Dynamic Spread-Out or Formations.

[Ualaa]

Most of us have a hotkey, for toons to spread out.
This is great against AoE damage, plus formations can look quite nice.

Up until now, I have had static spreading out.
-- Toon A - North
-- Toon B - South
-- Toon C - Stationary
-- Toon D - West
-- Toon E - East

This works great, while Toon C is the active character.
The others were on follow, and the spread out or formation key broke it.

But when I am driving with Toon A...
Toons A, B, D and E move as configured.
And Toon C continues to auto follow Toon A, unless follow was broken for all toons before using the spread out key.






So the goal was, the active character does not move.
While the other four do.

With more then a little help from Lax (superb support), this is what I've come up with:


1. Create four Spread-Out (Action Target Groups).
- Group A
- Group B
- Group C
- Group D


2. Create a Spread-Out (Mapped Key).
- Group A... moves NW (or Forward).
- Group B... moves NE (or Strafe's Left).
- Group C... moves SW (or Strafe's Right).
- Group D... moves SE (or moves Backwards).


3. Under Control Keymaps, create 5 mapped keys.
- Slot 1 is Leader
- Slot 2 is Leader
- Slot 3 is Leader
- Slot 4 is Leader
- Slot 5 is Leader

Each of these has one Step, which does:
a) Do Mapped Key Action - Follow/JambaMaster (My normal on switch activity occurs).
b) Have every Slot leave all my Spread Out - Action Target Groups (Group A, Group B, Group C and Group D).
c) Have the other Slots join their respective Spread Out - Action Target Group.

I use the "Target Group Action", to have a Slot join or leave an Action Target Group.


4. My groups will be assigned like this:

When I switch to Slot 1:
- Slot 2 joins Group A
- Slot 3 joins Group B
- Slot 4 joins Group C
- Slot 5 joins Group D

When I switch to Slot 2:
- Slot 1 joins Group A
- Slot 3 joins Group B
- Slot 4 joins Group C
- Slot 5 joins Group D

When I switch to Slot 3:
- Slot 1 joins Group A
- Slot 2 joins Group B
- Slot 4 joins Group C
- Slot 5 joins Group D

When I switch to Slot 4:
- Slot 1 joins Group A
- Slot 2 joins Group B
- Slot 3 joins Group C
- Slot 5 joins Group D

When I switch to Slot 5:
- Slot 1 joins Group A
- Slot 2 joins Group B
- Slot 3 joins Group C
- Slot 4 joins Group D

Which means:
The Slot 1 character is either in No Group or Group A.
The Slot 2 character is either in No Group, Group A or Group B.
The Slot 3 character is either in No Group, Group B or Group C.
The Slot 4 character is either in No Group, Group C or Group D.
The Slot 5 character is either in No Group, or Group D.

Therefore, in the (b) action of my five Control Mapped Keys, I remove:
- Slot 1 from Group A.
- Slot 2 from Group A and Group B.
- Slot 3 from Group B and Group C.
- Slot 4 from Group C and Group D.
- Slot 5 from Group D.

And in the (c) action of my five Control Mapped Keys, each Slot is assigned a group as displayed immediately above.


5. Finally, I navigate through each Character Set, and change the action.

From: When I switch to this character -- Do this Mapped Key: Control - Follow/JambaMaster
To: When I switch to this character -- Do this Mapped Key: Control - Slot X is Leader.
(Naturally substituting X for the Slot the character is in).

End Result:

I switch to a Toon, in Slot 2 for example.
I have assigned the "Slot 2 is Leader" Mapped Key to occur when this toon becomes leader.
This mapped key does the Control - Follow/JambaMaster mapped key.
It then removes:
- Slot 1 from Group A.
- Slot 2 from Group A.
- Slot 2 from Group B.
- Slot 3 from Group B.
- Slot 3 from Group C.
- Slot 4 from Group C.
- Slot 4 from Group D.
- Slot 5 from Group D.
It then adds:
- Slot 1 to Group A.
- Slot 3 to Group B.
- Slot 4 to Group C.
- Slot 5 to Group D.

Now when I press my Spread-Out mapped key...

