Premades group for Rated Battlegrounds

[Nsaeyn]

Cataclysm
Premades group for Rated Battlegrounds
We feel like 5-player dungeons are the kind of thing we can more-or-less randomly assemble and give you a reasonable chance of success. Even in that case, however, we make sure you have a tank and healer and look at gear and experience and that sort of thing.

Putting together groups for BGs is much taller proposition, especially when rating and epic gear are potentially involved. We want players to individually decide what kinds of classes and mechanics they need to be successful. We want players to decide what gear or experience requirements they are looking for. Most importantly, we want players to organize themselves -- we want you to decide who is the leader and / or what your strategy is, and we want you to have a mechanism for handling players who refuse to follow those goals, just want to argue, or are refusing to be team players. Randomly assembling groups would require many additional features, tools and rules that are very tricky to design in order to enforce these things. When someone else does the inviting, they can set the ground rules, and you can choose to live with them, challenge them or look for another group. It does require a little more work on your part up-front, but you'll have a much better experience in the long run. (Source)

[...] To be clear, you can still solo queue for normal (i.e. non-rated) Battlegrounds and still earn honor points to purchase gear. If you want conquest points (which we call Arena points today), you will need to enter rated BGs and you will need to form a group to do so. This is the same requirement we make for raiding, which provides similar rewards. (Source)

Could be interesting and a much needed nicer experience for BG's.

[Cheesepile]

I'm curious if we just need a 5-man group to join, or if you need a full premade ie 10 for wsg, 15 for ab etc

[BrothelMeister]

I was under the impression before that they were going to limit max group size for queueing to 5, but if they up that number, I might have to look at picking a different server to play with some more boxers.

[drevil]

i really don't like the way this all is going to...

raid coercive + new bg layouts with more pillars + set bg for rated

[Mokoi]

I'm curious if we just need a 5-man group to join, or if you need a full premade ie 10 for wsg, 15 for ab etc

You need to queue with the number of people required for the BG. so a raid of 15 for AB / EotS etc etc..

[Littleburst]

Could be fun, allthough getting facestomped by a raid filled with 2,2k rated people can really take the fun out.

The advantage of boxing is that you're somewhat organised in a BG, where none else really is. Premades take out this advantage. But it's also a hopefully fun challenge. I'm curious and we'll see.

[Firstcow]

I"m not concerned. If all else fails, I will start raiding and convert PVE points to PVP points and get the best gear.

[Shabu42]

You can do that? Like is it how frost buys 251 or can you convert to stuff you can buy 270 gear with (cata level equivalents)

[Firstcow]

You can do that? Like is it how frost buys 251 or can you convert to stuff you can buy 270 gear with (cata level equivalents)

Actually I think I'm wrong. Only the lower tier can do that, convert pvp->pve and pve->pvp

[Kalros]

You need to queue with the number of people required for the BG. so a raid of 15 for AB / EotS etc etc..

Are you sure about that? If thats the case, then there would never be any rated BGs for AV or Isle of Conquest, as you would have to have 40 dedicated people to do it. And that would mean that you could pick whichever Battleground you wanted as your "Rated" BG.

I was looking for some sort of blue post that elaborated on this, and I have yet to find one.

If this indeed IS true, that would be kind of f-ed up, and my excitement about rated BGs just went from 100 to 0.

[Maxion]

We'll see when it gets into beta I guess, nothing is known for certain yet.

[Mosg2]

Actually if you look at all the other blue posts about it the setup is quite clear: The 40 person BG's are moving to 25 person maxs to accomodate rated BG's and to make them easier to balance. To que for a rated BG you need a raid of the size of the BG--You can't solo que or que five of your guys for a 15 person BG. You get a personal rating for the BG's--There are no teams.

Sure, the downside is that you have to find other people to BG with but the upside is that with the way the points work everyone is just going to be doing rated BG's instead of regular ones once they get their gear. I think they're going to be like now when a premade AV starts up--They just take the first 40 people and go. I don't think it's going to be much more coordinated than they are which means in the 10 and 15 mans we will still dominate.

[outdrsyguy1]

I really need to find a multiboxer friendly pvp group that's willing to work with me in bg's and see's the possible benefits of a boxer. Course, I also need to figure out which comp will work best for bg's lol. Shaman will still probably be better but I love playing the rets, and of course you can never underestimate the stealth factor with 5 druids...

[Fat Tire]

I really need to find a multiboxer friendly pvp group that's willing to work with me in bg's and see's the possible benefits of a boxer. Course, I also need to figure out which comp will work best for bg's lol. Shaman will still probably be better but I love playing the rets, and of course you can never underestimate the stealth factor with 5 druids...

