View Full Version : What's the first "real" test?
What do you all consider to be the first "real" test of a multi-boxing team?
For me, so far, I think it's been BRD, getting all the way to the Emperor and taking him out - being able to respond to gimmicks, having to selectively pick which opponents get hit (don't hit the princess!!), etc.
Fursphere
03-26-2010, 11:18 AM
Posting on this forum and not asking a question that has not been asked 30 times already. :)
Drizzit
03-26-2010, 12:14 PM
moving around Dalaran without losing any of your toons :P
Posting on this forum and not asking a question that has not been asked 30 times already. :)
Mea culpa maxima - I did a cursory look and didn't see this asked before.
Littleburst
03-26-2010, 12:58 PM
What do you all consider to be the first "real" test of a multi-boxing team?
For me, so far, I think it's been BRD, getting all the way to the Emperor and taking him out - being able to respond to gimmicks, having to selectively pick which opponents get hit (don't hit the princess!!), etc.
Ther isn't a real test. Most boxers are happy once they got their first HC cleared, you could maybe say clearing the 3 ICC HC's. But gear will always have a big influence.
Khatovar
03-26-2010, 01:01 PM
For me, so far, I think it's been BRD, getting all the way to the Emperor and taking him out.
That's not a test of multiboxing, that's a trial of patience. I do NOT miss the days of the 6 hour dungeon-crawl.
Ther isn't a real test. Most boxers are happy once they got their first HC cleared, you could maybe say clearing the 3 ICC HC's. But gear will always have a big influence.
My question was more about the test of the player's ability to manage their team - to be honest, I think doing certain low-level instances at or below the required level is much more challenging than most of the Heroic WOTLK dungeons.
For example, doing a full Wailing Caverns clear with a team of level 19s is much harder than doing Heroic Violet Hold with a team full of decently geared 80's. You don't have all your skills yet, the mobs can significantly outlevel you, etc. Certainly running heroics and eventually raiding is the end goal, but there are definitely some challenging things on the way. Suggesting that content that the vast majority of the playerbase will never see is the first "test" is a little overkill, IMO.
Ughmahedhurtz
03-26-2010, 01:18 PM
Posting on this forum and not asking a question that has not been asked 30 times already. :)
lol...so true. :p
Kate, to answer your question, that's different for everyone. As a first test, it might be completing an instance at level and without "twinked" gear for that level. Like, doing stratholme/scholomance/dire maul at 58 without having been to outlands yet.
As a more difficult test, it might be the 80 dungeons like Halls of Stone/Lightning, Utgarde Pinnacle, etc.
As an even more difficult test, it might be doing heroics in your crafted and AH gear.
As an even more difficult test, it might be getting 1500+ in arenas and/or winning BGs, primarily because people aren't predictable like bosses are, no matter how annoying the boss mechanics can seem.
Of course, the above difficulty ratings are purely subjective and vary wildly with the class makeup. Some do better in PVE than PVP. Some are stupidly easy in non-heroics and impossible in heroics.
So, really, the final answer is: It Depends(tm). What does it depend on? What gives you a sense of satisfaction. Some folks view anyone who hasn't run heroics or raids as scrubs/idiots/mouthbreathers. Some have the same condescending view of anyone that doesn't PVP. /shrug Bottom line is that none of this matters. All that matters is that you are enjoying yourself.
jinkobi
03-26-2010, 01:33 PM
Places where I got stopped stone cold or took much effort to get past.
Halls of Stone- Tribunal of Ages.
Azjol Nerub- boss 2
The ICC 5 man bosses, lol.
Svpernova09
03-26-2010, 02:23 PM
Pressing follow and having all toons follow you.
Pocalypse
03-26-2010, 02:26 PM
My question was more about the test of the player's ability to manage their team - to be honest, I think doing certain low-level instances at or below the required level is much more challenging than most of the Heroic WOTLK dungeons.
For example, doing a full Wailing Caverns clear with a team of level 19s is much harder than doing Heroic Violet Hold with a team full of decently geared 80's. You don't have all your skills yet, the mobs can significantly outlevel you, etc. Certainly running heroics and eventually raiding is the end goal, but there are definitely some challenging things on the way. Suggesting that content that the vast majority of the playerbase will never see is the first "test" is a little overkill, IMO.
I agree with this. Seeing how low you can be and still complete an instance is fun. I've recently started a new mixed team on a new server, so no heirlooms, and have found I can usually complete an instances when I'm 4 levels below the final boss' level.
Example BRD, I could finish at lvl 52, with the emperor lvl 56. I got all the way to magmus at lvl 50, but he was 56 and kept resisting my taunts :). DM East I could do at 54, with the final boss at 58.
