4x Rogue PTR

[asonimie]

Rogue video is up! VERY basic video. No music. Just to give you guys an idea how hard these guys burst. All targets are full relentless, 1150 resilience, and between 25,000 - 40,000 HP. Most of it was done without a healer so I didn't last forever but you'll get an idea what I'm talking about.

Note: Please pay attention to the targets class/HP pool. Some of the kills seem slow at 3-4 seconds... until you see its a warrior/pally with 31-40k hp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHLcZb5rmNI

Enjoy. Let me know what ya think.

[Mosg2]

Really nice video. The damage is about what I was expecting. Any chance of showing some PTR arena matches?

I just see that kind of relative damage now with my Pallies at 79, except they can heal/cleanse/bop/etc. Hmmmm.

[Lyonheart]

I have three low level rogs I'm working on. I find doing more then 3 in the small BGs to put too much pressure on me to help win hehe.

What skills do you use in your click macro in that video?

[asonimie]

no click macros in pvp. What you see my main clicking is what they are all doing. I believe in individual ability control in PVP.

Its almost impossible to get an arena game on PTR, either skirmish or rated. Warsong and wintergrasp is all people do. Wish it was possible.

And ya the pally damage is great. But I am bringing a healer friend for the 5th spot, instead of a DK to snare / whatever. Healer is a huge factor. So is MS and autosnare.


In the end play what makes you happy. These guys are incredible. Obviously Krom proved pallies have potential, I just do not enjoy the ret pally feel as much. These rogues are so dam fun to play for me. And when I get bored I get to do stealth runs into opposing cities and camp people.

[blast3r]

cool video..makes me want to get back to gearing my rogues!

[asonimie]

do eeet!!!

[David]

How do you do the dancing of the rogues? Is it interact with target spam?

[asonimie]

How do you do the dancing of the rogues? Is it interact with target spam?


yup :) They have like a 95% hit ratio. They land all their attacks. Its pure magic.

[Gares]

Thats good stuff. Almost seems easier to do then with shamans (IE less to worry about and buttons from the looks of it)

I think I would have to attempt melee myself to see if I actually liked it or not, because although it looks good it almost seems like you almost lose some of them to the random run away from the group bug etc, but then they come back.

[asonimie]

after a target dies, theres nothing to interact with so they keep autorunning. Just hit follow and they are right there. server response lag makes it seem worse than it is.

[Mosg2]

I would like to see more out-of-stealth stuff if you can. That's going to be the tipping point for me.

It's a given they're going to gib their initial target. Then? That's what I want to see.

Again, awesomesauce here :)

[David]

To what key did you bind the interact with target?

I find it hard to spam the key + doing assist and pressing ability keys at the same time.

I tryed binding it a mouse key but hotkeynet doesn`t seem to like any keys to my mouse. It just moves my camera around in a weird way and makes my mouse jump to the wow windows of the slaves.

[asonimie]

Ya I know what you mean. I included 3-4 clips where I go on a 3-6 target killing spree. With no healer I admit I do get aoe down quick... but anyone does. The ending clip of me in wintergrasp is a good example. killed 6 targets in about 14 seconds... all fully geared and with no healer. You can easily see the damage mutilate spam does... its just as bursty as ambush/stealth attack.

I completely agree with you tho, sustained damage is a must. I wouldn't have rolled my rogues if a stealth gib was all they could do. In 5v5, any insta gib will turn the battle extremely in your favor tho... so its win win for me either way.

[asonimie]

To what key did you bind the interact with target?

I find it hard to spam the key + doing assist and pressing ability keys at the same time.

I tryed binding it a mouse key but hotkeynet doesn`t seem to like any keys to my mouse. It just moves my camera around in a weird way and makes my mouse jump to the wow windows of the slaves.

I totally agree. Spamming interact on the keyboard with left hand really kills my ability to smoothly hit my other keybinds. I use interact on the mouse.

I use a MX revolution mouse which is awesome for boxing... it has like 8 possible binds, and a horizontal scroll wheel. I have it bound to the hor. scroll wheel, whether its back, forward, or downpress - all same hotkey (bound to "u" through the logitech mouse keybindings), so ISboxer/keyclone read a "u" keyboard press. It allows me to be sloppy with it and not have repeat the exact same motion over and over if I get fatigued. Much easier on the hands. I'm basically just flicking the hor. wheel back and forth the whole time :P

[David]

If I recall correctly HKN allows someone to bind two keys to one actual click if I`m correct. If so that would solve some problems if it`s legal to do.

Just bind the IAWT key to all ability keys.

[asonimie]

If I recall correctly HKN allows someone to bind two keys to one actual click if I`m correct. If so that would solve some problems if it`s legal to do.

Just bind the IAWT key to all ability keys.

that would be outside the TOS fyi

[David]

Do you mean legal or not with that one?

[asonimie]

illegal. 1 physical button can never = 2 keybinds

[David]

Thought so as well. I`m trying find a solution for doing IAWT on my mouse. I use HKN and want to use mouse5 to spam it. Sadly when I share the mouse5 through HKN weird things happen. It seems like it deselects my main chars window for a moment resulting in huge camara spins.

[offive]

Fun video... thanks for posting!

[David]

Found a solution allready, My MX5 mouse lets me bind a mousekey to a keyboard key.

Back on topic. I assume you don`t use IAWT on your main right?

[asonimie]

No I don't. I thought about it since it works so dam well on the clones... but as long as my IAWT is comfortable and doesnt interfere... no harm in playing the main rogue like normal.

[David]

Bad part of this is the bit where close seem to run of to weird directions and sometime they just zerg around a mob/player and some other time they just stand still hitting it.

