View Full Version : Tremor Totem Stacks
After all the talk about tremor totem is stacking or not ive decided to make alitle movie about it
30 fears with all 4 totems placed at same time he got 25 succesfull fears on me, and most of them lasted for more than a sec
30 fears with all 4 totems placed seperately and in different order/timer he got 2 succesfull fears on me, those 2 lasted less than a sec
I recorded some of it, I hope ull like it.
Heres your proff :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf8lTuStrAE
Have a good day
/Selz
Eloxy
08-11-2009, 05:53 AM
it lasts for 2 seconds =( ( the movie i mean)
Did you download the movie?
I just got a friend to download it and he says it works fine ?
Anyways im gonna redo the movie and throw it up again
I have added a youtube link now, that should work.
I think its filefront that somehow destroys my file
Filefront link should be updated now :p
Alright i can´t get the filefront link to work so im gonna remove it:confused:
I hope you can see it on youtube then see it with HD activated
neopickaze
08-11-2009, 07:56 AM
The paragonx9 in the video made it 5x cooler, nice vid.
It would be quite borring without music indeed;)
Eloxy
08-11-2009, 10:15 AM
watched the youtube version now, good enuff quality for me.
Great pointout that we can stagger the totems now, ty ;)
What would be a good way to get the totems out now?
way i see it we have a two options:
1. put tremor on all the characters totembars and have the "putout totem button" on round robin
or
2. have all the "base package" totems on the call of whatever, and have a roundrobin key for tremors only
Sidenote, do you guys run with a earthbind totem in the "totem spam" button? Must say the root effect on the totem hasnt helped me all that much.
Ellay
08-11-2009, 11:08 AM
Ah, after viewing this it looks like it might be more beneficial for a multiboxer at least in pvp to throw them down one at a time to gain this effect. I've felt fears have lasted way too long myself when throwing everything down.
I'll have to make a new spiffier macro for my totems now. So much for saving time! haha.
Fat Tire
08-11-2009, 11:26 AM
I tried staggered totems in BGs and fear is lasting less than a sec when I stagger them. I havent tried it in arena yet.
Nice movie. Its basically the exact same as in the movie.
Eloxy
08-11-2009, 11:32 AM
[QUOTE=Ellay;218981So much for saving time! haha.[/QUOTE]
My thoughts exactly :D
Guess that dropping all totems in one click at first, and then stagger the tremors with a seperate key will be the way to go then.
But then again, tremors is the totems we need to have first out. "kicks self in ass" ^^
Meathead
08-11-2009, 11:41 AM
Floxy unless you get one out first with your group of totems on one toon then the rest it could speed it up a touch hehe
Fat Tire
08-11-2009, 12:18 PM
I like the RR method, 4 hits of the hot key for totems. Just like old times....
Taliesin
08-11-2009, 01:14 PM
Did some reading just to make sure that there wasn't an issue with diminishing returns. According to http://www.wowwiki.com/Diminishing_Returns, the timer is just 15 seconds for things like fear before you are out of the diminishing returns window. So what we see in the video should be a valid test.
No complaints about the test or how it was carried out, but what just doesn't sit right for me is that with staggered totems down almost every fear was dispelled so fast that none of the shammies even flinched, except once where one toon on the right simply turned away and the last fear where they ran for at least a fraction of a second like I would at least expect. I suppose chance also says he may have simply feared at the exact moment a totem pulsed, but it seems like the fears are breaking faster than they realistically should.
Either way, this seems to be the proof we need to say that staggering tremors has a definite advantage. Thanks for doing the legwork. :)
heyaz
08-11-2009, 01:30 PM
Oh man this is awesome... fear has just been my bane in arenas and pvp in general since the nerf.
And I thought this was going to be a rick roll....
Did some reading just to make sure that there wasn't an issue with diminishing returns. According to http://www.wowwiki.com/Diminishing_Returns, the timer is just 15 seconds for things like fear before you are out of the diminishing returns window. So what we see in the video should be a valid test.
No complaints about the test or how it was carried out, but what just doesn't sit right for me is that with staggered totems down almost every fear was dispelled so fast that none of the shammies even flinched, except once where one toon on the right simply turned away and the last fear where they ran for at least a fraction of a second like I would at least expect. I suppose chance also says he may have simply feared at the exact moment a totem pulsed, but it seems like the fears are breaking faster than they realistically should.
