Raiding is pointless right now.

[Shodokan]

Not going to go into too much detail because of the NDA. But you remember how greens in BC were as good if not better than most END GAME raiding items from vanilla? Yeah it's much worse this time around.

So unless you are doing heroics for money or something there really is no point in gearing. Do what you think is fun but with beta seriously right around the corner (new alpha build last night) and live happening shortly after that... yeah.

[luxlunae]

So? No one ever thought that even end level raiding items would get you more than halfway to the new end cap. The reasons to raid now are to enjoy the experience and get some achievements done. Gear is never a good reason to raid.

[Shodokan]

So? No one ever thought that even end level raiding items would get you more than halfway to the new end cap. The reasons to raid now are to enjoy the experience and get some achievements done. Gear is never a good reason to raid.

It's not like BC or WOTLK where t3 or sunwell gear can last you very long PERIOD. So if you are pugging everything to gear up theres no point. If you have fun and are in a guild with people you enjoy playing with then keep on trucking.

[Powerwar]

I am leveling my lowbie teams and enjoying pvp.

As for the expansion gear, I already figured they would need to make a big change since lots of stats mechanics also change with the expansion.

Anyways, with SCII launch soon, I guess that I will go and pew pew some zerg asses soon.

[Kicksome]

They will adjust the stats on items before release. I think it's too early to say how long items will last based off of what's dropping in the Alpha.

[Malekyth]

If gear is your goal, isn't playing an alpha pointless? You'll lose everything you acquire in a few months.

[Shodokan]

If gear is your goal, isn't playing an alpha pointless? You'll lose everything you acquire in a few months.

I'm in the alpha, but not really playing. I have other friends in the alpha too. (how i got into it in the first place)

[Stabface]

So? No one ever thought that even end level raiding items would get you more than halfway to the new end cap. The reasons to raid now are to enjoy the experience and get some achievements done. Gear is never a good reason to raid.

BT/Sunwell gear didn't get replaced until 80, even then only by ilvl 200+... a bunch of guildmates cleared Naxx and didn't upgrade more than a couple items while leveling (other than gems).

[crowdx]

So really this is "I am in the Alpha" post? As was said, there is no way to compare current gear to what is in the Alpha or the Beta when it rolls out due to all the gear stats will change once the talents change, e.g. no more intellect for hunters, current gear could not be compared to gear in the expansion which have completely different stats.

[thefunk]

So really this is "I am in the Alpha" post?

nevermind

[Tonuss]

Not going to go into too much detail because of the NDA. But you remember how greens in BC were as good if not better than most END GAME raiding items from vanilla? Yeah it's much worse this time around.

So unless you are doing heroics for money or something there really is no point in gearing. Do what you think is fun but with beta seriously right around the corner (new alpha build last night) and live happening shortly after that... yeah.

I don't think that people gear up with the expansion in mind. Having a set of ilvl 251-277 gear on Day One is a nice convenience, but that's it. In any case, I figure that the largest group of players will be hitting the expac in gear that is in the ilvl 187-232 range. New gear and upgrades are part of what keeps a lot of players interested, so it's probably a good idea to obsolete the "old" gear quickly, even if it means a huge gear gap.

[Ualaa]

Well.. they're supposed to be changing all of the current gear, to the new stats. So theoretically, a post-change iLV264 hunter piece will be about as good for an 80th hunter as a current 264 piece is for an 80th hunter, in the same slot.

It's interesting if the early stuff from quests or instances is that much better then 264 gear.

[Myc]

Thanks

for some heads up Sho.
I agree that raiding shouldn't be for the gear but this is nice to know that I don't have any point in spending my gold on stuff I don't 'really' need or wont get good use out of.

[Stabface]

Well, in TBC we had, roughly speaking :

ilvl 115-125 Kara/Gruul/Mag (T4)
ilvl 128-138 SSC/TK gear (T5)
ilvl 141-151 Hyjal/BT gear (T6)
ilvl 154-159 Sunwell gear, KJ had 164's

In WotLK we got :

Borean Tundra / Howling Fjord quests give ilvl 138 green/blue
Grizzly Hills ilvl 154 green/blue, upgrades to some T4
Stormpeaks / Icecrown 174 green/blue, upgrades to some T5
normal L80 dungeon drops 187 blues, crafted 187-200 blues, upgrade some T6
heroic L80 dungeon drops 200 blue/epic, crafted 200 epics = first real upgrades to Sunwell gear here


I feel the bulk of people had around T4 level gear, so you kind of went through the first few zones and didn't upgrade much, but by the time you hit 80 you pretty much replaced everything. It was not worth replacing full T6 for a lot of classes unless you got multiple 200 blues/epics. But really you were on pretty even footing if you were a brand new 80 and did some normal instances/rep grind/crafted items then you had the same level gear as someone who did a ton of raiding in TBC and didn't have much upgrades until heroics/raids.