[asonimie]

I see the swirling rogues as a huge benefit actually. Thats what good rogues always do to players, and I've watched their screens... they still hit all their abilities perfectly. Makes me insanely hard to target / decipher whats going on. I love that they do that.... using game bugs to our advantage ftw!

[Clovis]

I really liked the video -- looks like a fun new take on boxing.

However it seems to me that 4 or 5 elemental shamans will still do better because we're ranged and can rapidly switch targets where as a rogue (or any melee) has to run to their next target.

Don't get me wrong though, the sounds of 5 rogues stabbing people was pretty cool :)

[Ualaa]

Depending on your spam speed, with ISBoxer, you can do your DPS macro's as two steps.
Step 1 (physical push 1) will hit your Interact Keybind.
Step 2 (physical push 2) will hit your desired button.

So if you DPS moves on say 1-8.
You'd edit your 1-8 keys to 2 steps (copy the existing step).
Then edit the first step for each, to be FTL Assist Me + Interact Keybind.
And leave the second step (original configuration) as is.

You'd have to get into the habit of spamming those keys very quickly.
Two presses instead of one, for each attack.
But you'd have interact on every attack, without needing a second physical key.

[asonimie]

Depending on your spam speed, with ISBoxer, you can do your DPS macro's as two steps.
Step 1 (physical push 1) will hit your Interact Keybind.
Step 2 (physical push 2) will hit your desired button.

So if you DPS moves on say 1-8.
You'd edit your 1-8 keys to 2 steps (copy the existing step).
Then edit the first step for each, to be FTL Assist Me + Interact Keybind.
And leave the second step (original configuration) as is.

You'd have to get into the habit of spamming those keys very quickly.
Two presses instead of one, for each attack.
But you'd have interact on every attack, without needing a second physical key.

Very very good idea..

[asonimie]

I really liked the video -- looks like a fun new take on boxing.

However it seems to me that 4 or 5 elemental shamans will still do better because we're ranged and can rapidly switch targets where as a rogue (or any melee) has to run to their next target.

Don't get me wrong though, the sounds of 5 rogues stabbing people was pretty cool :)

I understand what your thinking here, but I have to disagree. One of the biggest problems with elemental shamans is the fact we have a cast time, and ranged (easy to LOS), and we have facing requirements. Rogues solve all these problems with the result of more constant damage, instead of having to wait for someone to step in the open... or deal with melee doing figure 8s around us. Other than being hard rooted (which we have 3-4 ways to get out of roots), you can't escape a rogues damage. With shaman people escape our dmg all the time by pillar humping/running behind, spell immunities.

[Marathon]

This video makes me want to make a 5 man rogue team :)

[suicidesspyder]

i think i might jump in with my 4 80 shamans and dk on a wg with u one night when i get time to play due to work. Then we can rock some ass. Or maybe ill just leave my dk out and do shamans lol.

[Iceorbz]

illegal. 1 physical button can never = 2 keybinds

I wouldnt really say it that way, in that sense keymaps wouldnt be legal. I think if you could get something to send 1 + 2 at the same time, that its 1 action. Im pretty sure i used to be able to change my herbalism / mining tracking using left and right I would do that as I flew to track both. Everytime i went left my tracking changed, and when id go right it would switch back.

[Fat Tire]

I think it would be interesting to see rogues in arena. It looks like they are pretty fun in BGs.


I am piggybacking here because really I dont have the time necessary to level/gear/practice to see if x4 rogues would work. What can I say, I am jealous. ;p

I wonder if x3 rogues could do ok in 3v3 to a mid rating 1500 or so?

[Clovis]

I'm going to give it a shot too -- just need to re download the test server client.

[asonimie]

I think it would be interesting to see rogues in arena. It looks like they are pretty fun in BGs.


I am piggybacking here because really I dont have the time necessary to level/gear/practice to see if x4 rogues would work. What can I say, I am jealous. ;p

I wonder if x3 rogues could do ok in 3v3 to a mid rating 1500 or so?


Good idea, doing 3v3 might be a faster way to hit 1800 weapons quick... I'll let ya know asap :)

[Catamer]

i had to watch the whole thing, loved every minute of it.

[David]

I allways wanted to try mage/warlock pvp but seeing how much fun melee pvp is now I`m swapping around. After these rets I`ll level me either warriors, ferals or rogues. Atleast all 1-60. This is just to much fun!

[Naysayer]

I got kinda of worried when I saw those warriors pop bladestorm and the scene cut out before you could tell how it turned out. I guess evasion was on cooldown? Then again you can't dodge attacks from behind and any decent melee in arena is going to be on your back the whole time you're visible so I dunno if you can ignore them even with evasion.

I think the healer makes or breaks this team. You almost have to go druid for the stealth and the cyclone/root melee peeling.

[Naysayer]

8:55 - 9:12 was the best part. Melted that lock through demon armor and soul link while the disc priest was healing with penance, and then the disc priest gives up after the fear break and spits on you. Watching his inner fire count down made me lol.

[asonimie]

I got kinda of worried when I saw those warriors pop bladestorm and the scene cut out before you could tell how it turned out. I guess evasion was on cooldown? Then again you can't dodge attacks from behind and any decent melee in arena is going to be on your back the whole time you're visible so I dunno if you can ignore them even with evasion.

I think the healer makes or breaks this team. You almost have to go druid for the stealth and the cyclone/root melee peeling.

Ya most of the video I was without healer, and against 3-7 enemies I'd get 1-2 kills in then get ganked. I wasn't dying at an alarming rate or anything. Felt very similar to my shamans with no healer around. Nothing that worries me. Bladestorm hurts, but not as bad as I thought it would.