Slot 2 is the active character, and thus not in Groups A, B, C or D.
Therefore the Slot 2 toon does not move.
And each of the other toons is in only one group.
Therefore each moves in a different direction, as configured by the Spread Out mapped key.

This could easily be adapted for other formations too.

[thmsn]

Nice post, I knew Dynamic formations based on the leader where possible :)

[pinotnoir]

ualaa I have everything setup but I have some confusion on section 2. I made a new keymap called Dynamic Formation. The mapped keys have the group a b c d movements like you said. What I did in addition to your section 2 guild because I didnt know where my formation hot key should be created was set the new mapped key hotkey to shift +f. Then I copied my character set to it. These two steps were not in the guide. I am a novice at this program. According to the guide I need a key to call the formations so I figured thats where it went. Let me know if this is correct. Right now it's not working. I am going to try and remove the character set out and see what that does.

[Ualaa]

I put the Slot X is leader, in the Control Keymaps.
And have the Spread Out - Mapped Key (which moves Groups as the target) in General Keymaps.

That way, it should apply to every toon on any team.

For your spread out mapped key, you will need to set the option (in the drop down box immediately below the Hotkey field), "Hold any Keystroke Actions while Hotkey is held" to "On".

The hotkey you use to initiate the movement should not matter, as long as it does not conflict with an existing IS Boxer or Warcraft mapped key.

[Bettysue]

Not to jack the thread but this got me thinking about how to do this in other software solutions, here's what I came up with for HKN, of course you will need to make the send labels and assign WoW window tiles, then assign the WASD keys in WoW on each toon. They all get the same setting for this to work. W=forward ASD= strafe left, back, strafe right respectively.

This makes the cross when pressing "Q":

<MovementHotkey Q>

<If ActiveWinIs WoW1>
<SendLabel w2> <Key A>
<SendLabel w3> <Key D>
<SendLabel w4> <Key W>
<SendLabel w5> <Key S>

<Else If ActiveWinIs WoW2>
<SendLabel w1> <Key A>
<SendLabel w3> <Key D>
<SendLabel w4> <Key W>
<SendLabel w5> <Key S>

<Else If ActiveWinIs WoW3>
<SendLabel w1> <Key A>
<SendLabel w2> <Key D>
<SendLabel w4> <Key W>
<SendLabel w5> <Key S>

<Else If ActiveWinIs WoW4>
<SendLabel w1> <Key A>
<SendLabel w2> <Key D>
<SendLabel w3> <Key W>
<SendLabel w5> <Key S>

<Else If ActiveWinIs WoW5>
<SendLabel w1> <Key A>
<SendLabel w2> <Key D>
<SendLabel w3> <Key W>
<SendLabel w4> <Key S>and this makes the line formation with the current leader/master slighty ahead of the followers when pressing "W" twice:

<MovementHotkey W>
<Toggle>
<If ActiveWinIs WoW1>
<SendLabel w2> <Key A>
<SendLabel w3> <Key D>
<SendLabel w4> <Key A>
<SendLabel w5> <Key D>
<Else If ActiveWinIs WoW2>
<SendLabel w1> <Key A>
<SendLabel w3> <Key D>
<SendLabel w4> <Key A>
<SendLabel w5> <Key D>
<Else If ActiveWinIs WoW3>
<SendLabel w1> <Key A>
<SendLabel w2> <Key D>
<SendLabel w4> <Key A>
<SendLabel w5> <Key D>
<Else If ActiveWinIs WoW4>
<SendLabel w1> <Key A>
<SendLabel w2> <Key D>
<SendLabel w3> <Key A>
<SendLabel w5> <Key D>
<Else If ActiveWinIs WoW5>
<SendLabel w1> <Key A>
<SendLabel w2> <Key D>
<SendLabel w3> <Key A>
<SendLabel w4> <Key D>
<Toggle>
<If ActiveWinIs WoW1>
<SendLabel w4> <Key A>
<SendLabel w5> <Key D>
<Else If ActiveWinIs WoW2>
<SendLabel w4> <Key A>
<SendLabel w5> <Key D>
<Else If ActiveWinIs WoW3>
<SendLabel w4> <Key A>
<SendLabel w5> <Key D>
<Else If ActiveWinIs WoW4>
<SendLabel w3> <Key A>
<SendLabel w5> <Key D>
<Else If ActiveWinIs WoW5>
<SendLabel w3> <Key A>
<SendLabel w4> <Key D>

Thanks for your work figuring it out in IS/ISB, I've been working on getting it done for a while.

