AV xp nerf in 3.2.2 [Archive]

Souca

09-22-2009, 03:42 PM

Thank all the AFK XP farmers.

I can't imagine anyone expecting it to last.

Screw that. If Blizzard can't make an AFK report system that works then thats their problem. I never AFK'd, so I'm not going to accept my playing experience suffering because of Blizz not being able to handle it. Add this into the fact that there is now an 80 only bracket for AV, both undocumented, and I'm a little upset.

My copy of Aion arrives today. Normally Blizz is smart about handling other games launching, but this makes me not want to play WoW right now. I'm probably being emo, but damn it, I pay to have fun and if they make something I really enjoyed suck, then that pisses me off.

*grumble*

- Souca -

Fat Tire

09-22-2009, 03:50 PM

Yes heirloom should now work - this was confirmed as a bug that was going to be fixed in 3.2.2 - we do not have the patch here yet so I can not confirm this in game though

Aye they do work. 20% on top of 12k for an AV win gave me 15k. Towers gave 11,800. So overall about a 35% reduction with both heirlooms in AV. Still not too bad, with less 80s in AV I think horde will win more on avg. I think I only lost maybe 5 games 61-70 AV as horde. Before 3.2.2 Alliance won 75-80% on my BG 71-80.

wrs

09-22-2009, 04:13 PM

Aye they do work. 20% on top of 12k for an AV win gave me 15k. Towers gave 11,800. So overall about a 35% reduction with both heirlooms in AV. Still not too bad, with less 80s in AV I think horde will win more on avg. I think I only lost maybe 5 games 61-70 AV as horde. Before 3.2.2 Alliance won 75-80% on my BG 71-80.

I thought the shoulders were only a 10% bonus?

Fat Tire

09-22-2009, 04:15 PM

I thought the shoulders were only a 10% bonus?

Yup and chest adds another 10%

Coltimar

09-22-2009, 04:21 PM

The game was getting too enjoyable. They had to let a bunch of idiots spoil it again.

Ridere

09-22-2009, 04:24 PM

So here's the big question then.

I was really hoping to get my Mage x5 and Druid x5 teams up from 70 to 80 before the Halloween event. They have full rested exp, and I have the Cloth Heriloom Shoulders and Chest for 20% increase.

Would it be faster to still run AV from 71-80 (After doing some initial questing in Borean for gear upgrades and to bridge the 70-71 gap), or should I just run quests with both teams with Heirlooms and Rested Exp?

I never got to experience the 71-80 AV run before, so I'm not sure how fast it really is compared to questing.

Any guesses on which would be better?

Psych

09-22-2009, 04:32 PM

Whew, glad I got my druid group mostly leveled up before this stealth nerf...it does make sense though, I was pulling down 450k experience per hour all day long in there last weekend. That beats quest/grind leveling as a 5 group for sure. 225k per hour is much more realistic...

bartholomeo

09-22-2009, 04:36 PM

Ridere

09-22-2009, 04:39 PM

It was too good to be true. I'm glad i lvl up my last shaman to 80 a week ago.

@ ridere : I did the last 3 lvl's in AV when my first 4 were 80 ( blizzard wouldn't take my visa ), and that took me about 2 evenings of playing. 10-11% when we won. 2-3% when we lost.

Yah. I know it was the best route for us boxers to take before. My main question is if it's still better to exp in AV as a 5 boxer (even though it'll be slower than it was before). or if it'd be better to quest. I'd have both Heirloom pieces for either choice, and I'd have full rested exp for the quest route.

Any ideas? I really want to try and get both teams to 80 by the halloween event, so I can have as many chances a day to farm that mount :D

Fat Tire

09-22-2009, 04:41 PM

One thing though that I can confirm is that the Inactive debuff kicks you out fast!!! Someone was talking about it and I said report me so I can test and bam 1min and kicked/deserter debuff. So now everyone who just chills in the cave jumping/bot jumping every couple of mins will get kicked out of the game instead of just sitting in the cave as a purple dot. ;p As soon as you go inactive you get booted!

Fat Tire

09-22-2009, 04:46 PM

Yah. I know it was the best route for us boxers to take before. My main question is if it's still better to exp in AV as a 5 boxer (even though it'll be slower than it was before). or if it'd be better to quest. I'd have both Heirloom pieces for either choice, and I'd have full rested exp for the quest route.