I'm thinking druid healer to start off with at least. The main issue I see is that any other healer will cause them to mount and zerg the healer, making it hard for me to get in position, then again... it could split them up and disorganize them. A well placed sap will leave someone all alone while their team runs after my healer. I have a geared druid and shaman waiting to go, so I'll play both sides here and report back what works :)

[asonimie]

8:55 - 9:12 was the best part. Melted that lock through demon armor and soul link while the disc priest was healing with penance, and then the disc priest gives up after the fear break and spits on you. Watching his inner fire count down made me lol.

haha ya thanks! That part, and when I speed killed 5 people in wintergrasp are my 2 favorite parts.

[asonimie]

I got kinda of worried when I saw those warriors pop bladestorm and the scene cut out before you could tell how it turned out. I guess evasion was on cooldown? Then again you can't dodge attacks from behind and any decent melee in arena is going to be on your back the whole time you're visible so I dunno if you can ignore them even with evasion.

I think the healer makes or breaks this team. You almost have to go druid for the stealth and the cyclone/root melee peeling.

One thing about the evasion idea. My clones are always going to be quickly spinning around a target 3x per second from spamming IAWT, so getting "behind them" is impossible, but they will also be facing away some of the time by default. It's a trade off, but at least with server response lag it should make any coordinated targeting effort useless. Not to mention on my live rogues, I'm using the identical name trick so any voice coordinated assisting in those 4-5 seconds will be impossible. "ASSIST ME ASSIST ME" over vent lol It should help split any enemy damage by a lot.

[heyaz]

Not to mention on my live rogues, I'm using the identical name trick so any voice coordinated assisting in those 4-5 seconds will be impossible. "ASSIST ME ASSIST ME" over vent lol It should help split any enemy damage by a lot.

Nice man.. that would work well with a stealth team that can rush and just open up with no warning... I kinda wanted to do it with my shaman, was gonna name them all "lililililililili", but with a 1 minute+ open time on that kind of comp I guess it wouldn't really matter

[heyaz]

You think you;ll go rocket boots for that team? Seems like that'd be clutch for melee... getting in range

[asonimie]

You think you;ll go rocket boots for that team? Seems like that'd be clutch for melee... getting in range

Absolutely rockets yup, going JC/Eng. If my rogues can drop a target that fast on PTR... I can't wait to see what 10k rocket damage will do on top of it. I'm going to add an "out of stealth" qualifier to make sure they don't launch rockets when I start spamming mutilate :P It should be just amazing.

Edit: misread ur post, no you can't use rocket boots in arena. But they'll have 32AP since tuskars is useless for rogues/pallies

[heyaz]

ah I didn't realized they had nerfed that. I remember in 2s in season 6 watching healers skate around the map with those stupid things

[asonimie]

ya they bumped it back to 5 seconds in return for the arena removal.

[Mokoi]

very interesting, and very funny, but watching the prot pally was so /facepalm XD that souldn't have been a problem on shamans lol. but very interesting, and makes me want to try it =)

[Iceorbz]

very interesting, and very funny, but watching the prot pally was so /facepalm XD that souldn't have been a problem on shamans lol. but very interesting, and makes me want to try it =)

Yeah but if its at least prots vs. you that leaves some healers open for fun and games.

[Fef]

Very nice video. I actually prefer videos without music, much more involving with game sounds, I think.

This makes me want to go back to my 5 DKs for brutal close-combat.

[Fat Tire]

I was wondering if rogues are easier to control since they have less buttons to worry about? Seems like alot of melee have alot of conditional cooldowns. Seems like the rogues cooldowns would be used for mostly for offense bypassing other players' defensive abilities.

[Mosg2]

Seems to me Rogues would be a little easier button-wise than Paladins. Having healing set up alone is worth a couple keybinds.

Mutilate? Check.
Fan of Knives? Check.
Vanish? Check.
Sprint? Check.
Cloak of Shadows? Check.
Kidney Shot? Check.
Cold Blood? Check.
Preparation? Check.

[Fat Tire]

add on trinket/wotf/human button and I think its close.

[asonimie]

Rogues have plenty of abilities and cooldowns to worry about, but yes they are nice because when it comes to dps on my guys, its just mutilate facerolling with either Eviscerate/expose armor finishers. Very simple dps rotation lol.

[Mosg2]

Yeah, I wasn't trying to say it was easy--Just that it's relatively simple once you get on a target. With my Paladins I prefer to use all my abilities by hand, so I've got 3-4 different attack buttons to push on top of Sacred Shield, Healing, Bubbles, Freedoms, Hammers, Repentances, etc. Keeping track of your Rogue's cooldowns would be the hardest part to me.

Asinomie, I'm curious how far you think you'll be able to go in 5's? My Paladins just hit 80 and I'm getting them pvp geared as quickly as possible and I'm really envious of the 70% snare and 50% ms effect you get. Defensively I think Rogues are going to be better while cooldowns are up but after that my impression is they'd get smashed.

[asonimie]

Yeah, I wasn't trying to say it was easy--Just that it's relatively simple once you get on a target. With my Paladins I prefer to use all my abilities by hand, so I've got 3-4 different attack buttons to push on top of Sacred Shield, Healing, Bubbles, Freedoms, Hammers, Repentances, etc. Keeping track of your Rogue's cooldowns would be the hardest part to me.

Asinomie, I'm curious how far you think you'll be able to go in 5's? My Paladins just hit 80 and I'm getting them pvp geared as quickly as possible and I'm really envious of the 70% snare and 50% ms effect you get. Defensively I think Rogues are going to be better while cooldowns are up but after that my impression is they'd get smashed.