[pinotnoir]

I thought I had everything setup correctly but I cannot get it to work. Do you drag each of your characters to all the action target groups? Right now my action target groups have no characters in them. I think I have everything else setup exactly how you listed.

[Ualaa]

Well.. tried to paste on the pastebin site, but every time I paste it, Firefox stops responding.
Have used pastebin in the past, for help troubleshooting my own configuration.



My movement ATG's do not have any toons in them, at start up.
As in, they are all empty in the IS Boxer Toolkit.
They are:
- Move NW
- Move NE
- Move SW
- Move SE

My Dynamic Spread-Out mapped key is bound to Shift Tilde; this is in the General Keymaps.
Holy Any Keystroke Actions while Hotkey is Held is set to On.
It is one step, sending:
- W + Q to my NW group.
- W + E to my NE group.
- S + E to my SE group.
- S + Q to my SW group.

My switch key is in the Control Keymaps.
I have a melee and a caster version, but that shouldn't make any difference as both use dynamic formations.
All casters who are in Slot 1, execute this mapped key on a switch (instead of Follow/JambaMaster).
Slot 1 is Leader (Caster)
Has no hotkey, and one Step only. All options on the hotkey screen are at default settings.
Step 1 does:
- Do Follow/JambaMaster in Control Key Map -> Self
- Leave Group 'Move NW' -> Character Slot: 1
- Leave Group 'Move NW' -> Character Slot: 2
- Leave Group 'Move NE' -> Character Slot: 2
- Leave Group 'Move NE' -> Character Slot: 3
- Leave Group 'Move SE' -> Character Slot: 3
- Leave Group 'Move SE' -> Character Slot: 4
- Leave Group 'Move SW' -> Character Slot: 4
- Leave Group 'Move SW' -> Character Slot: 5
- Join Group 'Move NW' -> Character Slot: 2
- Join Group 'Move NE' -> Character Slot: 3
- Join Group 'Move SW' -> Character: Slot 4
- Join Group 'Move SE' -> Character: Slot 5

The only difference between my Caster/Melee versions is...
- Caster does Follow/JambaMaster... which runs my 'CTM On' mapped key -> All Other and 'CTM Off' mapped key -> Self
- Melee does JambaMaster... which runs 'CTM On' mapped key -> All Windows.

[daanji]

I'm currently having issues setting this up as well.

I'm stuck on step #2 as the above poster.

I am creating a mapped key ( up arrow in my case) and I am doing 1 step. In that one step, I want it to send the correct keys to each target action group.

However, the groups do not appear in the drop down list. I tried typing them in manually, but it won't let me. If I add toons to the Group A, B, C, or D they will then appear. I shouldn't have to do this right? Perhaps it doesn't matter.

I'll try it with this and see what happens.

[daanji]

Ok, I got this to work.

Basically, I had to add all the toons for each action group for it to show up and accept the action target group for the up-arrow keybind.

Then for my keymapp SLot X is Leader, I just had all the members leave the group and join the correct ones as needed.

Thanks Ualaa, this method is far superior than the static method.


Is there a list of good group formations somewhere? Some for fun or otherwise?

[daanji]

Ok, so another issue.

I have the dynamic formations to work fine. However, as soon I stop pressing the formation button, the just follow the leader again.

So I jamba /follow strobe toggle. So before I do the formation, I turn off strobing. This worked fine...until I switched leaders.

Once I switch leaders and renabled strobing, it seems as though the group is confused on who the leader is.

For example, I'm on toon one. I want to spread out. So I disable strobing. I hit my formation key and the toon spread out and stay put like I want. I then switch to toon #3, at which point strobing should be reenable and everyone should follow #3.

But this doesn't seem to work.

