Molecular Manufacturing..... A work in progress.

[Xzin]

Being the futurist I am, I keep tabs on up and coming technology. I also know a lot about 3d printing. It has come a long way but what happens when all of a sudden, nano printing at the molecular level becomes possible, perhaps in a few decades?

http://nanoengineer-1.com/content/images/stories/gallery/assemblies/gears/mark-iiik/a8/a8_qm_animation5.gif

http://nanoengineer-1.com/content/images/stories/gallery/assemblies/gears/srg-i/a8/a8_qm_animation5.gif

Timeframe is a bit optimistic but the end result is coming.

http://crnano.org/whatis1.jpg

The implications are staggering.

Imagine if we all had one of these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEYN18d7gHg

Which, by the way could be self replicating. 1:2:4:8:16:32:64:128:256:512:1024:2048...... quite quickly.

[PyrostasisTDK]

Self Replicating! OMFG!

HAVENT YOU SEEN STARGATE ITS EVIL!

[Xzin]

Self Replicating! OMFG!

HAVENT YOU SEEN STARGATE ITS EVIL!

^^^ I admit that my hopes for humanity just dropped a notch.

[Eteocles]

I can see it now, Guy named Paul Ruveer, driving down the streets of towns in a luxury Sedan yelling "THE NANITES ARE COMING, THE NANITES ARE COMING!", with a sea of of them behind devouring everything in it's path...lol

Joking aside that's some pretty interesting stuff, just been fantasy in Star Trek and the like so far...next up: Holodecks :p

Do keep posting things like this and the figureprints though Xzin, I share the interest to a lesser extent(Read: I'm too lazy to go hunting down the more obscure ones that aren't publicized) and they usually make for good threads ;p

[Xzin]

Imagine, printing solar panels for your house that are nearly 100% at converting solar energy to power - at almost no cost. Fabricating food at will. "Printing" the latest computer designs - that possibly embed in your body and can, among other things, constantly monitor your health. Computers that run faster than anything you can imagine. Even printing out replacement organs. Or even an entire replacement body.

http://crnano.org/benefits.htm

"Overview: Molecular manufacturing (MM) can solve many of the world's current problems. For example, water shortage is a serious and growing problem. Most water is used for industry and agriculture; both of these requirements would be greatly reduced by products made by molecular manufacturing. Infectious disease is a continuing scourge in many parts of the world. Simple products like pipes, filters, and mosquito nets can greatly reduce this problem. Information and communication are valuable, but lacking in many places. Computers and display devices would become stunningly cheap. Electrical power is still not available in many areas. The efficient, cheap building of light, strong structures, electrical equipment, and power storage devices would allow the use of solar thermal power as a primary and abundant energy source. Environmental degradation is a serious problem worldwide. High-tech products can allow people to live with much less environmental impact. Many areas of the world cannot rapidly bootstrap a 20th century manufacturing infrastructure. Molecular manufacturing technology can be self-contained and clean; a single packing crate or suitcase could contain all equipment required for a village-scale industrial revolution. Finally, MM will provide cheap and advanced equipment for medical research and health care, making improved medicine widely available. Much social unrest can be traced directly to material poverty, ill health, and ignorance. MM can contribute to great reductions in all of these problems, and in the associated human suffering."

But there are risks too. If you think computer bugs are a problem now, just wait until somebody puts a "virus" in your body embeded nanocomputer that also contains a micro amount of a highly toxic compound. Most people have no idea how deadly VERY small amounts of certain compounds can be. The risks of those compounds would be very real if anybody could "safely" make them at will. These risks, and others, can be mitigated somewhat but when everybody could, in theory, "print" guns - or even nuclear weapons - it is clear that the consequences of this are staggering.

http://crnano.org/dangers.htm

"Overview: Molecular manufacturing (MM) will be a significant breakthrough, comparable perhaps to the Industrial Revolution—but compressed into a few years. This has the potential to disrupt many aspects of society and politics. The power of the technology may cause two competing nations to enter a disruptive and unstable arms race. Weapons and surveillance devices could be made small, cheap, powerful, and very numerous. Cheap manufacturing and duplication of designs could lead to economic upheaval. Overuse of inexpensive products could cause widespread environmental damage. Attempts to control these and other risks may lead to abusive restrictions, or create demand for a black market that would be very risky and almost impossible to stop; small nanofactories will be very easy to smuggle, and fully dangerous. There are numerous severe risks—including several different kinds of risk—that cannot all be prevented with the same approach. Simple, one-track solutions cannot work. The right answer is unlikely to evolve without careful planning."

