new team, trying to be a little different..

[fightcow]

ok ive tried DK+4druids and DK+druid+3Hunters to 80, but then i get a little bored when it comes to emblem farming.
So, trying something new, my team is underway, just instance/RAF boosting through to 60 atm so havent actually 'used' them yet:
Holy paladin = Tank&Healer
4x affliction warlocks = DPS

now, my crazy theory is, the paladin will mainly rely on healing himself for aggro.
the affliction spec warlocks have considerable self healing with haunt/lifetap/corruption which im hoping is enough to cover incidental damage and splash/aoe etc as i will have no group heal.
The holy paladin has quite a few damage reduction tricks and the locks have the pets for extra damage&utility.

My main concern is balancing defence & Spellpower on the paladin. apart from that i cant wait to see how it works out.
Im also hoping this team will prove viable for levelling in BG's part of the time, should be fun to try anyway.

Id appreciate any helpful feedback on my team choice? good or bad :)

[Khatovar]

Prot paladins get a ton of tools they need in the lower half of their tree, including large boosts to stamina, damage reduction and block. You won't get near any of them with a holy build.

In PvP, agro isn't an issue, you'd just be a healer.

In PvE, I don't know that there's any way to generate more agro through healing than DPS. It may be possible with a ton of micromangement and coordination of Hand of Reckoning, Hand of Salvation and Soulshatter.

In PvE, gear is never going to be on your side. Defense/melee gear has no spell power, crit, int, spell haste. Healer gear has no defense, low stamina, no block/dodge/parry. Blizz has gone a long way down the nerf road to make sure of that. You would need to count on PvP gear with resiliance to get you crit immune. You would need substantial amounts of haste to spamheal your way out of incoming damage, even with pushback resistance. Also, you get 0 block and parry while casting, which you will be doing 99% of the time.

It may be possible, just about anything is with enough {fill in the blank}, but I see it being a lot of work and a lot of reliance on luck and gimmicks at the end of the day.

[abodeofravens]

Honestly you are probably looking at a lot of frustration if you try the paladin as holy with holy gear /pvp gear. My team on The Ten Who Were Taken is Paladin/prot Priest/disc Lock/demo Lock/dest Shaman/element.

I original had pally priest 3 lock and did 3 affliction and then 3 destruction and finally one of each. Let me break down my experience.

prot pally if you go holy gear etc... you will completely lack +hit rating (healing gear does not have it) +expertise rating (same) and none of the defensive skills (dodge block parry defense miss). these are all huge to your ability to hold aggro on a mob, land judgements, as well as mitigate damage. When you get all purple in your gear you will notice that plate armor is really only giving you 10-30% less damage per hit from physical damage but you are missing 10-20% of the mitigated hits (dodge parry miss) and redcued hits from block. If you get stunned/silenced/feared you will go down like tissue because you are both the tank and healer.

As the warlocks go... i would suggest going with a mixed batch. Each one gets its own heals from spells (well destro does not but you get more reduction and higher stamina and spellpower). I personally though affliction would be the way to go as i used to be a pvp lock but in all honesty, with casting times and lack of mobility from being a boxer, you might be better off with the big hits fast to kill quicker than letting the dots tick away.its not bad at all making macros for each build as I am sure you know based on your experiences 5 box already. again this is just my opinion from having done similar to what you are.

I ended up dropping a warlock for a shaman due to the utility they offer. it helped a ton. like night and day. with my final group i have several utility procs that impact the entire group and make them all stronger. the shaman does alot more up front damage than i would like even while being less geared still but he does not have the lead in spells the locks do (corruption/CoWhatever/immolate).

With my group the way it is I would still be nowhere without a healer of some kind. I cannot begin to imagine trying to self heal and i dont even bother trying on a wipe type situation where my healer goes down for some odd reason. It seems you are looking at it from a killer faster than be killed standpoint and if you are determined to go that route i would go protection paladin x4 destro lcoks and hope you can destroy the targets before your tank dies.

I hope that you dont think i am bashing because i really am just trying to give you helpful advice... its a tough road you are thinking of running. if you do decide to change... in heroics 80s geared now my priest casts power word shield and renew every cooldown... nothing else is required except on bosses where i add holy nova in to heal the rest of the team.

in any case... post your successes. nothing is kooler on these boards than people achieving the impossible and figuring out how to do so as they play.

[Naysayer]

Id appreciate any helpful feedback on my team choice? good or bad :)

I'd really like to rip you a new one since you make it so easy, but I'm just going to say bad.