I agree with this. Seeing how low you can be and still complete an instance is fun. I've recently started a new mixed team on a new server, so no heirlooms, and have found I can usually complete an instances when I'm 4 levels below the final boss' level.
Example BRD, I could finish at lvl 52, with the emperor lvl 56. I got all the way to magmus at lvl 50, but he was 56 and kept resisting my taunts :). DM East I could do at 54, with the final boss at 58.
I just this morning did my first "full" (as in, killing every boss, doing every gimmick) clear of BRD - I hit 54 on everyone by the time it was done and the quests were turned in. It took... a long time... not due to wipes as much as just wow, that instance is freaking HUGE!!
I'm kind of looking forward to 58 - then I can hit Outlands instances, and I want to try it with only classic gear. I'm expecting it to be a bloodbath, but it should be fun! :D
Fursphere
03-26-2010, 03:28 PM
Mea culpa maxima - I did a cursory look and didn't see this asked before.
My apologies - this was not directed at you. It was directed at all the mouth breathing retards out there that post the kind of shit I'm referring too.
You're doing just fine. :)
My apologies - this was not directed at you. It was directed at all the mouth breathing retards out there that post the kind of shit I'm referring too.
You're doing just fine. :)
Oh, cool :) I felt *ahem* fursecuted! :D
Speaking of tests, another one:
With my level 54s I just took down a level 60 (not a challenge there) who attacked - it was more the test of reacting quickly to an unexpected assault by someone and having it not turn into a complete wipe as I tried to figure out what was going on. Alliance rogue jumped out of nowhere and nearly killed one of my ret paladins, but between popping divine protection (to keep the one from dying) hammers to stun him, 5x consecration, judgments and 4x crusader strikes we took him out before the first consecration finished.
Generally I suck at PVP, because I don't expect it and never really did much of it for real - so it was nice to be able to handle that. Of course, had it been someone higher level than that we'd all be dead.
thefunk
03-26-2010, 05:10 PM
getting to the eye of naxx in strat with my 80 pally before my lvl 46's are introduced to the white man with wings. Always catches me out
Coltimar
03-26-2010, 09:34 PM
No excuses. There are barely 100,000 posts in this forum. No excuse for not having read most of them before posting.
lans83
03-27-2010, 02:34 AM
My first BRD clear with my Pally team. Then again with my DPriest+3 Hunter team. That one was much more trickier cause my bears couldn't hold the mobs in place. So I took on more mobs I intended to in the beginning. Taught me how to pull mobs better tho, especially the ones that where in tight corridors. Ran Sunken Temple with them at level and that was a pain without knowing exactly what to do (how to get to the last boss).
Moorea
03-27-2010, 03:50 PM
I think doing Deadmines (VC) at level is a good first test of your team
Mooni
03-28-2010, 01:58 AM
I like the question, because it's different and unique and special to everyone for different reasons.
HToC was it for me. One saturday morning, my best friend invited me and when I asked if I could bring an alt she said "Ummm... I don't think it's the kind of place you can box"
I remember going in, determined, coming out 5 hours later to do dailies because I couldn't afford the repair bill anymore, and 4 hours after that I said in guild chat, "People who say it can't be done will go out and prove themselves right.", just as the paladin stood alone over the Black Knight's body.
Nowadays, things like Garfrost etc, while they make me rage, are nothing compared to what I went through in ToC.
Gormand
03-28-2010, 07:20 PM
Cutting Teeth (http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=788)
Is always the first test :)
Ghallo
03-29-2010, 02:26 PM
My first team I did all content I could at-level. However, the first fight I ran into a wall on was the final boss of Ramparts. Every team is different, but at-level that boss gave me hours of struggle. I went there with my new team and downed him first try and didn't even slow down. The big change? Knowing how to really play my team. Seriously.
H:Nexus was also a big headache. I wipefested on the final boss too many times to count. This weekend I did it without anyone getting below 90% health (learning the timings/gimmicks is important).
I agree with other posters though - this is probably one of the more interesting threads.
And no offense, but old world content (even emperor, which I did underlevel as well) just isn't hard for boxing like BC and WotLK content is. Mostly because Blizz made just about every fight a movement nightmare. Underbog, for instance, when your healer is suddenly levitated and you're like "shoot-where's my heals?!" and then the chain lightning hits and you are staring at the floor on 5 screens at once and digging through the combat log to understand why...
Not that all bosses are that way. When H:UK comes up on random ... I think "Yay, free emblems!" All of the bosses were easy even from my first attempts.
Pocalypse
03-29-2010, 03:09 PM
My first team I did all content I could at-level. However, the first fight I ran into a wall on was the final boss of Ramparts. Every team is different, but at-level that boss gave me hours of struggle. I went there with my new team and downed him first try and didn't even slow down. The big change? Knowing how to really play my team. Seriously.
