Viability of Shamans stacking haste for PvP?

[Stealthy]

Hi guys,

With the upcoming changes to Flame Shock (will be able to crit and affected by haste), and the fact we can get quite high levels of haste in PvP gear now - is there a point where it would it be worth stacking haste?

My gut feeling is 'no' - since our backup nuke (LB / CL + Frost Shock) still relies on crit for burst damage...

But I guess what I'm trying to get at is - would it be possible to get to a high enough haste rating to create a kind of 'sustained' burst?

Cheers,
S.

[Mokoi]

I guess you would have to find out what the minimum level of spell power you would need to really make this work, but with enough of it, say full relentless and 251+ weapons, you would have enough DPS to out DPS any healers.

But for PvP gear, you don't really get the option to do anything but gem for haste, which is not replacing crit its replacing spell power (what most people gem for).

I suppose you could go for weapons with a lot of haste, but that leaves you with very tough weapons like the royal scepter and other 25m raid weapons which have more then the PvP or the hilt which all seem to have around 50 haste, and even then youre talking an extra 20-50 haste max over decent 232 or 219 weapons.

What haste stacking can you get? just gems? i don't see a lot of options in PvP gear aside from a select few accessories like the neck and cloak etc Im not sure how much haste you could actually stack and still keep enough resiliance to stay alive.

for BGs haste would rock, but you can sacrifice almost all resiliance for BGs since they are a joke as shamans.

[valkry]

heroism/bloodlust, nuff haste.

[asonimie]

Haste > Crit I think. Crit doesnt do that much. My priest and I thought about this last season before i retired mine.

[heyaz]

I've considered this as well, you end up with ~40% crit at all times which really only affects spells other than lava burst which should crit anyway. I know solo elemental shaman are going for haste these days.

One issue is the lack of haste on pvp mail: There is none on any of the set pieces, and only the cloth set has "of alacrity" (haste) bracers, belt, and boots. Your options are:

- Main hand
- WG shoulders
- Cloak
- Neck
- Trinket

And then +12 sp +10 haste gems where necessary. Even then I don't know how high that would get you.

[mrmcgee21]

Most people have 12% or more crit reduction, also most teams are dispelling your flameshocks so you can forget about having the garunteed crit anywhere above 2k. Crit is better than haste all day long, haste is only valuable against targets you can freecast on which simply isn't going to happen in pvp. Crit dmg is how you kill people due to the semi-random spikes it offers, haste allows you to put out more consistant dps, but consitant dps is predictable dps which is exactly what doesnt work in arenas. Also high haste with low crit is not valuable, even in pve. You sink your crit down to 17-24% or so in pve and that haste becomes much less effective, and in pvp gear you simply must sacrafice one of the two stats since resillience replaces something on pvp gear.

[Stealthy]

Thanks for the replies - they've got me thinking a bit more about this.

As mrmcgee pointed out - haste is only valuable against targets where you can free cast - so no point in stacking haste for Arena's. In BG's however, I find myself with a lot of free cast time - a lot of time is spent picking off single targets, so I could see haste having a role there - nuke target, move on, nuke target, move on, etc.

Here's a breakdown of the haste ratings of the various pvp items available:

main hand weapon - 51 (ilvl 264, requires 1800 rating)
WG shoulders - 63 (ilvl 251)*
cloak - 60 (ilvl 264)
neck - 60 (ilvl 264)
trinket - 128 (ilvl 245)
WG wrist - 42 (ilvl 226)

*there are WG legs as well (ilvl 232), but taking both shoulders & legs means you will lose your 4 piece bonus from normal PvP set - cooldown on Ground totem reduced by 1.5 secs & 88SP.

Assuming you want to keep socket bonuses, you'll most likely end up with 3 yellow sockets, which equates to 30 haste using Reckless Ametrine.

So that brings it up to a total of 434.

Also if you're running heroics, you'll probably have this: Bizuri's Totem of Shattered Ice, which can give up to 220 haste, which brings the total up to 654.

This equates to about 20% haste (19.94% to be exact). This will:
- Lower GCD 1.25 secs
- Lower LB & LvB cast time to 1.66 secs
- Lower CL cast time to 1.25 secs

Might be worth giving it a try for BG's / WG...

Cheers,
S.

[asonimie]

I kind of disagree with Mcgee. Ya haste helps you "free casting" but that's vague. Anything but EM+LvB is pretty much free casting... and considering EM LvB is easy to counter - that pretty much means it helps you with everything.

Classes moving out of LOS before your spells get off was a huge problem for shaman and still is. Haste giving you -15-20% might just make up for that. Never know. It's not going to save you from melee smash face cleave brostorm tho, which is why mine will remain retired.

[Littleburst]

I
Classes moving out of LOS before your spells get off was a huge problem for shaman and still is. Haste giving you -15-20% might just make up for that. Never know. It's not going to save you from melee smash face cleave brostorm tho, which is why mine will remain retired.

That really depends on how hard you hit. You'll have to sacrifice crit or SP for it. So if that would mean you would have to fire off another cast to get a target killed it's obviously not worth it. Since we're able to 2shot someone with LVb crit and CL i really wonder if the haste is gonna help you.

[asonimie]

I wouldn't sacrifice SP at all ever. Spellpower is king. Crit isn't that great and can easily be swapped out for haste.

[Kruschpakx4]

T
main hand weapon - 51 (ilvl 264, requires 1800 rating)
WG shoulders - 63 (ilvl 251)*
cloak - 60 (ilvl 264)
neck - 60 (ilvl 264)
trinket - 128 (ilvl 245)
WG wrist - 42 (ilvl 226)

*there are WG legs as well (ilvl 232), but taking both shoulders & legs means you will lose your 4 piece bonus from normal PvP set - cooldown on Ground totem reduced by 1.5 secs & 88SP.

Assuming you want to keep socket bonuses, you'll most likely end up with 3 yellow sockets, which equates to 30 haste using Reckless Ametrine.

So that brings it up to a total of 434.

Also if you're running heroics, you'll probably have this: Bizuri's Totem of Shattered Ice, which can give up to 220 haste, which brings the total up to 654.

This equates to about 20% haste (19.94% to be exact). This will:
- Lower GCD 1.25 secs
- Lower LB & LvB cast time to 1.66 secs
- Lower CL cast time to 1.25 secs

Might be worth giving it a try for BG's / WG...

Cheers,
S.

eh hit rating?

if you're going on haste rating with pvp gear and stacking haste gems you will end up with 0% hit ... so you will need some pve gear with haste + hit but you shouldn't go into arenas with pve gear as a shaman boxer :p

[mrmcgee21]

Stacking haste is just a bad idea, if you actually invest the time in doing this you will be very disappointed. You need to maximize the potential dmg of each spell so that ( ideally ) each volley can possibly get a kill. You wont be able to squeeze out a whole extra cast very often in arenas( which is the only way haste becomes beneficial ).