[aetherg]

I attended a lecture once by a guy who worked at a nano-manufacturing startup. He had a bunch of really cool videos showing theoretical nano-assembly machines in motion.

Unfortunately, the timeframes given by a lot of nanotech startups are incredibly ambitious. Just looking at that schedule you posted, we've just barely finished stage one, which was supposed to happen in 2000. Nanoparticle-reinforced coatings and composites are finally entering mass production, but active nanostructures have not gotten beyond the prototype phase.

[Xzin]

I agree, but like most things, it builds on itself so growth tends to be exponential.

Everything is perpetually "just around the corner" though :).

[aetherg]

I think the ability for individuals to do this stuff is a long way out (perhaps beyond our lifetimes), much the way 3D printing is even now not very capable or affordable. But even as a replacement for traditional manufacturing, it will have HUGE impacts on the world.

Ignoring everything else and taking just solar power by itself; imagine how the world would change if someone came up with a really viable, high-efficiency, high-density solar panel, and accompanying battery technology. It would turn world economics and politics completely upside-down.

Edit: I don't know about producing food at will :P I think the idea of picking up a rock, putting it in a machine, and getting a croissant is a little too star-trek. I'd say that's still centuries away. I think for our lifetimes, it will be a manufacturing thing. It'll need to be done in bulk, in factories.

[Candymountai]

Her voice man, her voice.

[Squiggoth]

I print myself out a bigger........


.....nevermind. :oops:

[Eteocles]

Squig, I think you meant: "I print out my Robe and Wizard Hat." ;D

[Gallo]

Last time nanotech came up in these forums, I mentioned Ray Kurzweil's book: The Singularity. He spells out a lot of the potential benefits of nanotechnology including the theoretical "replacement body" that Xzin talked about. Some of the possibilities are beyond the word "cool".

He extrapolated the constantly accelerating speed at which computer processors are developing, and determined that by 2045 we'd have the necessary tools to do the absolutely unimaginable.

For all you skeptics out there that say "A nanofabricated body? That's impossible" or "Nanorobots delivering medicine directly to my cells at a molecular level, impossible", just expand your thinking a bit. If you visited someone back in the 1700's and said "In about 150 years, you'll be able to talk to someone on the other side of the globe with a little machine that you talk into!" people would have sent you to the crazy house. Even if you said 100 years ago "All of the libraries of the world will eventually be able to be accessed from virtually anywhere with a small notebook sized machine" they would also label you crazy.

I have a lot of hopes for stuff like this... it truly is an exciting time to live (a bit cliche, I admit).

[Ryan]

Last time nanotech came up in these forums, I mentioned Ray Kurzweil's book: The Singularity. He spells out a lot of the potential benefits of nanotechnology including the theoretical "replacement body" that Xzin talked about. Some of the possibilities are beyond the word "cool".

Is it just me, or is the first possibility thought of with "replacement body" is a quick and easy gender change. Which I find terribly exciting.

[Xzin]

Is it just me, or is the first possibility thought of with "replacement body" is a quick and easy gender change. Which I find terribly exciting.

Presuming that when we reach that level of technology, we can transplant an entire male brain into a perfectly hot female body (vocal chords and all)..... the brain would still be "male" and as such likely to still be, well, male. Would you have a period? Would you respond to the mostly body created hormonal surge of PMS in the same way as a "real" female? Could you reproduce with "your" altered sperm now turned into eggs? How would that even work? Could you become pregnant? With your old bodies sperm?

For all intents and purposes, with no modifications, your brain would be a gradually feminizing lesbian male brain. I can't imagine the brain would be completely unaffected by the body.

So......

Even if only your brain were kept intact and looked like the hottest woman on Earth, pretty sure I would still prefer the real deal.

[Xzin]

Wtb cloned body parts for replacement. A living organism, is by definition, a factory for itself. Also, wtb a way to eliminate scarring and reconnect nerves.

Bjork - All is full of love

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjAoBKagWQA

A more realistic shorter term future body replacement?

W/ oblig hot robot intercourse.

[Toned]

Read Jack Uldrich's Book; The Next Big Thing is Really Small

[Vos]

hmmm my first thought is, "how will DARPA weaponize this?"

[Gallo]

Is it just me, or is the first possibility thought of with "replacement body" is a quick and easy gender change. Which I find terribly exciting.

Presuming that when we reach that level of technology, we can transplant an entire male brain into a perfectly hot female body (vocal chords and all)..... the brain would still be "male" and as such likely to still be, well, male. Would you have a period? Would you respond to the mostly body created hormonal surge of PMS in the same way as a "real" female? Could you reproduce with "your" altered sperm now turned into eggs? How would that even work? Could you become pregnant? With your old bodies sperm?

