Twinks and lack of games

[Ughmahedhurtz]

So I was reading around on various forums today and saw this thread where twinks are whining (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=19110336708&sid=1&pageNo=1#18) (shocking, ain't it?) about not having enough games to play.



Q u o t e:
All across the board people are complaining about the lack of games available to people with experience turned off, is anyone looking into this? For a long time we've wanted to allow players to gain experience through Battlegrounds. One major issue with this though, is that we cannot have those players entering twink matches where they just get rolled over and over again, gaining virtually no experience. We don't want players who are participating in Battlegrounds while continuing their leveling experience on the same playing field as those who make the most of their character in a given level bracket and want to stay there.

If there are a lack of matches launching for those with experience gains turned off, it just shows that this isn't an exceedingly popular form of game play, at least not on some Battlegroups.

Q u o t e:
Have they thrown around the idea of pooling everyone with xp turned off into the same battlegroup ques?
Unfortunately, there are massive technical limitations that prevent this from being a viable solution.

Q u o t e:

I'm not asking for a solution in 5 minutes, but a blue response simply saying "we understand there is a problem" would be golden, and I wouldnt feel like we twinks are being ignored! I wouldn't say we recognize it to be a problem. There are those who love to twink characters, purposefully trying to stay at a specific level with specific gear just so they're more powerful than the majority of the characters within at least 4 or 5 levels of them. Then there are those who wouldn't mind playing in a Battleground for fun now and then during the leveling process, particularly now that experience is offered. If Battleground queue times for twinks on any given Battlegroup are so long, I think it just goes to show what a small, niche form of game play twinking is.

As a company, we've never officially supported twinking. We've just been allowing it this whole time. Now with patch 3.2, we're technically supporting twinking by allowing players who aren't level capped to play in Battlegrounds without risking leveling up. The only fair way to do this though is to separate the twinks from everyone else, and thus you have whatever is left over in the twink queues. So I got two things from that discussion:


Twinks who always say, "We'd rather play other twinks than normals" have been lying their hypocritical little scrub asses off. What, they expect me to now believe that prior to 3.2 they had mostly all-twink games all the time? Puh-leeze.
Blizzard says they're apparently a tiny minority of the subscriber base, which also gives the lie to their rampant prior claims of being a popular choice (in order to curry favor against changes like the leg armor and shoulder enchant removals).

My overall thoughts? ROFL! QQ moar.

[wendalf]

I agree with #1. Twinks are so used to having the upper hand and now they have to play against other twinks who may have a skill upper hand with the gear being fairly equal. Never going to make everyone happy. They need to learn to adapt and overcome.

[Svpernova09]

I agree with #1 and #2, I think it's amusing as hell they're having such a terrible experience in BGs, considering they ruined many experiences for me. I've twinked a few characters to see what the fuss was all about, and I never could get into it. Just comes down to it being a group of people who want to stack everything on their side and go demolish people who are just leveling, at best they're school yard bullies.

I think what this will lead to, (if they're smart, and enough that actually DO want to play with other twinks) they'll all migrate to the same server, or at the very least, the same battlegroup. where the rest of the WoW world can swiftly forget about them.

Until then, Care cup is empty: c[_], they can fill it with their tears.

[Ualaa]

Well..

Mixed feelings.


I don't want to see twinks vs normal players.
Then again, full arena gear players in the 71-80 bracket are twinks there too.

At the same time, they should be able to get games, vs equally geared other players.
And not sit there with a very lengthy queue to even get a game.

[Svpernova09]

Well..

Mixed feelings.


I don't want to see twinks vs normal players.
Then again, full arena gear players in the 71-80 bracket are twinks there too.

At the same time, they should be able to get games, vs equally geared other players.
And not sit there with a very lengthy queue to even get a game.


Thats the thing though, they can't get games against equally geared other players because those other equally geared players AREN'T queing. That's what is so amusing about it.

[Malekyth]

I think it's amusing as hell they're having such a terrible experience in BGs, considering they ruined many experiences for me.

HELL yes. I haven't been in a non-level cap Battleground since the last time I was reminded how imbalanced and un-fun the ubiquitous hardcore twinks make them. The new changes are wonderful. Screw those guys!

[Ughmahedhurtz]

To clarify my OP a bit, I'm not wishing twinks couldn't ever queue or anything. I just find it highly amusing that all the claims they've been trumpeting about their purest of motives are so much bullshit.

What was the old saying about watching how a person treats someone when it offers no reward? AKA the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory.
(http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/)

[Aradar]

I've never played a twink but I find it amusing that a community that is so hated for its choice on how to enjoy the game can turn around and do the same to another community based on a different choice, especially if you happen to pvp while multiboxing.