From what I see on my PTR tests combined with already being a 2k multiboxer in 5v5 - I feel like I could take them all the way. They have some drawbacks, but all the problems that hurt our elementalsham teams are completely ezsauce for rogues (Inability to cast on swarming melee opponents, LOS, MS, Snare, Dependable CC, etc). I see no reason with my team and background I can't match and surpass kromtors 2200 achievement, especially considering I have similar dps but WITH a healer... which makes so much difference. My god mode 5s healer is going to also heal my rogues (his alt) starting off, so our communication and skill level is extremely high over recruiting some noobie healer.

I agree that rogue survivability drops down some once the cooldowns are gone, but the counter argument is the nature of 5s itself. Anyone who does competitive arena games knows that once you drop a target, 5v4 is incredibly easier than 5v5, I'm talking like 300% easier. My belief is that my rogues will be good for 2 guaranteed kills within 10 seconds. If I can't kill two targets with these guys before CDs wear off, then I feel I'm doing something wrong. And no matter what your viewpoint is, 5v4 and 5v3 is pretty much a victory in the bag.

[Naysayer]

I dunno, Kromtor reached that rating alone. Makes it a lot more impressive than a boxer + gladiator healer reaching the same rating.

[Kromtor]

with a friend healer or not, it'd be a great achievement to get to 2200 with any non-shammy team. i think you're going to face some unexpected hurdles when you go up against the creativity of 2k+ teams with your rogues though and the first and second kill will be harder than you think.

melee in general does great pre-2k and then hits a wall vs. groups that know how to screw with you. i'm working on a druid team now.

[asonimie]

Yes it was very impressive, and mostly to me because he did something original... kinda like boxing rogues to 2k+ would be :P I didn't say surpass kromtor in coolness... only rating :P I think it took balls to gear and level 4 toons nobody had ever tried seriously in arena(altho ret dps is retarted). I'm hoping my time spent will prove as fruitful. My arena goals are always based on beating or trumping my own previous accomplishments.

ps. my healer is duelist.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Nice video. :) Highly amusing to watch how fast squishies die. That one pally at around the 6:00 mark was a lot tougher. Prot/Holy? (i.e.: the build that's getting nerfed next patch?)

Still, neat to see the interact stuff working well in PVP. On a related note, I notice your guys target OK with your main stunned. Do you have 'em setup to attack the current target or failover to the main's target? Interested in how you're set up for that eventuality.

[asonimie]

with a friend healer or not, it'd be a great achievement to get to 2200 with any non-shammy team. i think you're going to face some unexpected hurdles when you go up against the creativity of 2k+ teams with your rogues though and the first and second kill will be harder than you think.

melee in general does great pre-2k and then hits a wall vs. groups that know how to screw with you. i'm working on a druid team now.

I'm interested in what you've noticed from a melee viewpoint, what tricks and hurdles have you seen from teams that give you trouble, in other words... What are people doing to beat your pallies regularly? I can guess based on what I've seen from my caster shammies against 2600 teams, but melee will be a new adventure. Any help would be great Krom, as I can start planning for things people may try against my rogues

Top teams are incredibly smart, but thats the fun of it! Beating gladiator teams is the most fun I've had in this game. Makes it all worth it for me.

[asonimie]

with a friend healer or not, it'd be a great achievement to get to 2200 with any non-shammy team. i think you're going to face some unexpected hurdles when you go up against the creativity of 2k+ teams with your rogues though and the first and second kill will be harder than you think.

melee in general does great pre-2k and then hits a wall vs. groups that know how to screw with you. i'm working on a druid team now.

I'm interested in what you've noticed from a melee viewpoint, what tricks and hurdles have you seen from teams that give you trouble, in other words... What are people doing to beat your pallies regularly(specific examples would be awesome)? I can guess based on what I've seen from my caster shammies against 2600 teams, but melee will be a new adventure for me. Any help would be great Krom, as I can start planning for things people may try against my rogues

Top teams are incredibly smart, but thats the fun of it! Beating gladiator teams is the most fun I've had in this game. Makes it all worth it for me.


Nice video. :) Highly amusing to watch how fast squishies die. That one pally at around the 6:00 mark was a lot tougher. Prot/Holy? (i.e.: the build that's getting nerfed next patch?)

Still, neat to see the interact stuff working well in PVP. On a related note, I notice your guys target OK with your main stunned. Do you have 'em setup to attack the current target or failover to the main's target? Interested in how you're set up for that eventuality.

That pally was full prot, in full PVE tanking gear. He tanked me like a pack of scarlet monastery mobs :P Not a concern for arena tho, just someone dicking around.

My setup on PTR was very simple, they are just assisting my main rogue. They never de-select for follow, so when I get stunned they just keep spamming and IAWTing whatever they already had. I can switch targets while stunned and they pickup the change... so very ezmode from what I've seen so far.

[Clovis]

I still havne't gotten around to trying this :( Every time I think of it, I'm in the middle of something and I need to redownload the test client (I deleted it for hard drive space, then added a 1500gb HD, lol).

Looks like it has a lot of potential - in doing arenas I've found three very good, reliable healers that I do 5v5 with and oddly enough the 3rd is another (resto) shaman.

Could be fun since my shamans are basically maxed out and my playing on them lately consist of checking the AH for mats I need for leveling JCing and doing dailies - no real gear accomplishments left to get, just waiting on points for things.

But the real question is, roll human rogues or faction change the shamans over and roll undead? =P but WTF is getting nerfed to hell right?

[Ualaa]

Depending on how quickly you kill things, consider the dot opener and finisher.
DoT's ignore armor.

But if you're dropping them quickly anyway...

[Whowantstoknow]

5xGoblin rogues :)

[asonimie]

I still havne't gotten around to trying this :( Every time I think of it, I'm in the middle of something and I need to redownload the test client (I deleted it for hard drive space, then added a 1500gb HD, lol).

