Blizzard tolerates us for now...

[Kiljaedon]

From Zarhym

There's no support for multi-boxing on our end. We tolerate it. For now.
Rivet for rivet I will pilfer my family a bulletproof love.




http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25026572810&pageNo=6&sid=1#111

Maybe we should take our oh so tolerated money to another mmo.

[MiRai]

Yep just came here myself to post this. :)

[Kiljaedon]

Lol, now they are arguing about how blizzard has not added things in the game to help boxers. Last I looked the interact option alone allows melee boxer groups to exist much more easily then in the past.

[Slats]

For those of you listing every single advantage changes to the game systems have given us, you are idiots.

None of the features in the game where added to SPECIFICALLY support us. Some of them we benefit from. If you go on and on about how IWT is what makes Paladins so awesome - you watch Blizzard make CTM and IWT no longer work with each other as they do now. I highly doubt it was EVER intended that IWT benefit from CTM, we are just lucky that we worked out it did.

Focus, follow, RAF, IWT, CTM, "click" Healing and other UI API functions - they are all added for everyone. Your being a fool if you try and insist on the General Forum that Blizzard added those to support us.

While the Blue Post is a bit dramatic and be taken several ways I simple read it as that we are not treated with any special consideration nor are we thought of when design decisions are made. What we do is tolerated, but that can change at any time - as can the TOS/EULA.

[lans83]

Just wait till damn near the whole games becomes instanced like Icecrown and Storm Peaks. If multiboxing is still allowed then, that will be the day I quit and go back to soloing if not quit all together.

[OzPhoenix]

I think Zahryms post is very poorly worded. It's comments like that, that encourage anti-boxers to continue hating/abusing boxers.

He should have stated the full truth; that it is a fully legitimate and supported style of play. All he's done there is make it sound like something Blizz wishes would go away, if only they could make it. Very poor Blue post that.

[Kiljaedon]

For those of you listing every single advantage changes to the game systems have given us, you are idiots.

None of the features in the game where added to SPECIFICALLY support us. Some of them we benefit from. If you go on and on about how IWT is what makes Paladins so awesome - you watch Blizzard make CTM and IWT no longer work with each other as they do now. I highly doubt it was EVER intended that IWT benefit from CTM, we are just lucky that we worked out it did.

Focus, follow, RAF, IWT, CTM, "click" Healing and other UI API functions - they are all added for everyone. Your being a fool if you try and insist on the General Forum that Blizzard added those to support us.

While the Blue Post is a bit dramatic and be taken several ways I simple read it as that we are not treated with any special consideration nor are we thought of when design decisions are made. What we do is tolerated, but that can change at any time - as can the TOS/EULA.


Lol, none of the features were added not to also enhance boxing either. I am sad that you did not have the spine to keep the idiot statement up before you edited it Slats. When a dev comes on the forums and says we added these enhancements to help everyone BUT boxers then I will agree with you. Until then keep your insults to yourself.

[Cheesepile]

I hate seeing replies from blues like this... I'm 8 levels away from my first team @ 80, now it makes me realize it could all be taken away at any moment...

[Slats]

Lol, none of the features were added not to also enhance boxing either. I am sad that you did not have the spine to keep the idiot statement up before you edited it Slats.

My post is not edited. The idiot statement is still there. Perhaps I should have said being idiots. Sorry if you took it personally.

[Kalros]

FFS! Who wrote that IWT stuff on official forums?! Smooth.

[Malekyth]

I hate seeing replies from blues like this... I'm 8 levels away from my first team @ 80, now it makes me realize it could all be taken away at any moment...

But it probably won't be. Don't worry 'bout it. I've been multiboxing for a couple years and have always known that if Blizzard really wanted to, they could outlaw this playstyle tomorrow. They haven't, and have gone on record in much less ambiguous words that they recognize that multiboxers don't break the game and can keep playing.

Remember that Blizzard is run by people who made the most successful MMO ever! They're smart and have already considered the situation. The demands of morons on messageboards do not dictate Blizzard policy.

[Zal]

FFS! Who wrote that IWT stuff on official forums?! Smooth.
I'd have to agree with that. Considering I really can't see a point to having it other than for multiboxers.

[kate]

I'd have to agree with that. Considering I really can't see a point to having it other than for multiboxers.

Accessibility options for people with limited hand/eye coordination/mobility. An acquaintance of mine has one hand, and that hand is barely functional, but because of key combinations like that he's able to play WoW. A lot of things that make it easier to box make it easier for people who are physically handicapped.

If Blizzard wanted to, they could stop boxing immediately by simply making it a bannable offense. They won't, however, because boxers probably won't re-buy their accounts if banned, likely contribute a not completely negligible amount to revenue, generate fewer support issues, and don't work outside of the game mechanics, and don't exploit or break the economy in any way.

Banning boxers would be like Blizzard saying, "We don't like money, and we would rather listen to whines from children about how other people choose to play in a completely legitimate fashion, than allow a generally quiet portion of our customer base to just enjoy the game."

[zenga]

I wonder what % on their revenue blizzards gets from boxers. Are we talking about 15-30k accounts in total of what ... about 12m accounts (a very rough estimation 1000 realms with 6 boxers per realm)? While it might easily total a few million dollars the impact on their overall income is almost negligible. Just willing to put that into perspective.

Now about that forum thread: i can totally understand players that find multiboxing uncool, stupid, something for nerds, etc ... that's just their personal opinion. But the people that use arguments about follow, iwt, assist, ... being unfair, will login their healer and in the next dungeon they just click with their mouse on their fancy grid + clique layout to heal someone. Quite a double standard here.

[Velassra]

They can suck my balls if they ban multiboxing. How the fuck and I hurting anyone/interfering w/ someone elses game/bad for the game in instances, by myself?

