Grrr - can't decide on team!

[Fuzzyboy]

I'm currenlty on the verge of creating a new team. My existing team is meant to stay as my PvE team and I'm now taking the dive into PvP.

I've been told that 4 shaman + healer is the best team for arena and I'd be disappointed if my PvP wasn't viable in arena - even if it does take a lot of training and paying my dues. Still, I started out with a 5-shaman team on a pvp server back in the days. I added a paladin later on. Then a druid. Then a priest and a mage. I feels like going "back".

On the other hand, I see the paladin teams looking pretty good (dk + palas or 5 paladins) - are paladins viable in arena? I imagine amz + grip + chain stun could be pretty nice for singling casters, but again, pretty much only in bg I assume. I hear warlocks + healer is good also, although mostly in BG - not viable in arena?

Info is much appreciated - I'd be sorry to level a new team to 80, only to find out they don't work in arena. I guess my question can be boiled down to - other than shaman x 4, are there any viable arena teams?

[asonimie]

If arena is on your mind, I would have to say ya... do shamans. Don't feel like it's a step backwards, shamans are a completely different beast than in BC. Any of those melee teams (dk's pallies etc) sound great on paper, but good arena teams will kite you all over the place as they destroy you from range.

I am currently gearing and doing arena with what I believe could be the next best team - 4 affliction locks, but it's very difficult and my gear is still very poor at this point so results aren't great.

Usually I would say do what you think is fun, but arena is pretty form-fitting.

[Owltoid]

What kind of healer are you using asonimie?

[asonimie]

Using druid / pally at the moment. Mostly because the druid is the alt my shaman's priest healer, so he knows the ropes. I'm undecided which is the best combo tho.

[Owltoid]

How are fears against your team w/o any protection? (or are you undead so you get two?)

I'm debating a 3 aff lock, 2 healer team, but that's so far down the line that I doubt it happens this year. Keep us updated on your locks and what you think works/doesn't work!

[asonimie]

Part of my theory is that fears actually help in a way. The advantage is that my locks perform just as well if not better when spread apart. With no requirements to cast time / facing... the only downside is the lost time while feared.

[Owltoid]

I definitely see your point, though affliction locks are probably the only class that can say that due to not having to face the target. I wonder if controlling a pally healer and having 4 slave locks is the best way. It seems odd to make a healer your main, but the locks can just go where they please (assuming still within range). Hell, even make a druid healer so you can constantly be rounding everyone up while casting away.

[Void]

have you won any games yet as locks? i got 4 sitting at 61 and been dieing to start a new team plus with my shamans basicaly maxed on gear and just waiting for arena points i need somthing to do. What kind of results are you having and what seems to be biggest issue so far other than gear?

[asonimie]

Um its just so hard to say. Until I get more SP, I won't be winning because I'm going against 1700+ teams (thanks a lot transfered MMR). I've won some. Im sitting at about exactly 2000 spellpower (which isn't enough), 500 res, and 21k health. Right now I'm just working on movement / teleports / pet control.

During matches where I actually DPSd, I put up 2 globals(UA+Corr) on a few enemies, I watched their health go 100% - 40% - 100% - 40% and so on. Theory is, get enough people doing that and a fear will finish off 3 people. Like I said, right now I'm working more on seduction rotations, teleport shapes.

Its a WHOLE different beast than shamans lol. But if you're bored and thinking about leveling them, do it! They are a riot in BGs, and I would imagine one of the best pure dps classes to box. Affliction is SOO easy and fun to multibox while leveling. Just tab dot tab dot tab dot TAP (repeat)

And also, I'm not boxing the healer.. . the healer is a different player. I dont think playing all 5 would be fun or worth it. Same reasons as always.

[Fuzzyboy]

Um its just so hard to say. Until I get more SP, I won't be winning because I'm going against 1700+ teams (thanks a lot transfered MMR). I've won some. Im sitting at about exactly 2000 spellpower (which isn't enough), 500 res, and 21k health. Right now I'm just working on movement / teleports / pet control.

