GameCommanderPro

[shadoman]

Hey you boxers!

I'm coming back to Europe after a year in Oz, and planning to give multiboxing a whirl once i arrive in lag-free territory ;) I have been looking around the web and especially this site for a couple days now, trying to choose which program to use. I'll be running 5 accounts on one PC (windows, argh), and i kinda narrowed my options down a bit by now.

I'm not going with the newest thing (don't dare to name the guy cos i want this thread to be productive), simply because his reputation scares me off a bit.
That leaves KeyClone and GameCommanderPro as the two that look most user-friendly and easiest to set up.

The one thing i'm absolutely unable to find out so far is wether any of these has mouse support, fit for AoE on multiple mages (blizzard specifically). Can an AoE spell be launched on (roughly) the same area by all mages? No need to be the exact same location, but an 80ish % overlap is what i'm hoping for.

I know the GameCommanderPro thing hasnt been around as long as KeyClone, but if anyone has tried either (or even better, both), i would love to be able to compare a bit before i take the plunge. The 10$ difference is not going to be the end of the world, i'll be paying 5 WoW's after all ;)

In any case, thanks for these forums and all the brain-picking opportunity they already offered me, i've learned loads and i haven't even started yet! You'll be hearing from me!

[Simulacra]

Hi - Keyclone does have mouse replication for each screen, I found it the other day by accident and it works well - each mouse pointer goes to exactly the same spot on each screen so you could easily use blizzard.
I've never heard of gamecommanderpro so can't comment but have been a long time user of keyclone and can endorse it wholeheartedly - btw I'm in aus and the lag isn't that bad lol I get 250ms.

[Yamio]

Personally, I've never heard of GameCommanderPro either. It's funny that your first post is asking about a comparison between and fairly famous multiboxing program, and one that's not so much. What about some of the others that are kind of popular? Have you ever thought about considering any of those?

I use Keyclone and like Simulacra said, you can do AOE with it.

[shadoman]

thanks for the fast reply :))

as for the lag, mine is so dreadful because im on european servers AND using one of those horrible telstra usb modems at the moment :) i have been travelling so wired connection was out of the question...which means 700ms on average, with some days at 1500_2000, NOT the circumstances you wish to multibox in i guess :)

Thanks again!

[shadoman]

I've been reading up on the others, but KeyClone seems to come out as the top notch one, according to the comments here, so that would be my running favourite.

As for GCP, on their site it looks like a neat program with a good interface for creating several castsequence macro's, and several back-up plans for when the *ahem* faecalia hit some ventilators. Seems like it allows you to get a standard rotation going for attacking elites, CC and healing, and fall-back macro's to switch healers. It looks pretty nice with a HUD display that tells you what's going on. It is fairly new however, and their forums only have posts by the author, which makes my spidy-sense tingle a bit tbh. Just hoping to get some feedback from a community that's been into this for a while. And well, Yahoo was around for years when Google suddenly came whooshing down; that didn't exactly make Yahoo bad overnight, Google was just better and easier to use.

Keep the comments coming tho, I'm pretty happy my mouse-question got answered in just 10 minutes :)

[moosejaw]

I am still looking at the website. My first impression is this is where ISBoxer is headed very soon. It is the natural progression to pair up an addon to the key multiplexing software to automate your macro writing and keybinds a little bit.

If this is a serious outfit we should invite them to the DB community. Who knows they may already be here in a non-business form.

[warbringer]

This has some very interesting options. Too bad they don't offer a free trial. I would have given it a go on my 5-mage team but for now i'll stick to keyclone.

[Otlecs]

This is clearly just advertising a new tool - the website's been up since May, and of the ten Google hits (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=gamecommanderpro&meta=), none of them lend any credibility to the product.

Not that anyone here objects to new tools of course. I do have vivid memories of the *cough* lukewarm *cough* reaction KC got when he first turned up as well, so it's nothing personal :)

If your question is genuine, then stick to Keyclone, at least for now - the other product has been around for all of 4 days so let other people be your guinea pigs! Not to scaremonger, but as is always the case when new closed-source software hits the scene it could be absolutely anything at this point.

[Owltoid]

If you're going to spend 100's of hours multiboxing, then IMO it's worth investing time into HotKeyNet. It's the most powerful multiboxing software due to its flexibility. If you make the initial investment to learn how the program works, then it will pay off in the end (plus, it's free!).

[Xorn]

Never tested anything else than AHK and keyclone so I would suggest using keyclone, it's pretty much everything I need.

[zanthor]

This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification

Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:

Info@GameCommanderPro.com

Technical details of permanent failure:
Google tried to deliver your message, but it was rejected by the recipient domain. We recommend contacting the other email provider for further information about the cause of this error. The error that the other server returned was: 550 550 5.1.1 <info@gamecommanderpro.com> recipient rejected (state 14).

I have a hard time buying product when you can't contact the vendor...

[shadoman]

thank you for all the answers everyone! it's a delight seeing how active this community is.

first of all, i am NOT associated with GCP, i came across a link that was, in hindsight, obviously an ad from the makers. It looked promising, and that is why i came here. I have been in contact with keyclone by now, assuring him i am not trying to sell the product, and since then i have sent a mail to the makers (the first one i sent bounced as well, bad points!!, when i resent it, i didnt get an error). If i had realised how young GCP was, i wouldn't have bothered you all about it (yet), but i didn't, so im afraid the harm is done :(
I'll be able to start my multi-project in 2 weeks at the soonest, so i hope more info becomes available by then. In my mail, I suggested the authors make themselves known and give out some trials to the mods here. If they are genuine, i suppose they will; if they aren't...well, i know which one to chose i guess :)

7 genuine answers in less than a day, thanks again!

Shado

[blast3r]

Multiboxers are smarter than your average doofus. Please don't try and insult our intelligence. Thanks

[Otlecs]

im afraid the harm is done
No harm done at all! Don't mind us old-timers scowling at every new person who mentions a tool we've never heard of - we're just a bunch of cynics ;)

It'll be interesting to see how the GameCommander thing shapes up.

Personally, I think people are making more of multiboxing than it needs to be. I was - and still am - perfectly happy with just replicating keystrokes!

[zanthor]

im afraid the harm is done
No harm done at all! Don't mind us old-timers scowling at every new person who mentions a tool we've never heard of - we're just a bunch of cynics ;)

It'll be interesting to see how the GameCommander thing shapes up.

Personally, I think people are making more of multiboxing than it needs to be. I was - and still am - perfectly happy with just replicating keystrokes!And some guy at some point was happy with his slide rule... yet here we are using computers.

[Otlecs]

That's an interesting comparison. I'll save that argument for another day though :)

Multiboxing is -not- complicated. People just make it that way.

[zanthor]

That's an interesting comparison. I'll save that argument for another day though :)

Multiboxing is -not- complicated. People just make it that way.Agreed that it's not complicated at all. It's a very simple concept that allows you to replicate your input to multiple clients.

The ability to replicate all relevant input is vital for maximum performance though. Keyboard is just part of that equation.

[liqiud]

I currently use HotKeyNet for Mouse replication and Keyclone for the rest...I'll have to go back and try Keyclone for the mouse replication.

[shadoman]

Multiboxers are smarter than your average doofus. Please don't try and insult our intelligence. Thanksthanks a lot for that :(

I understand though, and that is why this will be the last thing i post on this subject for a while. I had an answer from the author, and i urged him to make an account here himself, since i am seen as just a spam-troll. I WILL keep reading up on all the info here, since it's a great resource.

Thank you for all the genuine replies in the meantime, see you in 2-3 weeks when i get started myself.

[Aarelan]

Hi

I'm one of the guys behind the product. I've been a WOW player for about 4 years and a multiboxer for 2. I have visited this forum many times, but have never posted before as most of my questions had already been answered.

Thanks for your feedback. I realize the this is KeyClone's web site, and thats why, for fear of upsetting of the community, we didn't attempt to post here.