Now, WotLK raid instances are ICC ilvl 251-277/284. ToTC 232-258, Ulduar 219-239 and Naxx 200-226. And the 5-mans give you 232/245. A common level for gear even for people who play casually would probably be around ilvl 232 so long as they know where to find the vendors.

So what should ilvls in Cataclysm be?

[kadaan]

Level 78 green cata quest rewards are higher ilvl than 277 ICC25 hard mode epics. If you're in full 277+ epics, you'll probably start replacing gear with cata blues on day 1.

Your post title is quite misleading. I think there's a very very small minority who only raid so they can gear themselves out to level in the next expansion. In fact, doing dungeons/raids in cata is pointless right now because WoW 5.0 will replace all those items when it comes out! :P

I haven't killed Arthas 25 hard mode yet, so there's still a big reason for me to continue raiding.

[Littleburst]

I wonder how many boxers raid for gear :D

Plus that, as boxer, gear is a lot less of a problem? If you want to call it a problem. Maybe the tank, if.

Ps: stll, WTB 4 Dislodged Foreign Object.

[Toned]

I wonder how many boxers raid for gear :D

Plus that, as boxer, gear is a lot less of a problem? If you want to call it a problem. Maybe the tank, if.

Ps: stll, WTB 4 Dislodged Foreign Object.


Tied with a 88 on one Friday... then rerolled and lost /wrists !

[Velassra]

Intersting about the gear.....

I'd be more interested in hearing what the instances are like....CC, multiple individual movements/tasks simultaneously, vehicles.

[Lyonheart]

According to a friend who heard it from a friend who ( i know, that sounds like a song) is a Bliz Dev, the goal for gear is like this .Anything under item level 251 will get replaced by 85 with a mix of greens and blues from quests/drops. 251 raiding gear will have most pieces replaced by quest blues and blues dropped, but not all replaced. 264 might have an item or two replaced. 277+ will not get replaced until T11.

I guess we will have to see. 8)

[Whowantstoknow]

I doubt it. Blizz was heavily critised for the Wrath launch that there werent enough upgrades while levelling.

I think we will see something in between BC (too fast) and Wrath (to slow) this time around.

[Svpernova09]

Same exact thing was said pre Wrath, Pre BC, nothing new here. As blues have said, MMOs are a changing world>

Moral of the story: Do what you find fun.

[kadaan]

According to a friend who heard it from a friend who ( i know, that sounds like a song) is a Bliz Dev, the goal for gear is like this .Anything under item level 251 will get replaced by 85 with a mix of greens and blues from quests/drops. 251 raiding gear will have most pieces replaced by quest blues and blues dropped, but not all replaced. 264 might have an item or two replaced. 277+ will not get replaced until T11.

I guess we will have to see. 8)

There are already many leaked screenshots of the loot. When I said 277 epics will be replaced by entry level cata blue items, I wasn't just guessing ;).

[MiRai]

There are already many leaked screenshots of the loot. When I said 277 epics will be replaced by entry level cata blue items, I wasn't just guessing ;).
I saw those leaked screen shots too. Then the new beta build came out the other day and a lot of those items have changed because they're still tweaking everything. I won't deny that they want a full gear wipe going into Cataclysm, though.

But really...
...what's the big surprise to everyone else?

[Ualaa]

One of the strengths of World of Warcraft, compared to the previous king - Everquest, is the gear reset with each expansion.

I remember playing EQ, and in expansion three, some of the best in slot pieces were from classic content - maybe a piece per toon. Maybe 35-50% of your gear, would be best in slot from expansion two, with the other half of the gear upgraded in expansion three. The level of upgrades to gear was much more gradual. A player new to the game... well fresh to maximum level let's say, would probably need to raid for a year and a half with a given guild to catch them on gear (this with expansions every 6-9 months).

Warcraft essentially says, everything before now (current expansion content) is meaningless, except for tactics in encounters - things like, this fight is just like abc except for def. You can start the game sometime in Cataclysm, reach 85th within a few months, and basically be on equal footing a player who in WotLK was in the top guild in the game, or close enough anyway.

The gear reset is good for the casual player.

[Littleburst]

One of the strengths of World of Warcraft, compared to the previous king - Everquest, is the gear reset with each expansion.

I remember playing EQ, and in expansion three, some of the best in slot pieces were from classic content - maybe a piece per toon. Maybe 35-50% of your gear, would be best in slot from expansion two, with the other half of the gear upgraded in expansion three. The level of upgrades to gear was much more gradual. A player new to the game... well fresh to maximum level let's say, would probably need to raid for a year and a half with a given guild to catch them on gear (this with expansions every 6-9 months).

