It's been a while... Quad Putracide any one?

[Nejcha]

I've been away from these forums for some time. But I thought I'd share some... eerr one of my adventures with you all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DkaVslBSnI

I'm still out here multiboxing my raids.

This is four boxing Putracide... I have a ton more videos even all the way back from every damn heroic, my first nax 10(so so soooo long ago), quad boxing 4tower FL, 3 drake sarth 25... and quite a few of me and my 5 box warlock friend doing toc25 O.o I'm just a lazy video editor. I'm hoping to put a bunch more together of my 10s and 25's all the gigs of scrap video I have into a longer more in depth video of raiding all of wotlk with 4 shamans (no less). But for now I'm putting together fights from icc10&25.

Enjoy!

[Fursphere]

Very nice! That's probably a world first in the multiboxing world. :D

How did you do Rotface?

[Nejcha]

The first week it was out while he was spawning oozes out to hell, not so well. The second week nailed him my first try. Just like I did Yog and Kolo-big lazyer eyes and arms boss... and Beasts. PAY attention. I get a debuff I grab that mouse and hall ass to the kyte tank while spamming in my rotation and watching for sprays on my other screen. That and fester gut are what i'm making an intro for rrriiiiggghhht now.

<3

Edit: Iike making intros....

Edit again! damn Video editor has me so distracted.... I prolly have quite a few world firsts if you look at the achievements... I don't raid while not multiboxed(4 at the least for all the ones I count as me doing it I've healed with some alts and dpsed plenty of things but those are "fun" or "for friends" my shamans are my serious thingy).

[Fursphere]

You said "grab a mouse" - you a hardware boxer? :D

[Nejcha]

You kids and your fancy software *shakes her cane*

I have bolth. With that said...

<3 hardware.

[Svpernova09]

Whats the best advice you can give aspiring multiboxers that want to raid?

We have a TON of boxers in guild, and the most common thing I see is most refuse to do the "gear up" leg work of farming heroics, farming rep for shoulder enchants and properly doing the very basic min / maxing or even the basic learning which stats to prioritize. I've raided solo for years and I've boxed a few raids (nothing huge) and I've always taken raiding very seriously and when it came to gearing my boxing team, I geared them as best I could to be "raid ready". I wish more people would do the leg work instead of "I see X raiding Y instance, I can too without the work!"

[Nejcha]

Oh do I, Mr. Svpernova09. I've been multibox raiding since BC I use to be vocal about it till a couple years ago when I realized no one cares unless it's arena, and I was never so good as to be amazing at that. So I have been waiting for this moment for far to long.

I run my own raids. I have to, most serious raiders on my server still considers me a joke. So out side of my current 10, everything I do is basicly with a big pug of people willing to "waist" their time with my nonsense. Considering I have like 3 other people in my guild who raid... ya... I do it in a pug : P I suffered hard in togc with the easy epics of toc I couldn't hardly get any one to follow me into the depths of 25togc. My server doesn't spawn the most... intelligent raiders.

Now most of my pugs regulars will tell you one of many wonderful things about me. The one that keeps some folks actually thinking I'm worthwhile as a raider is. It's like raiding with 4 people who show up, flasked, potting every fight kicking butt on dps and not bitching. (not to mention I have lots of gems for people... bribes help)

If you can make that image for you and your other multiboxers... Well who woudn't want you... They'd be crazy... or just jerks.

So that with that little story, I'd say it's 80% attitude and 20% farming your ass off for gear.

Little rant aside... the whole thing about minmaxing and knowing your class kinda go hand and hand with attitude.

I don't let a non-boxer or boxer(I raid with a couple others from feathermoon) in my raid with out enchants, epic gems, and the ability to speak about the gear choices they have made with out saying the words "i level" 50 times.

I'd always be happy to talk less in a text sences since it's not my strong point. I'm good on vent people tell me.

[Svpernova09]

Oh do I, Mr. Svpernova09. I've been multibox raiding since BC I use to be vocal about it till a couple years ago when I realized no one cares unless it's arena, and I was never so good as to be amazing at that. So I have been waiting for this moment for far to long.

