Multiboxing Priests

[Owltoid]

Edit: I've renamed this thread and hope to use it as a collection of thoughts for the holy/disc multiboxing priest teams. I will link new videos of the team here, and hope to have most discussion be collected in this thread instead of multiple threads. Of course any direct questions about the team should be created in a new thread, but I will try to link to those as needed.

Video threads:
At level 75: http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?t=31085
At level 69: http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?t=30952


Original post:

I was sooo excited. Holy/disc priests were going to own for multiboxing:

Through talents, the following was going to be possible:

Reduced cooldown on holy nova
+50% chance to crit with holy nova
50% chance to get a mana free instant smite on any spell crit
Smites smart heal nearby friendly units
Every smite stacks archangel, release 5 stacks to get 15% mana back
Divine aegis that continues stacking with every holy nova crit received for more protection

That combo was going to be huge. Since multiboxers are always grouped together, the 50% crit to holy nova gives you instant smite almost every time. Holy nova, smite, holy nova, smite, holy nova, smite, release stacks if you need mana.

Assuming only a 50% crit chance with holy nova, and hitting all your party members, each priest would have a 76% chance to proc an instant smite (if there are enemies that got caught in the AoE then the chance increases).

I've already been running 4 priests in PvP and they have been dominating (60-69 bracket). I understand things would be much different at 80 with geared opponents, but that 50% buff was going to be huge.

I've been using my priest as melee, and likely leading with a DK (currently only using the 4 priests, may move to 5). If targets are far, snipe them with holy fire and smite spam. Once they get close, the AoE tears them up. Using IWT and CLM you're always facing for instant smites.

If they AoE your team, the caster gets hurt worse (45% reflection on shields for each priest).

I hope this team doesn't go away... I've been having more fun with these toons that I ever did with my moonkins, DK+pallys, and shamans. They're incredible.

[Mosg2]

Why do you say maybe not anymore?

[Owltoid]

Maybe there will be something similar with Cata, but with the talent changes, who knows. My current build (expected) was 44/27/0. Enough to get Pain Suppression, Divine Aegis (mini shields), and Surge of Light. That type of hybrid built wouldn't work with the new talent design as I didn't go deep enough to get Guardian Spirit in Holy or Penance in Disc.

[Mosg2]

That's a really interesting concept. Do you have any videos you've recorded? I'd be interested in trying this out but I'd love to see it in action first.

Hmm.

[Owltoid]

I can try and take a video tonight, though I've never done anything like that. My priests are about to hit 70 so I may only have a few more BGs left. Remember that it's going against lower level toons in the 60-69 bracket, but I offset that with not having the +50% crit chance that was predicted to come with Cataclysm.

Any quick and dirty suggestions on how to take a video? I won't have time for editing, but I doubt anyone cares about that if they just want to see a proof of concept.

[Shodokan]

I can try and take a video tonight, though I've never done anything like that. My priests are about to hit 70 so I may only have a few more BGs left. Remember that it's going against lower level toons in the 60-69 bracket, but I offset that with not having the +50% crit chance that was predicted to come with Cataclysm.

Any quick and dirty suggestions on how to take a video? I won't have time for editing, but I doubt anyone cares about that if they just want to see a proof of concept.

pennence will be a level 10 talent.

[Mosg2]

You can download Fraps for free and take up to 30 seconds of video. It'll take like, a minute.

[Owltoid]

Not sure how to make it in HD. No editing or added music, just the basics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgJv3EjxkI4

This is really only using holy nova, smite, and PW: Death. I have plans for the following:

-dispel chains, including a fear ward rotation
-the use of fear (amazing for a priest, I know)
-the use of PW:Shields (again, I'm missing even the basics in this video)
-different heals, especially PoM on whomever needs it
-DoTs

So much more that I need to do with the team, but I was having fun with the basics and haven't made the time to make them more well rounded yet.

Some of it is pretty embarassing. Such as not dispelling the sheep (I don't have anything like that keybound yet), forgetting to turn on my key broadcasting, etc. However, with that much survivability there is a ton of room for error.

[Redbeard]

What was your team?

