Engineering with in Arena?

[Meathead]

Hey yall I was wondering would it be good to get Engineering for arena as in Engineering to your belt and gloves while going for the 1 shot so like FL/Lava burst /Engineering Belt/ then chain lighting. I mean i always get so close to killing soneone on that 2% hp could image with the Engineeringbelt they would be dead.

[Ellay]

Hmm, whats the engineering belt move? :P

[Fat Tire]

Think maybe you might be talking about the hand mounted pyro rocket (glove) engineering chant. It rocks, I would get it if I were you but it eats any trinket cooldowns.

http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=54998#comments:40

Hand-Mounted Pyro Rocket now deals 1654 to 2020 Fire damage. Its instant cast, 45 sec CD and off the GCD I have had it crit for 3k+ that x4 is win

/use 10

[asonimie]

No there is a new Eng. belt that creates a bomb every X minutes. I would assume it would be an AOE targeted attack like grenades... essentially making it useless for boxing.

[Fat Tire]

No there is a new Eng. belt that creates a bomb every X minutes. I would assume it would be an AOE targeted attack like grenades... essentially making it useless for boxing.



Oh! The Frag belt. Yes totally not worth it imo

[Meathead]

Well i am thinking more of the gloves....cuase yea like another 4k crit x4 is insane. you know they wont live then hehe

[gitcho]

I would assume it would be an AOE targeted attack like grenades... essentially making it useless for boxing. unless you're using ISboxer - fast + accurate aoe ground targetting is the main reason I switched ...

[heyaz]

How hard does that hand pyro rocket hit for.. does it scale with spell power?

[Fat Tire]

How hard does that hand pyro rocket hit for.. does it scale with spell power?


Hard and Yes

[asonimie]

Hard and Yes


since when does it scale with SP. Documented anyone?

[Fat Tire]

since when does it scale with SP. Documented anyone?


well on my rogue who has no SP I have hit 3k crit and on my shaman I have hit (4k) Actually I think it was 3800ish.

Edit ; OK I was wrong it does not scale from what I gather reading certain sites.

Edit2;

I did 15 hand pyros on the lvl 80 target dummy in org. Here are my results. No buff at all.

1742
1744
2789(Crit)
2287(Crit)
1941
2887(Crit)
1812
1922
2881(Crit)
1936
1955
2736(Crit)
2823(Crit)
1996
2944(Crit)


I also did 15 fulled buffed and the results were comparable.

Well there you go. I believe now that my 3800 was a mistake seeing it when I read the combat log or it did happen and its just rare. I think its just amazing for helping burst.

[Meathead]

Yea if you have a extra 3kx4 thats about 12k right there I am going to level enginneering on all my toons at this point so that i can get the extra burst that is needed in arena to kill the guys with 29k hp ive seen ppl with 34k hp but yea.

[heyaz]

Tooltip is what like 1.5? That's not very hard

[Meathead]

hmmm......a extra burst i was also thinking of using darkmoon card death. On my dk it has critted for 5k and thats without spell power my lock it has critted for 7k but yea it is a random proc but its fairly insane.

[Fat Tire]

Tooltip is what like 1.5? That's not very hard


Hand-Mounted Pyro Rocket now deals 1654 to 2020 Fire damage(crits up to 3kish) for a glove chant with an instant cast. 45sec cooldown that is off the Gobal cd. Holy shit, what more do you want?

[asonimie]

Yea if you have a extra 3kx4 thats about 12k right there I am going to level enginneering on all my toons at this point so that i can get the extra burst that is needed in arena to kill the guys with 29k hp ive seen ppl with 34k hp but yea.

Hold up champ, don't think AT ALL you are required to do engineering. First off I don't use engineering. I am full JC/Enchanting on all toons... which also makes me a lot of gold on the side. This has been debated before, and while the extra burst from rockets sounds saucy, and may do slightly more damage.... you are sacrificing a lot of spellpower, which is used for other important things such as heals, and overall sustained damage. I use a clickable trinket during my EM+LvB instant nuke, which gives me 440spellpower per shaman.

Gloves: 28spellpower
JC/Ench: 46-49 spellpower
Trinket: 440 spellpower (Not to mention they could release a 800sp trinket in the future, never know)

With Engineering, you are giving up 514-520 juicy SP. I've done some target dummy testing, and that extra spellpower boost causes an extra 1100-1600 dmg on lavaburst alone. This spellpower ALSO scales with the clearcasting bonus, which the rockets do not. Not to mention all the other spells I cast during those next 19 seconds get the boost as well... which is huge. For LvB alone, rockets will do slightly more damage... but all damage combined, my setup gains 500% more dmg easily.

