Unofficial Mojo FAQ

[Moorea]

So people don't have to dig up pages and pages of threads I'll try to capture here some current FAQ (things that hit me - feel free to ask more Questions and suggest more Answers)

Meta Questions


What is Mojo ?


A new open source multi boxing software built from the experience of HotKeyNet and HKN2 by Freddie - learn more on http://mojoware.org/



Where can I get it ?


http://mojoware.org/p/download.html



Is it ready/usable ?

It's early alpha - feel free to try and give feedback and see it being built and change before your eyes, but it's not quite ready yet to replace HKN or other mature software. it's getting real close and some already use it - so very soon it will (like when broadcast exclusion is implemented) !



Open source ? where can I get the source ?

http://code.google.com/p/mojoware/source/checkout
You can use Microsoft VC Ultimate 10 beta 2 to build it (Moorea does regularly - see "Bulding from source (http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?t=26968)" thread)
For now nobody but Freddie can contribute to the project but you could always clone it if you feel development isn't going fast enough or in the direction you like (if you do you must respect the GPL3 license and redistribute any change you make) - but try to work with the author first !



Is Mojo abandoned ?

No, there is just a small pause in the frantic pace of early initial releases; while the author recharges... stay tuned...


Usage Question



I started it and then what ?

If you have more than 1 computer, start it on more than one; you can then set up KM (Key and mouse control; ie drive several computer from one) by connecting the monitors so they touch in the mouseover settings menu



Does it work on multiple PCs ?

Yes ! It can discover other Mojo copies on the same flat network - later it will even work for more complex cases, in the meantime you can use the advanced connection options or ask for help if you have a problem connecting



I can only afford 1 computer you insensitive clot - am I out of luck ?

Mojo works fine with a single computer too - start more than 1 wow and enjoy window key broadcasting



How do you pause broadcasting without having to click anywhere ?

Open the "Predefined hotkeys" settings menu, click the "Set" button in "Toggle window broadcast"



What's the "Toons" / "Teams" / "Computer broadcast" buttons for ? nothing happens when I click, nothing happens when I load wow... it's always empty ...

Several features are not implemented yet... patience my friend !



What does "Computer broadcast" mean ?

When/if implemented it will be an hardware KVM emulation mode (as opposed to specific windows broadcast)



Hmm cool it broadcasts everything... but ahem... how do I tell it to not broadcast WASD so I can move just the main toon ?

Do Not Pass not yet implemented - I suppose you could unbind WASD on the slaves but... wait for the next builds - vote for that feature :-)



Does Mojo work with something else than WoW

It will, for now Freddie is trying to make WoW boxing as easy and simple out of the box as possible; but eventually all the features thought about for the general purpose HKN2 will be in mojo and more - mojo will be usable for a variety of purposes, including more than gaming.



I loved the power of HotKeyNet (HKN) scripting - will Mojo be scriptable ?

Yes it will - borrowing from HKN2 ideas for a cleaner scripting language - stay tuned (as it's not in yet) - see next post for other upcoming features



Where does mojo store settings ? I want to start fresh

del %localappdata%\mojo



When I move my mouse to another window the keystrokes don't follow

Go to "Active window tracking" and turn it on


Something isn't working...

Remember this is very early, so it's normal that many features are unfinished or have small issues. This being said, for now, please report it in the build thread matching the current build (or a new post). Soon (well... maybe...) there should be a issue tracker somewhere so people don't report redundant issues and can track progress of their particular issue but it's not here yet. In the meantime you can also eyeball my own list in post#3 below.


I have another question not answered or I don't understand one of the answers...

Ask in this thread



My Mojo isn't like your Mojo - This FAQ doesn't compute

Hmmm maybe you got a newer build and Moorea didn't get a chance to update the FAQ yet - bug him (private msg or email) - if all else fails - ask Fur or Svper to shard the thread ;-)

This FAQ is uptodate as of build 21

[Moorea]

Requested / Upcoming Feature List
(Thanks Fursphere for initial compilation)


Do Not Pass list (with a better more intuitive name but using DNP for now as it's understood)
Mouse clicks broadcasting
Maximizer (likewise for name)
WoW Launching (goes with maximizer I guess)
Status feedback overlay (change of mode showing up over fullscreen wow windows, using semi transparent window like widgets for instance)
Keymaps and configurable Round robin (ie more advanced version of 1.)
Auto-start on Win start checkbox. (find a way to eliminate UAC popup, InputDirector for instance does it; with Vista and Win7)
Add Apply buttons to every dialog or at least dialogs where the user would want to experiment/try settings like the focus follow mouse delay setting
Hide window to the taskbar. (Waiting on Mojo Icon)
Hotkey assignment text output (ability to script things instead of GUI)
Scripting
option to consume or not a given trigger (let it pass to the OS/focus window or consume it - default is to consume - this came up in the numlock bug but isn't limited to numlock)
Set a PC not to receive incoming (as opposed to the existing mode buttons and hotkeys which all affect outgoing).
Triggers need to be finished. They don't yet include an option for "trigger when key is released" and "allow or disallow typematic presses to trigger this hotkey."
Option to wrap the screens for mouseover (need a better name for that feature too) and/or add a same screen more than once
Make focus follow mouse the default
Repeater regions (clicks in one window part actually go to some other window) - useful for healbot mapping

Completed Requests:


I would like a "Return cursor back home" key - Build 14
Broadcasting toggle switch - done bulid 16
Broadcast window and mouseover at the same time. done build 18
Re-enable WoW window and finish the code that tracks scheduled and running WoWs. Build 18
Focus follow mouse mode. Build 19 and 20 (auto raise bonus UI too!)