Any ideas? I really want to try and get both teams to 80 by the halloween event, so I can have as many chances a day to farm that mount :D

Honestly with both heirlooms I still think its the way to go from 71-80. At the very least if you do it while questing, if the queues are long you are getting some quests done instead of waiting for the queues to pop.

daviddoran

09-22-2009, 05:17 PM

I'm also glad I grinded it out last weekend on my 5 shaman. I still think it's the best way to go. No more getting steamrolled by 80s means that boxers are likely the most powerful force in the bracket. And now that they fixed heirlooms it's not as bad, 30% nerf rather than 50%

Coltimar

09-22-2009, 05:21 PM

Man, on my 70-71 team I got less xp in an hour of AV than an hour of UK. Lol. That's terrible.

Ridere

09-22-2009, 05:27 PM

I guess I will have to supliment it with questing. I imagine since they also broke off the 71-79 bracket and the 80 bracket, that the queue times will be a lot longer, too. Between the EXP nerf and the different brackets, less people will be queueing. I also read that they're not going to start a BG until all 80 people (40 each side) are ready to join, which may make it even longer of a wait in queue.

So yah... Definitely looks like it's going to be a case of questing while waiting in queue. And if that's the case, I better pick one of my two teams to work on, since I doubt I can get both to 80 by Hallow's Eve. Druids or Mages.... hmmm. haha

d0z3rr

09-22-2009, 05:34 PM

That's just spectacular, this is how I planned to level my 10box team from 70-80 so I wouldn't have to quest through northrend twice.

daviddoran

09-22-2009, 07:06 PM

That's just spectacular, this is how I planned to level my 10box team from 70-80 so I wouldn't have to quest through northrend twice.

I'd guess that it's still faster than questing twice. AV exp was more consistent, at least for me, than questing. I always ended up stuck on a low drop rate collection quest, or get camped by horde, and lost multiple hours of xp time. In AV, we only lost exp when we lost, but it takes less time to lose than it did for me grinding 50 low drop rate items off of mobs that don't reset fast enough... Also, if you are 10 boxing, and can successfully rush the end boss, you have a good shot at being able to secure a win all by yourself. I know that 5 boxing, I've turned the tides more than a few times. I was able to kill Galv along with a tank and a healer one game after what was largely a fail run, so i got my exp from that. If you can box drek/val you can likely win it for your team.

Souca

09-22-2009, 09:52 PM

I'd guess that it's still faster than questing twice. AV exp was more consistent, at least for me, than questing. I always ended up stuck on a low drop rate collection quest, or get camped by horde, and lost multiple hours of xp time. In AV, we only lost exp when we lost, but it takes less time to lose than it did for me grinding 50 low drop rate items off of mobs that don't reset fast enough... Also, if you are 10 boxing, and can successfully rush the end boss, you have a good shot at being able to secure a win all by yourself. I know that 5 boxing, I've turned the tides more than a few times. I was able to kill Galv along with a tank and a healer one game after what was largely a fail run, so i got my exp from that. If you can box drek/val you can likely win it for your team.

Rushing end bosses won't help anymore. They are still level 83, or maybe 82; they show as skull to my 76s. You'd have to be 79 with some great crafted and quested gear to stand a chance of taking them out and then you've likely put more time into getting the gear than it would have taken to level.

I've watched a lot of wipes on Galv and Drek so far today because most people don't have a good tank set pre 80, and they are tanking the same mobs that the 80s were. I'm trying not to be too negative about this change, but it looks like it is going to put a wrench into my plans for some additional teams.

- Souca -

Ualaa

09-22-2009, 10:05 PM

I'd imagine AV will still be less painful then collection quests in Northrend.

Sure, do the collections/chains which open the dailies you want to do, but AV with a distraction (dvd going) is still going to be a much easier option then quests. You'll get a few pvp items for free, and have the option to do the quests for extra gold if you choose to. Just don't AFK AV's, move around a bit and give the game some attention, so you take/hold/retake an objective, even if you don't have 100% of your attention on the 113th AV of the week etc.

