LFG tool and 5-boxing Paladins

[kate]

I decided that, since my RAF benefits ran out, I would try to use the new LFG tool entirely to level 5x paladins and see how that worked out.

So far it's pretty nifty - I've gotten my little team up to level 51. One is Protection spec, the other 4 are Retribution, and it's just seriously insane - the only time any of my characters dies is when I make a mistake with targeting and send one running off to who-knows-where and don't catch it, or I'm not paying attention. The 4x instant Flash of Light + Sheathe of Light makes sure my tank is up, and everything just drops dead very quickly. Right now the team is working through BRD - we can do most of it, but I'm waiting until we hit 52 to try clearing it entirely.

What it isn't is quick. We kill extremely quickly, but because I'm stopping to loot (I mostly loot with my leader and have the loot filter addon to drop anything that's not worth more than 50 silver, or a trade good, or a green+ item) but things have slowed down a bit since about level 48.

So, here is the set up I'm using, and I'd really love it if anyone had some ideas or suggestions for tweaks!!

Protection Paladin - leader. Button 1 is Avenger's Shield, 2 is Judgement of Justice, 3 is Consecration.
4x Retribution Paladins - 1 Is Judgement of Wisdom or Light (2x of each), 2 is a macro of /castrandom [target=focustarget] Judgement of Wisdom/light, Crusader Strike and 3 is Consecration

I have 3 healing hotkeys set up - one key will have all Retribution Paladins heal my tank, another will have them heal themselves, and the third will heal whatever my tank's target is.

I'm using AutoHotKey and just sending about 20 different keys (numbers, numpad, a couple of others)

So, to start off a fight, I have the Tank use Avenger's Shield, we run into the pull, and I spam 2 & 3 until everything is dead (which is usually extremely quickly - a pull of 5 mobs in BRD maybe needs to have Consecration refreshed 1x, so maybe 8-10 seconds per pull of 5).

With my tank I'm avoiding the 9696 thing right now because I don't have all the requisite skills and also because it seems kind of pointless since things are dead so quickly - I'm sure this will change, but even on boss fights, right now it's just not an issue.

We are survivable - I've accidentally pulled 3-4 spawns (so about 20 mobs) when sloppy and usually won't lose anyone in that kind of situation, DEFINITELY not a wipe. With the Retribution Paladins, once we get Divine Storm it should be even more insane. And, we don't run out of mana unless there is one of those huge pulls, and even then I've finished those kinds of things with nearly full mana.

Because they're all melee fighters, I don't have to worry about standing in the fire during fights that involve that kind of thing - I run around in circles with my tank and have everyone follow along, whacking at the boss.

But can it be better? I'm thinking of maybe swapping out one of the Retribution Paladins for an Enhancement Shaman - totems, wipe protection, etc. I'm also thinking of supplementing dungeon runs with non-dungeon quests, but it just feels wrong to do it that way since we've done pretty much nothing but dungeons and dungeon related quests since level 12...

Anyway, any suggestions?

[Khatovar]

/castrandom is not a very good way to go about things anymore. It will stick if it calls a spell that is not able to cast for whatever reason, it no longer ignores it and moves on. Meaning it can now sit there casting nothing but judgement. Use a castsequence.

From my point of view, it's hard to go wrong with a shaman. Totems make a lot of things a lot easier and you can only stack paladin buffs so high. And gearing will be a little easier since you'll have someone who gears out of chain instead of everyone needing plate.

[kate]

/castrandom is not a very good way to go about things anymore. It will stick if it calls a spell that is not able to cast for whatever reason, it no longer ignores it and moves on. Meaning it can now sit there casting nothing but judgement. Use a castsequence.



Are you sure? Because castrandom really seems to be working exactly as expected - not hanging at all. The problem I have with castsequence is that it absolutely does hang all the time and I can't do anything for multiple seconds while I wait for a cooldown etc.

I ran some tests in game earlier tonight and castrandom absolutely wasn't hanging, despite cooldowns.

