DK's as a pvp team

[Mosg2]

With the changes to Unholy Blight making diseases on the target undispellable, how does everyone think a 4x DK plus maybe Shaman would fair as a team? In BG's I'm sure you'd dominate as most boxers do. I'm not sure about arenas but undispellable diseases plus 4x Death Grip and all the snares would make it impossible to be kited. Impossible.

[Mokoi]

how would you kill anyone without full Wrathful though? lol JK

Paladins work well because of their burst, which DK's do not share right now. I'd be curious to see any DK teams with gear and how they are doing, but I doubt as well as paladins just for the lack of heals.

Rune tap is an amazing heal every 30s though, but no single target heals which sometimes you need.

Maybe 4 DKs and a separate healer?

[Mosg2]

That's kind of what I was thinking, but can 4 DK's put enough pressure on someone without MS to kill them? For a BG team it sounds fun at least.

[Zugdud]

I'm just speculating here, but i'd say you could do alright with good management of your interrupts, cc, and strangulates. Also depending on how you spec them, 4x corpse explosion cast on ghoul pets would be some pretty insane burst

[asonimie]

They are a blast in pvp. Not everything has to be for arenas.

[Mokoi]

absolutely, i have 4 DKs and they are a blast and a half!!, but so are 4-5 of pretty much any class :P

4 priests are hilarious in PvP, but when you want more than just fun, you need to talk serious, and I think that's what the OP wanted maybe?

[Mosg2]

I think that with Cataclysm there are going to be no "rated" BG matches. I think you're just going to get graded off of how many matches you do, how many matches you leave before they're finished, your total HK's, your healing/damage done etc.

So I'm more thinking about a strong BG team.

[Mokoi]

Yeah, fair enough, but with rated BGs, they will become far more competitive as well.

In BGs though, the 30s heal is nice, since you have time to actually use it a lot, unlike arenas which you woudl get one use and then be dead lol.

[Fat Tire]

Yeah, fair enough, but with rated BGs, they will become far more competitive as well.

In BGs though, the 30s heal is nice, since you have time to actually use it a lot, unlike arenas which you woudl get one use and then be dead lol.


Ya 6 rated bg games a week. They are going to limit the amount of rated BGs a week you can play. Blizzard doesnt want to totally kill off arenas. ;p

[Mosg2]

Ya 6 rated bg games a week. They are going to limit the amount of rated BGs a week you can play. Blizzard doesnt want to totally kill off arenas. ;p

I'm not so sure about that. I really think it's going to be more of a relaxed thing where you just get rated on your performance in individual BG's and then use honor to buy gear.

[Fat Tire]

I'm not so sure about that. I really think it's going to be more of a relaxed thing where you just get rated on your performance in individual BG's and then use honor to buy gear.

You could very well be right. I know alot of "soloist" BG players are really pushing for this type of rated pvp. One thing I will say is that they couldnt allow equal rewards to arena because the solo rated bg player rating could be so easily abused. /shrug

[Mosg2]

Well, I think that the standards are going to be high :) You'd need something like a 75% win ratio or something similar to get the best gear.

They've said many times that they feel like they failed with arena implementation, so...

[Ualaa]

Well, assuming they go with the same starting rating (individual rating) as arena for players.
And maybe average the personal rating for each side to get an overall team rating.

And then go with the same amount of change to the rating, based on the arena system again.
Where a stronger side will gain a smaller amount on a win and lose a larger amount on a loss.
But chances are, they cap the maximum you can gain or lose.

What win percentage do you need for Arena play, to reach 1800 or 2200?
If you need the same ratio of wins to losses in battlegrounds, that might actually be harder to reach.

In Arena, you control the entire team, in battlegrounds (which will be 10, 15 or 25 man) you control at most half of the field; while a solo player can be up to 4% to 10% of the team.

I could see them going with, battlegrounds are only rated if you choose the random BG.
In which case, every BG gets used instead of having 90% of the player base only doing say AV.

Rating is a cap on what you can buy... As are arena points.
If a given rating gets you as many points each week, it will take the same amount of time to gear up in arena gear.
Basically something like points each week based on your highest rating from each category... BG's, 5's, 3's or 2's.