Ruodhaid

09-22-2009, 10:18 PM

You do still get honor aswell, imo its still the best way

Coltimar

09-22-2009, 10:52 PM

One thing that a lot of you are failing to consider is that not only was the amount of xp nerfed, a ton fewer people are going to play it and there will be queues. There were only 2 AVs all day today. I waited 20 minutes on one and 25 on the second. Instant queues with the current xp rate might be ok but otherwise I don't think this is a superior option any longer.

Multibocks

09-22-2009, 11:30 PM

So do both, quest when waiting and the combined should be ok xp. Just for the record I could easily outdo AV by questing in northrend. You just gotta know whats where and how to do it. Also flyers at 68 is awesomesauce. Makes questing so damn easy.

Tasty

09-22-2009, 11:56 PM

You're all looking at this the wrong way.

People were complaining its a bit OP cause you end up with 3 epics at 80. If they halved the exp that means you'll have 6 pieces by 80 :P

Multibocks

09-23-2009, 12:19 AM

LOL I had 4 epics when my rets finished the run and then I went on my shamans and bought as many 2k honor shards from the WG vendor as I could and bought another piece. 5 pieces to start at 80 is niiiiiice! Instant 5k health upgrade from what I was wearing lol.

Multibocks

09-23-2009, 12:21 AM

Rushing end bosses won't help anymore. They are still level 83, or maybe 82; they show as skull to my 76s. You'd have to be 79 with some great crafted and quested gear to stand a chance of taking them out and then you've likely put more time into getting the gear than it would have taken to level.

I've watched a lot of wipes on Galv and Drek so far today because most people don't have a good tank set pre 80, and they are tanking the same mobs that the 80s were. I'm trying not to be too negative about this change, but it looks like it is going to put a wrench into my plans for some additional teams.

- Souca -

They said this was a oversight and will be hotfixing it shortly. So expect the boss to be killable by the 71-79s whenever they get around to hotfixing it. Back to the race I say!

Coltimar

09-23-2009, 12:22 AM

You're all looking at this the wrong way.

People were complaining its a bit OP cause you end up with 3 epics at 80. If they halved the exp that means you'll have 6 pieces by 80 :P

That is a good point. I just hate the extra time.

Smoooth

09-23-2009, 12:36 AM

They could have just removed honor gain if you got xp. Sort of like how you don't get as much quest gold if you still get xp from it.

Multibocks

09-23-2009, 12:39 AM

True, I wouldnt mind that if they upped it to the previous xp rate.

Starkey

09-23-2009, 04:06 AM

The Queue times are hideous, specially bg9 im waiting 20-40 mins for a game 51-59 bracket

Gadzooks

09-23-2009, 04:58 AM

Honestly, Bliz is between a rock and a hard place with the issues in AV - if they make the penalties for AFK rougher, then it will be abused and honest players impacted. They put EXP into the gameplay, so of course the lazy and the cheaters glommed onto it, like they always do. So they cut the EXP, so it will be less attractive, but they did'nt ban wave all of the players who were doing it (yet...it could still happen...I hope...), they'll still do it, because it means they can get away with it. The new short duration for the inactive buff has killed the numbers of AVs being started, because you also need 100% players on both sides now, so the debuffed players sitting out has reduced AV to the real numbers of players who want it...

It's just a mess, huh?

I can see why they really don't know what to do. If they change anything, it generally impacts honest players negatively. The Bnet kiddies have officially destroyed AV.

I'm wondering if they will just go ahead and shut it down. All AV does now is generate controversy, and it's such an exploit target, they have to be constantly on guard to tweak it to combat them.

I think they should make some basic changes -

Make the starting cave eject you automatically if you have not left it after 2 minutes, and you cannot re-enter after leaving.

Populate it with more mobs and critters that are harmless if you are fighting, but if you get the debuff, they are elites and can kill you.

Start tracking people more closely, and if you have a pattern of getting the debuff, like more than 6 times in an hour, you get a 24 hour suspension and honor and marks removed for the day. Do it again, you get booted for 3 days. 3 times, you're gone, or just that character.

Put objectives into BGs, like, you have to kill one opposing member, or cap a tower, or carry a flag, to get honor. Or kill a boss. DO something, other than jump in place, or run from the cave to a graveyard and back.