During matches where I actually DPSd, I put up 2 globals(UA+Corr) on a few enemies, I watched their health go 100% - 40% - 100% - 40% and so on. Theory is, get enough people doing that and a fear will finish off 3 people. Like I said, right now I'm working more on seduction rotations, teleport shapes.

Its a WHOLE different beast than shamans lol. But if you're bored and thinking about leveling them, do it! They are a riot in BGs, and I would imagine one of the best pure dps classes to box. Affliction is SOO easy and fun to multibox while leveling. Just tab dot tab dot tab dot TAP (repeat)

And also, I'm not boxing the healer.. . the healer is a different player. I dont think playing all 5 would be fun or worth it. Same reasons as always.

How is it going with the warlocks? I've started a warlock team myself (4 locks + druid healer), just to try it out and it's a lot of fun. Only problem (as opposed to the 4 shammies + pala/dk) is that they're not viable for heroics, which again means that the gear grind at 80 will be a lot slower.

Since they're only lvl 18 atm, I'm doing some WSG, which is insanely fun (they top the charts every BG), but xp is so slow I could cry. Hopefully AB will be better.

As for the shammies, I've considered reusing my old ones. I have two lvl 80 shammies, one retired, one in good gear and a paladin, also in good gear. If I transfer my BC-shammies (both lvl 70) , I could have a 80 team pretty quickly, so I'm just trying out the warlocks and seeing if they're worth it. Anyway, I'd love to hear more about you experience with the locks. For instance - how is it like playing BG's with them, compared to shammies?

[Kromtor]

I think there are a lot of viable arena teams out there for multiboxers. The popularity of shamans is probably due to the fact that people know it's possible so they don't give up as quickly. Likewise, the nonboxing herd doesn't stray far from the FOTM groups popularized by other people who have proven their effectiveness. Any melee group with 1 or more DK's and a healer, any casting group with enough burst to kill in the span of a GCD and a healer is going to be viable. I just stomped a 2200+ team 3 times in a row with a 0 healer team. Just wait until I finish engineering =)

[Fuzzyboy]

I think there are a lot of viable arena teams out there for multiboxers. The popularity of shamans is probably due to the fact that people know it's possible so they don't give up as quickly. Likewise, the nonboxing herd doesn't stray far from the FOTM groups popularized by other people who have proven their effectiveness. Any melee group with 1 or more DK's and a healer, any casting group with enough burst to kill in the span of a GCD and a healer is going to be viable. I just stomped a 2200+ team 3 times in a row with a 0 healer team. Just wait until I finish engineering =)

I think you're right about the "knowing that it's possible" - I'm sure there are plenty of viable MB-combos out there, that haven't been discovered yet, but if your goal is arena, it's pretty sucky to level up a team from level 1 to find out it isn't working out. So it's a pretty high risk business.

Also, clothies are a bit squishy - I think warlocks might be viable, but I can think of a few problems. Affliction works well with multiboxing because you can cast and move and you are less suspectible to fearbombs since you just need to be in range to cast. However, affliction doesn't really have a lot of burst. Destruction may be an option - a shadow fury rotation could be mean and with a good burst possibility. A combo of the three trees might work very well also. Hmm, the more I'm typing, the more I'm seeing possibilities :-)

One thing I find missing about the warlock team is the inability to do heroics. Doing heroics speeds up the gearing process a LOT at 80 and I can't even begin to comprehend how long it'll take to grind up enough honor for a set of deadly gear for my locks doing just AV and the like.

The shaman team is nice, not only because it's proven, but also because it's versatile - you can run both PvE and PvP content with them. PvE paired with a tank, PvP with a healer. I guess all hybrids have that option though. Druids could be good also. Possibly feral druids + DK could be entertaining... Hmm.

[asonimie]

I think you're right about the "knowing that it's possible" - I'm sure there are plenty of viable MB-combos out there, that haven't been discovered yet, but if your goal is arena, it's pretty sucky to level up a team from level 1 to find out it isn't working out. So it's a pretty high risk business.