I run my own raids. I have to, most serious raiders on my server still considers me a joke. So out side of my current 10, everything I do is basicly with a big pug of people willing to "waist" their time with my nonsense. Considering I have like 3 other people in my guild who raid... ya... I do it in a pug : P I suffered hard in togc with the easy epics of toc I couldn't hardly get any one to follow me into the depths of 25togc. My server doesn't spawn the most... intelligent raiders.

Now most of my pugs regulars will tell you one of many wonderful things about me. The one that keeps some folks actually thinking I'm worthwhile as a raider is. It's like raiding with 4 people who show up, flasked, potting every fight kicking butt on dps and not bitching. (not to mention I have lots of gems for people... bribes help)

If you can make that image for you and your other multiboxers... Well who woudn't want you... They'd be crazy... or just jerks.

So that with that little story, I'd say it's 80% attitude and 20% farming your ass off for gear.

Little rant aside... the whole thing about minmaxing and knowing your class kinda go hand and hand with attitude.

I don't let a non-boxer or boxer(I raid with a couple others from feathermoon) in my raid with out enchants, epic gems, and the ability to speak about the gear choices they have made with out saying the words "i level" 50 times.

I'd always be happy to talk less in a text sences since it's not my strong point. I'm good on vent people tell me.


I understand being a joke. I left Madoran to come to Kil'Jaeden so I wouldn't get laughed out of a raid instance. I raid solo on a "main" for the sheer pleasure of seeing content and working with a team. Everything I see in my solo raids also helps to translate to how to box it. It's nice to see someone doing this when the entire multiboxing world (outside of fotm arena) is pretty stagnant.

[Nejcha]

First two months on my server I couldn't be in a major town with at least 10 /spits. Now I get allot of cheers and a few playful jests... that took a well over a year of hard PR work on my part.

One of the things that helps is my utter refusal to single box anything. People want me they get the whole shaman deal or I walk.

Now does this effect my progression. Yes. I have to put up with dk's who do under 3k dps in t9.5 so I can carry half a 25 on my back through raids. But do I do it all eventually, that would also be a yes.

Thanks some one actually giving me props is very nice.

I've been hoping putting all my videos together would inspire some other folks for cata to take up the raiding banner.

[Nejcha]

Also... one of the things that helped is I haven't let people stop me from multiboxing. People clame "You can't multibox X or Y fight." or the dreaded on a new fight "I'd be easier with 3 other people in your clones place." Most of them I prove the first one wrong (4tower FL each shaman doing something different hell yes.) The other some one who raids with me often will say "Find 3 other players as good as her and we'll talk." (that makes me feel special)

The point is we can be effective raiders just like all of wow though only 8% of raiders are those special raiders so not every one's got their head on the right way to do it. Not saying I'm special, just saying the people who downed Lich King last week, they have a attitude that say I don't.

I've gotten some interviews from a few my raiders since nax... they some some real interesting things about raiding with multiboxers every week.

[Shodokan]

This is inspiring, not going to lie. Seeing a boxer with 4 characters that raid together and have 4 piece already and top end raid gear?

You've given me some hope to playing my shaman again, which i got bored of because people are retarded sometimes.

[Nejcha]

people are retarded sometimes.

More True words have not spoken.

Been keeping my gear top teir for a bit. Glad some one commented.

[thmsn]

I for one is thrilled to see you've done this, would love to see more videos of you doing things.

Have you played multiple roles in a raid, or is it "only" the 4 shammies as dps you've been raiding with?

Are you using a click macro, or are you playing all 4 as if you where just 1?

This makes me want to lvl my two other shamans to 80 and play around as DPS in raids :)

Again, good job, look forward to seeing more from you!

[Nejcha]

I for one is thrilled to see you've done this, would love to see more videos of you doing things.

Have you played multiple roles in a raid, or is it "only" the 4 shammies as dps you've been raiding with?

Are you using a click macro, or are you playing all 4 as if you where just 1?

This makes me want to lvl my two other shamans to 80 and play around as DPS in raids :)

Again, good job, look forward to seeing more from you!

I have played as Restox1-2 and elemental, I've also done enchancement and elemental. In a couple raids for friends I've played other classes with my shamans as well (could toc25's and 1 or 2 ulduars a few months ago). Mostly I play my shamans in any way they fit for the fight.

