Thoughts on leveling via quests

[Tonuss]

I'm making this separate of the "Quest boosting" thread, as it's a different topic.

When I started my current team (resto shaman + four hunters) I decided to level them via quests. No exp grind, no instance running, just quests. As with anything I do related to WoW, I left myself the option to change this at any time (ie, run an instance if I felt like it). But so far, up to level 69, I've done it entirely via outdoors quests. Some thoughts on the experience so far, which might help answer questions for anyone considering it:

1- Exp-per-kill is awful for a 5-man group. Elites are not so bad (and they die pretty fast, too) but normal mobs give painfully low exp, rested or otherwise. At some levels I was looking at something like 1,600 kills if I had wanted to grind the level out. Just mentioning that makes me want to cut myself.

2- Even with the exp changes, you'll run into some 'dry periods.' Particularly at early levels, where Blizzard probably figures that you'll be soloing and thus the exp from mobs makes up a decent portion of your overall exp. I ran my team all over the place from levels 10-25 or thereabouts, and most of the time my quest log was full of quests that were 1-4 levels above the group. Around level 30 there were enough quests to keep the level range much closer to the group.

3- You'll have a lot more 'dry periods' if you skip all of the collection quests. The good news is that Blizzard has improved many collection quests, mostly by raising the drop rate significantly (I recall at least one quest where the drop rate was raised to 100%). The bad news is that collection quests still suck, some way more than others. The worse news is that finding out which ones have been improved requires you to try them out.

4- The worst dry periods were at 57 and 67, both times I was just a level short of moving on to a new expansion zone and both times the only thing I had left were collection quests. At 57 I gritted my teeth and did the quest to collect carrion grub meat in EPL (thankfully, both the drop rate of the item and the spawn rate of the mobs had been improved significantly). At 67 I gritted my teeth even harder and did the quest line to collect wolf pelts in Terrokar Forest (sadly, the drop rate was NOT improved, but I was able to kill enough spiders to make seven 18-slot bags). If I had it to do over again I'd have gone into an instanced zone and cleared trash instead. :p

5- All in all, leveling speed was very good. Quest reward experience is so huge now that it doesn't really matter that group experience from kills is so tiny. The best thing to do is go to a quest hub and grab every quest you see, then get to questing. As you complete the quests you'll know which ones to drop (ie, if you have completed four quests, and still need to collect 12 drops per character on the fifth quest... drop the fifth quest!). This way you can tell which collection quests are worth doing, while not wasting time trying to find out. Once I was done I'd turn in the quests I had not dropped, and if there were enough follow-ups I'd grab those and do them as well. Or if there were only one or two follow-ups but they were easy or had a great reward.

6- It's a good way to make money! When the group was around level 20, I gave them each around 65 gold in anticipation of any needs, especially their level 30 mounts. After that, I figured that they could wait a while before getting any other upgrades (since I was going to head to Northrend at 68, they would not need flying skills until level 77). At level 65 they had enough money (600 gold each) to upgrade their riding skill and get a new mount. As of just-dinged level 69, they have around 550 gold each, except for the shaman who has around 900 gold. The extra 350 gold was from selling some BoE drops and mostly from auctioning the the Runecloth that I had collected while leveling. Also note that the ~1200-1300 gold that they've had so far (aside from the 65 gold I gave them and the auction winnings) is from quests, mob coin, and selling grey junk and soulbound items. BoEs prior to Outland were also just sold off, with the exception of one or two blues and an epic 2H sword. Outland and Northrend green BoEs go to the guild bank for DE. Outland and Northrend cloth go to the guild bank for tailoring. I've probably passed up an additional 200-500 gold per character by selling stuff that I could have auctioned (lots of pots, for instance).

7- If you're just leveling via outdoor quests, you can get by with just quest reward loot most of the time. For the hunters the most important item was their ranged weapon, and there was a pretty steady progression of bows and guns as they leveled up. For the shaman the most important stat was... nothing, really. She would heal when needed (mostly when tackling elites, or mobs that were 5-10 levels higher, or elites that were 5-10 levels higher) and that was about it. By the time her lightning bolt finishes casting, most mobs are dead. Both Outland and Northrend provide for some good upgrades during the first few quests you do. Outland provided new ranged weapons and three or four big armor upgrades. Same with Northrend. Shortly after entering the new expansion zones, you're geared up well enough to resume your role as Death Incarnate.

8- Collection quests suck. I know, it's not news to anyone. But it bears repeating. They suck.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

More or less my experience, except for the collection quests. I tend to view the collection quests as a means to grind a bit here and there without having to go run an instance a bunch, which to me is so boring it makes me want to cut myself. ;)

[Tonuss]

I cannot grind exp if the progress is too slow, it drives me crazy. Collection quests made this a bit more tolerable because it gives me something else to focus on, that can be completed more quickly than the exp grind (even the worst collection quest requires fewer kills than grinding out a level, after all). Some collection quests are bad in that the mobs you need are scattered all over. The wolf pelt quest would have been torture except for the fact that I knew I could grind on the spiders at the same time and gather silk for the 18 slot bags. I think that over the relatively short time I spent in Outland, I made three 18-slot bags per character. If I had to grind those out just for the silk, I'd have given up after about one bag. :)

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Heh, having objectives to focus on that at least change every so often is good. There are some collection quests that even I won't do as a 5-man. (The quillboar tusk one in barrens is one. The T0->T0.5 upgrade quests are another.) Some of them are just so stupidly long and don't lead to a follow-up chain or instance quest that it's just not worth what effectively is a distraction from normal quests. Another example is the Elixir of pain/agony/etc. in hillsbrad. I'll do the first one (for the bear hearts/spider ichor) because the bear hearts are now 100% drop rate and you're already there for the Durnholde quests anyway. I don't do the lion blood because it's just not worth the extra effort as you'll outlevel the zone from the rest of the quests anyway.

