Dk vs Pally for a 4x Shaman PVE Heroic group??

[Teamshug]

That is the question... hehe


Now i have zero experience playing eigther of these 2 classes and i have never played a tank before. I want the best/most effective but most importantly, the simplest to control(on button tank macro).


i have done some reading and i what i got was: Pally= better 1 button/easy tanker for the group, DK almost as good, cause of an aoe tank style with a spell dmg buff for the shamans, but a bit more pain in the a$$ to control as a tank for the group.


I currently have 5x lvl 80 Shamans (wished i had lvled 4x and a tank lol)

My Dk is lvl 60

My Pally is lvl 1, LOL

The problem is, i really dont wanna have to lvl a pally if i can just keep going with my DK, as long as the Dk will PWN heroics for me and my shamans, but if a pally is better than the DK by a wide.. margin i might lvl the pally.


Pleas shoot me straight on this, i already read some of the nerfs heading the DK's way, but will it make them an incapable tank, or not?

HELP :)

~Teamshug

[rulemaker]

Well i tried tanking with both on lvl80 and in my opinion pally tanking is much easier (One-Button-Tank). While DK tanking does more damage, it is more complex due to rune system and cooldown mechanics.

Survivability depends on your build (DK) and pally tanking and leveling is really easy, so you should give it a try.

p.s.: *sorry for my bad english*

[shaeman]

If you have RAF then quick level the pally to 60 and beyond.

If not then take the DK and level him to 80 and gear him out.
He'll tank fine.

You will be able to concentrate on tanking with the DK whilst one button spamming the damage from the shaman.

[Marathon]

Pally for the buffs.

[Lyonheart]

I have both a paly tank and a DK.. both geared enough to tank heroics. i also have a geared out druid, So i have a tried 3 different and popular setups. Paly+4shams..DK+4shams..paly+1 moonkin+3 shams. And even though you can crank out a tad more dps with dk+shams or adding a moonkin, Paly+4 shaman is, by far, the easiest.

Also Overall dps for me seems to go up using the paly+ 4 shaman. When i use my DK i have to wait longer before i start spamming dps, or ill lose agro for a sec and have to stop. With the druid, my shaman do more dps but the druid cant keep up.. or is oom more often.

All in all, stick with the paly+4shaman if you want simplicity!

[Jubber]

If you don't feel like leveling your pally then the DK will do great. All tanks will pwn heroics it's just a matter of ease. Obviously as everyone else has indicated a pally tank will make it a snoozefest. A dk tank has a few more cooldowns you need to keep an eye on but not as difficult as people make it out to be. Plus leveling your DK from 60-80 will be over before you know it.

On days where I feel like mindless farming I definately pick up my pally. On days I feel I want to be more of a participant rather than a button masher I pick my DK. On days I wanna go crazy I pick my warrior although alot more hectic as i am still learning the ways of a prot warrior.

[Natch]

In my humble opinion, in this scenario, paladin tanking is so easy (mindless spamming of one macro) it gets really boring after a few weeks @ 80, but maybe that's just me..

[wowphreak]

I would grab a dk for ebon plague bringer 13% increase to yer shammies dps hard to beat.

I finally got my dk geared enough to tank now just debating on whether or not to drop the pali for something else or keep em and go retri on em.

[stoat]

Before 3.2 DK hands down. No reason not to use a paladin now though free cheat death, more mitigation, more hp... unholy continues to be the worst tanking tree - you give up quite a bit to get that 13% dmg.

With the new welfare gear any tank will work for all heroics though, it'll just be a matter of farming the easy ones to gear out first. With 4 semi geared shamans you just steamroll everything anyway.

[Dorffo]

I was sorely tempted to go with the DK for the spell damage boost - but after playing around last nigh with the new argent defender save, I gotta say my love for the Pali tank is back.

I'm probably going to rotate in a boomkin for the 13% instead.

[Teamshug]

i Thank all you guys that took the time to post and help me out!!! XD

My Dk is sitting in hellfire shelved hehe

I did end up doing something drastic.... i made a new account just for the RAf bonus..:) and my pally is now lvl 24 ish.

however... it sucks to boost with a single ele shaman.. i have a feeling, late in the 60's twords BC ill need to bring in more shamans to boost faster and mor efficient.



