[How-to] 5x Paladins Disscusion

[Tdog]

I've been getting alot of private messages lately asking me about my 5x pally set-up, heroics, and pvp. So instead of answering ever question individually, several times over which I unfortunately just don't have the time for I decided to go ahead and through up this post.

First off, THIS IS NOT A COMPLETE GUIDE TO 5X PALADINS!!! Nor is this a MY WAY IS DA BEST WAY EVAR!!! This is just my set-up and how I do things. These are some of the things that work for me, and if you see something that you do that is superior to what I do, by all means share with the class :P

Table of Contents
Post #1:
Set - Up

Buttons
Post #2:

Talents
Glyphs
Post #3: This post's contents are temporary and will be changed as I require more space.

Links to other Member's useful inputs.
Post #4:
Post #5:

Set-up - I run with 1 Protection Paladin and 4 Retribution Paladins. I 5 box on one machine using just a keyboard and mouse with 2 monitors.

Buttons - If you're unfamiliar with making macros Cogwheel has put up a very nice guide to making macros (http://www.wowwiki.com/Making_a_macro) on WoWwiki.
This is a list of what attacks I have assigned to which buttons. This isn't every last button I use but just the attacks/spells that get used quite often. Also depnding on what you use whether you use a keyboard of w/e you may choose to place different spells in different areas. In the end use what works for you!

1
Prot - Shield of Righteousness/SoRight

#showtooltip
/use [modifier:shift] Seal of Righteousness; Shield of Righteousness

Ret - CS / SoComm

#showtooltip crusader strike
/assist focus
/use [modifier:shift] seal of command
/stopmacro [noharm], [dead]
/startattack
/use crusader strike
/follow focus

2
Prot - JoJ/HS / Main spam button

#showtooltip judgement of justice
/startattack
/target frost tomb
/stopmacro [noharm], [dead]
/use 13
/use 14
/castsequence reset=combat/5 judgement of justice, Holy Shield
/startattack
Ret - JoL/JoW / Main spam button
Note that even though this is for judgement of light, I only use JoL on two ret pallies, the other two I use JoW. Judgements no longer stack but this decreases the chance that either judgement won't be up.

#showtooltip judgement of light
/assist focus
/stopmacro [noharm], [dead]
/use 13
/use 14
/use judgement of light
/startattack
/follow focus

3
This just happened to be the button I put Avenging Wrath into. You can put it in whatever macro you want, it just seemed to fit nicely for me here.

Prot - HoRight / AV

#showtooltip
/startattack
/stopmacro [noharm], [dead]
/use [modifier:shift] avenging wrath; hammer of the righteous
Ret - DS / AV

#showtooltip
/assist focus
/stopmacro [noharm], [dead]
/startattack [target=focustarget]
/use [modifier:shift] avenging wrath; divine storm

4
All
Exorcism

5
All - Consec / HW

#showtooltip
/use [modifier:shift] holy wrath; consecration

7
All - HoF / Repent
Yes I know prot pallies can't use repentance but I have it there when I switch his specs I don't have to use seperate macros :P

#showtooltip
/use [modifier:shift] repentance; hand of freedom

8
All - DP / SS

#showtooltip
/use [modifier:shift,target=player] Sacred Shield; Divine Plea

9
All - Aura / Bless
This is actually just the macro I use on my prot pally but I'm sure if you can read the macro you understand how to spread around the various blessings/auras. The 5 auras I use are Devo, Retri, Shadow, Frost, Fire.

#showtooltip
/use [modifier:shift] greater blessing of sanctuary ; !devotion aura


R
Prot - HoW
Hammer of Wrath

Ret - HoW

#showtooltip hammer of wrath
/assist focus
/use [target=party1target] hammer of wrath
F
Ret - Heals

#showtooltip
/use [modifier:shift, target=player] flash of light; [modifier:ctrl, target=player] holy light; [target=focus] flash of light
*NOTE* Do not have your tank heal while in combat! You do not parry/block while casting! You'll usually take more damage while casting the heal from not parrying/blocking then you'll actually heal yourself for.

V
All - Mounts
Insert your flying mount name in place of "snowy gryphon" and your land mount name in place of "charger"

#showtooltip [modifier:shift] snowy gryphon; charger
/use !crusader aura
/use [modifier:shift} snowy gryphon; charger
*Note* You only need to have one Paladin use the /use !crusader aura line.

C
All - HoJ / Repent
I use this button on Round Robin, repentance is included in this macro for mostly pvp purposes but it helps also for interrupts on trash mobs when I'm not CC'ing other mobs.

#showtooltip
/assist focus
/use [modifier:shift] repentance; hammer of justice

X
All - Cleanse
*NOTE* I set up this macro to cleanse your other pallies first, then to cleanse your focus/self thru modifiers. The reason I have it like this is if you get stunned, silenced, slept, MC'ed, etc. you cannot cleanse the magical debuffs off of yourself. With this cleansing your neighbor first this will not be a problem. Having a modifier to cleanse your focus which in my case is always the tank/leader always me to mass cleanse the lead toon which is especially important in pvp as he/she will likely be debuffed 9 ways to sunday. Having a modifier to cleanse yourself is in case the neighbor who suppose to cleanse you is dead or for whatever reason unable to cleanse said toon.

#showtooltip cleanse
/use [modifier:shift, target=focus] [modifier:ctrl, target=player] [target=INSERT TOON NAME HERE] cleanse

Z
All - DS / DP

#showtooltip
/use [modifier:shift] divine protection; divine shield

E
All - Interact with target
Some people only like to use this on their followers, I have no problem using it on all 5 but I guess that comes down to personal preference.

[Tdog]

Talents (http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?c=Paladin)

Below are some links showing how I currently have my paladins specc'ed atm. This will probably vary slightly depending on what you do with your paladins and your personal preference. I both complete heroics and pvp with these currents builds. Not to say that they are the absolute best or anything like that but simply that they work and work well. As always do what works best for you.

Protection - LOL, So I just realized that some of my Paladins' specs are messed up while I was writing up this portion. I'm going to instead link a build that I meant to have for each.
Prot - Aederin (http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=2&tal=0000000000000000000000000055005135203102321333 31232135200000200000000000000000) - Use GBofSanctuary and Devotion Aura on this paladin.

I think most of the talents are pretty self explanatory as to why I took them, however...
Reckoning is fantastic for boosting as it will always be up, however on heroic boss fights or pvp it's rarely ever up and while it is nice when used with SoL I didn't feel that it was worth the 5 pnts.
Guardian's Favor / Stoicism are nice additions to a pvp build but they aren't necessities by any means, nor are they as valuable in a pve setting.
Divine Sacrifice / Divine Guardian - I am not a fan of Divine Sacrifice for an all paladin team as I use Divine Storm as a group heal and having all that damage go to one toon defeats that purpose, I'll explain more on this when I write up my section on Heroics. Divine Guardian is however quite nice for the increased effects to Sacred Shield. More passive mititagation is always a good thing, especially when you're not running with a dedicated healer.
Imp. Hammer of Justice - With 5x HoJ and the 20 sec HoJ cd reduction from Judgements of the Just, you hardly need this talent. I dropped it for Pursuit of Justice which is crucial in PvP and nice to have in PvE.

Retribution
Ret 1 - Clarke (http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=2&tal=0000000000000000000000000055000105220000000000 00000015202251203330302133201331) - The important thing to note on this build is that he is specced into imp. BoMight. Use GBoMight on this Paladin.
Ret 2 - Harrison (http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=2&tal=0000000000000000000000000055000104220000000000 00000005230051203231302133231331) - The important thing to note on this build is that he has taken the imp. Ret Aura talents. I also went with 2/3 Crusader to get 2/2 imp. HoJ, I figure being able to have all the HoJs on the same timer would be more valuable than +1% damage to a few creature classes, if you don't agree feel free to move the point back. Use Retribution Aura on this Paladin.
Ret 3 - Evans (http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=2&tal=0000000000000000000000000055000104220000000000 00000005230251203331302133201331) - This build is identical to the 4th paladin's build. This build doesn't have imp. anything so you can use whatever blessing, other than BoMight, and aura, other than Devo or Ret, you want on this Paladin.
Ret 4 - Phillips (http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=2&tal=0000000000000000000000000055000104220000000000 00000005230251203331302133201331) - Identical to the 3rd Paladin's build.

Eye for an Eye - Pretty much useless in PvE as your Ret paladins should rarely be getting hit. Useful in pvp but once you get some practice in you are going to be running people over like a freight train, not to mention most people are foolish enough to only attack your main toon which in my case is my prot pally. If you are planning on heavy pvp or arena however you may try switching it into your builds.
Divine Purpose - Useful for PvP and pretty much useless for PvE for the same reasons as Eye for an Eye.
Toughness - I choose to go with 4/5 Toughness mostly for the reduction to movement slowing effects which is useful in both PvP and PvE, although the increased armor definietly helps for damage mitigation as it will always mitigate physical damage while Anticipation will only rarely mitigate additonal damage. If you plan to PvP alot you may consider Stoicism and/or Guardian's Favor but again the reduction to movement slowing effects is quite nice.

With these 5 builds you will have...

Imp. Devotion Aura - For the increased armor and 6% healing to anyone affected by the aura.
Blessing of Sanctuary - For the 3% damage reduction from all sources and gaining 2% mana from all blocks, parries, or dodges.
Divine Guardian - For the increased duration and absorption to Sacred Shield for all 5 paladins.
Judgements of the Just - For the reduction to enemy attack speed.
3x Heart of the Crusader - Will ensure that this effect is always up.
3x Vindication - Will ensure that this effect is always up.
5x Pursuit of Justice - Very useful in pvp to be able to outrun almost everyone. If you don't take this on your prot paladin then it makes it useless on your ret paladins.
Imp. Blessing of Might - 25% extra AP from BoM.
Sanctified Retribution - For increased retribution aura damage as well as increasing all damage by 3% for entire group.
Swift Retribution - For 3% increased attack speed for entire group.

Glyphs (http://www.wowwiki.com/Paladin_glyphs)

Protection
Major
Glyph of Judgement (http://www.wowwiki.com/Glyph_of_Judgement) - Your Judgements deal 10% more damage. Judgement gets used quite often, helps with threat and dps output.
Glyph of Hammer of the Righteous (http://www.wowwiki.com/Glyph_of_Hammer_of_the_Righteous) - Your Hammer of the Righteous hits 1 additional target. Since I use HotR on the same button as Divine Storm having HotR hit 4 targets like DS helps to keep aoe aggro.
Glyph of Divine Plea (http://www.wowwiki.com/Glyph_of_Divine_Plea) - While Divine Plea is active, you take 3% reduced damage from all sources. Since you should be keeping Divine Plea up 100% of the time on boss fights, it's a constant 3% damage reduction.

Minor
Glyph of Sense Undead (http://www.wowwiki.com/Paladin_glyphs) - Damage against Undead increased by 1% while your Sense Undead ability is active. Nothing major but its an increase damage.
Glyph of Lay on Hands (http://www.wowwiki.com/Glyph_of_Lay_on_Hands)- Reduces the cooldown of your Lay on Hands spell by 5 min. Using LoH on round robin gives you 5x emergency buttons. This glyph just makes sure that Lay on Hands is up alot more often.

Retribution
Major
Glyph of Judgement (http://www.wowwiki.com/Glyph_of_Judgement) - Your judgements deal 10% more damage. Judgement should be your main attack, increasing its damage would obviously be a good thing.
Glyph of Seal of Command (http://www.wowwiki.com/Glyph_of_Seal_of_Command) - Increases the chance of dealing Seal of Command damage by 20%. With no dedicated healer using SoBlood/Martyr causes too much damage and requires too much healing to be really effective. Thus I use SoCommand for both PvP and PvE and use this glyph to increase the frequency of SoCommand procs.
Glyph of Divine Storm (http://www.wowwiki.com/Glyph_of_Divine_Storm) - Your Divine Storm now heals for and additional 15% of the damage it causes. Divine Storm is a large source of healing in this group set-up. Increasing it's healing is a very good thing.

Minor
Glyph of Sense Undead (http://www.wowwiki.com/Paladin_glyphs) - Damage against Undead increased by 1% while your Sense Undead ability is active. Nothing major but its an increase damage.
Glyph of Lay on Hands (http://www.wowwiki.com/Glyph_of_Lay_on_Hands) - Reduces the cooldown of your Lay on Hands spell by 5 min. Using LoH on round robin gives you 5x emergency buttons. This glyph just makes sure that Lay on Hands is up alot more often.
Glyph of Blessing of Kings (http://www.wowwiki.com/Paladin_glyphs) - Reduces the mana cost of your Blessing of Kings and Greater Blessing of Kings spells by 50%. You obviously only need this glyph on the Paladin that blesses Kings. I know it isn't anything great, but there is no other minor glyph worth a thing so why not?

[Tdog]

Thanks to Stealthy for putting together some gear guides for ret paladins while leveling in Outland and Northrend.

Stealthy's Outland Gear Guide ('http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&postID=216464#post216464') for leveling Ret Paladins.