Warcraft essentially says, everything before now (current expansion content) is meaningless, except for tactics in encounters - things like, this fight is just like abc except for def. You can start the game sometime in Cataclysm, reach 85th within a few months, and basically be on equal footing a player who in WotLK was in the top guild in the game, or close enough anyway.

The gear reset is good for the casual player.

Indeed, now only give us a way to close the massive gap called 'leveling toons' >.>

I really hope there's gonna a permenant raf or so, just something to make the horrible grind a faster. (especially for players who's done the grind several times.)

[alcattle]

I doubt it. Blizz was heavily critised for the Wrath launch that there werent enough upgrades while levelling.

I think we will see something in between BC (too fast) and Wrath (to slow) this time around.

and the baby bear cata is just right. (sorry)

[OzPhoenix]

Indeed, now only give us a way to close the massive gap called 'leveling toons' >.>

I really hope there's gonna a permenant raf or so, just something to make the horrible grind a faster. (especially for players who's done the grind several times.)

Yeah, I think that's far more important that a gear reset. For myself, my new team just hit 70 tonight, so I suspect I'll still be gearing up by the time Cata comes out - that's fine, I enjoy gearing up, even if I'm going to toss it right out for the very first Cata-green drop I might get.

The bigger issue is leveling. If leveling in Cata is anything like as tedious as it is in Northrend, then I can see an expiry date for me and WoW since I could do that leveling grind just once more - and that covers my primary team only, leaving no options for alternate teams.

Hint to Blizzard: Stop making collection quests single player drop. MMO's shouldn't discourage group leveling.

[Myc]

MMO's shouldn't discourage group leveling.

lets hope this guild leveling will do something right.

[SaraiE]

For newbies like me, should I spend my time lvling my alts instead of geared up? Or lvl all the profession skills up?

First team is at 77, so I am not sure when Cata is going to be released.

Curious...

SaraiE

[Ualaa]

I would get the first team to 80th.
And do Wintergrasp and Heroics, with a goal of PvP +10% EXP Shoulders and PvE +10% EXP Chest.
Chances are, the best way to do this will be to solo run your tank through the dungeon finder on a weekend.
And then run your team, with the semi-geared tank, taking 9.1 tier upgrades, along with iLV 200 drops.
And then once you can run a bunch of heroics, do the badge BoA gear.

I went with Cloth - caster stats & Leader - melee stats.
But really, you could get by with Cloth shoulders and Cloth chest, for all toons.
The 20% experience reduction, greatly helps other teams in leveling.
It is two fewer levels of collections in Northrend.
It is dinging 68th in late Terrokar or early Nagrand.

Also an 80th team, can do dailies for about 1k+ gold per day, in about an hour.
You can buy BoA Cold-Flying books, which will make Northrend much easier for later teams.
You can even mail BoA items across factions, to assist any of your teams.



I'd say Levels > All.
But certain BoA's will get the levels faster.

Professions are gold, which is quite nice.
You might prioritize toons to 68th, then professions for passive gold generation.
And then once they're all 68th, gradually work them up towards 80th, playing whichever set has rested.
I'm pretty much doing that now - 3 of 7 sets are 80th, 5 are between 68th and 75th.

[Myc]

SaraiE,

depends on what you want to do. don't get burnt out doing 1 thing thats for sure =p
cata is still a while but definitely coming fast.

as for professions.. they will be easy'r to level in cata ..or so they say
and... gearing up wont benefit much for to long but its fun and you can see the content if you have not already.

[Tonuss]

The only character I plan to continue to gear up at this point is my shaman, since he is raiding with a guild.

I have one hunter that I geared up in mostly 232 gear via LFD, and a second that I was doing that for, though that was mostly for fun and to have a couple of DPS that I could use if I wanted to complete some outdoor group quests for my shaman.

I have a mixed group of mostly 'cast off' characters (priest, warlock, mage, rogue, hunter) that are either 74 or 75. I'm not sure what I'll do with them, I may just quest them through to level 80. One of them is my only alchemist, and until a week ago, one of them was my only JC. What I decided to do in my spare time is try to level up a new group (a priest and four mages) and have them all do JC and alchemy as professions. I have way too many gatherers for no good reason (at least two of each for mining, skinning, and herbalism... sigh) and finally (thanks in part to topics here) discovered the ease with which you can generate gold via those two professions. And it's nice that I would also be able to use them to quickly gem up one of my own characters if I wanted.

So my plan for the expac is to try and have at least six each JC/alchemist and at least 12 level 80s (though that could be as many as 17 if I level the group of stragglers as well). And in the meantime, have as much fun doing it as I can. Gearing up my hunters one at a time via LFD has been more fun than I expected (very few bad experiences so far) and I think that I'll be able to do some fun stuff as I level the caster group via quests and perhaps some AE grinding.

