Ideas and advice - 3x rogues

[chaosultimamage]

Ok, so, I got my rogues to 39,38, & 38 last night. Got both my awesome swords, +20 agi on them, had all my other twink gear waiting and ready in gbank. Walked into AB and was ready to pwn some face.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Illidan&n=St%C3%AA%C3%A4lth - main 39 rogue
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Illidan&n=St%C3%A8%C3%A0lth
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Illidan&n=Ste%C3%A4lth

Basically, as long as I stayed near the flag and caught unsuspecting attackers, I just slaughtered. As soon as I went to try to cap a flag, I failed. I just couldn't keep my slaves on my target, especially damn hunters, when they keep running while fighting.

So, more or less, I'd like to know if anyone else has done this? For PvE thus far, 3x rogues has been brutal, everything dies in seconds, 3x sap ftw, and stealth is always sweet. But, like I said, PvP made me really think "maybe I should just leave one at 39, one at 49, and maybe keep leveling one", instead of trying to do my original idea of twinking them all and just granting the 19 levels down to some of my existing lowbies.

Right now, I have the macros all setup to do the same attack on each rogue, with mild exception (gouge is bound to 4,5,6 so I can do them independently and only my main uses Cheapshot, since shen they come out of stealth, they can't do it). I was debating changing my finisher to something different on each too - Eviscerate, Rupture, and Kidney Shot - so I can keep them stunned without waste and still do a ton of damage. But, this still causes problems if I can't get the slave on the enemy.

I have plenty of experience playing one rogue. I have a 71 rogue on another server that I twinked at 29,39, and 49 last year before just leveling it, but this definitely makes for a whole new challenge. I had some fun world pvp so far, though, all of which was me sneaking up on an unsuspecting Alliance and insta-gibbing them.

[Ualaa]

One of the rogues will be your main, which you can control yourself quite easily.
The other two will be slaves, so control of them will be a lot harder.

For the most part we're forced to use follow, to control their movement.

If you enable "Click to Move" in Interface - Mouse options.
And bind a key to "Interact with Target" in Keybinds.

You can give a rogue (or any toon, but melee is best) a target and have them interact with it.
For a hostile, they will run to it, and then auto attack.
It is not a follow command, but you can spam Interact and pretty much stay with someone who even dances and hops through your group like an idiot.

Given that you won't be able to ensure you're behind your target (unless they run, but don't strafe away)..
Combat spec with swords (more damage) or maces (random stuns) will probably be better dps for your slaves.
Not sure what level you'll eventually take them to, but Killing Spree is pretty sick in pvp.

You might want to give them independent Interact hotkeys.
It's easy enough to stick them on a bar somewhere and keybind it to F10, F11 and F12.
Maybe Rogue 1, Rogue 2, both Rogue 1 & Rogue 2. You play Rogue 3 manually.

For their dps macro's, possibly use the Click type macro's.
Put their spam on a button you can easily access.
Have this macro, Click the button the Interact is on.
Have this macro also click their dps moves.
You would ideally spam this button, and have Interact fairly frequently in the macro, possibly every 2nd or 3rd line.
Since its not a spell, it does not incur a GCD, and you'll want it frequent to keep your toons on target.
The thread for Click stuff is here: Utilizing /click to run concurrent castsequences ('http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&postID=176153&highlight=click+multi#post176153')


*Edit*
Hmm, cannot macro Interact with Target.
You'll need to manually click it a lot.
You could have Interact bound to 2, the dps macro bound to 1 on the slaves.
On the main, dps macro is on 1, and probably nothing on 2.
Then you simultaneously mash 1 and 2, which has the slaves interact and dps.

Any two keys which are close will work. You could even use mouse buttons, if they're close enough to click together.
As long as they don't interfere with your mouse use and the hotkeys for your main/master toon.

[chaosultimamage]

Yeah, I remember reading that you cannot macro the Interact. I currently have it bound to Shift+F , since F by itself is follow. I do not use click to move with it yet, though, since I never liked the idea of my toons running off to attack something without me. Usually just make sure they're in range the old fashioned way. I definitely can see how it'd be useful, though. I'll try this tonight.

Also, looking at the /click topic, that gave me a LOT of ideas, but nothing that really sticks out for rogues, since all my standard attacks are just standard global cooldowns, but with an energy cost. I'll most certainly be trying that stuff out with my hunter / priest / lock team and my shammy team.

