I realy do envy horde boxers [Archive]

Fursphere

11-23-2009, 11:48 AM

David

11-23-2009, 11:53 AM

I changed my UD dk to BE just for the racial plus now it matches the looks of my pallies.

drevil

11-23-2009, 12:05 PM

yeah.. i'm stuck around 1800 because every team has at least
1 warlock, 2 bloodelves, 1 tauren ..

any word from blizzard they "actually" want to change this soon or only their typical "in the future" ?

Smoooth

11-23-2009, 12:33 PM

Oh noes a 2 second stun/silence that has a 8 yard range and a 2 minute cooldown. Warstomp even has a cast time. Seems like you are overreacting to me.

Kromtor

11-23-2009, 12:41 PM

You're right about belf silences being incredible anti-boxer....however horde has to face horde in arenas too.

shaeman

11-23-2009, 12:50 PM

Isn't the blood elf silence racial only overpowered to static, caster opponents all gathered within a relatively compact area. (I.e Multiboxing shaman).

Against a team of 5 individually controlled players the chances of them all being in the same area to be locked down in this way is far less, so less of an impact for them.

Eloxy

11-23-2009, 12:51 PM

Yeh Arenas are fine, but bg's are to horde boxers advantage. To roll or not to roll thats the question. Might wanna wait for cataclysm and see what the revamped racials will be like.

Edit: with that beeing said, If i meet a ally team in arena i am like "phew, atleast they are alliance" ;)

Alemi

11-23-2009, 12:53 PM

Oh noes a 2 second stun/silence that has a 8 yard range and a 2 minute cooldown. Warstomp even has a cast time. Seems like you are overreacting to me.

Correction.

"a 2 second stun/silence that has a 8 yard range and a 2 minute cooldown and subject to diminishing return"

At most, you'll get a 3.5 second silence, if perfectly chained.

Ridere

11-23-2009, 01:10 PM

Correction.

"a 2 second stun/silence that has a 8 yard range and a 2 minute cooldown and subject to diminishing return"

At most, you'll get a 3.5 second silence, if perfectly chained.

Have to say I agree with the OP. I'm not saying the move is godmode, or anything. But when compared to the alliance ones...

Yes, Every man for himself and perception are okay. Maybe stoneskin situationally and such. But crux of the deal is Alliance has "Oh crap" macros, and horde get "Rawr" macros. And it's evidenced in the population balances of those who actually pay attention to things like racials and not just looks, or being "the good guys"

Doesn't bug me too much, however, as I don't worry too much about that stuff, and if anything, I can brag about playing in the "harder" of the two choices. haha. And maybe things will get balanced out with racials in Cata, and people will faction switch back from horde to alliance.

But no one can really deny that people have migrated to horde because of the better players, and the better players originally migrated over because of the racials.

I only get annoyed people people try to downplay the racials :D They're OP'd for PvP, and we all know it. Who cares, really, but just don't downplay it, or act like they're not. haha.

Lyonheart

11-23-2009, 01:11 PM

I have been tossing and turning about switching my team to horde. I think I will am going to do it. Its true in BGs and WG, they chain those abilities on my team a lot. They always have tenacity, so my magmas rarely bail me out while I sit there stunned and silenced. I try and make sure to kill any Cows or BEs from afar if and when I can lol.

But its not just the racials for me. The horde on both servers I have been on just seem better. They work well together in BGs more often than not. When alliance wins it by the skin of our teeth in a race now days. We used to Win 90%. I think the better alliance players went horde over the last few months ( or however long the change has been in ) Because we never win AV now unless me and my boxer guildie kill the boss and all 4 tower guards at once lol.

And i have been wanting to be horde since I started playing WoW, i went Alliance to be with my guild from DAoC. I think its time for the switch.

Kromtor

11-23-2009, 01:48 PM

The grass is always greener. You'll soon be out 100 bucks and bitching about alliance =)

heyaz

11-23-2009, 01:55 PM

we play like 80% horde in arena....

Alemi

11-23-2009, 01:57 PM

The grass is always greener. You'll soon be out 100 bucks and bitching about alliance =)

QFT. People blame the racials when it's usually the AOE that kills me. As someone who rerolled alliance after playing horde for 2+ years, anything that kills me in 4-5 seconds, would kill me all the same regardless of if I were stunned or silenced.

