DK and Pally group questions

[ragawaga]

I've been reading the posts of people using 5 ret groups or dk and 4 rets and it has me interested. I currently have an 80 decently geared prot pally. So would like to keep him as tank. So my questions in no order me importance are

I see that a dk is used as a tank and wondered why this is given that the pally tanks take less spikey damage?

What combo would be better of 1 prot pally, 1 ret, 3 dk ...or 1 prot pally, 2 ret, 2 dk?

Why use a dk at all? Do they bring something extra that would be lost with 5 pallys?

Slightly OT, how many levels can a level 80 grant to a linked account? Still only 30? I ask because only 2 of my accounts still have raf..

[Ualaa]

For the most part, a DK is harder to macro/click sequence then a Pally.
So many will drive with the DK, hitting whatever runes are not on cooldown.
There are some click macros for the DK, Stealthy has one for Unholy Tanking on the wiki.
Have not seen a click macro for a DPS DK, chances are you'd run Blood as a DPS.



I'd go with more Pallies and fewer DK's.
Basically, up to 3 Pallies get your additional blessings and useful aura's for your team.
Plus you can judge three different judgements.
A DK has quite a few melee buffs which they add to the team... but aside from a second Death Grip, an extra DK doesn't add as much as an extra Pally.

I'd probably go Prot, DK, 3x Ret.
Of your choices, I'd go with the 2nd option... Prot, 2x Ret, 2x DK.



The DK brings Death Grip, which is huge in pvp and overcomes the ranging/kiting issue in many cases.
They also have the Frost thing (sorry don't play a DK), for a substantial snare once someone is in melee range.
They add several other melee buffs to the team.

Once you already have four Pallies on the team...
A fifth lets you double up on a second Judgement in combat... you already have the buffs you'd want.
A DK brings a lot more then a fifth Pally does.

The Pallies have Divine Storm, which is a heal for the most hurt target.
And they have Art of War procs, which can be self heals or directed heals at whoever is taking damage.
That is probably the biggest thing a 5th paladin adds to the team.
But a DK has some self healing too, and brings a lot of buffs to the table.



You can grant 1 level, per even level gained.
But once you are 60th, RAF ends.

So if you were leveling 1st to 60th, you cap out at 30 levels granted (to a toon lower then yourself).
Or if you were a DK, then you only gained three levels (56th, 58th and 60th), in which case you can grant 3 levels.

[ragawaga]

Thanks for that.

So in a "standard" setup of 4 pally and a dk, is the reason to make the dk tank purely based on the further level of micromanagement needed...or is it based on something else?

[asonimie]

I tank on the DK because that 4th ret is too valuable.... not because the DK is a superior tank. Also - switching a pally to prot means the DK goes dps... which he fails at.

The extra dmg and healing from a 4th ret more than outweigh the extra dmg and PITA factor of tanking on a DK. Plus in PVP I prefer having my DK as a huge dmg sink... so full tanking gear is a plus for this also.

[Ualaa]

The DK brings a lot to the team, in terms of buffs.
And brings tactical options to the team in pvp.

You'd want the one DK on the team, over a 5th Pally.

But the 2nd DK, over the fourth pally... probably not.
Not saying don't go with it, just that it will not be an optimal choice.

[ragawaga]

So I've taken everyone's advice and went for a 4 pally and dk group. Like I've said, I already have an 80 prot pally, who I've changed his offspec from holy to ret..he has some ret gear. A 63 dk who's been gathering dust since about the second week of wrath.

I have 2 linked accounts that still have raf, but only 6 days left. I've gifted one pally to 31 and am boosting 2. When they'r 60 I'll gift the lower pally to 60 and transfer him to another account and begin the proper process. Getting them up to 60 in 6 days is fairly doable, I've done it before, but there's rl stuff going on, so it'll be tight! Nothing like a bit of pressure.

[Boylston]

It's fast enough without RAF that if you don't quite make it all the way to 60, it's not the end of the world. You will spend a much larger percentage of your time doing the final 70-80 stretch than anything else.

If you have Bind on Account heirlooms for more XP gain, by all means use them!

[Ualaa]

Also, you mentioned a character transfer between accounts.
The toon who transfers can move heirlooms, I've done that in the past.
And if they have badges unspent (or stonekeeper shards), they can spend them on the new account too.

[ragawaga]

I've got the pve chest and pvp shoulders on them, this should help speed it up a bit. Unfortunately I didn't get much time on last night, and only managed to get them from 12 - 27. I was hopping to have been into the 30's.
As far as moving the heirlooms, I'll not bother with that, the account it's going to be moved to will be able to farm the badges and shards for that without much difficulty.

[ragawaga]

One more question :) When doing the 60-80 levelling grind.....do you level the DK in a tank spec collecting the tank gear....or level as DPS to make it quicker?

[Shodokan]

One more question :) When doing the 60-80 levelling grind.....do you level the DK in a tank spec collecting the tank gear....or level as DPS to make it quicker?