I completely agree with this. With my first team of Pala, 4xShamans I had a ton of trouble on this boss. Don't think I beat him until lvl 63 or so. My guys were all grouped up, and I barely knew how to move without messing other things up.
This time around, with my mixed team, I'm set up much much better, and know how to play. I got him down at 59 without any trouble.
My first team I did all content I could at-level. However, the first fight I ran into a wall on was the final boss of Ramparts. Every team is different, but at-level that boss gave me hours of struggle. I went there with my new team and downed him first try and didn't even slow down. The big change? Knowing how to really play my team. Seriously.
H:Nexus was also a big headache. I wipefested on the final boss too many times to count. This weekend I did it without anyone getting below 90% health (learning the timings/gimmicks is important).
I agree with other posters though - this is probably one of the more interesting threads.
And no offense, but old world content (even emperor, which I did underlevel as well) just isn't hard for boxing like BC and WotLK content is. Mostly because Blizz made just about every fight a movement nightmare. Underbog, for instance, when your healer is suddenly levitated and you're like "shoot-where's my heals?!" and then the chain lightning hits and you are staring at the floor on 5 screens at once and digging through the combat log to understand why...
Not that all bosses are that way. When H:UK comes up on random ... I think "Yay, free emblems!" All of the bosses were easy even from my first attempts.
You mention a couple of things that are really interesting to me - the idea of "really knowing how to play" a team.
For example, I just got my first 5-box team up to level 62 and if I had to do it all over again, I would be MUCH more efficient the next time - I spent a LOT of time doing stuff that I really didn't need to bother doing, a lot of time just figuring out effective ways to use skills, and a lot of time trying to do things the way I would have were I on a team of individuals rather than a multi-box team. Wipes I had during the learning process would now be avoided - even with new class composition - just because I've learned some of the differences between boxing and not boxing.
Another is the idea of the older encounters lending themselves more to boxing than the newer ones. In vanilla dungeons, it seems like a multi-box team will be MUCH more effective than a team of individuals because the multi-box team will be able to coordinate better and just power through. Expansion instances seem like they require a bit more individually different behavior, which is more of a challenge for a boxer.
When I was starting this I was trying to get at the idea of the first test a boxer faces - not the hardest stuff they'll ever do, but the first point at which a boxer will run into something that requires ingenuity to get through. So, while the initial instances aren't particularly hard, they can and do still require some level of ingenuity for a boxer to be able to handle them, and that, personally, is what I'm interested in. I'm really glad to see some of the responses - it's interesting to think about!
I completely agree with this. With my first team of Pala, 4xShamans I had a ton of trouble on this boss. Don't think I beat him until lvl 63 or so. My guys were all grouped up, and I barely knew how to move without messing other things up.
This time around, with my mixed team, I'm set up much much better, and know how to play. I got him down at 59 without any trouble.
What is your strategy? I can take him down with my 5x paladin group, but I don't bother scattering - I just DPS him until we're almost dead, bubble & heal, and then mix DPS and healing until he's dead. I'm thinking the way I'll handle it with a less robust team is to just map my arrow keys to also move my slaves rather than have them /follow or something. I predict fire and not standing it it will be one of the rougher things for me to figure out a solution to.
Gormand
03-29-2010, 07:19 PM
What is your strategy? I can take him down with my 5x paladin group, but I don't bother scattering - I just DPS him until we're almost dead, bubble & heal, and then mix DPS and healing until he's dead. I'm thinking the way I'll handle it with a less robust team is to just map my arrow keys to also move my slaves rather than have them /follow or something. I predict fire and not standing it it will be one of the rougher things for me to figure out a solution to.
Ranged classes can cheat apparently (I find out after I kill the guy) But this fight is really all about movement, and a melee team is going to have to be a little more careful.
The trick is to keep everyone moving to avoid the fires on the ground while keeping up the healing on the tank. I think my group wiped on this guy for ages and when I did get him down I only just made it (Tank died DPS killed him before he got to them).
I imagine as melee the hardest bit is when the dragon first comes down, as he tends to run at you and flame breath which was 1 shotting my healer + DPS. Once you have that down as long as you strafe a bit every few seconds, spam heals and keep threat you should be ok. But I dont really like the idea of doing it all melee as a boxer :P
I think I could do it a lot better now as well, I would ensure I have a spamming heal macro for the fight, ensure I strafe more etc etc.
Ghallo
03-29-2010, 07:48 PM
Solution 1 was touched on "spam a heal button" - having your DPS macro correctly time out heals to your tank gives you the freedom to worry about movement a little more.
