Wotlk - Icecrown Citadel - (ICC) - Trash Farming

[OzPhoenix]

So myself and another 5-boxer decided to try our hand at building up some Ashen Verdict rep.

The run was going really well. We'd just about cleared the first room, for 435 rep, when inevitably, we tripped one of the hidden alarms.

So out we run, and we strategize our encounter with the Deathbound Ward.

We had 6 Paladins (2 Prot, 4 Ret), 4 Shamans (all Ele). What we found was some really hard to understand behaviour on the Wards part.

We decided that my friends prot would tank, with his shamans at range. Once he had the Ward positioned and faced away from the rest of the group, I'd then run in (my prot had Righteous Fury turned off), position my prot on top of his with my rets behind the Ward (on the same "side" as the Shamans).

The problem was, the Ward just refused to adhere to the tank - he kept going for my friends Shamans (which, of course, didn't last long), or for me or my Rets (who also didn't last too long). Even more strangely, one time this worked as planned and we get the Ward down to 500k health before (very unfortunately) the prot with RF up died (and my guys were below his shamans on threat).

This seems to be bound up in the Wards Saber Lash attack, but beyond that, we can't figure out why he keeps ignoring the tank. We know he's untauntable, but presumably if the tank builds up a threat lead and holds it, the Ward really ought to be never focusing on anyone but the tank..... shouldn't he?

[jimbobobb]

What did omen say? Does your friends' paladin have awful tps? Also unless you guys were farming 25-man, simply having one tank eat all of the cleave is perfectly fine. Also you can tank them at the door with your shamans at max range outside, so even if he does go for the shamans, he'll reset.

[OzPhoenix]

What did omen say? Does your friends' paladin have awful tps? Also unless you guys were farming 25-man, simply having one tank eat all of the cleave is perfectly fine. Also you can tank them at the door with your shamans at max range outside, so even if he does go for the shamans, he'll reset.

It wasn't threat - as a test, one on attempt we had his Shammies sit there fat, dumb and happy doing their nails, and they still got clobbered.

Though thanks for the placement tip, we'll make sure to put 'em outside the room next time.

Likewise, putting my team in between him and his Shammies the Ward would go for me within a second or two of hitting on the tank, even though I'd done nothing but stand there.

[Klesh]

Maybe his tank smells funny and he just wants to get away from him? On a more serious note, no idea what's wrong. The wards got nerfed big time from release (maybe it's just the 20+% buff, not sure, but the rep got nerfed, so...). Where we had trouble with 2 healers at the beginning it's now no problem at all to do it with one healer. I don't move my DPS too far away from him either. I just spank him with my pally for 2 seconds and go all out with the nukes. We are doing this with just 6, tank, healer, 4 casters.

[Noids]

I haven't raided ICC for a couple of months now but I did get 7/12 on my DK tank and ele sham before the buff came along. I always noticed with the Wards that regardless of whether me or the other tank I was running with held agro, he did seem to switch to the other tank fairly regularly. I am not sure exactly about the mechanic behind this but it did not seem to be purely agro based and as you mentioned, not taunting. I would suggest putting 2 tanks in range and in front of the ward even if the second is just on autoattack to prevent your dps getting mauled.

PS: I did do a couple of rep runs as a solo tank and I do remember having some issues with agro at those times. Those runs were with 3 insanely geared healers however who were generally capable of keeping most of the dps alive until I could pull the wards back anyway.

[Maxion]

Deathbound Wards are immune to taunt.

[OzPhoenix]

Deathbound Wards are immune to taunt.

Yup, and to threat so it would seem from how this one was behaving.

[jinkobi]

I'm no ICC expert but I was always told those wards are just a booby trap that you should avoid. Got a rogue handy to disarm traps?

[OzPhoenix]

I'm no ICC expert but I was always told those wards are just a booby trap that you should avoid. Got a rogue handy to disarm traps?

Unfortunately not. 6 Paladins, 4 Shamans in one 2-man group, 5 Paladins, 1 DK, 4 Shamans in the other. Sadly, not a Steam Tonk Controller between 'em.

I think this may well have just been "weird" behaviour on the night. In subsequent farming (almost honoured now, and putting the farming on a high priority now my triumph gearing is almost at an end) they've behaved "normally".

About the only thing different, was having both tanks run in at the same time, so I'm still thinking maybe that lash attack of his was causing him to run over to toons who hadn't even put damaged on him when there was only 1 toon in melee range.