Either way requires leveling a profession, which if you are serious about arena you will anyway. I just want people to know engineering is NOT a must... and Ench / JC provide a nice means of making cash.

[Fat Tire]

asonimie and I sound like used car salesman in this thread. :)

One thing I will say about engineering dps trinkets/chants is they do have a history of getting nerfed.

[Ellay]

Hold up champ, don't think AT ALL you are required to do engineering. First off I don't use engineering. I am full JC/Enchanting on all toons... which also makes me a lot of gold on the side. This has been debated before, and while the extra burst from rockets sounds saucy, and may do slightly more damage.... you are sacrificing a lot of spellpower, which is used for other important things such as heals, and overall sustained damage. I use a clickable trinket during my EM+LvB instant nuke, which gives me 440spellpower per shaman.

Gloves: 28spellpower
JC/Ench: 46-49 spellpower
Trinket: 440 spellpower (Not to mention they could release a 800sp trinket in the future, never know)

With Engineering, you are giving up 514-520 juicy SP. I've done some target dummy testing, and that extra spellpower boost causes an extra 1100-1600 dmg on lavaburst alone. This spellpower ALSO scales with the clearcasting bonus, which the rockets do not. Not to mention all the other spells I cast during those next 19 seconds get the boost as well... which is huge. For LvB alone, rockets will do slightly more damage... but all damage combined, my setup gains 500% more dmg easily.

Either way requires leveling a profession, which if you are serious about arena you will anyway. I just want people to know engineering is NOT a must... and Ench / JC provide a nice means of making cash.


I'm totally playing devil's advocate here because I leveled engineering when Gnomish Lightning Generator was ungodly overpowered haha. Now the clickable spell power IS amazing and I like that on demand burst. You aren't limited to not using it though by getting the rockets, it just means your second setup of nukes will be powerful as well since your 10 second internal gcd should be up by the next lava burst.
My gameplan though since I don't feel like dropping engineering is to pick up the Arena Trinket that gives 150 spell power base and 4300~ hp for 15 seconds, which I used to use the lesser version in season 3/4 and found it invaluable when getting trained on. Just macro it to your thunderstorm and not worry about it. I think factoring in this trinket evens out the scenario. Going engineering basically frees up a trinket slot.

Overall there isn't a clear cut answer to this, it's all preference which is how it should be.

[asonimie]

asonimie and I sound like used car salesman in this thread. :)

One thing I will say about engineering dps trinkets/chants is they do have a history of getting nerfed.


Haha ya.

One thing to note, my guys are full furious rocking the Thunderfall totem ( GET SOME ). As long as targets aren't PS'd, AMZ/AMS'd (or some other immunity), there are no enemies that survive my EM LVB (other than destro's once again). So the argument of rocket vs. spellpower may be moot. I appear to be putting out plenty of dmg as is. If the rockets were physical dmg or something other than fire... it would be different. I wish.

@ellay: In my haste I forgot to mention that - true you can still use the click trinket, i just assumed the internal gcd would be a full trinket usage cd... like 20 seconds (in which 60% of my matches are over). If the rockets only eat 10secs of trinket gcd, it might not be bad. However, I maintain that if blizz DOES release some juicy "on use" trinket that adds 700+ sp.. even for 3 seconds.. I think it will trump rockets permenantly.

Dam I wish there was some cheap and easy way to play with rockets for a week and feel the difference.

[Ellay]

for 50 Triumph badges you can get a 600 on use spell power trinket. Gives 128 int too.

[Homer]

You give up around 50 spellpower with eng, Glove enchant(Only usable thing in arena) and loosing 1 prof

[heyaz]

Well, you convinced me not to go engineering. I don't like internal trinket cooldowns. I love me some spell power on demand.

I did jc/enchanting on my main and I'm disappointed with enchanting. Correct me if I'm wrong, but with epic gems it's now the exact same benefit as having blacksmithing - only without all the different gems. If you wanted spell power you could go BS and put in two more +23 spell power gems, then it's no different right?