Stealthy's Northrend Gear Guide ('http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&postID=217450#post217450') for leveling Ret Paladins.
Northrend Gear Guide ('http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&postID=217714#post217714') part two.

[Tdog]

Post 4

[Tdog]

I have more to type but writing a well constructed post takes lots of RL time which isn't something I have alot of these days. I'll post more about heroics, pvp, and just handling 5x melee in general later. If you have any specific questions feel free to ask and I'll try to include what I do. Also if you have anything to add feel free to do that as well.

[Stealthy]

Hey Tdog,

Thanks for the list of macros. I did have a question about spec though - what spec are you running for your Ret Pallies? Do you have exectly the same spec on all your toons, or do you spec them differently?

The reason I ask - there are a few talents, like Heart of the Cursader and Sanctified Retribution, where it would seem that only one of the party members needs to have them...

Cheers,
S.

[Tdog]

I was actually planning on including that in the next part I threw up, going over the different talents and why I chose what. But in short yes, they 4 ret are all differently slightly differently specced to make the best use of things like improved blessings/auras and such.

Unfortunately I got to run off and pull a 12 hour shift so I'm not quite sure if i'll be able to do it all tonight.

[Multibocks]

I didnt know /use was interchangeable with /cast. I noticed you have it in a few macros, does that actually work? i.e. /use Hammer of Wrath

[Ughmahedhurtz]

I didnt know /use was interchangeable with /cast. I noticed you have it in a few macros, does that actually work? i.e. /use Hammer of WrathYes, they are functionally identical.

[Tdog]

I didnt know /use was interchangeable with /cast. I noticed you have it in a few macros, does that actually work? i.e. /use Hammer of WrathYes, they are functionally identical.They do the exact same thing, I just got into the habit of it back in the day to save alittle bit more room on the macros. However with some of the add-ons today, macro character limits aren't so much of a problem anymore.

To all those waiting for more info, sorry but I'm really just that busy IRL atm. I will be updating this with more info when I can.

[Ualaa]

On my pally I have a macro for Aura's.
I'm running with Pally + 4x Shammies, so Concentration is usually my aura of choice.

/cast [nomounted] !Concentration Aura; [mounted] !Crusader Aura

Not sure if this would be worth working into your pally Aura macro.
It is mashable because of the !'s.

[Coltimar]

Dude, you make some of the most useful and concise posts here. Thanks a lot.

[Multibocks]

I didnt know /use was interchangeable with /cast. I noticed you have it in a few macros, does that actually work? i.e. /use Hammer of WrathYes, they are functionally identical.

Hah, that will save one character!! WooT!

[Tdog]

Dude, you make some of the most useful and concise posts here. Thanks a lot.Thanks :D Well tommorrow and Monday I not working super long days so I might actually have some time to throw more info up.

[Tdog]

Begin to add in my talent/glyph section in post #2. Not finished but I think I'm just going to have to do my sections in pieces rather than all at once. Hope what I've posted thus far helps someone.

[Ruodhaid]

As my main alrady is a prot paladin, and i useing him in my 1pala/4shaman team i think this would be my next project. Do you have any movies from lvl 80 bg/arena/heroics? i would relly like to see what i can expect

[Tdog]

As my main alrady is a prot paladin, and i useing him in my 1pala/4shaman team i think this would be my next project. Do you have any movies from lvl 80 bg/arena/heroics? i would relly like to see what i can expectI haven't done any arenas yet. TBH they just aren't my cup of tea. I do imagine with some practice though being able to tear up some in the lower brackets for sure as I regulary take on 5+ ppl in BG's all the time. But once you get to the point where people start really focusing their snares/fears, not saying it would stop you completely, but it will for sure begin to be a challenge.

I mostly play AV as killing people in the other BG's isn't even a challenge really, I actually generally end up tanking drek as no one else in the BG ever seems to want to switch to their tank spec prior to AV starting. I've taken on as many as 10 people before and won in AB, keep in mind though that was with 2/3 of the hateful gear. I hate wsg with a passion due to the fact that games can last 3+ hours but that may change with the new 20 min timer. Eye of the storm is actually pretty fun too as you can pretty much cap a tower on your own, caster can be a pain in the butt so I usually just stick to either MT or BT while playing that game so I can LoS them easier.

I haven't come across a heroic boss I couldn't kill yet though some of the hard hitting aoe bosses are a real pain and sometimes the only way, i've done it as least, is just brute force all out dps while making proper use of divine protection, divine shield, LoH, SoLight, whatever else needs to be used.

No I haven't made any videos. I barely have enough time to make a few posts lately little alone actually play the game or figure out how to use fraps :(

[Fat Tire]

Thanks for the great thread Tdog



What do you think about the Ret changes coming in 3.2 ? This question goes out to anyone with a ret. Thanks

[Tdog]

Think I'm about finished with my Talent Section in Post #2. I'll add in the glyphs later after I grab some lunch. Feel Free to add in comments and/or additions on the section.

I've also changed the name of the thread to 5x Paladin Discussion as I'm actually hoping that this can be more of a discussion rather than just me telling all of you what I do. Multi melee multiboxing has only recently become much more popular and I would love to hear any ideas some of you guys have. Any input you give will be credited to you should I throw it in my post.
On my pally I have a macro for Aura's.
I'm running with Pally + 4x Shammies, so Concentration is usually my aura of choice.

/cast [nomounted] !Concentration Aura; [mounted] !Crusader Aura

Not sure if this would be worth working into your pally Aura macro.
It is mashable because of the !'s.I actually for some reason forgot to make mention in my Macro section of my "V" button being assigned to my mount macro.I tried working in a /mounted /nomounted conditionals into the macro but I didn't seem to come up with anything that worked that well for me. For now I just hit my "V" key to switch to crusader aura while mounting on my prot paladin, then "9" is assigned to devo aura on my prot paladin. I will probably play around with this more later and see if I can't come up with something that will work better. If you or anyone else has something better please post!


Thanks for the great thread Tdog



What do you think about the Ret changes coming in 3.2 ? This question goes out to anyone with a ret. ThanksThank you, and I am was actually planning making mention on the indiviual Ret changes in 3.2 but with how little time I have these days I think I'm just going to make a few comments later on. Although I will say that even though there are some nerfs, I think in the end 5x paladins will actually be a tad bit stronger than now. I'll discuss it more later.

[Tdog]

Glyph section is pretty much finished in post #2. Also included a table of contents in post #1.

[Multibocks]

Tdog have you tried all paladins going prot? Im curious if they all have massive amounts of block how well they can dps. Not to mention you would be almost unkillable in pvp.

[lans83]

Here's my pally team so far. Right now, they're parked at lvl 46 and 45. I've got Blacksmithing on my main, so the questline put him farther ahead in xp, damn near a whole lvl worth. Anyway, here's their pages on the Armory:

Lansylot 46 Prot ('http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Earthen+Ring&n=Lansylot')

Kírstyn 45 Ret ('http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Earthen+Ring&n=K%C3%ADrstyn')

Kïrstyn 45 Ret ('http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Earthen+Ring&n=K%C3%AFrstyn')

Kîrstyn 45 Ret ('http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Earthen+Ring&n=K%C3%AErstyn')

Thinkin about switchin the Rets to Prot for the BGs to survive longer. Everyone hates goin up against tanks in there, so I figure, why not 4 Tanks woopin up on eveyrone at once :D Atleast that way, I don't have to worry about my slaves pullin aggro off my main. Tryin to save up enough for Dual-Spec on them now that they're all past 40. Just need the gold.

[Tdog]

Tdog have you tried all paladins going prot? Im curious if they all have massive amounts of block how well they can dps. Not to mention you would be almost unkillable in pvp.I've thought about it, haven't done it though. The two problems I forsee with all Prot would be one mana and two no DS for groups heals. Sure all the paladins would have spiritual attunement but with only 5-6k mana pools that's like 5 Holy Lights and you're done. If you used Divine plea than you're healing for next to nothing. The reason DS is so great in my book is because not only does 4x DS heal for a ton but you have no need to target and cast WHILE dealing tons of damage and it's a short cooldown. That said I don't want to discourage anyone from giving it a try if they want too. If you do and you make it work post up and let us know how it goes.

I have however thought about all Shockadin's at least for pvp if not for pve. I think that would provide a good amount of burst/surviability not to mention fun. I would recommend however to you guys giving Ret an honest chance in pvp. I already destroy in pvp with my current set-up and tbh it's pretty rare that I will start losing toons unless I'm just being stupid or get overwhelmed.

I'll be writing up a section on PvP in BG's eventually when I get the time.

[Stealthy]

Stealthy's Outland Gear Guide for Levelling Ret Pallies:

*New and Improved!*

My new gear guides now covers all slots (including cloaks, trinkets, rings and shields) except librams, and a weight scale on stats (based on the info in this thread (http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t53532-3_1_retribution_paladin_thread/) on the EJ forums). Enjoy!

Armor:

Quested Gear (http://www.wowhead.com/?items=4&filter=minle=80;maxle=120;maxrl=69;ub=2;cr=110:18; crs=1:1;crv=0:0;gm=3;gb=1;wt=119:20:117:96:21:103: 114:77;wtv=100:80:60:50:40:35:30:20)

BoE World Drops (http://www.wowhead.com/?items=4&filter=minle=80;maxle=120;maxrl=69;ub=2;cr=110:3:7 2;crs=1:1:1;crv=0:0:0;gm=3;gb=1;wt=119:20:117:96:2 1:103:114:77;wtv=100:80:60:50:40:35:30:20)

Instance Drops - Normal (http://www.wowhead.com/?items=4&filter=minle=80;maxle=120;maxrl=69;ub=2;cr=110:2:1 05;crs=1:1:-2323;crv=0:0:0;gm=3;gb=1;wt=119:20:117:96:21:103:1 14:77;wtv=100:80:60:50:40:35:30:20)

Crafted Gear (http://www.wowhead.com/?items=4&filter=minle=80;maxle=140;maxrl=70;ub=2;cr=110:3:8 6;crs=1:1:11;crv=0:0:0;gm=3;gb=1;wt=119:20:117:96: 21:103:114:77;wtv=100:80:60:50:40:35:30:20)

Weapons:


Quested Gear (http://www.wowhead.com/?items=2&filter=minle=80;maxle=120;ub=2;cr=110:18;crs=1:1;c rv=0:0;gm=3;gb=1;wt=134:119:20:117:96:21:103:114:7 7;wtv=120:90:80:60:50:40:35:30:20#two-hand)

BoE World Drops (http://www.wowhead.com/?items=2&filter=minle=80;maxle=120;ub=2;cr=110:3:72;crs=1:1 :1;crv=0:0:0;gm=3;gb=1;wt=134:119:20:117:96:21:103 :114:77;wtv=120:90:80:60:50:40:35:30:20#two-hand)

Instance Drops - Normal (http://www.wowhead.com/?items=2&filter=minle=80;maxle=120;ub=2;cr=110:2:105;crs=1: 1:-2323;crv=0:0:0;gm=3;gb=1;wt=134:119:20:117:96:21:1 03:114:77;wtv=120:90:80:60:50:40:35:30:20#two-hand)

Crafted Gear (http://www.wowhead.com/?items=2&filter=minle=80;maxle=120;ub=2;cr=110:3:86;crs=1:1 :11;crv=0:0:0;gm=3;gb=1;wt=134:119:20:117:96:21:10 3:114:77;wtv=120:90:80:60:50:40:35:30:20#two-hand)


Cheers,
S.

[Multibocks]

Thanks Stealthy!

[Stealthy]

Hit 62 last night and have upgraded the gear for most slots on my guys - only have the bracers and a ring slot to go. Here's a link to my armory for those interested:
Main:
Hammertïme ('http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Magtheridon&n=Hammert%C3%AFme')
Alts:
Hammertîme ('http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Magtheridon&n=Hammert%C3%AEme')
Hammertìme ('http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Magtheridon&n=Hammert%C3%ACme')
Hammèrtime ('http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Magtheridon&n=Hamm%C3%A8rtime')
Hammertíme ('http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Magtheridon&n=Hammert%C3%ADme')

Similar to Tdog, I've gone for slightly different specs on each toon to maximise the benefits of blessings and auras, and minmise the redundancy of non-stacking buffs.

Cheers,
S.

[Tdog]

One thing I didn't see in your lists is the most important piece of gear for a ret pally, your 2h'ers! Go get the Hellreaver ('http://www.wowhead.com/?item=24044') out of Ramps! You'll tear down elites before they even know what hit em with 5x ret pallies.

Tip for the last boss, once the dragon lands have your main w/Righteous Fury on kite him around in a circle while strafing while spamming your follow button (this is one of the reasons I have /follow in my attack macros) and you will avoid all the fire breaths on the followers, just use SoL on your main, and 5x DS and 5x instant FoL's should be enough to keep up your main so you don't ever have to actually stop and direct heal.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

There's also a couple of superb 2h maces that drop from Underbog (Black Stalker) and Shattered Halls (the ogre boss, I forget his name), though you'll upgrade that as soon as you do about 5 quests in Howling Fjord. :P

My pally team hit 70 last night. Looking forward to seeing how they do in Northrend. 20% less collection quests for me though as one of my pallies is already 80 and decently geared. :)

PALLY POWAH!

