Melee Comp Viability

[Frausty]

Ello Mates,

Been doing quite a bit of reading on the forums here and have some questions regarding the melee comp. It sounds like it is quite the groundbreaking bit that melee comps can work now, however, the only comp I've really seen talked about is a tank + 4 retadins. Other melee comps out there making it too?

I've got one thats been brewing in my mind the last week or so, just wrote a great detailed post about it to that was 95% complete when windows7 ninja updated on me and killed 1.5 hours of refining my thoughts and specs on calculators...grrr, but anyway to rehash what I was thinking:

1x prot pally, 2 x retadin, 1 x fury war and either a blood/frost dk or an enhancement shammy for the basis of my idea

prot pally would tank, provide imp devotion aura, blessing of sanctuary, and also toss holy lights that splash to entire party (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sLZE0xA0u0GsIufzeb0x:diccmV)

fury warrior would provide rampage, commanding shout, imp demo shout, imp thunderclap, sunder for bosses, and would have imp bloodthirst, bloodcraze, and enraged regen for healing, and even last stand for a bubble-esque item
(http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sLZE0xA0u0GsIufzeb0x:diccmV)

retadins would have : Ello Mates,

Been doing quite a bit of reading on the forums here and have some questions regarding the melee comp. It sounds like it is quite the groundbreaking bit that melee comps can work now, however, the only comp I've really seen talked about is a tank + 4 retadins. Other melee comps out there making it too?

I've got one thats been brewing in my mind the last week or so, just wrote a great detailed post about it to that was 95% complete when windows7 ninja updated on me and killed 1.5 hours of refining my thoughts and specs on calculators...grrr, but anyway to rehash what I was thinking:

1x prot pally, 2 x retadin, 1 x fury war and either a blood/frost dk or an enhancement shammy for the basis of my idea

prot pally would tank, provide imp devotion aura, blessing of sanctuary, and also toss holy lights that splash to entire party (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sLZE0xA0u0GsIufzeb0x:diccmV)

fury warrior would provide rampage, commanding shout, imp demo shout, imp thunderclap, sunder for bosses, and would have imp bloodthirst, bloodcraze, and enraged regen for healing, and even last stand for a bubble-esque item
(http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sLZE0xA0u0GsIufzeb0x:diccmV)

retadins would have: imp might, kings, sanctified retribution, swift retribution, replinishment, divine storm healing 40% of dmg x 2, art of war, etc

Dk or enhance shammy fill in the buffs with 10% ap increase and 20% melee haste increase. Dk and Shammy are also crucial in pvp for either frost fever with chillblains + deathgrip or shamans frost shock with frozen power. they're equiv to oh crap bubble time buttons are shamanistic rage and icebound fortitude.
DK spec would be 1hers with blood worms for fast hp regen, and rune tap to heal party every 30 seconds for 10% max hp =
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EMqc0csfRbZhgcxiMhz0k:uRhM0m
Enhance shaman could provide some awesome totem effects like grounding totem, tremor totem, etc, almost making me want to drop a retadin and bring the dk and enhancement shammy, and get an 8% kings from trade items.
enhance shammy spec would look roughly like - http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#hxcZG0xMcEdIGuoMuioV

However.... am I biting off way more than melee specs can chew with this much complexity? It is a far cry from the homogenized 4 retadins. I read earlier on here that to do adequate dps with an enhancement shaman takes ones full attention, as opposed to the very simple ret rotation.

If I do bring all 5 classes, is keycloner + major macroing decent enough or is Isboxer required?

I specced all of the characters to have 5% dodge, 5% increased parry chance, etc etc, and think pvp gear might be a good call on the characters for instances as it stacks stamina and resilience ot reduce their chance of mobs critting them and also increases several of the percentage based heals (bloodthirst, runetap) etc.

Really though, just want to know if you guys, who are experienced 5 person multiboxers just look and see a gigantic headache, or a chance for some ridiculously powerful melee comp with the building buffs from each other.

Initial thoughts?

Btw, the warrior must stay in the mix, my main fro 4.5 years, keeping em that way.

[Khatovar]

I run a mostly melee group {see sig} .


prot pally would tank, provide imp devotion aura, blessing of sanctuary, and also toss holy lights that splash to entire party

Your tank will NOT be healing. Any non-instant cast spell brings your block and parry to ZERO. You will have no mana pool for casting Holy Lights anyway. You will end up taking far more damage than you heal, and even if you could manage to land heals, your mana would be way better spent continuing your tanking rotation.

Blessing of Sanc will have next to no use on anyone other than your tank. If your other toons are dodging, blocking or parrying enough to see any return whatsoever on BoSanc, then your tank is not doing his job. Your major Glyphs should be Hammer of Righteousness, Divine Plea and Seal of Vengeance.