[Homer]

It does not take your trinket CD if that's what you mean

[alcattle]

I think he was referring to changing trickets during a fight. Anytime you change, it goes on cooldown

[Extreme]

(first of all, sry 4 my bad english :p )
all my 4 shamans have engineering and its awesome!

in pvp its a very good extra bust every 45sec
(you cant use the frag belt in arenas but it's very helpful in battlegrounds, 0,5sec casttime for a 3 sec aoe stun and you can use it when you are running)

if you are an engineer you can equip the battlemasters trinket (111spellpower+3385life/15sec on use or the newer one with 160spellpower+4600life/15sec on use) and the titan-forged rune of audacity (111spellpower+ removing all cc effects), so you have not to "waste" a trinket slot for the resilence+spelldmg on use trinkets which have a 2min cd :)

yes, with JC or another profession you'll have more constant dmg, but in pvp we need burst and ... ehh .. burst! and with the hand-mounted pyro rocket you can have extra burst every 45sec (no GCD and 45y range!!!) with more burst your enemys die faster, and if they die faster you get less dmg from them.

if an enemy run out of range with low hp ... just pwn him with teh imba 45y flameshock+pyrorocket combo! :D
if someone is low hp, shocks,thunderstorm and all the rest is on cd ... just pwn him with ya pyrorockets!
*** engineering *** buy NOW *** it's amazing! *** be George W. Bush in WoW, bomb you enemys out of the arena *** only with pyrorockets *** try it ! ***

[heyaz]

I was under the impression that the pyro rocket and frag belt (maybe?) triggered a 10 second internal CD on trinket pops. No it doesn't burn you trinket cooldown, but from what I understand it does trigger a cooldown on it (making it impossible to pop, say, your sorcery disk and then a pyro rocket).

Other than that, I'm concerned about losing a lot of stats with engineering, and I'm not quite convinced (prove me otherwise!) that pyro rockets are the difference between a kill and an enemy at 10% hp that gets an instant heal. I wasn't able to kill full furious (or furious/deadly) players until I broke 2350 sp unbuffed, just because I'd always leave them at just a few % hp and miss the kill. I don't have furious weapons, relenetless accessories or all epic gems, but I think 2550 sp unbuffed is possible, and I can't imagine anyone surviving an instant cast x4 with over 3200 spell power with trinkets and blood fury.

Maybe I'm wrong about all this, but I've always found raw stats and spell power to be superior to one-off gimmicks. Maybe it's different in quad box arena. But what about everything else? WG, battlegrounds, world pvp. I'd hate for my finishing move to be a engineering thing that was on cooldown when I needed it,

[Extreme]

the cooldown is only 45sec so it's very short. it's up when you need it.

and yes, if you use the pyrorockets you "on use" trinkets gets a 10sec cooldown, and if you use you trinket first your pyrorockets gets a 20sec cd.
(only offensive trinkets)


Other than that, I'm concerned about losing a lot of stats with engineering, and I'm not quite convinced (prove me otherwise!) that pyro rockets are the difference between a kill and an enemy at 10% hp that gets an instant heal.
to kill or not to kill, that is the question :D
dead is dead and alive is alive, pyrorockets can chance the status of your enemys from alive to dead without a gcd :D

[asonimie]

Maybe I'm wrong about all this, but I've always found raw stats and spell power to be superior to one-off gimmicks. Maybe it's different in quad box arena. But what about everything else? WG, battlegrounds, world pvp. I'd hate for my finishing move to be a engineering thing that was on cooldown when I needed it,

This is kinda how I feel. I like raw stats. Having said that I AM thinking about trying the rockets out... its a crazy amount of gold to spend on testing something.. but meh. As mentioned by ellay, equipping the 160sp trinket instead of the burst trinket sounds appealing to me... so I may actually do this for that reason, 160 BASE spellpower and a health boost wouldnt be bad at all. And @Extreme, I do have burst as well, only slightly less.

[asonimie]

And also... how much spell pen are you engineers sitting on? As much as I like the SP+Parachute cloak underlay... I don't see it possible to achieve the necessary 120-130 SPen without the +35pen to cloak. Also, if I drop JC I don't see how I will ever achieve the correct spell pen either.

[Ellay]

parachute cloak? I don't think I ever have a need for using that :P my spell pen is a little low though. I do need to work it up to 120-130.

[Fat Tire]

130 SP is only for Mage that wear mage armor otherwise 85 is the standard SPen


Edit; Just saw these changes on MMO Patch 3.2.2 Notes Update

Shamanism: Your Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning spells gain an additional 3/6/9/12/15% and your Lava Burst gains an additional 4/8/12/16/20% of your bonus damage effects.


