Dont race change to undead

[Fat Tire]

Will of the Forsaken now shares a 45-second cooldown with similar effects, including the Medallion of the Horde, Titan-Forged runes, Insignia of the Horde, etc.


If anyone was thinking about changing to rogue for WoTF reasons.


Source:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...26978820&sid=1

[Naysayer]

Horde pvp racials are officially garbage. Drowned out and washed away by alliance baddy tears.

[Naysayer]

When 3.3 goes live..... Horde will have had 5 years of superior racials for PvP.

Ya.. QQ all you want. lol

Depends on the race class combo in the fight. Dwarf priests used to be the best race for priests for a very long time. Gnome warriors and snare breaking. Human rogues and perception dominated a couple seasons of arena. Shadowmeld is extremely useful and you have to have been in a closet since BC if you think it's not amazing. Alliance have better pvp racials right now, even before this change goes through.

[Stealthy]

Depends on the race class combo in the fight. Dwarf priests used to be the best race for priests for a very long time. Gnome warriors and snare breaking. Human rogues and perception dominated a couple seasons of arena. Shadowmeld is extremely useful and you have to have been in a closet since BC if you think it's not amazing. Alliance have better pvp racials right now, even before this change goes through.

This.

This will be the 3rd (or 4th?) time WotF has been nerfed - it's pretty much junk now. The shared cooldown is too long for use in arenas or world pvp, and using it will just mean you'll be eating full stuns / blinds / repentances/ frost novas / cyclones etc.

Aside from the announcement of the WotF nerf to coincide with the Paid Race Changes, the picture used to advertise the Paid Race Changes is an Undead to a Blood Elf.

Purposely done or another coincidence?

/tinfoilhat ;)

Cheers,
S.

[Drizhal]

But come cataclysm time we ALLLL Get superior racials to match Gobo's and Worgen! So we can revive the constant arguement of "The Grass is Always Greener" oh and










<3 the nerf =P

[heyaz]

blood fury is still nice and was buffed awhile back

and 25% stun duration reduction is still worth it

[Naysayer]

blood fury is still nice and was buffed awhile back

and 25% stun duration reduction is still worth it

Not sure about your orcs, but mine had their Stun duration reduction racial nerfed to hell by alliance QQ quite a while back. It's pretty much useless now for me. Why is my stun reduction about half of what yours is? UHAX

[heyaz]

Not sure about your orcs, but mine had their Stun duration reduction racial nerfed to hell by alliance QQ quite a while back. It's pretty much useless now for me. Why is my stun reduction about half of what yours is? UHAX

Well it used to be a 40% chance to resist incapacitate and stun, then it was just stun, then it was just 25%. After BC they wanted to reduce the amount of RNG in pvp and go with reducing durations. I can't remember if it's 15 or 25% but it's better than nothing. People gem and/or talent to get 10-25% reductions on CC (including stun), so I think a passive racial isn't half bad.

Blood fury had the MS effect removed, which is great.

[Multibocks]

This.

This will be the 3rd (or 4th?) time WotF has been nerfed - it's pretty much junk now. The shared cooldown is too long for use in arenas or world pvp, and using it will just mean you'll be eating full stuns / blinds / repentances/ frost novas / cyclones etc.

Aside from the announcement of the WotF nerf to coincide with the Paid Race Changes, the picture used to advertise the Paid Race Changes is an Undead to a Blood Elf.

Purposely done or another coincidence?

/tinfoilhat ;)

Cheers,
S.


Your tears, I feed on them. QQ moar peeps, seriously it was one of the most OP racials for FIVE years, it's about time it got nerfed. This is coming from someone who was long time horde too.

[Naysayer]

Your tears, I feed on them. QQ moar peeps, seriously it was one of the most OP racials for FIVE years, it's about time it got nerfed. This is coming from someone who was long time horde too.

Says the alliance dbag hiding behind 4 tremor totem stacks.

[Multibocks]

Hmm you mean my mixed group of mage/lock/druid/war/priest? Ya STFU you whiner.