I read earlier on here that to do adequate dps with an enhancement shaman takes ones full attention, as opposed to the very simple ret rotation.

Enh shaman take no more attention than rets do, it's still a single proc to worry about, everything else can be shoved into a single click sequence.

[Talos]

The biggest reason imho why 4rets work is the 4x divine storm + 4x Art of War instant Flash of Lights.
In heroics you WILL need healing, but you can do withouth a dedicated healer by substituting passive heals be it 4x totem of healing or 4x divine storm.

When you only take 1 or 2 rets there might be times on certain heavy hitting bosses that your tank goes down in a big spike.

Also this is the reason why many run DKtank + 4rets to add in the +20% haste buff (frost specced DK) withouth having to get a DK or Shaman DPS.

At first i ran protpally/4ret which worked quite nice in heroics, prot pally's are so sturdy i didnt even use my Art of War procs on healing but instead on Excorcism for dps.
But in PVP you notice you have no snare, but i must say it was fun driving my protpally in pvp cause he could soak up a LOT of damage

Than i switched it up to a DK tank for PVP (deathgrip, chains of ice, chillblains slow) and this made it possible to do better in PVP.
In heroics im still doing pretty damn good but i had to start using my Art of War procs on Flash of Lights on the DK cause DK tanks tend to get more spikyer damage than a prot pally.

[Frausty]

Your tank will NOT be healing. Any non-instant cast spell brings your block and parry to ZERO. You will have no mana pool for casting Holy Lights anyway. You will end up taking far more damage than you heal, and even if you could manage to land heals, your mana would be way better spent continuing your tanking rotation. .

Very good point!



Blessing of Sanc will have next to no use on anyone other than your tank. If your other toons are dodging, blocking or parrying enough to see any return whatsoever on BoSanc, then your tank is not doing his job. Your major Glyphs should be Hammer of Righteousness, Divine Plea and Seal of Vengeance.

Does blessing of sanctuary not stack with kings? Eeek, might have to switch back to my original idea and do a tiny titan tank for fun. Thus the reason I post before I run around like an idiot with kings and sanc on thinking im sooo strong with +20% strength.

In that case, think i'd take the prot pally outta the comp, replace him with a 3rd retadin that has 18 pts into prot for imp devotion aura. As for a tank....what about a god-mode fury tank in defensive stance? mmm...something like...

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LVZGE0s0VuMgobzZVIx0T0zb:0fdomz
if I use a tanking 1her with 1.6 attack speed + 25% flurry and 20% imp haste from shammy or dk for 56% haste, could potentially being healing up to 6% of max hp every 4 seconds from imp bloodthirst, would prolly want to mix tanking and dps gear on most runs, only going full tank gear for things such as HoR....mmm, seems like dual spec should be focused into actually getting titans grip and being back in zerker stance for dps...


[/QUOTE]
Enh shaman take no more attention than rets do, it's still a single proc to worry about, everything else can be shoved into a single click sequence [/QUOTE]

hmmm tempted to build this:
1 rampaging warrior tank
1 dk
1 enhance shammy
2 retadins, one with imp devo

i like the utility of having dk and shammy for initiating battle in pvp

Question: how do melee auto return to targets after fears and such, and what is the range of their pathfinding ability?

[Boylston]

Fury DPS is not nearly as easy to optimize as Ret. Another negative.

I think everyone is converging on DK+4xRet as best all-around if you want to PvP/Arena and 5xPallies is a nice PvE setup. Geared well, I like DK as a tank since you can really get some great buffage going with the hybrid Blood/Frost build.

[Kang]

A berserker tank will not work. you will need to be in defensive stance and will not be able to cast bloodthirst. You are probably better off having the dk go blood and tank that way.

[Ualaa]

For PvE, just about anything you want to try can work, at least to a degree.

If you went with:
1x Prot
2x Ret
1x Fury
1x DK/Shm

You'd have the option of a dual-spec Shaman (to Resto) or one of the Pallies (off-spec Holy) for heals, -if- the passive healing from Healing Stream Totem + 2x Divine Storm + 2x Art of War + Judgement of Light was not enough. You'd have to test that to be sure, either way. Chances are, at lower levels of gear (starting heroics), you might have some issues. Once the team was geared a bit, heroics would mostly (aside from the newer few) be a breeze.



PvP is a different matter.

While any composition can compete, very few can compete successfully.
You need strong synergy between the classes, a lot of pressure be it damage you deal or the power to soak/heal through anything they dish out as you whittle them down, etc.

And then there are buttons and keys, the fewer to mash the easier it will be to play at maximum efficiency.
But, sequences which rock for PvE, don't give you the freedom to respond correctly in PvP always.
Which is generally why fewer classes (1-2 max) is more successful then 5x different classes in pvp.