Funny if they'd change their stance after the 40 boxer, many accuse of griefing, was their screenshot of the day.

[Lyonheart]

There are MANY more two boxers and many many more people who have more than one account who do not box. MOST boxers just two box. Us five boxers are a small minority. I think they would just restrict it in ways like not allowing broadcasting software or not allowing you to box in rated BGs.

And they can say they do not support boxing all the want.. RaF and the new two seater mount are proof that they want people to buy extra accounts.. they know damn well that MOST people use RaF for extra accounts or just to get the mount.

[Maleick]

I believe budkin,elemental, and I are the reason for the OP nerd rage post. I lolburst him pretty much everyday and I think twice last night lol. They hate us on hellscream.

[Cheesepile]

kick his ass, sea bass!

[Shodokan]

We've always been "tolerated" and never supported. In ALL games. It's nothing new. But there have been boxers since vanilla and there have been no real problems... so no reason for it to change especially with cataclysm making things much harder on us.

[Ualaa]

Boxing is the only reason I still play this game.
I had quit, but saw a video by Ellay on WarcraftMovies.com, and that sparked an interest again.
I had two accounts, played with auto follow and two keyboards etc, for a few years prior to this.

I don't see them removing boxing from the game.
And about the only way to effectively kill it, would be to remove the ability to follow.
If that were the case, I'd likely sell my gold and accounts, and then look for a new game.
I've never done RMT's in warcraft, but supported myself for more then a year in EQ via a power leveling service - where they played their own toon and I played my six... effectively sold my time.
I'd rather continue to play the game, but if they were to remove the ability to do so, I'd get what I can out of it and then move on.

[thefunk]

kick his ass, sea bass!

exactly! nice quote

[Daeri]

English isn't my first language so I might be wrong but doesn't that "For now" mean something special ? Doesn't these two words suggest that some kind of change is to be expected at some point ?

[thefunk]

I don't think there is anything to reading into this post, especially as ambiguous as it is.

[Toonarmy]

I'd rather continue to play the game, but if they were to remove the ability to do so, I'd get what I can out of it and then move on.

And the folks at Vivendi understand this. Which is why I tend to agree with you and others that have argued the business reason for allowing mb'ing in the past.

[EaTCarbS]

English isn't my first language so I might be wrong but doesn't that "For now" mean something special ? Doesn't these two words suggest that some kind of change is to be expected at some point ?

yes sir. it doesn't mean that change is inevitable, however.

[Kalros]

The "For Now" part could just be their non-committal way of calming the nerdrage while not actually saying they are going to change anything.

[Daeri]

Thanks for the clarification :)

[Littleburst]

There's no reason for them to bann boxing. It's more money income, especially with the amount of boxers only rising.

there's no logical reason to make them suddenly decide that they'll bann boxing, because of whine or whatever. So no worries, no bad dreams and enjoy :)

(if possible without randomly insulting others, atleast on the forum here. Go pvp if you need to blow off steam)

[Xar]

I agree it was a poorly worded comment. The problem is it casts doubt whether our hobby is safe and the final decision is not ours. At least with Sacco it was clear that Blizzard was fine with multiboxing but it was not supported but they didn't care as long as the TOS wasn't being broken. If they do ever put an end to boxing I'll just stop playing as well as my kids. D3 can't come fast enough.

[Kicksome]

I have a feeling they don't ban multiboxing because A LOT of people have more than one account, and probably log them on at the same time to trade or idle. And how can they tell anyone, you can't have more than one account logged in at the same time without pissing these people off AND causing them to just transfer all their toons to 1 account and cancel the other.

This would be a major risk for Blizzard - they are very proud of their number of accounts. There might not be a lot of multiboxers, but there's a massive amount of people with multiple accounts.

If they banned multiboxing, I think they'd lose a LOT of people who actually have two account and don't understand the difference between multiboxing and logging more than one account on at the same time.

It's very difficult for the common wow player to understand the difference of having more than 1 account and playing those accounts at the same time.

[raylion]

I doubt they would ban boxing but if they were to restrict it someway I think they would look at the PVP side which is where all the QQing comes from. I imagine they would do something like disable /follow in BGs or some other mechanic rather than an outright ban.

Only reason I think this way is because they got rid of twinks by effectively removing them from mainstream BGs so can see them doing a similar manoeuvre with boxing. Sincerely hope they don't but I wouldn't be surprised if some boxing breaking update was applied to battlegrounds.

[Shodokan]

I doubt they would ban boxing but if they were to restrict it someway I think they would look at the PVP side which is where all the QQing comes from. I imagine they would do something like disable /follow in BGs or some other mechanic rather than an outright ban.

Only reason I think this way is because they got rid of twinks by effectively removing them from mainstream BGs so can see them doing a similar manoeuvre with boxing. Sincerely hope they don't but I wouldn't be surprised if some boxing breaking update was applied to battlegrounds.

There were FAR FAR FAR more twinks than there are boxers. There are maybe 50 boxers per battlegroup. But if they were to get rid of BGs for boxers, i'd be done with this game as i'm sure many others would be.

[Sam DeathWalker]

They can't "ban" multiboxers cause its almost impossible to prove a hardware boxer is boxing ...
We could just well I am sure I can build hardware that would introduce random time delays to make it appear another person is at the other keyboard.

They mgiht get by banning all software but you can't really "ban" hardware.

Also I would question if its even legal to do so, if you do business in a state then you can't just abitraliy choose your customers, if a person is will to pay twice what can be done. LoL I wish a resturanut would refuse to server me two meals becaise I am one person.


But if they disable auto follow then its kinda all over. Well kinda you could still set up and pull mobs to you I suppose, then move by ritual of summonging .... Or a bunch of elephants.