Also, clothies are a bit squishy - I think warlocks might be viable, but I can think of a few problems. Affliction works well with multiboxing because you can cast and move and you are less suspectible to fearbombs since you just need to be in range to cast. However, affliction doesn't really have a lot of burst. Destruction may be an option - a shadow fury rotation could be mean and with a good burst possibility. A combo of the three trees might work very well also. Hmm, the more I'm typing, the more I'm seeing possibilities :-)

One thing I find missing about the warlock team is the inability to do heroics. Doing heroics speeds up the gearing process a LOT at 80 and I can't even begin to comprehend how long it'll take to grind up enough honor for a set of deadly gear for my locks doing just AV and the like.

The shaman team is nice, not only because it's proven, but also because it's versatile - you can run both PvE and PvP content with them. PvE paired with a tank, PvP with a healer. I guess all hybrids have that option though. Druids could be good also. Possibly feral druids + DK could be entertaining... Hmm.

I can do heroics on the locks. Tons of DPS compared to when I did shamans. Bosses are tough, some impossible. But trash is easysauce. Just gotta have a really good tank that can survive some hits and heal, like a blood DK tank.

[Fuzzyboy]

I can do heroics on the locks. Tons of DPS compared to when I did shamans. Bosses are tough, some impossible. But trash is easysauce. Just gotta have a really good tank that can survive some hits and heal, like a blood DK tank.

Well, killing the trash won't give me any emblems :P Atm I can do pretty much all the good heroics in like 2-3 hours depending on how lazy I am, for about 40 emblems per day + 2 triumphs. With no healer it would be next to impossible to get a good rate going and I'd have to do a rotation (swap a different lock for the tank each day), which I guess is possible, but still kind of a pain. Although now that I think about it, it would only make the emblem rate 1/3 less, meaning somewhere around 30 emblems per day on average... Hmm....

[SFbase]

I'm lvl'ing my first team which is 5 locks. They are currently lvl 69, and all demo spec. Demo spec is nice with meta, fel guards, and added survivability. I don't know about arena yet, but in BGs it is so much fun! It's funny watching 5 fel guards destroying a DK. Plus if you chain their charge attack, it's like 5 extra stuns ready to go. If melee class gets up in my face, I cast meta with immolation aura, and everything around me dies (I've made allies in AV wipe on galv doing that a lot). If i wanna instant kill someone, I cast 5 deathcoils at once, followed by a healthy can of fel guard whoop ass. Anyway, even if you don't use them for arena, it's just fun to play them.

[Ualaa]

BG's are a whole other game from Arena.

In BG's, you can have a full stack of dots on someone, as they concentrate on killing someone else.
Then they start to curse and wonder where you are.
That doesn't happen in Arena much.

A team at 80th is worth having, they can run dailies and supply an upcoming team with 1000g a day, for under an hour of play time. A few days of dailies and a new team has gold for quite a while. Epic flyers in Burning Crusade (at 60th or 61st) makes that so much easier for leveling, as does Cold Flying at 70th in Wrath.

[Fuzzyboy]

BG's are a whole other game from Arena.

In BG's, you can have a full stack of dots on someone, as they concentrate on killing someone else.
Then they start to curse and wonder where you are.
That doesn't happen in Arena much.

A team at 80th is worth having, they can run dailies and supply an upcoming team with 1000g a day, for under an hour of play time. A few days of dailies and a new team has gold for quite a while. Epic flyers in Burning Crusade (at 60th or 61st) makes that so much easier for leveling, as does Cold Flying at 70th in Wrath.

Yeah, burst damage is definitely needed, but affliction locks isn't the oonly way to go. Destruction has very good burst - and good CC, although I must admit I'm not sure on how diminishing returns work with stuns.