Requests that have been shelved for various reasons


Installer option in mojo.setup to pick where to install.
Macintosh support (!) -- seems unlikely but if a mac guru wants to contribute that'd be awesome (need a mac programmer)
iPhone mojo ! support driving my PCs from my iPhone - would be cool if maybe unpractical

[Moorea]

Moorea's personal list of open issues

(things that hit me for which there isn't yet a good answer - remember Mojo is just starting, issues are normal!)

'Bugs'

multi screen not at scale on other computers

home hotkey in mouseover dialog

setting ctrl-home as bring home key leaves ctrl 'stuck' on other computers

with ICS mojo doesn't see the computer, should try all the IPs instead of 1 (workaround is to manually set IP in advanced settings)

editable text fields that aren't actually typable (for hotkey settings)


Other (design,,,) issues

Need 2 sockets of opposite directions; should work with only 1 (or maybe 2 like ftp passive rather than force both mojo of a peer pair to be both a tcp server and client)

yellow screen labeled "purple"

state based on/off (ie numlock or scrolllock)

disabled buttons (like "computer broadcast")


Moorea's testing 'todo':

IPv6 (probably not working looking at the v4 specific stuff in the code)

Win TCP Client -> Server faster than Server -> Client

[Freddie]

So people don't have to dig up pages and pages of threads I'll try to capture here some current FAQ ...
I think it's great that you're doing this. Thanks a lot!


It's a bug^h^h^hfeature that all the screens start stacked up and so if your other computer screen is smaller you won't see it, drag away to discover the other one (until freddie fixes^h^h^hchanges this ;-) )
Thanks for catching that, I'll change it.


How do you pause broadcasting without having to click anywhere ?
You'll be able to do it soon. You can't do it in the current build (10) because I haven't implemented hotkeys yet.

I spent 14 hours today writing new code for hotkeys. I'm not reusing stuff from my earlier programs. Mojo's new hotkeys have none of the limitations of HotkeyNet. They can have unlimited numbers of keys, they can consist of "chords" of regular keys with no need to declare the regular keys as modifiers, they can end with modifiers, they can consist of a single modifier, etc.


* What's the "Toons" button for ? nothing happens when I click, nothing happens when I load wow... it's always empty ...
Folks, this is an alpha test. I'm writing a brand new program and posting builds almost daily as I make them. You're seeing stuff as it gets made. I just began to make the Toons window.

Imagine you're watching me build a house. I"m pouring the foundation. I'm starting to nail the framing. But there's no plumbing, no sheetrock, no roof yet.

Asking why the Toons window doesn't do anything yet is like watching a bunch of guys pour concrete for a house foundation and asking them why the kitchen stove doesn't work.


* Hmm cool it broadcasts everything... but ahem... how do I tell it to not broadcast WASD so I can move just the main toon ?
Once again, you're watching me write the program. It's exactly 38 days old. I started writing it on November 3. (Er, make that 41 days. Time flies when you're having fun.) That's not a lot of time to write a program of this size and complexity.

There are many, many, many features that will be added.

[Moorea]

I was trying to be humorous about some of the normal and to be expected problems (but not sure that came across) - pretending in the questions to be a noob user - also near the beginning:

* Is it ready/usable

It's very early alpha - feel free to try and give feedback but it's not quite ready yet to replace HKN or other mature software

was also another way to say that obviously there are things not finished !

and it is great to get to see it as it gets built; it's not a problem, it's a privileged ! I enjoy it!

[Freddie]

I was trying to be humorous about some of the normal and to be expected problems (but not sure that came across) - pretending in the questions to be a noob user - also near the beginning:
I guess I missed the joke. It's not the first time. :)


and it is great to get to see it as it gets built; it's not a problem, it's a privileged ! I enjoy it!
Another way to look at it is, here's an oppportunity to see somebody walk a rope without a net and possibly fall on his face! :)

[Mystraine]

Love ya freddie this is shaping up too be one of the best boxing progs. im keeping and eye on ur progress cause its facinating me how the prog is made step by step Again Well Done ps Ust to be Mystrani i boxed 4 shammys and pally 3 hunters on feathermoon.\ If ya wondering who i was

[Freddie]

Love ya freddie this is shaping up too be one of the best boxing progs
Thanks for the encouragement. I appreciate it a lot. :)


. im keeping and eye on ur progress cause its facinating me how the prog is made step by step Again
Glad to hear it. A lot of stuff that I'll show will be rough because I'm not sure how to design it. It's like showing people a rough sketch and asking, "How do you think this can be improved?"

I'm hoping people will keep suggesting improvements and I'll keep making changes. Back and forth we'll go, me making builds and testers making suggestions, and eventually the program will be great.

[Moorea]

added build# to faq - any other question you guys think should be captured/will hit new testers?

[Fursphere]

Does Mojo support multiple PCs?

[Freddie]

Yes.

[Fursphere]

Cool, I might be checking it out soon. :)

[rocnroll]

Freddie, did you add the option to shard Fur's macros? Oh, I thought this was a PM! ;)

[Fursphere]

Freddie, did you add the option to shard Fur's macros? Oh, I thought this was a PM! ;)

I don't need a forum post to recreate my setup. ;)

[Moorea]

Does Mojo support multiple PCs?

Yup ! it's awesome at auto discovering PCs on your network - let me add that Q and A

[Freddie]

Mojo also auto discovers running WoWs. This probably won't be of use to people who choose to have Mojo launch their WoWs, but I put it in the program because it makes it possible to multibox with zero configuration. I like the idea of telling people:

"Here are the instructions. Go to Mojo's website. Click download. End of instructions."

