering any questions they have. Bottomline, horde on my realm is very tolerant towards boxing. I never force anyone to play along with me. In WG and AV i play for the team: guarding a tower or workshop, go for the vehicles, etc rather then trying to show off. I got a lot of alliance players making a level 1 toon to tell me all the nice things in the world. The conversation usually ends with 'thanks for explaining me about boxing' and it results in them /wave quite often when they see me in dala or in wg.

The big turn point was when they saw i was gearing up, that i was clearing dungeons, that i could solo play as a tank in their pugs or that i did pretty good dps in their VoA. They saw i was serious about my playing, that i didn't got them in trouble and that i wasn't causing any problems. Now i'm getting asked very often to join pugs.

In short: i think it depends a lot on how you act yourself how much hate you create/get.

Akoko

07-11-2010, 02:06 AM

Although I'm currently taking a break from mutliboxing, the #1 reason I get hate messages is because of taking up too many valuable BG slots with my 4 shaman. Either I would completely dominate, or I would be utterly useless and I would die so much that my toons would end up in separate graveyards.

Multiboxing in BG's seems to be mostly psychological warfare. Either they're afraid of you and their ranks become disorganized and picked off individually, or there's one blood elf with half a brain who rushes in and silences your group and the rest of the team disables and CC's you. After this first kill, they aren't afraid of you anymore and it goes downhill. Or maybe I'm just bad.

HPAVC

07-11-2010, 03:15 AM

First, why aren't you queuing them all as dps+healer or dps x2 and healer only? I am sure you would be well served by this change. The second to rule out a heal only guy joining.

Anyways dungeon queues are often all about turning the instance around quickly and not messing around with bs. If I am in a group with some guy that might be an issue, forget it I am gone (might be the response people have). That would be what I would get out of the drops in your queues.

Sure multiboxing is likely what gives them a doubt, but that's really all someone needs to have to drop a group. In the era of people waiting hours for 5+k gear scores to come knocking for crap raids, this has got to be expected.

The queue issue, not sure its ignorance entirely really, anymore than people wanting 5+k gear scores for almost every raid possible. Sure those people will be waiting for what seems like forever and that might be 'ignorant' that the content might be well in reach of half that gear score and that they would be done with the raid already if they had picked up people. But I can see their point in point in trying to weed out possible problems, especially if tanks can actual charge for queues.

Littleburst

07-11-2010, 05:48 AM

I think that for people that play BG's they might feel a little ripped off. Take this as a possible scenario.

Some dude spends eons gearing up his toon. He has some uber high epeen score (that took a long time to get I might add) and is used to killing pretty much all the undergeared BG folks. He's pretty cool (just look at his epeen rating after all). This is a good life (lets be honest here, who DOESN'T like doing this?)

Then along comes a welfare geared 5 box shammy, nothing but 10 losses a week and the WG weeklies.

Then all of a sudden Captain Epeen starts getting one or two shotted by our shammies (who have a total weekly time investment of about 45 minutes...clearly we're not as hardcore as he is...therefore not as deserving).

If I put myself in Capt Epeen's shoes I'd be kind of frustrated too. I'd be wrong to be frustrated, but I'd still be frustrated. In the end I think it comes down to sour grapes. He died. We didn't. He's pissed.

My two cents.

edits: grammar type stuff

I agree with this wise man.

I think gear makes a massive difference. I get about 1 person being not positive about boxing each week, max. I'm sitting on 6k GS x 4. 4/5 wrathfull.

When i queue for daily HC the tank mostly loves to go with me. Because there´s a good chance it´s the fastest run he´ll ever witness at the right level.

In BG it can be extremely powerfull to have 5(me + healer) 6k GS pvp´d geared player. I literally carried a team a couple of eots. The alliance was obviously retarded, but still it's good fun. If you're able to crush their morale in the first couple of minutes by slaughtering them there's a good chance you allready won.

Once you get to the point where you'll add more to your pvp or pve group then a random Pug, then you'll see the negativity drop i think.

Kruschpakx4

07-11-2010, 06:29 AM

i got that problem too, but my shamans have enough gear to clear most heroics without a tank, so in general I kick every tank instant when joining the group before he says anything and doing it on my own :p

kate

07-11-2010, 08:54 AM

I don't think we're hated, just misunderstood.

Lots of people seem to be under the impression that we're cheating - to them boxing and botting are pretty much the same thing - and they feel we're ruining a game they love. If I saw someone blatantly "cheating" I'd probably be a bit irked, too, and report them.

So when someone gets irked at me, I just direct them here to learn a little more if they want to so they understand the very big difference between botting and boxing.

Littleburst

07-11-2010, 09:20 AM

I don't think we're hated, just misunderstood.