My current macros, pretty much are as follows (A = my main toon, B and C = slave)
** Of course, all actions done by slaves are currently /assist focus and target=focustarget
---------------------------------------------------------
non-stealth
1 = all three do Sinister Strike
2 = A) Eviscerate, B and C) Rupture - need to change one of these to Kidney Shot
3 = A) Kidney Shot, B and C) Eviscerate - maybe make one of these Rupture
4 = A) Gouge
5 = B) Gouge
6 = C) Gouge
8 = Vanish
9 = Stealth
0 = Sprint
- = A) Shoot (for pulls, rarely used)
= = Cannibalize since they're undead, saves me from needing food or bandage usually, need to level First Aid on each of them, though

stealth
1 = Sap (I click to the respective window and do this manually for PvE, in PvP, I probably don't have time to do multiple saps, so not an issue)
2 = A) Garrote
3 = B and C) Garrote
4 = A) Cheapshot
9 = De-Stealth
0 = Sprint

[5fingersofdoom]

I'm doing 5x rogues atm,almost ready to ding 70.
I've taken them into BG's AV mostly.
I like them,but I find them incredibly difficult to control,as opposed to my DK's,shamans,hunters ect
My spec is heavy sublety,just for stealth mainly,so I currently use shadowstep alot to get them all behind my target,alot of times lag messes this up.
So for the future i'm thinking of trying Killing Spree and see if it makes any difference.
Out of all my teams I have to say Rogues are the most difficult.

[Tdog]

Honestly man it just takes some practice. When you got a class on your main that can CC your main just be ready to switch mains quickly, if you don't have it set-up to switch mains I highly suggest you do it now especially if you're going to be pvp a ton. Also interact with target + click to move are your friend, put interact with target on a button close enough to the hand you steer your toons with but out of the way that it doesn't screw anything up. I personally use E on the keyboard.

Couple of ideas...
Rogues have tons of stuns, open up with one rogue cheap shotting and the other's doing w/e. Put Kidney Shot on round robin, once Cheap shot comes off, stunlock those damn hunters/melee that like to run around like crazy. 3x Kidney Shot is probably enough to keep any one target stunlocked, just practice your timing and people will pretty much be unable to move like ever ;) . I see you're using 3 buttons for gouge on 3 different toons, just use round robin on this ability too and you won't even have to remember whose CD is up next. For buttons 2 and 3 you're in doubt about which ability to use on those buttons. Use some modifiers so that you can have each button able to use more than one ability so you can just use whichever ability bests suits the circumstances. Example: /use [modifier:shift] eviscerate; rupture


I'm doing 5x rogues atm,almost ready to ding 70.
I've taken them into BG's AV mostly.
I like them,but I find them incredibly difficult to control,as opposed to my DK's,shamans,hunters ect
My spec is heavy sublety,just for stealth mainly,so I currently use shadowstep alot to get them all behind my target,alot of times lag messes this up.
So for the future i'm thinking of trying Killing Spree and see if it makes any difference.
Out of all my teams I have to say Rogues are the most difficult.Man 5x Killing Spree could very very fun in the right circumstances :D !

[chaosultimamage]

I've never used round robin, I like being more in control of it. Besides, I rarely need to gouge on other others. I would probably put Kick on round robin, though. Again, doubt I'd really end up needing it on the slaves. If I switch around the finishers I have now, it'd accommodate for full stunlockage w/ kidney shot, shouldn't need round robin for that either, I wouldn't think.

didn't get around to trying this any this weekend. Just did some solo BGs and leveling a new team.

My basic idea as far as attacking seems like it would stay the same whether 1 toon or 5 or whatever. If able to be stealthed, open with Cheap shot for 2 or 3 combo points, slaves hit Garrote, then sinister strike on all three, then finishers would be Kidney Shot, Eviscerate, and Rupture simultaneously. If this doesn't kill a single target, then they will be damn near dead and still stunned anyway.

If not stealthed, Gouge on my main, then Sinister Strike w/ all three, finisher for stun (or hopefully death).

My autoattacks do a good bit of damage, so those are not to be neglected.

One other thing I need to do, when I'm running all three, is make sure Will of the Forsaken is keybound for all of them. May only be able to do it every minute or so, but that'll help for those Howl of Terrors and priest fear.

[Tdog]

Well most of those ideas were more focused around the situations of going up against other melee or classes that have high mobility and you're having a difficult time getting and keeping the follower's in attack range.

Obviously if they aren't moving much and all three are able in melee range they are going to chew up their hp pretty quick.
One other thing I need to do, when I'm running all three, is make sure Will of the Forsaken is keybound for all of them. May only be able to do it every minute or so, but that'll help for those Howl of Terrors and priest fear.Umm...heck yes! Fear protection is very important especially for melee boxers.