:)

[Moorea]

Yes but I haz next build (with partial/full broadcast toggle (dnp)) ;-) ?

[Freddie]

The next build's going to have a lot of infrastructure (mostly invisible to the user) for configuration info about WoW instances, teams, toons, etc.

After that infrastructure is done it can be used to implement particular kinds of config info such as do-not-pass lists.

[Clanked]

Is it possible to select the video card for WoW to run on, like isBoxer?

[Freddie]

I don't know if Mojo will do that. I haven't thought about it.

[RonO]

Obvious non-WoW question:

Will it [eventually] work for controlling other non-WoW programs? I'm a big fan of HKN1 with the exception of the lack of threading that was planned for HKN2 (and probably a few other features of the new language), but I don't use it with WoW. I'm not worried about the auto-discovery stuff only working for WoW. Since it's open source, I could attempt to have it work with other software if I really felt a need.

If it's planned to support other software (I expect this is the case, but the FAQ doesn't cover that topic), I can't begin any testing with the software until it does. By that point, my guess is it would already have all the hotkey support fleshed out.

[Freddie]

Hotkeys and the script language will not be limited to WoW or any other particular target They will be general-purpose like HKN1 and HKN2. Everything that was planned for HKN2 will be in Mojo.

I'm not sure about the GUI. I'm planning to make the GUI work with WoW and then turn my attention to the script language and hotkeys.

[Moorea]

updated to reflect build 14 and recent answers (though I haven't tried 14 myself)

[Akoko]

Sorry if this is a really stupid question, but will Mojo have the ability for the user to create custom scripts like HotKeyNet? I really like having my WoW's launch automatically, log into to my B.net account, chose the separate accounts, and then choose the individual characters without me doing anything other than writing the script.

I swear I've read everything and I couldn't find an answer about this.

[Littleburst]

Mojo the icon is awesome, you should use it someway :P

[Freddie]

Sorry if this is a really stupid question, but will Mojo have the ability for the user to create custom scripts like HotKeyNet? I really like having my WoW's launch automatically, log into to my B.net account, chose the separate accounts, and then choose the individual characters without me doing anything other than writing the script.

You will be able to write scripts with Mojo. Mojo's script language will be more powerful and elegant than HKN1's language. Mojo will use the language from HKN2. Here are some articles about it.

http://www.hotkeynet.com/hkn2/ref/ref_index.html

http://www.hotkeynet.com/hkn2/ref/LanguageOverview.html

[Moorea]

Added the scripting Q&A - thx ! Keep the questions coming

[Freddie]

Mojo the icon is awesome, you should use it someway :P

It's a nice icon but Mojo is an independent program. It's not part of WoW or designed to work exclusively with WoW. I think Mojo should identify itself with its own icon, not something taken from WoW.

Also, I think that using this icon to identify Mojo would be a copyright violation.

[visman]

Hey Freddie!

I haven't talked to you in quite some time on your HotKeyNet site. I was doing a lot of the testing for you with the mouseover feature in HKN2.

I'm glad to see you finally made the leap to go Open Source with your project. I think the community at large will be a boon to the product's development.

When I last tested HKN2, only the mouseover feature was implemented (no hotkeys/scripting/etc.). I see based on the discussions here that those are indeed coming soon. I did, however, read someone stating that the movement keys (WASD) are in. Is that correct?

If so, based on earlier discussions of ours pertaining to movement in Lord of the Rings Online (LotRO), did you modify how you hook into those keys? In case you don't recall, the engine for LotRO was not accepting the passed movement keys as repeatable and would only trigger the key as if pressed and immediately released once.

If you've indeed tackled that issue (which was the only one I've ever had), I will make it known across the lands that you are "Freddie, Premiere Purveyor of Multi-boxing". ;)

For my six+ months of multi-boxing in LotRO, the only problem I've had has been the lack of ability to move my toons in unison. I get by alright on PvE, but in high-contact areas typically encountered in PvP, using /follow as a tactic is equivalent to just layign down and hoping the opponents do not see you.

I'm looking forward to your response and the future joy that Mojo will bring to the table...er...desktop.

I'm about to head out of town and won't be able to do any testing before my return on Tuesday--just wanted to touch base and let you know I'm back in the loop.

VisMan

[Freddie]

I'm glad to see you finally made the leap to go Open Source with your project. I think the community at large will be a boon to the product's development.
I'm sure it will. :)

Before I answer your question, let me clarify something. Movement keys like WASD can be sent in mouseover mode. A person can mouse over to a remote PC, press W on the local keyboard, and the remote toon will move.

That's implemented in Mojo now and I would expect it to work with LOTRO, although I haven't tested.

Mojo will have three additional modes. Only one of them (broadcast to windows) has been implemented so far and in the current build, it only works with WoW. Movement keys can be sent in that mode to WoW but not to any other programs.

HotkeyNet has changed somewhat since we talked about LOTRO but I haven't tested the changes with LOTRO. I doubt HotkeyNet works any differently with LOTRO but since I haven't tested, I can't say for sure.

Have a great trip! :)

[Fursphere]

What is the scope / timeline for do-not-pass / keymaps in Mojo Freddie?

[Freddie]

Right now I'm finishing the code that allows the program to keep track of which WoW is which.

As for timeilne, I haven't decided what to do next. You seem to be the only person who's actually using the program, so you tell me. What do you want next?

As for scope, I figure I'll keep adding features that people ask for.