[wonz]

I wont believe they would actively ban multiboxing. But possibly they are going to change macro core mechanics, so multiboxing would become much more difficult.

We would have to use a lot of keys then. It still would be possible, but much harder.

Possibly they also do it as they did it with twinks. Offer an alternative, which would be unacceptable, and then remove the possibility to multibox completely (by technical changes).

[Daeri]

I guess they can always enact that multiboxing is against the TOS and rely on their spy Warden to detect and report any case of software multiboxing. Or they can wait for players to report suspected multiboxers and trust their GMs to ban whenever they think they should. But well, I'm not sure how efficient this method would be since there are so many unauthorized bots running out there for months although they are constantly reported by people..

Imo, best solution would be to drastically reduce what you can do with the help of macros and addons, as Sam says. Remove follow, interact with target, all macros that allows to automatically accept quests, trades and so on, and most of will suddenly find multiboxing pretty much unattractive.

[jinkobi]

You guys are worrying over nothing really. People have bitched about multiboxing since the first multiboxer entered a BG. Most people don't even understand what's going on and suspect we're doing something suspicious with all the synchronized moves.

Blizz hasn't done jack about bots, hacks, gold spammers, hackers, etc... The numerous other bigger glaring problems in their face. They also don't seem to have any intention of tackling those problems either as it's been years since the last bot ban wave. I see bots every single day and people mining as quick as a 747 jet, people clipping through walls, speed hacking with that paid hack.

The least of their concerns these days are multiboxers.

[Myc]

sigh the world.... of warcraft is dumb

[Kalros]

There were FAR FAR FAR more twinks than there are boxers. There are maybe 50 boxers per battlegroup. But if they were to get rid of BGs for boxers, i'd be done with this game as i'm sure many others would be.I agree. I'm mostly a PvE'er, however during pre-patch, pre-expansion lulls, I dip into PvP quite a bit, mostly BGs. If they did something drastic like break /follow in BGs, I'd be done.

[EaTCarbS]

That thread is a real treat =P

[Velassra]

I do wish they wouldn't make vague statemnts like this though. I certainly don't want to invest in Cataclysm x5 just to find they are going to ban it a couple weeks later.

[outdrsyguy1]

You guys are worrying over nothing really. People have bitched about multiboxing since the first multiboxer entered a BG. Most people don't even understand what's going on and suspect we're doing something suspicious with all the synchronized moves.

Blizz hasn't done jack about bots, hacks, gold spammers, hackers, etc... The numerous other bigger glaring problems in their face. They also don't seem to have any intention of tackling those problems either as it's been years since the last bot ban wave. I see bots every single day and people mining as quick as a 747 jet, people clipping through walls, speed hacking with that paid hack.

The least of their concerns these days are multiboxers.

i totally agree, we are very low on their radar and hit list. Gold sellers, account hacking, and phising are still a MAJOR problem with WOW right now. And there are a lot of people that really enjoy us boxing... and killing all of us with like 2 people when they play smart :P

it's kinda like gear score, it sucks, but it's a trend. The people that suck get pwned hard by us and whine about it. If we werne't there, they'd just get pwned hard by X class and whine about that instead. Real players know how to mess up boxers good and take advantage.

[zenga]

i totally agree, we are very low on their radar and hit list. Gold sellers, account hacking, and phising are still a MAJOR problem with WOW right now. And there are a lot of people that really enjoy us boxing... and killing all of us with like 2 people when they play smart :P

it's kinda like gear score, it sucks, but it's a trend. The people that suck get pwned hard by us and whine about it. If we werne't there, they'd just get pwned hard by X class and whine about that instead. Real players know how to mess up boxers good and take advantage.

Same is kinda true for real boxers and those that suck at pvp. A real good boxer can handle those good players their mess up strategy, an 'average' boxers ends up ay the GY :)

[Velassra]

Same is kinda true for real boxers and those that suck at pvp. A real good boxer can handle those good players their mess up strategy, an 'average' boxers ends up ay the GY :)


I'm free honor so I stay away from PvP....except WG for the freebies.

[zenga]

Kinda same here. Just AV is what i'm running, as i know the map, the tacts and what to expect. But if i meet a couple of very skilled players, they do with me what they want.

[Diwa]

WoW Manager: Sir we need to ban multiboxers
Blizzard CEO: How many members are listed in dual-boxing.com
WoW Manager: 31800
Blizzard CEO: Ok you're fired!

[Myc]

shocked.. they locked the thread already. I havent added enough comments. =l

the on thing that still makes me lol the most is..

"The fact that you spend/waste $45+ a month to play with yourself is sad.".
I just don't get it. I box.. and raid with 4 friends?.. so friends taken care of. (Real life friends to.. not just pixels)
I have friends in game.. but w/e don't mean to much when they could be anyone.

and.. 45 bucks? pffft.. just got home from a $300.00 dinner.. $60.00 tip.. (happy birthday to me fyi :cool:)
car payment..500.. bike payment 250.. dropping money on screens, laptop, gifts for my girl, &.. faster computer than most wow players..
I Don't see how 45 bucks is anything... my gym membership is more than that. my cost in starbucks & lunches thru the week is more than that.
and by no means am I 'living large'

grrrr. /rage against people with feet in their mouth/butt

[Cheesepile]

Well, they locked the thread. Either Zarhym's statement meant absolutely nothing or changes are coming and they don't want to discuss any further :confused:

[zenga]

Well, they locked the thread. Either Zarhym's statement meant absolutely nothing or changes are coming and they don't want to discuss any further :confused:

It's pretty common around the internet forums to lock threads that are just plain flame wars. That thread could go on till 2034 and nothing would change in the discussion. Lock it and move on. In a few days everyone will forget about it.