Im still rolling druid tank, ret pally fury warrior enhancement shaman priest.

Should really with hold the doom and gloom til we see the new trees.

[Owltoid]

pennence will be a level 10 talent.

I don't care about penance. I wasn't even going to get it. I have little use for a channeled spell, though it would be nice with archangel and that other ability that allows you to move while channeling.

[Firstcow]

So how are you gonna kill stuff at 85? Smite ppl to death? What if they kite you and hit you from range?

[Iceorbz]

I don't care about penance. I wasn't even going to get it. I have little use for a channeled spell, though it would be nice with archangel and that other ability that allows you to move while channeling.

Don't know why you would not care about one of the most op healing spells in the game.
Penance is pro, you dont even have to follow your target just hit it and it will turn lol. I can think of plenty of good uses for penance, and its a DPS Spell.

[remanz]

Not sure how to make it in HD. No editing or added music, just the basics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgJv3EjxkI4

This is really only using holy nova, smite, and PW: Death. I have plans for the following:

-dispel chains, including a fear ward rotation
-the use of fear (amazing for a priest, I know)
-the use of PW:Shields (again, I'm missing even the basics in this video)
-different heals, especially PoM on whomever needs it
-DoTs

So much more that I need to do with the team, but I was having fun with the basics and haven't made the time to make them more well rounded yet.

Some of it is pretty embarassing. Such as not dispelling the sheep (I don't have anything like that keybound yet), forgetting to turn on my key broadcasting, etc. However, with that much survivability there is a ton of room for error.

hmm I get where you come from. This holy nova thing looks OP. You can keep the mana up NP ?
If that's the case, it is more like broken.

It kills kinda slow, but that is expected for the mad healing it provides. Stacking it reminds me of blood DK self-healing stacking. The healing is just too good. I, personally, wouldn't put my money on it as Blizzard have a habit of nerfing these. But for now, it looks very good

[Mosg2]

I reread the talents--You still only have a 50% chance of getting your instant Smite. I thought it was 100%. So instead of Nova/Smite/Nova etc it's much more likely you go Nova/Nova/Smite etc or even Nova/Nova/Nova/Smite etc. Shrug.

[Owltoid]

I reread the talents--You still only have a 50% chance of getting your instant Smite. I thought it was 100%. So instead of Nova/Smite/Nova etc it's much more likely you go Nova/Nova/Smite etc or even Nova/Nova/Nova/Smite etc. Shrug.

With one nova, assuming it hits your entire party (and excluding any enemies), you have a 76% chance of getting a free smite for each priest (assuming only a 50% crit).

Here's the math assuming a 50% crit chance for holy nova (very pessimistic since you'll have more crit from gear)
For every target hit you hit you have a 50% chance to NOT crit.
For every target hit that you do crit on, you have a 50% chance to NOT get a free smite.
Your chance of NOT getting a free smite for a target hit in the holy nova is 50% + 50%*50% = 75%
If you hit 5 targets (your party) with holy nova, that means for you to not proc a smite you have to have five failures. The chance of failure calculated above is 75%. To get five failures, it's 75%*75%*75%*75%*75% = 24%
So if your chance of five failures is 24%, that means your chance of at least one success is 100%-24% = 76%

If you get an enemy with the holy nova, then your chance of success goes up (to 1-.75^6 = 82%). Two enemies caught turns into 87%.

The nice part is that the damage on holy nova is likely crit healing some of your party memeber, causing Divine Aegis to proc and stacking huge (remember, every priest is casting it and there's a ton of chance for receiving crit heals which is going to put lots of mini bubbles on you... even in the current build w/o the 50% crit I see 2-3 mini bubbles on my toon during holy nova spamming). Your GCD for your holy nova is reduced by 1 second, meaning that within two seconds (cast HN, cast smite) you healed your whole party, did an instant smite to an enemy, and smart healed with your smite.

Holy sh*t...

The thing is, this system only works for multiboxers! That's why they may not change it. For this system to work, you need your party bunched up the entire time... something not likely to happen with five solo boxers.