[Fuzzyboy]

I'm lvl'ing my first team which is 5 locks. They are currently lvl 69, and all demo spec. Demo spec is nice with meta, fel guards, and added survivability. I don't know about arena yet, but in BGs it is so much fun! It's funny watching 5 fel guards destroying a DK. Plus if you chain their charge attack, it's like 5 extra stuns ready to go. If melee class gets up in my face, I cast meta with immolation aura, and everything around me dies (I've made allies in AV wipe on galv doing that a lot). If i wanna instant kill someone, I cast 5 deathcoils at once, followed by a healthy can of fel guard whoop ass. Anyway, even if you don't use them for arena, it's just fun to play them.

The above poster is right - BG's and arena are very different games. At least until rated BG's start, and by then the rated pvp players will be coming to the BG's and it won't be quite the same anymore. But anyway, most teams are viable in BG, although I can imagine the locks are more fun than most - at least they have been for me so far :)

[BobGnarly]

I wouldn't necessarily agree that burst is "needed." Remember the drain-teams of a few seasons back? They functioned off of the concept of just running your opponents oom.

Like where asonimie is going with his locks: dot a lot of people up and start fearing stuff. Who knows if it'll be competitive, but it's a new approach, and you never know what can work until you try it.

Having said all that, I'd have a hard time giving up the shaman. The can just do sooo many different things, and the stacking of totems just pushes it over the top.

[Ualaa]

Druids (Balance/Resto hybrids) might be a good option for BG/Arena play.

With Insect Swarm and Moonfire, you have two dot spells, which equates to eight dots on the target.
I'm assuming, like a warlock, you won't need to worry about facing.
Insect Swarm glyphed definitely has a bite.

In PvE, my druids are very sickening (in a good way).
With 5x Rejuvenation and 5x Regrowth on a druid, they're basically immune to damage.
They don't even have Lifebloom yet.

My favorite druid spec (prior to Wild Growth) was Dreamstate.
Basically I'd go to Moonkin in Balance and to Swfitmend in Resto.
Going deeper in Balance would allow for Typhoon, Starfall, Eclipse etc, but you'd have to manage Eclipse procs.
Going deeper in Resto would allow for Treeform.
Personally Moonkin is the better choice, because we'd likely have a 5th member playing healer already.
Not sure that you'd need a whole lot of Resto points, with a dedicated healer.

Anyway, two fairly decent dots per druid.
The option for strong HoT's to support the healer.
Cyclone on round robin or as interrupts.
Root vs melee types.
Moonkin or Treeform for far better armor then a cloth warlock.

It has potential.

[Fuzzyboy]

Druids (Balance/Resto hybrids) might be a good option for BG/Arena play.

With Insect Swarm and Moonfire, you have two dot spells, which equates to eight dots on the target.
I'm assuming, like a warlock, you won't need to worry about facing.
Insect Swarm glyphed definitely has a bite.

In PvE, my druids are very sickening (in a good way).
With 5x Rejuvenation and 5x Regrowth on a druid, they're basically immune to damage.
They don't even have Lifebloom yet.

My favorite druid spec (prior to Wild Growth) was Dreamstate.
Basically I'd go to Moonkin in Balance and to Swfitmend in Resto.
Going deeper in Balance would allow for Typhoon, Starfall, Eclipse etc, but you'd have to manage Eclipse procs.
Going deeper in Resto would allow for Treeform.
Personally Moonkin is the better choice, because we'd likely have a 5th member playing healer already.
Not sure that you'd need a whole lot of Resto points, with a dedicated healer.

Anyway, two fairly decent dots per druid.
The option for strong HoT's to support the healer.
Cyclone on round robin or as interrupts.
Root vs melee types.
Moonkin or Treeform for far better armor then a cloth warlock.

It has potential.

I like druids for their versatility too, but the eclipse management is a pretty big turn-off. Basically, managing one druid's eclipse is a pain, although it's doable. Managing 4/5 druids eclipses is just not going to happen and you'll end up with a /castrandom starfire, wrath - although that is quite good dps also I should mention!

They have good armor, good dps and good AE, but are not very bursty and I think a bit suspectible to fear in terms of arena and BG. While their dots do have bite, it can't really be compared to a warlocks. Having said that, I still think they're viable, especially with a dedicated shaman healer (for tremor).