That is all up to you. You are playing 5 toons, anything you attack is going to die fast. If you want to do dungeons while leveling for whatever quests they have for you, or just to break up the grind then i suggest that you level your dk as a tank.

Lets face it, while leveling the DK is mainly all about death gripping things into range for your lolstorm to kill.

[Boylston]

My DK tank (team is now 75-77) has leveled as hybrid Frost/Blood (for the Icy Touch haste buff + blood 10% AP buff). I've done instances almost exclusively from 72 on, just to collect blue gear and fill in holes in questing (because I can't be bothered to do collection quests!).

His gear is quest rewards and the occasional +Def or "tank" item. I'm not worried about defense caps or other tank gear specialization until he hits L80 and is ready to start doing heroics. You don't need a great "tank set" from 60-80.

I plan on using full Savage Saronite set at L78 for all my team, including the DK. At 80, I will run him through instances on his own for a week or so until he has the tank gear necessary to have an easier time at heroic farming.

So... from 60-80, don't sweat it if you're not in the perfect tank gear or spec... You'll probably be just fine.

(Just don't forget Frost Presence!) :P

[ragawaga]

Well, I managed to get them to 60 on Saturday morning. After reading a post a while back on using Scholomance for boosting, I decided to give that a try. OMG I'm so glad I did. I'd never done it before on any of my characters, fortunately I have a blacksmith so was able to unlock the door to get into the instance. Was just a matter of clearing the 4 mobs in the first room, then I was able to leave the slaves there while I went through and cleared the instance. No eye of naxxramus to worry about. No wandering pats. No getting silenced when I've made a huge pull.

The only minor annoyance was to make sure to put loot on FFA when you kill the boss with the viewing room key as it seems that this is only available to the toon who's turn it was to loot.

So now I start the process of finishing off getting heirlooms. Oh that reminds me.....what's the general opinion on DKs using the 2H heirloom axe with crusader.....or just getting drops and using runeforging on them?

[Ualaa]

I was under the impression the Runeforging was a superior enchant to anything you can put on a weapon as an enchanter. Not absolutely positive on that.

I know Crusader has reduced returns beyond 60th level. Not sure at what point another enchant becomes better, but that's probably the top 1st to 60th level melee enchant.

[ragawaga]

It's not solely the enchant that I'm focusing on....it's more the

The heirloom would be the best weapon for me as the stats will constantly improve while levelling....and will also mean more gold from quest rewards. However the enchant is inferior to runeforging.

Or upgrade weapons as I go which won't have as good stats as the heirloom, but a better enchant.


As far as crusader above 60 goes....it's just that it's not as effective, it still works quite well from what I've been told.

[Ualaa]

Can you put Runeforging on the BoA weapon?

[ragawaga]

Can you put Runeforging on the BoA weapon?

No.

So the choice is the BoA 2H axe with crusader....
or
Drop/quest reward weapons which won't be as good....but will get a better enchant from runeforging.

Pro of heirloom is that it's great stats, levels with me, doesn't need repairs, will generate max gold from quests where the reward is weapons. Con would be that it doesn't take runeforging.

The opposite is true for taking non BoA weapon.

[Boylston]

BoA weapons are most useful when you are solo, in my opinion.

My DK+4xRet team is now Level 78-80, and they didn't use any BoA weapons, just quest rewards and Blue dungeon drops. I got 5 Ingvar's cleavers, 5 trollbanes, and 5 weapons from the Ring of Blood/Amphitheatre of Anguish quests.

I also went without BoA XP-boosting chests on 3 of the characters, which is why they ended up from 78-80.

Being able to utilize runeforging is a nice plus, but it honestly doesn't matter a whole lot. Get to L80 as efficiently as possible and then put in the time to properly gear them out...

[ragawaga]

BoA weapons are most useful when you are solo, in my opinion.

I agree.....when there's multiple toons, micro management of stats isn't quite so important. That said however, the theory I'm operating on is, the better the gear, the quicker the mobs will die and the quicker I'll level :)



I also went without BoA XP-boosting chests on 3 of the characters, which is why they ended up from 78-80.

Well, after last night, the 4 that will be getting levelled all now have the WG plate shoulders and the 40 badge plate chest.


Being able to utilize runeforging is a nice plus, but it honestly doesn't matter a whole lot. Get to L80 as efficiently as possible and then put in the time to properly gear them out...

The reason I've not started the team actually levelling yet is mostly due to the fact that my second monitor died. I'm finding it hard adjusting to having all of the windows on my remaining (albiet fairly large) monitor. So I'm doing the dull farming type activities at the moment in order to get them ready. There's also the fact that the paladins are mostly still in their level 1 starting gear with no weapon skills or defence. I figure that having the heirlooms will help them survive those first few OL quests to gear up :p

[Ualaa]

If you have the badges to spare, the BoA weaponry won't hurt.

They might not be the best weapon at every level, but they'll be close to the best.
And one thing less to worry about.

I'd probably save badges for other BoA +experience items, for future teams.
But if you have that already, or are fairly sure you won't be playing other teams...
Then the weapons are definitely decent.