[Tdog]

Yea there are quite a few good 2h'ers in Outlands. Once you are able to complete Sethakk Halls I'd go for Terokk's Quill ('http://www.wowwiki.com/Terokk%27s_Quill') , that should last you for the rest of Outlands. Then just pick up that first green 2h'er in Boren Tundra. er Howling Fjord for Horde.

Edit: Put a link in post #3 to Stealthy's lists. Thanks for taking the time to put them together Stealthy!

[Multibocks]

Tdog have you set up any paladin for Divine Sacrifice? I was reading a ret thread on another board and it is a must have for raids. Well I started thinking about it and what if you had it so one paladin uses divine sacrifice and divine shield at same time meaning that paladin would take no damge since hes immune. That would mean your group can take 150%(health of paladin) of incoming damage before the buff expires. If you have this on round robin your group can go 600% of health before actually taking damage. Am I thinking this through correctly?

[Stealthy]

Bit of an update on my progress through outlands...

I ran Ramps a few times in the hope getting a Hellreaver or two, but no such luck. My strat on the last boss was pretty simple - run in and DPS the rider, then DPS the dragon when he lands, until he starts to breath fire. Then pop divine shield x 5 and continue to DPS - by the time the sheild drops, the dragon is close to death or dead. Just remember to move after you killed the dragon, becuase you'll most likely be standing in a pool of fire. ;)

I found the exp from instances was actually slower than questing, so went back to questing - which basically involves cherry-picking the gear upgrade quests and doing the easiest quests from each zone. At 65 I went and did the Ring of Blood quests for this: Honed Voidaxe ('http://www.wowhead.com/?item=25762'). This weapon will last you until Northrend, and you get about 25% of a level just going through the quests to get it - definitely recommended.

Hit 66 last night and got my fist lvl 80 kill from this clown ('http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Magtheridon&n=Cycloniz') and didn't lose a single toon, despite him getting the drop on me. He must have been pissed becuase he came back with two other level 80's and stomped me. :P

I should hit 67 tonight (20% from level) - which means I'll be only one level from Northrend, so I'll put together a Northrend gear guide and post it here shortly.

Cheers,
S.

[Multibocks]

no one thought anything of my clever, albeit untested, immunity rotation?

[Stealthy]

Stealthy's Northrend Gear Guide for Levelling Ret Pallies:

*New and Improved!*

My new gear guides now covers all slots (including cloaks, trinkets, rings and shields) except librams, and a weight scale on stats (based on the info in this thread (http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t53532-3_1_retribution_paladin_thread/) on the EJ forums). Enjoy!

Armor:

Quested Gear (http://www.wowhead.com/?items=4&filter=ty=4:-3:-6:7:-2:-4:6;minle=138;maxle=180;ub=2;cr=131:18;crs=1:1;crv =0:0;gm=3;gb=1;wt=119:20:22:117:96:21:103:114:77;w tv=100:80:70:60:50:40:35:30:20#back:0-2-22+1)

BoE World Drops (http://www.wowhead.com/?items=4&filter=ty=4:-3:-6:7:-2:-4:6;minle=138;maxle=250;ub=2;cr=131:3:72;crs=1:1:1 ;crv=0:0:0;gm=3;gb=1;wt=119:20:22:117:96:21:103:11 4:77;wtv=100:80:70:60:50:40:35:30:20)

Instance Drops - Normal (http://www.wowhead.com/?items=4&filter=ty=4:-3:-6:7:-2:-4:6;minle=138;maxle=190;ub=2;cr=131:2:105;crs=1:1:-2323;crv=0:0:0;gm=3;gb=1;wt=119:20:22:117:96:21:10 3:114:77;wtv=100:80:70:60:50:40:35:30:20)

Instance Drops - Heroic (http://www.wowhead.com/?items=4&filter=ty=4:-3:-6:7:-2:-4:6;minle=190;maxle=200;ub=2;cr=131:2:106;crs=1:1:-2323;crv=0:0:0;gm=3;gb=1;wt=119:20:22:117:96:21:10 3:114:77;wtv=100:80:70:60:50:40:35:30:20)

Crafted Gear (http://www.wowhead.com/?items=4&filter=ty=4:-3:-6:7:-2:-4:6;minle=138;maxle=239;ub=2;cr=131:3:86;crs=1:1:1 1;crv=0:0:0;gm=3;gb=1;wt=119:20:22:117:96:21:103:1 14:77;wtv=100:80:70:60:50:40:35:30:20)

Weapons:


Quested Gear (http://www.wowhead.com/?items=2&filter=minle=138;maxle=180;ub=2;cr=131:18;crs=1:1; crv=0:0;gm=3;gb=1;wt=119:134:20:22:22:117:96:21:10 3:114:77;wtv=100:90:80:70:70:60:50:40:35:30:20#two-hand:0-2-22+1)

BoE World Drops (http://www.wowhead.com/?items=2&filter=minle=138;maxle=180;ub=2;cr=131:3:72;crs=1: 1:1;crv=0:0:0;gm=3;gb=1;wt=119:134:20:22:117:96:21 :103:114:77;wtv=100:90:80:70:60:50:40:35:30:20#two-hand)

Instance Drops - Normal (http://www.wowhead.com/?items=2&filter=minle=138;maxle=190;ub=2;cr=131:2:105;crs=1 :1:-2323;crv=0:0:0;gm=3;gb=1;wt=119:134:20:22:117:96:2 1:103:114:77;wtv=100:90:80:70:60:50:40:35:30:20#tw o-hand)

Instance Drops - Heroic (http://www.wowhead.com/?items=2&filter=minle=190;maxle=200;ub=2;cr=131:2:106;crs=1 :1:-2323;crv=0:0:0;gm=3;gb=1;wt=119:134:20:22:117:96:2 1:103:114:77;wtv=100:90:80:70:60:50:40:35:30:20#tw o-hand)

Crafted Gear (http://www.wowhead.com/?items=2&filter=minle=138;maxle=239;ub=2;cr=131:3:86;crs=1: 1:11;crv=0:0:0;gm=3;gb=1;wt=119:134:20:22:117:96:2 1:103:114:77;wtv=100:90:80:70:60:50:40:35:30:20#tw o-hand)


Cheers,
S.

[Stealthy]

no one thought anything of my clever, albeit untested, immunity rotation?

For PvP, I think it's good, but situationally useful. Divine Sacrfice only redirects 30% (40% talented) of the damage, so it depends on the amount of incoming damage your team is taking. If you're getting Hurricane, Blizzard, Bladestorm etc... from one or two other players, then its great way to mitigate the damage. But if you're getting focus fired in a BG, I don't think 30%/40% will be enough - in that case you'd be better off popping divine shield on all toons and causing as much havoc as you can for 12 secs. ;)

But definitely a handy tool to have in the arsenal.

Cheers,
S.

[Multibocks]

Ah good catch. I still think it is VERY useful for pve. Take Heroic Halls of Lightning boss Ionar, for example. You have to run away from him everytime he disperses. Now those little bastards put out a crap ton of AE damage and you have to run away from it. Most of the time you will take damage, even if prepared to run away. Popping this everytime he disperses will ensure that 40% damage will not hit your group for 5 disperses. That, I believe, would make him in the "doable" category. There are other bosses that put out massive AE damage too, Skadi is another example. His WW melee is devastating to a team that is all melee. I would put in the "not doable" category for any other all melee team. Paladins he might be possible with the above trick.

Only problem with this strat is, if they havent changed it, Divine Shield kills all your buffs. That sucks and reduces your teams dps as they round robin use it. Oh well, guess you cant have everything.


edit: hmm maybe on Ionar running them all in different directions and healing would be a better approach.

[Stealthy]

Ah good catch. I still think it is VERY useful for pve. Take Heroic Halls of Lightning boss Ionar, for example. You have to run away from him everytime he disperses. Now those little bastards put out a crap ton of AE damage and you have to run away from it. Most of the time you will take damage, even if prepared to run away. Popping this everytime he disperses will ensure that 40% damage will not hit your group for 5 disperses. That, I believe, would make him in the "doable" category. There are other bosses that put out massive AE damage too, Skadi is another example. His WW melee is devastating to a team that is all melee. I would put in the "not doable" category for any other all melee team. Paladins he might be possible with the above trick.

Only problem with this strat is, if they havent changed it, Divine Shield kills all your buffs. That sucks and reduces your teams dps as they round robin use it. Oh well, guess you cant have everything.


edit: hmm maybe on Ionar running them all in different directions and healing would be a better approach.

Yep, for PvE it's gold!

Another thing I've found thats really useful is when your main is the target of focused damage (whether from an instance boss or other players), round robin Lay on Hands is awesome. 5 x instant full heals is OP!

Cheers,
S.

[Multibocks]

Now to find a key for LoH that isnt already in use. So many abilities on paladins that are situationally usefull...

[Tdog]

Tdog have you set up any paladin for Divine Sacrifice? I was reading a ret thread on another board and it is a must have for raids. Well I started thinking about it and what if you had it so one paladin uses divine sacrifice and divine shield at same time meaning that paladin would take no damge since hes immune. That would mean your group can take 150%(health of paladin) of incoming damage before the buff expires. If you have this on round robin your group can go 600% of health before actually taking damage. Am I thinking this through correctly?You know for some reason I just assumed that this wouldn't work and that you would either not be able to have both up or that you would still take the damage anyways from the group damage and never even thought to try it.

I'm assuming you guys have already tried it and know it works which if is the case, then this is an awesome idea. Like Stealthy said it would be situationally useful in pvp and pve but in those special situations (Like the Skadi fight) it would be VERY useful. I've gotten Skadi down but I got to admit, that guy is a jerk and them some. By the time you're done healing from the WW you got like 5secs to dps and he is WW'ing again :cursing: If this would allow me to just passively heal on the first WW then direct heal on the second WW, I would be able to kick his trash in no time.



Linked Stealthy's new guide on post #3 for now.

Sorry to those who have been waiting that I haven't been able to really add anything to the OP, but I have been going completely non stop 7 days a week for the past few weeks. As of this week I'm down from 12 hour days to 9 hour days at work so I might be able to actually add in at least some of my tips on heroics and pvp sometime soon.

[Stealthy]

Just thought I'd mention that I've posted separate guides for both Outland ('http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&postID=216464&highlight=outland+ret+pallies#post216464') and Northrend ('http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&postID=217450&highlight=northrend+ret+pallies#post217450').



Cheers,

S.

[Multibocks]

Tdog have you set up any paladin for Divine Sacrifice? I was reading a ret thread on another board and it is a must have for raids. Well I started thinking about it and what if you had it so one paladin uses divine sacrifice and divine shield at same time meaning that paladin would take no damge since hes immune. That would mean your group can take 150%(health of paladin) of incoming damage before the buff expires. If you have this on round robin your group can go 600% of health before actually taking damage. Am I thinking this through correctly?You know for some reason I just assumed that this wouldn't work and that you would either not be able to have both up or that you would still take the damage anyways from the group damage and never even thought to try it.

I'm assuming you guys have already tried it and know it works which if is the case, then this is an awesome idea. Like Stealthy said it would be situationally useful in pvp and pve but in those special situations (Like the Skadi fight) it would be VERY useful. I've gotten Skadi down but I got to admit, that guy is a jerk and them some. By the time you're done healing from the WW you got like 5secs to dps and he is WW'ing again :cursing: If this would allow me to just passively heal on the first WW then direct heal on the second WW, I would be able to kick his trash in no time.



Linked Stealthy's new guide on post #3 for now.

Sorry to those who have been waiting that I haven't been able to really add anything to the OP, but I have been going completely non stop 7 days a week for the past few weeks. As of this week I'm down from 12 hour days to 9 hour days at work so I might be able to actually add in at least some of my tips on heroics and pvp sometime soon.

I have not tested it, but I read that this is a key raid tool to reduce raid damage as a ret paladin. :pinch:

[ElectronDF]

Not sure if this is the best thread to put it in, but I accidentally started a 4 pally/1 shammy group. In the past with my pally solo (way, way back in the day), I used warrior gear and never thought twice about it. Now with spell power and stuff, should I aim for just str, str/agi, int/SP, or a mix of AP stuff and SP stuff? I thought I looked through some of the spells and it had like (Numbers * AP + numbers * SP) so if I had one or the other, it would be fine. Or even if I mixed them, no harm done. Maybe I am missing a spell like concecration or something that is one or the other only. Or maybe if I get agi stuff along with str, it might help my crit, but if my white crit doesn't matter (just spell stuff), then it won't help. I am just not sure what to do.

Hopefully someone can help with more than just "Get STAT, it is the bomb." And give me few reasons why they like one stat or group of stats over others. I don't know to make this funny, since it all sounds serious....I love str on my priest cause with my staff I can cause death-by-stick better than any caster, lol.

[ihustlepancakes]

retarded question, what do you have in your /use 13 /use 14?