ADD: ohh and i saw videos of how a DK has to use a taunt spell, just like a mage uses blizzard and that instantly turned me off to Dk taking.

[Zal]

Pally because DKs keep getting owned by the nerf bat

[thedreameater]

My boys are finally 80 and I want to run dungeons, but do I need to dual spec one resto? I have LHW bound so all my shaman heal the tank - yet this stops dps.

What has worked? Turning one resto or is it not needed?

[Lyonheart]

My boys are finally 80 and I want to run dungeons, but do I need to dual spec one resto? I have LHW bound so all my shaman heal the tank - yet this stops dps.

What has worked? Turning one resto or is it not needed?

I find that just keeping one shamy resto is easy. I can clear many bosses in heroics with 4 ele BUT some fights are just easier with someone as a full time healer. I could clear all trash and most bosses with 4 Elemental shaman but I just like the ease of having a resto full time. And before your geared you NEED a resto unless you want to stop dps to heal a lot. So 1 resto healing and 3 Ele DPSing all the time or 4 eles stopping to heal.

[thedreameater]

before your geared you NEED a resto unless you want to stop dps to heal a lot. So 1 resto healing and 3 Ele DPSing all the time or 4 eles stopping to heal.

What would you define as geared? I am clearly not there yet, but curious to know when I've arrived. :P You can see my armory in my sig.

Thank you SOOO much for the fast response - god damn I love this community. I get asked "How are you doing that!" and such all the time in BGs and always send them to this site because the community rules so much.

[thedreameater]

You have two (well, three) options.

1) Paladin + B.Druid + 3x Shaman

2) DK + 4x Shaman

3) The third would be Paladin + B.Druid + Warlock + 2x Shaman

First time you battle rez - innervate a downed toon, you'll fall in love with the Balance Druid.

Lots of folks here have went on and on about the DK 13% Dmg. Buff. The other two classes that bring that are B.Druids and Warlock (CoE).

Yeah, druid is next to be added to the list. THX!

[Schwarz]

here is my question about the 13% damage deal.

Has there been anything that Needed the 13% damage debuff? I know more dps = faster dead things.

I recently made the decision to go 1 tank (paladin) and 4 shaman. I just like the feel of this better than 1 tank 3 shaman 1 druid/warlock. I am pretty sure I didn't shoot myself in the foot. I see the 13% damage as a perk not a necessity.

[thedreameater]

When should 4 elemental shaman start doing heroics? What SP, Crit, health, and other stats should they have? In this set up does anyone break from dps to heal, do all of them, or do we just burn everything?

[Schwarz]

Well it is my hope that 4 healing stream totems + earth shield will kinda keep the tank up.

The whole thing about keeping 4 shaman is kinda nostalgic for me. I 5 boxed shaman in BC. I brought up 4 shaman and a mage (bad bad decision should have went 5th shaman or tank).

So fuhr in response to your question I have one for you. Why do you have more than 1 shaman? Adding a Priest Healer will also add buffs (stam/wisdom i think). Basically I think it is a slippery slope and I decided to stay at the top.

[thedreameater]

to Schwartz and Fur - the reason I went 4 ele shaman was because of the 'tried and true' promise as mentioned. Plus I love shaman. I have gotten SOOO much better, also. I'm able to watch both Bunkers in AV simultaneously now.

In the future I might add a druid to the line up. I already have a pally and DK at 80, Druid at 70, on my main account. The only reason I am running heroics, however, is to gear up for pvp. Pvp is my main focus and quadding 4 shaman in pvp has become second nature.

I'll be switching one of my shaman to resto tonight. Any resto specs which work best for 3 ele, 1 rest, 1 tank?

What about this - http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=7&tal=0000000000000000000000000005052030000000000000 0000000055035030035310501122031251

Thanks again!

[moosejaw]

This thread has me wanting to integrate my other 80's. I leveled my old solo toons to 80 as a group (never intending to instance them) before I leveled the paly/shaman team. two weeks ago I fired up the shaman team and leveled to 80 and started doing heroics. I have a dk, Lock, priest, hunter and mage all ready to join in. I might set them up with the paly tank and see how bad/good the priest healing is. the priest actually did some heroics/raids solo so she is much better off on gear than the others.