Looks like it has a lot of potential - in doing arenas I've found three very good, reliable healers that I do 5v5 with and oddly enough the 3rd is another (resto) shaman.

Could be fun since my shamans are basically maxed out and my playing on them lately consist of checking the AH for mats I need for leveling JCing and doing dailies - no real gear accomplishments left to get, just waiting on points for things.

But the real question is, roll human rogues or faction change the shamans over and roll undead? =P but WTF is getting nerfed to hell right?

I rolled humans, sapping another rogue out of stealth was worth it, other alliance racials dont help rogues that much. Except NE but I don't want them lol.


Depending on how quickly you kill things, consider the dot opener and finisher.
DoT's ignore armor.

But if you're dropping them quickly anyway...

Actually one thing I might do is open up with 3 second garrote silences on 2-4 people, making them unable to heal/fear/whatever for 3 seconds.... which is almost enough to kill someone. This all depends on how they arrange themselves... but we'll see its an idea. I'll probably for SURE kill 1 healer while I garrote silence the other any chance I can get.

[Mosg2]

I would imagine a DPS being the better initial target myself.

[Naysayer]

Yes it was very impressive, and mostly to me because he did something original... kinda like boxing rogues to 2k+ would be :P I didn't say surpass kromtor in coolness... only rating :P I think it took balls to gear and level 4 toons nobody had ever tried seriously in arena(altho ret dps is retarted). I'm hoping my time spent will prove as fruitful. My arena goals are always based on beating or trumping my own previous accomplishments.

ps. my healer is duelist.

original yah, but the impressive part was doing it alone. i think that's the ultimate goal here for boxers, to do it alone. getting 1800 alone is a lot more impressive than 2200 with help imo. next would be gladiator the way ellay was doing it back in season 3 or so with like 98 wins and 2 losses and had every top team dodging him at the end of the season. that shit was amazing.

[asonimie]

original yah, but the impressive part was doing it alone. i think that's the ultimate goal here for boxers, to do it alone. getting 1800 alone is a lot more impressive than 2200 with help imo. next would be gladiator the way ellay was doing it back in season 3 or so with like 98 wins and 2 losses and had every top team dodging him at the end of the season. that shit was amazing.

I pretty much entirely disagree with each point. But to each their own of course.

[Gares]

I think at this point anyone who boxes (alone or with a healer) and can get glad is pretty amazing considering the state of the game.

[Clovis]

I still enjoy watching Ellay's old videos, they're what got me to pick up the hobby, but lets be honest, when I watch the old 5v5 arena videos I can't help but to think how easy it was.

No cleave/everyone has AOE, no shadow fury, 1 bubble class - I mean, all you really had to deal with was line of sight.

The burst was waaaaay lower which is what made the comp so good - as 4 elemental shamans back then we could burst people before everyone could.


original yah, but the impressive part was doing it alone. i think that's the ultimate goal here for boxers, to do it alone. getting 1800 alone is a lot more impressive than 2200 with help imo. next would be gladiator the way ellay was doing it back in season 3 or so with like 98 wins and 2 losses and had every top team dodging him at the end of the season. that shit was amazing.

[Multibocks]

Cant wait to see some arena vids!

[SideWays]

My 4x rogues + druid healer are on their way to 80 (atm 20 but i will be 80 "soon").. Cant wait to do real PvP with them :)

[Naysayer]

I still enjoy watching Ellay's old videos, they're what got me to pick up the hobby, but lets be honest, when I watch the old 5v5 arena videos I can't help but to think how easy it was.

No cleave/everyone has AOE, no shadow fury, 1 bubble class - I mean, all you really had to deal with was line of sight.

The burst was waaaaay lower which is what made the comp so good - as 4 elemental shamans back then we could burst people before everyone could.


And in season 10 we will be saying the same things in general about 4xmelee burst that has recently been discovered to work due to IWT changes, just like when ellay showed everyone that shaman burst worked back then.

"it was so easy back then, you didn't have to deal with what we have now"...

Someone showed you what they found to work, and you copied it. It wasn't easy before that, and it wasn't easy for the originator to figure out how to get it to work. Being a copycat isn't as impressive as the guy who put in the work to solve all of the problems for you. So, give credit where credit is due.

[Naysayer]

I pretty much entirely disagree with each point. But to each their own of course.

try 5boxing after you reach whatever rating you feel your 4boxing group peaks at, and then get back to me. you've said it yourself several times that having a healer makes it so much easier, and krom carrying that load himself just makes it so much more impressive.

and you can disagree all you like, but i have no doubt if every pvp boxer were asked whether or not they'd feel more accomplished if they reached a high rating alone rather than with a healer partner, by far the majority would say alone. that's why we box in the first place, to do it alone.

[Multibocks]

so, how about them yankees?


:rollseyes:

[Naysayer]

so, how about them yankees?


:rollseyes:

still buying titles while the smaller markets can't match those massive free agent bids. keep voting against a salary cap so you don't get brought down to an even playing field with everybody else. basically they are the equivalent of someone being allowed to bring 10 characters to 5v5 arena. no respect for that bullshit imo.

[Multibocks]

Well I was hoping they would lose the series, I consider them how not to run a team in the MLB. Not because I don't think they are successful, but because buying a team just seems so... wrong.

It's like paying top arena people to carry your team to gladiator. Sure they can do it, but does it mean as much?

[Mosg2]

Naysayer, I think the problem is that you're trying to speak for all of us here when you say that we all want to get Gladiator by ourselves. 4+1 Gladiator is pretty f'ing amazing in my book.

[Naysayer]

Naysayer, I think the problem is that you're trying to speak for all of us here when you say that we all want to get Gladiator by ourselves. 4+1 Gladiator is pretty f'ing amazing in my book.