And with the Shaman, yes - there's only 4 buff spots for Paladin buffs, and the missing aura can easily be replaced by a totem. I think I'll add one in later.

[Khatovar]

As of 3.2 it no longer works to pick whatever is available. You've only got 2 spells in your setup, you may not even notice it yet, but you will.


wowwiki (http://www.wowwiki.com/MACRO_castrandom)

Since 3.2, /castrandom selects one spell from the list on first use and tries to cast it until it is successfully cast. It cannot be used anymore to create "use first ready spell" macros.

Discussion here
http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?t=23152

Edit - a properly configured castsequence or click macro should not have problems with hanging.

[Ualaa]

I would recommend once your team reaches 55th, seriously consider replacing the Paladin tank with a Death Knight.

The DK + 4x Ret, is a rather strong team for both PvE and PvP.
A Prot Pally is probably a better tank.
But the DK brings a lot of PvE buffs to the team, such as Horn of Winter (damage) and Icy Talons (haste).
And if you decide to PvP, Death Grip and the Ice Snare are both quite good.

Between four pallies, you're not losing much buff wise, from trading the 5th for a DK.
And it is probably the top melee composition for both PvE and PvP.
Worth taking a look into anyway.



A castrandom can get stuck, although it might not always.
If you only include instant abilities, as in no cooldown/refresh, then it cannot get stuck.
But if Judgements are every 10 seconds, Consecrate every 8 seconds etc.
It can get stuck on these, and will hang (nothing happen) until the spell comes off of cooldown.

The old behavior, was for a spell on cooldown to not fire off.
But the next push to call a different (well at least another) random choice.
And if you were to spam the key, you'd get different abilities firing off.

Unfortunately that is not the case.

For the Pally, if you are tanking, take a look at the 96969 rotation.
You won't have all of the tools for it, until you are 75th.
But it has the basic spells you'll want to use.

[kate]

If you guys say it doesn't work, then I'll believe it - maybe I'm just getting lucky so far? So, now I'm switching over to some castsequence macros.

Since I'm using a homogeneous group - all the DPS has the same spells, all characters share the same GCD times - I'm not sure what the benefit of a click macro over just a castsequence macro would be. For my tank, I know that once I get all the abilities for 96969 I'll be at the limit of what I can cast, With the DPS it's a reasonably full cycle too, if I write it correctly. I'll use one of the macro extension addons to make sure I have the space for the long macros, of course.

Eventually I plan on having one of every class on each account, so there will at some point be a DK+4Ret possibility, or 5 Shaman or anything like that. I'm going with the Paladin tank right now because they are so incredibly easy to tank with and I want to get to 80 & farm up badges for heirlooms before I start any new characters. The only reason I was considering a shaman before that would be for the reincarnation - but really, complete wipes are so rare right now that I can't see the time involved in getting it to level to be worth it just yet.

Thank you all for the replies - good things to know and think about!

[Boylston]

I'd also seriously recommending ditching the 5th pally around L55 and grabbing a DK. There will be an adjustment curve, but it's worth it for both PvP and PvE. The hybrid blood/frost spec that allows you to get both Melee Haste (like Windfury Totem), Str/Agi buff (like Strength of Earth totem), and the 10% Attack Power buff (like TSA) is awesome for augmenting the team. DKs are a little squishier, but not much. I've never had a problem keeping mine alive in heroics, even at crummy gear levels.

The Cadillac of healing setups is to use a mouse-clicking-healbot addon (I use VuhDo, personally) and a software multiboxing setup that allows you to have a repeater region to use that addon on all the pallies at once. You can cleanse and heal who you need directly this way without taking up key slots. That said, I still have a "everyone heals themselves" button as well as "everyone heals the tank" button setup.

Keep at it. It's a fun team...

[Dezeral]

Since I'm using a homogeneous group - all the DPS has the same spells, all characters share the same GCD times - I'm not sure what the benefit of a click macro over just a castsequence macro would be.