[Naysayer]

Hmm you mean my mixed group of mage/lock/druid/war/priest? Ya STFU you whiner.

you pvp with that group?


or do you pvp with the shaman you talk about in the tremor totem stacking thread?

http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?t=23412

do you even pvp at all, or were you just one of the alliance bandwagon whiners who blamed wotf for ever time they died, even when there were no undead present?

[suprafro]

So, is the same thing going to happen to the human racial I assume?

[Multibocks]

you pvp with that group?


or do you pvp with the shaman you talk about in the tremor totem stacking thread?

http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?t=23412

do you even pvp at all, or were you just one of the alliance bandwagon whiners who blamed wotf for ever time they died, even when there were no undead present?

I dont pvp with the shaman anymore and yes I do pvp with my mixed group. Do I do that well? Nope, but do you see me crying as much as you do? Nope. Get a backbone, seriously. Oh and classy searching through past threads. I would do the same, but what a waste of time. I recently switched to Alliance so thats not a lot of time to complain about WotF from the opposite team, I complained about it when I was ON horde. It's stupid and racials need to go away, they will not be able to balance them.

[Naysayer]

I dont pvp with the shaman anymore and yes I do pvp with my mixed group. Do I do that well? Nope, but do you see me crying as much as you do? Nope. Get a backbone, seriously. Oh and classy searching through past threads. I would do the same, but what a waste of time. I recently switched to Alliance so thats not a lot of time to complain about WotF from the opposite team, I complained about it when I was ON horde. It's stupid and racials need to go away, they will not be able to balance them.

Could tell you to get a backbone so that you would not have whined so much that wotf got nerfed in the first place, right? It was alliance whining that got it changed, so don't try and turn the tables on undead that are upset with this change leaving us with the worst racials in the game by far. Absolutely worthless racials now.

I didn't need to search for a thread named "TREMOR TOTEM STACKS", sorry I remembered it and you were busted lying.

I agree with the "all racials need to go", but you won't see me being a scrub douche laughing at the other side when I'm OP and he get's nerfed. Sorry to break it to you, but balance isn't when you're opponent is at a disadvantage.

[Fat Tire]

I agree with the "all racials need to go", but you won't see me being a scrub douche laughing at the other side when I'm OP and he get's nerfed. Sorry to break it to you, but balance isn't when you're opponent is at a disadvantage.


I think this is just the start of racials being neutered. I think they will change alot of racials that give any kind of advantage in the coming weeks. Arcane torrent, aoe slience will be next imo. Every man for himself is weird it seems overpowered but I dont know by how much unless you have the highest PvE trinkets.

[Multibocks]

Could tell you to get a backbone so that you would not have whined so much that wotf got nerfed in the first place, right? It was alliance whining that got it changed, so don't try and turn the tables on undead that are upset with this change leaving us with the worst racials in the game by far. Absolutely worthless racials now.

I didn't need to search for a thread named "TREMOR TOTEM STACKS", sorry I remembered it and you were busted lying.

I agree with the "all racials need to go", but you won't see me being a scrub douche laughing at the other side when I'm OP and he get's nerfed. Sorry to break it to you, but balance isn't when you're opponent is at a disadvantage.


Busted lying? What? Are you a moron? I told you I dont play that team anymore when you asked if I pvp'd with shamans. So I guess you only face shamans when you pvp on your UD? Ya and I totally whined everywhere about WoTF and you read it all. This be the first time on any messageboard that I mentioned it. Good god man you are such a fucking retard. Need some cream for the giant vagina you developed? :eek:

[Gares]

I still think that I am going to just faction change my Dranei Shaman to ORc Shaman regardless of the racial changes happening. Bloodfury still seems the way to go over Gift of the Naruu and most of the time I never get a chance to use gift in Arena because I barely can get the global off.

[Naysayer]

When did Shaman get removed from the Horde?

Your argument makes as much sense as this picture:

Couldn't possibly be because you play alliance, could it?