[Jubber]

As a ret paladin you want to gear with strength as your main stat. Balance it with crit strike rating in order to keep up your vengeance stacks. Sheath of light gives you an AP -> Sp conversion so there is no need to stack spell power.

[ihustlepancakes]

a second retarded question, when you say 'put HoJ on round robin', what do you mean? as far as ive been doing it, ive had each toon with a hammer on 6-0 and pushed each for a stun individually, though this is getting tedious.. id really, really love an easier more brainless way to have consistant regular stuns

[ElectronDF]

I am going to pretend you don't know this, so if you do, sorry. Char positions (stuff you equip) have numbers with them. You can use names for the gear, but if you change gear, the names change, which means you have to change macros and that gets old. So stuff like main hand (16), off hand (17), 1st trinket (13) and 2nd trinket (14) can be /use'd to use the "Use:" part of the item. So /use 13 and /use 14 use the 1st and 2nd trinkets. If you want an item in your bags, you just use 2 numbers, /use 4 20 is use bag 4 (far left) and slot 20. You can look up info on WoWWiki.com (http://www.wowwiki.com/API_TYPE_InventorySlotID).

The next part is round robin. This can be done in multiple ways (key broadcasting or in macros). The key broadcasting is dependant on your key broadcaster. The macro part is done by castsequences.
Example: (each line is in a macro on each char....line 1-char1, line 2-char2, etc)
/castsequence [options] reset=RESET DPSSpell1, , , , , , , ,
/castsequence [options] reset=RESET , DPSSpell1, , , , , , ,
/castsequence [options] reset=RESET , , DPSSpell1, , , , , ,
and so on. So first press of KEY (pick your hotkey), the first char casts DPSSpell1 and the others do "null" which is what the blank spaces between the commas do. null does nothing. Then the next press makes char 1 do "null" and char 2 casts DPSSpell1. And so on. The RESET can be quite a few things, the easiest is combat/target/time/modifier (shift-ctrl-alt). So you put reset=combat and when you leave combat, the sequence resets. Well, the problem is if you only did 2 spells (hammer) then the first 2 chars will error out cause their spell is on cooldown. The time doesn't work great since it is time since the last time the macro was run. So you just have to pick something and deal with it. Try a time about 2/3 of the cooldown time. Usually you will have pressed the macro a couple of times so you will use up about a 1/3 of the cooldown time. You still have to wait for the cooldown to reset it, but hopefully that is done while you are wandering around not hammering things.
Hope that helps and good luck.

[Stealthy]

Not sure if this is the best thread to put it in, but I accidentally started a 4 pally/1 shammy group. In the past with my pally solo (way, way back in the day), I used warrior gear and never thought twice about it. Now with spell power and stuff, should I aim for just str, str/agi, int/SP, or a mix of AP stuff and SP stuff? I thought I looked through some of the spells and it had like (Numbers * AP + numbers * SP) so if I had one or the other, it would be fine. Or even if I mixed them, no harm done. Maybe I am missing a spell like concecration or something that is one or the other only. Or maybe if I get agi stuff along with str, it might help my crit, but if my white crit doesn't matter (just spell stuff), then it won't help. I am just not sure what to do.

Hopefully someone can help with more than just "Get STAT, it is the bomb." And give me few reasons why they like one stat or group of stats over others. I don't know to make this funny, since it all sounds serious....I love str on my priest cause with my staff I can cause death-by-stick better than any caster, lol.

Have a read of this thread ('http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t53532-3_1_retribution_paladin_thread/') over on Elitist Jerks. It covers off which stats you should go for and in which priority, as well as a bunch of other topics relating to Ret Pallies. Required reading for anyone playing a Ret Pally IMO. :)

Cheers,
S.

[ihustlepancakes]

hey, fantastic! it works :D
haha, the trinket question, i was just curious what he was using XD
thanks though, appreciate it

[Stealthy]

Hit 68 last night, so I'm finally off to Northrend...yay me! :P

Similarly to when you first hit Outland, quests in the starting zones in Northrend offer significant gear upgrades - so I put together a list of the best quest gear available at lvl's 68 / 69:

Borean Tundra:
Chest - Gorge's Breastplate of Bloodrage (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37476) / The Plains of Nasam (http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=11652) / Lvl 68
Head - Amberplate Headguard (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37519) / Return with the Bad News (http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=11689) / Lvl 68
Shoulders - Chilled Shoulderplates (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37507) / Stop the Plague (http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=11677) / Lvl 68
Waist - Amberplate Waistguard (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37518) / Fallen Necropolis (http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=11683) / Lvl 68
Wrist - Freed Shackles (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37514) / Leading the Ancestors Home (http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=11610) / Lvl 68
Back - Durable Worghide Cape (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37566) / Travel to Moa'ki Harbor (http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=12117) / Lvl 68
Finger 1 - Rigid Tuskring (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37523) / Gamel the Cruel (http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=11619) / Lvl 68
Neck - Choker of Forceful Redemption (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=38231) / Breaking Through (http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=11898) / Lvl 68
Trinket 1 - Warsong's Fervor (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37557) / We Strike! (http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=11592) / Lvl 68
Trinket 2 - Serrah's Star (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37559) / Keep the Secret Safe (http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=11914) / Lvl 69
Hands - Bogstrok Plate Gloves (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37506) / Surrender...Not! (http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=11566) / Lvl 69
Legs - Amberplate Legguards (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37479) / Revenge Upon Magmoth (http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=11639) / Lvl 69
Weapon - Axe of Frozen Death (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=38237) / Hellscream's Champion (http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=11916) / Lvl 68

Howling Fjord:
Finger 2 - Lost Vrykul Signet (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=35881) / The Frost Wyrm and its Master (http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=11267) / Lvl 68
Feet - Master Artilleryman Boots (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=35866) / Brains! Brains! Brains! (http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=11301) / Lvl 69
Weapon - Cragthumper (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=35812) / Landing The Killing Blow (http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=11233) / Lvl 68

Note - the quests listed are the Horde versions, but if you click on the item links, you should be able to find the Alliance equivalent if it's a Horde only quest...The good news is that most of the upgrades come from one zone, which means less running around.

Also I listed two weapons, since the Axe of the Frozen Death requires completing a long quest chain, and Cragthumper is available much sooner.

Hope you find this helpful.

Cheers,
S.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Hmm. Guess I need to go get that DS/DS macro set up. Had a really hard time on the last boss in UK with all that AoE shadow damage in phase 2.

[Multibocks]

You are avoiding the AE right? With my DK team I bound the down arrow key to back up my slaves AND make my main run forward. Worked flawlessly as long as you paid attention, lol.

[Tdog]

Hmm. Guess I need to go get that DS/DS macro set up. Had a really hard time on the last boss in UK with all that AoE shadow damage in phase 2.Quick version of Ingvar the Plunder fight:

Phase 1: Ez mode tank and spank. Just keep the 4 ret behind Ingvar and supposing your prot pally isn't very under geared you should be able to leave him/her in for the smashes.

Phase 2: BURN THAT MOFO TO DA GROUND!!! Do not use Avenging Wrath however as you will surely eat at least one Dark Smash. As soon as he pops up go to town on him. Once he starts to cast Dark Smash pop Divine Protection not Shield, it will slow your dps down way too much and Divine Storm + JoL should be enough to keep you going just fine. Dark Smash however isn't the real killer here, it's that damn Axe. However for some reason I have never once seen him throw the axe any sooner than about 20 seconds after the first Dark Smash.

While you still have crap gear it may take you till after the 2nd Dark Smash to kill him, so you may need to just use a couple of rounds of Holy Light to heal up from the Dark Smash and also save a Divine Storm and a round of instant FoL's till after Dark Smash has already begun, then save Divine Shield for the Axe should he use the ability. Once you start to get better geared you can usually kill him shortly after the 1st Dark Smash and way before he ever uses the Axe throw ability.

K, it wasn't that short :P

[Stealthy]

Thought I'd post my thoughts (from a boxing perspective) on the upcoming changes to Pallies in patch 3.2, so here they are:

- Blessing of Sanctuary: This blessing now also increases stamina by 10%. This effect is not cumulative with Blessing of Kings.
PvE & PvP - if you're only running one pally in your group, and he's tanking - its a buff. For multiple-pally groups, no change since you would be covered by BoK already.

- Exorcism: Now has a 1.5 second cast time, but can once again be used on players.
PvE - Nerf. It was a nice instant cast spell to have on my ret palies for some extra DPS, especially when trying to burn down a mob as quickly as possible. Although it will be made instant when AoW procs, I like to use the AoW procs for spot healing on my main.
PvP - Buff. Since it now affects players again, the AoW procs will make some for some nice burst, albeit somewhat RNG

- Hand of Reckoning: Redesigned. Now does damage only when the target does not currently have the caster targeted, but damage done increased to 50% of attack power, occurring after the taunt effect is applied.
PvE - Buff. Single target pulling just got a whole lot better...
PvP - No change. Even though HoR can't be used against players, it still has a few uses in PvP. Firstly it keeps players in combat which is good for preventing players from mounting, and druids & rogues from stealthing (without using vanish anyway). Secondly it can be used against player pets to taunt them off, although reports from the PTR suggest that the damage component is not going through (even though the taunt is).

- Judgements: Some of these attacks were considered ranged and some melee. They are all now considered melee attacks that can't be dodged, parried or blocked.
PvE - Possible buff. With Art of War being changed to proc off melee crits, this could possibly assist on keeping AoW up more often
PvP - Possible buff. As per PvE

- Judgement of Light: Now heals for 2% of the attacker's maximum health instead of a variable amount based on the spell power and attack power of the judging paladin.
PvE & PvP - Nerf. Reports from the PTR say that raid buffed healing from JoL is down. Havent been able to find any numbers on non-buffed group healing though.

Lay on Hands: The buff from this ability now reduces the physical damage taken by the target by 10/20% instead of increasing the target's armor.
PvE & PvP - Buff. Now becomes much more useful for non-plate wearing targets.

Sacred Shield: When a paladin casts Flash of Light on a target with this buff, they also now place a heal-over-time effect on the target, healing that target for 100% of the Flash of Light amount over 12 seconds.
PvE & PvP - Buff. If you've spec'd into Divine Guardian this change is just great. If it turns out the HoT stacks, it will be awesomesauce.

- Seal of Blood: This ability has been removed.
- Seal of the Martyr: This ability has been removed.
- Seal of Vengeance and Seal of Corruption: These seals have been redesigned to deal substantially more damage. Now, once a paladin has 5 copies of the debuff from these seals on his or her target, on each swing the paladin will deal 33% weapon damage as Holy, with critical strikes dealing double damage. In addition, the damage-over-time effect is now considered a melee attack instead of a spell attack.
- Seal of Command: Redesigned. This seal now deals 36% weapon damage on every swing, and deals substantially less judgement damage.
PvE - Buff. Seal of Vengeance / Corruption is the new PvE seal. Numbers coming in from the PTR suggest between a 10 - 20% increase in DPS. Numbers on SoComm have been underwhelming - its good for mobs that die fast, but in a majority of situations SoV/SoC will be better. SoV/SoC stacks are coming from judgements on the PTR now as well (they dont in 3.1).
PvP - Buff & Nerf. SoC/SoV is doing more damage than Blood/Martyr with 5 stacks, but less without. With the buffs to resilience in 3.2, it will be a buff against high resil/high health targets since you will have enough time to get up to 5 stacks. SoC/SoV ticks can now crit as well, which helps. Against low health/low resil targets its a bit of a nerf since we won't have the same burst as we did with SoB/SoM.

- Shield of Righteousness: Now deals 100% of shield block value as damage instead of 130%. In addition, the benefit from additional block value this ability gains is now subject to diminishing returns. Diminishing returns occur once block value exceeds 30 times the player's level and caps the maximum damage benefit from shield block value at 34.5 times the player's level.
PvE - Buff. With the changes to block in 3.2, the damage comes out to be about the same, but this ability now generates now generates additional threat, so a buff overall.
PvP - No change

- Ardent Defender: Redesigned. Any damage that takes the paladin below 35% health is reduced. This reduction applies only to the portion that pushes the paladin below 35% health (example: a paladin at 50% health takes a 40% hit; the first 15% hits as normal while the next 25% is reduced). In addition, once every 2 minutes an attack that would have killed the paladin will fail to kill, and instead heal the paladin for up to 10/20/30% of maximum health depending on the paladin's defense rating (example: a paladin with defense equal to only 5 times his or her level will receive no healing from the talent, while a paladin who is immune to critical strikes from boss creatures through defense will receive the maximum amount).
PvE - Huge Buff. Its now like a Cheat Death and and automatic Last Stand rolled into one. Awesome change
PvP - Huge Buff. As per PvE, this is an aswesome change. Especially given that most players go for your main, if you're spec'd prot you're going to love this.

