View Full Version : At last! 5x Paladins hit the "big" time!
I finally hit 80 on my 5 paladins and immediately turned around and started trying to run Heroic Utgarde Keep. There were a couple of deaths along the way to Ingvar, but all were due to me being lazy with pulling. Each of the bosses went down on the first try, except for Ingvar - I was experiencing some kind of positional lag or something, as about half the time when he would do his smash thing it would look like he was facing away but he was still facing me. On one try I managed to get his phase 2 aspect to 5k health, but I had to stop trying after 3-4 wipes.
Anyway, at least now I can get at least 2 badges per run, which at my current rate probably means 4 badges an hour, but at least now I can start getting geared up.
I think I'm going to save up 80 badges on each, buy some heirlooms and get my shaman group kitted out so that I can boost them and then have some options for heroics that require ranged.
tl;dr version: I can finally do heroics by myself! Woo!
Boylston
04-26-2010, 09:17 AM
Tip for Ingvar... Make sure your rets are well behind him, and be careful with threat. I let my tank run in first, swing for a second or two, then use IWT or attack on the Rets to bring them into his hitbox range behind him.
When he morphs/respawns, BACK THEM UP and repeat the process. If at any point it looks like you have rets in front or under him, pull the boss away and reposition everyone.
When you get the positioning down so that only the tank is hit by smashes, it's cake. Don't rush, and make sure you heal your team up to full if needed.
I had an epic fight when I was first gearing up where one of my rets pulled aggro in phase 2 with him at about 5% health. He cast flipped around and dark smashed all 4 rets, leaving only my DK alive. The DK finished off the boss, but then I had all rezzers dead. Fun times!
Seldum
04-26-2010, 09:57 AM
Gratz on the 80! :D
You should link your toons so we can keep up on your progression.
My problem in most boss fights is that I'm a spaz and I just hit every key I have like a crazed monkey :) This technique worked wonders for normal dungeons, but I guess I'll have to refine it for heroics!
There are a few things working against me right now:
1) I'm literally just barely geared to do heroics with my tank. Maybe slightly better than just barely, but not much - I've no epics, still one green item, and the "daunting" or "tempered" saronite stuff that's craftable. I've got my blacksmith up to 450, so I can make anything the trainers teach me - not sure if it's worth investing in the titansteel stuff just yet since I'll always get the relevant drops.
2) My retadin dps seems to be hovering around 1000-1500 DPS, according to recount, so they aren't very geared either. They're also doing double duty - healing the tank and themselves while also doing DPS, so I guess that's not too bad, actually. When I whack on a dummy to try them as pure dps with no healing that does go up a bit, but that's just not gonna be happening, so I don't worry about it.
3) My talent specs are wacky - once I get home and can make sure I have all the proper names I'll link them, but basically my tank is the only one who's used all talent points, each Ret I couldn't figure out what to put the last 7-10 points in. My glyphing is also a bit off, I think, but not too miserable. I know I could probably be a bit more survivable on my tank with a better set-up - right now I am mostly protection, and specced a bit into ret to get the seal of command to do more multi-target damage & recover mana since I was running low due to being overgeared for many normal dungeons and too lazy to use divine plea...
4) My rotations are completely wacky - I need to set up 969 macros for my tank, at the least. With ret it's pretty much "use anything that's on cooldown" so they're pretty much good to go, I think.
Grats!,
I got the same team just got first piece of tier gear yesterday, out gearing dungeons seems to be a big key with ret team. [DPS race] Though I am having troubles with the first boss in TOC.. =l the rogue owns the group no matter what without a healer but I cant stop to not dps... but if u have luck in TOC good starting gear on normal and triumphs
also If you are ready you should give Normal Forge of Souls a try, I got 1st boss down no problem. (2nd can only get to like 100k =l) but anyways u can get a triumph from there and epic loot.
3) My talent specs are wacky - once I get home and can make sure I have all the proper names I'll link them, but basically my tank is the only one who's used all talent points, each Ret I couldn't figure out what to put the last 7-10 points in. My glyphing is also a bit off, I think, but not too miserable. I know I could probably be a bit more survivable on my tank with a better set-up - right now I am mostly protection, and specced a bit into ret to get the seal of command to do more multi-target damage & recover mana since I was running low due to being overgeared for many normal dungeons and too lazy to use divine plea...