However battlegrounds will also award honor, for older/lesser gear.
Not sure how they'd balance that with arena, or even if they would.

[Teknetron]

I had done some testing the past few days on the PTR to find the optimal group for me. I tested 4 groups of which some were the cookie cutter teams (dk+4 rets for example).

I just moved to the Legion of Booms server, so was trying to find a group that would do well with BG's / Arena and PVE content.
Something that would keep me interested, so I would not mind the level grind again, as I already have a paladin + 4 shamans, and a mixed group on my old server.

I had been playing with 5 dk's which was awesome in BG's, but their survival rate was still too low. I was unable to kill the whole team in WG without losing a guy (they were all specced blood / frost).

So to the PTR I went, and I came out with 4 DK's + 1 Priest.
I had a 60 priest on my old server that I just transffered over last night and rolled 4 new DK's.

So far in WG my highest was around 120 kills on the 4 DK's, over 80k healing on my priest (with grid I can heal everyone in the raid), and 0 deaths.
My lowest so far has been around 50 kills with 1 death, which was a slow match with horde hiding a lot.

I dont think I have had more than 1 death from a guy yet in WG.
The main point though, is that I can rush their whole team and live through it killing everyone :)

My Priest is deep Disc.
1 DK is Unholy
3 DK's are Frost

I may switch the 3 Frost DK's back to Unholy, I'm not sure yet.
I have run BG's with both builds now and their so close to each other it's hard to make a decision.

I lead with the Priest for PVP, and the Unholy DK for PVE.

Anyway, if anyone would like some more info on this group just let me know. Besides killing everything, the main point is it's fun as hell.

I want to make a movie, but I run all 5 instances on one computer. An I7 extreme, SLI with video settings all on midway for each client.
Just not sure how fraps will do. I always remember it being a lag monster.

Anyone know of a better recorder?
Sorry for any run-on sentences or misspelled words... I'm very tired and going to take a nap now.

[Mosg2]

How do you deal with not having HoF, Bubbles, etc? 4x DG is pretty hot but the loss of those seems bad.

[Shodokan]

How do you deal with not having HoF, Bubbles, etc? 4x DG is pretty hot but the loss of those seems bad.

Fear ward

[Teknetron]

Well the priest puts fear ward on himself.
They are also all human so I have the fear removal racial.

There were a couple times that I had to use my racial and then got feared again. It only takes a couple of seconds to dispel on each character using grid.

This is not viable for arena, but luckily the priest gets mass dispell (I'm only 60 now).
As far as bubbles go the closest I have is power word: shield, which is remarkable. With the priest specced deep disc. I have no cooldown so I can shield the whole team really quick. It also heals for a % of the damage done to the shield and causes damage to the attacker as well.

I have only had to use flash heal a few times, as shield + renew has been sufficient.

[Ualaa]

If you're quick, Fear Ward on the Priest.
And Mass Dispel to negate fear.
Plus you have trinkets.

Not sure if Blood is enough passive healing.
Compared to Divine Storm and Judgement of Light.
But a real healer option, adds a ton I'm sure.
Of course, the priest will be focused as well -- not sure their survivability.

[Shodokan]

If you're quick, Fear Ward on the Priest.
And Mass Dispel to negate fear.
Plus you have trinkets.

Not sure if Blood is enough passive healing.
Compared to Divine Storm and Judgement of Light.
But a real healer option, adds a ton I'm sure.
Of course, the priest will be focused as well -- not sure their survivability.

Priests with HIGH resil are such a bitch to kill... unless its like 5 on 1 with MS.

[Mokoi]

Yeah, DK's sound great, but I'll be honest. I have DKs at 80, and they are lackluster in any setting with a good healers and a DPS who can absorb DMG.

One thing about rated BGs, they will not be the complete steamroll that BGs are now, with people in blues on one side and you in purples on the other. Groups with zero communication and zero organization. Rated means rated. players with zero skill are worth zero points.

I also assume that while tougher, BGs will not be the hell that arenas have become with extremely organized and specialized teams out there, but still some level of competition above and beyond what we see in regular BG land.