[heyaz]

Blizz hasn't done jack about bots, hacks, gold spammers, hackers, etc...

You're right, they've done absolutely nothing.

You would know too, since you work there.

[thefunk]

WoW Manager: Sir we need to ban multiboxers
Blizzard CEO: How many members are listed in dual-boxing.com
WoW Manager: 31800
Blizzard CEO: Ok you're fired!

You should have added

Blizzard CEO: And how many accounts do they each have?[/QUOTE]

[wonz]

The thread didnt get locked, it just got its maximum of posts.

Edit: Sorry, it got locked. But another thread got opened.

Fact is: Many people feel pissed by Multiboxers, and we are subject to rage.

Question is: Are there many people being enraged? If yes, is blizzard listening to those nerds?

I would wait on buying n Cataclysm licenses for at least a month. Lets see who they want to favor. Nerds or Multiboxers.

[Whowantstoknow]

Would like to say thanks to all the boxers that made us look bad in that thread...

[Slimjim19]

Why does one side always feel the need to call the other a nerd or geek? its like Screech making fun of Urkel.

We are all playing a game with cartoonish characters. Someone will always feel what we do is a waste of time, regardless of if its with 1 character, or 45.

And someone will always comment that boxing is a waste of cash. I wouldn't argue that its not, based on having car payments and other debt thought :p

[Hivetyrant]

Would like to say thanks to all the boxers that made us look bad in that thread...

Agreed, especially the Shaman that made 5 posts one after the other saying "Multiplying" or something, no wonder people hate us!

[jinkobi]

Would like to say thanks to all the boxers that made us look bad in that thread...


That's why I just stayed out of it- hell I didn't even go read the thread because I already know it's just like the many many many others over the years... This thread is NOTHING new guys... That whole middle of the road stance Blizzard takes is the position they've had ALL along concerning multiboxers. As long as multiboxers aren't causing a mass disruption of gameplay then they don't care.

All you're doing by going on that other thread is making a mountain out of a mole hill. Drawing attention, causing outrage, and feeding the trolls. Some things are just best left alone.

Blizzard doesn't care if you multibox- we are 5X the cash in their pockets. What kind of logic is it if they lose 1 person who hates multiboxing- or they lose 5+ accounts losing a multiboxer.

Anyway this is an age old arguement and I can guarantee we aren't even a blip on Blizzards radar right now. Just because some blue makes an off the cuff comment doesn't really mean squat. I've had long conversations about multiboxing in the customer service forums many times. For every negative blue post I could probably find a positive one. This really is no big deal nor a reason to change your plans for Cat.

[Velassra]

I wonder how many of these whining little bitches that lose 1 vs 5 against a multiboxer, have taken every oppurtunity available to gank sonmeone lower level than them or w/ mobs on them.....As a whole the WoW population is filled w/ douchebags and hypocrits.

[Fursphere]

I wonder how many of these whining little bitches that lose 1 vs 5 against a multiboxer, have taken every oppurtunity available to gank sonmeone lower level than them or w/ mobs on them.....As a whole the WoW population is filled w/ douchebags and hypocrits.

QFT.

The XP in BGs change and the effect it had on "twinks" is proof of this. (it effectively killed off twinks)

[Kromtor]

The amount of money they make from real multiboxers may be negligible but the amount they make from people with more than 1 account is very substantial. It would not be easy to disallow boxing and still allow multiple accounts. That is the reason we are "tolerated" in carebear MMO's where the majority of the population would enjoy having us tossed out.

The GM response from EvE was far more tactful when they explained how multiboxing was explicitly allowed.

[wonz]

The amount of money they make from real multiboxers may be negligible but the amount they make from people with more than 1 account is very substantial. It would not be easy to disallow boxing and still allow multiple accounts. That is the reason we are "tolerated" in carebear MMO's where the majority of the population would enjoy having us tossed out.

They still can make multiboxing impossible, but still allow people to have more than one account.

Think about removing /follow. Think about changing macro core mechanics (as like comma seperated castsequences), think about removing interact with target and others.

That wont hurt people with two accounts, but would infact make multiboxing using 3rd party software and macros impossible.

And no, we are not very many, there would be no real loss for blizzard if they would technically disable multiboxing. Blizzard does no big money from multiboxers.

I guess its a simple calculation. Once a considerable amount of people quits because blizzard does tolerate multiboxing, they will change their mind.

Think about what happened to the "twink"-community. That could happen to muliboxers as well.

[Shodokan]

They still can make multiboxing impossible, but still allow people to have more than one account.

Think about removing /follow. Think about changing macro core mechanics (as like comma seperated castsequences), think about removing interact with target and others.

That wont hurt people with two accounts, but would infact make multiboxing using 3rd party software and macros impossible.

And no, we are not very many, there would be no real loss for blizzard if they would technically disable multiboxing. Blizzard does no big money from multiboxers.

I guess its a simple calculation. Once a considerable amount of people quits because blizzard does tolerate multiboxing, they will change their mind.

Think about what happened to the "twink"-community. That could happen to muliboxers as well.

I've yet to see someone say they are quitting because they met a boxer and got raped.

[Ualaa]

Removing IWT won't kill the game for boxers, although melee comps will be much harder to box.
It will kill the game, for many disabled people who only have one functional hand...

We get a lot from the feature, but it probably wasn't designed to make boxing easier.

[Toonarmy]

Think about what happened to the "twink"-community. That could happen to muliboxers as well.

and from an earlier post



Gosh. Good i dont need to chose only one. I surely would quit playing a little bit later because of frustration.

I would suggest that you are correct sir. I suspect a significant number of mb'ers would leave the game rather than resort to playing a single toon. That may be a fundamental difference between the twink and boxing communities.