- Art of War: Now only applies to melee critical hits, but will make your next Flash of Light or Exorcism instant. In addition, this talent now provides notification in the floating combat text when it activates.
PvE - Nerf. Judgements will now be considered melee hits, so they should now be able to proc this along with CS and DS. Although this is offset by the cast time of Exorcism, which means you'll have to choose between doing DPS or Healing.
PvP - Buff. Now we have the chance for instant Exorcisms against players, and more burst = good. RNG dependent though.

Crusader Strike: Damage reduced to 75% weapon damage to match the new 4-second cooldown. Mana cost reduced to 5% of base mana.
PvE - Buff. CS does slightly more damage over a 12 second time frame, provided you can cast it every 4 secs with no GCD clashes.
PvP - Nerf. Reduction in upfront burst.

Vindication: Redesigned. Now lowers target attack power, is consistent and does not stack with Demoralizing Shout.
PvE- Buff. This talent is now useful again in PvE, giving warriors & druids a chance to do more DPS / use other abilities.
PvP - Nerf. No longer scales against opponents.

Let the discussions begin!

Cheers,
S.

[Fat Tire]

Great stuff Stealthy!

Aye I believe Rets will be better off, but they lose their burst which puts a ton of pressure on whatever they are fighting PvP wise. A solo ret I believe will have a harder time against classes that can kite since the Ret cant blow them up anymore if gives the kiting classes an easier escape. No idea how it will affect boxing Rets.

[mefaircloth]

Hmm..reading this is motivating me to try it. I may do a 5 pally team as my next try.

Mark

[Stealthy]

Hmm..reading this is motivating me to try it. I may do a 5 pally team as my next try.

Mark

Having levelled a team of DK's to 80, I can honestly say I'm having a lot more fun levelling my pallies.

Interesting side note - with the heirloom shoulders (+10% exp gain) I was able to hit outlands at 68 and not have any issues worrying about running out of quests. I just hit 71 last night and have done about 2/3 of the quests in Borean Tundra, and only a handful of quests in Howling Fjord. Definitely a worthwhile investment if you can get them.

Cheers,
S.

[Tdog]

I pretty much agree with everything you mentioned in your list of 3.2 changes. As far as exorcism goes in a PvP situation I'd probably just use it while the target is stunned if I needed to use it.

It sucks that JoCom damage got dropped because 4x JoCom was a huge opener in a pvp situation since it always crit with stuns and incapcitates. Basically I would...

HoJ, 4x JoCom 1x JoR, 4x Crusader Strike 1x Shield of Righteouness, 5x Auto attack + several SoCom procs.

Basically killed anyone including very well geared tanks. For extremely well geared tanks I sometimes had to use a round of Divine Storm but still, that's a ton of burst right there. Hopefully JoCom crits are still something that hurts. ;(

[Dawnstrider]

New guy here with a few questions on your talent build. I just barely got my first team, 4 DK's to 80 and am now workin on my 4 pally team so I am curious to know why you specced the way you did on most of your team. I have always played a Protection or a holy paladin, solo. So I dont know a whole lot about ret, but from what I know, Heart of the crusader, once fully stacked, will not stack with further debuffs from other paladins. So wouldnt it be more useful to put one point in the talent on each of your paladins and then when you judge, assuming you all judge at the same time, it would stack fully and you would pick up 2 more talent points to put somewhere else?

The same would go for Judgements of the Wise. Replenishment does not stack, it just refreshes. So it seems it would be better to put 1 point in the tallent on each pally and pick up another 2 talent points there.Unless of coarse Im missing something. In which case its comething obvious becuase those are always the things I miss :)

Sorry for the wall of text.

[Multibocks]

It doesnt "stack" like you think it does. One debuff is either +1crit, +2 or +3. That's it. So if one guy specs only one point into it, everyone gets +1. If all 5 guys spec 1point into it, everyone only gets +1. You need at least one of them to spec into it all the way.

edit: what you are missing on replenishment is that for the pally that is judging he gets a guaranteed 25% base mana back. That's a LOT and ensure you arent oom all the time (well with your other buffs.) So, yes, all rets need to spec it.

[Dawnstrider]

See. I told ya it would be something obvious. lol

[Ughmahedhurtz]

[edit] lol...I'm slow today. :P

[Fat Tire]

I am not liking the look of these ret changes at all and after reading ghostcrawlers new posts I am even more discouraged.

[Stealthy]

I am not liking the look of these ret changes at all and after reading ghostcrawlers new posts I am even more discouraged.

For those who aren't aware, on the latest PTR build the change to SoV/SoC means that the dot is only stacking on white hits - this means for Rets using a slow two hander you're looking at about 15 secs to get to a full stack...way too long in PvP, and has actually turned out to be a nerf for PvE as well.

However it turns out the SoComm is double proc'ing on judgements (but only within a 5 yard range), which means its more viable for PvP now.

Given the shitstorm this has ignited on the WoW forums, I'm pretty sure there will be more changes before 3.2 goes live.

Cheers,
S.

[Fat Tire]

I am not liking the look of these ret changes at all and after reading ghostcrawlers new posts I am even more discouraged.Given the shitstorm this has ignited on the WoW forums, I'm pretty sure there will be more changes before 3.2 goes live.

Cheers,
S.I hope so stealthy. I also hope that they dont change it to affect players only. I hate that shit .

[Stealthy]

Two things I think would make the changes much more palatable (pun intended :P) to the paladin community:

- Allow crusader strikes to stack the SoV/SoC dot.
- Buff the damage of SoComm by about 10-20% to make it truly viable in PvP again.

This would be pretty straight forward for Blizz to implement and doesnt require a major reworking of any current abilities...

Cheers,
S.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

- Allow crusader strikes to stack the SoV/SoC dot.

Ya know, it's funny. They change the judgements so they have zero range and then nerf SoC to white hits. Just makes no sense unless they're trying to nerf pallies INTO. THE. GROUND. /shrug

With the melee-only judgements and cast time on exorcism, I'm very curious to see how my DPS does on elites. Honestly, considering how much burst pallyX5 does, I'm not worried about single non-elite targets.

[ihustlepancakes]

so ive recently ding'd my first 5-box set to 60, and ive found so far thanks to this guide, i only have one real problem.

loot macro plz?

[Stealthy]

so ive recently ding'd my first 5-box set to 60, and ive found so far thanks to this guide, i only have one real problem.

loot macro plz?

You can't macro looting (would open the door for botting). Closest you can get is to bind a key to 'Interact with target' on each toon and then have them assist your main and press the key.

Cheers,
S.

[ihustlepancakes]

haha awh, thats disappointing.
and no particular way to say.. random target corpses? thatd be enough, have autoloot on, random target and interact?

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Welp, the girls are 80. Normal instances are such a steamroll with this group. Exception is bosses like the elemental in Gundrak. That damned AoE poison crap just hurts. Now to finish up the other zones for money. :D

http://ugh.scaredsheep.com/wow/80girls_small.jpg

[Stealthy]

Gratz on 80!

I'm not far behind...74 now and should ding 75 tonight - hello De-raged Waraxe (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=41816) and Links of the Terrified Deity (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=41932). ;)

Cheers,
S.

[ElectronDF]

Welp, the girls are 80. Normal instances are such a steamroll with this group. Exception is bosses like the elemental in Gundrak. That damned AoE poison crap just hurts. Now to finish up the other zones for money. :D


Am I missing something...Can't you just have everyone cleanse themselves? I haven't been in Gundrak, so I don't know that boss. Is it a poison DOT or like a flamestrike AOE or what? I have 2 of my pallies with holy light glyph so they heal 20% to everyone. It isn't much, but if you are healing anyway. I just was wondering what type of things I should look out for. Also, I hope that my shammy (4 pallies and 1 shammy) will help with a poison/disease totem and/or nature resist.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Am I missing something...Can't you just have everyone cleanse themselves? I haven't been in Gundrak, so I don't know that boss. Is it a poison DOT or like a flamestrike AOE or what? I have 2 of my pallies with holy light glyph so they heal 20% to everyone. It isn't much, but if you are healing anyway. I just was wondering what type of things I should look out for. Also, I hope that my shammy (4 pallies and 1 shammy) will help with a poison/disease totem and/or nature resist.
http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=29573

That's the boss (or half of him). He drops these puddles of goo that do nature damage if you stand in them. And since he spams just about everyone in the group randomly with 'em every second, sometimes it's difficult to be able to stand there long enough to DPS with puddles all over. :P I've some ideas on movement once I stack the pallies a bit but it's just one of those resists that paladins don't have. :) The entire rest of the instance was a complete steamroll.

[Mamut]

http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=29573

That's the boss (or half of him). He drops these puddles of goo that do nature damage if you stand in them. And since he spams just about everyone in the group randomly with 'em every second, sometimes it's difficult to be able to stand there long enough to DPS with puddles all over. :P I've some ideas on movement once I stack the pallies a bit but it's just one of those resists that paladins don't have. :) The entire rest of the instance was a complete steamroll.


My pallies are dual specced holy, for that boss i spread them out like i would a shaman group, then i Judge/Holy Shock/Exorcism the boss down. Yes it takes twice as long but its safe. Also useful for other bosses that have too much AoE and no enrage timer.

Just a thought.

[Stealthy]

http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=29573

That's the boss (or half of him). He drops these puddles of goo that do nature damage if you stand in them. And since he spams just about everyone in the group randomly with 'em every second, sometimes it's difficult to be able to stand there long enough to DPS with puddles all over. :P I've some ideas on movement once I stack the pallies a bit but it's just one of those resists that paladins don't have. :) The entire rest of the instance was a complete steamroll.

Ran this last night (non-heroic) with my 76 pallies with a mix of greens & blues. As you said it was a steamroll except for the elemental boss. My strat for this boss was pretty simple:
Phase one (stone guardian form) : tank and spank
Phase two (water ele form): dps down, tried (only somewhat successfully) to stay out of the pools - divine shield when alts health was at 30%, heal, continue to dps
Phase three (stone guardian form): back to tank and spank
Phase four (water ele form): blow trinkets, dps down - self cast lay on hands when alts health at 30%

Finished the fight on about 60% health.

Drops from the bosses were crap, but got several nice quest upgrades:
For Posterity - Ring of Foul Mojo / Solid Platinum Band
One of a Kind - Trollkickers
Gal'darah Must Pay - Clasp of the Fallen Demi-God

Cheers,
S.

[Stealthy]

I've posted a spammable ret dps macro here for those interested:

http://www.dual-boxing.com/showpost.php?p=219281&postcount=80

Cheers,
S.

[Dawnstrider]

"Divine Sacrifice / Divine Guardian - I am not a fan of Divine Sacrifice for an all paladin team as I use Divine Storm as a group heal and having all that damage go to one toon defeats that purpose, I'll explain more on this when I write up my section on Heroics. Divine Guardian is however quite nice for the increased effects to Sacred Shield. More passive mititagation is always a good thing, especially when you're not running with a dedicated healer."


I have a question about the statement above. It sounds as tho you are using Divine Sacrifice with only one pally. What are the consequences of using it with every pally at the same time? Would it split any damage taken among every member of the group (that has the buff on) ??

[Multibocks]

Err not sure how that would turn out 150% of group damage is redirected to one player, so I would think that each player would take 150% of damage and therefore die.

P.S. Divine Sacrifice is supposed to be used in conjuction with Divine Shield as Raid rets use it all the time and 150% of raid damage would instantly kill the ret in most circumstances. So look at this way: You could save Divine Shield for all members to use it at once or you could rotate Divine Shield + Sacrifice on each ret such that the damage to a group is more even and manageable and hopefully your divine storm will overcome the amount of health that wasnt absorbed by divine sacrifice. Im sure someone could theory math it out but head math tells me that it will be better. 10Secs of everyone invulnerable OR 40 secs of group damage mitigation(everyone takes 40% less damage and one player is invulnerable). I think at 40% less damage the goo would be a LOT more manageable.

Cant be 50 secs because you cant DS the tank or the group gets killed. (obviously ;))

edit: also 150% isnt counted until the paladin starts taking damage, so its basically a 10 sec 40% less damage buff to the whole group with no drawbacks.

[Dawnstrider]

Ok. Thanks for the reply. I thought I was onto a way to split the damage among our all pally group. MAybe I"ll look into doing it with Hand of Sacrifice. next. I just want a way to make someone do enough damage to kill the whole group before anyone goes down.

[Stealthy]

Err not sure how that would turn out 150% of group damage is redirected to one player, so I would think that each player would take 150% of damage and therefore die.

P.S. Divine Sacrifice is supposed to be used in conjuction with Divine Shield as Raid rets use it all the time and 150% of raid damage would instantly kill the ret in most circumstances. So look at this way: You could save Divine Shield for all members to use it at once or you could rotate Divine Shield + Sacrifice on each ret such that the damage to a group is more even and manageable and hopefully your divine storm will overcome the amount of health that wasnt absorbed by divine sacrifice. Im sure someone could theory math it out but head math tells me that it will be better. 10Secs of everyone invulnerable OR 40 secs of group damage mitigation(everyone takes 40% less damage and one player is invulnerable). I think at 40% less damage the goo would be a LOT more manageable.