IMHO Blood Fury is far more OP than anything else listed here. Torrent and stomp are highly effective against multiboxers, but so is Blizzard, Bladestorm, Rain of Fire, Hurricane, Divine Storm, Blood Boil, etc.

Clovis

11-23-2009, 02:00 PM

If it wasn't $140 ($35x4) I would do it. Right now I know my wife would throw a fit, she already got pissed at the purchase of a $70 gaming mouse =P

When faction changes were announced I considered it just to not have to fight Belfs and tauren in BGs, I didn't even think about the horde SP racial at the time.

But yeah, a two min cool down basically means its up every attack where as gift of naaru is a "oh, my healer is being focused" - I might use it twice per battleground and thats only IF I have one of my regular healers with me (I have my naaru target them and cast) -- where as an offensive racial is used every chance you have.

Gift of Naaru is only good really when you have 4 of them going but I would rather have an extra SP trinket.

IMO in arenas they should just disable racials but then they'd lose the money for faction changes =P

Fat Tire

11-23-2009, 02:10 PM

IMO in arenas they should just disable racials but then they'd lose the money for faction changes =P

truer words have never been spoken.

Mosg2

11-23-2009, 02:41 PM

Alliance might have a harder time with Horde racials but ffs, grinding honor Alliance side is about three times as fast as it is Horde for me. YMMV.

BobGnarly

11-23-2009, 03:08 PM

Alliance might have a harder time with Horde racials but ffs, grinding honor Alliance side is about three times as fast as it is Horde for me. YMMV.

Exactly. At least on my BG, you don't wanna BG as horde. The alliance wins a lot more than they lose, and that gets old after a while, OP racials or not.

Ridere

11-23-2009, 04:26 PM

Exactly. At least on my BG, you don't wanna BG as horde. The alliance wins a lot more than they lose, and that gets old after a while, OP racials or not.

Wow, that's really too bad.

Join the battle group The Scryers is in. I just armoried Arlassa after my recent 6 pvp mount farming session, and here are the results

Battleground (Won/Played)

AV: 48/105
AB: 30/93
WSG: 26/102

If you haven't pvped in awhile, you may want to try again. With faction changes, I think a lot of the more competitive BGers jumped ship from Alliance to Horde.

I used to agree with you all that AV was basically an Alliance win. pretty surprised that I've actually lost more than I've won. 95% of all that data listed below was from the last few weeks. Only BGs I did on Arlassa before were holiday achievement related. So maybe 1-5 games at most.

So yah. It's good to be horde on my battlegroup.

Stealthy

11-23-2009, 08:26 PM

What Eloxy said.

What's the most popular class in PvP? Ret. Paladins. What's the only race/class horde get to choose for this? Belf Paladin (and soon to be Tauren? wtf?).

So you've got a tanky melee class with an aoe silence / stun. And they do chain them.

PvP is PvP. God mode is not PvP.

Actually this is NOT true. Ret Paladins only make up about 1.2% of arena players atm. The nost popular class for PvP are Disc Priests, followed by Holy Paladins:

http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/player

Cheers,
S.

David

11-23-2009, 08:31 PM

Actually this is NOT true. Ret Paladins only make up about 1.2% of arena players atm. The nost popular class for PvP are Disc Priests, followed by Holy Paladins:They do shitloads of damage but from what I`ve heard they don`t fit in any sort of setup. On the otherhand, a boxed group of them does :o

Gares

11-23-2009, 09:09 PM

Its hard to find a setup that works well with a solo Ret paladin. I play Rogue/Ret/Priest in 3's and it use to be a rockin setup but when Ret got its damage nerfed the comp became subpar.

We pretty much get wrecked by any good wizard cleave team and teams with mages are almost a guaranteed loss for us as well if the mage is decent.

For 5's they really don't fit in anywhere unless your running triple melee cleave which most people don't

Tasty

11-23-2009, 09:22 PM

Yes, Every man for himself and perception are okay.

What do you mean okay? I was ecstatic when my human team got every man for himself. It freed up a trinket slot :D

Ridere

11-24-2009, 01:19 PM

What do you mean okay? I was ecstatic when my human team got every man for himself. It freed up a trinket slot :D

You picked out a single sentance to try and discount my entire point. haha. I was happy for that racial, too, even though I've not had to use it much at al in PvP, but my Alliance = "Oh crap" racials vs Horde = "Rawr Offense" stance still applies.