Or, the best - and they will NEVER do this but it would rock, and be exploited - give players extra honor if you report a player, and they are debuffed and booted from the match.

Tasty

09-23-2009, 06:22 AM

I quit WoW cause of this. 20 min queues and 50% less xp :/ I know it sounds weak quitting over one small thing but really I was looking for an out anyway. Its been fun :)

Souca

09-23-2009, 09:20 AM

I quit WoW cause of this. 20 min queues and 50% less xp :/ I know it sounds weak quitting over one small thing but really I was looking for an out anyway. Its been fun :)

This about sums it up for me. All my accounts with more than a week or two left have been canceled, the others will cancel tomorrow after a renew. I'm giving them a chance to fix this, as AV was SO MUCH FUN! This is not a small thing.

A couple side effects that make things even worse is that you may get a game that starts even, but after 2 minutes all those AFK get booted and the game is back to 20 vs 40. This assumes you even get 40 to start. I've started in some games that were 26 vs 40 after a 40 minute queue with 7 players getting auto booted after two minutes. Of course Horde couldn't even kill Vann with 40 so they just went around HK farming until we lost to resources. 30 minutes for 3k xp and 70 honor. We can't kill Galv without tanks getting one shot.

To contrast, I played an 80 only game. Within 2 minutes Galv was dead and everyone had at least 180-200 honor. I think I got 1600 for only 7 HKs in the whole game. In the 79 bracket I have had 70+ HK games with all towers down that we won with no Drek kill that got me 900 honor. Titan put my leveling pace at 4 days.

Oh well, so far Aion is cool. Glad I have a reason to play it and won't miss out on what might be a good game, or at least a chance to try something new.

- Souca -

Multibocks

09-23-2009, 10:41 AM

Make sure you put changes to AV as reason you quit.

Fat Tire

09-23-2009, 10:51 AM

Make sure you put changes to AV as reason you quit.

Aye, it works if enough people cancel. They have no way of knowing if you are really going to go thru with not resubscribing so they take every cancellation seriously. They take it way more seriously than QQ on the forums.

There was proof of this 4-5 months ago I think it was a warlock issue and the uproar was huge/cancellations galore and it was reverted. if any of you are shareholders of ATVI they send out a quarterly news letter taking about all kinds of company mumbo-jumbo but something was kinda interesting in this last one. During this recession they said it was paramount that retention of subscribers remain very high. Food for thought ;p

Souca

09-23-2009, 10:54 AM

Make sure you put changes to AV as reason you quit.

I did. I used the same reason on all of the cancel notices, as well as sending one ticket per account requesting the GM forward it to the appropriate department. I'm hoping there is something to make this fun again, but I just have a nasty taste in my mouth from getting all excited about leveling up new teams, even getting two new RaF accounts and now that idea is pretty much shot. My anger may not be rational, but I if it ain't fun, I'm not gonna force it.

- Souca -

modhackmaster

09-23-2009, 11:15 AM

Quote:

0. Clarifications on Changes to Alterac Valley 09/22/2009 05:45:33 PM PDT

With the launch of patch 3.2.2 today there have been some changes to the Alterac Valley battleground and we wanted to clarify what exactly has been done.

Level 80 characters now have their own bracket and there is a separate bracket for characters that are levels 70 to 79. This change was originally planned for patch 3.3 but it was accidently applied to the current patch 3.2.2. As we had already intended to make this change so that players who are leveling play together and players who are at the level cap play together, we will be keeping the bracket setup this way, but the level of the bosses in the brackets below level 80 will be reduced to compensate.

Source: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=19820331742&sid=1

"Accidently"??? LOL

It seems like Blizzard is going to fix the bosses' level later on, and hopefully, the XP nerf will be fixed as well. Or, i am just too optimistic.

Tasty

09-23-2009, 11:33 AM

Make sure you put changes to AV as reason you quit.

I did. I also wrote down that wows an awesome game and I had fun playing it :) I tried to make it as qq free as possibly cause really it was just a good excuse to quit.