Pretty sure there will be all kinds of rated BG pugs going on. Its just too difficult to get together a team of 10-15 and good luck on 25. Sure there will be a couple of servers that will have a full premade team of arena/bgs all stars on occasion but overall it will be pugs.

I know I will be running one.

[Mokoi]

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/25482320318/rated-battlgrounds-why-premades/

check it out.

Blue post about it.

It sounds like they are removing the "random" element of BGs, similar to when people have to create their own raids. The "rated" BG is probably random every week, and rotates maybe? (speculation)

AV is also turning into a 25 player battle, so you do not need 40 for it anymore.

[Lyonheart]

Are you sure about that? If thats the case, then there would never be any rated BGs for AV or Isle of Conquest, as you would have to have 40 dedicated people to do it. And that would mean that you could pick whichever Battleground you wanted as your "Rated" BG.

I was looking for some sort of blue post that elaborated on this, and I have yet to find one.

If this indeed IS true, that would be kind of f-ed up, and my excitement about rated BGs just went from 100 to 0.


100% sure. The 40 man BGs will be 25 for rated matches.

[Fat Tire]

check it out.

Blue post about it.

It sounds like they are removing the "random" element of BGs, similar to when people have to create their own raids. The "rated" BG is probably random every week, and rotates maybe? (speculation)

AV is also turning into a 25 player battle, so you do not need 40 for it anymore.



Right, not sure if this was a response to my post, I guess I should have said pick up groups. i.e. /2. trade LF 8 more for rated eots bg pst type stuff etc. Is I think what we will see alot of ymmv.

[drevil]

was this already posted?

Rated Battlegrounds


Players will participate in rated battlegrounds by forming their raid group prior to joining the queue.
You will only face off against other rated groups.
Each week the format for rated battlegrounds will be different. It will rotate between 10, 15 and 25-player battlegrounds.
Rating loss will not exist until after a certain threshold.
Conquest points will be rewarded for winning rated battlegrounds.
There will be a limitation on the number of Conquest points you can earn each week to prevent feeling like you must participate in both arenas and rated battlegrounds.
There will be end-of-season rewards for rated BG teams similar to arenas:

The classic Honor titles will be coming back and rewarded to the top teams each season.
The "Gladiator" equivalent teams will also receive epic ground mounts. Ground mounts because they want to reward something you can ride in the battleground and be proud of / show off.

[drevil]

well my big hope that "rated bgs become a boxers best friend" are completly destroyed...

also a second WSG map.. bummer

[ashlor]

well my big hope that "rated bgs become a boxers best friend" are completly destroyed...

also a second WSG map.. bummer


All hope is not yet lost I don't think. The way I am reading into this, and it maybe a little much, because I think the ultimate end Goal is your doing BG's instead of arenas and those who will be in the "Rated BG" will be going for the same end goal as you and that is to win and not have to watch 5 afk bots doing jumping jacks in the starting area.
but as for now one can only speculate until it is implemented into the beta, but I do still see a light at the end of the tunnel for Rated BGs and Multiboxers.

[daviddoran]

Hmm, 25 player AV, totally changes the strategy. Are the non rated ones still going to be the same number of players?

I hope it doesn't kill non rated BGs, and I hope I can still que 5 of my guys into a non rated one. Part of why I like BGs is that the Opponent isn't necessarily coordinated. My hope is that it will be similar to arena, you do a minimum # of matches per week, and once you are capped on the high end points, you go back to regular BGs for the low lvl pvp points, which don't have a cap.

[Dooz]

Hmm, 25 player AV, totally changes the strategy. Are the non rated ones still going to be the same number of players?

I hope it doesn't kill non rated BGs, and I hope I can still que 5 of my guys into a non rated one. Part of why I like BGs is that the Opponent isn't necessarily coordinated. My hope is that it will be similar to arena, you do a minimum # of matches per week, and once you are capped on the high end points, you go back to regular BGs for the low lvl pvp points, which don't have a cap.

I hope they make a totally different BG rather than scale back /change AV. Even if its a rated BG, I'm not sure how much I'd like doing it with 25 slots.

The rated BG will change the way I play ths game. I've always loved PvP but hated arenas because I felt a little gimped and claustrophobic. World PvP died with Burning Crusade, and ganking is rarely fun. The queue times for AV's are horrible in my battle group. I sometimes wait hours to get in an AV. I'm really hoping this turns out to be fun.