DOH! haha, I forgot to add my last glyph and fix up specs a little.
v v [If you care..] v v
I recommend using this as basic spec for all. with the 4 points spare.. (mainly pve)
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sVZEZVf0xbIuhdIfsu
then 1 pally can have some points in Vindication
other could have aura mastery (but u will loose good stats :()
maybe even have one get improved blessing of wisdom
or divine purpose (seems specs not that flexible now that Seal Of Corruption is good)
Acerak
04-26-2010, 02:25 PM
Melee teams are hugely fun..gratz! I totally know what you mean about smashing buttons like a monkey...I still do that sometimes. I run prot pally/ret pally/enhance sham/feral druid/resto shaman
If you stick with it, you'll find that there will come a point where you will relax. There will also be times when you want to throw your monitor our the window...heh. You can't make too many mistakes as a boxer with a fresh 80 team, as one or two mistakes means you wipe..it's a rough road at first. Gear eventually provides a nice buffer.
One nice thing is that the standard heroic dungeons were designed pre-badgeflation, so once you get even a few of triumph badge gear pieces they will become much easier. My team is at about 4800gs, which is about where I planned to stop as upgrades come much more slowly. At that gearlevel, almost all the heroics are a joke they are so easy.
My advice:
I farmed the gold and made the titansteel stuff for my entire team, including weapons. I don't regret doing this one bit---one piece of ilvl200 gear is substantially better than green or even blue quest rewards or normal dungeon drops. The titansteel boots and helm for rets are both particularly awesome at their ilvl, and you won't replace the titansteel shield on your tank for quite awhile as there are only a few upgrades available - I think it wasn't until I was able to beat Halls of Reflection that I replaced it.
Normal ToC is tough at first, particularly if you get unlucky and get the rogue and/or the bladestorming warrior. Once you get a bit more gear, ToC/Forge of Souls/Pit of Saron runs are definitely where it's at for gearing up fast (in roughly that order). HoR is tough at first even on normal, but once you get it on farm you've made it to easy street.
Keep in mind that the three ICC dungeons drop Triumph badges even on normal mode.
Also, stamina is HUGE for a melee box group, and the pre-dungeon stuff just doesn't have enough...I recommend tossing the heavy borean stam kits on any non-enchanted spots as it is super cheap to do so and the overall effect on your team is substantial.
Give Gundrak a try for starters as well..I found that to be the easiest heroic. You can skip/bypass most of the bosses if you are having trouble with one of them (end boss requires killing the rest, though). Most of Utgarde Keep and Utgarde Pinnacle are a faceroll as well, although the Skadi gauntlet takes some thought.
Exciting to hear others enjoying a melee team :)
Catamer
04-26-2010, 02:37 PM
for Ingvar I have my pallys stand in the center of the circle facing away from him, they way you entered the room. and I have the prot pally pull him in front of the team. the ret pallys are all behind him and my prot pally is in front of him. I guess that assumes your prot pally can handle a full hit from him because your ret pallys sure can't.
for Ingvar I have my pallys stand in the center of the circle facing away from him, they way you entered the room. and I have the prot pally pull him in front of the team. the ret pallys are all behind him and my prot pally is in front of him. I guess that assumes your prot pally can handle a full hit from him because your ret pallys sure can't.
I normally have my rets behind him, prot in front, and when he begins to cast smash I run through him - he doesn't turn around (at least on normal) while casting, so I don't get hit.
But, if it turns out that he can turn on heroic, well, then I guess I'll just have to suck up the hit. Right now, my prot pally has 20.2k HP, while the ret all have about 18k, which means the ret gets one-shotted.
Maybe I'll just try to time the flash of light spam to go off right after he does his smash so my tank doesn't die.
Thanks for the advice and suggestions, all - I have, it turns out, gotten the titansteel shield on my paladin and put titanium plating on it since I don't need more defense just yet. I'll bite the bullet and craft the titansteel stuff for the rets - I was just hoping I could ride out the early runs and gear up without spending an arm and a leg, but I think I won't be able to.
I'll post the armory links later.
ghonosyph
04-26-2010, 06:09 PM
given how cheap the mats are, if you have a miner you should be able to do this:
Buy a TON of saronite ore and smelt it into bars, then have an alchemist thats transumte spec make titanium bars out of it for you.
After this, SELL THE BARS, you'll average around 8 to 10 gold per bar for every bar you sell if your server is anything like mine. Once you've got a good buffer of gold(like 1 to 2 k) start buying and selling frozen orbs. lol i did this playing the market a little bit, and eventually spent 4 k gold total to gear up ALL 5 paladins with titansteel bar gear. the 245 chest and bracers, the 226 belts and boots, and the titansteel destroyer /shield for my prot.