Lots of people seem to be under the impression that we're cheating - to them boxing and botting are pretty much the same thing - and they feel we're ruining a game they love. If I saw someone blatantly "cheating" I'd probably be a bit irked, too, and report them.

Has truth in it for sure. A month ago i had a druid in my BG who was convinced i was botting and not multiboxing. So i would get reported and banned, according to him. Even when i told him i'm boxing, he still knew better what i was doing. Quite hilarious :D

EaTCarbS

07-11-2010, 09:36 AM

All I have to say is...

Haters gonna hate.

Budkin

07-11-2010, 05:32 PM

The alliance on my server hate me and my guild lol .They make horde noobs and cry to me cause we camp wg when they win.I always say you do no this is a pvp zone ?Then i tell them to complain to blizz about the crappy bg qs and i would'nt have to spend so much time in wg lol.They think when they win wg that it's safe LOL LOL LOL.I been on this server a very long time so most the horde like me.I did make 4 toons on a new server for a server event and man the hate was flying lol . I run spam me not mod most the time works wonders for hate.

Catamer

07-11-2010, 06:57 PM

jealousy... 99% of them can't afford it and have the communist attitude that nobody else should be able to since they can't. We all know how much fun it is and I bet if those others could afford it they would be doing it in a heartbeat. that sux about the instances though, pity you don't have a healer/tank combo. you would be in groups in about 1 second instead of however long it takes you to get a group with 3 dps.

Nejcha

07-11-2010, 09:15 PM

Really it's misinformation. Many people think we're something that we are not. People fear different, ask me how fun it was to get a bank loan for anything.

But like all video games people remember every time they had a bad experience with something the will snap to judge.

Just like when I see a prot-a-din or some one with a night fall title I assume they are a failure. The same goes for us. We're judged by the worst of us not the best.

Mickthathick

07-12-2010, 01:38 AM

Just like when I see a prot-a-din or some one with a night fall title I assume they are a failure.

I'm curious, why?

Domineek

07-12-2010, 02:14 AM

Like others have mentioned, its probably because of a bad first experience with a multiboxer, and have since been quick to associate that with any other multiboxer they meet. Unfortunately, yes there are some that multibox just to get that extra firepower in pvp and have been uncool (for a SFW term) with camping or other like behavior. Not all multiboxers are like that. Some just want to raid, an extra challenge, run a group with just them, other personal reasons, or all of the above. I just say, don't let the actions of one give the impression thats how the group as a whole is. If not, I'd think every undead rogue was a ganker who does nothing but camp corpses and grief quest givers in low level areas. :p

genocyde

07-12-2010, 09:00 AM

Yeah, on my server / battlegroup it's definately not jealousy. The horde side tolerates their boxers very well. They give them a chance in wintergrasp they don't always have. They are underpopulated and boxers are like mini heroes....

However due to this the alliance side has hated their own boxers for a long time. It's just now starting to come around since there is 2 or 3 alliance side boxers now. It used to be anywhere i went i got spit on or called a noob or Bud-spy (Budkins are the well known horde boxer on my server). When I stopped PvPing and starting keeping to PvE only and single-box raiding all of the sudden it's this huge benefit they can call on when it helps them. Even for PvP occasionally I'll get asked to go "deal with x" thats causing someone problems.

It doesn't help that boxers constantly camp our wintergrasp vendors while we control them.... Which is borderline griefing and reportable 'to them'.

Now on the other hand, once I rolled a multiclass team with non-related names. No matter how much coordination or autofollow I use, noone realises or cares that I'm boxing.

So, in short, the better you are the more you are alienating your opposing faction against boxers. And it seems to be only iconic 5 shaman teams that make everyone rage.

Owltoid

07-12-2010, 09:37 AM

I recently went into some BGs with my Owltoids. I took a break for a couple months, and then started leveling other teams, so my druids haven't received any gear love in a long time. People in the BG complained... rightfully so IMO. I couldn't hold my own against one or two enemies with gear. I was taking up five slots and certainly not as powerful as five geared toons.

I basically learned that this late in the expansion, you need to gear up through PvE (badges) before PvP. For new teams, do as many BGs as you can while leveling so you can buy gear and hit 80 with some decent items.

For the most part I'm just waiting for the gear reset in Cata.

genocyde

07-12-2010, 10:14 AM

Maybe we aren't hated.... maybe the wow community is just a hateful lot and we take it personally because we get hit with 5x the grief of a single person. We just need 5x thicker skin.

jinkobi

07-12-2010, 10:24 AM

It's also how you handle the situation. If you take some time to explain to the curious you will actually start having people defend you that don't even multibox.

Last night I was showing off my team to a friend in Ironforge... Really only one negative comment as some guy passed by he goes "weak". The majority of the gawkers were like WOW! That's amazing! What's with all the druids?! How do you do that?!