I have no idea what a click macro is... I'm kinda low dependency on any kinda software, and highly don't trust weird macros. took me till this video to actually use addons on my other screens so the didn't look a mess. I'm very much a minimalist when it comes to how my shamans are set up

I move via hard moving a small keypad that sits to my left has it mapped and follow commands. I call it line dancing when I move everything at once to avoid a hazard that follow would kill me with.

I hope to have a huge 40+ minute video compiled by the end of wrath documenting allot of my raiding, including screen shots and stories from my raiders.

[Fat Tire]

Extremely impressive Nejcha!

Thanks for the video.

I linked your sig to my wife and its funny what she said, "thats hot! Dreanei females are so fricken hot".

[Multibocks]

Your video is impressive, even more impressive is that your raid was on Need Before Greed, lol. I can't convince raids to use that feature.

[Nejcha]

Ya it helps when your raid trusts each other! If it were up to be it'd me FFA though : P

[HPAVC]

Well done.

[Domineek]

Being the single boxed warlock in the vid, I've gotta say raiding with Nechja and crew is always fun. Also, being the 5box warlock team when we do 25man raids, its even better. There definitely needs to be more videos. :D

[Phoenix_King]

Amazing video really do you have anymore stashed away anywhere that I could watch? I currently MT with my prot paladin in a small freind/family guild that still has to pug a person or two on weekends for ICC 10 we are short on members but they are all good players. I only MB occasionally my highest team sting in the 30s for awhile now but after watching this video I think I'm going to start putting a lot more effort into it they agreed that if i got a respectable team to 80 they would do some raids with me.

Starting today I'm either going to keep with my resto druid and 4 warlock team (lv11) or start fresh with shamans,mages, or maybe hunters. If I can llv a team fast enough I might be around to bug you for tips if you don't mind. Thanks again for the video and congratulations on all your success and hard work.

Armory for the lolz

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Firetree&cn=Bolan

[Dorffo]

great work and thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts!

[Mercurio]

Nejcha, great work! This is really good stuff and I congratulate you on some pretty big accomplishments.

With that said, it definitely takes some good friends to do this with. I've run ICC10 25 times with random PuGs in the last 3 weeks (playing a single tank, DPS, or healer each time) and I'd say I've got a pretty good feel for what is expected and valued in PuGs, at least on my server.

Here are some thoughts on what typical PuG raiders would think about having 4 boxed shammies in a raid:

1) Being Prepared
In almost all the he PuGs I've been in people are kicked before the 1st boss if they aren't enchanted, gemmed, and flasked. So it is great that you do that, but at least on Kil'Jaeden that wouldn't set you apart.

2) Your Perceived Value
DPS are kind of treated like a dime a dozen. It is always easy to fill DPS slots, so DPSers aren't highly valued. Raiders like to split DPS into casters and melee DPS roughly evenly and you are filling four of the 5-6 DPS slots with casters. Certainly doable, but this severly limits the options of what is left to fill. Most PuGs leaders are also pretty adamant on having almost all the buffs covered. A good portion of the PuGs I've been in have waited for 15 extra minutes spamming in Dalaran to fill the last spot with a certain class and spec just because they'd have a buff that wasn't covered (even with plenty of other well-geared alternatives offering their services). In the 25 PuGs I've run recently there have never been more than two shammies for that reason.

So with you in the group, the raid absolutely has to find at least one melee DPS, probably two (for those of you who don't know, the second boss demands physical DPS for some of the mobs) - not too hard to find but it limits options, two well geared healers (about 40% of the PuGs I've been in have 3 healed, but as shammies you can pick up the slack if needed so that isn't a problem), and two tanks.

In terms of perceived value, your four shammies fill the least valued roles and make putting the rest of the group together a tough task (because everything else is dictated once you join).

3) Loot Coverage
Most raid leaders like to fill a group with classes and specs that cover most of the drops. Disenchanting level 251 items still seems pretty painful to most people. With four DPS shammies you can't really make loot coverage efficient.

4) Inability to React as Well as Four People
Even as skilled as you are, there is no way you can be as effective as four well played toons. None of us can be as boxers. For example, you did a fabulous job in your video - much better than I could have done - but you did take some unnecessary damage that four well played toons would not have taken.