You make a great point about "learning as a boxer" vs learning as individuals. However, understanding class mechanics can be both good and bad. My first attempts on this boss I had 2 mages on my team and thought "Fire Ward!!!!!". Made a custom mapping etc for it and thought that would win the day. It "kinda" worked. But it didn't resolve the ultimate issue which was team movement.
I litterally bought a $300 xkeys keyboard just so I could map each toon to their own set of movement keys - and just because of that 1 fight.
Of course, now that I have that all setup... it helps all over the place :)
Super made a great comment: First challenge is getting your team to /follow you and kill the fist monster. Everything is very easy after that!
Hardest challenge I have faced? Vehicle fights. I still can't really do them. Maybe I'll get better - but for now Occ is a wipefest and I can't even do normal ToC. The final boss for Drak is easy only because my toons are overgeared and it isn't really that hard.
Most rewarding challenge I have faced? Love is in the Air 3 bosses. Very tricky to learn, but it taught me a TON about situational awareness. Learning that raised my game.
Hardest challenge I have faced? Vehicle fights. I still can't really do them. Maybe I'll get better - but for now Occ is a wipefest and I can't even do normal ToC. The final boss for Drak is easy only because my toons are overgeared and it isn't really that hard.
I am a little excited and a little nervous for when I get to jousting - from what I have seen, it is actually pretty easy to do for some set ups... Get everyone into a corner and targeting the same person, spam shield breaker and thrust/jab/whatever that is, and people die quickly. At least, I *hope* that will work!
Interesting comments and ideas!
Pocalypse
03-30-2010, 12:23 PM
What is your strategy? I can take him down with my 5x paladin group, but I don't bother scattering - I just DPS him until we're almost dead, bubble & heal, and then mix DPS and healing until he's dead. I'm thinking the way I'll handle it with a less robust team is to just map my arrow keys to also move my slaves rather than have them /follow or something. I predict fire and not standing it it will be one of the rougher things for me to figure out a solution to.
I just spread them out, then I have keys that only move my alts. Whenever more than one of them is standing in flames I move all 4. Hardest thing was actually noticing when my tank was standing in flames and moving him.
I just - finally - cleared my first WotLK dungeon with my 5 paladin team. I did Utgarde as my "daily wrath dungeon" and got a couple of badges (huzzah).
I was easily able to do everyone up to Ingvar, but his undead form - that shout of his - was doing me in. I wiped on him maybe half a dozen times before giving up, and then today I went back and took him down. I guess I managed to get enough good plate gear from the Nexus quests (blue tanking gloves, shoulders and boots) that I was able to get through the shouts and DPS him down quickly enough.
What's interesting to me about WotLK dungeons is that they are either brick walls or I completely coast through them once I get a slight increase in gear or level. At 69, Utgarde was virtually impossible, while at 70 it became trivial to get all the way to the last boss. Same with Nexus and Azoj Nerub - I went in and died nearly immediately to the first/second set of mobs when level 69, but at 70 I was able to take out everyone up to the last boss. I'm 99% sure I could take the dragon out in Nexus now, too, but I haven't felt like going back. For Anub, I know it's going to be a couple of levels & some more gear.
Ediit: VVV The guy does two things - the smashes, which are easy to avoid (I just have my rets stand behind him, tank in front and run through him when he begins to cast), but the shouts hit everyone regardless. In the undead phase they also have a silence attached and do like 3-4k damage - by the time I can start casting to heal again, he's casting another in some cases. It's just tricky, but I can do it now about 50% of the time.
Maxion
04-05-2010, 01:25 AM
The level difference makes a big difference at some points.
As for the shouts, try moving behind him when he casts it, i think that should soften the blow on some of them.
Gramzngunz
04-05-2010, 09:53 AM
lol, what my first "real" test was the test of humility once I got to 80 and started pvping in quest greens. Damn you warrior spinny move that kills all my guys with 17hp and 0 resil. in like 4 ticks!! Hearing everyone in the BG complain about you/make fun of you/call you really really really mean names can kinda take its toll after a while of grinding honor. Once you get geared and can pull your weight better those die down though.(but never go away forever....lol)
Gonna throw out another "test" moment:
Before taking up multi-boxing I hadn't done quite a few of the WotLK dungeons before, not even once, as a soloist - I think I actually never set foot in at least half of the dungeons.
So,now that my paladin brigade is 75 and able to hit all the dungeons in WotLK except for the level 80 ones, I'm running into "new" things that I've never faced before, and what I'm really happy about is that not only am I surviving them, but actually doing full clears without wiping, and almost always without even having a single character die during any of the fights that are new to me. I'm not reading strategies or anything either, just adapting on the fly.
Anyway, either the dungeons are getting MUCH easier, or I am getting better at multi-boxing. I really can't wait until I can do my first heroic.
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