Cant be 50 secs because you cant DS the tank or the group gets killed. (obviously ;))

edit: also 150% isnt counted until the paladin starts taking damage, so its basically a 10 sec 40% less damage buff to the whole group with no drawbacks.

I find for Pally 5 box groups, you use either situationally. Sacrifice & shield is good for encounters where there is sustained AOE damage (e.g. puddles from the Elemental boss in Gundrak), whereas 5 x Divine Shield works well against burst AOE (e.g. shadow axe from Ingvar in Utgarde Keep or exploding corpses from Trollgore in Drak'Tharon Keep).

Cheers,
S.

[Multibocks]

Ok so my paladins are 80 and lets just say i'm none too impressed. I run 1 prot and 4 ret, they are wearing mostly deadly gear (did close to 100 AV victories on each /wrists) and I can so far only kill Trollgore and the last guy in Draktheron. Granted they are only using De-Rage Waraxe for the main and I am actively searching for Titansteel Destroyers (no one makes these anymore), but the dps leaves a lot to be desired. Trollgore takes 1min20secs to kill which is 4 x slower than my shaman (who are obviously more geared). However the problem I am running into is mana.

Take the frost boss for example. I get him down to about 120k and my guys are OOM. Everyone. Including the prot because his only heals are from Divine Storm (which is really all he needs.) So I switched all slaves to the glyph that gives 8% mana back when you judge with Seal of Command active. (Used to use the glyph that gave 12 expertise when using Seal of Vindication.) Even using this they are still running oom. It's frustrating really. How do they expect this class to play if they are always oom?

I run the Niley's superlong macro for Ret PvE dpsing and I also use Divine Shield/Divine Sacrifice on round robin to reduce group damage. At this point I am considering shelving the paladin group and going back full time to 5xshaman for pvp slaughter. Oh and that's another thing. Holy crap can mages kite the everliving shit out of your group and thats with DS, Hand of Freedom, Cleanse. I F*cking hate mages. They make you look so stupid.

Anyways, I just wanted to say I wasnt expecting awesomesauce from the getgo, but considering most of my gear is ileve213 and three have i226 helms(PvE BoE), I just dont really see how it can get much better. Maybe using pvp gear aint all that and that's my problem. They need more mana regen as a group and I just dont see how it can get any better than the judgement talent + the glyph.

p.s. mad props to the guy who used 5 paladins to down H ToC. I see now how truly insane that is.

p.p.s. anyone notice that paladins are mad aggro? Halfway through fight Im having to taunt shit off them and this is with a 35k unbuffed health tank. I shouldnt have that much trouble. Yes I have the right ret talents, it's the same cookie cutter one everyone takes.

[Multibocks]

Oh and having to eat after most 5 mob trash pulls sucks too =(

edit: forgot to mention slaves have 21k health buffed with kings.

[Stealthy]

Ok so my paladins are 80 and lets just say i'm none too impressed. I run 1 prot and 4 ret, they are wearing mostly deadly gear (did close to 100 AV victories on each /wrists) and I can so far only kill Trollgore and the last guy in Draktheron. Granted they are only using De-Rage Waraxe for the main and I am actively searching for Titansteel Destroyers (no one makes these anymore), but the dps leaves a lot to be desired. Trollgore takes 1min20secs to kill which is 4 x slower than my shaman (who are obviously more geared). However the problem I am running into is mana.

Take the frost boss for example. I get him down to about 120k and my guys are OOM. Everyone. Including the prot because his only heals are from Divine Storm (which is really all he needs.) So I switched all slaves to the glyph that gives 8% mana back when you judge with Seal of Command active. (Used to use the glyph that gave 12 expertise when using Seal of Vindication.) Even using this they are still running oom. It's frustrating really. How do they expect this class to play if they are always oom?

I run the Niley's superlong macro for Ret PvE dpsing and I also use Divine Shield/Divine Sacrifice on round robin to reduce group damage. At this point I am considering shelving the paladin group and going back full time to 5xshaman for pvp slaughter. Oh and that's another thing. Holy crap can mages kite the everliving shit out of your group and thats with DS, Hand of Freedom, Cleanse. I F*cking hate mages. They make you look so stupid.

Anyways, I just wanted to say I wasnt expecting awesomesauce from the getgo, but considering most of my gear is ileve213 and three have i226 helms(PvE BoE), I just dont really see how it can get much better. Maybe using pvp gear aint all that and that's my problem. They need more mana regen as a group and I just dont see how it can get any better than the judgement talent + the glyph.

p.s. mad props to the guy who used 5 paladins to down H ToC. I see now how truly insane that is.

p.p.s. anyone notice that paladins are mad aggro? Halfway through fight Im having to taunt shit off them and this is with a 35k unbuffed health tank. I shouldnt have that much trouble. Yes I have the right ret talents, it's the same cookie cutter one everyone takes.

Can you link your armory for your prot and ret spec'd guys...? I'd like to check out your spec, and more importantly your glyphs...

When I started, my rets were in the pvp blue crafted set...sad I know! But mana has never been that big an issue for me.

Anyway, some of the following may be "captain obvious" material, but I usually find it's good to make sure you have the basics covered first, and then look at some of other issues in depth....so here goes!

1. DON'T USE SEAL OF COMMAND. It's bad...really bad. Even for PvP (although it's getting a buff next patch). Instead use Seal of Vengeance / Corruption. Once you land a full stack of dots you'll be doing way more DPS than you ever would with Command.

2. Sacred Shield should always be up...ALWAYS! Ok...bit of a no brainer, but its easy to forget to re-apply it. You should also have 2 points in Divine Guardian so SS will last for 60 secs and the damage absorbed is buffed by 20%. Apart from the damage shield, it also gives you a HoT for the same amount healed by FoL over 12 secs, and increases the chance for FoL to crit by 50%. And of course FoL crits proc Sheath of Light (which SS also scales with btw), so you can end up with 2 HoTs going at once for each cast....this spell is AWESOMESAUCE!!

3. Divine Plea - should always be up on your main (if you have 2 points in Guarded By The Light). Use on your rets just before combat ends or inbetween combat (becuase the reduces the effectiveness of your heals by 50%).

4. Judgements - Light / Wisdom / Justice and repeat for whichever two you want to make sure land. Judgements don't stack anymore, so you'll only ever see these three debuffs on the target. Very important to note - while judgements cannot be blocked or parried, they can still miss if you are not hit capped. A missed judgement is VERY bad for rets, becuase you will miss the proc from Judgements of the Wise (which all your rets should have 3 points in), which means missing out on a big chunk of mana back.

5. Generating Threat - Apart from the obvious one of making sure Righteous Fury is active (especially recasting after a wipe) you can get a quick lead on agro by pulling with Hand of Reckoning and immediately following up with Avenger's Shield. Consecration and Hammer of the Righteous (which you should also have glyphed) are essential for group pulls. Shield of Righteousness and Hold Shield for single target threat. Prot pallies spell power is based on strength, so if you're fidning theat is a problem, you can try gemming / enchanting for more strength. A note on Divine Storm - for group pulls divine storm crits can pull adds if used too early. I set my rotation up so that my main gets off consecration and Hammer of the Righteous before Divine Storm gets cast, which lets him get a handy threat lead...

6. Healing - never heal with your main if possible, since when you cast spells, you can't block or parry.

Hope this helps... :)

Cheers,
S.

[Multibocks]

Can you link your armory for your prot and ret spec'd guys...? I'd like to check out your spec, and more importantly your glyphs...

When I started, my rets were in the pvp blue crafted set...sad I know! But mana has never been that big an issue for me.

Anyway, some of the following may be "captain obvious" material, but I usually find it's good to make sure you have the basics covered first, and then look at some of other issues in depth....so here goes!

1. DON'T USE SEAL OF COMMAND. It's bad...really bad. Even for PvP (although it's getting a buff next patch). Instead use Seal of Vengeance / Corruption. Once you land a full stack of dots you'll be doing way more DPS than you ever would with Command.
I use Vengeance.


2. Sacred Shield should always be up...ALWAYS! Ok...bit of a no brainer, but its easy to forget to re-apply it. You should also have 2 points in Divine Guardian so SS will last for 60 secs and the damage absorbed is buffed by 20%. Apart from the damage shield, it also gives you a HoT for the same amount healed by FoL over 12 secs, and increases the chance for FoL to crit by 50%. And of course FoL crits proc Sheath of Light (which SS also scales with btw), so you can end up with 2 HoTs going at once for each cast....this spell is AWESOMESAUCE!!
Ok for some reason I forget to use this, I'll have to work it in!


3. Divine Plea - should always be up on your main (if you have 2 points in Guarded By The Light). Use on your rets just before combat ends or inbetween combat (becuase the reduces the effectiveness of your heals by 50%).
Yep do this.


4. Judgements - Light / Wisdom / Justice and repeat for whichever two you want to make sure land. Judgements don't stack anymore, so you'll only ever see these three debuffs on the target. Very important to note - while judgements cannot be blocked or parried, they can still miss if you are not hit capped. A missed judgement is VERY bad for rets, becuase you will miss the proc from Judgements of the Wise (which all your rets should have 3 points in), which means missing out on a big chunk of mana back.
Yea I do this too, sometimes I wonder if they miss because they are all being cast at the same time and WoW has a problem with it since two judge wisdom to make sure its always up. My guys are very close to hit cap for heroics and I'm working on it.


5. Generating Threat - Apart from the obvious one of making sure Righteous Fury is active (especially recasting after a wipe) you can get a quick lead on agro by pulling with Hand of Reckoning and immediately following up with Avenger's Shield. Consecration and Hammer of the Righteous (which you should also have glyphed) are essential for group pulls. Shield of Righteousness and Hold Shield for single target threat. Prot pallies spell power is based on strength, so if you're fidning theat is a problem, you can try gemming / enchanting for more strength. A note on Divine Storm - for group pulls divine storm crits can pull adds if used too early. I set my rotation up so that my main gets off consecration and Hammer of the Righteous before Divine Storm gets cast, which lets him get a handy threat lead...
Been doing this too.


6. Healing - never heal with your main if possible, since when you cast spells, you can't block or parry.
Yep Im aware of this too.

Tank (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kil'jaeden&n=Pestilencê)
Ret Dps (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kil'jaeden&n=Beelybob)

I'll fix the ret's talents to include two more in prot for Sacred Shield and dont pay attention to his rings, boots or belt, lol they are the last upgrades before I consider them okish.

[ElectronDF]

You can go ahead and call me stupid right now. Back in the day (2-4 years ago), casters used to complain that they ran out of mana. I asked them how much spirit they had and they laughed at me and said spirit is useless. I said back, you are the one running out of mana with no spirit, not me. They all wanted crit, spellpower and such. Fine, but if you have enough DPS, maybe you can use some spirit instead.

My idea is 96% of your spells can use either attack power and/or spellpower. So if you put on 2-3 int plate items, you get MP5 (which your is 19, no wonder you have no regen, you literally have 000000 regen). The int never hurts, the SP can be used in your spells and you get MP5 for free. All should help. You can make fun of me having a ret with a few SP items, but I am not the one running out of mana. You can even use a gear manager (built in or Outfitter) to swap out when you need more mana (bosses and such). I use 1 prot, 3 rets and shammy, the mana tide totem is pretty nice. If you are okay on health, you might set up for them to use a mana pot.

Also playstyle might come into play. If you use all your high mana attack all the time, you might not need to do that. Again, if you are okay on enrages or DPS in general, you might just take a few high mana attacks out and only use them when you need them. Just my 2 copper.

[Multibocks]

Well I seemed to have solved some of the mana problems by using sacred shield. Crit heals heal more and therefore I have to heal less and that means more mana. I no longer have to stop and wait for mana unless I wipe. Oh and one other thing, since we are all paladins my in game combat mana regen is 92, so getting another piece that may have 19 on it seems kinda silly when it will barely help me in doing damage.

P.S. Anyone notice that there are no buyable epic rings with str, sta and crit? Weird.

P.P.S. How are people handling anti melee bosses? Krystallus, Skadi, and that elemental boss come to mind. Kinda ruins being able to farm the daily. Jamba follow isnt helping me much when Im trying to run from my slaves, lol. NONO GET AWAY FROM ME! AAAAAHHHHH!!!

editx3: One thing I forgot to admit, when I first tried Draktheron Heroic I had just bought all my paladins Titansteel Destroyers. I didnt realize there 2h mace skill was 330, so that's why the first few instance runs were so bad. They are just now getting close to 400. And the reason I bought the maces is that no one will let you PuG ToC Heroic with a blue weapon. No one. They will all laugh at you.

[Stealthy]

You can go ahead and call me stupid right now. Back in the day (2-4 years ago), casters used to complain that they ran out of mana. I asked them how much spirit they had and they laughed at me and said spirit is useless. I said back, you are the one running out of mana with no spirit, not me. They all wanted crit, spellpower and such. Fine, but if you have enough DPS, maybe you can use some spirit instead.