I feel bad about bringing up negatives about this because what you've done is fabulous and none of these are show-stoppers. What I'm trying to do is think through the objections all PuG raid leaders would have if I offered up my services as four DPS in their raids. It would be viewed as a burden on the group for all the other players.

All of these things go out the window when you take the time to form your own group and have understanding people that you raid with. To me, with all the crazies, poor players, and elitists out there your ability to do that is the most impressive thing of all.

[Domineek]

While those are valid points when considering a PuG raid, the difference is Nechja isn't joining a raid, she is the raid leader. True, some iLvl 251 things do get sharded in our 10s, however not a whole goes into the shard pile when people have dual-specs. Also, for our 10man runs, we have a pretty static group of people who have been running together since Naxxramas and some since Black Temple.

[Nejcha]

I don't think you have the right idea about me Mr. Mercurio. I _Run_ pugs. It's pretty much all I do to raid. Save this 10; I have going of people who enjoy playing with me, and have been for a long time. Now most the people I raid with will say, sometimes a take a bit more damage, but you have to know, allot of times we also have 1-2 healers instead of the normal 2-3. So if I look low at any points it's because we use a shaman and a paladin healer on that fight. Who in all honesty praised me on that downing for taking so little damage. I think I dodged all but 1 of the Bouncing slime.

I don't think my 10 would run with out me and my clones. I play to _multiraid_ no reason else.

And dps who can do 8-9k on many fights arn't a dime a dozen on my server.

I've been raiding these shamans since BC, killed bosses in sunwell, BT, Kael and vash pre 3.0... Raidin' is what I do. I don't do it hardcore but for a casual multibox raider... I think I have my head on right.

I'm guessing you just skimmed my posts though. So no harm done.


All of these things go out the window when you take the time to form your own group and have understanding people that you raid with. To me, with all the crazies, poor players, and elitists out there your ability to do that is the most impressive thing of all.

10's I can do it... and in 25's I'm not the dead shamans on the floor still. I'm normal the alive ones beating people on the charts and and doing my job...

[Nejcha]

Also Sony Vegas decided to trash 2 of my videos so I'm a little slow on getting the rest up. Should have most the bosses up in the next few days.... and prolly blood queen and Syndragosa up some time next week(here is to hopeing was super close this week, ran out of time to play with my raid, damn RL!).

Then it's just Lich King videos, Trying to set up a live feed on those attempts.

[zenga]

For an aspirant raider like myself, mercurio's post is very insightful, while i can see some find it 'negative' in this thread, he just outlines some of the 'con's'. That being said, nejcha's accomplishement (grats btw) gave me enough confidence to pug a 10 man raid myself while i'm 5 boxing, and all went well (easy raid, but still :). Explained my _situation_ at the start and asked if it was a problem for them. Zero objections and they were all curious to see how it worked. In the end my dps ended on top of the charts, and no single heal was needed on my tank from the pug healer. It would've probably taken some more weeks without this thread. So thanks for that too :)

[Nejcha]

Glad I did some good! What raid did you hit up?

[Mercurio]

I don't think you have the right idea about me Mr. Mercurio. I _Run_ pugs.

And dps who can do 8-9k on many fights arn't a dime a dozen on my server.



I guess based on my experiences with other people in ICC PuGs I'm just very surprised that random people are willing to think outside the box and participate with you as a boxer. As my post outlined, most people I'm with are adamant about min/maxing.

But your 2nd line quoted above clears a lot up for me. Besides AOE trash pulls, no one in any of the raids I've been in puts out that much DPS. I have six DPS toons that I raid on and they put out between 4500 and 6000 DPS on bosses with 5.3K - 5.4K gear score. Actually, it is my two ele shammies that are at 4500-5000, the others are higher. I guess if your toons have been to Saragosa they must have very good gear, but still, that's a major feat. If you can say, "I have four DPS that will each put out over 8K DPS on the first boss or I'll kick three of them" you go from a dime a dozen to a diamond in the rough.

That also explains a lot about your video and the first question I posted about it in your other thread (about your DPS).

Oh, and you don't have to call me "Mr. Mercurio". I definitely don't deserve that much respect. ;)

Now is when I should start asking you about rotations, talent specs, and gear selection because mine on my shammies is obviously very inferior to yours.