Now if you will excuse me, I have to go beat up Joker and his thugs. /equip batman suit

blast3r

09-23-2009, 12:08 PM

Personally I don't think this is something to quit over because we never had XP in BGs before they just introduced it. But that is just me as people can do whatever they like. I guess I will just grind a bit longer and have twice the gear I normally would have got.

blast3r

09-23-2009, 12:23 PM

Kromtor

09-23-2009, 12:29 PM

Does anyone know if the 71-79 bracket gives less honor than the 80 bracket?

I would not be too hasty to assume you'll end up with twice as much honor now that it takes twice as long to level up.

suicidesspyder

09-23-2009, 12:35 PM

To me big deal bout the nerf. Honestly now leveling from 64 to 80 in av is still less painfull then questing and collection quests. I c it as now i will deff have alll my gear when i hit 80 and be able to jump right into av which will be wicked nice to be able to do. Just gotta start levling professions now. At least enchanting on one toon.

Sam DeathWalker

09-23-2009, 12:37 PM

Rats .... AV was so much funner then grinding.

Well if its like 35 percent thats not so bad if we get 65 percent of the exp we had.

Splitting out the 80's seems wise though, I felt I wasn't doing much at 73 to help out my team win.

How hard is it to boot someone who dosn't move for 60 seconds? Everone I see who is playing is moving almost constantly. Just have a 60 seconds boot timer. That might hurt boxers mostly but hey how hard is it to hit a arrow key every 60 seconds?

People quiting were planing to quit anyways ....

Fat Tire

09-23-2009, 12:37 PM

Does anyone know if the 71-79 bracket gives less honor than the 80 bracket?

I would not be too hasty to assume you'll end up with twice as much honor now that it takes twice as long to level up.

Honor was reduced by the same margin.

Fat Tire

09-23-2009, 12:47 PM

You guys crack me up.

Oh noes! They nerfed my fast track to 80 method! I quit! (even though it was introduced only a few months ago, and I played without it for years without complaining!!!)

Being a multiboxer you already have the fast track on almost everything.. LFG? Nope, instant groups. Professions? Nope, if you spread them out, you've got access to everything you need. Gold? Nope, you can make an arse ton in a few minutes of dailies. Hell, if you boost you can level up a new team really quick.

Seriously.... the QQ'ing needs to stop. You guys quiting over AV XP changes need a reality check.

Your missing the point. It was fun to lvl up a team via pvp, who cares about all the other shit you mentioned. It was fun, a shit ton better than questing 71-80. Maybe blizzard needs to look at the game itself and maybe wonder why people wanted/liked to lvl in pvp instead of just trashing it completely. I dont think anyone dislikes the bracket/inactive changes its the XP in general, they just made it more of a grind. I wonder if they kept the xp the same if more games would pop and thus quiet the dissent.

Ridere

09-23-2009, 01:00 PM

I didn't get to experience the 71-80 AV run, so I'm a bit bummed I missed out. On the other hand, I guess I'm lucky that I won't have first-hand experience of what I'm now missing.

I agree that crying over the 35% reduction of EXP is lame, but... It's worth mentioning, that's not the only nerf that AV took.

AV will not start until all 80 people are ready to join, which means games will take longer to start. Less EXP means less people are going to queue. No 80s in the bracket means there's an even smaller potential pool for candidates, since we don't have a lot of the honor grinders Queueing for our Exp bracket. Those all combined are going to create majorly slow queue times.

What used to be like a 2-5 minute queue is probably upwards to 20-30+ minutes now.

I don't think I'll bother queueing, personally. My main desire to AV exp, aside from the increased speed, was the lovely gold I'd get going back and doing various quests I was able to skip. haha. But with Relic shoulders/chest and full rested exp, I think that just questing will be less of a headache.

Not to mention the AFK debuff thing. 2 minutes of auto follow on your toons, and they're going to be ejected from AV now with a deserter debuff. Yucko.

Zappy

09-23-2009, 01:01 PM

How hard is it to boot someone who dosn't move for 60 seconds? Everone I see who is playing is moving almost constantly. Just have a 60 seconds boot timer. That might hurt boxers mostly but hey how hard is it to hit a arrow key every 60 seconds?

Huh?

When get afk flagged, you have 60 seconds to get into combat, or get booted. Hitting the arrow keys will not stop the timer.