For retribution paladins, you will have abilities with cooldowns that do not "sync" up. You will reach a point where you can no longer fit everything into a castsequence macro. Crusader strike has a 4 second cooldown, judgements are 8 seconds, divine storm is 10sec, and exorcism is 15 seconds. Even if you could write an unlimited castsequence, you can see right away that the cooldowns do not line up very well. This is where a click macro far outstrips a castsequence macro. You can basically simulate manually firing each ability when it's cooldown expires.

[jrkilroy]

Noob Question: How do you use the LFG tool while multiboxing? Do all 5 of your toons end up in the same group?

[Khatovar]

Noob Question: How do you use the LFG tool while multiboxing? Do all 5 of your toons end up in the same group?

1. Create your group
2. Open the dungeon finder tool on your main.
3. Either select a specific dungeon or the random on your main.
3b. The first time you use the dungeon finder, you need to select roles.
4. create and use the following macro on your toons


/click LFDRoleCheckPopupAcceptButton
/click LFDDungeonReadyDialogEnterDungeonButton

5. To leave, use the following macro:


/run LFGTeleport(IsInLFGDungeon())

[Ualaa]

Nice macros, Khatovar.
I've just been mouse broadcasting, to click the accept button, or to click the mini-map button to teleport out.

[kate]

Nice macros, Khatovar.
I've just been mouse broadcasting, to click the accept button, or to click the mini-map button to teleport out.

WONDERFUL macros, even! I haven't even been mouse broadcasting - this will save me a bit of hassle :) Thanks!

Also: I dumped the castrandom and set up some click macros - they aren't working quite as I want, but I'm getting there with them. Thanks again for the info on why they're superior.

[Shodokan]

Curious what your 3rd heal macro is (the heal tank's target one)

something like

/assist focus
/cast heal of light
/targetlasthostile (i forget if this is a real command or not)

or what?

[kate]

Curious what your 3rd heal macro is (the heal tank's target one)

something like

/assist focus
/cast heal of light
/targetlasthostile (i forget if this is a real command or not)

or what?

It's:

#showtooltip
/cast [target=focustarget] Flash of Light

No need for changing targets or anything like that. Tank is the focus for all slaves since I'm not using the FTL system yet. With this macro I can just pick the group member I want to target on my tank, hit the macro key, and then have the tank shift back to the primary target.

[Shodokan]

It's:

#showtooltip
/cast [target=focustarget] Flash of Light

No need for changing targets or anything like that. Tank is the focus for all slaves since I'm not using the FTL system yet. With this macro I can just pick the group member I want to target on my tank, hit the macro key, and then have the tank shift back to the primary target.

thank you very much

[methodical13]

Nice I didnt think you could add your whole group. This is going to save me so much time now.

[alcattle]

That is also how chain heriocs works. I did one and clicked the LFD and it said join as group? Still 1-2 people had not dropped group and some how I was leader.

[kate]

An update!

I got the paladins up to level 62 over the weekend (yay for crappy weather :p) and in the process managed to clear the remaining classic instances EXCEPT for lower blackrock spire and dire maul east (those two have not come up in my random dungeon thing, so I will probably just run them from the specific dungeon tool)

The only challenge was Ramparts, specifically Nazan - it's pretty hard getting out of the fire in time since I'm not using something to broadcast movement keys (just using /follow which takes a long time to start moving, relatively speaking). However, a few tries and I managed to sort it out - tank and spank with a bubble and group healing in the middle, and usually he'll be pretty close to, if not actually, dead before I am. I think I definitely need to figure out how to bind up and down keystrokes in AutoHotKey so I can have emergency MOVE buttons for my team.

Everything else was ridiculously easy. I got Stratholme before I had gotten any Outlands gear, but 5 paladins vs. waves of undead.... It isn't exactly fair. Same for Scholomance - but that's usually very easy anyway. It leaves me wondering if they recently nerfed those dungeons or something because really, I can't understand how pugs could wipe in those instances unless they were REALLY bad. Even in just vanilla gear I managed to do the timed Baron fight in less than 20 minutes.

I'm definitely putting the DK and/or Shaman replacement on the back-burner until I get to heroics with this group - it's really just too much fun!