The post at the start of this thread is not by anyone we know (although I have just replied to his e-mail), we would never attempt to post "stealth" advertising. The e-mail link is now fixed (we had "support@" but not "info@").

About six months ago, I was showing my multi boxing software to someone who suggested that I make it available for public use. Everyone I've shown it to since has been "blown away". For that reason we put a team together to convert my personal system into something that others can easily use. We spent the last few weeks building a web site and support structure and declared it "live" last week. Our software is more about running a team, allowing you to play as a team leader - with your team obeying your commands. We also wanted to present a "one stop shop" approach so that all the setup could be done in one place. We feel this feature not only makes life easier but actually allows access to more capabilities, as you can concentrate on strategy rather than technology.

We are looking for people to try our new software. We do plan to release a limited number of copies of our software to people in exchange for reviews. We're looking for real assessments, not "sound bytes" for advertising.
I'd be grateful if a moderator could let me know whether we could get our software included in this forum at some point.

We are charging a one time fee for the software. We decided to do this for several reasons, including
We wanted to deliver it with professional support and maintenance.
We have plans to go even further.
We want to avoid the situation where we become victims of our own success. Many free products die because, as they become popular, the become costly to support.


Thanks again,

Aarelan (Phil@GameCommanderPro.com)

Aarelan (Palladin), Barelan(Hunter), Carelan(warlock), Darelan(priest),Earelan(mage) - My "nearly" level 30 blood elf mixed team on Stormrage - current "mains"
Akow, Bkow, CKow, Dkow - My lvl 70 tauren druids on Stormrage (I haven't had time for WOTLK as I've been working on the software)
Atrefelonme - Lvl 70 Lock on chromaggus (my 1st toon)
Marchagus(night elf druid), Filsunder(night elf hunter) and later Cadfael(human shadow priest) - My first multibox team - all lvl 70 on chromaggus

[Owltoid]

I currently use HotKeyNet for Mouse replication and Keyclone for the rest...I'll have to go back and try Keyclone for the mouse replication.

Or just use HKN for the rest.

[Gurblash]

Welcome, and thank you for stepping up with your software!

Hopefully you can get in touch with Ellay and you two can work out the details of getting your software on the forums, it looks to be a good contender for software multiboxing solutions.

I realize the this is KeyClone's web siteThe only misconception is that this is his website. While it is not his website, www.solidice.com, this is where he does all of his business for Keyclone.

No harm no foul though.

[thefunk]

Welcome to the forums!

[dimzen]

Hi - Keyclone does have mouse replication for each screen, I found it the other day by accident and it works well - each mouse pointer goes to exactly the same spot on each screen so you could easily use blizzard.
Ehh.. how? :S

[Aarelan]

http://www.gamecommanderpro.com/createspellrotation

Please help me understand how this program works.

Based on the information on this page, it looks like the program is casting the spells for you, based on the rotation you pre-select? That looks a lot like automation to me.

GameCommanderPro does not cast the spells for you. It creates a series of GCP commands, each command casts one spell for each character (which ever spell starts on the black line). It then generates a set of control commands which allow you to cast current spell then move to the next, repeat the last spell (in case the cast fails), skip the next step, or start at the beginning again. Each of these steps is initiated by a keypress. The user decides which key to press. Think of it as a /castsequence for multiple characters with graphical editing.

[Aarelan]

http://www.gamecommanderpro.com/node/57

Explain this too. This looks like scripting to me.


I assume you mean automations when you say scripting, as scripting is build into World of Warcraft, and is obviously not a problem (ie. macros, /script, mods via lua, etc.).

Let me say now that GameCommanderPro is completely legal and uses no automation.

GameCommanderPro only sends keystrokes to World of Warcraft. It only sends 1 keystroke to a window for each user keystroke. The fact that it looks like scripting is exactly the point we are making when we say that GameCommanderPro makes multi boxing more accessible. To take an example from your post,

Self Buffs
----------
KeyReset 6000
<<Vindicaer,Callidaer,Eversaer,Culexaer,Venenaer>>
if %KeyCount% = 1
Cast Buffs On Vindicaer-Target
<<Eversaer,Culexaer,Venenaer>>
macro /script CancelItemTempEnchantment(1)
endif

if %KeyCount% > 1
<<Vindicaer>>
Cast Righteous Fury on Vindicaer-Target
<<Eversaer, Culexaer, Venenaer>>
macro /use Lesser Firestone
macro /use 16 (16 is macro code for weapon hand one)
KeyReset
endif"

Although this is edited as one script its broken down into several macro and generates key bindings for each. The names in "<<>>" simply tell the key mapper which windows to send to. The "Cast" command generates a macro for WoW and a keystroke to invoke it. The "if" and "keyreset" statements simply provide a mechanism for casting a different spell on each press (see /castsequence on WoW website for details of how to achieve this).

[Svpernova09]

Alright, It sounds like you know the difference here. Thanks for spending time to clarify.If Fur had a stamp, I imagine it would be here.



:)

[rahven32]

Hmm this actually looks promising. How do you guys handle window switching or does it? The time line feature is pretty nice. Alot faster than trying to set it up in excel hehe.

Edit: Also how would you set up something like FTL with it?

[Aarelan]

Hmm this actually looks promising. How do you guys handle window switching or does it? The time line feature is pretty nice. Alot faster than trying to set it up in excel hehe.

Edit: Also how would you set up something like FTL with it?

Window switching is built into GameCommanderPro. Your leader is wherever you mouse is pointed, when we talk about leader we mean the biggest window. You can also store a zoomed position and size and have a hotkey (default "CTRL-Z") to zoom the active window.
Here's the follow command created by our setup wizard:
<<All>>
if %$LeaderChan% = 1
Follow Aarelan
endif
if %$LeaderChan% = 2
Follow Barelan
endif
if %$LeaderChan% = 3
Follow Carelan
endif
if %$LeaderChan% = 4
Follow Darelan
endif
if %$LeaderChan% = 5
Follow Earelan
endif

"%LeaderChan%" is the window containing the mouse, so as you can see, making macros dependent on the "active" character is really simple.
For example, in pvp, one tactic is to bust down a multiboxer's leader, but with GCP you could just point to the next window hit "CTRL-Z" and carry on fighting.

Honestly we had to google FTL because we mainly use GCP and we've never come across the FTL problem.

[rahven32]

So the active window is whatever the mouse is at? Now when you say zoom does that mean say I have my tank in the big window (leader) then I'd have to mouse over one of my smaller window's then hit CTRL-Z to make that window the big window? Or can I bind F8-F12 for each window?

[Ualaa]

With Keyclone, pardon my poor images..

I bind a command, or hotkey to each region.



1111111111112222
1111111111112222
1111111111113333
1111111111113333
1111111111114444
1111111111114444


If I press Control F1, the toon in region 1, is brought to that window (which is the default start position).

If I press Control F2, then it swaps the large window...

2222222222221111
2222222222221111
2222222222223333
2222222222223333
2222222222224444
2222222222224444

ISBoxer does something similar, but the active region is large, and instead of swapping, that portion displays your desktop background. So you know which region is active at a glance, because that region shows your background.

So it might look like (I guess this one would be for a 3-box, not a 4-box):

3333333333331111
3333333333331111
3333333333332222
3333333333332222
333333333333
333333333333


How does your software handle (or does it), a picture in picture option?

[Aarelan]

First let me clarify that you dont need to zoom in order to make a character "active", just simply mouse over.
If you do want to use a key to zoom a window, do something like this:

<<Barelan>>
Max
This will zoom my hunter
The command to un-zoom:
Std

You could then assign whichever key you would like to these commands.

You could even just use one key with a "Get" command:

Get, ZoomWho, who would you like to zoom 1-5
Chan %ZoomWho%
Max

This would ask you which window to zoom.

A Slightly more sophisticated version of this would be:

Get, ZoomWho, who would you like to zoom 1-5, 6 to un-zoom
if %ZoomWho% = 6
Std
else
Chan %ZoomWho%
Max
endif

This would allow you to have the un-zoom on the same key.