Titansteel bars in and of themselves are VERY cheap to make if you gather and can smelt yourself. My tactic worked wonders, first you buy a couple stacks of cheap eternal earth and shadows, then a TON of saronite ore*(given that its cheap enough ie 8 to 10 gold a stack) check the price on saronite bars if you can buy two stacks of ore for cheaper than 1 stack of bars buy it, smelt it, resell it. Get some cash under your belt and make all bunch of titanium bars and frozen orbs and make some titansteel out of it :) lol
so far i've been able to do a bunch of heroics and even a few heroic achievements and have gathered up 2 or 3 pc's of t9 already too. Its been a fun process and it keeps getting better lol!
I'm anxious to get my battered hilt farming done as well, i've been buying and selling and doing dailies and i've gotten two battered hilts so far :) need to get a couple more for my other two rets and i'll be set ! 8)
given how cheap the mats are, if you have a miner you should be able to do this:
Buy a TON of saronite ore and smelt it into bars, then have an alchemist thats transumte spec make titanium bars out of it for you.
After this, SELL THE BARS, you'll average around 8 to 10 gold per bar for every bar you sell if your server is anything like mine. Once you've got a good buffer of gold(like 1 to 2 k) start buying and selling frozen orbs. lol i did this playing the market a little bit, and eventually spent 4 k gold total to gear up ALL 5 paladins with titansteel bar gear. the 245 chest and bracers, the 226 belts and boots, and the titansteel destroyer /shield for my prot.
Titansteel bars in and of themselves are VERY cheap to make if you gather and can smelt yourself. My tactic worked wonders, first you buy a couple stacks of cheap eternal earth and shadows, then a TON of saronite ore*(given that its cheap enough ie 8 to 10 gold a stack) check the price on saronite bars if you can buy two stacks of ore for cheaper than 1 stack of bars buy it, smelt it, resell it. Get some cash under your belt and make all bunch of titanium bars and frozen orbs and make some titansteel out of it :) lol
so far i've been able to do a bunch of heroics and even a few heroic achievements and have gathered up 2 or 3 pc's of t9 already too. Its been a fun process and it keeps getting better lol!
I'm anxious to get my battered hilt farming done as well, i've been buying and selling and doing dailies and i've gotten two battered hilts so far :) need to get a couple more for my other two rets and i'll be set ! 8)
Oh, I've got about 5k in cash and maybe another 2-3k in materials of various sorts if I could ever get bothered to sell them - I pretty much just did dungeons for the first 65 levels and then mixed in a little questing with my dungeoneering. I just don't wanna spend it all :)
Okay, I have finally had a chance to connect from home (couldn't access Armory at work, alas), so here are my current paladins:
Tank: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Undermine&cn=katalepsy
Ret (they are all, with very slight changes in talent spec to get improved Blessing of Might, Swift Retribution and Sanctified Retribution, the same): http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Undermine&cn=Valeda
I will happily take any suggestions for improving them - talent spec changes, glyph changes, equipment suggestions etc., so please fire away!
Ret (they are all, with very slight changes in talent spec to get improved Blessing of Might, Swift Retribution and Sanctified Retribution, the same): http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Undermine&cn=Valeda
isn't Glyph of Seal of Vengeance better and to use seal of corruption?
I am not sure if it is only better once you have gear or not.. but for long fights I am sure it is better.
- good ret pally to look at http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Lightning%27s+Blade&cn=Iiris&gn=Paragon
or read on some pally tips on Elitest jerks.. http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t68951-retribution_updated_3_3_a/
--Seal of Vengeance: (see below for full details)
33% weapon damage + 2.5% AP + 1.3% spell power per tick
--Seal of Command:
36% weapon damage
also this sites kinda cool for input if you don't have a clue were to spend badges - http://retributionpaladins.com/ret-paladin-frost-emblem-pick-order/
http://retributionpaladins.com/entry-paladin-level-80-gear-boe/
(sorry for so many links... I read alot on my grind to 80 so I was ready lol)
jinkobi
04-27-2010, 11:29 AM
Gear up first then think about heirloom gear imho unless you're trying to milk the RAF.
Heroics become trivial once you get a bit of gear etc... and eventually you have badges collecting dust minus frosties.
isn't Glyph of Seal of Vengeance better and to use seal of corruption?
I am not sure if it is only better once you have gear or not.. but for long fights I am sure it is better.