For all intents and purposes, with no modifications, your brain would be a gradually feminizing lesbian male brain. I can't imagine the brain would be completely unaffected by the body.

So......

Even if only your brain were kept intact and looked like the hottest woman on Earth, pretty sure I would still prefer the real deal.

What is the exact definition of gender? Is it a mind AND body thing? Who's to say that a male brain couldn't "learn" what it is to be female after 5-10 years of being in the body. Stuff like this brings up a lot of interesting philosophical questions.

Most open minded people would jump at the chance to have an experience as a member of the opposite sex. When we can build our own bodies, everyone is going to be "perfect".... if everyone is "perfect" what is considered beautiful? We can't ALL be attractive :)

[Xzin]

What is the exact definition of gender? Is it a mind AND body thing? Who's to say that a male brain couldn't "learn" what it is to be female after 5-10 years of being in the body. Stuff like this brings up a lot of interesting philosophical questions.

Most open minded people would jump at the chance to have an experience as a member of the opposite sex. When we can build our own bodies, everyone is going to be "perfect".... if everyone is "perfect" what is considered beautiful? We can't ALL be attractive :)

Beauty is more than your exterior features.

So, after 5-10 years, would a straight male brain being bombarded by female hormones (and in a female body) change their desires and become attracted to males? Or is sexual preference more "hardwired" (despite its fluidity) at birth?

[Xzin]

? I don't follow.

I thonk a lot of people underestimate the PROFOUND effect that even very small amounts of certain compounds can have.

LSD, Blowfish toxin, most drugs (of which most pills are filler), hormones etc.

Estrogen (and other hormones, as guys have estrogen and women have testosterone) plays a rather large role in the body and the brain.

To what end when it comes to gender identity in a body that was not yours at birth, I cannot say.

[Lost Ninja]

Last time nanotech came up in these forums, I mentioned Ray Kurzweil's book: The Singularity. He spells out a lot of the potential benefits of nanotechnology including the theoretical "replacement body" that Xzin talked about. Some of the possibilities are beyond the word "cool".

Is it just me, or is the first possibility thought of with "replacement body" is a quick and easy gender change. Which I find terribly exciting.
Not the only one. :)

I read a while back a theory that went something like this:

Life in the universe is easy to achieve.

The fatc none of it has contacted us is a sure sign they discovered self replicating machines...

I'm unsure who came up with the theory or why. Also bear in mind the Von Neumann machines aren't certainly microscopic and could as easily be massive (or any size in between).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Neumann_machine

[Remote]

It was my understanding that the male and female brain for all *functional* purposes, are exactly the same. Wouldn't that mean with the hormonal changes of having an otherwise female body, that you would in fact be female?

[Suvega]

It was my understanding that the male and female brain for all *functional* purposes, are exactly the same. Wouldn't that mean with the hormonal changes of having an otherwise female body, that you would in fact be female?

Not True at all.

The female brain has a bigger thing in the middle connect teh left and teh right.

This means that Velani can not only play her 5 characters at teh same time, but also
1) Play with the cats
2) Listen to an audio book
3) Plan out her next mocking on realm forums
and finally for the coup degras on how better she can mutli task:

4) remind me about how I'm ignoring her, when I'm desperetly trying to concentrate on just PLAYING 5 CHARACTERS.

[Vyndree]

4) remind me about how I'm ignoring her, when I'm desperetly trying to concentrate on just PLAYING 5 CHARACTERS.

But you do this all time time *pout* :(

You'll be halfway thru a sentence and then realize you aggroed an elite then totally forget that you were in the middle of saying something to me :(

:( <-- sad panda

[Xzin]

There are far more differences than the corpud callosum, the part of the brain that connects the two hemispheres:

"The corpus callosum is a structure of the mammalian brain in the longitudinal fissure that connects the left and right cerebral hemispheres. It is the largest white matter structure in the brain, consisting of 200-250 million contralateral axonal projections. It is a wide, flat bundle of axons beneath the cortex. Much of the inter-hemispheric communication in the brain is conducted across the corpus callosum."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpus_callosum

"Interestingly, people who see a human brain for the first time often ask, "Is it male or female?" Yet, for many millennia no one, even scientists, thought about sex-related differences and similarities in the human brain. A brain was just a brain. Now hardly a year goes by that we don't read authoritative studies showing these differences. "

**** OUTDATED LINK REMOVED ****

"What kind of brain do you have? There really are big differences between the male and female brain, says Simon Baron-Cohen, director of the Autism Research Centre, Cambridge University. In his new book, the Essential Difference: Men, Women and the Extreme Male Brain (published by Penguin) Baron-Cohen shows that, indisputably, on average male and female minds are of a slightly different character. Men tend to be better at analysing systems (better systemisers), while women tend to be better at reading the emotions of other people (better empathisers). Baron-Cohen shows that this distinction arises from biology, not culture.