However don't neglect "click to move" and "interact with target" when your WOTF and PVP trinket are both on CD and you get feared, you will almost always be out of /follow range, however the range with "interact with target" is something like 3-4 times the distance and you will almost always be able to use this after a fear to get all your guys back in range.

[chaosultimamage]

Yeah, I've started using click to move w/ the interact on my slaves. It's helped a good bit with just random things, haven't gotten to test it thoroughly on my rogues in pvp. I woke up this morning with that in mind...then I remembered servers were down. Damn Blizzard.

[blast3r]

I have 5 rogues at level 80. My gear sucks for the most part and my DPS is really low. They are a lot of fun world pvp but not so great in bgs. If you get around a few enemy players at once it is just a pita. Now Killing Spree and Fan of Knives is pretty awesome and will help a lot.

I am going to look at Tdog's suggestion on the stuns. I really don't have any of that macro'd on my rogues.

[chaosultimamage]

Okay, so I tried again some last night. Did a lot worse still on 3 than I did on just 1, but I did better than before.

Biggest problem was still keeping the slave on the target - even using click to move w/ interact. They'd run straight past the guy and keep running, then i'd press interact again and they get on him for a second, then run off again lol. It's retarded.

I did get some awesome flag room saves w/ triple sapping people.

[5fingersofdoom]

Honestly man it just takes some practice. When you got a class on your main that can CC your main just be ready to switch mains quickly, if you don't have it set-up to switch mains I highly suggest you do it now especially if you're going to be pvp a ton. Also interact with target + click to move are your friend, put interact with target on a button close enough to the hand you steer your toons with but out of the way that it doesn't screw anything up. I personally use E on the keyboard.

Couple of ideas...
Rogues have tons of stuns, open up with one rogue cheap shotting and the other's doing w/e. Put Kidney Shot on round robin, once Cheap shot comes off, stunlock those damn hunters/melee that like to run around like crazy. 3x Kidney Shot is probably enough to keep any one target stunlocked, just practice your timing and people will pretty much be unable to move like ever ;) . I see you're using 3 buttons for gouge on 3 different toons, just use round robin on this ability too and you won't even have to remember whose CD is up next. For buttons 2 and 3 you're in doubt about which ability to use on those buttons. Use some modifiers so that you can have each button able to use more than one ability so you can just use whichever ability bests suits the circumstances. Example: /use [modifier:shift] eviscerate; rupture



I'm doing 5x rogues atm,almost ready to ding 70.
I've taken them into BG's AV mostly.
I like them,but I find them incredibly difficult to control,as opposed to my DK's,shamans,hunters ect
My spec is heavy sublety,just for stealth mainly,so I currently use shadowstep alot to get them all behind my target,alot of times lag messes this up.
So for the future i'm thinking of trying Killing Spree and see if it makes any difference.
Out of all my teams I have to say Rogues are the most difficult.Man 5x Killing Spree could very very fun in the right circumstances :D !

Hope so i'll post it if its good. :)

[Ualaa]

Interact and Click to Move, will move them to where the target is/was, at the time you clicked the key.

So ideally, you'd enable Click to Move, and have the Slave DPS and Interact keybinds next to each other.
Like 1 and 2, or comma and period. So you can mash the keys together.

Still moves like Shadow Step or Killing Spree will have them do their own movement or teleport somewhere for you.
The rogue is king of the world with cooldowns up, but very dependent on having them available.

[HPAVC]

I would love to see a 5 rogue video.Kudos for trying that out!

I tried on PTR a year or so ago and it was pretty difficult beyond the initial opener. I just couldn't get finishing moves at all working like a normal player would, mostly because of spells that didn't land that put the team way out of sequence and leaving me in a place wehere /castrandom did better than sequence casting.

But being able to teleport on foes made up for a lot.

[Tdog]

Okay, so I tried again some last night. Did a lot worse still on 3 than I did on just 1, but I did better than before.

Biggest problem was still keeping the slave on the target - even using click to move w/ interact. They'd run straight past the guy and keep running, then i'd press interact again and they get on him for a second, then run off again lol. It's retarded.

I did get some awesome flag room saves w/ triple sapping people.Yea it's kinda dumb that Blizzard designed/left it like that. I personally don't use it all the time. For getting my followers in range I just have /follow in my attacks for my melee classes and just practice using your main to get the followers to face the right direction.

What I do use IWT (interact with target) for is when one gets feared or blasted too far away or whatever for /follow to work. You can spam the crap out of IWT though and it still works decently well but if the target is moving all about, yea your guys are going to be running all over and you will need to constantly spam it. About the only time I do that is if my main gets stunned or something and I don't feel like switching mains.