[TheBigBB]

Could tell you to get a backbone so that you would not have whined so much that wotf got nerfed in the first place, right? It was alliance whining that got it changed, so don't try and turn the tables on undead that are upset with this change leaving us with the worst racials in the game by far. Absolutely worthless racials now.

I didn't need to search for a thread named "TREMOR TOTEM STACKS", sorry I remembered it and you were busted lying.

I agree with the "all racials need to go", but you won't see me being a scrub douche laughing at the other side when I'm OP and he get's nerfed. Sorry to break it to you, but balance isn't when you're opponent is at a disadvantage.

How can you blame the entire alliance faction for causing this change? That makes about as much sense as blaming undead players who gloated about how good their racial was. We have no idea what the discussion at Blizzard headquarters really was, so don't go flaming others just because you're upset. I'd like to imagine that Blizzard had some statistics that showed undead players were winning disproportionately often.

I do think that Blizzard ought to compensate this change by giving undead some other benefit...

[Naysayer]

Your arguement is that WotF was unjustifiably nerfed because Shaman have tremor totems (that can be stacked with multiple Shaman in a group/raid)? (Since you specifically attacked an alliance player that may or may not play multiple Shaman)

1) Both Races have Shaman. So that has nothing to do with Alliance/Horde
2) Undead cannot be Shaman. So who cares about Shaman. Humans have "every man for himself" and you aren't bitching about them. (and they can't be Shaman either)

So... what are you talking about again?


My arguement is that he doesn't care because he has his fear immunity in pvp already and that being alliance he has a natural dislike for horde, hence his typical WoW forum troll comments.


Face it, fear bombs are a bane to multiboxer pvp and a huge reason why shaman are one of the few successful comps. WotF was a very slight work around to try and counter fear bombs and play different comps, but that'll be gone soon.

From a solo perspective, undead is a horrible race choice for pvp now, they will be picked as rarely as trolls were from now on. Blood elf population is about to get even higher, and when comparing horde racials to the alliance racials will make any serious pvper laugh. It's not even close at all anymore.

Though, like someone already mentioned, this could be just the first step to nerfing all racials to uselessness, which is a good thing if that's what it's really about.

[Naysayer]

How can you blame the entire alliance faction for causing this change? That makes about as much sense as blaming undead players who gloated about how good their racial was. We have no idea what the discussion at Blizzard headquarters really was, so don't go flaming others just because you're upset. I'd like to imagine that Blizzard had some statistics that showed undead players were winning disproportionately often.

I do think that Blizzard ought to compensate this change by giving undead some other benefit...

I never said "entire" alliance. It would be a bit silly to accuse me of and assume i meant every single alliance player, wouldn't it? The answer you're looking for is YES.

And it's not that wotf got nerfed to the point that if you use it after this patch you're basically killing yourself by putting your trinket on cd. It's a wasted racial spot. It's the fact that undead have absolutely nothing good racial-wise now. Horrible race choice. They could have just mirrored it to the human racial EMfH, and that'd have been great. Would make sense since they are basically former humans, but no they just trashed the race all together and now we have a bunch of Dbags taunting us about it as if they haven't had amazing racials on the alliance side since BC started.

[TheBigBB]

I never said "entire" alliance. It would be a bit silly to accuse me of and assume i meant every single alliance player, wouldn't it? The answer you're looking for is YES.

And it's not that wotf got nerfed to the point that if you use it after this patch you're basically killing yourself by putting your trinket on cd. It's a wasted racial spot. It's the fact that undead have absolutely nothing good racial-wise now. Horrible race choice. They could have just mirrored it to the human racial EMfH, and that'd have been great. Would make sense since they are basically former humans, but no they just trashed the race all together and now we have a bunch of Dbags taunting us about it as if they haven't had amazing racials on the alliance side since BC started.