[Moorea]

Competition is good to improve innovation but I'm curious to why as of late so many people are creating new commercial tools around mboxing - it doesn't seem like a growth market; even with great ease of use and more powerful computers, I don't see many people paying for 5 wow subscription - what's the business plan behind those ?

This behind said I'll be happy to test new software, I have experience with Keyclone and HotKeyNet - just would need some assurance this isn't a fly by night key logging/account harvesting operation :-) (or a clone of the evil one)

[Aarelan]

How does your software handle (or does it), a picture in picture option?

Our zoom is like the second option(ie. zooms not switches). We do however support multiple layouts which can be instantly recalled, so it would take a few minutes to setup but would actualy give you greater flexibility. For instance you could have one window layout, for each combat situation(ie. Tank N Spank, Caster Duel, Complexing Healing).

[rahven32]

How much time does it take to switch window layouts? Reason I ask is I tend to have my main really big and the "slaves" really small basically unplayable but big enough to see that they are where they are supposed to be and facing the right way. If my main dies the time it takes to switch to the other layout can be very important.

[Aarelan]

Competition is good to improve innovation but I'm curious to why as of late so many people are creating new commercial tools around mboxing - it doesn't seem like a growth market; even with great ease of use and more powerful computers, I don't see many people paying for 5 wow subscription - what's the business plan behind those ?

This behind said I'll be happy to test new software, I have experience with Keyclone and HotKeyNet - just would need some assurance this isn't a fly by night key logging/account harvesting operation :-) (or a clone of the evil one)

Originally GameCommanderPro wasn't designed for commercial use. I designed it for personal use. It was because other people saw the product and liked it, that we are releasing it for general use. The business plan isn't to make millions of dollars, rather to make a product that is capable of supporting its own maintenance and support costs.

Not sure how I can answer the key logging thing, other than to say that GCP doesn't do it, and that we're good honest members of society.

GCP only needs write access to it's data directory, and only writes during user requested operations, so it would be fairly easy to monitor that it behaves honestly. It does attempt to open a listen port, which you can block with your firewall if you feel uncomfortouble. This port is only used when you interconnect multiple copies of GCP. We'll be releasing that feature soon, but for the moment you can leave the port blocked.

Phil

[Aarelan]

How much time does it take to switch window layouts? Reason I ask is I tend to have my main really big and the "slaves" really small basically unplayable but big enough to see that they are where they are supposed to be and facing the right way. If my main dies the time it takes to switch to the other layout can be very important.Time taken is entirely dependent on your graphics card. The actual command takes GCP milliseconds to process, and it's just up to your system to handle the command. On our primary testing machine (running vista with a Nvidia GTX260) all zoom commands are instant, however on our secondary machine (XP with Nvidia GT8500) the zoom takes a few seconds. All of the other equipment on the two machines is the same.

[rahven32]

Does the program handle processor affinity? or does it? Sorry if I'm asking to many questions lol. I would love to see a video of this in action.

[Aarelan]

Does the program handle processor affinity? or does it? Sorry if I'm asking to many questions lol. I would love to see a video of this in action.Short answer; no. We did some trials with our test machines (2 of which are quad cores, 1 of which is dual core) and found no significant difference, so decided not to include it. If there's real need, it's not a problem for us to add it (in case you're a techie, we already acquire the process handle for some features, so this shouldn't take very long).

We've actually found that most of our machines hardly hit the processor at all, it's actually the graphics cards that determines how well multiple copies of WoW run.

*edit*
Forgot to mention, we were planning to do videos today, however we seem to have had a premature launch :P. Videos will be posted soon, we plan to add tons of videos to our getting started sections, and plan to do a vlog sort of thing.

[rahven32]

When running mine if I don't set the affinity it will only use 2 cores. I've used keyclone and currently using HKN. It looks like your program is a mix of the two which I find pretty interesting. Being able to script makes it very powerful and the gui lets me visualize better. Have you guys made any video's? I'm pretty interested in seeing it work.

[Aarelan]

When running mine if I don't set the affinity it will only use 2 cores. I've used keyclone and currently using HKN. It looks like your program is a mix of the two which I find pretty interesting. Being able to script makes it very powerful and the gui lets me visualize better. Have you guys made any video's? I'm pretty interested in seeing it work.

Just been testing. I get the same thing.
Sorry - I'd missed that. Thanks for the info - I'll get that added tomorrow.

*EDIT*
It's working now, version 1.0.0.13 now up on web site

[Freddie]

I haven't seen GameCommanderPro but I just read the website. Very impressive!

If the program is as good as the documentation, this will be the best multiboxing program written to date.

Congratulations.

[KTSid]

I'm not for or against the product since I know nothing of it but as a consumer I get tired of any company bashing or even mentioning the next guy in their advertisements. Not saying this is what happened but the first post had to mention "you know who" (not an exact quote) and then the other "this is keyclone site". Just come out and rep your product. As a point of common sense I'm not going to expect McDonalds to tell me how bad their burgers are in comparison to Burger King, and like wise I don't need to know how good they are in comparison...I mean really? What would I expect you to say about your competitor? Just tell me all the reason why your product is so good. List the features or w/e but it's never any real need to mention a competitor unless asked.

So in short, why are so many (well at least those like me) skeptical of new items such as this. Because before anyone ask a specific question about another program, those who are bringing up said new item has to automatically speak about someone else’s. And yes in my eyes “this is keyclones site” counts as just that. Why because to many others have used that statement as to the reason why the site is hesitant to try others programs.

Hell now that I think about it, even the original poster wanted to talk about TWO specific products but couldn’t resist bringing up a third (banned) product that didn’t need to be brought into the discussion of the two. Then turns around and wonders why people didn’t trust him initially. *sigh*

Sorry for spelling and grammar. :whistling:

[ElectronDF]

Everyone may have their own things that concern them about boxing. I am scared it will get taken away, since it is too much fun to give up. Things that scare me in general, decisions and access.

I think Blizzard is bothered by a program or even an addon that can decide things for you. Can you have a program that looks at screen pixels and sees when a player is getting hurt and makes a macro (outside WOW) to let you heal that person when their life gets to 50%? That seems like a lot of no. You have to decide who to heal. You have to decide when to do it. You can't modify macros in combat (I think that is right) so the same keypress heals differently (not talking about smart macros, I mean actually changing macros). I am not saying anyone or anything does this. Just saying things close to it scare me. So I guess I only want macros changed in WOW, not by an addon or program. I guess I would like a stupid scripting program so you can't do too much with it (too many "ifs" or loops, or changing targets within a keypress, etc.)

I don't like addon updaters. They make you sign in and have program that can change things. Sure I sound paranoid, but what if something goes wrong and they delete your addon directory on accident. Sure they say they are sorry, but does that fix it? I know how to unzip. I know how to copy a folder to another drive and folder. I know when I want to update addons (maybe I like that it works and don't want to screw things up--settings---until the next patch). The part to me is I am not sure if I want my addon or a program to have much if any access to my computer. They might check back into their servers if they want, but they shouldn't be able to see or change anything on my computer.

Just a little from the past. I loved an addon for buffs way back in the day. You pressed a key and it cycled through people you were in a group with. Push your key 5 times and bam, all party members were buffed. It had a timer that watched the lengths of the buffs and warned you, then you just pushed your key 5 times and done. No thinking, no worries, no problems. It even let you pick which buffs for which classes or chars (for pallies). Blizzard stopped the part where you could change targets in the addon with a keypress cause they didn't like the decursive addon being able to debuff people without people even paying attention. Just press a key and cycle through party members debuffing away. We can probably get around that now, but I just don't want to piss off the people that deliberaly took something out of the game for a reason. They probably won't like people doing something they specifically tried to stop.

I am just scared that people could do too much if you give them too many tools. It is fun to play with tools, but the idiots of the world can ruin it for everyone. I hope you have a sense of trying to idiot-proof this so it doesn't draw too much attention to boxers and make something go away.

