5 Man PVP - Healer Worth It?

[jddc78]

Hey all,

I've been trying to use my RaF time to the max and currently have a caster PvE party (all at 60) as well as a melee PvE party (all at 33). I'd like to assemble a PvP party as my last group to mix things up a little bit.

I'd like to go with a Warlock heavy party for a few reasons:
1. I always liked the flexibility of the class in PvP
2. Will enable me to stay mobile and lack of facing issues will be huge in simplifying fights.
3. This team is intended for BGs primarily. I'll do arenas, but expect to lose to all but the sorriest of teams.

What I'm not sure about is whether adding a healer of some sort would be a plus or minus for this team? Keep in mind I want this team to remain as mobile as possible. So I'm thinking a druid(maybe a priest) would be ideal due to their HoTs being castable on the run. The other option would be a 5 lock team.

For those of you with PvP experience in similar setups, was the healer worth it in the long run? Would a 5th lock have been more useful? Was I correct in assuming druid would work best with this group or would you have taken a different class?

[Owltoid]

It is helpful to have a rezzer or two. My experience is with 5 druids and there are times when I need to rez a toon. I would suggest at least one healer. If it's for BGs, where you're not guaranteed to be in the same group so totems may be pointless, then with locks a druid or pally is probably best (druid for mobility, pally for plate/bubble to make sure your rezzer doesn't die).

[stoat]

i find that it's fairly hard to manage the healer in pvp. With priest + 4 warlocks anyway. What usually ends up happening is the priest gets focused - so in a equal numbers encounter what this does allow you to do is free cast with the locks and blow up several people while your priest is dying. In something like AV is this less useful. Certainly having a pocket healer is useful - it's just hard to play nearly as efficiently as say, another lock, or other 'spam this button, watch something die' class.

[Smoooth]

I've done locks and resto druids and the druids are definitely worth it. Not only will they heal you without facing issues and on the move but they will heal everyone else around you with the endless wild growths. People will protect your healer. And like owltoid has said you should really have at least 1 resser. It's so annoying when you have 1 killed and no way to get him other than running to the GY.

[jddc78]

It's so annoying when you have 1 killed and no way to get him other than running to the GY.
This is my absolute biggest worry and the reason I was leaning towards bringing a healer in the first place. I could see lots of instances where I would win an encounter only to have 1 or 2 fall by the wayside. But those 1 or 2 would effectively act as a wipe since I'd have to go get the others again. I figured if this was going to happen then I might as well just go kamikaze and get it over with.

Stoat, I definitely see what you mean about it upping the difficulty level a lot. In my PvE groups, I have pretty solid healing macros set up for each char that have served me well even in pinches. But with all of the conditional elements that PvP brings to the table I can see these macros completely breaking down and putting me in some bad situations.

With a healer, I think I'll pilot the group with him and that way I can use some of the better healing mods to assist in the situations that will come up. That's a luxury I've never had in PvE since tanking is so much more important. Since the locks are low-maintenance dps, this should work out well in theory.

All this info sounds encouraging and thanks for your inputI take it you guys rotate soulstones onto your healer as well to get the most uptime out of your group?

[Meshuggenah]

I don't know how anyone boxes any group in PvP without a shaman. One fear and you're toast. BG's/Arena will be a very frustrating experience for you after a few people learn how easily they can wreck your setup by simply fear bombing you.

[shaeman]

A mutlbox group is as susceptible to fear bombs as any single player.

So they have the same facilities available to them. Racials, in some cases, trinkets in others.
With the advent of click to move and interact with target, regrouping can be easier.
In arena I imagine it will be very rough but in BG's not so much.

I've recently started a DK team - it will be 4 DK's and a priest. All undead.
One trinket, one will of the forsaken.

For the warlocks mentioned in the thread I'm wondering if the teleport facility could be used.
e.g they lay down the teleport and stand away from it. Surveying the team you know whether a fear bomb is even likely.
If a rush is incoming, dot up and teleport. I don't know if the teleport is instant cast though and that could be a huge flaw in my strategy.