[genocyde]

Also, you cannot block etc. while casting and since pally healers are 99% casted you will never block. Your warlocks could probably tank just as well. You'd be better off tanking ret or with a moonkin or something.

[Owltoid]

I'd really like to rip you a new one since you make it so easy, but I'm just going to say bad.

Such a charming dude.

[scartomyzon]

Your warlocks could probably tank just as well. You'd be better off tanking ret or with a moonkin or something.

This works ok. I have run demonolgy warlocks and and a ret paladin to 60-ish. I had the pets (voidwalker) tanking and the paladin would heal when needed. It was hard (sometimes) for the pets to hold agro. I never ran any heroics with this setup, but it was actually a lot of fun. Things die pretty quick with this team.

Scart

[Owltoid]

This works ok. I have run demonolgy warlocks and and a ret paladin to 60-ish. I had the pets (voidwalker) tanking and the paladin would heal when needed. It was hard (sometimes) for the pets to hold agro. I never ran any heroics with this setup, but it was actually a lot of fun. Things die pretty quick with this team.

Scart

I've never played a team where the pets tank, but this forum has multiple posts on the subject. The consensus seems to be that pets can tank everything excluding heroics. Unless the team massively outgears the instance, warlock and hunter pets would have a very difficult time with WotLK heroics.

[Naysayer]

Such a charming dude.

Awkward.

Sorry, I'm straight. Go try match.com or something.

[Boylston]

Such a charming dude.

Like or not... he's right. This seems like a real dreadful combination.

[fightcow]

I'd really like to rip you a new one since you make it so easy, but I'm just going to say bad.

I didnt ask you to rate my choice, i asked for 'good or bad feedback'. hmm maybe yours counts, its bad.

but to everyone else, thanks for your thoughts :) i feel i should clarify that im not trying to make an uber team or even make it easy on myself, ive done that with the standard healer-tank-dps, maybe it cant be done any other way... i wanna try though just for fun.

for aggro help i can use righteous fury, increase threat by 80% of all holy spells, inc healing afaik.
also i can talent the lock dps to reduce threat by 30%(i think, or 20%..)
and taunts, consecration, judgements etc

loss of avoidance while casting is something i hadnt thought of, so thats a bummer! what about dodge?

healing with FoL and sacred shield and fusion of light should be quite helpful, 50%crit chance and 100% Hot..

tbh, its loss of mobility that im starting to worry about now.. really appreciated that with the druid and BM hunters.

[genocyde]

Well I say give it a shot. Worst case scenario is you end up running prot pally 4x dps. I can think of quite a few heroics where that is an option.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Such a charming dude.
As our token skeptic/cynic/prophet of doom, I find his posts hilarious. Says what many of us are thinking, in that crotchety-old-man style, without the arrogance that some of our more well known loudmouths tend to exhibit.

As for feedback on the OP's idea, I'm pretty sure we've fairly exhaustively debunked any ideas about pally tanks being able to keep aggro through heals and live.

[fightcow]

As our token skeptic/cynic/prophet of doom, I find his posts hilarious. Says what many of us are thinking, in that crotchety-old-man style, without the arrogance that some of our more well known loudmouths tend to exhibit.

As for feedback on the OP's idea, I'm pretty sure we've fairly exhaustively debunked any ideas about pally tanks being able to keep aggro through heals and live.


many of you were thinking 'i really want to rip him a new one' ??
for asking for feedback on an idea..

nice, thanks for that.

[genocyde]

Pretty sure Ugh was just referring to Naysayer's average post not that one in particular.

By no means does Naysayer represent the average person on this forum and from what I've seen many do not like him or negative posts at all.

I'll give him the crotchety-old-man style funny factor though sometimes and his avatar is win considering his post style.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

many of you were thinking 'i really want to rip him a new one' ??
for asking for feedback on an idea..

nice, thanks for that.
/facepalm

Some of you have zero imagination or sense of humor. You really should try improving your outlook on life.

[fightcow]

/facepalm

Some of you have zero imagination or sense of humor. You really should try improving your outlook on life.

one day, if i try real hard, do you think i could be as cool as you.. :)

funny and imaginative enough for ya boss?

[Ughmahedhurtz]

one day, if i try real hard, do you think i could be as cool as you.. :)

funny and imaginative enough for ya boss?

<gunny>YOU DON'T SCARE ME! WORK ON IT!</gunny> ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyg05bw-xH8 )