Not trying to be discouraging.
For the longest time, the only viable PvP composition was 4x Shaman, someone else on the healer.
And almost everyone had a 4x shaman team, even if we weren't at Ellay's level (or even close, in my case).
Then Kromtor comes along with a 5 toon team (no one else on the healer) and playing two classes to boot.
So, there are a lot of comps out there that can work.
And not all have been found yet.

[Frausty]

A berserker tank will not work. you will need to be in defensive stance and will not be able to cast bloodthirst. You are probably better off having the dk go blood and tank that way.

berserk tank works, not in berserk stance, in defensive of course, but specced fury and with the correct gear, anticipation, toughness, and parry specced as well. Bloodthirst does work in any stance, just like mortal strike, as does shield slam (just need shield equipped). Thus, primary three abilities to tank with fury spec in defensive are 1) bloodthirst, 2)thunderclap 3)shield slam --- toss in demo shout, sunders on boss, and cleave with extra rage as it doesnt consume a gcd ~ can easily tank any heroic this way with adequate defense gear, and can solo clear large patches of content through self-healing

[Frausty]

Fury DPS is not nearly as easy to optimize as Ret. Another negative.

I think everyone is converging on DK+4xRet as best all-around if you want to PvP/Arena and 5xPallies is a nice PvE setup. Geared well, I like DK as a tank since you can really get some great buffage going with the hybrid Blood/Frost build.

yah i agree, fury dps wont be as easy to implement... i'm still trying to figure out isboxer right now (but have 65+ levels to do so) - am considering keeping WW at 10 sec cast to match divine storms, although hopefully by the time I'm 80 ill be beyond keycloning with isboxer ~ just by keycloning though can match divine storms to ww on 10 sec cd, and bloodthirst to crusader strike on 4 sec cd... meh long way to go!

created four dwarf pallies ~ going to level them, maybe pick up a dk in the 60s or an enh sham ive got a 45, then team them to my warrior and see what happens....

already loving four dwarves running in to smash something....muwahhaha...i know every man for himself woulda been > stoneskin, and the versatility of bonuses to axes and swords is greater than just maces for gearing...but gotta love four dwarves running behind a gnome lol

guess my sig should be

frausty - 80 gnome warrior
ekimjr - dwarf pally
litebridgejr - dwarf pally
maydiejr - dwarf pally
nicojr - dwarf pally

[Frausty]

For PvE, just about anything you want to try can work, at least to a degree.

If you went with:
1x Prot
2x Ret
1x Fury
1x DK/Shm

You'd have the option of a dual-spec Shaman (to Resto) or one of the Pallies (off-spec Holy) for heals, -if- the passive healing from Healing Stream Totem + 2x Divine Storm + 2x Art of War + Judgement of Light was not enough. You'd have to test that to be sure, either way. Chances are, at lower levels of gear (starting heroics), you might have some issues. Once the team was geared a bit, heroics would mostly (aside from the newer few) be a breeze.



PvP is a different matter.

While any composition can compete, very few can compete successfully.
You need strong synergy between the classes, a lot of pressure be it damage you deal or the power to soak/heal through anything they dish out as you whittle them down, etc.

And then there are buttons and keys, the fewer to mash the easier it will be to play at maximum efficiency.
But, sequences which rock for PvE, don't give you the freedom to respond correctly in PvP always.
Which is generally why fewer classes (1-2 max) is more successful then 5x different classes in pvp.

Not trying to be discouraging.
For the longest time, the only viable PvP composition was 4x Shaman, someone else on the healer.
And almost everyone had a 4x shaman team, even if we weren't at Ellay's level (or even close, in my case).
Then Kromtor comes along with a 5 toon team (no one else on the healer) and playing two classes to boot.
So, there are a lot of comps out there that can work.
And not all have been found yet.

Hey Ualaa thanks for your work on the ISboxer guide, I referred ya :P

[zenga]

A melee comp i'm working on (slowly) but which is very fun to play is my 5x rogue. i do often swap out 1 for a dual spec enhance/resto shammy. Still trying to figure out what works best for me. So far only doing BG's but despite my 60ish level and lack of experience, i see many opportunities for it in pvp.

[Ualaa]

Thank you.

[leroyreborn]

well have to say the 4 ret are easy and fun to play way funner than i thought the would be. only lvling 4 because all ready got an 80 DK. one thing i found realy nice about ret team there so much aoe that stuff dies with out evening being targeted. with the right set up do not even have to stop to kill just keep running =) thats the main reason i like them.

i even got plans for a wagon melee team. so far its
rogue-combat
DK-blood/frost
warrior-fury
shammy-enhance/ resto for instances
druid-feral
should be fun all wagon but the shammy which will be a dwarf

[Ualaa]

I'm messing around with 5x Feral Druids.