Either way, this seems to be the proof we need to say that staggering tremors has a definite advantage. Thanks for doing the legwork. :)
None of the things you see in the movie is preset, this is really how fast it goes when they are set down with the correct order, we tested it 30 times and the last fear yull see is the longest fear i got out of those 30 times
It does go really fast and she didnt fear as soon as her cooldown was ready, she feard when she wanted to fear soemtimes she even got so bored and i had to tell her to fear :)
The way I see it:
Tremor totems has a 3 sec pulse timer, that pulse starts from the time you place the totem down, which means even if you set two totems they still got a 3 sec pulse timer each, and those will be different from each others, simply because the timer starts from when you place the totem, it dosn´t work like a buff/debuff on a player as it is from other totems, its a buff the totem has as standart, theirfor totem staggering works.
( Placeing another totem dosnt change the pulse time from the 1st totem )
Taliesin
08-11-2009, 05:18 PM
Tremor totems has a 3 sec pulse timer, that pulse starts from the time you place the totem down, which means even if you set two totems they still got a 3 sec pulse timer each, and those will be different from each others, simply because the timer starts from when you place the totem, it dosn´t work like a buff/debuff on a player as it is from other totems, its a buff the totem has as standart, theirfor totem staggering works.
( Placeing another totem dosnt change the pulse time from the 1st totem )
4 totems pulsing every 3 seconds still means you have an average of .75 seconds between pulses. The average time after being feared before it breaks should then be .375 seconds before it gets removed. That's enough time to run at least several yards. What I saw in the video is only once did that happen; all the other attempts resulted in instantaneous removal (except one toon getting turned around and took barely one step once).
As I said, it clearly shows that staggering does work. But that video almost seems to show that it works TOO well. In most cases, it rendered fear completely useless, at best counting as just an interrupt. It's not a critique of the video or the setup, but kinda makes me wonder if it hints at an underlying "issue" with tremor.
Sorry, not trying to stir up trouble here. Just think it should be mentioned that statistically the video shows tremor working better than it really should. Might be a sign of a future stealth fix. Just saying.
Fat Tire
08-11-2009, 06:26 PM
4 totems pulsing every 3 seconds still means you have an average of .75 seconds between pulses. The average time after being feared before it breaks should then be .375 seconds before it gets removed. That's enough time to run at least several yards. What I saw in the video is only once did that happen; all the other attempts resulted in instantaneous removal (except one toon getting turned around and took barely one step once).
As I said, it clearly shows that staggering does work. But that video almost seems to show that it works TOO well. In most cases, it rendered fear completely useless, at best counting as just an interrupt. It's not a critique of the video or the setup, but kinda makes me wonder if it hints at an underlying "issue" with tremor.
Sorry, not trying to stir up trouble here. Just think it should be mentioned that statistically the video shows tremor working better than it really should. Might be a sign of a future stealth fix. Just saying.
wat lol
This a QQ?
Lyonheart
08-11-2009, 06:49 PM
wat lol
This a QQ?
If a tremor TICKS at the same time someone casts fear bomb, it will have the effect of 'resisting" the fear. If a fear bomb hits just AFTER a tick you will run a few feet.
Lyonheart
08-11-2009, 06:58 PM
For saving time, would making round robin macro to lay down all 4 totems at the same time help? like
/castsequence reset=combat call of the elements , , ,
/castsequence reset=combat , call of the elements, ,
/castsequence reset=combat , , call of the elements,
/casysequence reset=combat , , , call of the elements
That way you stagger your tremors like before and do not have to waste mana dropping the tremors separately
Ellay
08-11-2009, 07:41 PM
Someone mentioned totem stomping macro's were fixed as well, any validity to that? ^^
Fat Tire
08-11-2009, 08:49 PM
Yes it was fixed but you can still use a mouse over macro.
Stealthy
08-12-2009, 01:10 AM
Thanks for doing the testing Selz!
Going to redo my macro's tonight - setting them up pretty much as follows:
First keypress:
Toon 1 - Drops tremor plus other totems
Toon 2 - Drops earthbind plus other totems
Toon 3 - Drops other totems but no earth totem
Toon 4 - Drops other totems but no earth totem
Toon 5 - Drops other totems but no earth totem
Second keypress:
Toon 3 - drops tremor totem
Third keypress:
Toon 4 - drops tremor totem
Fourth keypress:
Toon 5 - drops tremor totem
Can't wait to try it out... :)
Cheers,
S.
4 totems pulsing every 3 seconds still means you have an average of .75 seconds between pulses. The average time after being feared before it breaks should then be .375 seconds before it gets removed. That's enough time to run at least several yards. What I saw in the video is only once did that happen; all the other attempts resulted in instantaneous removal (except one toon getting turned around and took barely one step once).