[Owltoid]

hmm I get where you come from. This holy nova thing looks OP. You can keep the mana up NP ?
If that's the case, it is more like broken.

It kills kinda slow, but that is expected for the mad healing it provides. Stacking it reminds me of blood DK self-healing stacking. The healing is just too good. I, personally, wouldn't put my money on it as Blizzard have a habit of nerfing these. But for now, it looks very good

If you watch the video, you can see that mana can be a bit of a problem, though I was able to take out two large groups of horde with only one mana pool (killed them, then they rezzed nearby in EoTS and I killed them again).

However, remember that with the proposed talents (who the hell knows now), for every smite you cast you get a stack of Archangel. You can release up to 5 stacks for 3% mana per stack, so 15% mana. Considering those smites were mana free, your holy nova is being reduced in cost through archangel, the only thing using up your mana is holy nova spam. So far things don't last that long with the spam.

The videos shown are sooo far from the true potential. I didn't purge my target, I didn't put shields on my toons for reflective damage, I didn't use 4x shadowfiends, etc. I just wanted to go on record with what I'm guessing was going to be the new FOTM in the multiboxing world before it became impossible with the changes to the talent trees.

[Owltoid]

Don't know why you would not care about one of the most op healing spells in the game.
Penance is pro, you dont even have to follow your target just hit it and it will turn lol. I can think of plenty of good uses for penance, and its a DPS Spell.

To get penance you have to give up Surge of Light... pretty much what this build is based on.

This is why I hate the idea of being locked into a talent tree. I understand most are cookie cutter mindsets and giving up the 51, or 41 point talents is ludacris to some, but builds like the one I've proposed are what makes this game entertaining to me.

Unfortunately this build will likely die with the expansion. It requires mid level talents on both trees... something not proposed to be possible as of yesterday.

[Owltoid]

So how are you gonna kill stuff at 85? Smite ppl to death? What if they kite you and hit you from range?

4x holy fire hits hard... very hard. I would gladly enter into a ranged war with anything but a hunter. I can heal with ease, and even though smite isn't the strongest spell in the game 4 or 5 of them make a nice dent. Not to mention there are plenty of DoTs to apply. If I'm taking damage, do a quick holy nova to heal my guys up and it likely procced some instant smites.

In my experience so far, if I can snipe with the priests it's the best. Eventually someone figures out what is going on and they swarm. This group can handle a swarm 10x better than my moonkins ever could (though starfall did kill lots).

[Oatboat]

I have 4 holy priests i've been messing around on. You're very right about Holy Fire. Its a beast and the cast time is so fast.. just wish there was less of a cooldown.

Smite and Holy fire are very low mana too, you really only start going oom when you start spamming Holy Nova. Very fun though.

[drevil]

looks fun to play :-)

well, blizzard will redo all talent trees... we have to wait

[Mosg2]

I understand what you're saying about the percentages... But the talent Surge of Light says "Your spell criticals have a 50% chance to cause your next Smite or Flash Heal spell to be instant cast, cost no mana but be incapable of a critical hit. This effect lasts 10 seconds."

So... Does it count each Holy Nova as one single event that gets the 50% applied to it OR does it count each person it crits as one event that gets the 50% chance applied to it? You tell me--You've got the toons :) Obviously I hope it's number two but I'd like to see ze proof.

[Kruschpakx4]

we have to wait

this

[Owltoid]

I understand what you're saying about the percentages... But the talent Surge of Light says "Your spell criticals have a 50% chance to cause your next Smite or Flash Heal spell to be instant cast, cost no mana but be incapable of a critical hit. This effect lasts 10 seconds."

So... Does it count each Holy Nova as one single event that gets the 50% applied to it OR does it count each person it crits as one event that gets the 50% chance applied to it? You tell me--You've got the toons :) Obviously I hope it's number two but I'd like to see ze proof.

If any part crits, then you have a chance for Surge of Light. All I'm casting is holy nova, and it's certainly not critting on every one of my toons, but I'm still proccing Surge of Light. You can watch the video and look in the upper right to see much buffs... all I'm doing is spamming holy nova and you can see I'm getting Surge of Light.