Have a lot of ideas for them.
The plan is to run them as a pvp team, with a focus on battlegrounds.
They will arena when they eventually reach 80th, because that's the only rated content at the moment -- and rated content is where you get the best pvp gear.

They killed their first horde at 66th, it was a 78th level mage, who died from the first set of Mangle x5. At 68th, they took out their first 80th, again world pvp. I'm on a carebear server, but was flagged for Spirit Towers/Halaa and was attacked, so they were ready. True, that is very limited pvp experience so far, but the team has potential.

For PvE, they have potential too. I can run one tree, one bear and three DPS. "The Moo's", have a lot of videos in the movie section, that's with 3x Boomkin as dps. But with Interact With Target, melee is viable. My team has a lot more burst then the shammies had at a similar level.

[Los]

As im quite uninterested in leveling again, but hoping to find somebody here that tried the following (as i do have 4 elemental shamans).

Anybody that has set his elemental shamans to enhancement to see how well they work out? They have the totems, they can cast fast heals where needed, just macroing them would be a tad more annoying then lets say paladins.

[Solon]

My latest team is driving a dwarven priest, with 4 dwarven warriors following. 4x charge is funny, like sending 4 heat seeking, bearded, axe wielding missiles! I have been clearing instances at the middle levels and am having a blast. I miss my prot paladin though. Much easier to macro and holds aggro on multiple mobs better.
I have tried multiple melee teams, and unless you are doing the FotM or a gimmick team, prot pally makes the easiest tank.
I am going to try the furious warrior tank today though, thanks for that info!

[Bigfish]

Basic Fury Warrior no thought macro is pretty simple.

/castsequence resmet=combat whirlwind, bloodthirst, bloodthirst
/cast !heroic Strike

Tossing in a couple things for shouts, trinkets and the like is also nice. Pull ~4k DPS on my warrior that way.

[Frausty]

What is the best way you guys have found to level from 60-80?

So I got my 4 pallies to 61-62, then decided to play through Dk start cause i love that anyway, and ended up inserting one of the 4 dks i made into my comp...so right now its looking like this:

Frausty 80 Fury Warrior
Chione 63 Blood/Ice DK
Maydiejr 63 Retadin
Litebridgejr 62 Retadin
Typepjr 62 Retadin

For leveling at this point, anyone have any ideas on which way to go to make it go quickest?

I've been running ramparts since lvl 55 pretty much, so all the chars decently geared. I also have a lvl 64 DK on Fraustys account as well as a 72 priest on fraustys account - considering subbing one of those two in for some runs without the high level owning everything.

Also considering doing some alterac valleys with 2x DK 3 x ret perhaps. Still configuring Isboxer quite a bit and making tons of mistakes and learning n such.

One thing I've found is that getting Chione (blood/ice dk) to get abominable strength on is annoying cause I lead with my 80 warrior, so unlike the ranged icy touch, I think i often burn through all my ice runes by the time I get into melee and smash the button that corresponds to her death strike which has 100% chance of granting the abominable strength--- considering switching in blood strike as it only takes 1 blood rune and no frosts.

Overall, 5 boxing is fun, as long as this bloody hawaiian connection doesnt flake out on me.

[Frausty]

patch 3.3.3 notes on dk:
Talents
Blood
Abomination's Might: This effect is now passive instead of being a proc on certain strikes. Rank 1 is 5% attack power and Rank 2 is 10% attack power. The self strength buff remains unchanged.

Sweet!

[Frausty]

Improved Icy Talons: This effect is now passive instead of being a proc. The self haste buff remains unchanged.

another patch 3.3.3 change - - - seems like buffs will stay up always with one dk in group, should make my life easier, now just gotta figure out how to make the dk do dmg :)

[Frausty]

My latest team is driving a dwarven priest, with 4 dwarven warriors following. 4x charge is funny, like sending 4 heat seeking, bearded, axe wielding missiles! I have been clearing instances at the middle levels and am having a blast. I miss my prot paladin though. Much easier to macro and holds aggro on multiple mobs better.
I have tried multiple melee teams, and unless you are doing the FotM or a gimmick team, prot pally makes the easiest tank.
I am going to try the furious warrior tank today though, thanks for that info!

Furious tank going out the door in cataclysm apparently - instead of getting defense from armor, it will be increased via talents. Oh z well.

[Los]

Tbh wasn't it they wanted more arms/fury tankers (and similar with other specs)

[boxblizzard]

using druid tank, 3 unholy dk's and 1 resto sham.

im loving it, army of ghouls, pets and ams. not forgetting shit hot ae.

you can explore other melee, if i wanted to change id start looking at 3x feral dps/warriors. anything can be used, nothing is impossible.

just do and project what YOU want to do. gl and have fun doing it