Nice buff to Chain Lighting!

[asonimie]

parachute cloak? I don't think I ever have a need for using that :P my spell pen is a little low though. I do need to work it up to 120-130.

Well lol... I'm nuts and I finally did it. 406 engineering x4. I'm officially just testing this out. I know - I'm insane, but actually it only took 3 hours to gather mats, 4000 gold TOTAL (sooo cheap compared to my 3k per profession before), and finally 1 hour to level them all up side by side today.

I'm actually going to TRY to make use of the parachute enchant in AB / EOTS etc, more vanity than usefulness... but oh well I want it, and I only come out - 5 SP in the end, which is next to nothing. With the +35pen enchant gone, I'm making up for it by using all 3x Stormy dragons eyes... which adds up 129pen lol... almost perfect.


Edit: and WOW... amazing buff to LB and CL. Now my CL+FrS will hit like 2 trucks instead of just 1.

[Homer]

The rocket glove does not trigger a 10 second CD

[Ellay]

It triggers a 10 second cooldown with other on use trinkets/items.

[TeamFrosty]

I've been thinking about leveling engi myself. My question is, if you use an on use trinket, then cast lvb, could you use the pyro-rockets immediately after? I know that the rockets trigger a 10 sec trink cd, but does that work vice versa too?

[Meathead]

Well I havent leveled my engineering yet should do soon.

[suprafro]

I've been thinking about leveling engi myself. My question is, if you use an on use trinket, then cast lvb, could you use the pyro-rockets immediately after? I know that the rockets trigger a 10 sec trink cd, but does that work vice versa too?

I was wondering the same thing

Mr. asonimie, have you had a chance to hit the arenas again with your new found pyro-rockets? Or anyone else? If so whats your initial impression? I'm already 4x JC but was considering 4x engineering as my secondary trades

(Additionally, something about firing 4 rockets at once just seems awesome)

[Multibocks]

These sound nice for my paladin group considering there is always that goddamn ice mage that is surviving with just above 20% health and I have been kited forever. I can usually kill them by myself, but its when others join the fray that it gets embarassing quick. Any other class I can usually beat the crap out of within 2 GCDs.

[Eloxy]

imo engineering is a realy good tool, and it does provide an aditional 6-8k instant damage every 45 sec. But the maths on whats best, i do not know ;)

AH in dalaran is cheesy though :D

[Meathead]

Okie dokie leveling enginneering as we speak :D

[asonimie]

I haven't made my full thesis on engineering yet, but for those looking to level a profession, I will say it was cheap and easy to get 405 engineering, which allows use of all pvp gadgets and goodies. As far as I see so far, theres nothing to "regret" about going engineering, keeping in mind my other prof. is JC (good income and stats). As far as damage, jury is still out until I get my new trinkets to make up for shifted spellpower, but its not that much different so far.

Opinion Thus Far:
Cost: A+
Fun Factor: A+
Better for BGs/WG?: Absolutely.. I love playing AB now cause of nitro+parachute, I'm all over the place.
Arena: Not sure, I will keep ya posted
Non-Combat benefits?: Convenience and gadgets are much better... but the lack of ability to generate income shows.

[Deumus]

Non-Combat benefits?: Convenience and gadgets are much better... but the lack of ability to generate income shows.

I don't very know Eng, but this profession have the bike! :D

On my server, the bike is sold at ~20k gold. So, I think it's a good income, no?


At the end: Eng is better on PVP than Ench or JC?

[Multibocks]

asonimie have you made your decision on whether you like engineering or not for arenas?

[Kromtor]

i swore i'd never level up engineering on 5 chars again....... ugh now i have to =)

[Zappy]

parachute cloak? I don't think I ever have a need for using that :P my spell pen is a little low though. I do need to work it up to 120-130.

No need for a parachute cloak? If you world PVP and have engineering, then it's a must have. Put it on an older cloak, and the next time you see those pesky players that fly above ground thinking they are out of harms way, you'll have a blast. Simply get close to them, dismount, pop thunderstorm, and use your parachute to save yourself while you watch the enemies splat and take durability. I can't even count how many times I've killed people with that.

:D

[suprafro]

I didn't know about the new LW drums until today (BoK and MOTW in a can), I wonder if they will be usable in arena?