[Meshuggenah]

A mutlbox group is as susceptible to fear bombs as any single player.

I disagree. A boxed group is a much bigger target than any single player. How often to Rogue's or fear classes intentionally seek out and stalk individual characters in WG's/BG's? Happen's to me frequently as a boxer. The fear-ers usually give up immediately when they realize it has no effect.

All it takes is a single player smart enough to realize that he can shaft your whole group by simply following you around and fear bombing you, and you will spend more time running around trying to regroup your alts than contributing to the BG.

[jddc78]

I don't know how anyone boxes any group in PvP without a shaman


Going to give it a try and see how it goes ;). While I see your point in the usefulness of tremor totem, I already have 2 shaman in each of my PvE groups. Even if they are a great PvP class, I really don't want another Shaman heavy group. I like the idea of a completely mobile kiting-style group for PvP.

I know there are going to be plenty of times people will get the jump on this group and cause some havoc, it's the fact that I can continue running around and ignore facing issues (while dotting up my opponent) that appeals to me with this group. When people drop fear bombs on me I'm just going to have to hope that I've already dropped 8-12 dots on them while I'm hopelessly running around. If not, I'll just have to use a recovery method or tip my hat to them for picking me apart. I can live with another opponent beating me ... I get frustrated when my inability to control the party (such as facing/following/etc) leads to my demise.

[shaeman]

. How often to Rogue's or fear classes intentionally seek out and stalk individual characters in WG's/BG's? Happen's to me frequently as a boxer. The fear-ers usually give up immediately when they realize it has no effect.

All it takes is a single player smart enough to realize that he can shaft your whole group by simply following you around and fear bombing you, and you will spend more time running around trying to regroup your alts than contributing to the BG.

Rogues I would say spend a lot of time stalking down individual players, prior to the broken form of fan of knives that was all they would do - and preferably clothies. I know - I solo played a warlock, and my poor locks back resembles a pin cushion from all the alliance rogues that made friends with him :)

Aoe fear classes look for groups of characters. A multiboxer falls in to that category so it may feel like you are being targetted. However if you weren't around I can bet they are rushing in to other groups of the enemy and aoe fearing.

Again, on my solo lock i would be looking for groups of enemy.

1. to sew seed of corruption or 2. to rush in to a group defending something and scatter them.
I broke many groups of alliance guarding the gy outside the bosses bunker using a kamikaze howl of terror run.

Of course in Arena you are likely to run into folks with multiple aoe fears and coordination which makes it a big issue.

[Meshuggenah]

Have you considered using a Shaman as a healer, then?

If you're really OK with no TT's, then I'd suggest a full priest group. That's what I'd be rolling I wasn't concerned about fear. 4Priests+Mage or simply 5Priests. Some people might say a Warlock over a Mage as the 5th, but I personally think Mage sync's much better.

Priests at least have FearWard. And an impressive amount of DoT's, instant party heals, single burst and a ranged AoE.

[Meshuggenah]

Aoe fear classes look for groups of characters. A multiboxer falls in to that category so it may feel like you are being targetted. However if you weren't around I can bet they are rushing in to other groups of the enemy and aoe fearing.

I think you're underestimating how much people dislike Multiboxers. Especially after you've killed them a few times. I frequently have individual characters stalk me in BG's just to disrupt my group. Fearing, sapping one of my shamans when I'm trying to move between points or defend something. Frequently they won't even attack. They're just either annoyed because they died, or dislike multiboxing and want to do everything they can to irritate you.

Occasionally, which is worse, it's an organized group and they will assign one of these classes specifically to follow you around and prevent you from contributing.. which, without a reliable way to break fear (even single fear), isn't hard. Doesn't happen much in zerg's like AV/WG, but in BG10's all it takes is a single Rogue/Lock to keep a multiboxer occupied and turn it into a 9v5 BG. Granted, TT has no effect on Rogues, but you can't really compare trinket or WoTF to TremorTotem in those situations.

[jddc78]

Have you considered using a Shaman as a healer, then?