You're implying that i don't think gladiator 4+1 is also amazing, which is wrong. It is, but there are things that are far more impressive, like building the blueprints others copy to reach that level. Like almost going 100% win percentage and having the worlds best teams ducking you. Like playing as 1 person against 5 instead of two minds versus 5.

Solo gladiator would be the communities original goal if a comp was found to be possible from the start. Most would be running it rather than a 4+1 comp.

[asonimie]

You're implying that i don't think gladiator 4+1 is also amazing, which is wrong. It is, but there are things that are far more impressive, like building the blueprints others copy to reach that level. Like almost going 100% win percentage and having the worlds best teams ducking you. Like playing as 1 person against 5 instead of two minds versus 5.

Solo gladiator would be the communities original goal if a comp was found to be possible from the start. Most would be running it rather than a 4+1 comp.

It would be fuckin amazing yes, I agree. I just personally have zero issues with playing with my healer buddy.
I would reactivate my 5th account to do it in a heartbeat... I just can't think of any comp accomplishing that. Top teams have figured out a couple ways to beat krom, which btw, melee strategies are not being said aloud on these forums for a reason.. so don't ask.

Running 5x dps is so touchy and no room for error compared to a healer.
We still make our own schedule, just txt each other and bam games... (altho for 5v5 you are kinda limited to late afternoon / evening anyway). We still piss people off, and we still hit 2k (hopefully higher with my lil roguie babies). Those are my main goals, and I actually enjoy the communication and laughter / comaraderie my healer and I have.

To each their own, and if a viable 5xboxer comp makes itself viable in the future I will be there for sure. Keep in mind we never know what cataclysm and "path of the titans" will offer us. Whole new set of skills and effects added to our spells... could be something in there game breaking just like "elemental mastery" was back in season2 which got most of us started boxing :)

[Mosg2]

I'm really becoming quite swayed towards the 4x Rogue team instead of the 4x Ret team, mostly due to your video and confidence level plus the theorycrafting that has happened.

Every time I get kited and killed by 2-3 people in AV I get a little bit more discouraged about the Rets. The damage is insane when I get on a target but getting there can be a *huge* problem sometimes. A good frost mage is nigh-uncatchable for me and I'm not sure what to do about it. Yeah, HoF helps but they can just blink and kite until it's down and then we're back to the begining. Maybe this is just an example of me being a skill-less nub, but I'd like to think otherwise :)

I'm just scared to invest the time into the Rogues and see nothing come of it. The non-viability in pve is something of a concern for me but nothing huge.

Convince me :)

[asonimie]

keep workin on those rets! I wanna see more about them, and you'll have first hand coverage when I get started in arena. 65 with /2 days played. I'm hurrying!

[Mosg2]

That's ridiculous lol. Are you RAF'ing up?

My fastest RAF boost to 60 was a little under 8 hours... Unfortunately all my RAF time is gone and I don't have the cash to go all in on four more :/

[asonimie]

That's ridiculous lol. Are you RAF'ing up?

My fastest RAF boost to 60 was a little under 8 hours... Unfortunately all my RAF time is gone and I don't have the cash to go all in on four more :/

nope. no RAF. 2 days, 4 hours - 65. Not THAT crazy considering thats like 35 hours to 60. To be fair, doing 15 minute lockouts in Cathedral for 15 levels, so about 10 of those hours are AFK time waiting for instance reset.

[Mosg2]

I'm trying to figure out a way to RAF up some Rogues instead of non-RAF. I'll gladly pay ~100 bucks to RAF it but no matter how you slice it you're looking at ~200 bucks or more for the accounts plus transfers to your main accounts. Ugh.

Think I'm going to get all the honor gear out of the way and then see how the Paladins are. I'm sure I'll get more used to them over time.

[Naysayer]

I'm trying to figure out a way to RAF up some Rogues instead of non-RAF. I'll gladly pay ~100 bucks to RAF it but no matter how you slice it you're looking at ~200 bucks or more for the accounts plus transfers to your main accounts. Ugh.

Think I'm going to get all the honor gear out of the way and then see how the Paladins are. I'm sure I'll get more used to them over time.

Start two RAF trial accounts connected to your 1'st and 2nd main accounts (we'll call the new accounts account 5 and 6), buy the vanilla upgrades for both 5 and 6, level them to 60, transfer those 2 new vanilla rogues to your 3rd and 4th accounts. If there's an issue where you wanted to use blood elves or goats, just upgrade the vanilla accounts to 10 day BC accounts for free.

cost

40$ for the vanilla accounts 5 and 6
50$ for the transfers.

[asonimie]

Start two RAF trial accounts connected to your 1'st and 2nd main accounts (we'll call the new accounts account 5 and 6), buy the vanilla upgrades for both 5 and 6, level them to 60, transfer those 2 new vanilla rogues to your 3rd and 4th accounts. If there's an issue where you wanted to use blood elves or goats, just upgrade the vanilla accounts to 10 day BC accounts for free.

cost

40$ for the vanilla accounts 5 and 6
50$ for the transfers.

^^

I think I also heard somewhere that someone got vanilla wow for 10 bucks? Can't remember where I saw it.

[Mosg2]

Hmmmm, maybe that'd work then... Hmmmm :)

[Multibocks]

I'm really becoming quite swayed towards the 4x Rogue team instead of the 4x Ret team, mostly due to your video and confidence level plus the theorycrafting that has happened.