This taken into account, I just think that a burst team like paladins will outshine any DK team (barring significant advances in DK dmg) in BGs. HPs are going up, waaay up and that means healing will be easier for the most part, and in some cases just more predictable. Good healers will be pulled in to do their job, unlike in BGs now.

"/2 RATED BGs group LFM 7k GS 2200 arena exp req, PST for trials"

expect to see this, and expect to see them in the games with and against you, this is the future.

In this future, you can not expect that a team which works well in current BGs to be as viable, and the only good indicator is what is viable in arenas today, which nobody has yet proved DK's to be.

Of course I could be just expecting the worst, and BGs will continue on being a bit of a steamroll, but if they do we have nothing to worry about. 5 mage teams gogo!

=)

[Mosg2]

Haha Mokoi, well put.

I personally think that rated BG's will be just like today's BG's where you just que up for games and go. I think it's going to basically be where you get a performance score on how you did in a BG :) If they keep the BG's roughly like they are now, then you won't be able to fully premade the games--And I like that. I guess we'll see.

[Fat Tire]

Haha Mokoi, well put.

I personally think that rated BG's will be just like today's BG's where you just que up for games and go. I think it's going to basically be where you get a performance score on how you did in a BG :) If they keep the BG's roughly like they are now, then you won't be able to fully premade the games--And I like that. I guess we'll see.


While the single queuing system would probably save the BGs. They have said they are going to limit the amount a games towards rating with 6 games being the limit. Even then the amount of AFKing/botting is still going to be insane. I really have no idea how it will work and there hasnt been alot of info released about it. one of the only quotes I can find that is semi recent is...


- allows player to earn Arena points through Arena or BGs; no punishment for losing, but points via BGs may be capped at 6 or so per week; required to join as a group, but not one dedicated like Arenas
- may be awarded special epic ground mounts

[Mosg2]

They just don't want it to be a grind. I think that what will happen is after every BG you're going to gain or lose rating based off of your performance in that BG. Considering all the data they log already from them it wouldn't be a stretch to add a few more and then call it good.

I just don't see them saying "You can do AB whenever you want. But you can only que for rated AB matches X number of times a week." They obviously don't have a problem with slowly grinding rating (Look at all of the top 5's teams after they hit 2200) so it stands to reason they wouldn't have a problem with your rating quickly fluctuating to where they determine your skill to be at and then slowly going up/down as you get better/worse.

/shrug

Edit: On topic:

I really think most teams will do well in rated BG's. As long as you've got some healing to back you up most boxers can steamroll equal sized groups or less.

As an aside that's the thing I like most about my DK/Rets: I can chainsaw through 15 people if they're uncoordinated. Shamans? Not so much :)

[Mokoi]

I can chainsaw through 15 people much faster on my paladins than my DKs and that's even considering equal gear when I had it on my paladins.

I know this isn't a DK vs. Pally team thread, but that's what I see in it, when I see Melee team discussions, because when choosing a team you are also deciding it is either A. more fun or B. better than another option.

They may indeed be more fun, but then again if it's fun you want play whatever you like and there need be no discussion on the matter. If however it is efficiency and raw power, I believe firmly that Paladins outshine DKs in their current incarnation. Who knows about the future.

[Ualaa]

I've read, AV will be changed from a 40 man to a 25 man.

And that we will be able to queue as a team of 5, for any BG.
Or we can single queue, but you cannot guarantee you'll get into the same BG as others in groups larger then 5 toons.

[Mosg2]

@Ualaa
That sounds about right. I have been really hoping it wouldn't be full 15 person premades vs other premades--It's too hard to find 4 other skilled/geared/available people for 5's now even.

@Mokoi
I was just commenting on the difference between the melee teams and the caster teams. I do agree that currently it doesn't get better than the DK/Rets as a pure melee team. The healing, cleanses, HoF's, bubbles, plate etc make it a no brainer... Though I was talking to Void last night and he said there's a guy running Warrior, DK, Enhance Shaman, Paladin solo with a separate Priest healer who's in the 1800's :) That kind of mixed team seems like it has a huge learning curve but pretty cool nonetheless.

[Firstcow]

@Ualaa
That sounds about right. I have been really hoping it wouldn't be full 15 person premades vs other premades--It's too hard to find 4 other skilled/geared/available people for 5's now even.