Best Defense is a good Offense and all that.

It's all in good fun, since they're going to go out the window soon. It's just a pet peeve of mine in WoW when people downplay obviously imbalanced aspects. It's like just man up to it.

Fursphere

11-24-2009, 01:20 PM

Actually this is NOT true. Ret Paladins only make up about 1.2% of arena players atm. The nost popular class for PvP are Disc Priests, followed by Holy Paladins:

http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/player

Cheers,
S.

Oh right. My bad.

Arena = PvP

BGs = somethingelseapparently

Whowantstoknow

11-24-2009, 01:42 PM

I wouldnt change faction or reroll just for racials though as they are due for rebalancing in Cata.

Kromtor

11-24-2009, 02:04 PM

Oh right. My bad.

Arena = PvP

BGs = somethingelseapparently

pretty much. BG's are an afk'er/botter/tv watcher paradise. and if you see a pally topping damage more than half the time he's prot.
% spec participation and perceived imbalances in BG's are meaningless.

Multibocks

11-24-2009, 05:14 PM

Why prot? What ability do they have that does massive damage?

thinus

11-24-2009, 06:00 PM

Why prot? What ability do they have that does massive damage?

Invulnerability.

Multibocks

11-24-2009, 07:06 PM

lol that doesnt put ouch much dps though. I guess if you wade into a group of attackers and cast consecrate (wooptie!) you might get decent damage, but one mage casting one blizzard will easily beat you.

thinus

11-24-2009, 07:11 PM

Multibocks

11-24-2009, 07:23 PM

hmm I just dont see that outdoing people that can AOE mass amounts. Hunters, Mages, DKs(<-- OP sunsofbitches in AoE), Warlocks, hell I bet even warriors are better. I just find it weird I guess.

Whowantstoknow

11-24-2009, 08:59 PM

If geared right (stack SBV) Prot pallies do a lot of dps in PvP

Check out http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Dark+Iron&n=Hoboshocka though it looks like hes in PvE gear right now

Stealthy

11-24-2009, 10:41 PM

If geared right (stack SBV) Prot pallies do a lot of dps in PvP

Check out http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Dark+Iron&n=Hoboshocka though it looks like hes in PvE gear right now

This. ^^

Good guide on prot pally pvp here for those interested: http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=10831193285&sid=1

Kinda sad when Prot is more competitive than Ret for PvP (solo play that is). :(

Cheers,
S

drevil

11-26-2009, 12:23 AM

Oh noes a 2 second stun/silence that has a 8 yard range and a 2 minute cooldown. Warstomp even has a cast time. Seems like you are overreacting to me.

just take a look at the 100 top 5v5 teams... it's 75% horde

http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/team/5/all/all/all/all/

i lost so many games because a BE casting silence right into my heal,
while 5 enemies aoeing my group.

Eloxy

11-26-2009, 07:49 AM

just take a look at the 100 top 5v5 teams... it's 75% horde

http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/team/5/all/all/all/all/

i lost so many games because a BE casting silence right into my heal,
while 5 enemies aoeing my group.

this ;)

shaeman

11-26-2009, 09:04 AM

i lost so many games because a BE casting silence right into my heal,
while 5 enemies aoeing my group.

Have you never lost due to a well timed kick, blind, ghoul stun, repentance, hammer, silence,death coil, shadowfury, spell lock, fear, psychic scream, howl of terror, silencing shot, concussion, sheep, wind shear etc, etc, etc?

75% of the top 100 arena is horde - That doesn't prove that a blood elf silence and warstomp are the difference, there are any number of factors (or a combination) that could affect it.

I think the core problem with this perceived overpoweredness is that the majority of the boxers are running shaman teams - all standing right on top of each other, unable to perform independantly and take avoiding measures (like standing apart, moving in different directions etc).

Any good arena team will have a raft of interrupts, crowd control coordinated, the Belf silence and Tauren stomp will just be one of them.