My idea is 96% of your spells can use either attack power and/or spellpower. So if you put on 2-3 int plate items, you get MP5 (which your is 19, no wonder you have no regen, you literally have 000000 regen). The int never hurts, the SP can be used in your spells and you get MP5 for free. All should help. You can make fun of me having a ret with a few SP items, but I am not the one running out of mana. You can even use a gear manager (built in or Outfitter) to swap out when you need more mana (bosses and such). I use 1 prot, 3 rets and shammy, the mana tide totem is pretty nice. If you are okay on health, you might set up for them to use a mana pot.

Also playstyle might come into play. If you use all your high mana attack all the time, you might not need to do that. Again, if you are okay on enrages or DPS in general, you might just take a few high mana attacks out and only use them when you need them. Just my 2 copper.

I understand where you are coming from, but IMO Prot & Ret pallies should not be running out of mana mid-fights with the correct use of our abilities.

In combat your Prot main will be getting mana back from 5 main sources:

1. Divine Plea - 25% mana back over 15 secs (refreshed with every swing if you have 2 points in Guarded by The Light) - should always be up
2. Blessing of Sanct - 2% mana back from any dodge, parry or block (helped by holy shield & 3 points in Redoubt) - should always be up.
3. Judgement of Wisdom - chance for 2% base mana back with each hit - should always be up
4. Blessing of Widsom - 92MP5 - should always be up
5. Heals from your rets - with 2 points in Spiritual Attunement you'll be getting 10% of healing received back as mana.

In combat your Rets will be getting mana back from 4 main sources:

1. Judgements - 3 points in judgements of the wise = 25% mana back every 8 secs plus 1% back every 5 secs from replenishment
2. Judgement of Wisdom - chance for 2% base mana back with each hit - should always be up
3. Blessing of Widsom - 92MP5 - should always be up
4. Divine Plea - situationally used becuase it cuts heals by 50% (since your rets are the only ones healing) - I use it whenever it's up outside of combat.

Outside of these, in a pinch you can also use Runic Mana Potions - 4.2-4.4K back (about 75% of mana bar back), and Lay on Hands will give back 1950 mana (about 30% of mana bar back).

Hope this helps...

Cheers,
S.

[Stealthy]

Well I seemed to have solved some of the mana problems by using sacred shield. Crit heals heal more and therefore I have to heal less and that means more mana. I no longer have to stop and wait for mana unless I wipe. Oh and one other thing, since we are all paladins my in game combat mana regen is 92, so getting another piece that may have 19 on it seems kinda silly when it will barely help me in doing damage.

P.S. Anyone notice that there are no buyable epic rings with str, sta and crit? Weird.

P.P.S. How are people handling anti melee bosses? Krystallus, Skadi, and that elemental boss come to mind. Kinda ruins being able to farm the daily. Jamba follow isnt helping me much when Im trying to run from my slaves, lol. NONO GET AWAY FROM ME! AAAAAHHHHH!!!

editx3: One thing I forgot to admit, when I first tried Draktheron Heroic I had just bought all my paladins Titansteel Destroyers. I didnt realize there 2h mace skill was 330, so that's why the first few instance runs were so bad. They are just now getting close to 400. And the reason I bought the maces is that no one will let you PuG ToC Heroic with a blue weapon. No one. They will all laugh at you.

Glad to see it helped. :)

Had a look at your guys - your tank is pretty well geared already, i'd suggest dropping the Spiritual Attunement glyph for the Hammer of the Righteous - it really helps in group pulls. Talent-wise, I picked up Persuit of Justice on my tank (since it's pointless having it on your rets and not your tank), didn't bother with seal of command, and put 4 points into Divinity which makes healing my tank a bit easier.

There is one buyable ring with Stam, Str & Crit...but it's kinda expensive though - Etched Ring of the Kirin Tor :)
Otherwise the best buyable rings for rets are Surge Needle Ring and Greatring of Collision.

Anti melee bosses are difficult thats for sure. I don't use the strobe following in Jamba, only the follow after combat, so I can control the follows in Combat. On bosses that like to whirlwind (Skadi, Gal'darah), or that have directional AoE (Ingvar, Anub'arak) I usually position my guys like so - M = main, B = Boss, A = Alts, both main and alts are facing the boss:

[M]
[B]
[A]

That way when they start to whirlwind I just hit the down arrow, and everyone starts moving backwards, so you end up with:

[M]
[B]


[A] <---now out of Whirlwind range

Both Skadi and Gal'darah are tauntable through their whirlwinds, so if they start going after your alts, taunt them back. When the whirlwind has finished, I hit the 'Interact with Target' key adn the alts run up and start attacking the boss again.

The elemental boss in Gundrak is a major pain in the ass - rotating Divine Sacrifice / Divine Shields are the way to go there. I haven't tried Kystallus yet, will have a crack tonight and let you know how I go.

Just another note about 'Interact with Target' - if you're not using it, you definitely should be. Not only for the situations above, but it is the BEST AOE FEAR RECOVERY WE HAVE. The range on Interact with Target is much much greater than follow, which means after an AOE fear, just hit the mapped key and your guys will all run back (providing there is nothing blocking their way) and start attacking the mob. You don't have to waste time gathering up toons that are out of range of follow. Same for bosses that do knockbacks as well...its pure win for melee classes!

Cheers,
S.

[mebben]

Awesome thread, thanks for all the good info! :)

I recently started a 5 paladin team that just dinged 62-61. So far I've been glancing at Tdogs setup and tried something similar. My biggest issue so far is healing. I read somewhere that ppl suggested VuhDo + ISboxer mouseover regions...

I am atm using innerspace + isboxer, but I haven't been able to find a good guide how to do that, if that now is the best way to heal... atm I've just hotkey'd my slaves to heal the tank and heal self with a modifier. Havent tried the outlands instances, but I doubt that will do.

[Multibocks]

I use interact with target, I just forget that it works from a long range. Thanks for reminding me, fear bombs in WG were really annoying. Oh and I dont have a problem with trash hitting my rets, so I'll forgo the glyph. I did finish VH for my first heroic completion on my rets yesterday, but I got cocky this morning and didnt do my Divine Sacrifice/Divine Shield rotation and wiped. Sigh.

Oh and SoC on my tank was an accident when I did his talents a long time ago, I just never went back to fix it lol. Maybe tonight I'll take care of that. Oh and the second ring you linked for buyable says BoP on the tooltip ;)

[mefaircloth]

I am having fun with my paladins. I started with TDog's set up. Later I copied Stealthy's macro for /click and saw a nice dps increase. (could have been gear upgrades that were happening at the same time, or just the stopcasting/excorsism part, I'm not sure) My gear is still pretty crappy so there are only a couple of heroics I can clear.

PS. Stealthy I am Horde in the Ruin BG as well, we may meet in a battleground.

Lördnecte (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bleeding+Hollow&n=L%C3%B6rdnecte)
Lördthelryn (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bleeding+Hollow&n=L%C3%B6rdthelryn)
Lördantheol (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bleeding+Hollow&n=L%C3%B6rdantheol)
Lörddelaniel (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bleeding+Hollow&n=L%C3%B6rddelaniel)
Lördithanas (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bleeding+Hollow&n=L%C3%B6rdithanas)

(http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bleeding+Hollow&n=L%C3%B6rdmeledor)

[Stealthy]

I use interact with target, I just forget that it works from a long range. Thanks for reminding me, fear bombs in WG were really annoying. Oh and I dont have a problem with trash hitting my rets, so I'll forgo the glyph. I did finish VH for my first heroic completion on my rets yesterday, but I got cocky this morning and didnt do my Divine Sacrifice/Divine Shield rotation and wiped. Sigh.

Oh and SoC on my tank was an accident when I did his talents a long time ago, I just never went back to fix it lol. Maybe tonight I'll take care of that. Oh and the second ring you linked for buyable says BoP on the tooltip ;)

Yeah don't know what I was thinking when I linked that second ring...what I should have linked was this - Titanium Impact Band. Also there is a blue BoE ring that gives better DPS that many epic rings when gemmed with an epic +str gem - Ring of Scarlet Shadows.

Cheers,
S.

[Stealthy]

I am having fun with my paladins. I started with TDog's set up. Later I copied Stealthy's macro for /click and saw a nice dps increase. (could have been gear upgrades that were happening at the same time, or just the stopcasting/excorsism part, I'm not sure) My gear is still pretty crappy so there are only a couple of heroics I can clear.

PS. Stealthy I am Horde in the Ruin BG as well, we may meet in a battleground.

Lördnecte (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bleeding+Hollow&n=L%C3%B6rdnecte)
Lördthelryn (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bleeding+Hollow&n=L%C3%B6rdthelryn)
Lördantheol (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bleeding+Hollow&n=L%C3%B6rdantheol)
Lörddelaniel (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bleeding+Hollow&n=L%C3%B6rddelaniel)
Lördithanas (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bleeding+Hollow&n=L%C3%B6rdithanas)

(http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bleeding+Hollow&n=L%C3%B6rdmeledor)

Good to see another Pally boxer on Ruin!

If you're looking for a gear planner, have a look at a program called Rawr (http://www.codeplex.com/Rawr) - its a great tool for comparing gear for either your tank or ret pally, and seeing the potential tanking or dps upgrade, and lets you filter the gear suggestions by source (Heroics, Emblems, PvP, Raids, etc) - i.e. you can get it to display the best tanking gear from Heroics and Emblems only...very handy.

Cheers,
S.

[Multibocks]

So I pretty much clear the first three bosses in Gundrak, the first boss in DTK, and all of VH. Is there another boss you have found easy to put down Stealthy? I tried Krystallus in HoS and I need to stop jamba follow before that one or he one shots my group during the shatter phase. Other than that I havent tried anything else. Oh and I refuse to do UK. I have probably cleared that dungeon 200 times and I am sick to death of the place.

[Stealthy]

So I pretty much clear the first three bosses in Gundrak, the first boss in DTK, and all of VH. Is there another boss you have found easy to put down Stealthy? I tried Krystallus in HoS and I need to stop jamba follow before that one or he one shots my group during the shatter phase. Other than that I havent tried anything else. Oh and I refuse to do UK. I have probably cleared that dungeon 200 times and I am sick to death of the place.

CoS is pretty easy, just don't worry about the timed run until your rets get geared. All the bosses are pretty much tank n spank. For the last boss, you'll just need to position your rets so that they attack Mal'ganis from behind to avoid the Carrion Swarm (frontal AoE).

The rest of DTK shouldnt be too bad...
For the 2nd boss in DTK (Novos), the easy way to do it is to position your guys up against the wall opposite the stairs - you will get mininal adds that way. Once you've killed the 4 shield wardens, refresh sacred shield and run in and engage the boss (make sure you have frost resistance aura up). When Novos starts to cast blizzard have everyone (including the tank) cast FoL on themselves - the heal from FoL and the subsuqent HoT from Sacred Shield should be enough to counter the blizzard. Other than that, its a tank n' spank. Note - Novos drops the best non-epic DPS plate for rets Breastplate of Undeath.
King Dred is optional, but if want to kill him I've found tanking him half way up the stairs reduces the chance of getting adds during the fight. It also reduces the chance your alts will be feared to some place they can't get back from when you press the 'interact with target' button. The tricky part is his Grevious Bite which puts a bleed effect on your tank that can't be dispelled, and will only go away when the tank is healed to full. You can divine shield out of it, or use Lay on Hands if you can't heal throught it.
The last boss is easy - sacred shield negates poison cloud, just spam 1,3 &4 keys (not 2 cuz thats the taunt key :D).

Other than that, the first two bosses of H-AN are pretty easy. First boss is a tank n' spank, Consecration and Divine Storm take care of the swarm adds quite nicely. With the second boss, its a matter of attacking, cleansing the AoE poison, and moving out of the acid clouds (main with alts on follow is fine). There's very little trash in this instance so its an easy 2 emblems.

Hope this helps...

Cheers,
S.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

For Dred, you can pull the back 3 raptors out when Dred is on the far side of the tree if you hug the fence. Then you can tank him anywhere and not get an add, ever.

[Multibocks]

Actually I found The Nexus to be very easy. I thought Kerastrasza would kill my guys due to her having a frontal cone AE, but you can cleanse it. So... lots of cleansing in that fight and she tends to knock people away from her, but it's still a win in the end. I didnt even lose anyone fighting her. I'll have to try AN, I really dont care for DTK anymore either. My route for gearing shaman a long time ago was DTK, Gun, UK, UP and VH. Now I really can't stand to be in any of those instances anymore (especially if they have a lot of trash.)

[Multibocks]

Wow, CoS was easy! I did get to infinite corrupter at the 5 min mark. So a free mount to my first slave. Malganis turned out to be as easy as he is for my other groups. Love this instance =)

[Multibocks]

Today the daily was UK and finished it without even dodging the AE from ingvar. Very very easy instance.

[Multibocks]

I think Im going to give up playing these guys after i get their conquest loot all done. It's difficult to find PuG raids for better weapons and gear, I guess too many paladins on my server. My shaman have an easy time getting in PuG raids while my paladins get grilled about achievements and gear. Makes it really hard to get anything decent.