Cell numbers: men have 4% more brain cells than women, and about 100 grams more of brain tissue. Many women have asked me why men need more brain tissue in order to get the same things done.

Cellular connections: even though a man seems to have more brain cells, it is reported that women have more dendritic connections between brain cells.

Corpus collosum size: it is reported that a woman's brain has a larger corpus collusum, which means women can transfer data between the right and left hemisphere faster than men. Men tend to be more left brained, while women have greater access to both sides.

Language: for men, language is most often just in the dominant hemisphere (usually the left side), but a larger number of women seem to be able to use both sides for language. This gives them a distinct advantage. If a woman has a stroke in the left front side of the brain, she may still retain some language from the right front side. Men who have the same left sided damage are less likely to recover as fully.

Limbic size: bonding/nesting instincts - current research has demonstrated that females, on average, have a larger deep limbic system than males. This gives females several advantages and disadvantages. Due to the larger deep limbic brain women are more in touch with their feelings, they are generally better able to express their feelings than men. They have an increased ability to bond and be connected to others (which is why women are the primary caretakers for children - there is no society on earth where men are primary caretakers for children). Females have a more acute sense of smell, which is likely to have developed from an evolutionary need for the mother to recognize her young. Having a larger deep limbic system leaves a female somewhat more susceptible to depression, especially at times of significant hormonal changes such as the onset of puberty, before menses, after the birth of a child and at menopause. Women attempt suicide three times more than men. Yet, men kill themselves three times more than women, in part, because they use more violent means of killing themselves (women tend to use overdoses with pills while men tend to either shoot or hang themselves) and men are generally less connected to others than are women. Disconnection from others increases the risk of completed suicides."

http://www.doctorhugo.org/brain4.html

Others:

http://www.cerebromente.org.br/n11/mente/eisntein/cerebro-homens.html

This is not to say men are superior to women or women are superior to men. What the evidence shows is that there are identified gender differences between a "male" and a "female" brain. As such in life, nothing is as cut and dry as it seems though. I wonder how much the body impacts all of this and when that influence is greatest (during puberty? earlier?).

[Doubleo7]

This stuff scares me and excites me at the same time. Technology is a double edged sword, often wielded by people that don't have humanities best interest in mind. For that matter the average person doesn't have humanities best interest at mind... just numero uno. This particular sword would have to be controlled. Imagine the security threat when someone could concievably send instructions to distant nano-factories for just about anything... Imagine a world where consumption (and waste) is limited only by desire. This kind of threat would require that we give even more power to governments to save us from the wack jobs among us.

Humanity isn't ready for the implications of this. It likely never will be. We will handle this like everything else: reactively; and suffer the consequences.

[Manaburner]

Being a physician I'm interested in this thread but I can't help but to question the feasibility of a "brain transplant".

Something as simple to all of us such as vision is so complex an action that reproducing the connections from the occipital lobe (vision centers) to the optic nerve/globe would be so odious that it would most probably be unfeasible.

As an example, trying to pinpoint seizure centers in a human brain by probe (there are intracranial stimulators that target seizure foci and silence them with low level current) requires weeks to months of trial and error using biofeedback or just plain "guessing" as where they are. The same technology is used in Parkinson's Disease patients and requires complex programming and incredible patience on the operator's part and the PATIENT's part as well.
And this is for a single focus in the brain.

Now imagine how many connections there are for human vision. To map out a millimeter of the retina to it's origins in the occipital lobe, yank out the connections (axonal trauma would probably kill neurons altogether) and place them in another body, preserving the exact mapping of that visual center.... you get the idea.


Technology is unlimited, yes. But humans themselves have their limitations. The brain, for how wonderful it is... is severely limited in it's organic form.

[Skuggomann]

Id print my self a spaceship for a hamster and then id find anoter word for it than printing XD

[Gallo]

Being a physician I'm interested in this thread but I can't help but to question the feasibility of a "brain transplant".

Something as simple to all of us such as vision is so complex an action that reproducing the connections from the occipital lobe (vision centers) to the optic nerve/globe would be so odious that it would most probably be unfeasible.