It's not silly to accuse you of something that you clearly said:


Could tell you to get a backbone so that you would not have whined so much that wotf got nerfed in the first place, right? It was alliance whining that got it changed"

If this is not supposed to be hostile towards pretty much all alliance players, then you need to pay attention to what you're saying, because I don't see how else it can be taken. People playing alliance has nothing to do with it. Blizzard made the call. Even to walk up to a person whining about it and blame them doesn't make any sense.

Overall I see what you're saying, but the general trend has been to reduce the usefulness of racials to eliminate any major advantages, so anyone who thinks they're so overpowered is going to get nerfed sooner or later. In this case, I do think they ought to consider reworking the ability instead of doing what they're doing. I suspect that the outcry against this will cause some more changes.

[TheBigBB]

So.. having an extra trinket spot free to put a non-pvp based trinket in the spot is worthless? Really?

Technically, instead of a fixed racial, you get a PvP trinket built in, and then get to CHOOSE something else. (whatever you like!)
All other races ('cept humans) have to choose PvP trinket + "x" trinket. Then they get a fixed racial that has probably changed since they first rolled the character.

Undead and Humans really have the upper hand here in flexibility. You're just looking at the little picture, completely oblivious to the big picture.

Yeah, come to think of it, this is a pretty good tradeoff, but maybe it's just because I'm totally obsessive about min-maxing. The thing is, most people aren't very good at noticing the difference a few stat points can make, but if you ever won by a slight margin, just a small stat decrease could have made it a loss. For any fight where you wouldn't have needed the extra trinket, you'll be stronger...

[Naysayer]

When I remember to equip my pvp trinket I have very few fear bomb problems. Even without tremors.

i'm sure you do well in arena and/or non-casual pvp situations as well.



/sarcasm

[Naysayer]

So.. having an extra trinket spot free to put a non-pvp based trinket in the spot is worthless? Really?

Technically, instead of a fixed racial, you get a PvP trinket built in, and then get to CHOOSE something else. (whatever you like!)
All other races ('cept humans) have to choose PvP trinket + "x" trinket. Then they get a fixed racial that has probably changed since they first rolled the character.

Undead and Humans really have the upper hand here in flexibility. You're just looking at the little picture, completely oblivious to the big picture.

So if i don't use the pvp trinket because i have wotf then what do I do when a rogue stuns/saps/blinds me? What about all of the other cc that isn't a charm lol, sleep lol, or fear? It's not like we had

Every Man for HimselfRacialInstant2 min cooldownRemoves all movement impairing effects and all effects which cause loss of control of your character. This effect shares a cooldown with other similar effects.


I don't think you even know what wotf does.

[Naysayer]

Yeah, come to think of it, this is a pretty good tradeoff, but maybe it's just because I'm totally obsessive about min-maxing. The thing is, most people aren't very good at noticing the difference a few stat points can make, but if you ever won by a slight margin, just a small stat decrease could have made it a loss. For any fight where you wouldn't have needed the extra trinket, you'll be stronger...

Yah, it's pretty smart for undead to fill those trinket spots with stat trinkets.

/sapped

/blinded

/sheeped

/snared

ect ect

/partners are dead lol

Why did I sit in crowd control the whole fight? Um, because I have wotf and dont need a pvp trinket.
/kicked

[thinus]

OMG W(o)TF is Blizzard smoking? I leave for a few months, come back and they have given humans a racial every other race needs to spend a trinket slot on (on top of perception) and they keep nerfing WoTF into uselessness. And my poor troll rogue got a 15% decrease in the duration of movement impairing effects...

I wonder if they looked at the racial percentages and decided there are not enough humans on Alliance side and too many Undead on Horde side. So we screw with the racials and give people the ability to race change. And they pay us for it!!!! Someone in the Blizzard team got a promotion.

[Stealthy]

Your tears, I feed on them. QQ moar peeps, seriously it was one of the most OP racials for FIVE years, it's about time it got nerfed. This is coming from someone who was long time horde too.

I don't know why you think I'm QQ'ing...I was just stating what will happen if this change goes through.

I'm not saying "change it back NAO dammit!!!"