I suspect, however, that the demographic, associated income, and potential for "organization" (as mentioned earlier this site represents a community of 31,800 members) may factor in to any long term decision Bliz makes. Just my 0.02

[Tin]

The new post: It's Time to end multiboxing....proof inside

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25026434089&sid=1


The 20 boxer was VERY sophisticated, he could heal CC AND do dmg simultaneously. This wasn't a primitive boxer.

lol - what 35 player could not find out to do - a 5 boxing warlock did with 5xSeed of corruption.

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/2669/wowscrnshot022010021829.jpg

[jinkobi]

They still can make multiboxing impossible, but still allow people to have more than one account.

Think about removing /follow. Think about changing macro core mechanics (as like comma seperated castsequences), think about removing interact with target and others.

That wont hurt people with two accounts, but would infact make multiboxing using 3rd party software and macros impossible.

And no, we are not very many, there would be no real loss for blizzard if they would technically disable multiboxing. Blizzard does no big money from multiboxers.

I guess its a simple calculation. Once a considerable amount of people quits because blizzard does tolerate multiboxing, they will change their mind.

Think about what happened to the "twink"-community. That could happen to muliboxers as well.

You are acting as if everyone who doesn't multibox is against it or would quit the game if it's not banned. The people actually against multiboxing and might actually quit is a very small minority and most of them liars and won't quit in the end.

Blizz would rather lose that small minority than the multiboxers. Another thing is they dislike being strongarmed into decisions.

There is NOTHING in WOW designed to help multiboxers specifically. The fact that we use IWT/follow/macros is nothing as plenty of other people who've never multiboxed or heard of it use those features. Where you get the idea these things were designed for us is beyond me. They have many other uses and have actually improved them over time- they aren't going to take them out.

I'm telling you guys this shit blows up a couple of times a year when some whiner who got pwned in a BG gets on the forums and causes a big stink. Or it's something unique like the dude 20 boxing AV. It'll blow over and be forgottenjust like all the other times.

[heyaz]

One mechanic or terms of service change could end all of this, and it wouldn't surprise me. To hold onto the idea that they won't get rid of us because we pay for multiple accounts is foolish. There are over 11 million subscribers, safe to say about 10.99 million of which are not multiboxers. For a product that pulls >$160,000,000 per month in revenue, I don't feel like I'm safe just because I pay $75 per month and that the entire multiboxing community combined probably accounts for less than $100k.

[Kromtor]

They still can make multiboxing impossible, but still allow people to have more than one account.

Think about removing /follow. Think about changing macro core mechanics (as like comma seperated castsequences), think about removing interact with target and others.

That wont hurt people with two accounts, but would infact make multiboxing using 3rd party software and macros impossible.

And no, we are not very many, there would be no real loss for blizzard if they would technically disable multiboxing. Blizzard does no big money from multiboxers.

I guess its a simple calculation. Once a considerable amount of people quits because blizzard does tolerate multiboxing, they will change their mind.

Think about what happened to the "twink"-community. That could happen to muliboxers as well.

Good point. Removing IWT and follow wouldnt prevent all boxing but it would defintely eliminate boxers from being competitive in PvP. One fear and forget about sync'ed keyboard movement. You could still crawl your way through instances and do some less complicated encounters.

I do agree that the amount of people that actually leave due to multiboxers is probably a mere fraction of the people who actually multibox and blizzard knows this.

[OzPhoenix]

This is a storm in a teacup. Despite Zahryms (sp?) poorly worded and overly brief post in the thread, I'd be HUGELY surprised if Blizzard, after all this time, decided to ban, or deliberately gimp, multiboxing.

[Sam DeathWalker]

It would be simple enough to program a computer to comunicate with a bunch of another computers through the keyboard (usb) port, using keyboard signals, so it would be impossible to determine if you were multiboxing or not. Just throw in some random delays and some random spell choices and problem solved ...... You could only have one client per computer though but thats also no problem if you buy a bunch of cheapo computers. Of course you wouldnt be able to brag about it lol .....

[Zub]

then again, not everyone multiboxes to be able to brag ;-)

[Diwa]

I don't feel like I'm safe just because I pay $75 per month and that the entire multiboxing community combined probably accounts for less than $100k.

Hmm lets do the math.

Members: 31800
Say 10% is doing 5 man: 3180
Monthly Revenue: 3180 x 5 x 15 = $238,500/month <- A CEO will jizz in his pants if he lose this amount of money :D

Note that not all boxers are members of dual-boxing :)

[Slats]

Just imagine if all 31,000 where 5 boxers.

I am staggered by the sheer amount of money that is.

[Prega]

i m really tempted to open ingame ticket:
"hello, you tollerate. but maybe i m unwanted. should i quit?"

[Dramoth]

For starters, I dont box PVP at all.

I have a 5man team that I am going to use to farm HC's when I get up to that level. A tank, healer and 3 ranged dps. I am basically going to keep running my 6 solo level 80's to go raiding with, although I might team up with powerwar's team when I get to the level where the team is geared enough to farm naxx10. I also have a team of druids that I am going to turn into 5 boomkins for raiding purposes. But I have no great desire to go around PVPing :) although trashing the occasional hordies who roll into alliance areas flagged, I will end up killing.

If Blizzard does kill boxing, I dont think that it is going to hurt me as much as it will hurt some people... mainly because I will just fall back to playing my solo toons and turn my 5 box team into 5 solo players, although I may delete one of the mages... but I am not going to go berserk abusing blizz.

[Svpernova09]

Wow 8 pages.

After talking to guildies over the past few days about this we kinda shared the same opinion this was a very, very badly worded response by a GM. You can read as much, or as little into as you want. Personally, I lost a lot of respect for Zarhym. I always thought he was a pretty level headed guy. Who knows, maybe he just had a bad day, maybe one of us ganked / camped him or his mother.