[Mosg2]

You're missing my point. Even if it had 100% crit rate you're still only getting at most 50% chance at a Surge of Light proc... Because it says it only has a 50% chance to go off when you crit.

Unless it counts EACH time it crits per cast as a chance to get a Surge of Light proc. See what I mean?

[Tehmuffinman]

You're missing my point. Even if it had 100% crit rate you're still only getting at most 50% chance at a Surge of Light proc... Because it says it only has a 50% chance to go off when you crit.

Unless it counts EACH time it crits per cast as a chance to get a Surge of Light proc. See what I mean?

It does. It is recalculated on a per crit basis, that is where his numbers are coming from.

[ghonosyph]

Seems everyone is freakin out about the new trees, but if you actually read into their intentions you'll see that tho they may be locking you in to a certain role from the get go, that you're also receiving a ton of talent stuff as normal passive gains.

They WANT to make talents that affect your choices, cool stuff, fun stuff, yet at the same time make it more of a balanced type of tree. If I were you I would hold the OMGWTF for later, because your going to be surprised at the outcome imo. Enjoy the power now because the game is changing big lol. I see it as a fresh look, especially for new players. Learning is part of the leveling process, and the tree lock out thing isn't going to affect us at the levelcaps as much as you might want to believe.

Bliz has an intention, to make talents "take-able". :) let's wait and see what wonderous new stuff they come up with! ^.^ lolol

[Kruschpakx4]

even you know already the talents, the rng of many abilities will be changed and the beta rng is bugged so you can't know how strong every abilitiy will be until 4.0 live

[Monk3yv]

Being able to survive like that is awesome, the thought of 5 chain heals is what made me want to 5 box, I don't know why i never considered 5x holy novas heh. And you are able to kill things on top of that.
I'm sure I'm not the only one that went into bg's with multiple healing classes and wtfhealed the crap out of my team, this is even better!

But yes like everyone said, it's time for a "Wait and see" attitude.

[SmartJelly]

Thanks for getting the video sorted, stopped my little mind getting bogged down on the theory. Good job on putting it into practise, I hope it works out for you. Looking forward to the seeing you in action when you've perfected things :)

[genocyde]

I was holding my breath for this same team. I've played priest main since 1.0 and after having mild success wtih my priest + 4mage team and seeing how well arcane explosion backed with 1 holy nova worked... well my brain went churning when i saw that holy nova buff.

I was looking at the holy talent Improved Holy Nova a lot though. It reduced the GCD of holy nova by 0.5 seconds! In addition to other holy nova buffs, I would not give up hope on this yet. I'm still planning on finishing my priest team just out of curiousity. I'm still debating on driving with a DK or something other than a 5th priest but who knows until Cat goes live.

Edit: Improved Holy Nova talent is the one you were talking about anyway. I was just more excited about the GCD reduction than the 50% crit chance.... awesome.

[Multibocks]

This is ..... Insane! Makes me want to finish leveling my priest team. They better not fuck this up!

[ghonosyph]

OKAY Sooo i did some playing with the new talent tree release thus far... owltoid take a look and tell me are you still freaking out about your spec and blizzard ruining the cookie jar? :P roflmao

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?priest#Y1klNcfI,,12479

i might like to move a point into arch angel tho, that looks fun :)

[Owltoid]

I'm blocked from seeing the new talent tree, but did get on a Bloomberg machine for a little unfiltered access. I couldn't play with things much, but what I did see was the synergy talents were all 11 points plus in both trees. On a brief glance, you're basically forced to go holy for the instant smites, but you're missing all the nice things that you have in WotLK (divine aegis, reflective shield, etc).

I'll check out your talent build at lunch when I'm going home to get unfiltered access. At a glance, this team is not going to grow in power much, and likely will not be as good at 85 as it is at WotLK 80. I'm not going to give up on them yet, because they're a ton of fun, and I'm still hoping Blizzard does away with the retarded 31 point talent is a must, but I doubt it. I don't blame Blizzard for doing what they did, as they are catering to the larger player base, but that doesn't mean I'm personally happy about it.