[Simulacra]

Hi - Keyclone does have mouse replication for each screen, I found it the other day by accident and it works well - each mouse pointer goes to exactly the same spot on each screen so you could easily use blizzard.
Ehh.. how? :SI stumbled across it, a bit wierd that KC didn't shout it out from the rooftops lol.I'm at work so can't explain it fully but hit setup then go to the section that deals with overrides and select a key to overide mouse something or other, once done hit that key and as if by magic your clones each have there own mouse pointer whoa! Which is great with the overrider so that it's not on all the time, I think it's in the same section as the mute.

[Steph]

This looks very interesting. I have been using Keyclone for almost two years now and am generally happy with it.
I am however armed with an authenticator and quite willing to experiment. Of primary interest to me is more flexibility and faster window swapping.

[Otlecs]

Thanks for taking the time to fill us in with the details, Aarelan.

As others have said, this is definitely not Keyclone's site. I'm not sure why he, and he alone, gets a special direct-download link to his software at the top of every page, but I imagine it's because he's paid for the privilege and that's between him and Elay (whose site this actually is :) ).

I suspect my questions will get lost in the noise and excitement, especially since I expect you're in the US and tucked up in bed as I type this, but....

Does your software "call home", and does it need its own reserved macro slots, or does it stash its own macros away somewhere else as with some macro mods?

Cheers,
Otlecs.

[Zaelar]

Just a little from the past. I loved an addon for buffs way back in the day. You pressed a key and it cycled through people you were in a group with. Push your key 5 times and bam, all party members were buffed. It had a timer that watched the lengths of the buffs and warned you, then you just pushed your key 5 times and done. No thinking, no worries, no problems. It even let you pick which buffs for which classes or chars (for pallies). Blizzard stopped the part where you could change targets in the addon with a keypress cause they didn't like the decursive addon being able to debuff people without people even paying attention. Just press a key and cycle through party members debuffing away. We can probably get around that now, but I just don't want to piss off the people that deliberaly took something out of the game for a reason. They probably won't like people doing something they specifically tried to stop.

You can still buff like that. All of the old smart targeting stuff still works, just not while in combat.

[Aarelan]

I'm not for or against the product since I know nothing of it but as a consumer I get tired of any company bashing or even mentioning the next guy in their advertisements. Then turns around and wonders why people didn’t trust him initially. *sigh*


Sorry, I'm slightly confused by what you're asking.

I don't believe I've bashed anyone. My (now corrected) assumptions about the site where a genuine error. In fact I've been made to feel very welcome by both the moderators and the members.

Not to try to make excuses, but just look at the toolbar and see if you can spot why I thought what I did.

Sorry if I offended you.

Phil

[moosejaw]

I'm not for or against the product since I know nothing of it but as a consumer I get tired of any company bashing or even mentioning the next guy in their advertisements. Then turns around and wonders why people didn’t trust him initially. *sigh*


Sorry, I'm slightly confused by what you're asking.

I don't believe I've bashed anyone. My (now corrected) assumptions about the site where a genuine error. In fact I've been made to feel very welcome by both the moderators and the members.

Not to try to make excuses, but just look at the toolbar and see if you can spot why I thought what I did.

Sorry if I offended you.

Phil
/sigh

Phil never made any comparisions to any other software. Go look at the website. They don't do side by sides of any software there either. The user can do the comparision themselves.

Every new product will get scrutinized and some folks will jump to conclusions. Keyclone had it rough and IS had it really rough when Lax broke in here. I have used Keyclone and IS for boxing and they both work well. I look forward to testing out the new software on the block.

[Aarelan]

Everyone may have their own things that concern them about boxing. I am scared it will get taken away, since it is too much fun to give up. Things that scare me in general, decisions and access.


GCP does not decide anything for you.

I'd like to confirm that we don't use any run-time information from WOW. The only things that can affect the decisions are things that the user tells GCP, through keyboard and mouse. GCP is not using any "forbidden" information. GCP also does not add functionality, only makes it easier to access the functionality which is already there. We have been very careful to make sure that GCP does nothing illegal.

The functions we use in the addon (targeting, casting) etc are simply using features that Blizzard have supplied as part of their secure execution environment. They did this to ensure that those functions are only initiated by a key press. We do not change macros in combat, but it is perfectly legal to change targets in combat. We use a Blizzard provided feature for that. If Blizzard did not want people to do that, surely they wouldn't provide the function. I accept that using "illegal" stuff is bad, but I would argue that there is no issue with using everything that is provided.

GCP only issues 1 key per character for each user input key. We are not breaking or bypassing any Blizzard mechanisms, or Blizzards intentions in making the mechanisms that way. Our scripting functionality is quite restricted by the limitations imposed by Blizzard, but thats the rules of the game and we have no problem with it.

I accept that we write 1 addon to the addon directory. There are no directory or file deletion instructions in our code - anywhere in our code. We only ever overwrite things. We do this because the addon is the "receiving" part of our macro upload. It's not essential to GCP, but it does provide access to parts of Blizzards UI that provide some handy features. If this is seen as a problem, we could provide a version of the program that requires manual update, for those who prefer it.

The reason Blizzard banned the mods you are talking about is because they auto selected targets. We don't do that.

I fail to see why giving people access to multi boxing as a problem. I disagree with the assumption that because people are not "tech heads" that they are idiots. I would like to see more people multi box. I completely disagree with the fact that we should keep multi boxing restricted. I think the more people that multi box, the better it is for all of us. If we could become remove our "trivial numbers" label (a Blizzard quote, or at least paraphrase) then maybe game companies would do more for us.

I will re-iterate. GCP does nothing illegal. It provides no "extra" functionality. It simply makes the full functionality provided by Blizzard more accessible.

Phil

[Aarelan]

Thanks for taking the time to fill us in with the details, Aarelan.

As others have said, this is definitely not Keyclone's site. I'm not sure why he, and he alone, gets a special direct-download link to his software at the top of every page, but I imagine it's because he's paid for the privilege and that's between him and Elay (whose site this actually is :) ).

I suspect my questions will get lost in the noise and excitement, especially since I expect you're in the US and tucked up in bed as I type this, but....

Does your software "call home", and does it need its own reserved macro slots, or does it stash its own macros away somewhere else as with some macro mods?

Cheers,
Otlecs.

No problem - I'm happy to answer questions.

Our software does not "call home". The mechanism we use for key generation does, but only to check that the key is valid. We actually had someone from Texas trying random keycodes last night, and this mechanism is just a way of preventing such actions from being successful. (and auditing them)

Our addon creates it's own independent data space, and GCP uploads to this addon. This gives us several advantages including:

All changes that we make are contained, and can be rolled back by disabling the addon (GameCommandPro)
When macros are uploaded, this traffic does not hit the Blizzard server, but only our mod.
We can compress the upload in GCP and have the mod unpack it.
We can use incremental updates when macros are changed.

[rahven32]

Does GCP create a WTF folder just for it or does it use the wtf already used by wow? I'm wondering how you handle switching layouts and aspect's of the UI in general. From the way it sounds it creates it's own but just want to be clear on that. I also noticed alot of default keybinds etc I'm guessing (dont want to assume lol) that they all can be made whatever you want correct?

[Otlecs]

The mechanism we use for key generation does [call home], but only to check that the key is valid.
Do you do this only at the time of purchase, or every time the software is fired up?

I'm quite keen to move to software that doesn't rely on external servers.

[blast3r]

Multiboxers are smarter than your average doofus. Please don't try and insult our intelligence. Thanksthanks a lot for that :(

I understand though, and that is why this will be the last thing i post on this subject for a while. I had an answer from the author, and i urged him to make an account here himself, since i am seen as just a spam-troll. I WILL keep reading up on all the info here, since it's a great resource.

Thank you for all the genuine replies in the meantime, see you in 2-3 weeks when i get started myself.

Maybe I am just too cautions. We often see people come in here who think they are fooling everyone and trying to push their products on the group here. So if I was wrong I apologize. I was having an extra suspicious day I suppose.