As I said, it clearly shows that staggering does work. But that video almost seems to show that it works TOO well. In most cases, it rendered fear completely useless, at best counting as just an interrupt. It's not a critique of the video or the setup, but kinda makes me wonder if it hints at an underlying "issue" with tremor.
Sorry, not trying to stir up trouble here. Just think it should be mentioned that statistically the video shows tremor working better than it really should. Might be a sign of a future stealth fix. Just saying.
I can´t see how they possible will make a stealth fix, sence the tremor totems need to work for a single playing shaman also, theirfor the 3 sec pulstime can never be changed, and theirfor they will also stack. Each totem will always have a pulstime, and they can´t really increse the time on the pulse either sence it would destroy the single playing tremor totem alot.
I believe this discussion started after the pulse time got incresed to 3sec´s up from 1sec
when we staggered 4 totems with 1sec pulse time it always worked, no brakes at all, now we see it sometimes
but it still works quite well :)
zanthor
08-12-2009, 09:43 PM
I can´t see how they possible will make a stealth fix, sence the tremor totems need to work for a single playing shaman also, theirfor the 3 sec pulstime can never be changed, and theirfor they will also stack. Each totem will always have a pulstime, and they can´t really increse the time on the pulse either sence it would destroy the single playing tremor totem alot.
I believe this discussion started after the pulse time got incresed to 3sec´s up from 1sec
when we staggered 4 totems with 1sec pulse time it always worked, no brakes at all, now we see it sometimes
but it still works quite well :)
They could simply move the pulse server side and process it as a periodic effect. You drop a sequence of totems thye make them all pulse at the same time.
Very easy to break up.
Some would have said the 1 second pulse time can never be changed... It's very viable for them to change any mechanic they want.
heyaz
08-13-2009, 03:11 AM
Think I'd rather still have call of the elements drop earth totems on everyone - 2 or 3 tremors. The problem with having only one toon drop one is if that toon dies, you are stuck with no tremor totems at all until you set up your rotation again.
If you could remember to do this when your main dies, it would be fine, but in the heat of battle (especially 5v5 arena) I can imagine only having 2 or 3 shaman left and not being able to figure out why I'm being feared for 8 sec
Multibocks
08-14-2009, 02:12 AM
It's amazing how far you run when you drop them all at once. Pretty much game over at that point.
mrmcgee21
08-17-2009, 07:08 AM
I went back to staggering totems for about 20 arenas or so, I couldnt tell a difference at all. Possibly hotfixed, or the mechanic just works differently in arena, but almost every fear I get my shamans move a good 5-15 yards before being cured, staggered or not.
Otlecs
08-17-2009, 10:49 AM
the tremor totems need to work for a single playing shaman also, theirfor the 3 sec pulstime can never be changed,
There was -definitely- a time when the behaviour was changed so that all of the pulsing totems pulsed together no matter how you staggered them (i.e. it pulsed on a server-side timer that was unrelated to the time at which you dropped the totem).
I think 3.1 brought that in and lots of us have spent an embarassing amount of time running around like headless chickens ever since!
Thanks for the apparent evidence that it's been reverted to the old behaviour now though - I'll be setting up my new PvP totem sequence tonight :)
Dorffo
08-17-2009, 02:00 PM
I went back to staggering totems for about 20 arenas or so, I couldnt tell a difference at all. Possibly hotfixed, or the mechanic just works differently in arena, but almost every fear I get my shamans move a good 5-15 yards before being cured, staggered or not.
When staggering them, were you extra careful to make sure there was a long enough pause between drops(1 sec give or take)? I find that in the heat of battle I tend to think I'm staggering them when in fact they all go down within a second or so of each other (which doesnt help so much).
mrmcgee21
08-17-2009, 02:20 PM
Been doing multibox arenas since s3, I know how to stagger them.
I went back to staggering totems for about 20 arenas or so, I couldnt tell a difference at all. Possibly hotfixed, or the mechanic just works differently in arena, but almost every fear I get my shamans move a good 5-15 yards before being cured, staggered or not.
I don´t know if ther have been a hotfix, I stagger tremors in arena when i play and it works fine for me
And when i actually do get fears its usally my own fault because i placed them to fast, I usally spam my keys and that dosn´t really work well.