[Mosg2]

From the blue posts the rated BG rotates every week. I don't think it's going to have that horrible of an impact on non-rated BG's to be honest... But I guess we'll see! :)

[Fat Tire]

From the blue posts the rated BG rotates every week. I don't think it's going to have that horrible of an impact on non-rated BG's to be honest... But I guess we'll see! :)

They are doing cross north america bg rated battlegrounds, they just moved the dallas data center to chicago this past tuesday. No idea if or when they will move the others, but I would imagine it would be better overall for queues.

[Mosg2]

I really wish you could que up for a rated BG with just what you have and it would match the rest. I'm really happy with the system so far--It could've turned out much much worse.

[Dooz]

I really wish you could que up for a rated BG with just what you have and it would match the rest. I'm really happy with the system so far--It could've turned out much much worse.

I understand where they are coming from by having the BG leader set up "raid." The way this system is set up, it affords the BG leader the opportunity to group people, and develop stratagies based on those group compositions, well before the battle starts. I don't like the idea of putting my rating in the hands of random people that want to do 25 different things. I think you'd be very lucky to have a good rating with a matching system. Getting honor to buy welfare epics is another story. I'm more than happy to queue randomly to do that.

On that note, if anyone want's to come over to Firetree Horde side, and start building a pvp guild now, you'd be very welcome. My adult children and I play together almost every night, and we have our own vent. My kids don't box because I'd be broke, but they are all very good at PvP. I'm currently RAFing my last account and plan to 5 box the rated bg's. Send me a PM here or a tell in game.

[Fat Tire]

I am looking forward to setting up my own groups.

With these rated bg coming out I can really see this hurting 5v5. You wont get those easy teams that just queue up and lose for points anymore, since it would be easier to get a pug to do the rated bgs. So even less teams queuing up for 5s.

[Mosg2]

Yeah, I think this is going to destroy arenas. You're not going to have near as many people playing I think. Unless they figure out a way to balance the arena rating required vs the bg rating required for gear...

Right now I'm trying to figure out which team(s) I'd like to have ready for Cata rated BG's. I'm still super psyched about Druids--Solar Beam is ridiculous.

[Mokoi]

losing 10 5v5 matches takes 10 minutes, losing 10 rated BGs? much longer. I doubt you will lose the free points in arenas.

[Andreauk]

deleted - not needed

[Fat Tire]

losing 10 5v5 matches takes 10 minutes, losing 10 rated BGs? much longer. I doubt you will lose the free points in arenas.

You seriously think people are going to do 10 games for arena just to lose because time is the most important factor?

[Dooz]

losing 10 5v5 matches takes 10 minutes, losing 10 rated BGs? much longer. I doubt you will lose the free points in arenas.

Agreed.

It might even help. I think more people will be willing to PvP with rated BGs. I think that new blood into PvP will see the value in 10 and out Arenas. That is if you can combine both sets of points.

[Fat Tire]

Agreed.

It might even help. I think more people will be willing to PvP with rated BGs. I think that new blood into PvP will see the value in 10 and out Arenas. That is if you can combine both sets of points.

This would be true if you could combine them. Hopefully someone will link the blue post that talks about it. Otherwise I will find it and link it a little later.

[Mosg2]

Looking at all the beta info and blue posts I'm really starting to like a 4x DK team. Right now you can basically 100% MS someone with 4x DK's--There's just about nothing you can do versus chain Necrotic Strikes. The way I see it, it doesn't matter how they change the ability as long as it makes it to release: No changes they can make to it will keep it functional as a "normal" DK (ie, not boxed) ability and not make it ridiculously overpowered when there are 4x of them.

DK self healing is pretty good too. Plus all you'd have to do for rated BG's is add a healer (I'm thinking Shaman for totem support and survivability). Throw on top of that 4x Lichborne and all the other defensive cooldowns DK's get... It looks like it's going to be a really hot team.

Also (because I can't stop thinking about all this) they've removed Cleansing Totem and Abolish Poison. Basically this means that for every one GCD you spend putting a disease on someone the healer (and only healing specs mind you) have to spend one GCD to get it off. Now multiply that x4. Now you Pestilence and it's on everyone.

4x Strangulate? Yes please. 4x Death Grip? Yes please. 4x Chains of Ice? Yes please. 4x Ghoul stun? Yes please.

Maybe I'm just hopelessly optimistic but the team looks *hot* to me. For PvE too all you have to do is add a healer--You can box it or just pickup a healer. The ONLY thing I dislike about it is that you don't get any actual cast-healing. It's all going to be either your tag-along boxed/played healer, Rune Tap and bandages.