[Aarelan]

The mechanism we use for key generation does [call home], but only to check that the key is valid.
Do you do this only at the time of purchase, or every time the software is fired up?

I'm quite keen to move to software that doesn't rely on external servers.

You mean like Wow :P

The software is fairly intelligent. I'm not sure of the exact logic, I assume thats a dark secret of the people that provide us with the service, but here's our observations:

For the first few times you run the software, it will require a connection. The more often it correctly validates, the more lenient in becomes in that respect
The system has logic built into it to detect certain types of activity (such as disconnecting before starting and then re-establishing the connection once it's running) and gets upset at such behavior.
It can tell the difference between being disconnected from the internet, and being connected but it's "home" site being down, and will change its behavior accordingly.


We spent some time looking into various options, and decided that this was the least invasive, most reliable, and is not machine locked (which has always irritated me in the past)

Of course we all wish that such measures where not required, but my wife even found a site where someone was requesting a cracked version of [that which cannot be mentioned] last night - I'd really not realized that "cracking" was being offered as a service! - to the credit of the site, the moderator stamped on that user, but it saddens me that this sort of thing goes on.

Phil

[Otlecs]

Thanks for the reply. I'll stick with KC until something else comes along then.

I understand the rationalisation (which I believe to be a double-edged sword, but that's a different argument), but I thoroughly resent having my ability to muiltibox dictated by the availabililty of anything other than the servers running the actual game.

Good luck with the product though :thumbup:

[Catamer]

GameCommanderPro?
this is obviously an advert, I've never herd of it and I've tried almost everything talked about here ( hardware, most of the freewares, innerspace and keyclone ).

innerspace was very good but I'm stuck with keyclone, it has the features I want at a reasonable price, I-S wanted too much $ in my opinion.

[moosejaw]

GameCommanderPro?
this is obviously an advert, I've never herd of it and I've tried almost everything talked about here ( hardware, most of the freewares, innerspace and keyclone ).

innerspace was very good but I'm stuck with keyclone, it has the features I want at a reasonable price, I-S wanted too much $ in my opinion.You need to read the whole thread.

[Aarelan]

Thanks for the reply. I'll stick with KC until something else comes along then.

I understand the rationalisation (which I believe to be a double-edged sword, but that's a different argument), but I thoroughly resent having my ability to muiltibox dictated by the availabililty of anything other than the servers running the actual game.

Good luck with the product though :thumbup:

One of the things that we're looking for is feedback on the good/bad aspects of our product (and yes we do accept that there will be things we need to improve on). If the method of licensing is seen as an issue then we actually have a number of options. We chose the method we did based on our experience of trying other products.

We could offer a "one time connect" activation, but it would be machine specific (so if you moved computer, you would need a new key). It's slightly more difficult to use, in that there are more steps in the process, some of which are manual (hence it would take longer to get a key).

I'd like to ask you and (any other members of the forum) for feedback on this.

If people are telling me that they would buy the product but for it's type of security mechanism, then I'd be foolish not to take notice

Phil

[Steph]

Hmm? I think I don't really get your point Otlecs! Keyclone authenticates with Keyclone's server at least once on startup. I never had it fail and understand that his server is down less than Blizzards. From what Aarelan said, GCP does phone home, but has fault tolerance built-in, so that you would be able to play even if GCP's authentication server can not be reached. So the amount of servers that need to be up so we can play doesn't go up.

I guess the only other phone home concern is account theft. An executeable that is permitted to phone home would be of course ideal for that, and I wouldn't be surprised at all to hear that any 'cracked' boxing software version does just that compliments of the helpful cracker. Genuine ftw. As far as trying a software directly from the manufactuer, it is a question of trust towards the manufacturer. Anyone connected to the account theft/gold farming business like a certain cretin who's banned here at DB.com is clearly disqualified in my book.

To me, GCP looks both legit and interesting. As I said above, I'd be happy to try it.

[Aarelan]

GameCommanderPro?
this is obviously an advert, I've never herd of it and I've tried almost everything talked about here ( hardware, most of the freewares, innerspace and keyclone ).

innerspace was very good but I'm stuck with keyclone, it has the features I want at a reasonable price, I-S wanted too much $ in my opinion.

To set the record straight at this point in the thread.

I am part of the GCP team. You can assume therefore that I am biased towards the product I represent.

I would however point out that we have strong ethics. For this reason I have been honest, from my first post, about who I am, and what I represent. I have also answered any questions raised here honestly, and to the best of my ability.

To my knowledge, nothing on this site is a advertisement, in fact all my posts, other than my initial introduction (which I don't think was particularly pushy) are replies.

The reason you haven't heard of GCP is that it's new.

I respect the fact that you have a choice, and all I would ask is that you take a look, and then let us know what you think.

Thanks in advance for taking the time

Phil

p.s. The starter of this thread is not associated with our product, but I've had a few PMs with him since his first post, and he's a nice guy. I'm sorry that mentioning our product has made him a target.

[Otlecs]

I applaud your open-mindedness (made up word?!) on this.

I would certainly be prepared to allow a one-time connection to establish a license, even if that then meant that it was locked into that machine.

But you would need some form of license transfer mechanism as well - either manual or automated.

One of the issues I've seen come up with other products is that if the customer changes what they consider to be a fairly innocuous aspect of their configuration, the sysid (or whatever mechanism is used to identify the machine) gets regenerated and the software just stops working.

I for one would buy the product to give it a good try if I could totally firewall it and have it still work on a single machine.

With the removal of that dependency, I might even be tempted to use more than the maximiser and key broadcasting features to which I have thusfar restricted myself ;)

[JamieW]

One quick note I'd like to add:

Looking at the website, it seems to be pretty game-generic, however with the GCP add-on for WOW, and the examples given for WOW, it lends me to believe that its only really been tested thoroughly for use with WOW.

I multi-box LOTRO, I used to multi-box DAOC... there are smaller communities of multi-boxers for these non-WOW games and more (EQ1, EQ2, etc.). They don't tend to allow the same kind of add-on/mod support that WOW does, so before getting involved in any product, it's nice to know what will be and won't be available features, and whether it even works with the product. A listing on your website, or a 7-day trial would be a very nice thing to have for people to make sure that it works on THEIR hardware configuration with THEIR prefered MMO.

[Aarelan]

I applaud your open-mindedness (made up word?!) on this.

I would certainly be prepared to allow a one-time connection to establish a license, even if that then meant that it was locked into that machine.

But you would need some form of license transfer mechanism as well - either manual or automated.

One of the issues I've seen come up with other products is that if the customer changes what they consider to be a fairly innocuous aspect of their configuration, the sysid (or whatever mechanism is used to identify the machine) gets regenerated and the software just stops working.

I for one would buy the product to give it a good try if I could totally firewall it and have it still work on a single machine.

With the removal of that dependency, I might even be tempted to use more than the maximiser and key broadcasting features to which I have thusfar restricted myself ;)

The fact that our current solution is insensitive to machine configuration changes, and is a user registration rather than a machine registration, was one of the major factors in our decision to go the way we did. We also liked the slick registration process, and that the system would still work if the security server was down.

I think that, even with what we have now, you could firewall the program to satisfy your security requirements. I would suggest this:

The installation requires no connection, and can be fire walled till it squeeks.
The security module and key interceptor module run as two separate processes, and can be identified as such by the fire wall.
The security module is provided by a 3rd party, and does not connect to our site. (I can supply the details if required, so you can check them out)
The key interceptor module (which is the bit that could grab sensitive information) can be blocked. It does attempt to listen on a port, but that's for running linked copies of GCP, and for a single copy, is not required. The security module has no access to the intercepted key data (which, as a matter of interest, is not stored - only the last key is held in memory, so even if something did scan our process memory, it couldn't see a password)

This, should, I think answer your concerns about us stealing your keys. As for your disquiet about being dependent on another service, I'd like it if you'd give it a chance, before deciding it's a bad thing. As I said, I really don't having to use security mechanisms at all, but given the need, I really do think this is the best (or at maybe least bad).