- good ret pally to look at http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Lightning%27s+Blade&cn=Iiris&gn=Paragon
or read on some pally tips on Elitest jerks.. http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t68951-retribution_updated_3_3_a/
--Seal of Vengeance: (see below for full details)
33% weapon damage + 2.5% AP + 1.3% spell power per tick
--Seal of Command:
36% weapon damage
also this sites kinda cool for input if you don't have a clue were to spend badges - http://retributionpaladins.com/ret-paladin-frost-emblem-pick-order/
http://retributionpaladins.com/entry-paladin-level-80-gear-boe/
(sorry for so many links... I read alot on my grind to 80 so I was ready lol)
Seal of command made it so I don't run out of mana on my DPS. Vengeance, as I understood it, is good for long fights, but on short/trash fights command is better DPS and also for the mana return utility, I think? Edit: According to that EJ article, anything that dies under 12 seconds (which is everything but bosses), SoC is better than SoV since SoV takes time to ramp. Also, it makes me hit more targets with Crusader Strike - which is huge since everything except boss fights is an AoE fest.
Edit 2: I'm going to try starting off fights by ticking Divine Plea, which I hadn't even been thinking of because I'm a dope :) That should make mana issues go away, I hope.
So I'll swap seals for boss fights that have no adds, to vengeance, but keep the SoC glyph to have the best of both worlds.
Thanks for the links - those are really useful! :)
sounds right kate, I wasnt actually to sure about it but I just read to confirm that 'SoC is our cleaving/trash seal'-EJ.
for mana tho gotta love our 4x replen :D
sounds right kate, I wasnt actually to sure about it but I just read to confirm that 'SoC is our cleaving/trash seal'-EJ.
for mana tho gotta love our 4x replen :D
It's definitely good stuff - I think I am going to try experimenting some. There are definitely some changes I have to make over what the EJ article suggests:
- All of their stuff assumes a dedicated healer - with my 5x paladin group, I get healing from Divine Storm and lots of AoW spam from everyone; so far as I can tell from my experience with Heroic Utgarde Keep, I don't actually need a dedicated healer - the problem hasn't been not enough healing, but just bad tactics killing my DPS in 1-hit. So, since my healing is distributed, I need to glyph Divine Storm, which is probably better than the Glyph of Seal of Vengeance/Corruption since 10 expertise isn't that big a loss.
- Gonna see if swapping out my Glyph of Seal of Command for a Glyph of Consecration will help reduce mana use so I don't need the 8% bump every time I Judge.
- Maybe a little more discipline when I spam my heal button :) While FoL is cheap to cast, spamming it is not so good when it isn't needed.
- Hotbutton for Divine Plea.
Thanks again for the ideas and links!
Edit: Any suggestions for Triumph Emblem purchases? I'm so far away from even thinking about Frost purchases as yet - that guide is for those.
Acerak
04-27-2010, 01:51 PM
given how cheap the mats are, if you have a miner you should be able to do this:
Buy a TON of saronite ore and smelt it into bars, then have an alchemist thats transumte spec make titanium bars out of it for you.
After this, SELL THE BARS, you'll average around 8 to 10 gold per bar for every bar you sell if your server is anything like mine. Once you've got a good buffer of gold(like 1 to 2 k) start buying and selling frozen orbs. lol i did this playing the market a little bit, and eventually spent 4 k gold total to gear up ALL 5 paladins with titansteel bar gear. the 245 chest and bracers, the 226 belts and boots, and the titansteel destroyer /shield for my prot.
Titansteel bars in and of themselves are VERY cheap to make if you gather and can smelt yourself. My tactic worked wonders, first you buy a couple stacks of cheap eternal earth and shadows, then a TON of saronite ore*(given that its cheap enough ie 8 to 10 gold a stack) check the price on saronite bars if you can buy two stacks of ore for cheaper than 1 stack of bars buy it, smelt it, resell it. Get some cash under your belt and make all bunch of titanium bars and frozen orbs and make some titansteel out of it :) lol
so far i've been able to do a bunch of heroics and even a few heroic achievements and have gathered up 2 or 3 pc's of t9 already too. Its been a fun process and it keeps getting better lol!
I'm anxious to get my battered hilt farming done as well, i've been buying and selling and doing dailies and i've gotten two battered hilts so far :) need to get a couple more for my other two rets and i'll be set ! 8)
Just a quick note: Be careful when dispensing this kind of advice, as it's completely server dependent. What you recommend here is actually a losing strategy on my AH - people already know these tricks, and so prices reflect that. If you did the saronite/alchemist flip on my server, you'd generally lose money. I'm actually a bit jealous that it still works on yours :)
Blacky_Chan
04-28-2010, 09:59 PM
Hehe grats on 80 :) don't rush yourself soloing UK can get a bit frustrating if it's your first time as 5x 80.. But you will master it fairley soon.