As for their complaint this has increased their queues to the point of making the actual battles nonexistent, how does one read into that they were lying when they said they would prefer to play other twinks? It's simple math that when you restrict a part of the game to an alternative type of game play there likely isn't going to be the numbers to make that choice worthwhile. Imagine if boxers could only enter battlegrounds against other boxers within your battlegroup and you would get the same scenario.

It also doesn’t necessarily mean they were wrong in the size of their community. Our community has gotten to be a decent size but when you take a niche game style and spread it over multiple servers/battlegroups/time zones/age groups with differing priorities/responsibilities, it’s going to make it hard to get 20 of them together at the same time, and that’s just the smallest battleground.

On the flip side, I don’t think it’s something that blizzard needs to address. The game was not intended for their play style, much less ours, so the twinks need to figure out a solution on their own much like we do when mechanics of the game are changed/introduced that affect our play.

[Svpernova09]

I've never played a twink but I find it amusing that a community that is so hated for its choice on how to enjoy the game can turn around and do the same to another community based on a different choice, especially if you happen to pvp while multiboxing.

As for their complaint this has increased their queues to the point of making the actual battles nonexistent, how does one read into that they were lying when they said they would prefer to play other twinks? It's simple math that when you restrict a part of the game to an alternative type of game play there likely isn't going to be the numbers to make that choice worthwhile. Imagine if boxers could only enter battlegrounds against other boxers within your battlegroup and you would get the same scenario.

It also doesn’t necessarily mean they were wrong in the size of their community. Our community has gotten to be a decent size but when you take a niche game style and spread it over multiple servers/battlegroups/time zones/age groups with differing priorities/responsibilities, it’s going to make it hard to get 20 of them together at the same time, and that’s just the smallest battleground.

On the flip side, I don’t think it’s something that blizzard needs to address. The game was not intended for their play style, much less ours, so the twinks need to figure out a solution on their own much like we do when mechanics of the game are changed/introduced that affect our play.




I'm not trying to harp on people who play twinks, by all means, play how you want. I had a couple twinks in my time. What I find amusing is twinks have been asking for this for a long while, some ability to turn off XP or only que against other twinks. Blizzard gave them both of these. If they turn off XP, they can only que against other people with XP off. Now there are long / nonexistent ques. Why is that? Simple. They can't start games that don't have enough players so the logical explanation is that there aren't enough twinks that have their XP off queing. It's not a far assumption from there that they aren't turning off their XP because they were just trying to justify themselves being qued with non-twinks. If all the twinks that were crying about wanting to play with other twinks DID go and turn off their XP, and que, then this wouldn't be in issue unless the BG just has a very, very small twink population.

I'm willing to wager the twink population is greater than the multiboxing population. You don't see wow forums completely overrun with people talking about multiboxing as you do twinks talking about twinking. If you're in doubt, go check your BG forums.

As I said before, I think this will cause twinks to migrate to other servers if they really want to play with other twinks, much like multiboxers have begun to migrate to servers with other boxers.

TL;DR I'm not the pot calling the kettle black, I'm very much amused that the crying child finally got his issues addressed and is now crying about it.

[heyaz]

I remember making a twink years ago, before it was popular. I was one of the only ones on Horde. When alliance started making twinks, I hated it. I hated playing other rogues/hunters/paladins that were twinked out and could kill me.

The only fun in it was rolling people who weren't twinked. It eventually got to where we did 10 on 10 twink premades, which were fun for about 2 days until we realized they were just going to be hour long turtle matches.

[Bot]

i think the deal is that not all the twinks in the game were or are as outspoken as others. also depending on your battlegroup queues can pop in 5-10 min around the clock. ruin and cyclone are and have been 2 of the most popular battlegroups for twinks and theyre still active with the a fore mentioned queue times.

there have always been twinks that just liked to wtfpwn non twinks and there still are but your assumption that the ones who said theyd rather fight non twinks being liars is not built on solid evidence. none of the quoted questions indicate any sort of desire to be able to shred nontwinks... only to be able to get more games. i think for the most part the 'hardcore' twink community would be totally happy with the changes if only they could play without having to switch battlegroups.

but im probably wrong. my assumptions about humanity usually come back to bite me in the ass...