So I went ahead and had a little multiboxing educational session right there and left them more interested than anything else.

Just because you can do things such as camp the WG quartermaster doesn't mean you should. Intentionally trying to piss people off- catch them by surprise while they're trying to just run in and exchange honor out. Not cool Booboo.

Griefing people really turns the tide in their arguement against us.

HTeam

07-12-2010, 12:58 PM

From the opposing faction I see the hatred coming from two groups:
1. The noob, who hates anyone who beats them easily chooses the boxer for their focus.
2. The player with more /played than the boxer and claims we need to "get a life". This guy wants things back to normal where his highly geared player can rampage through a disorganized undergeared group instead of running into a boxer.

I've said before that using teamwork in the battlegrounds is akin to cheating. This really impacts the boxer.

The hatred from the same faction is bizarre though. Some people really think you are botting, I suppose this is legitimate. Most of those are quickly converted when I actually talk to them. On Crushride/Cyclone, this is fairly rare. I get lots of cheers in BG's and the worst I get from the tank/healer is usually, "you better not suck".

Nejcha

07-12-2010, 01:22 PM

I'm curious, why?
Off topic answer:
I was going with the "being judged by the majority not the minority." The longer reason is that I find it's the tanking class that requires less skill at lower "gear and level" encounters so more etards are perceived as good at it. So they go months gearing up thinking. "How good am I! I can hold some aoe mobs in a heroic ho ho ho." One day they end up going to a raid and whipeing some one because as it turns out they can't move out of anything, or follow simple instructions. Their are so many of them around on my server, when they as "room for a prot pallie." I say "Nope, how's your ret set?" I mean I'm judgeing them by the not only by there spec but the legions of ones who've failed me in the past. (Kara joke hehe) I have yet to have one surprise me... since BC of running many pug raids.

Err but on topic! I find that if you're nice enough to people when they ask what you're doing, people generally respond in kind. Not be a bitch/dick/ahole and think multiboxing gives you a self entitled "Better then everyone" mentality. Same goes with how much hate I see in these forums for hard core raiders and their gearz! So many feel self entitled to be jerks allot of people just judge all of them by it.

So if you're proud of multiboxing, share the pride with a smile I say. It can help people on your server learn to love, not hate you. Feathermoon took like two years to undo the damage of some multiboxers who showed up after me caused. Some one calls us a bot or unfair (or anything in the top 10 list)in trade, they get flamed now... by more people then you'd think.

Nejcha

07-12-2010, 01:27 PM

If not, I'd think every undead rogue was a ganker who does nothing but camp corpses and grief quest givers in low level areas. :p

On our server Dom? I think they all are...

Domineek

07-13-2010, 07:40 AM

On Crushride/Cyclone, this is fairly rare. I get lots of cheers in BG's and the worst I get from the tank/healer is usually, "you better not suck".
When do you usually do BGs? Even if its a /wave instead of some pvp'ing, it'd be pretty cool to see another multiboxer in a Cyclone BG. I think I've only seen 2, maybe 3, other multiboxing groups (not from Feathermoon) in a BG.

HTeam

07-13-2010, 02:19 PM

When do you usually do BGs? Even if its a /wave instead of some pvp'ing, it'd be pretty cool to see another multiboxer in a Cyclone BG. I think I've only seen 2, maybe 3, other multiboxing groups (not from Feathermoon) in a BG.

I'm playing Eve Online at the moment. I'm taking a break from paying for 4 accounts right now.

I'm loving that I can pay for my accounts with in-game money in Eve.

Maxion

07-14-2010, 04:48 AM

I'm playing Eve Online at the moment. I'm taking a break from paying for 4 accounts right now.

I'm loving that I can pay for my accounts with in-game money in Eve.

Some people do that in WoW. Just ask Shodokan.

Dramoth

07-14-2010, 05:55 AM

If I get some hate my usual reply is "Yes, I run a full group so I don't need to party with idiots like you". Usually works miracles.

Other than that, most people that know me on my server are quite happy to see me around... except the guy that says my totems make his FPS go down and he barely can play when around me :)

yup... I am going to take a week off and really start hammering the druid team shortly :D then the two of us can go and steamroll BG's like crazy :D

I have had a couple of people come running up asking me whats going on. A few seem to think that I am cheating and one guy even said I was disrespecting the game by boxing... I mean, I have 6 solo level 80's I have levelled up and some of them are very well geared. I raid on 4 of them with the other 2 only being part time low level raiders so how could I be disrespecting the game by deciding that I wanted to be able to do instances without having to do them with some of the pug idiots you get out there.

I rarely pvp so I cant be accused of ganging up on people and the like.

I like the people who ask questions... dislike the idiots who think that I am cheating.