I'm planning to let the design evolve through a back-and-forth process with users so I don't have a fixed idea about how it will turn out.

[Fursphere]

Well, if i'm the only one, I guess I should start testing same-box multiboxing as well, at least in a limited scope. (I'll get on that this weekend - hehe)

For me personally, my wishlist would be in this priority

1) Hotkey for toggling broadcasting on and off. Mousing over to the button is easy enough since I've got mojo on my second monitor, but if it was in the background, it would be a PITA.
2) Keymaps - at least in a basic form. Like a "do not pass" list or something - I'm playing toons solo more and more these days, and having to constantly bind and unbind movement keys it driving me nuts. :D
3) Mojo disconnect option. Sure, I can CLOSE mojo right now to kill broadcasting to that PC, but it would be nice if I could do it from within mojo so "stop accepting inputs from another mojo" type of this.

I'm use Input Director for my software KVM solution - so the "mouse over" features of mojo are very low on my personal priority list - in fact, they are no needed at all for "single PC" multiboxers.

[Freddie]

Well, if i'm the only one, I guess I should start testing same-box multiboxing as well, at least in a limited scope. (I'll get on that this weekend - hehe)
Thanks but I don't think you have to go out of your way to test stuff you're not using. As the program gets more complete, more people will use it and stuff will get tested.


For me personally, my wishlist would be in this priority

1) Hotkey for toggling broadcasting on and off....

Okay, I'll do that next after the WoW stuff that I'm finishing now. But I won't just add that single hotkey. I'll add a page of hotkeys that affect Mojo. Not sure what to call them. Built-in hotkeys? Hm, no, that makes it sound like you can't choose the key combos that trigger them.

I guess I'll include hotkeys for:

Toggle broadcast.
Toggle mouseover.
Bring cursor home from mouseover.
Toggle hotkeys.
Minimize Mojo to taskbar/restore to normal

What else?

[Freddie]

duplicate post.

[Akoko]

I'm just curious, how complicated is it to have a mouse cursor in each window? Of course I wouldn't be expecting a feature like this anytime soon.

Anyway, keep up the good work! I eagerly look forward to the next release of Mojo. I'll likely be using it as my main program once I can add scripts to it, instead of my current clumsy combo of multiple programs...

[Freddie]

I'm just curious, how complicated is it to have a mouse cursor in each window? Of course I wouldn't be expecting a feature like this anytime soon.

It's easy to make the program click in multiple windows simultaneously and Mojo will do that soon.

I'm planning to implement that without making the cursor visible in multiple windows. I don't know if there's an easy way to make it visible.

[Akoko]

It's easy to make the program click in multiple windows simultaneously and Mojo will do that soon.

I'm planning to implement that without making the cursor visible in multiple windows. I don't know if there's an easy way to make it visible.

Yeah, I guess not. The main problem I've been having with HKN broadcasting is if I accidentally hold down the mouse button or move very slightly it can severely mess up the views or change focus of one or all of my WoW windows, and sometimes the clicks don't pass reliably. Maybe it's just my script that isn't optimal, rather than HKN's system itself?

This is what I'm using:



<Hotkey Alt LButton, MButton, RButton, Button4, Button5>
<SendLabel w1, w2, w3>
<ClickMouse %TriggerMainKey%>


If the problem extends further than just my script, then I patiently await Mojo's mouse broadcasting :)

P.S. Would it be possible to have a feature that compensates for the existence of pet bars or totem bars somewhere down the line? I've noticed that all of my shaman's dialogue buttons such as Need/greed loot windows are higher up than those on my mages simply because of the totem castbar, meaning I have to click once for the shaman and then once for the mages.

[Fursphere]

I guess I'll include hotkeys for:

1) Toggle broadcast.
2) Toggle mouseover.
3) Bring cursor home from mouseover.
4) Toggle hotkeys.
5) Minimize Mojo to taskbar/restore to normal

What else?

1 - Yes plz.
2 - Yes plz.
3 - Input director does this and I RARELY use it. Could be handy though?
4 - Not sure what you mean here
5 - Don't think this is needed honestly.

[Freddie]

Yeah, I guess not. The main problem I've been having with HKN broadcasting is if I accidentally hold down the mouse button or move very slightly it can severely mess up the views or change focus of one or all of my WoW windows, and sometimes the clicks don't pass reliably. Maybe it's just my script that isn't optimal, rather than HKN's system itself?

This is what I'm using:



<Hotkey Alt LButton, MButton, RButton, Button4, Button5>
<SendLabel w1, w2, w3>
<ClickMouse %TriggerMainKey%>


The script is fine but it sounds like your settings and/or send modes are sub-optimal. Since I don't know your send modes and settings, I'm only guessing.

One of the problems with HotkeyNet is that it has so many options and alternative code paths that it's impossible to help a user without first asking him twenty questions.

Mojo is going to use a different method for injecting keystrokes and mouseclicks than the ones in HotkeyNet. The new code is already used in Mojo for key broadcasting. The new method is simpler, faster, and more reliable. It has no user-settable options so I will never have to ask anyone, "What are your settings?"


P.S. Would it be possible to have a feature that compensates for the existence of pet bars or totem bars somewhere down the line? I've noticed that all of my shaman's dialogue buttons such as Need/greed loot windows are higher up than those on my mages simply because of the totem castbar, meaning I have to click once for the shaman and then once for the mages.
I don't know very much about WoW so I'm going entirely by your description here, but it sounds like yes, this could be done. It could be done now with HotkeyNet too.

[Freddie]

Toggle hotkeys.