Hehe grats on 80 :) don't rush yourself soloing UK can get a bit frustrating if it's your first time as 5x 80.. But you will master it fairley soon.
It doesn't feel like I'm mastering anything - I'm running into a brick wall on *normal* Halls of Lightning (the lightning boss - I really have no idea how to approach that fight). I keep getting random heroics where I can't even take a single boss.
I think I need to finish gearing up on my rets so I get some better damage, but it's gonna be slow going until I can start at least clearing the randoms.
Blacky_Chan
04-28-2010, 10:27 PM
It doesn't feel like I'm mastering anything - I'm running into a brick wall on *normal* Halls of Lightning (the lightning boss - I really have no idea how to approach that fight). I keep getting random heroics where I can't even take a single boss.
I think I need to finish gearing up on my rets so I get some better damage, but it's gonna be slow going until I can start at least clearing the randoms.
Yes better gear will definatly help... But the main attribute for us is technique as it's about 50x harder having to do all roles at ones instead of sticking to one so just strategize.
Yes better gear will definatly help... But the main attribute for us is technique as it's about 50x harder having to do all roles at ones instead of sticking to one so just strategize.
In some cases I can't - I'm not using ISBoxer or anything that will broadcast keys held down (to move/spread out) so some fights are just not doable yet (I'm looking at you, Ionar!) In other cases, though, it's just driving me nuts - I've been running instances with these characters since level 15 - 90% of their leveling was done with dungeon runs - but suddenly it's like I'm just getting demolished in fights that I should be able to handle. At least I can take out 2 bosses in UK, so that's 2 badges a day on top of the (hopefully) 2 from the random normal...
I also think I must be doing something totally, completely wrong when it comes to DPS: none of my people is going above 1600 DPS. Granted I'm not very well geared, but it feels like I've been totally stagnant, gear-wise.
I know I could probably improve my gear if I just ran 1 character through the LFD at a time, but I'm just not willing to do it, so it's the slow and steady way for me...
OzPhoenix
04-29-2010, 09:01 AM
In some cases I can't - I'm not using ISBoxer or anything that will broadcast keys held down (to move/spread out) so some fights are just not doable yet (I'm looking at you, Ionar!) In other cases, though, it's just driving me nuts - I've been running instances with these characters since level 15 - 90% of their leveling was done with dungeon runs - but suddenly it's like I'm just getting demolished in fights that I should be able to handle. At least I can take out 2 bosses in UK, so that's 2 badges a day on top of the (hopefully) 2 from the random normal...
I also think I must be doing something totally, completely wrong when it comes to DPS: none of my people is going above 1600 DPS. Granted I'm not very well geared, but it feels like I've been totally stagnant, gear-wise.
I know I could probably improve my gear if I just ran 1 character through the LFD at a time, but I'm just not willing to do it, so it's the slow and steady way for me...
H CoS should be easy badges as well for you.
I think as a Multiboxer, especially and all-melee team, you can't expect to ding 80 run to Dalaran and start rampaging through Heroics in i150-174 greens and below, any more than 5 independently played characters could I reckon.
I don't know whether it's already been mentioned but to try and ease the curve a little there's obvious choices in crafted gear. For example, my Paladin team (level 50 and climbing fast), has (of course) a Blacksmither in their ranks, and sitting in the bank are both the Prot and Ret i245 epic chest piece patterns, along with the necessary mats to make them.
Add to that is the i200 epic shield for the Prot (and if Battered Hilts continue to fall in price I might pick four of them up to for my Rets). I'd also suggest using pots/elixirs as crutches while you gear them up, along with drum-buffs (my team also includes both an Alchemist and Leatherworker), and if your gold permits, you could look into the i200 trinkets commonly available.
Still H UK, H Nexus and H CoS should be doable right out of the gate so long as your equipment isn't absolutely shoddy (that is, you've built yourself the crafted epics at least).
H CoS should be easy badges as well for you.
I think as a Multiboxer, especially and all-melee team, you can't expect to ding 80 run to Dalaran and start rampaging through Heroics in i150-174 greens and below, any more than 5 independently played characters could I reckon.
I don't know whether it's already been mentioned but to try and ease the curve a little there's obvious choices in crafted gear. For example, my Paladin team (level 50 and climbing fast), has (of course) a Blacksmither in their ranks, and sitting in the bank are both the Prot and Ret i245 epic chest piece patterns, along with the necessary mats to make them.