Here are their armory pages if you care to look at them, but if you'd rather spend your time raiding I totally understand.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kil%27jaeden&cn=Tigro
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kil%27jaeden&cn=Bengali

Thanks again for the posts - these are great.

[zenga]

Glad I did some good! What raid did you hit up?
Like i said, easy raid :) The weekly quest in nax (tried it solo first, but ran out of mana when i got patchwerk down to 25%, need to redo some macro'ing & keybinds for better mana management). My general attitude in any game is: i don't want to screw up for others (possibly that might have more to do with my ego/proud than really caring about the others actually). It's also one of the reasons why i never pug hc's: i don't want to be carried, i want to complete them first myself. Even if that means i'm going a bit slower. Once i'm done with a hc, i don't mind to help others/pug however.

I think for many new boxers tackling this first step into something new is the most important. Hence why this first mini nax raid opened my eyes. The main thing i'll have to learn is that i don't have to take care of/be responsible for the whole raid group, while i have to do that in hc's. There is another healer and tank who can keep an eye out. So i basically have to learn how to behave my group in a bigger group. Fellow puggers told me afterwards that for certain raids they saw a big advantage to have boxer in their group that performs well. Mainly because trash dies faster due to focussed fire (having 6 dps critting on the last 40k of a mob is kind of a waste) cause the raid can split up (which surprised me quite honestly that pug's seems to have such little coordination for that, i try to never waste any spells on a mob where i see my dot's will finish it off).

So all in all a great first step on my way up, inspired by your vid :)

[Acerak]

I've been away from these forums for some time. But I thought I'd share some... eerr one of my adventures with you all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DkaVslBSnI

I'm still out here multiboxing my raids.

This is four boxing Putracide... I have a ton more videos even all the way back from every damn heroic, my first nax 10(so so soooo long ago), quad boxing 4tower FL, 3 drake sarth 25... and quite a few of me and my 5 box warlock friend doing toc25 O.o I'm just a lazy video editor. I'm hoping to put a bunch more together of my 10s and 25's all the gigs of scrap video I have into a longer more in depth video of raiding all of wotlk with 4 shamans (no less). But for now I'm putting together fights from icc10&25.

Enjoy!

Wanted to commend you...we met once on Feathermoon, I was running fourbox pallies through Ramps at the time (the "Grendrick's"). I've switched my team up and it's now 1ProtPally, 2 Rets, 1 Unholy DK and a Resto Shaman...currently lvl 74.

I don't know I'd ever be up for raiding as a boxer, but it's truly impressive you've pulled this off. Gratz! :)

[Nejcha]

Like i said, easy raid :) i don't want to be carried, i want to complete them first myself. Even if that means i'm going a bit slower.

The main thing i'll have to learn is that i don't have to take care of/be responsible for the whole raid group, while i have to do that in hc's.


You have the right attitude for it for sure!

One of the main things is that you are 40%, 50%, 75%, 90%, even 100% of the raid. You (unless you're that 100%) have other people depending on you. Running at ten times the willpower and focus the rest of the people in the raid have and not making excuses for you self while raiding is key. I was in a run the other night with my shamans and I was proud of my dps, and one of the tanks on vent goes "we kinda expect you to do that, it isn't so amazing when we run with you so much." After posting on here I realize my raiders are fairly desensitized to the my mutliboxing antics. Give some folks a few months of raiding with you and the'll forget you have a harder job then them : P

[Marious]

Nejcha, that was very enjoyable thanks for posting it. I have not played for over a month and looking at this makes me itch to go back to it....

[coglistings]

I have to /bow to you. I have done the gearups, hdung farming, but I haven't done little to anything associated with raiding on the teams I have cause the monogamers don't take multis seriously. My hats off to you again for getting pugs to go with you, im still all "stuck up" with pugs i guess. learn from the pros i suppose :)

[DrChaos]

Nejcha, forgive me if im wrong but in your post you said, "shakes her cane".... are you a boxing female? if so, can I have YOUR babies?

A female, wow gamer, multiboxer, AND is polite..

[Nejcha]

AND is polite..

Thats untrue you take that back!