My only druid is mired at 40. I need to get on the instance grind to level his butt up and join the fun.

As for your resto spec, it is almost the same as my resto except I took improved shields instead of ghost wolf, Ancestral healing, tidal force and shortened reincarnate. You probably took ghost wolf for pvp but you could always save up and dual spec your resto shaman. I love the resto shaman.

[Eggy]

Well, I run both a mixed group and a shaman group, and I gotto say that the mixed group pulls out ahead, but they arnt 80 yet, the mixed crew is at 73 while my shamans should be 80 soonish. I did run quite a few tests at 72 doing the same instances and like I said, the mixed group pulls ahead by alot at that level.

I got a DK and a paladin as tank, and they both perform similar in terms of tanking. Mixed group is usualy DK(Frost spec), Boomkin, Mage(arcane), lock(dest) and priest(holy, but thinking about speccing disc). At 72 the Mage and lock was both doing around 1400 DPS while my shamans and boomkin was around 800, ofcourse I didnt have Lava Burst yet and i'm eager to see how they stack up at 80, but I can't imagin that it will be anywhere near my mage and lock even with lava burst. However at that level I do plan to mix and match as I see fit, theres really no reason not to as the mixed crew could really use the totems and the shamans imo, could use the +spell damage and/or group healing of the priest(LOVE Prayer of Mending).

[Lyonheart]

I'm assuming you mean more than one ELEMENTAL Shaman. As one of my three is Resto. <3 Chain Healz & Earth Sheildz

Anyway, I'm seriously considering dropping my second Elm. Shaman for a Fire Mage. I've been theory crafting about it all day, and I've got a Mage on that account around level 50 already. /w00t

My group would end up being:
Prot. Paladin
Resto Shaman
Elemental Shaman
Balance Druid
Fire Mage (*maybe* frost)

The Paladin + 4x Shaman group is tried and true. It works, period. But as my multiboxing skillset has greatly increased over the last year or so, I find myself looking for new challenges. I took on the Druid as a new challenge, and I think I've got that sorted out. Now I want to add more. I would add a Priest too, but I hate the way a Priest heals. (had a 70 one, just don't like it)

I used to think 4x tremor totems was mandatory, staggered of course. I've overcome that. I used to thing grounding totems were mandatory - haven't used them since Wrath went live (well, a little in PvP).

As you play more and do more - you'll get better. And a lot of the crutches you used you'll learn to live without. Shaman resurrection is a huge crutch... learn2group heal instead. :) 4x Chain heal is another. I'm not knocking these abilities, I think they're cool as hell - but you can get more out of a group when you add more classes and synergize. My Shaman are always at the top or near the top of the damage meters in 25 man raids. They work great, trust me (the Boomkin helps them get there with the 13% dmg buff). But the thought of having all the perks of a Mage are always in the back of my mind. Portals? YES PLZ. When I do dailies / questing I spend a crap ton of time traveling. A Mage could really help that. - and with the new expansion being back in Azeroth - back in the old world - Portals are going to be invaluable!

Anyway... wall of text crit for 10k

you just inspired me to finish leveling my mage ( 74 atm ) I got my 2nd T9 for my team yesterday and am bored. Time to gear up the druid and Mage!

[thedreameater]

This thread has me wanting to integrate my other 80's. I leveled my old solo toons to 80 as a group (never intending to instance them) before I leveled the paly/shaman team. two weeks ago I fired up the shaman team and leveled to 80 and started doing heroics. I have a dk, Lock, priest, hunter and mage all ready to join in. I might set them up with the paly tank and see how bad/good the priest healing is. the priest actually did some heroics/raids solo so she is much better off on gear than the others.

My only druid is mired at 40. I need to get on the instance grind to level his butt up and join the fun.

As for your resto spec, it is almost the same as my resto except I took improved shields instead of ghost wolf, Ancestral healing, tidal force and shortened reincarnate. You probably took ghost wolf for pvp but you could always save up and dual spec your resto shaman. I love the resto shaman.

I did take ghost wolf for pvp, but I'm really going resto for pve - so I'll switch it back. Eventually I might pvp as resto, but until I have the gear to 4x ele, pve = one resto, 3 ele.

Thanks!