4 - Not sure what you mean here


Just like there's a toggle for mouseover mode and a toggle for broadcast mode, there will be a toggle for hotkey mode.

The toggle wil determine whether user-defined hotkeys get triggered when their key combos are pressed.

Hotkey mode is different from the hotkeys we're discussing here. The hotkeys in this thread have pre-defined actions that I'm building into the program. Hotkey mode is for hotkeys with actions that have been designed by the user.

[Fursphere]

I see. This must be where HotKeyNet gets integrated into Mojo?

[Freddie]

I see. This must be where HotKeyNet gets integrated into Mojo?
Yeah.

To be more exact, this is where the kinds of features that HotkeyNet has will be integrated. I'm not going to reuse HotkeyNet's code. The features will be redesigned and rewritten.

[Moorea]

Hey, I (and many more) would use Mojo if it had a few very basic features (already mentioned a few weeks back but I'll reiterate my wish list, in order of priority) :


- Do not pass list (WSAD...) mode but also keep "Broadcast all" mode + add missing pause mode - 3 modes key toggled with visual indication (movable semi transparent overlay would be nice)
- (Movement keys) [this actually is probably in already]
- Wow window resize move and unframe
- mouse broadcasting mode (ideally without actually moving the real mouse cursor in each window, yet sending all events - if wow was a drawing app it should be possible to draw on 1 and have same drawing on additional windows)

Nice to have

- cursor on all windows for preview of mouse broadcasting effect

[Freddie]

Hey, I (and many more) would use Mojo if it had a few very basic features) ...
I think so too. Pretty soon we'll cross a threshhold and suddenly the program will have a ton of users. I'm dreading it and looking forward to it at the same time.

I'm thinking we're in the calm before the storm -- enjoy it while it lasts. :)


- Do not pass list (WSAD...) mode ...
In order to do this I needed two other features to build on. (1) A system of storing config info and (2) a way for the program to keep track of individual WoWs. I wrote (1) in December during the long pause between builds and I'm writing (2) now. So pretty soon the program will have no-pass lists.

(I keep saying "keep track of WoWs" but what I really mean is launch WoWs and retain a way of targeting those known launched WoWs.)

I know you keep wanting me to put simple things in the program right away. I don't mind doing that if the simple code takes just a few minutes or if the simple code can grow, but in this case, if I write a quick-and-dirty no-pass system, it'll take a few days and then I'll have to throw the simple code away and replace it with new code, I'd rather just write the real code in the first place.


add missing pause mode - 3 modes key toggled with visual indication (movable semi transparent overlay would be nice)
I'm writing the hotkey-toggle stuff right now as a result of Fursphere's comments. By the way the program is going to have four modes, not three because Fursphere made me realize that broadcast-to-windows and broadcast-to-computers are separate important modes.

The overlay could be added easily but I don't know if that's the best use of my time at this early stage when so many core features need to be created.


- (Movement keys) [this actually is probably in already]
Broadcast mode can do movement keys. The underlying key-injection code is finished and it handles movement keys fine.


- Wow window resize move and unframe
This had to wait until the program can keep track of individual WoWs.
Also I want to make a really really nice graphical interface for PIP / maximizer / layout / whatever you call all that stuff generically.



- mouse broadcasting mode (ideally without actually moving the real mouse cursor in each window, yet sending all events - if wow was a drawing app it should be possible to draw on 1 and have same drawing on additional windows)
Broadcast of clicks will be extremely easy to add -- I'll do that very soon.

Broadcast of drags (i.e. the ability to draw, that's a good way to describe it) -- I'm going to try to do this, it may turn out to be easy. I've never tried before so I don't know. Does anybody know if Octopus can do it without its optional hook code and without its optional filter driver? If Octopus can do it with those limitations, then it will be easy for me to add it to Mojo.


- cursor on all windows for preview of mouse broadcasting effect
I'm working under the restrictions with Mojo of using only the normal OS API. Therefore no hooking of DLLs. I don't know if this is possible under these limitations.

If somebody wants to help with this they could read the MSDN documentation for new stuff in DirectX 10 and 11 and the new desktop window manager API stuff in Vista, etc., and see if they can find a way.

[Fursphere]

I'm writing the hotkey-toggle stuff right now as a result of Fursphere's comments. By the way the program is going to have four modes, not three because Fursphere made me realize that broadcast-to-windows and broadcast-to-computers are separate important modes.

The overlay could be added easily but I don't know if that's the best use of my time at this early stage when so many core features need to be created.

I <3 Freddie.

Agreed that the overlay would be extremely nice - but can sit on the back burner for awhile.

On the broadcast subject, I think we talked about this - but once Mojo understands that each wow is a serperate wow, it would be nice to turn off each wow individually. (multi-PC multi-client setups... like 2 on one, 3 on another).

[Freddie]

I <3 Freddie.
Aw shucks :)


On the broadcast subject, I think we talked about this - but once Mojo understands that each wow is a serperate wow, it would be nice to turn off each wow individually. (multi-PC multi-client setups... like 2 on one, 3 on another).
Yeah definitely.

[Moorea]

Agree that some overlay to display infos/modes can wait, it's "nice to have"




I'm working under the restrictions with Mojo of using only the normal OS API. Therefore no hooking of DLLs. I don't know if this is possible under these limitations.