I LOVE resto shamans as healers in my PvE groups, but they would not be very good for this group. The issue comes back to mobility. I don't want to stop with this group ... ever if I can get away with it. My mobility is my biggest asset. Any time I stop I'll be increasing the odds that I can get feared, stunned, sapped, AoEed, etc. All are considerably easier to pull off on a stationary target or targets. This is why I chose locks are my primary DPS - they do not need to face the target to do considerable dmg. I can start running and never stop - as long as I can keep my group from getting CCed of course ;). Your suggestion of all priests could be a cool group to run as well. I could see that also being a very mobile group.

The only 2 healers I really considered for this group are the druid or the priest because I need them to keep moving with the group while they heal. While not all of their healing abilities are possible while moving, they can load a target up with HoTs and the priest can do the same as well as shield. That selection was probably a tossup.

[heyaz]

It's definitely nice to carry a healer along, I mostly leveled my priest just for that. I've found the paladin to be kinda worthless - can't cast and run, no good aoe heals. I would run a druid (for wild growth and hots) or a priest (circle of healing, holy nova, prayer of mending, etc.) and just set up some decent healing macros. They obviously won't function as well as a real person playing the healer, but it definitely makes a difference.

I'd definitely do the healer with all warlocks though, since you can't really heal yourself.

[shaeman]

I think you're underestimating how much people dislike Multiboxers. Especially after you've killed them a few times. I frequently have individual characters stalk me in BG's just to disrupt my group. Fearing, sapping one of my shamans when I'm trying to move between points or defend something. Frequently they won't even attack. They're just either annoyed because they died, or dislike multiboxing and want to do everything they can to irritate you.

Occasionally, which is worse, it's an organized group and they will assign one of these classes specifically to follow you around and prevent you from contributing.. which, without a reliable way to break fear (even single fear), isn't hard. Doesn't happen much in zerg's like AV/WG, but in BG10's all it takes is a single Rogue/Lock to keep a multiboxer occupied and turn it into a 9v5 BG. Granted, TT has no effect on Rogues, but you can't really compare trinket or WoTF to TremorTotem in those situations.

I know exactly how much folks like to focus on boxers - as i've already stated I levelled 95% from 66 - 80 in battlegrounds.
You seem to contradict yourself - in an earlier post you state that you get "stalked" by these AOE fear classes, but they soon give up when they realise your tremor totem makes you immune. Yet in this post you are saying that you can get locked down by a single rogue or a warlock. Something isn't adding up here.

To the original poster - i planned on 4 warlocks and a priest. Holy nova heals and damages. cast on the move and with a discipline priest can shield.

[Multibocks]

I dont like having a healer in my groups. Yes it sucks when your group gets split up, but by far your healer will be the first target to go down. I had a 4 Dk 1 druid group and the druid was dead 90% of the time. Whats the point of a healer to res someone when that someone is the healer. I advocate all of one class for that reason alone.

[jddc78]

I dont like having a healer in my groups. Yes it sucks when your group gets split up, but by far your healer will be the first target to go down. I had a 4 Dk 1 druid group and the druid was dead 90% of the time. Whats the point of a healer to res someone when that someone is the healer. I advocate all of one class for that reason alone.

Do you think this would still be a huge issue for a mobile ranged team? Would soulstones help out? I imagine early on I'm going to see a lot of dead toons till I can get my gear up to snuff either way. But by the middle/higher gear levels, if my healer is dead over half the time - then you're right. I'd be better off going with all the same toons.

[shaeman]

My gut feeling would be that with an incredibly mobile group such as the warlocks a healer running with them might fare better. I imagine DK's would want to be involved in a fight more, leading to more vulnerability for the healer.

Constant running into range, dotting everything up and running away again. Aoe fears and deathcoils to get rid of pursuers. I like the idea of a discipline priest as the healer though. Glyphed holy nova would heal your guys and damage anyone in range and it can apply a shield of some sort. The priest can pain suppress themselves too.
(and isnt there reflective shielding throwing damage back).