Add to that is the i200 epic shield for the Prot (and if Battered Hilts continue to fall in price I might pick four of them up to for my Rets). I'd also suggest using pots/elixirs as crutches while you gear them up, along with drum-buffs (my team also includes both an Alchemist and Leatherworker), and if your gold permits, you could look into the i200 trinkets commonly available.
Still H UK, H Nexus and H CoS should be doable right out of the gate so long as your equipment isn't absolutely shoddy (that is, you've built yourself the crafted epics at least).
Yeah, I think the problem I had was one of expectation - I keep forgetting that pretty much every "so you just hit 80 and want to run heroics..." guide out there is intended for people who are single-boxing, and, even more, expects that people can be carried somewhat by their team. When I hit 80 as a single-boxer, I pretty much just jumped into heroics - and when I did that this time I forgot how insanely overgeared every team I was on was.
So, last night after getting pummeled to death yet again, I took a step back and did a whole lot of looking at the stuff I need. Instead of saving up for big pieces (50+ badge cost), I started looking at what is least expensive but gives the most impact.
For my tank, that'll be the titansteel feet and helm (I already have the shield). With badges, there is an amulet - shard of the crystal forest - that would be a huge upgrade, and then after that just grabbing the 30 badge gloves and shoulders and going from there. I figure even if I "waste" badges on things that might get replaced quickly, I'll still be in a better position to get more badges.
And yeah - I just need to figure out how to handle vehicle combat so I can do part 1 of ToC. Guess my time today is going to be spent at the tournament grounds trying to figure it out!
Thanks, all, for the ideas and suggestions!
OzPhoenix
04-29-2010, 09:28 AM
Yeah, I think the problem I had was one of expectation - I keep forgetting that pretty much every "so you just hit 80 and want to run heroics..." guide out there is intended for people who are single-boxing, and, even more, expects that people can be carried somewhat by their team. When I hit 80 as a single-boxer, I pretty much just jumped into heroics - and when I did that this time I forgot how insanely overgeared every team I was on was.
So, last night after getting pummeled to death yet again, I took a step back and did a whole lot of looking at the stuff I need. Instead of saving up for big pieces (50+ badge cost), I started looking at what is least expensive but gives the most impact.
For my tank, that'll be the titansteel feet and helm (I already have the shield). With badges, there is an amulet - shard of the crystal forest - that would be a huge upgrade, and then after that just grabbing the 30 badge gloves and shoulders and going from there. I figure even if I "waste" badges on things that might get replaced quickly, I'll still be in a better position to get more badges.
And yeah - I just need to figure out how to handle vehicle combat so I can do part 1 of ToC. Guess my time today is going to be spent at the tournament grounds trying to figure it out!
Thanks, all, for the ideas and suggestions!
Kate - yep, I know how those expectations can be - whenever I've got a new team to 80, first thing I've wanted to do is go straight into Heroics, but it works no better for us than it does for single-boxers (and indeed, rather worse for us).
There's some other options I neglected to mention to:
1. Icecrown group quests - you should have no trouble doing them (assuming you've actually quested Icecrown to open them up), and there's some half-decent i200 blue rewards in case you have any outrageously craptastic pieces needing replacements.
2. Gear the prot first - I notice in your post you're talking about that, and I think it's a winning strategy. So long as the prot is half-decently geared he/she can carry the four sub-par Rets, but if the Prot is taking such high damage that the Rets are spending half their time healing him/her it'll be a real hard slog.
There's so many crafted options available now that, gold permitting, you really should be able to gear out the Prot without leaving Dalaran so that at least the tanks kit is passable for Heroics (even if it's wildly uneven between great pieces and crappy ones).
As an absolute last resort, you could even run the Prot through a few dungeons without the Rets in pugs I guess.
And your badge-spending strategy is a winner too I think. For each team I've gotten to 80 I had an Excel spreadsheet fully laden out with every badge purchase (triumph anyway) that I was intending for them, and the order in which I intended to get them. As you mentioned go for the smaller rewards first, that give you the most bang for the buck (particularly those that retire the worst current items).
Once you've gotten all kit to at least i200 Blue or better, you should find you start facerolling the easier Heroics (UK, UP, Nexus, Gun) and find the harder ones at least doable. It's a virtuous circle, the more gear you get, the easier it is to get more gear, you just need to push yourself over that initial hump is all. :)
I'd be keen to hear more of your progress. My guys are only 50 (after about 8 days of leveling with no RAF, no Heirlooms) and now I'm back from my recent business trip to Melbourne I'm hoping to push them up to 80 just as quickly as possible, so any updates on your own progress would be very interesting.