If people do report problems with the security module, we could change it within hours.

Phil

[KTSid]

I'm not for or against the product since I know nothing of it but as a consumer I get tired of any company bashing or even mentioning the next guy in their advertisements. Then turns around and wonders why people didn’t trust him initially. *sigh*


Sorry, I'm slightly confused by what you're asking.

I don't believe I've bashed anyone.

Phil

Umm yea you missed that quote. Those two sentence don't go togather and I was obviously speaking about more than one person in that post. Which either way you missed the point of the post. But no worries....Moving on!

[Aarelan]

One quick note I'd like to add:

Looking at the website, it seems to be pretty game-generic, however with the GCP add-on for WOW, and the examples given for WOW, it lends me to believe that its only really been tested thoroughly for use with WOW.

I multi-box LOTRO, I used to multi-box DAOC... there are smaller communities of multi-boxers for these non-WOW games and more (EQ1, EQ2, etc.). They don't tend to allow the same kind of add-on/mod support that WOW does, so before getting involved in any product, it's nice to know what will be and won't be available features, and whether it even works with the product. A listing on your website, or a 7-day trial would be a very nice thing to have for people to make sure that it works on THEIR hardware configuration with THEIR prefered MMO.

Wow has been the game that we've done most of our testing on. The entire interface to the game is via the game definition file. Clearly the in game displays would not be available, but most of the other functionality would be. We're actually looking for people to work with from other games, as we're all WoW players.

** WARNING - The following is not for the faint hearted **, but geeks may carry on ...
This is not intended to be easily understood, but should illustrate how flexible GCP is.
Please note this lot is a one time game configuration thing. Normal users never need to be involved

For anyone who's interested, this is an excerpt from our game definition file:

; Format of each line is <Prefix>|<Content>|<Suffix>|<Test>|<TESTONLY>
; Prefix - Included before content
; Suffix - Included after content
; Content - Can be O=Options,T=Target,S=Source
; Test - How to decide whether to include this element. Can be EXISTS, LIST, NOTLIST
; LIST tests options to see if there are more than one (separated by comma)
; TESTONLY - if this is included, will test the content, but not add it (include literals conditionaly)

Command=CAST
<<|S|>>;|Exists
Macro /cast |O||NOTLIST|TESTONLY
MultiSpell |O||LIST|TESTONLY
[target=|T|] |Exists
|O|;|


This provides the input definition a command (i.e. what you type). It's a little cryptic but not too bad once you get the hang of it.
The general syntax for a game command is:
[Command] [Options] On [Target] From [Source]

The above says:
If [command] is cast
if source is specified, prefix it with "<<" and postfix it with ">>;" - the semi colon is a line break in the output.
the next line is included only if [options] is not a list (comma separated), and generates the text "Macro /Cast" - test only says test the options, but don't output them
the next line generates a multi option version (e.g. cast x,y,z) would trigger this.
the next line includes the [target] if specified, prefixed by "[target=" and postfixed by "] "
the next line includes the options, suffixed by ";"

So an input of Cast X On Y From Z would generate the code:
<<Z>>
Macro /cast [target=y] X


An excerpt from the output section (what GCP sends to the game):

Command=Macro
InternalText=Hit %InternalKey%
GameText=@macro %Externalkey%,%CommandText%@

When GCP encounters the macro command (as used in the above) it will generate 2 code elements. One will be run locally (within GCP) and the other is the stuff which is sent to the game. InternalKey and ExternalKey are generated by the program, and commandtext is the text generated by the input rule.
Gametext is sent to the game when we upload, and is a command as the GCP addon expects to see it, and instructs it to create a macro and bind a key.
The internaltext is executed within GCP and, in this case, hits a key.

If this makes sense to anyone, and you are interested in helping is move GCP to other games, then let us know.

[Otlecs]

I'm definitely intrigued.


As for your disquiet about being dependent on another service, I'd like it if you'd give it a chance, before deciding it's a bad thing
I've been using KC for years. I must have been one of the earliest customers, in fact. I have... erm... six? licenses, and have never, not once, had a problem connecting to his server.

So I'm not denouncing it as a Bad Thing because I've had any bad experience here.

I'm more concerned about the "what if"s. What if KC just gets bored and turns it off? What if (God forbid) something should happen to him? What if I want to box and the server really does have a technical failure that's not fixed in the time I want to box? I am the personification of "time poor" and not being able to do what I want to do, when I want to do it, would be very frustrating.

I really do want a piece of software that I just buy, install, and it works. And keeps working.

I want to be able to choose to take updates because they address a specific issue I'm having, or because they add a feature I just can't do without. Again, I'll say that I've never been forced to update KC, but the idea of a mandatory upgrade has been mooted just lately.

So, although I am indeed appropriately paranoid about security on my systems, it's really all about making sure that things will always work, come hell or high water.

My accounts are all authenticator protected, so I'm not overly concerned about those details being stolen although obviously I'd be a bit more concerned about other information, not protected by an authenticator type device, being potentially being up for grabs :)


We also liked the slick registration process, and that the system would still work if the security server was down
I note that you mentioned that it will become "more lenient" once it's been able to connect a number of times, but do you know for how long it will continue to work if it detects an internet connection but is unable to phone home?

Thanks again.

[KTSid]

/sigh

Phil never made any comparisions to any other software. Go look at the website. They don't do side by sides of any software there either. The user can do the comparision themselves.

Every new product will get scrutinized and some folks will jump to conclusions. Keyclone had it rough and IS had it really rough when Lax broke in here. I have used Keyclone and IS for boxing and they both work well. I look forward to testing out the new software on the block.

You need to take a deep breath and then re-read my post. Not that it matters that you missed what I was saying and my point. :whistling:

[Svpernova09]

Welcome to the software section.

[Svpernova09]

The fact that our current solution is insensitive to machine configuration changes, and is a user registration rather than a machine registration, was one of the major factors in our decision to go the way we did. We also liked the slick registration process, and that the system would still work if the security server was down.

I think that, even with what we have now, you could firewall the program to satisfy your security requirements. I would suggest this:

The installation requires no connection, and can be fire walled till it squeeks.
The security module and key interceptor module run as two separate processes, and can be identified as such by the fire wall.
The security module is provided by a 3rd party, and does not connect to our site. (I can supply the details if required, so you can check them out)
The key interceptor module (which is the bit that could grab sensitive information) can be blocked. It does attempt to listen on a port, but that's for running linked copies of GCP, and for a single copy, is not required. The security module has no access to the intercepted key data (which, as a matter of interest, is not stored - only the last key is held in memory, so even if something did scan our process memory, it couldn't see a password)

This, should, I think answer your concerns about us stealing your keys. As for your disquiet about being dependent on another service, I'd like it if you'd give it a chance, before deciding it's a bad thing. As I said, I really don't having to use security mechanisms at all, but given the need, I really do think this is the best (or at maybe least bad).

If people do report problems with the security module, we could change it within hours.

Phil
When I skimmed over your site yesterday, I thought I saw of networking mentioned, but that it wasn't implemented yet, is this not the case or did I misread something? I box across 4 computers and any solution that isn't networkable, is kinda out of the question of me. Just curious.

[Aarelan]

GCP does have built in networking. There are 2 things we need to do before releasing it.

1) Do a final test and decide whether it's ready for release, and if not, why not - That's on todays plan, so watch this space.
2) Re-package a GCP-Lite which is a receive only version, and doesn't require a licence.

One interesting aspect of GCP's current networking is that it is peer to peer. The practical upshot is, that with some thought, 2 people can be in control. Given that, and some extra sub-groups (such as DPS2, Heals2 etc) you can hand control of bunches of characters from one person to another, in mid battle, at the press of a button.

At the moment, you need to be in the same room to see each others monitor, but watch this space...

Any combination of controllers / clients can be used like this 25 man raids with 3 people anyone?