To all the people that are reading a lot into this and saying "what if they ban us" or anything along those lines:

They've never directly supported us, they've always said that, this was nothing new. The concerning part is the "for now". Do I think they'll ban multiboxing? No, not until the burden of multiboxing becomes more expensive than the income it's generating. We all know we're an extreme minority in the global WoW scale. Blizzard "tolerates" us "for now" because we blend into the scenery. For every one of us, there are thousands of single players that probably don't even know we exist. When those numbers turn, when we start to outnumber the single players I believe we'll see a shift in policy. Maybe not an outright ban, but you'll see things that make it harder for us.

As Fursphere has often said, if Blizzard wanted to remove 99% of multiboxers from WoW, all they need to do is remove the /follow functionality from the game.

[MiRai]

As Fursphere has often said, if Blizzard wanted to remove 99% of multiboxers from WoW, all they need to do is remove the /follow functionality from the game.
Way to keep secrets brah...

[Svpernova09]

Way to keep secrets brah...


Damn, I thought we were supposed to spread everything Fur said like it was the gospel, didn't realize it was classified.

[MiRai]

Damn, I thought we were supposed to spread everything Fur said like it was the gospel, didn't realize it was classified.
Negative. You just handed Joshua the launch codes.

[Svpernova09]

Negative. You just handed Joshua the launch codes.

brb calling jack bauer

[BrothelMeister]

There are plenty of ways to make multiboxing impossible, and none of them are hard to figure out.

As Svpernova said, we blend into the scenery, and based on how often every one of us gets a tell from someone who's BLOWN AWAY by what they are seeing, clearly a lot of people still have no idea what multiboxing even is.

[Tonuss]

I hate seeing replies from blues like this... I'm 8 levels away from my first team @ 80, now it makes me realize it could all be taken away at any moment...
This was always the case. Zarhym's post was probably the most succinct way of summarizing Blizzard's stance on multiboxing, though the part about "for now" makes it seem more ominous than intended. My take on the whole issue:

1- Blizzard is fine with multiboxing. Put it however you want-- "they support it" or "they tolerate it" or "they allow it" it all comes down to the same thing. It is not a violation of their rules, nor of their terms of service.

2- As with anything else game-related, Blizzard reserves the right to change that stance if they ever feel that it is necessary to do so.

3- A few retards whining on the forum because their level 75 warlock got repeatedly rocked by a team of 80s that he thought he could mess with is not going to change Blizzard's mind. Nor are level 1 trolls calling multiboxers "noobs" or "no lifers" or whining about how they can't afford $75 a month for a video game (though most of them probably run up $200 phone bills each month... that daddy has to pay for).

4- If Blizzard wanted to stop multiboxing, they could. And please... they can definitely tell if someone is multiboxing, even with hardware. If some mouth-breather on the forums can identify a multiboxer, what makes you think Blizzard can't?

I saw those threads but I just skimmed through a few pages. This issue was settled long ago, and it was settled in our favor with no ambiguity whatsoever. This doesn't mean that Blizzard won't ever change their mind. But it means that all of those idiotic arguments against multiboxing have been made in the past and been shot down by Blizzard reps. I feel that whenever some crybaby comes screeching into the forums about how the big bad multiboxer stole his candy, he deserves to me mocked or, preferably, ignored. He certainly doesn't deserve the courtesy of a serious response anymore.


PS- I still get a kick out of the people who accuse Blizzard of allowing multiboxing because of the added revenue. In essence, they're saying that Blizzard has no integrity and bases its decisions entirely on money. Well, okay. But if the person making this accusation still has an active account, aren't they supporting Blizzard's decision to sell them out for a dollar? Aren't they admitting that they are paying for the privilege of being bent over and reamed without lube, by a corporation that caters to "the rich"?

In the past I pressed the complainers for a response to that question, and not a single person ever responded to it. I'm not kidding, even the most ferocious and insulting trolls who made sure to always get in the last word-- they ALWAYS IGNORED that question. Not a single person bothered to address it. That still makes me smile.

[Toonarmy]

Tonuss's succinct and well articulated position (above).

And that, as they say, is that! Exceptionally well put.

[jinkobi]

This was always the case. Zarhym's post was probably the most succinct way of summarizing Blizzard's stance on multiboxing, though the part about "for now" makes it seem more ominous than intended. My take on the whole issue:

1- Blizzard is fine with multiboxing. Put it however you want-- "they support it" or "they tolerate it" or "they allow it" it all comes down to the same thing. It is not a violation of their rules, nor of their terms of service.

2- As with anything else game-related, Blizzard reserves the right to change that stance if they ever feel that it is necessary to do so.

3- A few retards whining on the forum because their level 75 warlock got repeatedly rocked by a team of 80s that he thought he could mess with is not going to change Blizzard's mind. Nor are level 1 trolls calling multiboxers "noobs" or "no lifers" or whining about how they can't afford $75 a month for a video game (though most of them probably run up $200 phone bills each month... that daddy has to pay for).

4- If Blizzard wanted to stop multiboxing, they could. And please... they can definitely tell if someone is multiboxing, even with hardware. If some mouth-breather on the forums can identify a multiboxer, what makes you think Blizzard can't?

I saw those threads but I just skimmed through a few pages. This issue was settled long ago, and it was settled in our favor with no ambiguity whatsoever. This doesn't mean that Blizzard won't ever change their mind. But it means that all of those idiotic arguments against multiboxing have been made in the past and been shot down by Blizzard reps. I feel that whenever some crybaby comes screeching into the forums about how the big bad multiboxer stole his candy, he deserves to me mocked or, preferably, ignored. He certainly doesn't deserve the courtesy of a serious response anymore.