Seldum
04-29-2010, 09:28 AM
If you are having alot of trouble, consider spending a weekend or something along those line, just gearing up your tank using PUG's.
The tank is really the key to getting easy through the instances. At least this is "rule" with the holy trinity setup.
Well, I just spent 15 minutes spending the rest of my gold :)
I now have the tempered titansteel helm and boots, gemmed and enchanted (well, the helm doesn't have an enchant yet - building rep to buy the one I want) as well as the forest shard necklace. The upshot is that I have about 2.2k more health, buffed, slightly less defense (still at 540, though), 600 more armor, 28 more spell power.
Next for-money purchases will probably be a titanium band if I haven't had a good ring drop by the time I have the gold. Badges will probably be shoulders, hands and then the clutch ring.
Here I am, with my fresh kit:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Undermine&cn=Katalepsy
Is it wrong that I want to take the day off of work just to run dungeons? :)
Oh, and with the running solo thing - if I absolutely can't make any progress, then yeah, that'll probably be the thing to do. I actually dread it, but I can wade in the sewer if I need to.
Fat Tire
04-29-2010, 10:34 AM
Is it wrong that I want to take the day off of work just to run dungeons? :)
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/1232/1210300064121rv8ej8.jpg
He looks REALLY into it.
But I agree - totally overrated, and the death penalty is just stupidly punitive.
It doesn't feel like I'm mastering anything - I'm running into a brick wall on *normal* Halls of Lightning (the lightning boss - I really have no idea how to approach that fight). I keep getting random heroics where I can't even take a single boss.
I think I need to finish gearing up on my rets so I get some better damage, but it's gonna be slow going until I can start at least clearing the randoms.
even after I got gear... i still don't even want to attempt that fight.
little hint when que'ing your randoms .. if you end in a crappy heroic or dungeon, change the dungeon by going to specific. (i like to choose normal Forge of Souls). take first boss down (dont pop wings til like 60-70% or u can get stuck in a loop n boss keeps healing, get the 20slot bag or some new pants and a triumph.
then que again =]
dungeons I found 'more' easy to start. (i have the same group as you.)
H - SoC. -&normal -don't forget to use Holy Wrath / Detect undead!
Violet Hold - both heroic and normal (heroic depends on what you get) -things happen fast can be stressful.
H Drak'Tharon -&normal -(u can skip bosses.. ezy.)
Gundrak -Watch out snake trash/2nd boss are the worst. (on 2nd boss pile up against the wall a little spread out so elemental doesnt fling everyone.)
Pit of Saron - if you beat last boss of Forge of Souls.. (take ur time on ick ....long time.)
Forge of Souls -First boss is cake if you got dps
Bloodcloud
04-29-2010, 11:11 AM
Lol
Woot! I went into FoS Normal and managed to kill the first boss. No good loot from him this time, but he drops 2 things I want (a tank weapon and some DPS leggings) and a badge so it's definitely a first step. I can repeat that endlessly, so that's good.
Downside: I absolutely can't even begin to put a dent in the Devourer of Souls - the instant it does Mirrored Soul I'm toast because of consecration. I can't even heal through it - I'm dead before the first flash of light can go off. Consecration is a huge part of my damage - but maybe if I don't use it I can *slowly* whittle him down?
On another note, I really want to do ToC, but vehicles simply won't work for me - I can't share targets, I can't follow, so I'm not sure how to handle the jousting portion. Is there some trick to getting vehicles to work with macros that I'm not in on? I really want to do ToC normal because there's some great stuff in there.
OzPhoenix
04-29-2010, 08:13 PM
On another note, I really want to do ToC, but vehicles simply won't work for me - I can't share targets, I can't follow, so I'm not sure how to handle the jousting portion. Is there some trick to getting vehicles to work with macros that I'm not in on? I really want to do ToC normal because there's some great stuff in there.
Jamba+Innerspace+ISBoxer makes this work.
Jamba+Innerspace+ISBoxer makes this work.
In your opinion, will this combo work well on a single computer that has modest to low-end specs?
Core 2 Duo 2.33, 4GB ram (XP, so only 3 useable), GTX260
I've been really thinking about doing this - I think the only thing that has me hesitating is the initial set-up geekery.
Edit: Just bought it, getting it set up now. So far so good...