[ghonosyph]

the threat issue is probably due to heal agro of some sort and you/your friend not landing an attack on them soon enough. they are taunt immune so you've got to snag them up quickly and consecrate is not the best way to start on these is to slap them with avengers shield :)

you WILL notice while tanking these mobs that they switch targets when they cast saberlash(which is the cleave they use that hits the closest 2 targets(3 on 25 man) they switch targets but dont actually target the second tank for dps, so you'll see them toggle targets quite often. Lord marrowgar does this too in fact.

The threat issue you're all seeing for the mobs to go after someone else with no casting done as yet is a bug that should probably be reported, though it could just be your friends tank didnt land any attacks due to low levels of expertise and hit hehe;) good luck with your rep grind! i did it on my pallys and my dk/druid team and it was a pain, but doable :) easier now with the buff lol

[OzPhoenix]

An update in case any were interested.

The issue with the Wards behaviour has been, we think, sorted out. It's their Lash attack which strikes the highest plus next nearest threat. If there is only one threat (ie/ only one tank on their threat list so far) it seems to go hunting for another target to pick.

When we take on the Wards we (either 5-boxer partner I run with) run both tanks in up front and have never had any issues dropping them since then.

Tonight after a 2 hour session of rep farming we picked up about 6,000 rep, boosting ourselves along to Honoured. This enabled the first upgrade to the Ashen Verdict ring (very nice) and of course, purchase of both the Prot and Ret blacksmithing Boot patterns - which I then crafted for the whole team.

Along with some changes to the teams glyphs and seal, and their gear getting very nice now, the team was hitting around 6k DPS for the Rets with the Prot hanging around 3.5k.

Slatters - the other 5-boxer I was with tonight - and I were able to clear all the trash in front of Marrowgar in the 12 minute mark we've been aiming for (allowing the full 5 resets per hour).

My team is just about done now with Heroics for Triumph badges, and they're really starting to faceroll their way through them, including adding new dungeons to the farm-list. Only trinkets plus the Prots shield remain to be upgraded (trinkets will get a frost one, plus a triumph one shortly and I'm farming Marwyn for the i219 shield which seems to be the best short of raiding).

I've also taken the team in and 5-boxed the trash in front of Marrowgar, though not the Wards so I'm able to continue repping even when another team isn't online.

Once Marwyn finally drops the Shield (10 runs so far), I'll move to Heroic ICC 5 mans and upgrade all the weapons to i232.

[Iceorbz]

What is everyone doing with those damn casters, they seem to rape me pretty hardcore.

That blue flame crap = fml.

[Nighthawk38]

IceOrbz,

Those casters can be brutal. The tactic I use that seems to work fairly well is to hit them with Avnger's Shield to silence them... then they will move into melee range. It is IMPERATIVE that you keep them faced away from the rest of your team. My tank can handle the blast, but clothies get totally fried. Frost resist aura helps quite a bit as well.

[Maxion]

IceOrbz,

Those casters can be brutal. The tactic I use that seems to work fairly well is to hit them with Avnger's Shield to silence them... then they will move into melee range. It is IMPERATIVE that you keep them faced away from the rest of your team. My tank can handle the blast, but clothies get totally fried. Frost resist aura helps quite a bit as well.

And if they refuse to face away, round robin interrupts can keep them locked down enough to give you time to kill them. At least for the groups with only one.

[daviddoran]

I think u need to keep both tanks on the top 2 on threat for it to work. Their saber lash is looking for the second highest threat, which in your case must have been the shamans. Leave RF on your tank and have both tanks build up a threat lead and I think you should be fine.

[ghonosyph]

Its not threat based its spacially motivated, ie it hits the two closest targets. If there's not one in melee range then it goes for range. Odd behavior but that's how it goes :) has NOTHING to do with threat!!

[OzPhoenix]

Its not threat based its spacially motivated, ie it hits the two closest targets. If there's not one in melee range then it goes for range. Odd behavior but that's how it goes :) has NOTHING to do with threat!!

Yup, our tests confirmed that too. Since we move both tanks in now, they're just like fluffy sweet little kittens and just as easily dispatched...... :eek:

[Klesh]

To be honest, I've got no clue what you guys are talking about. You mean the trap triggered giants? I've never ever got hit with any ranged class, even though I've been farming rep with just 1 tank. Not even caring for max range or stuff like that, all ranged toons are just a couple of yards away.

[ghonosyph]

Yes the trap guys. I believe that its actually three targets in 25 man but that doesn't apply here lol :)