Every time I get kited and killed by 2-3 people in AV I get a little bit more discouraged about the Rets. The damage is insane when I get on a target but getting there can be a *huge* problem sometimes. A good frost mage is nigh-uncatchable for me and I'm not sure what to do about it. Yeah, HoF helps but they can just blink and kite until it's down and then we're back to the begining. Maybe this is just an example of me being a skill-less nub, but I'd like to think otherwise :)

I'm just scared to invest the time into the Rogues and see nothing come of it. The non-viability in pve is something of a concern for me but nothing huge.

Convince me :)

Have you tried repentance? I figure its a no brainer, but sometimes people forget the simple things. Just saying!

[TeamGrizzly]

Most players do not actively look out for stealthed units in BGs so it is much easier to sneak up to do an opening. Probably will be harder to do it in Aneras.

[asonimie]

So ya...4x Killing spree(combat pvp build) is absolutely unreal. I played a bit more with it, and when its on CD the spec is a lil meh, but when KS is up - 40 weapon hits in 2 seconds, pop blade flurry first? 80 weapon strikes in 2 seconds?(across 2 targets)...lol...

I'll post a video sunday when I get back. You guys will love it. If a target stands apart from his buddies = 1 second death whether cloth or plate. I'm predicting combat spec will be a lil too gimmicky for 1800+ (I might be wrong), but I think I could easily rush to 1800 with KS, FOK, and ARush in my arsenal.

FYI: If they ever give into popular demand and make KS single target dmg instead of split, it'll easily be more powerful than season 3 elemental mastery. I'll keep holdin my breath.

[Mosg2]

I think I speak for everyone when I say that some footage of you in BG's from 70-80 is a mandatory requirement :)

I'll probably record some AV tonight with the Paladins and get it posted. I bought all the caffeine requirements for playing 48 straight hours of AV on my lunch and intend on getting started as soon as I get home :)

[Mosg2]

8.5 hours of RAF'ing (45 minutes of that was macro setup) and my Rogues are 60.

Let the Mutilate spam begin!

[Iceorbz]

Going to raf after thanksgiving, the rogues that is

[Kromtor]

8.5 hours of RAF'ing (45 minutes of that was macro setup) and my Rogues are 60.

Let the Mutilate spam begin!

are you boosting or actually grinding quests? thats awesome

[Mosg2]

Boosting, and that was one of my slower runs. I could cut an hour out of that between macros, travel time, and a few mid-instance deaths.

[SideWays]

My rogues hit 60 today too! PvP inc!

[Ualaa]

Definitely need a melee team of some sort.
It should like you're all having a blast on them.

Thinking of 5x Feral cats, as Worgen, but that's down the road.

[Tasty]

So ya...4x Killing spree(combat pvp build) is absolutely unreal. I played a bit more with it, and when its on CD the spec is a lil meh, but when KS is up - 40 weapon hits in 2 seconds, pop blade flurry first? 80 weapon strikes in 2 seconds?(across 2 targets)...lol...

I'll post a video sunday when I get back. You guys will love it. If a target stands apart from his buddies = 1 second death whether cloth or plate. I'm predicting combat spec will be a lil too gimmicky for 1800+ (I might be wrong), but I think I could easily rush to 1800 with KS, FOK, and ARush in my arsenal.

FYI: If they ever give into popular demand and make KS single target dmg instead of split, it'll easily be more powerful than season 3 elemental mastery. I'll keep holdin my breath.

Whats even better is when someones flying around and you dismount above them and Killing Spree as you fall by lol

[Mosg2]

Update:

I wasn't completely sold on the Rogues until I got a 20k hp level 80 Warlock from full to 20% in about 4 seconds before his Felguard started cleaving my guys down. Every cooldown for the Rogues is Divine Storm basically :) I love it!

[Mosg2]

Edit: At level 64 btw.

[SideWays]

WoW gratz :D

OT: Are you leveling or boosting through instances after you hit 60?

[Mosg2]

I boosted from 1 to 64.5. Going to hand grind a bit then go to UK at 65.

[heyaz]

my rogues are lvl 1

[heyaz]

update: rogues at lvl 1 1/2

[Naysayer]

update: rogues at lvl 1 1/2

are you boosting or questing? kill quests only?

[Ridere]

are you boosting or questing? kill quests only?

lol!

I'm a bit excited to work on my rogue team, too. I'm now up to... 99/100 mounts for that achievement. After that, it's open season. Going to get the rest of my teams up to 60, including my rogue team. They'll probably be at 60 for awhile, though. I want to get my Paladins up as my next 80 team, so I have more than bear tanks as an option for doing dungeons.

[Fat Tire]

update: rogues at lvl 1 1/2

You must be Rafing, no other way really.

[Mosg2]

It's funny how there's like 3-4 different threads on the pvp forum roughly centered around melee teams and the conversations keep jumping back and forth between them :)

[asonimie]

It's funny how there's like 3-4 different threads on the pvp forum roughly centered around melee teams and the conversations keep jumping back and forth between them :)

ya i was thinkin that :P

[Mosg2]

Update on your Rogues Asonimie? I just finished my 10 Ret games this week and recorded most of them--Compiling and will upload tonight/post tomorrow early in the morning. Rogues meanwhile are almost 65 and going very smoothly. Can't wait to hit 70 and do AV all the way to 80.

[asonimie]

Update on your Rogues Asonimie? I just finished my 10 Ret games this week and recorded most of them--Compiling and will upload tonight/post tomorrow early in the morning. Rogues meanwhile are almost 65 and going very smoothly. Can't wait to hit 70 and do AV all the way to 80.

just hit 70. was out of town since thursday.

edit: dam you level fast.

[Mosg2]

8.5 hours of RAF, then about 1.5 hours per level boosting in Ramparts and Underbog. Going to UK boost once they hit 65 I think.

[Iceorbz]

I need to find more info on this "UK" boosting... I think my search is broken lol. What level can you do it to and how is it being done.