As an example, trying to pinpoint seizure centers in a human brain by probe (there are intracranial stimulators that target seizure foci and silence them with low level current) requires weeks to months of trial and error using biofeedback or just plain "guessing" as where they are. The same technology is used in Parkinson's Disease patients and requires complex programming and incredible patience on the operator's part and the PATIENT's part as well.
And this is for a single focus in the brain.

Now imagine how many connections there are for human vision. To map out a millimeter of the retina to it's origins in the occipital lobe, yank out the connections (axonal trauma would probably kill neurons altogether) and place them in another body, preserving the exact mapping of that visual center.... you get the idea.


Technology is unlimited, yes. But humans themselves have their limitations. The brain, for how wonderful it is... is severely limited in it's organic form.

Who says a "brain transplant" has to be a physical one? At some point in time, technology will be to the point that nanorobots inside of the brain could effectively transmit a "copy" of your brain at incredibly high resolution to some sort of digital form. It brings up the philosophical question of "what exactly is consciousness?".... If we can digitally copy my brain and put it in a robotic body, and no person could tell the difference between my real brain and the copy, which one is "me"? Many people will argue that the physical brain is in fact a large part in the consciousness of a person and if you change that, you change the person. Studies have shown though that every cell in your body, including your brain cells, actually are replaced by newer cells once every few months. So, is the "you" today the same "you" as it was a year ago? Certainly not physically. Does that mean you're not the same person? I don't think it means that.

Either way... it boggles the mind.

[Lost Ninja]

The other thing to think on is that Brain transplant isn't that essential anyway. If you could create a nano-machine that was capable of creating from the raw materials a whole body. Wouldn't it not be quite a bit easier to set said nano-machine going on the existing body? After all you aren't really changing that much. How the person the change is happening to might think on it would depend on who they were.

If it were happening to me I'd be fairly ecstatic, even as part of an experiment that might lead me to being a puddle of pink goo, hey at least I'd be pink. ;)

There are a huge number of people around the world who for one reason or another want to be able to change their bodies, not just those with gender related issues. But anyone who has a body that is damaged in a fairly major way, paraplegics for instance or amputees.

Nano-machines of the type Xzin is describing could have a massive effect on humanity as a whole, its isn't something we should be going into lightly. The future evil of the sixties was UFOs; in the seventies it was radiation; the eighties was nuclear war; the nineties artificial intelligence; now we should really be thinking about a thimbleful of grey dust that can dissolve someone into their component parts. Or do the same for our whole world...

[Kbalz]

Hello, I've lurked a while, learning about Multiboxing as I'd like to try it for Warhammer, anyways:

about this topic, lots of people have been discussing the positives of MM.. but what about people printing drugs, weapons, and that kind of junk?

[Skuggomann]

Hello, I've lurked a while, learning about Multiboxing as I'd like to try it for Warhammer, anyways:

about this topic, lots of people have been discussing the positives of MM.. but what about people printing drugs, weapons, and that kind of junk?

Whod wana do that wen you can print:



CANDY!

[opt]

i like 2d printing, i used to screenprint, i actually have it as a trade. Flatsheet vynals plastics metals and shaped glasses are my speciality. But i nolonger do this

[Wilbur]

I heard the North Koreans have nanobots which they use for evil purposes.

[Kbalz]

Whod wana do that wen you can print:
CANDY!

Yeah nose candy

[Arbez]

Too many moving parts in a system. I'd be the first one to accidentally crash into it in a drunken stupor rendering it useless... Until the nano technician with his itty-bitty toolkit crawls inside to fix it =^)

[neux]

It was my understanding that the male and female brain for all *functional* purposes, are exactly the same. Wouldn't that mean with the hormonal changes of having an otherwise female body, that you would in fact be female?

Not True at all.

The female brain has a bigger thing in the middle connect teh left and teh right.

This means that Velani can not only play her 5 characters at teh same time, but also
1) Play with the cats
2) Listen to an audio book
3) Plan out her next mocking on realm forums
and finally for the coup degras on how better she can mutli task:

4) remind me about how I'm ignoring her, when I'm desperetly trying to concentrate on just PLAYING 5 CHARACTERS.




But you do this all time time *pout* :(

You'll be halfway thru a sentence and then realize you aggroed an elite then totally forget that you were in the middle of saying something to me :(

:( <-- sad panda

proof that female brain is better at multitasking, WTNanobuild female brain, I will think about upgrading to female body later...

I am more fascinated with atoms at particle level. (I am thinking beyond Nano here)
How does it really works? gravity, time, space, pure matter-less energy?
Can a string theory explain anything? perhaps parallel universe?