I wasn't thinking of showing the real cursor but maybe just your own drawing on top of the screen at the location the click, etc... would go (in a way that relates then to the previous item)

Again, take your time, I'm happy with HKN in the meantime (and my daughter can wait to box until next break)

[Freddie]

I wasn't thinking of showing the real cursor but maybe just your own drawing on top of the screen at the location the click, etc... would go (in a way that relates then to the previous item)
Are you saying that Mojo should do its own drawing? Yes, absolutely, it would have to. But it has to use operating system services to do the drawing. The drawing has to be very, very fast and it can't mess up the graphics in the window beneath it. These are difficult requirements because the underlying window is using DirectX to composite its graphics on the video card and (so far as I know) the operating system doesn't provide any way for some other process (i.e. Mojo) to mix its own graphics into the first process's DirectX composition. But there are lots of nooks and crannies in the ecosystem created by the video driver, DirectX, Windows desktop window manager, etc., and Microsoft has added a lot of new stuff in these areas over the last couple of years, so maybe there's a way.

Or are you saying the drawing doesn't have to look like a cursor but could look like something else?

[Moorea]

in windowed mode, I can have for instance a 20% opaque/transparent clock widget on top of my wow windows (always on top; opacity 20%) - so rather than manipulate the OS cursor, can you plug in that way maybe ? and yes I meant the shape drawn doesn't have to be what the actual custom cursor from the game would be and maybe just a simple cross hair instead - if that makes the problem simpler

ps: that opacity setting, assuming its an OS support, could be a good way to easily overlay the status window maybe ? the alternative is however the volume controls show up sometime (green bars on top of the screen)

[Moorea]

example of what I mean for standard (windows7) widget overlay :

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_VMUAeYUcLwc/S1NZ7Z8j1mI/AAAAAAAAAkw/zEeo98MepWk/s800/widgetoverlay.jpg

[Freddie]

in windowed mode, I can have for instance a 20% opaque/transparent clock widget on top of my wow windows (always on top; opacity 20%) - so rather than manipulate the OS cursor, can you plug in that way maybe ? and yes I meant the shape drawn doesn't have to be what the actual custom cursor from the game would be and maybe just a simple cross hair instead - if that makes the problem simpler

ps: that opacity setting, assuming its an OS support, could be a good way to easily overlay the status window maybe ? the alternative is however the volume controls show up sometime (green bars on top of the screen)
This is the kind of thing I was getting at when I talked about reading the MSDN docs for new DWM/DirectX stuff in Vista and Win 7.

Traditionally (up until Vista) a program would have done what you describe by making a window that looks like a cursor. (Programs paint their own windows so if Mojo wants to make a window that looks like a cursor, that's not a problem.) The program would have set the window to be always on top and moved the window whenever the cursor moves.

There would have been two problems with this. (1) It's too slow for a cursor. (2) As the fake cursor moves it will leave visible artifacts behind itself that eventually get redrawn, but not immediately.

Starting in Vista, Microsoft rewrote the way windows get drawn. Depending on system settings and video hardware, everything on the desktop is now handled as double-buffered DirectX surfaces (the same way games draw themselves). Some of this new code gets used automatically (without an application necessarily knowing anything about it) and some of it is exposed to applications through new APIs that they have to call deliberately.

It's possible that some of this new stuff could make this practical, but I don't know because I haven't used it or read its documentation carefully.

The appearance of the cursor doesn't matter -- if this is doable, the drawing could be anything.

[Freddie]

ps: that opacity setting, assuming its an OS support, could be a good way to easily overlay the status window maybe ? the alternative is however the volume controls show up sometime (green bars on top of the screen)
It's easy to overlay an image. It's easy to make the overlaid image translucent. There are APIs in Windows that allow applications to do these things, and they have been in Windows for years.

The problems are (1) moving the overlay as fast as a cursor moves and (2) not creating visual artifacts as it moves.

If you're willing to hook DLLs and go outside the normal OS APIs, it's a different story. I assume that's what Innerspace does. But that's not practical for Mojo.

Edit: Or if you wrote your own device driver and manipulated video hardware directly -- I guess that's a theoretical possibility but it's not practical.

If I'm overlooking something, somebody please tell me! :)

[Freddie]

The problems are (1) moving the overlay as fast as a cursor moves and (2) not creating visual artifacts as it moves.

I just realized, given the changes in Vista and Win 7, if the new DWM stuff is enabled and video card is present, these things may not be a problem anymore, especially in Win 7, especially with a fast video card.

I'll put a test implementation in Mojo so we can see.

[Moorea]

cool, looking fwd to it ! thx

(and I don't know anything about windows programing so I can't help you confirm/deny any of this - sorry!)

[Fursphere]

Ok, I've done two things:

1) I went through every "mojo" related thread I could find and took note of the features requested by various users.
2) hijacked post #2 in this thread (it was "reserved and not being used" and consolidated the information there

If I missed something - or even missrepresented something, please let me know! :D

[Freddie]

Ok, I've done two things:

1) I went through every "mojo" related thread I could find and took note of the features requested by various users.
2) hijacked post #2 in this thread (it was "reserved and not being used" and consolidated the information there

If I missed something - or even missrepresented something, please let me know! :D

Thanks. This is a big help. I'll use it to decide what to do next.

[Moorea]

Thanks Fur - I just updated the first post to be uptodate (a lot of the "this doesn't work" wasn't the case anymore; which is great progress) - and also edited the second one - adding some "meta questions" on some of the requests which are unclear to me

launching wow, startup items, etc... are maybe all nice to have but they don't prevent using the tool; they are just convenience - dot not pass and mouse click broadcasting (and slightly lesser extent maximizer) are imo deal breakers which prevent using mojo so I really think they should get top priority

[Freddie]

dot not pass and mouse click broadcasting (and slightly lesser extent maximizer) are imo deal breakers which prevent using mojo so I really think they should get top priority
If one or both of you want to editorialize and put remarks like that in the list, that's fine.