Phil

[Svpernova09]

GCP does have built in networking. There are 2 things we need to do before releasing it.

1) Do a final test and decide whether it's ready for release, and if not, why not - That's on todays plan, so watch this space.
2) Re-package a GCP-Lite which is a receive only version, and doesn't require a licence.

One interesting aspect of GCP's current networking is that it is peer to peer. The practical upshot is, that with some thought, 2 people can be in control. Given that, and some extra sub-groups (such as DPS2, Heals2 etc) you can hand control of bunches of characters from one person to another, in mid battle, at the press of a button.

At the moment, you need to be in the same room to see each others monitor, but watch this space...

Any combination of controllers / clients can be used like this 25 man raids with 3 people anyone?

PhilNice, I'd be interested in test driving network capability once you've got it ready.

[Aarelan]

I'm definitely intrigued.


We also liked the slick registration process, and that the system would still work if the security server was down
I note that you mentioned that it will become "more lenient" once it's been able to connect a number of times, but do you know for how long it will continue to work if it detects an internet connection but is unable to phone home?

Thanks again.

That's a feature that we haven't been able to test. The supplier says that it will always work in those circumstances, however it's a difficult thing to simulate, and the server has, to our knowledge, not been down since we started using it.

Phil

[Otlecs]

however it's a difficult thing to simulate,
Could you not just make entries in the host file, or firewall the process?

[Aarelan]

however it's a difficult thing to simulate,
Could you not just make entries in the host file, or firewall the process?

According to the manufacturer, it doesn't react kindly to that sort of thing, but it would be an interesting test. Maybe as we're waiting for the servers to appear...

Phil

[dimzen]

I stumbled across it, a bit wierd that KC didn't shout it out from the rooftops lol.I'm at work so can't explain it fully but hit setup then go to the section that deals with overrides and select a key to overide mouse something or other, once done hit that key and as if by magic your clones each have there own mouse pointer whoa! Which is great with the overrider so that it's not on all the time, I think it's in the same section as the mute.Hmm.. can't find it. Could you look after it, the next time you have KeyClone open? :D

Edit: Nvm.. found it :)

[Otlecs]

Hmm.. can't find it. Could you look after it, the next time you have KeyClone open?
I've not used it myself, but a quiick search found this (http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&postID=115862):


keyclone will push your mouse clicks around to the other screens. you just have to set the hotkey. (i use this constantly for quest accepts/turn-ins and setting up macros.

you toggle it on... click.. watch it click on all the screens... repeat until done... then toggle it off.

to set the hotkey for the toggle, go to keyclone/setup/general/mouse-click-passing-hotkey

Hope that helps.

[Aarelan]

Does GCP create a WTF folder just for it or does it use the wtf already used by wow? I'm wondering how you handle switching layouts and aspect's of the UI in general. From the way it sounds it creates it's own but just want to be clear on that. I also noticed alot of default keybinds etc I'm guessing (dont want to assume lol) that they all can be made whatever you want correct?Sorry, missed this question in all the posts.

GCP uses its own wtf file, which is stored by character. All the macros and bindings used by GCP are kept in its own separate memory space. The keyboard bindings can easily be changed (we have a keyboard display which makes it very easy).

Phil

[Ualaa]

Do you support multiple monitors for your "Maximizer/Picture in Picture" feature?

Can I run two monitors, on one computer with something like this set up:

Monitor 1:

111111
111111
111111
111111

Monitor 2:

222333
222333
444555
444555

Have the active region on monitor 1, and the other toons of my team on monitor 2. Then when I hit my switch key, have the now active stuff on monitor 1, and the previously active stuff switch that that position on monitor 2?

[Caspian]

Hi and welcome to the community. Thanks for taking the time to answer all of the questions.

Since your product contains a WoW add-on that uses parts of "Blizzards UI that provide some handy features". If you are not aware of Blizzard's Add-on developer policy you might want to review it. I am not a lawyer - nor did I sleep at a Holiday Inn express last night - but, selling your add-on as part of GCP may run afoul of it. I'm not sure how the rules work on it exactly but you may be able to provide the add-on for free and charge for the external program part of your product. I will leave it to you to find the loop holes.

My second concern is that you push updates to the addon portion. Whether it happens automatically or manually, I am not sure it falls within "legal" bounds, especially if the game is running and the player is in combat.

Have you made any efforts to be vetted by Blizzard? I know they are VERY heistant to say anything is ok and fall back to the mantra of 1 keypress 1 action per account. With all of your fancy hocus pocus and macro creation going on it seems like it might be hard for the user to know for sure if that rule is really being adhered to. I am also concerened with Warden. I don't know how it works but, if it sees a process writing to WoW directories it might be less then pleased.

[zanthor]

Hi and welcome to the community. Thanks for taking the time to answer all of the questions.

Since your product contains a WoW add-on that uses parts of "Blizzards UI that provide some handy features". If you are not aware of Blizzard's Add-on developer policy you might want to review it. I am not a lawyer - nor did I sleep at a Holiday Inn express last night - but, selling your add-on as part of GCP may run afoul of it. I'm not sure how the rules work on it exactly but you may be able to provide the add-on for free and charge for the external program part of your product. I will leave it to you to find the loop holes.
Easy enough, release the addon base separately for free. Doesn't do anyone any good without the tool to configure it.

My second concern is that you push updates to the addon portion. Whether it happens automatically or manually, I am not sure it falls within "legal" bounds, especially if the game is running and the player is in combat. By push I would assume that he means "write a text file to your addons folder, or update a saved variable in a wtf file" which means wow only reads it at reloadui or startup. Anything other than this and it would be a VERY bad thing.
Have you made any efforts to be vetted by Blizzard? I know they are VERY heistant to say anything is ok and fall back to the mantra of 1 keypress 1 action per account. With all of your fancy hocus pocus and macro creation going on it seems like it might be hard for the user to know for sure if that rule is really being adhered to. I am also concerened with Warden. I don't know how it works but, if it sees a process writing to WoW directories it might be less then pleased. Blizzard won't vette anything - seriously people need to give up on that concept. Someone is going to pull the "Well they said KeyClone is fine by name..." and I'm going to point out that was over a year ago and no other product has ever been mentioned by name again, AND blizzard hasn't thumbs upped a single added feature to KeyClone or reconfirmed it's status.

We have a general set of rules to live by, we do that or we get banned. Works better in Blizzards favor if they can ban for ANYTHING.

[zanthor]

wtf, double post one pure source?

[Aarelan]

We don't charge for the mod, we provide it for free. It's open source. (not encrypted in any way). It doesn't ask for payment in game. (that satisfies the terms of blizzards latest statement on mods). Blizzard don't, and can't, tell us how to publish it, but I'd be happy to put it up on the site anyway. There are some useful bits that others my want to use, and we have no issue with that. Anyone should feel free to distribute it as they see fit.

There is some private data (actually not that private, I've already provided information on it's format in an earlier post), and it's written to the gamecommander.lua file in the wtf folder which is easy to read. As a general rule, even if it where possible, I wouldn't advise changing configuration mid fight!

As said before, Blizzard don't endorse anyone. They do issue rules, and we stick to them. If at any point, Blizzard where to raise any issue with what we are doing, we would, of course, immediately change it.

Phil

[Aarelan]

Do you support multiple monitors for your "Maximizer/Picture in Picture" feature?

Can I run two monitors, on one computer with something like this set up:
Have the active region on monitor 1, and the other toons of my team on monitor 2. Then when I hit my switch key, have the now active stuff on monitor 1, and the previously active stuff switch that that position on monitor 2?

Thats pretty much how my setup is.

GCP handles multiple layouts.

You set up the windows (position and size) for all your characters. You then save this (optionally giving it a name). Each layout can have a zoom position associated with it. You do this by moving your main window to where you want the zoom position to be, and saving this zoom position. This can be done several times, to produce a layout for each circumstance.

Once you've done this, a layout can be activated instantly. GCP is clever enough to only move windows which have changed when you change layouts.