[Ualaa]

Normally, when you switch leaders, it runs a mapped key (or sends a Keybind to all windows).
In your case the mapped key it used to run turns on follow or strobe follow.

You need to change from Follow/JambaMaster or Strobe/JambaMaster on a switch to:
- Slot 1 is Leader
- Slot 2 is Leader
- Slot 3 is Leader
- Slot 4 is Leader
- Slot 5 is Leader

Each toon (determined by their slot) runs one of these mapped keys, when they become the leader.
The mapped key, in addition to the formation stuff, runs a mapped key.

Change it, so the mapped key it runs is JambaMaster, and not one of the auto follow Jamba options.




TLDR:
You have either follow or strobe follow, auto-enabling on a switch.

You need to change this so no follow action is done on a switch.

[daanji]

Thanks Ualaa, that was it and my noobishness.

Decided I'd given ISBoxer a good try this weekend and loving it so far.( I used you as a referral and bought a 1-year subscription)

I have IWT implemented and its hilarious. I can send my alts to IWT with a player or a mob and they'll just dance circles around it and stab it to death. Makes me want to roll a melee group now for wicked fun.

I'm think that would be handle for nasty rogues that get in my group. Just run circles around em, they'll never hit me while I stab / flame shock / thunderstorm / magma / nova them to death.


The next thing I'm working on is to get my dynamic formation group to toggle strobing on / off. I fiddled around with it but haven't made it work the way I want to.

Basically I want to hit and hold-down my up-arrow key once, which will disable strobing and do the formation. Strobing will be disabled until press up-arrow again.

I have a version of it working, but it requires me to press the key multiple times.


Perhaps I should just go strobeless and put follow on a keybind. Is that what most people do, especially for arena?

I really like strobe, as I don't have to think about hitting my follow key anymore, but at the same time its a pain.

[Maxion]

Having follow on a convenient keybind it becomes second nature, muscle memory and all that, so you don't even think about doing it eventually, it just works the way you want it to.

[Ualaa]

For the longest time, I used strobe.
But Jamba had that bug for a while, where you would start to follow a previous leader when in combat.

At that point, I took strobe out of the set up.
And bound normal follow to a mouse thumb button.
I had to regroup a few times, while I got used to this change.
But it is second nature now... muscle memory is a good term.

[Chowdog]

Any chance this will be added to isboxer by default? I keep reading over it and it's like a diff language atm.. lol, it took me 6 hours to get my click box to work correctly while sitting in chat trying to get help.

Im just afraid I am going to mess something up again like last time.

[Ualaa]

What is added is up to Lax.

This is pretty basic, at least fundamentally.
a) Create an Action Target Group (ATG), one group for each of the directions you want toons to move.
b) Create a Spread-Out/Formation mapped key, with those ATG's as the targets.
c) Create Slot-Specific mapped keys, which place toons in the ATG's on a switch.

Implementation is a bit harder, but isn't too hard.
You can backup your configuration, and load the backup if anything undesireable occurs.

For a formation or movement, you need to figure out which groups a given slot can be in.
And then remove every slot from any group it can be in, in the Slot-Specific switch keys.
And then add the other toons to the ATG's, but not the active toon on each switch mapped key.
Then just run the switch mapped key, instead of the default (under character sets).



For Example: 3-Box V shape
Since two toons move, while one remains stationary, we need two movement ATG's, G1 & G2.



The dynamic movement key:
- Sends 'S' or down arrow, to G1 and G2.
- Sends 'Q' to G1.
- Sends 'E' to G2.
- Needs to be set, 'Hold keystroke actions while key is held' to 'On'.



And the Logic:
When toon A leads:
- Toon B, Group 1.
- Toon C, Group 2.

When toon B leads:
- Toon A, Group 1.
- Toon C, Group 2.

When toon C leads:
- Toon A, Group 1.
- Toon B, Group 2.

Therefore, A will only ever be in Group 1, B can be in Group 1 or Group 2, and C is only ever in group 2.

The mapped key A runs, when it becomes leader:
- Removes A from G1, Removes B from G1, Removes B from G2, Removes C from G2.
- Places B in G1, Places C in G2.