[Ughmahedhurtz]

As for their complaint this has increased their queues to the point of making the actual battles nonexistent, how does one read into that they were lying when they said they would prefer to play other twinks?
On the face of it, you can't. But read some of the old twink threads where they're all "OMG that BG sucked! Almost no twinks and we just facerolled 'em in 5 minutes." Then go sit in Org and listen to those same twinks brag and boast about how they annihilated an entire group of "scrubby po-ass nubs" (that's a direct quote from a few weeks ago from one of the loudest-mouthed twinks on my server) without even losing half their health. I suppose I could have included that as the other half of the data set and my original point would have made more sense. :P

[Bot]

On the face of it, you can't. But read some of the old twink threads where they're all "OMG that BG sucked! Almost no twinks and we just facerolled 'em in 5 minutes." Then go sit in Org and listen to those same twinks brag and boast about how they annihilated an entire group of "scrubby po-ass nubs" (that's a direct quote from a few weeks ago from one of the loudest-mouthed twinks on my server) without even losing half their health. I suppose I could have included that as the other half of the data set and my original point would have made more sense. :P


those jerks dont speak for all twinks though. and that still doesnt support the argument based on the evidence given. thats just saying some twinks like steamrolling battlegrounds + some twinks are complaining that queues are too long = twinks never liked fighting each other even though they said they did. it doesnt add up. now if you show me a quote of all the twinks saying they hate fighting each other and that they wish they could just pwn noobs some more then ill be more inclined to agree with you. but right now and from what ive read it seems the majority of twinks are just looking for ways to get to play and are only really upset because of that fact.

it looks to me like its pretty much come down to unless blizz consolidates battlegroups for xp locked players (which they most likely wont do), the twinks are just gonna end up consolidating themselves into 2-3 battlegroups and havin a good ole time.


edit: i found evidence to support my claim here (http://twinkinfo.com/forums/10-19-bracket/5510-19s-ruin-battlegroup-migration-qs-u-s.html).

edit2: i havent read all of it so i may end up eating my foot :)

[kadaan]

I hopped into the 30-39 WSG bracket on an alt to see what the exp gain was like, and there was a twink there. He grabbed the flag, ran back to our base, and sat on the roof the whole game. We returned our flag and waited for him to cap, but he never did. He said "you guys ruined the game for twinks, so I'm just here to ruin the game for you now." 20 minutes and ~5% level exp later I got 2 tokens and was completely turned off of mixing BG's in with questing while leveling.

Yes, I put in a ticket as I assume he'll get some sort of warning about going "against the spirit of the game" but I'm not holding my breath.

[Malekyth]

After glorying in the QQ of the twink community, I got to thinking ... like, I'd always wanted to investigate gearing up a twink, for broadly the same reasons that I get a thrill out of sending frostweave bags and cash to my level 1 alt. It's like a weird nurturing thing, an extended, labor-intensive character customization. I never did start a twink because of the other factor: twinks tend to be bullies.

NOW a twink doesn't have to be a bully, because players who otherwise wouldn't get a fair fight with him, don't have to play in his game. That's awesome. It's pretty encouraging. Balanced, of course, by the problems the twinks are currently complaining about, but I wonder if this change will compel twink-curious folks into making their own, and eventually help re-populate those BGs into more-or-less balanced, hardcore environments.

[Bigfish]

i made a few twinks just to do the best in slot research and use outlandishly high enchants on them. Lost its appeal when you can curb stomp people. Lost even more appeal when I found other twinks to fight and found out I'm not very good at PvP.

That said, I'd argue the lack of Twink BGs activating rises from a genuine lack of twink players operating in the same battle groups. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume, until proven otherwise, a viable twinking community might be buildable if a battle group was designated Twink Haven.

[Khatovar]

I love twinks as long as I never have to see them, hear them or communicate with them in any way. They can buy my low-level blue crap off the AH for bazillions of gold, but they flat-out ruined battlegrounds. I can't recall the last time I entered a non-max BG and wasn't met with an assault of "GTFO of this game, scrub!' from my own teammates because I wasn't a twink.

[lans83]

All that bullshit talk in the BGs is why I lost interest in games such as Counter Strike also. Never really cared to make a twink anyways either. Never saw the point in it. I've even managed to roll over a couple twinks when I ran my Rogue thru WSG and AB a few times when no one else could get'em. And my Rogue was in greens at the time. Alot of them in there are all loud mouthed assholes anyway. I'd get freakin insult emotes left and right when they'd kill me in there. More than I've ever gotten from opposing factions. Still, alot of the BS trash talk has been on my own team's side from everyone tryin to play leader at the same time. Now once the twinking community actually grows much larger and have some BGs up all the time, then I'll consider rolling a twink group. Might be all rogues to show them up. :D

[Snyp]

The key difference between the multi-boxers and the twinks is that the latter style of gameplay impacts severely upon that of others, and in fact defeats Blizzards whole intention for the PvP areas. It seems twinks wanted to be able to stay there permanently and grief others, but ignored the old saw "Be careful what you wish for...".