[Owltoid]

OKAY Sooo i did some playing with the new talent tree release thus far... owltoid take a look and tell me are you still freaking out about your spec and blizzard ruining the cookie jar? :P roflmao

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?priest#Y1klNcfI,,12479

i might like to move a point into arch angel tho, that looks fun :)

Your spec is pretty close to what I would use, but IMO it still sucks compared to what is available now.

You're missing pain suppression, divine aegis, reflective shield, smite takes 0.2 seconds longer, and stronger shields.

By being forced to go deeper into the holy tree, you're gaining more powerful heals, speed boost from PW:Shield, CoH, and a ton of wasted talents (renew buffs, Chakra, lots of things that proc of heals you'll rarely use).

The changes to Cata are nice, and there are some cool abilities that didn't have before, but forcing you into holy build to get Surge of Light makes a good portion of the talent tree worthless. People said we had wasted talents before because things would buff by 1/2/3% or whatever, but by forcing us into one talent tree for the majority of our points I see more wasted talents than before.

[drevil]

not too bad, but how much damage can you pull off with it?

http://www.wowtal.com/#k=vz_CIwKDk.9mn.priest

[Owltoid]

not too bad, but how much damage can you pull off with it?

http://www.wowtal.com/#k=vz_CIwKDk.9mn.priest

The problem is your build is impossible. You are FORCED to get the 31 point talent in at least one tree, only allowing for 10 points for the other trees. I haven't looked at the details of your build, but if it was possible, I'd be extremely happy (it's still possible they'll change the proposed system to remove the 31 points forced, but I doubt it... I think they're doing this because they want it much easier to balance things and the easiest way to do that is force cookie cutter).

[Owltoid]

If it was possible, I'd go with a talent tree similar to this:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?priest#vP93mn1fR,,12479

C'mon Blizzard... don't force us into 31 points... make us give up mastery talents or something. Seriously, if mastery talents are that good, then most people will go into them anyway. Don't take away our options!

[drevil]

The problem is your build is impossible. You are FORCED to get the 31 point talent in at least one tree, only allowing for 10 points for the other trees. I haven't looked at the details of your build, but if it was possible, I'd be extremely happy (it's still possible they'll change the proposed system to remove the 31 points forced, but I doubt it... I think they're doing this because they want it much easier to balance things and the easiest way to do that is force cookie cutter).

didn't know that.. shame on blizzard

well then the only chance is that they move holynova talents down a little bit

[Owltoid]

didn't know that.. shame on blizzard

well then the only chance is that they move holynova talents down a little bit

The only chance is that Blizzard removes the requirement for 31 points into one tree and allows hybrid builds. I'd put that at 10%.

[drevil]

The only chance is that Blizzard removes the requirement for 31 points into one tree and allows hybrid builds. I'd put that at 10%.


they already put some fancy gui stuff in for it... now way they gonna remove it now :(

[Maxion]

They are forcing 31 points in the tree, but I think you may be able to skip the actual 31 point talent if you put the points elsewhere, though in most cases you'll want it if you're already that far in the tree.

[Owltoid]

I can't imagine skipping the 31 point talent if forced to go 31 points.

On a fun note, this morning I was doing my Grizzly Hills daily with my priests (lvl 73-74). With a few mobs on me, an 80 warrior decided to try and gank. I don't think he was exceptionally well geared, and looked prot spec, but all my priests survived and he gave me +1 horde units killed :) These priests have incredible survivability. I guess with them going holy spec they will have even more... I'm going to miss reflective shields.

[Firstcow]

I can't imagine skipping the 31 point talent if forced to go 31 points.

On a fun note, this morning I was doing my Grizzly Hills daily with my priests (lvl 73-74). With a few mobs on me, an 80 warrior decided to try and gang. I don't think he was exceptionally well geared, and looked prot spec, but all my priests survived and he gave me +1 horde units killed :) These priests have incredible survivability. I guess with them going holy spec they will have even more... I'm going to miss reflective shields.

I just hope you will have enough killing power against high resil targets at 80, otherwise it becomes a mana issue. They will harrass you until you run OOM and then they will kill you.