The only complaint that I have about the afkers is that they take up valuable spots that can help your team win. I welcome this new change as all you need is mouse broadcasting. Simply open up the map on all the toons, broadcast a right click on the cave dwellers, then select all, and broadcast a left click. I report everybody that stays in the cave shortly after the battle begins, and it seems to be very effective at removing them rather quickly.

Fat Tire

09-23-2009, 01:06 PM

Huh?

When get afk flagged, you have 60 seconds to get into combat, or get booted. Hitting the arrow keys will not stop the timer.

The only complaint that I have about the afkers is that they take up valuable spots that can help your team win. I welcome this new change as all you need is mouse broadcasting. Simply open up the map on all the toons, broadcast a right click on the cave dwellers, then select all, and broadcast a left click. I report everybody that stays in the cave shortly after the battle begins, and it seems to be very effective at removing them rather quickly.

this is correct. No bot/auto-clicker program will save you now. Once your flagged you have 60 seconds to hit an opposing player or your booted with 15min deserter. This is a great change imho as boxers we can flag anyone we want right away. Dont piss off the boxer in BGs. ;p

suicidesspyder

09-23-2009, 01:07 PM

How do we go afk from keyboard. I always hit jump on my alts every little bit or do something that causes them to make some kind of move to keep them active you cant get flagged afk if your moving wewt.

Fat Tire

09-23-2009, 01:11 PM

What point, exactly?

You were given a buff for ~2 months, and it was reduced. Its just like a class change. You don't quit over those, do you?

Holy shit, I thought it was explained. The fact the people like to leveling thru pvp more than questing. It was not a buff it was a playstyle change that alot of people asked for and was implemented for that exact reason. if you need that explained then your just trolling.

Fat Tire

09-23-2009, 01:15 PM

alcattle

09-23-2009, 01:18 PM

Key phrase > in the cave <

Fat Tire

09-23-2009, 01:23 PM

Key phrase > in the cave <

Or >defending a tower< or >guarding a GY< or shit even >running up to help on offense< 60 seconds is not alot of time.:)

Fat Tire

09-23-2009, 01:26 PM

So... why didn't you quit when you asked for it like two years ago and it wasn't implemented at that time? :)

Because I wasn't given a choice. That argument fails on so many levels dont even try it. Look I never said I was quitting, but the people who are have that right and have a valid QQ.

wrs

09-23-2009, 01:29 PM

It was a huge xp buff, and now it's over. It was inevidable. It also seems honor has been nerfed as well.

Fat Tire

09-23-2009, 01:34 PM

Ok, we'll just agree to disagree then.

I see it as the same argument "X" class makes when "Y" ability gets nerfed/changed and they scream bloody murder that they're going to quit WoW or reroll another class because of the change.

Absolutely, great point and I think there is a little of that also in the QQ.

Oatboat

09-23-2009, 01:48 PM

I dont mind the exp nerf as much as the I cant bring my 80 sham in with my alts anymore.

I've lost the drive to go on... cancelled them this morning. On a more positive note.... all my shows started up this previous week so I wont be that bored :)

Oswyn

09-23-2009, 04:46 PM

We all new the xp nerf was coming. Heck there were posts after every maintenance with people asking whether or not it's been nerfed yet.

Tasty

09-23-2009, 08:58 PM

You guys crack me up.

Oh noes! They nerfed my fast track to 80 method! I quit! (even though it was introduced only a few months ago, and I played without it for years without complaining!!!)

Being a multiboxer you already have the fast track on almost everything.. LFG? Nope, instant groups. Professions? Nope, if you spread them out, you've got access to everything you need. Gold? Nope, you can make an arse ton in a few minutes of dailies. Hell, if you boost you can level up a new team really quick.

Seriously.... the QQ'ing needs to stop. You guys quiting over AV XP changes need a reality check.

Hopefully you actually read my post

fyi: If anyones missed this

"The reduced experience in Alterac Valley is due to the fact that Battleground experience is based off of the level of the Battleground. Characters level 70-79 are no longer getting experience based on level 80 characters. As a result of this, we are now able to do an across-the-board increase to experience gains from all Battlegrounds in order to make sure that no Battleground feels too unrewarding in terms of experience. We have also made it so the experience bonus from heirloom items works properly in Battlegrounds. "