[Otlecs]

I don't have any feelings at all (either good or bad) towards twinks.

The only bad experiences I've ever had in battlegrounds is if I dare to go in at less than half the maximum level for the BG range, in which case - on my battlegroup at least - you can expect all sorts of abuse from your "team mates".

I don't find the anti-twink argument in any way compelling though.

In the absence of an effective gear matching mechanism for the level 80 BGs, a twink compared to a "normal" character working their way through the levels is no different to a fully epic PvP geared level 80 compared to a fresh 80.

[Aradar]

I'm not trying to harp on people who play twinks, by all means, play how you want. I had a couple twinks in my time. What I find amusing is twinks have been asking for this for a long while, some ability to turn off XP or only que against other twinks. Blizzard gave them both of these. If they turn off XP, they can only que against other people with XP off. Now there are long / nonexistent ques. Why is that? Simple. They can't start games that don't have enough players so the logical explanation is that there aren't enough twinks that have their XP off queing. It's not a far assumption from there that they aren't turning off their XP because they were just trying to justify themselves being qued with non-twinks. If all the twinks that were crying about wanting to play with other twinks DID go and turn off their XP, and que, then this wouldn't be in issue unless the BG just has a very, very small twink population.

I'm willing to wager the twink population is greater than the multiboxing population. You don't see wow forums completely overrun with people talking about multiboxing as you do twinks talking about twinking. If you're in doubt, go check your BG forums.

As I said before, I think this will cause twinks to migrate to other servers if they really want to play with other twinks, much like multiboxers have begun to migrate to servers with other boxers.

TL;DR I'm not the pot calling the kettle black, I'm very much amused that the crying child finally got his issues addressed and is now crying about it.

Though I understand what your saying, just because they got what they supposedly wanted and it has resulted in an unforessen problem, doesn't invalidate their reasoning imo. I also agree that their community is probably much larger than ours, but again with the issues I mentioned earlier, even if they all turned their xp off, the likelihood of having 20 of them in one battlegroup queue at the same time is not likely.


The key difference between the multi-boxers and the twinks is that the latter style of gameplay impacts severely upon that of others, and in fact defeats Blizzards whole intention for the PvP areas. It seems twinks wanted to be able to stay there permanently and grief others, but ignored the old saw "Be careful what you wish for...".

I guess your against multiboxers pvping then since the same argument applies. And how is it against the intent of PVP areas? The intent of PVP areas is so that players can fight one another, how does their gear go against that intent? If Blizzard truly wanted pvp to be balanced across the board as you suggest, they would implement a gear matching system that worked and decrease the size of the bracket ranges. Though I agree they got what they wished for, the unintended consequence of long ques doesn't result in the logical jump to they must have been lying about what they really wanted imo.

[Fat Tire]

The funny thing is that the non-exp will never be reverted. If you think the tiny uproar about twinks crying about not having games is bad just think if they reverted it back . Its funny, I have 2 guild mates that have all the x9 twinks and they got a couple of games in VS other twinks.....they said it was a snore fest. Turtle city they call it. The fact is that everyone has made twinks to roll bad low level players, I dont care what anyone says. Hell I made a twink 39 rogue many months ago and guess what. I made it to plow thru people plain and simple. People like not having as many abilities as is needed at 80 so all they need are 4 buttons compared to xyz classes 15 or so.


Anyone who comes here and defends twinking needs to also mention the fact that the reason that they spend so much time/gold on their twinks is to plain and simple gain an advantage over other players twink or otherwise. The fact that they chose to stop leveling in any particular bracket doesnt hold any weight. They could have just as easily stopped leveling and played the bracket without twinking.

[Velassra]

"We only like to fight other Twinks...."

"You only have bg's because of Twinks......there;'s more of us than you..."

I guess not.

[Multibocks]

I really dont understand why they wont let twinks play people who are leveling... so that twink steamrolled you, so what in one day you are going to be out of that bracket anyways. For a non twink its just an inconvenience until you are 80, for a twink well... they don't get to play much anymore. I have to lol about that one though...

[Fat Tire]

I really dont understand why they wont let twinks play people who are leveling... so that twink steamrolled you, so what in one day you are going to be out of that bracket anyways. For a non twink its just an inconvenience until you are 80, for a twink well... they don't get to play much anymore. I have to lol about that one though...


They do allow twinks to play with the non twinks/people who are leveling.