The mapped key B runs, when it becomes leader:
- Removes A from G1, Removes B from G1, Removes B from G2, Removes C from G2.
- Places A in G1, Places C in G2.

The mapped key C runs, when it becomes leader:
- Removes A from G1, Removes B from G1, Removes B from G2, Removes C from G2.
- Places A in G1, Places B in G2.

In addition to the dynamic groups, the mapped key will run the JambaMaster, for group master updates.
You do not want it to run, JambaFollow or JambaStrobe, since those will break the formation.



You could easily adapt this for a 5-toon formation.
I'd probably go with the dynamic groups, as set up in the initial post.
All that changes is the movement or formation mapped key, depending on which Slots you want to move, and where you want to move them.

[daanji]

Maybe this has already bee discussed before, but I came up with some something useful.

I wanted my slaves to do IWT to turn to the mob / opponent but stay at their current location.

So I create a new keymap with two actions.

On the first step, it does IWT. On the second step it does the "s" or backwards key.

The keymap is set to "Do step on key press and key release"


By doing this, I can hit my keybind (which is Mouse 5 and my Follow/Jamba master is on Mouse 4 ) and make all the slaves face the opponents and stay still. Very very handy.

Moreover, if I want the slaves to move toward the opponent, I just delay releasing the button. Once I release, they stop immediately.

I found this to be extremely useful in heroics and PvP where some times the slaves get turned the wrong way.


By having this new function bound to Mouse 5 and Follow/JambaMaster bound to Mouse 5, I can easily control the movement and actions of my slaves.


I also have the dynamic formations setup on my arrow keys along with group strafe left and group strafe right. Overall, this is turning out to be very effective.

[Erron]

Ualaa - this is perfect for my needs also, thank you so much for sharing. I really want to add this to my setup.

Here's the issue: The way you laid it out makes perfect sense, but being new to Innerspace I am having a really hard time translating your outline into the actual code from ISBoxer toolkit. I am just staring at the interface in Toolkit, getting totally lost.

Is there any way you'd be willing to post some code snippets or possibly some screen shots that would help newbs such as me?

If not, it's cool, with a little more experience and more study into your posts, I am sure I will get it.

-and- secondly: Multi-computer setup here, any thoughts if this would be doable with that kind of configuration? It relies on Character Sets running on each PC versus one Character Set with slots on a single PC.

[Lax]

The difference when using multiple PCs is that you can't put it on the window switch functionality because there's no window switching.

You can still get the same thing, though. For example, you can make "slots" out of Action Target Groups just by placing one Character from each Set in an ATG to signify each slot. Call them "slot1" "slot2" and so on, then put your guy from PC1 in the slot1 group, the guy from PC2 in the slot2 group, etc. Then you can have exactly what Ualaa described, except that your "x toon is master" mappings need hotkeys, and instead of selecting "Slot:1" you use the equivalent groups. Technically only one hotkey is needed, but it's easier to set it up by putting a different hotkey on each of those keys.

To set it up for single hotkey, the trick is to use a virtual mapped key. You'd create a Mapped Key with the hotkey, which just has a Do Mapped Key Action. This Do Mapped Key Action would perform a virtual mapped key, with the Target being Window:Current (self). The virtual mapped key itself is just another mapped key with nothing required (no hotkey, no actions), but you could add a Popup Text Action to it in case you forget to virtualize it for some character, then you could get a visual warning. Then you go to each of your Characters and click on Virtual Mapped Keys, and set it up so that the two boxes there for your virtual mapping read something like this: "virtual i am leader" is now "slot1 is master" (where the first one is your empty mapped key, and the second one is the individual master change used by that toon). When you press the Hotkey, it's going to read that and perform "slot1 is master" if you're on that guy, "slot2 is master" if you're on the next guy, and so on. Same hotkey on all.

Similarly, for people who play on 1 PC, the virtualized mapped key can be used for all Slots in your Character Set instead of selecting the slot 1 master, slot 2 master, slot 3 master, etc individually per Slot.

[emps]

My Dynamic Spread-Out mapped key is bound to Shift Tilde; this is in the General Keymaps.
Holy Any Keystroke Actions while Hotkey is Held is set to On.
It is one step, sending:
- W + Q to my NW group.
- W + E to my NE group.
- S + E to my SE group.
- S + Q to my SW group.