[Owltoid]

Mana definitely seems to be the biggest enemy to this team (that and fear). I think I'm ok with that, though. I've been searching for a high survivability, medium damage team for awhile, and I finally found one. They will be able to hold a node in BGs pretty well, I'm guessing.

With 5 priests, that's 10 DoTs, purges, and decent burst damage. Should be able to take out high resil targets. I'm guessing they'd do well against single healing teams (I'm only thinking BGs with them, but I still think in terms of going against a team of 5), but a double healing or triple healing team will give them problems.

Who knows... archangel may solve the mana problems, and if every other holy nova is mana free then they may be ok.

[Owltoid]

The priests are 77 now, and I've learned a ton about the team. Here's a collection of random thoughts:

-This team is not dead for Cata. The 0.5 GCD for holy nova, along with every other one being mana free, is going to be powerful.

-Removing the party only restriction for holy nova is going to make AV extremely fun. I can imagine a mass of alliance huddling around my priests as we move like one blob of death. I can see this getting nerfed

-Fear is a problem with this team, though I'm getting better at it. I used to have my 'dispel other' set up as a moving round robin (can explain in more detail if requested) which didn't work that well. Now that I have it set up where Thatuglyguy always dispels Whichuglyguy, and Whichuglyguy always dispels Otheruglyguy, the breaking of fear is working well. However, they do get fairly spread apart in that short amount of time, and while they are seperated they are at risk (not in range of other holy novas)

-Since my toons are having fun being in the high part of the bracket, I'm not in any rush to get them to 80. I will likely stop questing altogether on the priests, and only use them for WG and PvP during the weekends. In the meantime, I am leveling up my shaman team

-I am seriously considering using a shaman as my fifth member. I think with the Cataclysm changes, I will have more than enough healing and I'd prefer to have an extra protection against fear, automatic removal of poisons and disease, and the use of thunderstorm. I have thought about all classes that I could use as a fifth, and after playing this team for a good number of hours, it seems clear to me that fear is my biggest weakness (though not nearly as bad as my moonkin team).

-Still need to figure out how to kill hunters. They don't take me down, but they waste so much of my mana that it's very inefficent to go against them. This probably boils down to me needing to improve my single target healing

-I don't think the mastery system is going to help this team at all in Cataclysm. I rarely use direct heals and will not benefit from applied HoT that it leaves on the target. I'm hoping that if it's the case where the mastery system does not help then reforging will allow me to change the stats into something I could use, like more spellpower (I'm still unclear on the new stat system and reforging).

-I love assaulting mine in AB. Jumping off the edge, surprising the defenders, holy novaing to heal the massive fall damage and put me at 100% health, profit. It's nowhere near as fun as my moonkins defending LM with stealth and staggered typhoons or shamans and thunderstorm, but it's a good time.

[Fat Tire]

-I am seriously considering using a shaman as my fifth member. I think with the Cataclysm changes, I will have more than enough healing and I'd prefer to have an extra protection against fear, automatic removal of poisons and disease, and the use of thunderstorm. I have thought about all classes that I could use as a fifth, and after playing this team for a good number of hours, it seems clear to me that fear is my biggest weakness (though not nearly as bad as my moonkin team).


That totem will no longer exist in any form in cata.

[Owltoid]

That totem will no longer exist in any form in cata.

Hmm, thanks for the info. I know there are quite a few shaman experts on this forum so it would be good to know any additional thoughts on the synergy. The removal of that totem isn't huge for this team since priests can remove poisons and diseases, but it was going to be nice to have it passive.

[Maxion]

-I love assaulting mine in AB. Jumping off the edge, surprising the defenders, holy novaing to heal the massive fall damage and put me at 100% health, profit. It's nowhere near as fun as my moonkins defending LM with stealth and staggered typhoons or shamans and thunderstorm, but it's a good time.

You REALLY should use levitate for that.

[Owltoid]

You REALLY should use levitate for that.

Hmmm, good point. I should get the minor glyph to remove reagants. I've never, ever, used that spell, and my first toon (at Vanilla release) was one of the priests I'm playing.