Tracking which threads you have already read

[Owltoid]

I know I've complained about it before, Svpernova, but this new website's tracking of what threads you read is really poor. It's almost meaningless. I know there are tons of threads I haven't read over the last weekend and yet none are highlighted because I visited the site (didn't go into any of the forums) at some point over the weekend.

This forum has some of the best tracking methodology I've ever used:
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/wowetc

I'm sure it's a different platform, but can something be done to this website for the better?

[Svpernova09]

I guess I don't understand the issue you're having. I don't have any problems with seeing unread threads, I have more of a problem missing threads than I do having too many unread.

[Owltoid]

For example, right now I have about 4 forums with unread posts in them. If I never visit those forums, but come back to this website in a few hours, and if there are no new posts from this point on, then those forums will show up as read even though I never read them in the first place.

It's almost as if it takes a look at the last time you visited the website and only highlights those forums which have new posts since that point, regardless if you had read everything there was to see during your last visit.

[Owltoid]

Under User CP - there is a "new posts" button (on the front page... like the dashboard). Use it.

That's not the issue. The issue is unread posts lose their unread status even if you never read them.

[Korruptor]

That's not the issue. The issue is unread posts lose their unread status even if you never read them.

I've noticed the same issue since we've moved platforms.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Yep. Another great example is when you're actually USING the "New Posts" link. If you have 4-5 pages of unread posts, the "search" that the "new posts" link generates will sometimes time out before you're finished paging through them all (unless you're a super-fast reader), causing a bunch of unread threads to now be marked read.

This is super-easy to reproduce.

[Ualaa]

I too have this issue with the New Posts.

My best work around, is to click on Today's Posts.
Some will be darker, as in posted since I last visited the site.
Others will be lighter, indicating they were available to be read, the last time I was here.
Even the light ones will include threads I've never seen.

But at least, every post from this calendar day is found from that link.
Of course if I don't check the Software forum today, but do visit the site.
That link is useless for new posts of yesterday, which were not read.

[Svpernova09]

Right. There is a way to do it.. I saw it somewhere... if I remember I'll post it up. But there is a way to run a search that's different from the one on the front page that's more in depth.


http://www.dual-boxing.com/search.php

Is the most comprehensive search the site offers.

[dubiox]

Forums like this belong on Usenet where plenty of nice threaded readers with killfile support exist, and you aren't forced into any particular reader. But people need their stupid smileys and avatars.

-K

[Ridere]

Forums like this belong on Usenet where plenty of nice threaded readers with killfile support exist, and you aren't forced into any particular reader. But people need their stupid smileys and avatars.

-K

;)

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[Svpernova09]

Just like last time this was brought up: http://www.dual-boxing.com/showpost.php?p=219372&postcount=123

Just to show you... There are 3 ways Vb handles thread / post read marking.


Thread/Forum Read Marking Type

This option controls how threads and forums are marked as read.

Inactivity/Cookie Based - once a user has been inactive for a certain amount of time (the value of the session timeout option) all threads and forums are considered read. Individual threads are marked as read within a session via cookies.

This option is how all versions of vBulletin before 3.5 functioned.
Database (no automatic forum marking) - this option uses the database to store thread and forum read times. This allows accurate read markers to be kept indefinitely. However, in order for a forum to be marked read when all threads are read, the user must view the list of threads for that forum.

This option is more space and processor intensive than inactivity-based marking.
Database (automatic forum marking) - this option is the same as a previous option, but forums are automatically marked as read when the last new thread is read.

This is the most usable option for end users, but most processor intensive.

We use the Inactivity/Cookie Based method because it is has the least affect on server performance thus resulting in faster queries, less server load, and faster page loads. Just to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding each option, I tested each one, and each one acted the SAME when it came down to forum new post marking of threads and threads in sub forums.

So, I hope I've understood what you're explaining correctly, if I haven't, please let me know, and I hope I've explain well enough that this is all working as designed / intended. I can't fix what isn't broken and there is nothing that stands out as "this doesn't act like the normal forum software" when this is one of the 2 forum packages I would say are the industry standard.

[Ridere]

That sounds about right for how it's done, Nova.

Problem with the cookie thing is it mainly just keeps track of website visiting activity, and not thread visiting activity. So you can visit the site, and after a bit, it'll mark all forums as read, based upon the time stamp of the cookie. Even if you never visited any of those threads.

I can understand the rationale behind it from a programming standpoint, as it's a lot easier than keeping individual database track records of when things were visited and such. But in the end, I know I at least feel it's kinda nice knowing that something is going to remain unread until I either click into the thread to read it, or click on some button that says "Mark (sub)forum as read".