Anything that gives me guidance about prioritizing is good.

Or keep it in order to reflect what people are saying?

I don't want to ask you to do a lot of work, just saying that would help.

[Moorea]

Am I doing something wrong or is focus follow actually not in the current build ? seems like I need to click when I disable window broadcast for the input to get to the correct window ? can you make the hkn focus follow be the default behavior (with maybe some setting to leave it alone) ? (or is in a preference I missed in some of the setting window)

Thanks

[Fursphere]

dot not pass and mouse click broadcasting (and slightly lesser extent maximizer) are imo deal breakers which prevent using mojo so I really think they should get top priority


I have been multiboxing for years without "do not pass" - so I hardly say it makes the tool unuseable. Or mouse broadcasting for that matter.

Just unbind keys in WoW.

You gota think really careful about what "can" and "cannot" be done when you're talking to a former long time "full hardware" boxer. No tricks here - I did everything the hard way - and successfully at that. ('cept arenas).

:D

[Freddie]

Am I doing something wrong or is focus follow actually not in the current build ? seems like I need to click when I disable window broadcast for the input to get to the correct window ? can you make the hkn focus follow be the default behavior (with maybe some setting to leave it alone) ? (or is in a preference I missed in some of the setting window)

Thanks
Mojo doesn't give you a way to set it.

I don't think anybody mentioned it until today.

I'll add it in the next build.

In the meantime, if you're using XP, you can set it with a free utility from Microsoft called TweakUI or maybe it's called PowerToys, I forget.

On Vista, you set it in Control Panel : Ease of Access : mouse : "Make it easier to switch between windows"

Hmm, actually, that won't work because Vista has a delay by default.

maybe you can't set it in Vista without a third-party utility. I'll add it to Mojo right away.

[Moorea]

I can set it with HKN :-) but it'd be nice to have it built in within Mojo :-)


Not having DNP is a big issue because I don't want to unbind WASD because I want when I mouse over that other window and use WASD that it works, that it always goes only to the window under the mouse and not the other ones; when in that mode

[Freddie]

I'll put it in the next build.

In fact I'll put all three settings in the next build. HotkeyNet only has one of them. Mojo will have Windows's entire Active Window Tracking API. :)

I don't know why Microsoft builds this stuff into Windows but doesn't give people any way to turn it on.

Maybe it's part of some standard they have to meet for government contracts, in order to emulate Unix or something.

[Fursphere]

I'll put it in the next build.

In fact I'll put all three settings in the next build. HotkeyNet only has one of them. Mojo will have Windows's entire Active Window Tracking API. :)

I don't know why Microsoft builds this stuff into Windows but doesn't give people any way to turn it on.

Maybe it's part of some standard they have to meet for government contracts, in order to emulate Unix or something.

The answer is simple. 99.9% of WIndows users have no idea WTF you are even talking about. :)

[Freddie]

True but lots of people who come to Windows from Unix want this stuff.

If you fiddle with it, you see right away what it does.

[Fursphere]

lol Unix.

So 0.0001% of the Windows user base? Ya, thats worth spending time on. :)

[Freddie]

Just give me an hour to finish putting it in Mojo,, and you can tell me how stupid it was.

But if you tell me now you'll talk me out of it and it will never get done. :)

[Fursphere]

I never said it was stupid. I was only answering your question as to why Microsoft never bothered putting the features in for the standard user - because almost no one would use it, let alone know what it is.

If you want to add it to Mojo, by all means do so. I'm sure people will user it. Multiboxers are _not_ your standard users after all. :)

[Freddie]

I was kidding, but seriously, the strange thing is that Microsoft DID spend money on it. They did the programming. They did the testing. They wrote the API. They wrote the documentation.

All that stuff is 90% of the work and 90% of the money. They did it. It's in the OS.

What I find strange is that after all this money and work, they don't put a dialog box in Control Panel so people can turn it on and use it. (Well, it's partly exposed in Control Panel.)

[Fursphere]

Maybe its a support thing? If they added they option, perhaps they didn't want ten million phone calls on the subject? lol

[Freddie]

Maybe.

[Moorea]

when when :-)

ps: I hooked up my 9y on Mojo ! she's dual boxing with Mojo :-)

[Freddie]

when when :-)

ps: I hooked up my 9y on Mojo ! she's dual boxing with Mojo :-)
Woot. Our first nine yr old Mojo user!

Hm, nine. Maybe that puts the DNP screen in a different perspective. :)

I just finished Active Window Tracking and even made a (very minimal) web page about it.

But I"m trying to get those two graphics files into the installer before I post the build.

http://mojoware.org/help/active_window_tracking.html

[Moorea]

what does the z order thing do ?

[Freddie]

what does the z order thing do ?
Chooses whether a window raises (comes to foreground) when the mouse hovers over it.

Maybe I should say that instead of Z-order.

[Freddie]

I just posted the build if you want to try it.

[Moorea]

yes calling it "auto raise" would be more intuitive I think

edit: it's working nicely now; thanks

[Moorea]

used post #3 for some open bugs; updated feature list and priority in post#2

[Moorea]

fur, I had spent some time writing up some issues in post#3 - why did you remove it ?

please do not do that or we'll have issues

[Moorea]

Freddie - feature request: can you add the option to wrap the monitors in mouse over settings and/or to add the same monitor more than once: when I setup 3 PCs next to each other I'd like that when I reach one on the far left or far right if I continue that way it wraps back to the other one instead of having to go all the way back

Generalizing I suppose it may be convenient too to be able to put some slave both say on the right and below a given one so I can choose to path to get them

But for now a simple "wrap" check box would be nice (automatically join the left most with the right most edges)

ps: that dialog has a small bug; it has a greyed out version of the "bring home" hotkey setting (found in the other dialog) : remove it or make it work ?