Multibocks

11-26-2009, 04:02 PM

I think your guess is as good as theirs, perceived OPness or not horde is top 75%. What would help is what % of arena pvpers are horde. If it's even then there is a problem and I dont think you can just poopoo it away with "horde are better pvpers"

Multibocks

11-26-2009, 04:11 PM

This. ^^

Good guide on prot pally pvp here for those interested: http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=10831193285&sid=1

Kinda sad when Prot is more competitive than Ret for PvP (solo play that is). :(

Cheers,
S

So basically only good against melee attackers that are using melee-type damage. Anything magical cannot be blocked, so unless this guy is backed up with a healer he puts out mediocre damage and dies slowly. Only AS and HotR is high damage, Holy Shield is reactive and only from blocks. I'd rather follow a warrior around as a healer. However compared to a solo ret Im sure this spec is better =/

Whowantstoknow

11-26-2009, 04:41 PM

So basically only good against melee attackers that are using melee-type damage. Anything magical cannot be blocked, so unless this guy is backed up with a healer he puts out mediocre damage and dies slowly. Only AS and HotR is high damage, Holy Shield is reactive and only from blocks. I'd rather follow a warrior around as a healer. However compared to a solo ret Im sure this spec is better =/

As prot you have magic mitigation and the main attack is not HotR it is ShoR as well as much better control tools. The number 1 dps paladin is also prot. It used to be OP now it is merely good.

Multibocks

11-26-2009, 07:57 PM

The magic mitigation as prot is not so hot, I would take DK or Warrior over Prot if that was my focus. I just see this spec getting rolled by anyone that can kite and uses magic damage, but then Im no expert in the matter =/

Naysayer

11-28-2009, 04:32 AM

Due to the shear amount of health and healing power, proto paladins can OoM most caster dps or force a draw. The only real difference since the nerf hit is that proto don't have huge mana pools anymore, but if you LoS or play smart you don't run out of mana.Try solo pvping once and a while before you comment on it.

heyaz

11-28-2009, 08:49 PM

im gonna make 5 of these retards on the PTR
and see how OP it is

Multibocks

11-29-2009, 03:05 AM

Ah he meant prot healer. That was nerfed.

drevil

12-01-2009, 04:54 PM

75% of the top 100 arena is horde - That doesn't prove that a blood elf silence and warstomp are the difference, there are any number of factors (or a combination) that could affect it.
I think the core problem with this perceived overpoweredness is that the majority of the boxers are running shaman teams - all standing right on top of each other, unable to perform independantly and take avoiding measures (like standing apart, moving in different directions etc).
Any good arena team will have a raft of interrupts, crowd control coordinated, the Belf silence and Tauren stomp will just be one of them.

hmm, i think you didn't get my point.
it's not about the main problem of boxers after the 3.0 patch (more aoe+cc),
i'm saying these two horde racials are a big pvp advantage.

my realmpool 5v5 ranking looks like this: one ally in the top 25.

just made 12 games .. lost all against horde, won all against ally... it's so annoying.

shaeman

12-01-2009, 06:35 PM

Meaningful stats might actually allow a definitive conclusion to be made.

Without knowing in more detail the numbers making up those summary stats then no decent conclusion can be made. I'm equally as likely to be wrong.

Iceorbz

12-01-2009, 11:15 PM

Ah he meant prot healer. That was nerfed.

Not really, it needs to be stomped into the ground. They are still very powerful and op and highly represented.

Tasty

12-02-2009, 12:26 AM

Why prot? What ability do they have that does massive damage?

They have the ability to faceroll like all the other prot classes in pvp :P What can you do when you're facing someone with 50k hp lol

heyaz

12-02-2009, 02:05 AM

They have the ability to faceroll like all the other prot classes in pvp :P What can you do when you're facing someone with 50k hp lol

I think the proper spec uses pvp ret gear, so it's probably more like 35k

Ualaa

12-02-2009, 05:05 AM

A thread on arena junkies recommended a heavy prot, minor holy spec.
As a healing arena paladin.

With the percentage of stamina (strength now) becoming spell damage.
I believe the Sacred Shield change is a knock against this build.
The general idea was to Divine Plea and be in melee with stuns etc.

I think the build was 19/52/0 or so.
In full protection gear.

I'll see if I can find the thread to link it.

Whowantstoknow

12-02-2009, 09:26 AM

I think the proper spec uses pvp ret gear, so it's probably more like 35k

PvP prot Pals (DPS) use 2pc T9 and a bunch of PvE items for Block Value so their HPs are usually higher than most anyone you regularly see in arena - not 50K though :P