PS- I still get a kick out of the people who accuse Blizzard of allowing multiboxing because of the added revenue. In essence, they're saying that Blizzard has no integrity and bases its decisions entirely on money. Well, okay. But if the person making this accusation still has an active account, aren't they supporting Blizzard's decision to sell them out for a dollar? Aren't they admitting that they are paying for the privilege of being bent over and reamed without lube, by a corporation that caters to "the rich"?

In the past I pressed the complainers for a response to that question, and not a single person ever responded to it. I'm not kidding, even the most ferocious and insulting trolls who made sure to always get in the last word-- they ALWAYS IGNORED that question. Not a single person bothered to address it. That still makes me smile.

If you look at my previous responses you'll see I essentially said the same thing.:) People who've been around this game a long time have seen the arguement over and over. It was settled long ago. Now if there were more people like Prepared we might have a situation. Fortunately he's one of a kind.

Does Blizzard cater to the rich? Maybe not but they cater to wherever the money is coming from. Why do you think the game has changed so much from Vanilla WOW to cater to casuals? I mean seriously look what they did to raiding over the years.

Like I said in my previous post they realize the people who threaten to quit because of multiboxers VS the number of people multiboxing is vast. They just let the whiners quit because they know it's 1 sub loss instead of 5 or more.

As for integrity... Uhhh what company has integrity when it comes to money? Do I think Blizz is a good company- yes! Do I think they have integrity when it means a money loss- HELL NO! lol

[Stealthy]

As someone who has been boxing for a long time (into my 4th year now), I wouldn't read too much in Zarhym's comments. Blizzard have been 'tolerating' multiboxing for years, his isn't the first time there has been a scare that Blizzard might ban multiboxing, and I doubt it will be the last.

The other thing to remember is Zarhym is a community manager, not a game designer. If Ghostcrawler came out and said he was against boxing, then I'd be concerned. ;)

The sky is NOT falling. For now. :p

Cheers,
S.

[Sam DeathWalker]

Whats preparded doing thats so bad .... he brings in 20 to a AV and controls a single choke point.

His team loses as he can he can only be one place at a time.

And the other team qqs cause they have to win by turtle .....

I mean people win and they qq


lol ...




Oh that dude was community manager well doh .... ya who cares what he say, his job is to say whatever the community wants to hear.

[zenga]

I'm not as long around as most of you, and it seems like i've seen this discussion over and over already. There are tmho 2 main factors that might *kill* boxing:

A] the boxers themselves: i.e. how they behave (if everyone is gonna act elitist, like a jerk -> waisting other people their game, playing just to pwn by outnumbering others, ... etc). The irony here is that the most visible boxers to the non boxers are in fact the aforementioned.

B] The tools becoming insanely powerful. When i see in the short timeframe i box how certain tools/addons/setups have been improved, then i'm afraid at some point they might become too powerful. And blizz will take a stance against it. This while it's legit, but it might change the perception.

[coglistings]

yes, you haven't locked the thread yet.... i win

[Sam DeathWalker]

There will never be a point where we are more powerfull then the same gear/number of seperatly played characters. And I dont really see where wow macros are all that, in EQ we could put in time delays and that was a BIG BIG plus that we don't have here. We could cast FIVE spells with a single click in EQ.

I mean level 80's have been killing me since day one.

When a level 80 kills 30 of my guys when they were level 40 did I qq about it? I even play on a pvp server for more action.

People have sometimes shut down my play time. LoL on SZ I got hammered for years .....

[Slats]

When I can plug a cat5 cable into my head and launch Innerspace and use MindMaps instead of KeyMaps.

Well then.... maybe.

MWUAHAHAHAHAHA.

[Tonuss]

Does Blizzard cater to the rich? Maybe not but they cater to wherever the money is coming from. Why do you think the game has changed so much from Vanilla WOW to cater to casuals? I mean seriously look what they did to raiding over the years.

[...]

As for integrity... Uhhh what company has integrity when it comes to money? Do I think Blizz is a good company- yes! Do I think they have integrity when it means a money loss- HELL NO! lol
You have to understand, the people who are making the argument in those threads are very big on morality and ethics and what is "just" and "fair." For them, a company going after profits is not something to be expected, it is a sign that a company is evil and just a greedy corporate monster that swallows babies whole. The basis of their argument against multiboxing is that it is "wrong" (ie, EVIL) and that Blizzard is wrong (ie, EVIL) for allowing it, because the only reason to allow something that is wrong (ie... you get the picture) is because you get more money, and that is... EVIL.

My question is intended to turn the tables on them. If it's really that big an issue for them, then all I ask is that they explain how they can support EVIL with their spending money. It's all about principles for them, so I point out that there seems to be a bit of a disconnect between what they say and what they do. None of those moral crusaders has managed to answer that question, or even attempted it.

Mind you, this is not the same as the people who complain that "BLIZZARD IS RUINING THE GAME JUST TO MAKE A DOLLAR." That's a wholly illogical stance, and it amazes me that people repeat it. But I have noticed that most of the time, moral indignation is an impulse and not based on any sort of reason or logic. So I just shrug my shoulders and let it go.

[kate]

I'm not as long around as most of you, and it seems like i've seen this discussion over and over already. There are tmho 2 main factors that might *kill* boxing:

A] the boxers themselves: i.e. how they behave (if everyone is gonna act elitist, like a jerk -> waisting other people their game, playing just to pwn by outnumbering others, ... etc). The irony here is that the most visible boxers to the non boxers are in fact the aforementioned.

B] The tools becoming insanely powerful. When i see in the short timeframe i box how certain tools/addons/setups have been improved, then i'm afraid at some point they might become too powerful. And blizz will take a stance against it. This while it's legit, but it might change the perception.