As someone above noted, having done the collection quests once or twice gives you a good feel for which ones you can bypass and when. ;)

[Ualaa]

1. Experience divided five way sucks sure, except for two things. First, solo it might take you 15 seconds to kill a mob, for 100% of the single mob experience value. In a 5-man group, it takes you 3 seconds to kill that same mob; if there are enough mobs in the area, or if you can roam in a large circle for never ending mobs, five man is no slower then one-man. Running out of mobs can make 5-man slower. Secondly, when grouped you get a (small) party bonus, which actually makes it a bit faster (even a pure grind, with no quests) then doing it 1-man, five times one after the other.


2. For kill quests, you can be behind the curve a little. The quest assumes you one-man it, and kill 10 mobs getting full exp. If you 5-man it, and kill 10 mobs, each toon has the experience of killing 2.1 or 2.15 mobs. Collections are usually the opposite, where it will take you 10 mobs to get your 2 horns, except you kill 50 mobs for your 10 horns and earn 5-10% extra exp's per toon because of the party bonus. Generally there are multiple area's to quest in for any level bracket, and as a boxer you can do quests several levels above you.


3. Agreed that collections can suck and that in particular Wrath requires you to do collections. If you skip the collection then the two kill quests are also unavailable, which lead to another collection, another kill and two more collections. At least with Interact With Object, every toon tries to loot, and some collections have the drop for each toon, most don't but what can you do?


4. For quickest leveling, you'll want to be in the next area at 58 and 68. I believe Outland had something insane like a 30% modifier, meaning the same level mob (take a 59) is worth quite a bit more in Outland (for the kill exp's) then in the old world. Outland 61 greens were better then Classic 60 blues or 55 purples. Wrath has followed this trend to a degree - the exp's are noticeably better (and between Howling Fjord and Borean Tundra, you have enough quests as a 68 compared to a 70 who only does one) but the gearing is not a massive boost. My shammy who was in a mix of T5/T6 did not get a single quest up until 78th, over her 70 gear. If you enjoy achievements like Loremaster or want a title like Seeker, you'll want to stay in old content and finish all of the quests before moving on; it will be slower leveling, but you'll make a ton more gold in the end, by having so many extra quests available for gold rather then exp rewards.


5. I personally use a purchased quest stacking guide. As far as the leveling speed, Kopp's guide (alliance side) is amazing. Unfortunately, he promised updates for all future content when he sold the guide, honored that promise with Burning Crusade, and went back on his word with Wrath saying it is in fact a new game. I won't recommend him, especially with all the free guides like Jamie's. Anyway, a quest stacking guide will level you much faster then just taking all the quests you can find in an area and going from there.


6. Once you hit Wrath, the gold is so good from quests, money is no longer an issue - with the possible exception of the epic flyer. At maximum level, dailies become a very strong option for gold farming, which will get you your epic flyers in short order. The second team, funded by the first, will not have any financial issues.


7. It is nice to be able to twink with the auction house, to buy 40 stacks of whatever cloth for your team to do first aid etc. You can get by and excel with just what you find. Joana's original release was a hunter, who set the record for 1-60 on a brand new server. He recorded the leveling to two cd's. At 60th, his hunter was not completely geared, ie some slots were still open. He had a level 16 bow, which was good enough to reach 60th with, faster then anyone else on the server. The AH is a nice luxury, but you don't need it at all.


8. I took a fairly long break from the game, because the collections sucked in particular in Wrath. I choose to look at them as grinding now. I grind by having a dvd or downloaded movie going, with more then half my attention on the movie. It's the same with BG's. I can sit in an AV tower waiting for it to burn, while watching a movie. There's enough concentration on the game to notice someone enter and to put my concentration on killing them. There's enough concentration on the dvd to not mind having to farm 12 of something, for 5 toons.

[Tonuss]

You are correct that the much faster kill speed in a group makes up for the lower experience. To be honest, I think it is more that you can see the exp bar moving when you are solo and it feels as if you are progressing, whereas the exp bar creeps along with the five-person group so it feels slower. It is probably also from the content being pretty old. I've leveled... oh man, dozens of characters through the 1-20 portion of the game, and at least three or four solo to 70/80. Northrend may not feel so bad because it is still somewhat new to me ("only" leveled two characters to 80, and only one character has really seen all the content, as my "old" shaman dinged 80 while still in Sholozar I think).

For a pure questing group that hits Outland at 58 and Northrend at 68, the gear upgrades are meaningful. I agree that the difference is much more notable when entering Outland, because the non-raid gear prior to tBC was awful and Blizzard also wanted to 'reset' the gear gap. The better planning made it so that WotLK did not require such a big gap. My level 80 shaman still has a lot of Karazhan gear (also leveled via quests, no instances in WotLK). On the other hand, one of the first quests in Borean Tundra upgraded the hunters from a 55 DPS bow to a 73 DPS bow and another quest shortly after that upgraded it to 76 DPS. The shaman with this group also replaced a dagger with something like +59 spell power to one with +173 spell power! The best part is that I think the gear in WotLK is better coordinated. The hunters looked like clowns after gearing up in tBC, but they'll have a more consistent look before very long. Why this matters I do not know, since they spend most of their time in tiny windows on my desktop. :)