[Phoenix_King]

the more I watch this video and others the more I want to start boxing in my raids so I'm considering putting my low lv teams on hold and assembling the random 70s and 80s I already have into a mixed pve team. My priest and pally are already well geared and ready to go and I could have a lock, hunter, and shaman to 80 in a week or two if I worked at it.

The only drawback is I like to lv a full team from scratch so as they lv I can find the best way to play them together, but if I Frankenstein a team together that’s already 70+ I have a ton my abilities to string together as instead of working with them one or two at a time.

Sitting here bored on duty thinking of all the possible combinations and trying to come up with the best answer is probably 60% of the fun for me.

[Mercurio]

Just wanted to post a reply I had to a PM I got from Nejcha (by the way, her PM was great and just sought clarification on my earlier post):

Nejcha,

Wow, I very much appreciate the thoughtful PM.

I definitely don't deserve the "Mr." in "Mr. Mecurio" (though it is kind of cute now) and I'm not sure I deserve you sending me a PM to address my questions/issues. But thanks anyway.

So... here's where I am:
My original thought when I read your post was that you got a TON of very well-deserved praise for you accomplishments and that from my experiences I just wanted to present a bit of critique, or the downside (if small) of what you were doing. That's why I wrote the post as I did - a confusing "bit of praise - lots of critique - bit of praise" post.

I figured that after running ICC10 in PuGs over 40 times in a month that I knew how it should be done and what raid leaders expected. With that as background I thought there are some constraints you put on the raid that I wanted to discuss.

What you are helping me to figure out is that though I DO very much know what PuG raid leaders expect, I may NOT know how it should be done. I assumed that in 40 runs if there were alternate viable ways to do things that some of the 360 people (40 runs * 9 other people per) would have suggested them. With that big a sample size, I thought I could reasonably assume I knew all the ins and outs, so could speak with authority.

So here are some amazing facts you are helping me to learn that I wouldn't have believed a week ago based on my prior experiences in ICC:

The first five bosses in ICC can be solo-healed
You can bring in four DPS toons that all do 7K+ DPS
You can bring in random people in a PuG who can perform to a very high level even with an "odd" composition
You don't need even a single physical damage DPS in ICC (BTW, I still don't understand how this is possible with the Reanimated Adherants in Lady, but I have been convinced that I ought to believe you until proven otherwise :))
One week ago these were all completely out-of-the-box for me and had never been even mentioned by any of the other 360 people I've raided with.

So admittedly, I was ignorant earlier and I appologize if my original post came off as crass. If I had known any or all of these things beforehand my post would have been different.

Of course, I would still caution most boxers reading about your exploits that you are very unique in skill and experience and we all have quite a ways to go before we can think about replicating your accomplishments, but you have definitely opened our eyes to what is possible in our little hobby.

Thank you.

[DrChaos]

Thats untrue you take that back!

ROFL. only if i must....

[Slats]

Very very impressive and the fact you do this with a regular group of semi-organized pugs is incredible. I thought some of Niley's achievments where impressive but yours show sheer perserverence and determination.

I will actually have to login to my Youtube Account and subscribe to your movies. I would love to know more about your hardware setup/software setup.

I love hardware boxing also, I still have a mountian of ps2 cables and mice that all link into the same dongles and all my vetra kvm/switch stuff in my garage. Sadly the amount of heat generated and the space 5 computers/monitors/mounts took up as well as having two young children that love to find cables was just to much so I now use a single machine and software box. I do miss 'grabbing a mouse' and just controlling one character though, nothing can really beat that. :)

-Slats

[Toned]

Got Putricide to phase 3 last night with me on 4 shams:P Hoping to down him Sunday ^^

Going with the beginning of Nejcha's thread if you want to raid as a multi-boxer you have to take the initiative. I made a 10man guild that = Me x4 + my g/f + a coworker + 4 WoW friends :).

There is another guild that we run 25mans with that wouldn't let me multi-box. Last week on rotface after a wipe a few dps left and the raid leader was going to call it. I was like uh no more lawls! We downed it with me 3 boxing, so now I think they're down for letting me box 25mans too :)

I rotated 2 of my shams in 25man gotta get the other 2 in to balance out the Gear, but currently I have 2 Shams at 5500GS and the other 2 Between mid 5300-low 5400 :)