Either way, it's not a huge deal, as I'd much rather have the forums up than down. But I can totally see where the frustration is coming from.

[Svpernova09]

That sounds about right for how it's done, Nova.

Problem with the cookie thing is it mainly just keeps track of website visiting activity, and not thread visiting activity. So you can visit the site, and after a bit, it'll mark all forums as read, based upon the time stamp of the cookie. Even if you never visited any of those threads.

I can understand the rationale behind it from a programming standpoint, as it's a lot easier than keeping individual database track records of when things were visited and such. But in the end, I know I at least feel it's kinda nice knowing that something is going to remain unread until I either click into the thread to read it, or click on some button that says "Mark (sub)forum as read".

Either way, it's not a huge deal, as I'd much rather have the forums up than down. But I can totally see where the frustration is coming from.


Yah, I see where people are coming from. I'm not trying to just flat out say "No I won't change this" but the problem is, if I do change it, it will have very adverse effects on the site's overall performance. And I'd rather be able to have the site run speedy for everyone.

[Ridere]

Yah, I see where people are coming from. I'm not trying to just flat out say "No I won't change this" but the problem is, if I do change it, it will have very adverse effects on the site's overall performance. And I'd rather be able to have the site run speedy for everyone.

I totally understand. And that's why I'm glad you're managing the system and not me. I've done my share of website support and application support and such. It's so much easier to just be a user and not have to worry about actually maintaining anything. :D

I used to write legitimate proxies/bots for another game (Well, moreso just a graphical chatroom with minor RP elements, hence why bots would be legitimate), and I'm glad that I don't deal much with that anymore.

[Owltoid]

Yah, I see where people are coming from. I'm not trying to just flat out say "No I won't change this" but the problem is, if I do change it, it will have very adverse effects on the site's overall performance. And I'd rather be able to have the site run speedy for everyone.

Are you sure it will make a noticeable impact on performance? I agree if the site becomes sluggish then the current functionality would be preferable, but it's possible that we can't notice the slowdown if it's slight.

[Khatovar]

Inactivity/Cookie Based - once a user has been inactive for a certain amount of time (the value of the session timeout option) all threads and forums are considered read.

This is the part that is annoying to me. If I come here and start reading threads and come across one that requires a little time to read, respond to or research, everything is marked read by the time I'm done. I could come in with 200 new posts and by the time I read through 1 new thread with more than a few pages or respond to something that takes a little while to type out, the whole forum is marked read and I have to search by date/time to find the other 150 posts that I wanted to read.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

I looked through the User CP options panels and I can't find a setting that disables auto-marking of threads.

[Svpernova09]

I made a few tweaks in a few areas, we'll see how it goes.

I've enabled this option:


Database (automatic forum marking) - this option is the same as a previous option, but forums are automatically marked as read when the last new thread is read.

This is the most usable option for end users, but most processor intensive.

So far, looks tolerable. Kind of a waiting game to see how much performance spikes. Some of my changes to the server that I did before we moved to this system have been undone. Not sure what is up with that but I've reverted to values that should let us run pretty lean.

Don't tell Ellay. :_)

[Ridere]

Looks good. Hopefully it won't bog the system down.

Edit: If there's a way to mark a sub-forum as read, that would be cool, too. Maybe there's a button for it that I'm overlooking, however.

Edit Edit: Found it under the main display of all forums. Worked for the entire board. Good enough for me! I'll start with a fresh slate as of now. Thanks again for the change.

[lordmythic]

I always go to the Portal/new posts first and glad to see threads with unread posts as well. So far, as a user the forums seem to be running at the same speed.

[Flekkie]

I also go to the portal/new posts page first. Then, I open each page of new posts in a seperate tab (in Firefox, this is done by middle-clicking page 2, page 3, then switch to page 3 tab, then middle-click page 4, page 5, etc).

Once done, I have all the new posts ready to read, and no problem if i get logged out due to inactivity.

Only problem is if I need to close my browser window.


Hopefully Svper's thing will fix it though.

[Fizzler]

Holy Macaroni look at all the unread threads!

[DrChaos]

Ive used Vb in the past, is there not an option to make the inactive/cookie based time longer. So if its 10 min, change it to 30 min? That should have no effect on the server load at all. I think we had ours set to 10 hours before it showed them timed out.

[Owltoid]

I don't know about other's experiences, but I'm loving the change. Thanks, Svpernova!

[aboron]

I like it better this way also. I can pick through and read whatever has built up, and then just pop the mark forums read function when i'm caught up.