Orcs (blood fury), Taurens (warstomp) and Blood Elves (arcane torrent) will still have strong racials post patch. And with faction & race changes now available, I can pick whatever race I want, provided its available to that class.

However if you want to talk about OP racials, what makes the human racial the best racial for PvP is this reason - it continues to get more powerful as new trinkets are released. Just compare the Titan Forged trinkets to some of the other trinkets available now:

Titan-Forged Rune of Audacity
vs
Reign of the Dead
Difference: 57 SP and 150 to 370 DPS depending on crit rate

vs
Battlemaster's Ruination
Difference: 39 SP and 4.6K health when used

Humans can also use any combination of trinkets up to ilvl 258 including combinations like:

Shiny Shard of the Flame
Shiny Shard of the Scale

Reign of the Dead
Reign of the Dead (non-heroic, and yes they stack).

Flare of the Heavens
Eye of the Broodmother

And this gap is likely to become wider with the release of the next patch when better trinkets become available:

Cheers,
S.

[TheBigBB]

Yah, it's pretty smart for undead to fill those trinket spots with stat trinkets.

/sapped

/blinded

/sheeped

/snared

ect ect

/partners are dead lol

Why did I sit in crowd control the whole fight? Um, because I have wotf and dont need a pvp trinket.
/kicked

Yeah, I was thinking that most CC can be dispelled and fear was the most significant reason to use a PVP trinket, but I don't know what class you're PVPing with on undead.

[Fat Tire]

Absolutely Stealthy.

That human racial day's are numbered.

[TheBigBB]

Absolutely Stealthy.

That human racial day's are numbered.

Agreed. I can't figure out how that racial ever got the green light.

[Naysayer]

However if you want to talk about OP racials, what makes the human racial the best racial for PvP is this reason - it continues to get more powerful as new trinkets are released. Just compare the Titan Forged trinkets to some of the other trinkets available now:
Cheers,
S.

Racials need to be dropped completely, made the same for everybody, or set in stone permanently. I hope they aren't going to wreck each race one at a time in order to get a few extra $$ through race changes, but it really seems like that's what went on with wotf right after they opened up transfers and some people switched already.

[Naysayer]

I will agree that the timing is suspicious, especially with the graphic they are using to promote the service (undead to belf).

But WotF has always been the most controversial racial. Undead loved it, everyone else hated it. That pretty much sums up the last five years.

If it needed nerfed, it needed nerfed, but where's the compensation? Undead now have water breathing... Cannibalism.... and shadow resist...

They could have just removed the fear portion and we'd be better off. Using it now is death when it put's the trinket on cooldown. There's no point at all to use it instead of the trinket, and we have to have a trinket or we're toast because wotf doesn't cover 90% of the cc out there.

Change it, okay, but they went ahead and made it so bad that it's actually a major disadvantage to use it.

[Stealthy]

Fur & Nay - chill out already. Trolling / personal attack posts will be deleted.

[thinus]

I am a little confused with the "shared cooldown" as cooldown durations are different.
WotF - 45s
Trinket - 2m

So if you pop your trinket it triggers the cooldown on WotF right? But after 45s WotF is ready for use again but your trinket is still on a 1m 15s cooldown. If you pop WotF now, does it reset the trinket cooldown to 2m?

[Stealthy]

Racials are definitely not going away, as evidenced by Bliizard's announcement of the (strong IMO) racials for Worgen and Goblins. The best we can hope for is getting them balanced.