[Freddie]

Freddie - feature request: can you add the option to wrap the monitors in mouse over settings and/or to add the same monitor more than once: when I setup 3 PCs next to each other I'd like that when I reach one on the far left or far right if I continue that way it wraps back to the other one instead of having to go all the way back
You can add this to the request list but I'll tell you now, it's unlikely that I'll get to this for a long time because I would have to make some major changes to a complicated part of the program and since eventually I want to rewrite that code anyway, I'm going to put off changing it until I do the rewrite.


ps: that dialog has a small bug; it has a greyed out version of the "bring home" hotkey setting (found in the other dialog) : remove it or make it work ?
That's not a bug. It's just half-finished. I can't do the other half of the work until I finish rewriting the configuration data structures.

The program is going to have visible half-finished features sprinkled all over the place for a long time. This is an alpha test.

This is exactly what I meant the other day when I said I had better maintain the bug list myself because other people can't tell whether something is a bug or is merely unfinished.

[Moorea]

It's ok we can wait

About bugs vs unfinished - it's still useful to have a list of known issues so people don't spend time wondering about the same things over and over again or if they need to report it - also the reason why I called that one a bug is you do have the other part of the UI (and conf) where that setting is working - either way I don't think the same setting should be in 2 places - but again this is "small"

[Freddie]

About bugs vs unfinished - it's still useful to have a list of know issues so people don't spend time wondering about the same things over and over again or if they need to report it
Yes but I have to do it.


- also the reason why I called that one a bug is you do have the other part of the UI (and conf) where that setting is working - either way I don't think the same setting should be in 2 places - but again this is "small"
If you don't like the design of something, I recommend that you tell me, "I don't like this design."

I put this setting in both places because (1) it has to go on Predefined Hotkey Settings but (2) many people who use mouseover will only think of looking on Mouseover Settings.

I have no choice about (1). If I omit it from (2), a signficant number of people will look on (2), see that it's not there, and conclude that Mojo is a shitty program.

In general, I think that putting settings in multiple places makes the program easier to use, and there isn't any downside.

[Moorea]

k agreed - the only downside is then, why it works in once place and not in the other :-) but that can wait

Where do you maintain the list of open issues ?
(maybe Fur/Svper can change the ownership of the 3rd post so it's yours to edit... or I can repost the first 2 in a new thread and you can maintain the 3rd one as open issues)

[Freddie]

Where do you maintain the list of open issues ?
I think I started one on Google but I"m not going to continue it.

I'll probably make a new one on mojoware.org but I'm not sure how soon I'll get to it.

[Freddie]

k agreed - the only downside is then, why it works in once place and not in the other :-) but that can wait
Why it works? Do you mean why it must be in one place but not necessarily the other? Because the list of Predefined Hotkeys says "Predefined Hotkeys" at the top.

People wil assume that it's a complete list, so it has to be complete. I can't omit any predefined hotkeys from it.

[Moorea]

no I was just reiterating that I don't quite understand why the feature (setting a home key hotkey) is working fine when in the predefined hotkeys dialog and disabled in the mouseover dialog - unless somehow "bringing mouseover cursor home" and "hotkey for bringing back cursor" are 2 different things that aren't actually supposed to be the same and the later is the unfinished one ?

[Freddie]

It's not working on Mouseover Settings because there isn't any code to modify that setting in the file that implements that dialog box.

I can't use the code from Predefined Settings because that code deals with a whole block of config info.

Since I wrote the code in Predefined Settings, I decided to rewrite the data structures that are used for config info, so I will have to rewrite the code in Predefined Settings.

After I rewrite that code, I will write new code for Mouseover Settings.

One of the reasons I decided to rewrite the data structures is to make it easy to write the code for that setting on Mouseover Settings.

In short, that item is waiting (like so many other things in the program) for me to rewrite the configuration data structures. They are pretty complicated. They exist in three forms -- serialized on TCP, serialized in files, and in memory -- and I want to make sure I get them right, since future work on the program will be very fun and easy if they are well designed but not so fun if they are not.

[Moorea]

k thx for the explanation.

Speaking of the dialog, having the text field look like an editable one (white and you can click in it and get a cursor) is slightly bad user experience given that you can't actually type in it - the only benefit seems to be to select words to copy out but I don't think that's worth the user surprise of nothing happening when typing in there (unless you want later that typing in there actually works as a simpler version of the more complete dialog you get when clicking "set") - just my 2 cents

[Freddie]

k thx for the explanation.

Speaking of the dialog, having the text field look like an editable one (white and you can click in it and get a cursor) is slightly bad user experience given that you can't actually type in it - the only benefit seems to be to select words to copy out but I don't think that's worth the user surprise of nothing happening when typing in there (unless you want later that typing in there actually works as a simpler version of the more complete dialog you get when clicking "set") - just my 2 cents
Let's wait and see what other people think.

I'll just point out that if that field (and similar fields on Predefined Hotkeys) were gray, they woud be hard to read.

[Moorea]

make it white but not have a visible cursor when clicked?

[Freddie]

Good idea. I'll try to do that.

[Moorea]

Added "Repeater regions (clicks in one window part actually go to some other window) - useful for healbot mapping" to wish list (from http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?t=28193&page=2#14 )