@Mokoi
I was just commenting on the difference between the melee teams and the caster teams. I do agree that currently it doesn't get better than the DK/Rets as a pure melee team. The healing, cleanses, HoF's, bubbles, plate etc make it a no brainer... Though I was talking to Void last night and he said there's a guy running Warrior, DK, Enhance Shaman, Paladin solo with a separate Priest healer who's in the 1800's :) That kind of mixed team seems like it has a huge learning curve but pretty cool nonetheless.

Who's this guy? Do you have link to his team?
Also, I've been thinking to add a warrior to my DK+rets, so DK+3 rets+war, for mortal strike, hamstring, fear bomb, bladestorm etc.
The war doesn't have as much burst as pally but once he gets enough rage he can do some serious shit.

[asonimie]

Who's this guy? Do you have link to his team?
Also, I've been thinking to add a warrior to my DK+rets, so DK+3 rets+war, for mortal strike, hamstring, fear bomb, bladestorm etc.
The war doesn't have as much burst as pally but once he gets enough rage he can do some serious shit.

Yes I have been thinking this is the winning combo as well. +700 AP is nice too. I just dont think I have the energy to level anything again... even tho my warrior is 77.

[Fat Tire]

Who's this guy? Do you have link to his team?
Also, I've been thinking to add a warrior to my DK+rets, so DK+3 rets+war, for mortal strike, hamstring, fear bomb, bladestorm etc.
The war doesn't have as much burst as pally but once he gets enough rage he can do some serious shit.

Our very own Zugdud.


http://www.wowarmory.com/team-info.xml?r=Earthen+Ring&ts=5&t=Bonjour+Madame&select=Bonjour+Madame

[Firstcow]

Our very own Zugdud.


http://www.wowarmory.com/team-info.xml?r=Earthen+Ring&ts=5&t=Bonjour+Madame&select=Bonjour+Madame

I find it weird that his warrior is in tanking gear. I suppose he has a pvp set too for arena or he playing prot in arena?

[Shodokan]

I find it weird that his warrior is in tanking gear. I suppose he has a pvp set too for arena or he playing prot in arena?

The spec he has would not do the best for a prof arena spec. Also bladestorm is too much to give up.

Blade storm + wolves + gargoyle + wings is kinda scary. Not so much next patch with warriors getting the nerf bat.

[Zugdud]

I find it weird that his warrior is in tanking gear. I suppose he has a pvp set too for arena or he playing prot in arena?

Yeah armory probably caught him in his PVE tanking gear. In the arenas I've only tried playing the warrior as arms so far, his primary spec is what I use ((I use some PVE loot in arenas as well, so I have about 1000 res and 50% ArP in my PVP set)). For PVE Shenanigans and AV I run him as prot spec ((hes the tank for my team)). Last night I was just farming some ICC10 rep with team Sina, good times! :D:D

[heyaz]

how the hell
3 bryntrolls

gdkp I guess and outbid anyone?

[Shodokan]

how the hell
3 bryntrolls

gdkp I guess and outbid anyone?

bryntroll only goes for 2k on my server (in gdkp runs)

[Zugdud]

how the hell
3 bryntrolls

gdkp I guess and outbid anyone?

Yeah the 3 Bryntrolls, along with all my other ICC25 loot, was obtained through attending 4 different ICC25 GDKP runs ((had a drop on all but 1 run)). There are definitly some neat toys in ICC for arena use depending on what kind of team your running, personally I would love to get Sindragosa's Flawless Fang on my warrior, shaman, and paladin in place of battlemaster's but so far none of the runs I have been a part of have been able to get past rotface/festergut

[Zugdud]

how the hell
3 bryntrolls

gdkp I guess and outbid anyone?

Yeah the 3 Bryntrolls, along with all my other ICC25 loot, was obtained through attending 4 different ICC25 GDKP runs ((had a drop on all but 1 run)). There are definitly some neat toys in ICC for arena use depending on what kind of team your running, personally I would love to get Sindragosa's Flawless Fang on my warrior, shaman, and paladin in place of battlemaster's but so far none of the runs I have been a part of have been able to get past rotface/festergut