Aside from the human racial, if they are going to put a cooldown on WotF, then they should be doing the same to Escape Artist as well. Comparing them with each other:

(T) = requires talent points spent

Currently WotF is effective against 4 classes:
Warriors - Intimidating Shout
Warlocks - Fear, Howl Of Terror, Seduction
Priests - Psychic Scream, Mind Control
Hunters - Wyvern Sting (T)

Currently Escape Artist is effective against 9 classes:
Druids: Entangling Roots, Feral Charge (T)
Mages: Frost Nova, Slow (T), Cone Of Cold, Frost Bolt, Blast Wave (T), Improved Blizzard (T)
Hunters: Wing Clip, Frost Trap, Concussive Shot, Counter Attack (T)
Death Knight: Frost Fever (T), Chains of Ice
Priests: Mind Flay
Rogue: Crippling Poison, Deadly Throw
Shaman: Frost Shock, Earthbind Totem
Warlock: Curse of Exhaustion (T)
Warriors - Hamstring, Piercing Howl, Improved Thunder Clap (T)

Cheers,
S.

[Stealthy]

I am a little confused with the "shared cooldown" as cooldown durations are different.
WotF - 45s
Trinket - 2m

So if you pop your trinket it triggers the cooldown on WotF right? But after 45s WotF is ready for use again but your trinket is still on a 1m 15s cooldown. If you pop WotF now, does it reset the trinket cooldown to 2m?

Pop Tinket, trinket shows 2 min cooldown, WotF shows 45 sec cooldown.
Pop WotF, trinket and WotF both show a 45 sec cooldown

Its similar to the engineer Pyro rockets and on-use DPS boost trinkets (e.g. Platinum Disks of Sorcery) work - if you use one, the other is locked out for 10 secs.

Cheers,
S.

[Fat Tire]

The faction / race change is the same thing, except there is a financial aspect to it. They'll watch all the hardcore Arena / PvP / Raiders migrate to the idea race for each class, take notes, and nerf/adjust as the player based shows. (this time they get to make lots of money!).



Very true. However, as long as there are racials there will always be "the best" and min/max or player seeking any kind of advantage will migrate to that race. Blizzard's bait and switch tactics are kinda lame.

[TheBigBB]

I will agree that the timing is suspicious, especially with the graphic they are using to promote the service (undead to belf).

But WotF has always been the most controversial racial. Undead loved it, everyone else hated it. That pretty much sums up the last five years.

I don't think that makes sense when you think about it. The undead had a really useful racial that was causing people to be angry on a regular basis. It stands to reason that people would be likely to switch to undead if they didn't know about the change coming. If Blizzard were using this to milk money, they'd have waited quite a while longer to make this change to WOTF, getting some people to pay 2x for a race change.

[Ualaa]

I would think, the best reason to not play undead or to not switch to undead, is to avoid the stench of your own rotting corpse.

Racials are clearly secondary to this.

[thinus]

I would think, the best reason to not play undead or to not switch to undead, is to avoid the stench of your own rotting corpse.

Racials are clearly secondary to this.

Everyone's own stench smells good to them. Its the other people that will be thankful you don't play undead as they won't have to wear scented masks whenever you are near.

[Stealthy]

How do you smell without a nose?

I'd ask Michael Jackson, but he's dead! :D

I was having a think about the whole racials debate...and I thought this might be a good idea:

Pool all the racial traits, divide them into major and minor traits. Allow characters to select 1 or 2 major and 2 minor skills (somewhat similar to glyphs) at character creation.

This would bring choosing a race purely down to aesthetics. Obviously the wouldnt be called racial traits anymore, maybe something like background skills, each with some accompanying flavor text when chosen at the character creation screen.

What do you guys think?

Cheers,
S.

[Drizhal]

I'd ask Michael Jackson, but he's dead! :D

I was having a think about the whole racials debate...and I thought this might be a good idea:

Pool all the racial traits, divide them into major and minor traits. Allow characters to select 1 or 2 major and 2 minor skills (somewhat similar to glyphs) at character creation.

This would bring choosing a race purely down to aesthetics. Obviously the wouldnt be called racial traits anymore, maybe something like background skills, each with some accompanying flavor text when chosen at the character creation screen.

What do you guys think?

Cheers,
S.
This, it's similiar to EQ2's progression racial/class thingies that you got to choose, but easier to understand and only once! It makes sense, seems fair and therefore will most likely not happen =P

[Ualaa]

I like it, but don't really see Blizz implementing it.