Sorry, I'm rambling. I'm just thinking that the priest + 4 mage group is going to be ridiculously fun for a while.

[Redbeard]

You know i was getting pretty gung ho about starting to buy some nice gear for my guys etc but this thread does bring up some valid points.

Once I get past the daunting goal of 9 more epic flyers (i dont make money that quickly) I think maybe ill just sit on my cash. Hrm.

[Acidburning]

Does this mean at lvl 85 in greens, i can 4box TK/ Kael for the mount?!? :D

[Myc]

Does this mean at lvl 85 in greens, i can 4box TK/ Kael for the mount?!? :D

Has anyone tried it? succeeded? (now obviously, not cata)
I always want to go try it. seen a post elsewhere that it can be 5-6maned with a good group.
picking up weapons seems a pain

if not.. cheer for 85greens lol =p
hope they dont take away things like zg tiger/horse/alar.. (till i get one)

[jinkobi]

Has anyone tried it? succeeded? (now obviously, not cata)
I always want to go try it. seen a post elsewhere that it can be 5-6maned with a good group.
picking up weapons seems a pain

if not.. cheer for 85greens lol =p
hope they dont take away things like zg tiger/horse/alar.. (till i get one)

Getting Ashes of Alar is like the pinnacle of what I intend to do in my multiboxing career. I figure by Cataclysm if equipment isn't too nerfed it may be possible. Right now it still takes like 10 level 80's and the mechanics of the fight make it very tough to box. The having to use the legendary weapons+gravity lapse make it complex.

Figure a geared 5 box team might could pull it off at 85 by sheer muscle alone.

[daviddoran]

Warcraft is a game about upgrading gear. Always has been, always will be. I could see not putting a huge effort into getting the maximum gear possible when an expansion is near, but "pointless" is too strong of a word IMO. I have fun raiding, I have fun tweaking macros, gear, gems/enchants, to see bosses go down faster, trying out hardmodes, etc. Gear is secondary.

If you want to play a game where your gear lasts, wow is not that game.

[jinkobi]

Warcraft is a game about upgrading gear. Always has been, always will be. I could see not putting a huge effort into getting the maximum gear possible when an expansion is near, but "pointless" is too strong of a word IMO. I have fun raiding, I have fun tweaking macros, gear, gems/enchants, to see bosses go down faster, trying out hardmodes, etc. Gear is secondary.

If you want to play a game where your gear lasts, wow is not that game.

That's why I try to go for things which last forever such as titles, mounts, achievements. Got my 'the Insane' title, Thunderfury, Reigns of the Raven Lord, Rivendare's Deathcharger, Swift Hawkstrider, Zulian Raptor, Time Lost Proto Drake, etc... I may not raid but I have fun and get stuff that's cool to me :)

[Souca]

That's why I try to go for things which last forever such as titles, mounts, achievements. Got my 'the Insane' title, Thunderfury, Reigns of the Raven Lord, Rivendare's Deathcharger, Swift Hawkstrider, Zulian Raptor, Time Lost Proto Drake, etc... I may not raid but I have fun and get stuff that's cool to me :)

^^ This.

I only have the Rivendare's Deathcharger on one, but I still get looks because of it. Hell, I pissed off an entire guild when the achievement popped up when it dropped. All my cool mounts, not just the rare ones, still bring a smile to my face.

From a purely mathmatical game theory standpoint, the mount does nothing for me, but they do give me things to go after that make me smile ;) Gear is only good when it helps me do that, or it looks cool.

- Souca -

[Toned]

I know the gear reset will happen but my goals are still the same get atleast 1 season of WOTLK 5s above 1800-2k range. Kill LK (4 boxed) before cata.

[alcattle]

also, like others said, we not maxed out, we have not raided everything. I have never raided, mostly because of my play times but also I am a bad player when it comes down to it. I am always trying to get better and still enjoy trying things.

[Dramoth]

I levelled my hunter and paladin to 80 without swapping out any of their epic lvl 70 gear.

I didnt see the point of it as most of the green stuff I was getting was crap compared to their epics and the blues were about the same.

So I am just going to keep gearing up all my toons, Do the 5 level rush and start gearing up again when they have all hit cap.

[Toned]

Has anyone tried it? succeeded? (now obviously, not cata)
I always want to go try it. seen a post elsewhere that it can be 5-6maned with a good group.
picking up weapons seems a pain

if not.. cheer for 85greens lol =p
hope they dont take away things like zg tiger/horse/alar.. (till i get one)

Did a little flashback night last night. Did Kara/Gruuls/Mags then went to TK. Almost downed alar only tried her once had her at less than a million health. I'll go back and down her next time. Was really after my Ashes of Alar, but Kael is a little bastard going to macro the weapons and give it another try next week. If I'm able to pull it off I'll let you guys know.