Oh, and don't forget you're in plate!

Thoughts?

[Iceorbz]

Looking at all the beta info and blue posts I'm really starting to like a 4x DK team. Right now you can basically 100% MS someone with 4x DK's--There's just about nothing you can do versus chain Necrotic Strikes. The way I see it, it doesn't matter how they change the ability as long as it makes it to release: No changes they can make to it will keep it functional as a "normal" DK (ie, not boxed) ability and not make it ridiculously overpowered when there are 4x of them.

DK self healing is pretty good too. Plus all you'd have to do for rated BG's is add a healer (I'm thinking Shaman for totem support and survivability). Throw on top of that 4x Lichborne and all the other defensive cooldowns DK's get... It looks like it's going to be a really hot team.

Also (because I can't stop thinking about all this) they've removed Cleansing Totem and Abolish Poison. Basically this means that for every one GCD you spend putting a disease on someone the healer (and only healing specs mind you) have to spend one GCD to get it off. Now multiply that x4. Now you Pestilence and it's on everyone.

4x Strangulate? Yes please. 4x Death Grip? Yes please. 4x Chains of Ice? Yes please. 4x Ghoul stun? Yes please.

Maybe I'm just hopelessly optimistic but the team looks *hot* to me. For PvE too all you have to do is add a healer--You can box it or just pickup a healer. The ONLY thing I dislike about it is that you don't get any actual cast-healing. It's all going to be either your tag-along boxed/played healer, Rune Tap and bandages.

Oh, and don't forget you're in plate!

Thoughts?
I would probably do double healer 3 dps with that, shaman is kinda focusable.

[drevil]

in ratedbgs enemies will come at you nonstop.
survivability plays much bigger role, not killing a single enemy.

staying alive against majority and fast movement to tactical points
is important .. yes, we will see a lot of healers especially druids!

[Fat Tire]

in ratedbgs enemies will come at you nonstop.
survivability plays much bigger role, not killing a single enemy.

staying alive against majority and fast movement to tactical points
is important .. yes, we will see a lot of healers especially druids!

While druids have alot of mobility which is very helpful. They are losing the ability to put lifebloom on more than 1 target. And rejuv is going from 18% to 25% base mana. So they wont be able to keep an army up by themself anymore.

[remanz]

Looking at all the beta info and blue posts I'm really starting to like a 4x DK team. Right now you can basically 100% MS someone with 4x DK's--There's just about nothing you can do versus chain Necrotic Strikes. The way I see it, it doesn't matter how they change the ability as long as it makes it to release: No changes they can make to it will keep it functional as a "normal" DK (ie, not boxed) ability and not make it ridiculously overpowered when there are 4x of them.

DK self healing is pretty good too. Plus all you'd have to do for rated BG's is add a healer (I'm thinking Shaman for totem support and survivability). Throw on top of that 4x Lichborne and all the other defensive cooldowns DK's get... It looks like it's going to be a really hot team.

Also (because I can't stop thinking about all this) they've removed Cleansing Totem and Abolish Poison. Basically this means that for every one GCD you spend putting a disease on someone the healer (and only healing specs mind you) have to spend one GCD to get it off. Now multiply that x4. Now you Pestilence and it's on everyone.

4x Strangulate? Yes please. 4x Death Grip? Yes please. 4x Chains of Ice? Yes please. 4x Ghoul stun? Yes please.

Maybe I'm just hopelessly optimistic but the team looks *hot* to me. For PvE too all you have to do is add a healer--You can box it or just pickup a healer. The ONLY thing I dislike about it is that you don't get any actual cast-healing. It's all going to be either your tag-along boxed/played healer, Rune Tap and bandages.

Oh, and don't forget you're in plate!

Thoughts?

I think if you are going to use another person as healer, 4DK vs mix melee is the discussion here. Have to see what the damage will be like for 4 DKs since the mix melee has more buffs.

I like 4 death grips. but had concerns about the damage.

[Mosg2]

@remanz

I agree. I prefer a one or two class team but the mixed-melee I have been running is definitely awesome. I guess what it comes down to is how Necrotic Strike functions. Does it stack, does it overwrite, does MS reduce the incoming heal before or after it hits the debuff, is there a cooldown, what's the rune cost etc. The way that it is currently designed 4 DK's could prevent 100% of incoming heals to a target. Your total damage output would be lower because you're using your Unholy runes for NS but... It's all unhealable damage.

I'm waiting for more information after the big talent changes go down. For now I'm slowly boosting my DK's and another team or two.