OzPhoenix
04-30-2010, 12:13 AM
Kate,
There's a bit of a steep learning curve to IS/Boxer but well worth it in the end. About my only compliant with the product (and even then, only a mild one) is that the documentation is a little sparse, but only because you can just so do many good things with it.
Kate,
There's a bit of a steep learning curve to IS/Boxer but well worth it in the end. About my only compliant with the product (and even then, only a mild one) is that the documentation is a little sparse, but only because you can just so do many good things with it.
Steep just barely begins to describe it :) I bought it and I've been banging my head against the wall all night trying to get things to work. I have it and Jamba installed, but it's been extremely slow going trying to figure things out.
I figured out how to get vehicles to follow and to broadcast the keys I want! Woo!
Unfortunately, I still haven't figured out how to have it make whatever window is active the master in jamba and have everyone else follow that so I can do FTL. Slowly but surely I'll get this sorted.
I finally sorted out 90% of the is+isboxer stuff and I think it's working pretty well. The only problem I'm having now is that my computer has started freezing up at random if I use IS+Boxer, whereas before it wasn't having any problems running 5 instances of WoW at the same time.
Hopefully this'll be an easy fix - I have a post on the IS forms - so I can start making some progress past my fumbling attempts last night to get 5 toons blasting the crap out of jousting targets :D
Well, it's been a bit of time since I gave an update, and I'm pretty psyched at how things are going.
First, I got IS/Boxer & Jamba and those have been HUGE - way more convenient to do a lot of things, and just a lot more effective at sharing commands than AutoHotkey was. Maybe 15% of my keystrokes with AHK were not being transmitted, but with IS/Boxer it seems like they all are. Further, I'm able to make my slaves move out of fire and such now much more quickly and handle other extremely important survival deals. I want to say, if you box you really should pay the 36 bucks for a year's subscription - the time savings alone in not having to fuss as much with multiboxing has made it pay for itself.
Seriously - buy it. The time it takes me just to do my dailies has dropped from about 2.5 hours to a little over an hour and I can do some of the dailies that I couldn't do before because they required vehicles etc. If your time is worth anything it's a no brainer.
Second, I took the advice given here and spent a little time getting some basic 200 crafted gear. All of my retadins are using titansteel destroyers, everyone is wearing the crafted boots and helmets, and the tank has the shield. This has made a HUGE difference in survivability and DPS.
Third, I started using my head and taking advantage of some of the neat tricks that are viable with an all paladin team - DS/DS and the like. Not really making great strides here as I'm kind of still getting my feet wet, but I'm getting there.
What has all this yielded? Well, today I did my first clear of Heroic Utgarde Keep - an instance that just a week ago wound up killing me a dozen times before even getting to the final boss and then another dozen times on him - and it was easy. I also now have the first boss of the Forge of Souls down as an easy fight - he might heal once or twice during it, but I can burn him down so quick it's crazy (well, crazy quick for me :))
From a numbers standpoint, my retadins have increased their dps from an average of 1000-1100 with a peak (burning cooldowns, going crazy with DPS and not healing at all) of 1650 to doing an average of 1500-1650, with the peak output being a little over 2200, so that's pretty huge.
Now that I can farm the first FoS boss I can hopefully get an epic tanking weapon on the main - Lucky old Sun - and maybe some DPS plate or a tank belt from the trash if I get crazy lucky. In any case, I can get a guaranteed emblem each run, so I can slowly but surely gear everyone up with that stuff, too.
So, while I couldn't really see how I was going to get to the good stuff, now it looks like it'll take a while, but I'll be getting there! Woo woo! :)Thanks to all!
OzPhoenix
05-05-2010, 01:40 AM
Great to hear Kate!
Glad to see the suggestions you've gotten from everyone here have made a difference. I'm envious of where you are right now at the beginning of their gearing up (the funnest bit I reckon). My all-pally team has hit 58, so Azeroth is done, but I'm still a long way from there.
Did you end up running the tank-pally through seperately or have you avoided that unpleasant diversion?
Great to hear Kate!
Glad to see the suggestions you've gotten from everyone here have made a difference. I'm envious of where you are right now at the beginning of their gearing up (the funnest bit I reckon). My all-pally team has hit 58, so Azeroth is done, but I'm still a long way from there.
Did you end up running the tank-pally through seperately or have you avoided that unpleasant diversion?
I managed to avoid it - I was *close* to being able to beat some bosses, and improving the tools, improving the gear, and changing tactics slightly was enough to get me over the hump and I could avoid spending time with the denizens of my server.
58-68 goes REALLY quickly - for me it was less than a week's worth of lazy playing, so you're probably closer than you think :)
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