I know you´re a good player and proberly stagger your totems correct. I have no idea why it works for me and not for some of you guys
Its some weeks ago I played arena last now, so I have no clue if there has been a hotfix
Dorffo
08-17-2009, 05:07 PM
didn't mean to imply anything negative with that question ... much like Selz I am somewhat at a loss as to why you're seeing different results
Otlecs
08-18-2009, 04:25 AM
I tried this last night on a heroic HoL run. Running through the part where the statues all come to life and periodically fear me, I used to spend a good amount of time collecting my guys up.
Last night, with staggered tremor totems down I had exactly the same behaviour as seen in the video - the fear appeared and then disappeared instantly. Every single time.
Ok, so it's not very scientific, but I'm sold on the idea that they do indeed "stack" again :)
I just can´t see why it should be different in arena either, im not saying I know sence its sometime ago i played arena, but I mean they can´t really do that, every class kind of need their abilities to work
Imagin if there was two warlocks in arena but only one could summon their pet because the other used it.
Multibocks
08-18-2009, 10:16 AM
Been doing multibox arenas since s3, I know how to stagger them.
Did anyone mouseover kill them?
Fat Tire
08-18-2009, 03:52 PM
Did anyone mouseover kill them?
Most just target them and kill them now
thedreameater
08-24-2009, 01:20 PM
Simply stunning.
Are you using ISBoxer? I noticed when you turn all your slaves turn the same direction. That's the part which kills me, having them face the same way. With ISBoxer I can turn on mouse sends and use mouse-look, but I run with my mouse as well, and that can be bad - must unlearn.
What is your set up hardware wise?
PRO VID!!!!
Multibocks
08-24-2009, 01:27 PM
I tested this btw on the dinosaur in Draktheron and it worked perfectly, instant fear breaks.
Simply stunning.
Are you using ISBoxer? I noticed when you turn all your slaves turn the same direction. That's the part which kills me, having them face the same way. With ISBoxer I can turn on mouse sends and use mouse-look, but I run with my mouse as well, and that can be bad - must unlearn.
What is your set up hardware wise?
PRO VID!!!!
I do my turns on A and D, if i want to turn on camera i use the mouse, i only move with mouse when im mounted :)
els i use the Nostromo N52 for special moments
Im useing Keyclone and i love it
Hardware:
12GB ram
i7-920 2.66Ghz standart @ 5.1Ghz compres cooling
4x SSD in raid0
3x Readon 4870 (bit old but its doing alright)
Vista 64bit
G15 keybord
The reason its laggy in the movie is because the windows movie maker sux, on the real fraps movie its perfect :D
thedreameater
09-28-2009, 02:33 PM
I do my turns on A and D, if i want to turn on camera i use the mouse, i only move with mouse when im mounted :)
els i use the Nostromo N52 for special moments
Im useing Keyclone and i love it
Hardware:
12GB ram
i7-920 2.66Ghz standart @ 5.1Ghz compres cooling
4x SSD in raid0
3x Readon 4870 (bit old but its doing alright)
Vista 64bit
G15 keybord
The reason its laggy in the movie is because the windows movie maker sux, on the real fraps movie its perfect :D
How exactly did you (or anyone) pull this off? Macro? Built into your mbox program? What worked?
Menthu
09-28-2009, 08:39 PM
There was -definitely- a time when the behaviour was changed so that all of the pulsing totems pulsed together no matter how you staggered them (i.e. it pulsed on a server-side timer that was unrelated to the time at which you dropped the totem).
I think 3.1 brought that in and lots of us have spent an embarassing amount of time running around like headless chickens ever since!
Thanks for the apparent evidence that it's been reverted to the old behaviour now though - I'll be setting up my new PvP totem sequence tonight :)
Since Cleansing Totem doesnt pulls when you put it down, it explains that the timer starts from the moment you put it down. So in that case there is no servertimer or whatever.
Just in case someone was still wandering.
Junglelove,
-Menthu
thedreameater
09-28-2009, 09:05 PM
Is this the macro:
/castsequence reset=combat tremor totem , , ,
/castsequence reset=combat , tremor totem, ,
/castsequence reset=combat , , tremor totem,
/casysequence reset=combat , , , tremor totem
or this?
(Toon 1)
#Showtooltip Tremor Totem
/castsequence reset=15 tremor totem,,,
(Toon 2)
#showtooltip Tremor Totem
/castsequence reset=15 ,tremor totem,,
(Toon 3)
#showtooltip Tremor Totem
/castsequence reset=15 ,,tremor totem,
(Toon 4)
#showtooltip Tremor Totem
/castsequence reset=15 ,,,tremor totem
Menthu
09-28-2009, 09:11 PM
(Toon 1)
#Showtooltip Tremor Totem
/castsequence reset=15 tremor totem,,,
(Toon 2)
#showtooltip Tremor Totem
/castsequence reset=15 ,tremor totem,,
(Toon 3)
#showtooltip Tremor Totem
/castsequence reset=15 ,,tremor totem,
(Toon 4)
#showtooltip Tremor Totem
/castsequence reset=15 ,,,tremor totem
This.