This method needs more work to set up, but is much more flexible. If I lose my main, I switch to my "plan B" layout, which actually minimizes window 1 (he's dead!), brings my hunter (window 2) to occupy the left screen, moves my healer (window 4) to occupy must of my 2nd screen (if my tank dies, I think my healer has become more important), and puts my DPS (wiindow 3 and 5) as 2 very small windows at the bottom. (I can pretty much control them without seeing anything anyway). In the same command, I can change my DPS target to track my hunter.

My "Oh Dear The Tank Died" macro is complicated but goes something like this:

Set Group, 3
Translate Group,`,+`,^`,%`,^+`,%+`,%^`,%^+`
<<All>>
Hit %GroupX%

Msg Select No Of Healers
Get Heals, No
Msg
GroupSet Darelan,DPS
if %Heals% >= 1
GroupSet Darelan,Heals
endif

UseLayout %$LeaderChan%
set LdrToon,%$LeaderChan%

Translate LdrToon,`,+`,^`,%`,^+`,%+`,%^`,%^+`
<<All>>
Hit %ToonX%
endif

The first block sends a special key to tell the GCP addon that we're changing the target for the dps group.
The 2nd group moves my healer from the dps goup.
The 3nd block selects a particular screen layout and select which toon will be tracked by the DPS target group.
The 4th block sends a special key to tell the GCP addon which toon to track for the group.

The group tracking thing means that the DPS group will now target anything that the selected leader targets.

The effect of this is I press one key and press a number to set my healers count. My screen is then re-arranged, I have a new leader, and my DPS targeting is now controlled by my new leader.

Phil

[aboron]

however it's a difficult thing to simulate,
Could you not just make entries in the host file, or firewall the process?

According to the manufacturer, it doesn't react kindly to that sort of thing, but it would be an interesting test. Maybe as we're waiting for the servers to appear...

Phil

If you use another machine as a firewall you could write a rule to drop traffic to the auth host(s) without polluting the local hosts file or blocking anything else.

[Aarelan]

however it's a difficult thing to simulate,
Could you not just make entries in the host file, or firewall the process?

According to the manufacturer, it doesn't react kindly to that sort of thing, but it would be an interesting test. Maybe as we're waiting for the servers to appear...

Phil

If you use another machine as a firewall you could write a rule to drop traffic to the auth host(s) without polluting the local hosts file or blocking anything else.

I should have thought of that - especially as we have that configuration anyway.

Thanks

[Tesseract]

No way I'm going to use hotkeynet, first thing the site did was open a page advertising gold selling and Russian brides!! Now I'm scared I've got some kind of malware my A/V's can't get rid of on my comp. AARRGGHH! :cursing:

(Leaving this up so the next few posts make sense, but it is no longer true; the link on the HKN site went to an address that had a new owner, and Freddie didn't know it had changed. Freddie took it down immediately)

[zanthor]

No way I'm going to use hotkeynet, first thing the site did was open a page advertising gold selling and Russian brides!! Now I'm scared I've got some kind of malware my A/V's can't get rid of on my comp. AARRGGHH! :cursing:Considering that their site has no advertisements on my IE browser I'd say you probably need to look into that virus option.

[Otlecs]

No way I'm going to use hotkeynet, first thing the site did was open a page advertising gold selling and Russian brides!! Now I'm scared I've got some kind of malware my A/V's can't get rid of on my comp. AARRGGHH! :cursing:Considering that their site has no advertisements on my IE browser I'd say you probably need to look into that virus option.
Seconded!

http://hotkeynet.com/ is completely ad-free.

[Aarelan]

No way I'm going to use hotkeynet, first thing the site did was open a page advertising gold selling and Russian brides!! Now I'm scared I've got some kind of malware my A/V's can't get rid of on my comp. AARRGGHH! :cursing:Considering that their site has no advertisements on my IE browser I'd say you probably need to look into that virus option.

I use chrome (yea I'm the one!)- I see no adds

[alcattle]

No way I'm going to use hotkeynet, first thing the site did was open a page advertising gold selling and Russian brides!! Now I'm scared I've got some kind of malware my A/V's can't get rid of on my comp. AARRGGHH! :cursing:There are no ads on HKN.com. One of the cleanest site in boxing. So don't post crap about other sites until you have proof. And the topic was GCP vs KC.

[Tesseract]

No way I'm going to use hotkeynet, first thing the site did was open a page advertising gold selling and Russian brides!! Now I'm scared I've got some kind of malware my A/V's can't get rid of on my comp. AARRGGHH! :cursing:There are no ads on HKN.com. One of the cleanest site in boxing. So don't post crap about other sites until you have proof. And the topic was GCP vs KC.

alcattle, just click on the video link that says 'HotkeyNet and WoW' to the right on the front page; you will see what I'm talking about.

I just tried it again, twice, I get the same site, 2 different computers. Apparently they've removed the reference to 'Russian Brides' but the gold-selling links are still there.

You don't know me, so I can understand your reaction, but I don't say things just to hear myself talk. Rather than assume someone is full of it though, I suggest you take a little time to investigate. You could have found the link in 60 seconds if you'd tried.

;)

[alcattle]

Now I see what you are saying and you are right about ads, but that video is hosted on a different site, so I am right in saying HKN.com has no ads.

[keyclone]

Now I see what you are saying and you are right about ads, but that video is hosted on a different site, so I am right in saying HKN.com has no ads.:huh:

your statement of "has no ads" would be incorrect... clicking will take you to wowfriends.net, which is a portal page (one of the items it sells is wow gold). whether or not it is hosted on hotkeynet.com or elsewhere does not matter

[Diablostar]

The tool looks very promising! But there are still some questions from my side:

1.) Is the network/remote feature already up and running? I'm runnning my 5 toons on 2 machiones, means that my main is on Comp1 and my 4 toons on Comp2. So is GCP able to transport my keypresses to Comp2 via the network? Is it done with a client tool?

2.) Is it possible to customize the window layout on Comp2 like with ISBOXER?

3.) Would I run into triuble if IS (ISBOXER) and GCP would run at the same time?

Thx

[Freddie]

Now I see what you are saying and you are right about ads, but that video is hosted on a different site, so I am right in saying HKN.com has no ads.:huh:

your statement of "has no ads" would be incorrect... clicking will take you to wowfriends.net, which is a portal page (one of the items it sells is wow gold). whether or not it is hosted on hotkeynet.com or elsewhere does not matter
I didn't realize that was happening until right now. At the time I put that link on HotkeyNet's home page, WoWfriends.net was a fan website published by a WoW player. It had no ads for gold sellers. I just realized right now that the guy has shut down his website and his domain name is now pointing to pages published by one of those companies that buy recently-expired domain names and use them to display paid links. (However the domain name hasn't expired. Maybe his former host company or DNS company is doing it.)

I just removed both links to WoWfriends that used to be on HotkeyNet's site.

My policy is to keep HotkeyNet's website free of such things, so if anybody finds another link of this sort on the site, all you need to do is tell me and I'll remove it.

[Freddie]

No way I'm going to use hotkeynet, first thing the site did was open a page advertising gold selling and Russian brides!! Now I'm scared I've got some kind of malware my A/V's can't get rid of on my comp. AARRGGHH! :cursing:
I assume you mean you clicked on the "video" link, and the link led to that page. I apologize for that. As I just explained, at the time I posted that link, it led to a legitimate video on a legitimate website. Unfortunately the website has shut down and the link has been re-directed to a page of sleazy-looking links.

I just investigated a little further, and it turns out that the sleazy-looking links are results from a search company called information.com. What's happening is, the guy's website shut down, so his former host company or DNS company is using the domain name as a query and displaying the results that the query generates from Information.com.

I don't think you need to worry about this. The page was annoying, and I'm sorry my site linked to it, and I've removed the link. But I don't think the page was dangerous.

[Tesseract]

FREDDIE! Awesome! Didn't think about the link being to an address bought out by someone else. Thanks for taking it down.

;)