Also if you have one of the afflocks specced into curse of exhaustion you could make it harder for a lot of classes to catch up to you.

Then again the disc priest could also be turned into a shadow priest if the healing isn't working out.

[EaTCarbS]

I do BGs with 4 ele shaman and 1 resto druid, and its op =)

[Ualaa]

If you're going warlocks, I'd probably go with druids for the healing partners.
Either 3 locks and 2 druids or the reverse.

Druids give you Lifebloom and Rejuvenation as instant casts.
Regrowth as a fast casting HoT.
They can spec'd a fair ways into Balance for fun that way.
Insect Swarm and Moonfire as two dots for offense.
They add root, battlerez, normal rez, mark/thorns etc.

Three locks gets you a lot more offense.
Affliction - Corruption, Agony, Haunt, Unstable Affliction, Immolate.
Destruction - Corruption, Agony, Immolate, Conflagrate, Chaos Bolt, AoE stun.
Demon - Corruption, Agony, Immolate, Felguard, Immolation Aura etc.
Plus 2x Insect Swarm, Moonfire, Rejuvenation, Lifebloom.

Alternatively say 1x Disc, 1x Resto (Dru), 3x Warlocks.
Priest has SW: Pain and Devouring Plague, to match the Moonfire and Insect Swarm.
You get PW: Shield and Renew as instants instead of Rejuvenation and Lifebloom as instants.
Mass Dispel, Fear Ward, Shadow Protection, Fort/Spirit to go with Mark/Thorns.

Two locks probably gets you Affliction x2 or Affliction + Destruction.
Even two destruction would get you...
3x Moonfire, 3x Insect Swarm, 2x Corruption, 2x Agony... which is still 10 instant cast dots on 2 casts.
With UA from one of the locks, no one will want to decurse them off.



Starbuck Jones in another thread had a click sequence posted where his druids were automatically casting some hots on everyone and extra hots on the tank, as part of their dps click spam macro's.

[daviddoran]

I might try gettting fancy with heals when i get around to leveling my 5 boomkins, but for PvP, I just prefer 5x DPS. I love my shaman team because healing is so easy. I either cast LHW on each toon, on himself, or cast mass chain heal on one target, and I've seen that buy enough time for reinforcements to arrive, rather than let my allies get picked off one by one. I usually pick someone who's doing a lot of DPS, and therefore draws attention of the enemy, so popping 5 big heals on those guys really pisses off the enemy... especially if that person is a 35k hp warrior that they have been working on for a while... I also mass chain heal whenever someone tries to AoE me, and that sure pisses em off too...

My idea eventually is to try the 3 locks 2 resto druid method. Highly mobile team, just run and dot/hot. Ill probably do one Destro for aoe stun, 1 affliction for dots, and 1 Demo for a felguard, and demonic pact, which should be a nice dps boost to everyone. I like the idea of hybrid resto/balance, just use casterform.

[shaeman]

Alternatively say 1x Disc, 1x Resto (Dru), 3x Warlocks.
Priest has SW: Pain and Devouring Plague, to match the Moonfire and Insect Swarm.
You get PW: Shield and Renew as instants instead of Rejuvenation and Lifebloom as instants.
Mass Dispel, Fear Ward, Shadow Protection, Fort/Spirit to go with Mark/Thorns.


I love this idea.

Some extra buffs. Shield and renew when rejuvinating.
Wild growth to supplement holy nova for some quick aoe healing.
Prayer of mending for some healing jumps.

If only I could face getting those 3 pesky warlocks up from level 10

[Naysayer]

I love this idea.

Some extra buffs. Shield and renew when rejuvinating.
Wild growth to supplement holy nova for some quick aoe healing.
Prayer of mending for some healing jumps.

If only I could face getting those 3 pesky warlocks up from level 10

I was just going to say that. Also, sounds like it would be really easy to do, as odd as it would seem. Even though there's 3 different class they would have very similar keybinds.

They'd be fully mobile and if one healer is focused the other could keep him up.