You need to combine it with your other totems ofcourse. In that case you replace the "," with the other totem names.
Junglelove,
Menthu
thedreameater
09-28-2009, 09:20 PM
This.
You need to combine it with your other totems ofcourse. In that case you replace the "," with the other totem names.
Junglelove,
Menthu
Rock and roll. Thanks. I will keep this as an oh-crap button in case I can catch a fear bomb.
Otlecs
09-29-2009, 08:00 AM
Since Cleansing Totem doesnt pulls when you put it down, it explains that the timer starts from the moment you put it down
I don't follow your logic. Cleansing Totem doesn't aggro anything except by proximity, so it doesn't actually demonstrate anything.
Are you saying that your Cleansing Totem will effectively "pull" when it pulses?! That would be very, very odd.
edit: OH, sorry, I see now. Pulse, not pulls. Ok. Well, it's an interesting observation but still doesn't demonstrate anything at all about timers. Not that it matters of course, because I think it's pretty clear that Tremor Totems behave as they used to, and staggering them is a Good Thing.
As for how to place them, the best thing is to have your normal totem drop include one, and then a castsequence as shown above to place additional ones individually as needed.
That's a better idea than interleaving your other totems in the macro and not using the nice single GCD totem drop that Blizz so kindly gave us :)
suicidesspyder
09-29-2009, 12:40 PM
Ok my question is like someone else asked and never got answered. You know the new drop all your totems at once thing blizzard implamented. Is it possible to the the ancestor or w.e one you one have all the totems in that and do a round robin with all your toons. Also if so how would you put in a break into the round robin if your wanting to make sure you wait a sec. Because i dont know about you all but i get button happy in the heat of the battle and just mash. So i want to be able to mash that button but make sure it takes at least a sec between drops. So in otherwords,,,
ToonA
alt1 drops tremor, fire, wind, water
break for at least a second can still mash button but nothing happens till that second has gone by
ToonB
alt1 drops same stuff
ToonC,D,E
All do the same thing thing as previous.
Because also in this i want to make sure i drop at least 2 or 3 cleasing totems damn rogues and hunters lol.
thedreameater
10-03-2009, 03:08 AM
This.
You need to combine it with your other totems ofcourse. In that case you replace the "," with the other totem names.
Junglelove,
Menthu
I changed the macro to drop spirit of the elements and got it to work for a bit, but it's broke now.
/castsequence reset=15 Spirit of the Elements,,,
The dino in DTK didnt fear me a few times, neither did the shadow nightmare 2nd boss of ToC. Now I get feared all the time.
Question - do you spam the button x4, hit it, wait, hit it, wait, how do you drop em? Does anyone use automation to drop em?
thedreameater
10-04-2009, 04:54 PM
I changed the macro to drop spirit of the elements and got it to work for a bit, but it's broke now.
/castsequence reset=15 Spirit of the Elements,,,
The dino in DTK didnt fear me a few times, neither did the shadow nightmare 2nd boss of ToC. Now I get feared all the time.
Question - do you spam the button x4, hit it, wait, hit it, wait, how do you drop em? Does anyone use automation to drop em?
Anyone? How exactly do you drop your totems - spam it or wait or what?
I drop and wait because I can't drop my tremor totems when I'm feared. In AV when defense is our problem, I sometimes defend towers. I go upstairs, go inside the flag room, plant totems near the flag. Drop Tremor totems one by one. Any opposing faction enters = dead. If there are too many enemies, drop Fire Elemental Totem + Thunderstorm ;) + If you have one Druid "Typhoon"
Multibocks
10-06-2009, 05:56 PM
I think counting outloud 1 onethousand 2 onethousand 3, etc for dropping the totems would be a good idea. 4 tremors in 4 secs would be almost fear immunity.
Rowdysattva
10-18-2009, 11:32 PM
I have been wondering about this a lot myself as breaking fear early is the key to me staying viable against groups of enemies. When i break fear i can generally last and do well and when i get feared for too long then it is a pita.
I want to extend HUGE THANKS to you for doing this service for the community.
I will do my best to use this knowledge as half the battle with the other half being pew pew.
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