Does this mean keystrokes "W" and "Q" are sent to the NW group simultaneously (so the character moves diagonal) at a press of shift+tilde? This pretty much applies to the rest of the groups. Technically, is this a square formation (instead of diamond)?

[Ualaa]

Correct, Emps.

All I really care about, is that the toons spread out when needed.
But having them in separate ATG's, can be adapted to any formation you desire.
If need be, you could have the active toon join a 5th group, if you wanted all five toons to move.





Slats pointed out, in the ISBoxer forums...

My 3b step, where each toon leaves each of the groups, could be accomplished via a Mapped Key.
Instead of removing:
- Slot 1 from Group A.
- Slot 2 from Group A.
- Slot 2 from Group B.
- Slot 3 from Group B.
- Slot 3 from Group C.
- Slot 4 from Group C.
- Slot 4 from Group D.
- Slot 5 from Group D.

We can create a Mapped Key for this. Call it whatever (Leave Dynamic Groups, maybe).
So the 3b Step would be, Do Mapped Key Action - Keymap: General, Mapped Key: Leave Dynamic Groups, Target: All Windows.

And then the Mapped Key would be:
- Name: Leave Dynamic Groups
- No Hotkey.
One Step.
- New Target Group Action: Target - All of Group A; Action - Leave Group A.
- New Target Group Action: Target - All of Group B; Action - Leave Group B.
- New Target Group Action: Target - All of Group C; Action - Leave Group C.
- New Target Group Action: Target - All of Group D; Action - Leave Group D.

[emps]

Thanks Ualaa. I am digging ATGs quite a bit and kinda drawing out what I want but still not very keen to it at this point. It'll get better though. Was just wondering how the client will react with both "w" + "q" pressed down with shift+~. I guess I have to try it out when I get home. Thanks again!

[Ualaa]

It works the same, from IS Boxer pressing it, as it does holding both keys at once without IS Boxer.

You just want to make sure the drop down box, beneath the hotkey selection window, is set to "on" for Hold Keystroke Actions while key is held. That way, you can hold Shift ~ (or whatever your hotkey is, for the formation you are doing), and the toons will continue to move in the defined directions, until you release the key.

[emps]

My 3b step, where each toon leaves each of the groups, could be accomplished via a Mapped Key.
Instead of removing:
- Slot 1 from Group A.
- Slot 2 from Group A.
- Slot 2 from Group B.
- Slot 3 from Group B.
- Slot 3 from Group C.
- Slot 4 from Group C.
- Slot 4 from Group D.
- Slot 5 from Group D.

We can create a Mapped Key for this. Call it whatever (Leave Dynamic Groups, maybe).
So the 3b Step would be, Do Mapped Key Action - Keymap: General, Mapped Key: Leave Dynamic Groups, Target: All Windows.

And then the Mapped Key would be:
- Name: Leave Dynamic Groups
- No Hotkey.
One Step.
- New Target Group Action: Target - All of Group A; Action - Leave Group A.
- New Target Group Action: Target - All of Group B; Action - Leave Group B.
- New Target Group Action: Target - All of Group C; Action - Leave Group C.
- New Target Group Action: Target - All of Group D; Action - Leave Group D.

Hrm. I tried cleaning up the control mapped keys by doing exactly as you've directed above. It didn't work for me. My characters didn't move a bit. Not quite sure why when the new mapped key is called above the "joins". i've checked it a few times and backed it in/out to no avail. so i went back and did it the long way. Was even able to squeeze in a line-formation in addition to the box formation. i think my control mapped key ended up having close to 30 actions each (with all the "leaves" and "joins").. it's convuluted but it works for now. Thanks again for the help Ualaa.

[Ualaa]

I'm using the multiple leave/join version, as it works.

But Slats did point out, you could accomplish this with a mapped key, so I thought I would share that.
If I was doing it from scratch, I'd go with the mapped key route, to empty the dynamic ATG's.

But... the longer version works, and if it's not broken, it doesn't need to be fixed.