[asonimie]

8.5 hours of RAF, then about 1.5 hours per level boosting in Ramparts and Underbog. Going to UK boost once they hit 65 I think.

@UK boosting: Here's my experience so far... it ain't that great. Maybe I'm doin it wrong, but ran in there with my DK tank and at that level the kills come slowly, and I found doing elite quests around outlands to be faster. What are people doing differently?

[Mosg2]

I did a test run of UK--I don't think it's going to be faster than hand grinding. I've done all the good quests in HFP but still have all of Zangarmarsh and Terrokar (just the good ones) before I move onto Nagrand. I'll bring them to Northrend at 68 and just quest/AV to 80 methinks.

[heyaz]

@UK boosting: Here's my experience so far... it ain't that great. Maybe I'm doin it wrong, but ran in there with my DK tank and at that level the kills come slowly, and I found doing elite quests around outlands to be faster. What are people doing differently?

Yeah I tried it with my paladin, it's slow as can be. Mobs die way too slow, you can't do big pulls due to all the stuns which will kill your tank, and it takes awhile to run back.

[Mosg2]

My movie's up in the Movies section.

[asonimie]

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/953/wowscrnshot120409203954.jpg

[asonimie]

Ok got 399 weapon skill and did some tests against icecrown elites. In my shitty blues / greens, regular killing spree x 4, no other dmg or cooldowns is doing 80,000 damage. :)

[Iceorbz]

Nice man =) looking good.

Asom, have you noticed a low amount of 5v5 teams in our bg? I keep getting really hard people to fight =/. Like wtb some sort of scrub team haha.

[Mamut]

Grats on 80! Cant wait to see your guys in action. Sounds like if you can catch 2 people close enough together you can gib em both and make it 5 vs 3 perhaps?

[asonimie]

Grats on 80! Cant wait to see your guys in action. Sounds like if you can catch 2 people close enough together you can gib em both and make it 5 vs 3 perhaps?

once i have more gear i think ya. Resilience really takes a bite out of my damage.

[Shodokan]

Interesting concept... before the FOK nerf this team would have RAPED the 5v5 bracket.

[asonimie]

Yup. And 4x FOK still realllllly hurts tho.

[Ualaa]

I like the names on them.
Variations of Clone, for a boxer.

[asonimie]

http://www.wowarmory.com/team-info.xml?r=Uther&ts=5&t=GET+FOKd&select=GET+FOKd

Here's the team. Names have tiny accents on the "o" so it's near impossible to quickly coordinate single target dps against me in those opening seconds.

Just doing the minimum games until I get out of my 77 blues lol.

[Crel]

I always wanted to ksx5:D
Keep us up to date, drolling over how they do. Ima be starting some horde toons soon and this may be fun:)

[heyaz]

http://www.wowarmory.com/team-info.xml?r=Uther&ts=5&t=GET+FOKd&select=GET+FOKd

Here's the team. Names have tiny accents on the "o" so it's near impossible to quickly coordinate single target dps against me in those opening seconds.

Just doing the minimum games until I get out of my 77 blues lol.

Wonder how well that will work overall? I named all my rogues Kätzchenz-w... probably harder to call out that my current team (where the first letter varies and you can actually pronounce the names). Maybe I'll play with the e.

Still, verbally it'll be something like "target the one with a Z"

rather than "target Woobox".. easily pronounced. I know people are doing it at the higher ratings as I am starting to notice some dramatic hard switches and split targeting on the alts, so they aren't just tabbing the front one.

[heyaz]

Names have tiny accents on the "o" so it's near impossible to quickly coordinate single target dps against me in those opening seconds.

Nah I got you figured out man....

"All dps on umlaut"
"CC on circumflex"
"Ok switch to acute"

[Shodokan]

Wonder how well that will work overall? I named all my rogues Kätzchenz-w... probably harder to call out that my current team (where the first letter varies and you can actually pronounce the names). Maybe I'll play with the e.

Still, verbally it'll be something like "target the one with a Z"

rather than "target Woobox".. easily pronounced. I know people are doing it at the higher ratings as I am starting to notice some dramatic hard switches and split targeting on the alts, so they aren't just tabbing the front one.

long names with multiple accented vowels would be hell for a team who is calling crap out.

[asonimie]

So ya I just realized today.... lol @ arena

http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=57934

TRICKS OF THE TRADE:
The current party or raid member becomes the target of your Tricks of the Trade. The threat caused by your next damaging attack and all actions taken for 6 sec afterwards will be transferred to the target. In addition, all damage caused by the target is increased by 15% during this time.

Can be used in arena... 30 second cooldown.

I set it up to daisy chain a>b>c>d>a. Basically my rogues get 15% pally wings in 5v5 every 30 seconds. What a nice thing to realize today.

[Mosg2]

How go the Rogues Asonimie?

[heyaz]

So ya I just realized today.... lol @ arena

http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=57934

TRICKS OF THE TRADE:
The current party or raid member becomes the target of your Tricks of the Trade. The threat caused by your next damaging attack and all actions taken for 6 sec afterwards will be transferred to the target. In addition, all damage caused by the target is increased by 15% during this time.

Can be used in arena... 30 second cooldown.

I set it up to daisy chain a>b>c>d>a. Basically my rogues get 15% pally wings in 5v5 every 30 seconds. What a nice thing to realize today.

lol you just figured this out... I was gonna ask you awhile ago if you set up a tricks of the trade macro, but I assumed it would be a dumb question :)

[asonimie]

lol you just figured this out... I was gonna ask you awhile ago if you set up a tricks of the trade macro, but I assumed it would be a dumb question :)

I always just assumed there was no way it was allowed in arena.