I'm with you on point A for sure. I've seen some people on these forums bragging about how they made someone upset or talking about being nourished by all the "QQ" they cause - it just makes me think that person is an infant, not a badass.

[Dooz]

I'm with you on point A for sure. I've seen some people on these forums bragging about how they made someone upset or talking about being nourished by all the "QQ" they cause - it just makes me think that person is an infant, not a badass.

QFT

Unfortunately, we cannot stop anyone from purchasing/using multi-boxing software/hardware. I've been traveling the WoW world with my 3 man team, and I've found that most people that choose to speak to me are more interested in "how?" I give them a link to this site so they can make up their mind. Having those kinds of statements here does not do anything positive for the boxing communities reputation, and is sort of like hitting your own nuts with a hammer... just plain ignorant. You can say what you want, but you might just talk yourself out of multi-boxing.

That being said... this is the millionth "The sky is falling" thread. I think the statement "For now," is like saying, "we're watching you." As long as we keep it legit it will always be "For now."

[thefunk]

I think the statement "For now," is like saying, "we're watching you." As long as we keep it legit it will always be "For now."

i couldn't put it better myself. This basically answers this thread.

[emps]

and.. 45 bucks? pffft.. just got home from a $300.00 dinner.. $60.00 tip.. (happy birthday to me fyi :cool:)
car payment..500.. bike payment 250.. dropping money on screens, laptop, gifts for my girl, &.. faster computer than most wow players..
I Don't see how 45 bucks is anything... my gym membership is more than that. my cost in starbucks & lunches thru the week is more than that.
and by no means am I 'living large'


I certainly agree.. I sometimes tell people that if I go broke paying my 5 accounts then I have hugggeee problems financially. between private school education for my children, cars, houses, weekend dinner-outs..blach.. WoW is even cheaper than my elder daughter's swimming lessons and half of her violin's.

and happy birthday to you! :D

[emps]

i couldn't put it better myself. This basically answers this thread.

I'm watching what they say and they're watching my actions... I have to pay $75 a month to watch each other?

[Tonuss]

I certainly agree.. I sometimes tell people that if I go broke paying my 5 accounts then I have hugggeee problems financially. between private school education for my children, cars, houses, weekend dinner-outs..blach.. WoW is even cheaper than my elder daughter's swimming lessons and half of her violin's.
I used to reply to those posts by explaining that $75 is nowhere near my biggest monthly expense. And these days, it's only a big monthly expense to someone who doesn't have any monthly expenses. My friend's nine-year-old son has a cell phone. $75 for a few WOW accounts doesn't really sound like a big deal to him, I can assure you.

Someone who thinks that $75 a month for WOW is a back-breaking expense is (IMO) probably not even the person paying for his own $15 a month WOW account.

[Kruschpakx4]

The new post: It's Time to end multiboxing....proof inside

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25026434089&sid=1


http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/2669/wowscrnshot022010021829.jpg

a 20+ pages flameswar on general forums just because the random 200 rated guy without any keybinds (perhaps worst player in the world) and with gearscore add-on whine's about multiboxing advantages

what tha hell is going on these days?

[kate]

Just remember that most of the people who are commenting on the $75/mo expense being a lot are probably paying for WoW out of their allowance or after-school job, so it kind of does seem like a big expense to them.

[Dooz]

a 20+ pages flameswar on general forums just because the random 200 rated guy without any keybinds (perhaps worst player in the world) and with gearscore add-on whine's about multiboxing advantages

what tha hell is going on these days?

It's not just these days. This has been going on for a few years now. I'm not really sure how many years, but my start date @ D-B.com is June 2008, so at the very least, that long. If you noticed how many people said,"so we're starting this thread again." People are tired of hearing about it, because really... there aren't that many of us for this to be a major concern. If anything, I've noticed more acceptance of MB'ing recently. You're always going to have some person that got EM/CL'd complaining in the forums.

The blue post is confirmation that multi-boxing is a legitimate play style. See my post above for what I think "for now" means. Until there is a blue post that states otherwise, I wouldn't be worried. You can speculate all you want, it's your time, but this is nothing new.

[emps]

.....You can speculate all you want, it's your time, but this is nothing new.

completely agree..

now if i can only wave a magic wand and turn my lvl 34 pallies to lvl 60... :(

[Ualaa]

A friend of mine, used RAF for two accounts.
He decided to do the level granting in Goldshire, for maximum exposure.

Someone wanted to know how he was doing that.
So he told them, it was from Rafweed, which is a rare herb you can only farm during the Halloween event.

[Myc]

A friend of mine, used RAF for two accounts.
He decided to do the level granting in Goldshire, for maximum exposure.

Someone wanted to know how he was doing that.
So he told them, it was from Rafweed, which is a rare herb you can only farm during the Halloween event.

It wasn't rare pokemon candy? Ive been tricked! =l
lol nice one

[emps]

A friend of mine, used RAF for two accounts.
He decided to do the level granting in Goldshire, for maximum exposure.

Someone wanted to know how he was doing that.
So he told them, it was from Rafweed, which is a rare herb you can only farm during the Halloween event.


or new promo from blizz to encourage new subs... alt f4 to activate and create a trial clone.

[Source]

I have to say, I will be pretty p***ed off if I buy 5 copies of cataclysm and then they stop multi-boxing or impair it in any way.

I've faced multiboxers in BGs many time and it's a lot of fun to work out how to take them down. Every multiboxer takes up as many spots as they have chars, so... I dunno guys. I genuinely believe that multiboxers add a fun and challenging element to the battlegrounds that makes it far more exciting!

I LOVE coming up against multiboxers.