Plus one other thing I dont like and this is the killer: PVP sucks with the rets. Interact with target is nice, but lag makes them run in odd directions or run to the spot where they are no longer. Melee boxing is just not as nice as nuking from orbit. I can most times kill 3 people before a group rushing my shaman can get to them and seeing their comrades fall makes them backpedal. My rets just dont scare anyone, plus I have to get to people before I can start killing. It's kinda fun to wade into melee, but I really enjoy being a turrent that kills anything within 40 yards. PVP with rets just isnt fun.

[Fat Tire]

I think Im going to give up playing these guys after i get their conquest loot all done. It's difficult to find PuG raids for better weapons and gear, I guess too many paladins on my server. My shaman have an easy time getting in PuG raids while my paladins get grilled about achievements and gear. Makes it really hard to get anything decent.

Plus one other thing I dont like and this is the killer: PVP sucks with the rets. Interact with target is nice, but lag makes them run in odd directions or run to the spot where they are no longer. Melee boxing is just not as nice as nuking from orbit. I can most times kill 3 people before a group rushing my shaman can get to them and seeing their comrades fall makes them backpedal. My rets just dont scare anyone, plus I have to get to people before I can start killing. It's kinda fun to wade into melee, but I really enjoy being a turrent that kills anything within 40 yards. PVP with rets just isnt fun.

Pally for PvE, Dks for PvP. The ability to control the fight (DKs) makes them better for melee PvP

[Multibocks]

I just wish that Divine Shield wasnt dispellable. I mean you are already getting hit with -50% damage. Ya, DKs being able to pull people to them makes it a lot easier.

[Stealthy]

I think Im going to give up playing these guys after i get their conquest loot all done. It's difficult to find PuG raids for better weapons and gear, I guess too many paladins on my server. My shaman have an easy time getting in PuG raids while my paladins get grilled about achievements and gear. Makes it really hard to get anything decent.

Plus one other thing I dont like and this is the killer: PVP sucks with the rets. Interact with target is nice, but lag makes them run in odd directions or run to the spot where they are no longer. Melee boxing is just not as nice as nuking from orbit. I can most times kill 3 people before a group rushing my shaman can get to them and seeing their comrades fall makes them backpedal. My rets just dont scare anyone, plus I have to get to people before I can start killing. It's kinda fun to wade into melee, but I really enjoy being a turrent that kills anything within 40 yards. PVP with rets just isnt fun.

I've found pvp on my pallies to be much better with a (glyphed) Hammer of Justice built into my rotation. The glyph gives it 5 extra yards range (15 yards) which means you can use it proactively on priest / locks before coming into range of thier AoE fears, or on shamans before they can TS. if you've taken the Improved HoJ talent, thats one HoJ every 8 secs, and given that it stuns for 6 secs, thats virtually stunlock on an enemy player.
You've also got repentance every 15 secs (great to use against mages since they can't blick out of it) which is a good spell to cast when running to an enemy player, since it will usually force them to trinket, but by which time you should be in range of HoJ which you can follow up with.

Cheers,
S

[Dawnstrider]

Have either of you tried seal of command since 3.2.2 with the chaining it now does Im thinking could be quite good with several paladins at a time doing it. And the patch notes are wrong, they say it procs the chain off of attacks. But the tooltip says it procs off of abilities and attacks. so far Divine Storm and Crusader strike are both confirmed to proc it.

[d0z3rr]

My paladins hit 70 yesterday. I did half of 69 while in Mechanar and Botanica. Botanica was very easy and went smooth.

I dinged at the end of the instance and got the 70 skills. I picked up vengence on my 4 rets. I did some testing in outlands real quick to see which seal was better - vengence or command. I found that command is much better for low health mobs. Unless it was a long battle with a high health boss, vengence cannot hold a candle to command. Not to mention I get 8% mana back when I judge command.

I could see vengence being better on a boss fight where you can actually get 5 stacks going.

I also tried heroic ramps for shits and giggles and could easily see myself clearing that instance. But now that I'm 70 I'll do some quests in northrend and finish netherstorm (never even started it yet!).

[Lyonheart]

Unless you just want to finish outlands for achievements, the quests in Northrend give almost twice the exp and way better loot. Other than " i just want to do all of outland" A player should leave outlands at 68. You have BT and HF starting zones for way better exp and quest rewards.

[d0z3rr]

Ah ok, I figured they might give decent xp in netherstorm still, I haven't done much questing in northrend to remember. Thanks for the info.

[Lyonheart]

I know I saw a post of a post 3.2 ret macro guide ( thought it was click? ) can some one point me to it, my searching has failed me) Or are most using a sequence?

[mebben]

http://www.dual-boxing.com/showpost.php?p=219281&postcount=80

[Lyonheart]

http://www.dual-boxing.com/showpost.php?p=219281&postcount=80

There it is!! Thx!

[mebben]

There it is!! Thx!

No problem, using it myself =)

[Ualaa]

The only advantage of not going to Northrend at 68th is avoiding the collections, a bit more.
With the adjustment of experience needed for Burning Crusade, I usually reach 70th late Blade's Edge or early Netherstorm, with all of Shadowmoon Valley untouched.

I agree, moving to Northrend at 68th is both better gear and more experience per quest.

However, at 80th, the quests in Shadowmoon Valley aren't worth a whole lot of gold.
At 80th, the quests in Icecrown and Storm Peaks are worth a fair bit of gold.
If you're willing to take more time to get to 80th, there will be more gold from quests available.

You could easily hit 71st or 72nd prior to going to Northrend if you did everything in Burning Crusade.
Granted, there will be some annoying collections in Outland which you'll want to pass.
But you'll have the equivalent of a whole zone worth of leveling done before Northrend, which will mean less collections necessary.

I'd personally still go to Northrend at 68th.

[mebben]

I went to Gundrak heroic yesterday with my crew. Had no problems with Sladran, Moorabi or Eck. However, the Drakkari Colossus is mean :( I can get him to second water elemental phase before I die, but that's the best I can do atm. I tried with the +50 resist potions, but I can't say that helped really. The damage you take for all being melee is pretty mean.

Should I just continue to gear up, or am just in need of some good advice? :P

Tank (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Lightbringer&n=Skekraft)
Ret1 (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Lightbringer&n=Skekrafta)
Ret2 (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Lightbringer&n=Skekraftb)
Ret3 (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Lightbringer&n=Skekraftc)
Ret4 (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Lightbringer&n=Skekraftd)

[ghonosyph]

I run my melee team thru this all the time, some general advice tho, set up a master strafé key and do your best to kill the colosus fast. What I do is when fighting the water part just strafe a little bit at a time then spam interact with target , using your heals as much as possible, its basically a kiting motion: dps, move dps move dps move then heal whenever you can, you'll find that you have to pretty much start on one side of the room and strafe crossed it around 2 to 3 times to kill him :)

[mebben]

Ah okay, I'll try that when I get back from work. Thanks for the advice :)

[CplBob]

I didnt want to start a new thread for this so I will ask here :)

I just picked up Hand of Freedom on my 4 Pallys so I can try some PvP. I also have the 100% chance to remove stuns when it is cast talent. So now I am trying to come up with a way to get each toon to cast it on the next. So A goes to B, B to C, C to D and D to A. This way I can take advantage of the stun removal. But so far I can only get my guys to cast it on themselves.

I am using ISBoxer and setup a new mapped key, WoW macro action. In a single step I had four /target (next toon in the sequence above) /cast Hand of Freedom. For some reason this made them target themselves and not the toon in the macro... I tried a few other things to no avail.

So does anyone have any ideas or will I just have to have each toon cast it on himself?

[Ualaa]

Well, if you make a Keymap with a hotkey of choice.
It sends the hotkey to each wow client.
Target can be every pally client.

Then within warcraft create macro's.
Put them on the same keybind as the hotkey.
Each pally will have:

#show Hand of Freedom
/cast [target=Next Pally] Hand of Freedom



Not really sure how to make it work with ISBoxer - wow macro actions.
Have not had much success (read haven't played with them much) yet.
But with the keystroke type action and a wow macro, pretty easy to get your desired result.

[d0z3rr]

I cleared my first northrend instance yesterday - Utgarde. Level 71 pallies. I remember trying this on my PVE team (71) and they failed on the first boss, and not even trash was that easy.

I almost cleared Nexus, I know I can down the dragon just from reading the info on thottbot, but I couldn't get past Grand Magus Telestra, she was EVIL! Anyone have tips for her? I was like "what the hell is going on" the entire (short) fight, then my characters faces just melted instantly.

[d0z3rr]

Do any of you run into this annoyance: when you're trying to turn a boss a certain way, but they keep moving too much?

Skip to about 1:14 in this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhHFs6FzZOQ

It takes me several tries to position ingvar. It was really annoying. Kinda reminds me of when my hunter pets would randomly drag mobs all over the freaking place before settling for one spot.

[Jubber]

Yeah I run into it all the time. I don't know if this is 100% workaround but I find that if I strafe left or right while using W and/or S the boss is less likely to do the dance with me and they will move to where I want them.. If I just use strafe alone or my forward or backward key they will move away from where I am trying to position them.

I know what you mean though I always try to position my guys next to a pillar and to the right or left of ingvar and me out in the open. That way I always eat his twirling axe of death and my pallies are safe. He doesn't always like to throw his axe against a pillar.. Not always the case though as sometimes he does and I wipe or have to blow my shields.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

How much the mobs "bounce" around when you move seems to be entirely dependent on your connection latency. I rarely have this problem in instances but it happens fairly often out in populated zones.

[Stealthy]

I get mob bounce when the mobs tend to move around in fights (e.g. headless horseman).

On most boss pulls though - I head in with my main, wait until the mob settles into position, and then bring the rest of my guys in. Using the Ingvar example, I start like this:



I = Ingvar


M= Main


AAAA = alts

Then pull Ingvar:


I
M


AAAA

Then turn him around:


M
I


AAAA

Then hit 'interact with target' on the alts:


M
I
AAAA

[mebben]

I did a gear guide for myself, but I posted it on my blog also.

Tank (http://multiboxer.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/bis-tankadin/) (three different BiS with heroics/crafted/emblems and so on)

Retribution (http://multiboxer.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/gear-guide-to-retribution-best-in-slot-bis/) (same thing)

[Fat Tire]

I did a gear guide for myself, but I posted it on my blog also.

Tank (http://multiboxer.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/bis-tankadin/) (three different BiS with heroics/crafted/emblems and so on)

Retribution (http://multiboxer.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/gear-guide-to-retribution-best-in-slot-bis/) (same thing)

off topic kinda but

I enjoy reading your blog mebben:)

[Multibocks]

My main paladin hit 39.3k unbuffed today with a few ToC25 upgrades. When I'm running my paladin group I wish they all could have his prot gear, I mean he never dies. I sometimes wonder what 5 prots could do, but no one would be doing any healing except from melee (at least you wouldnt run oom too much with... crap forgot the skill name.)

[mebben]

off topic kinda but

I enjoy reading your blog mebben:)

Thanks :o Basically Stealthy has been my inspiration, everything he says is information. He's a walking australian wiki for multiboxing paladins :D This thread has been my bible since I started, but it seems like ppl gave up on paladins, it's very quiet atleast.



My main paladin hit 39.3k unbuffed today with a few ToC25 upgrades. When I'm running my paladin group I wish they all could have his prot gear, I mean he never dies. I sometimes wonder what 5 prots could do, but no one would be doing any healing except from melee (at least you wouldnt run oom too much with... crap forgot the skill name.)


I love my paladins and especially my tank. The survivability on him is scary, it's usually so good that when I'm actually trying to suicide him I get annoyed since it takes too long :)

[Jubber]

I agree with mebben. I find it very annoying when I am trying to get my prot pally killed off and he just keeps taking more hits that don't seem to do much. So i encourage him to die by sitting more.. lol. still takes forever sometimes.

[d0z3rr]

Haha yeah, I screwed up on a boss in an instance last night and knew I would wipe, I sat there for a while just waiting for my tank to finally die......then ardent defender kicked in and I had to wait longer!

[Ridere]

A tad off-topic, but still dealing with five paladins, so I didn't want to clutter up the board with a new thread.

Up until level 60, does it matter if I attempt dungeons without a Protection tank, or Holy healer? Basically, could I get away with running old world dungeons with a five ret team?

Or at least up until level 40, where I can dual spec them.

[mebben]

A tad off-topic, but still dealing with five paladins, so I didn't want to clutter up the board with a new thread.

Up until level 60, does it matter if I attempt dungeons without a Protection tank, or Holy healer? Basically, could I get away with running old world dungeons with a five ret team?

Or at least up until level 40, where I can dual spec them.

I had one tank and four rets all the way and I had zero issues in dungeons :)

[mebben]

Wrote a little instance guide for eight instances with an all paladin team. It's nothing fancy, just a few tips and guidelines that I use.




All Paladin Guide to Heroics
Utgarde Keep (http://multiboxer.wordpress.com/2009/11/06/guide-to-multiboxing-heroic-utgarde-keep-with-paladins/)
Utgarde Pinnacle (http://multiboxer.wordpress.com/2009/11/06/guide-to-multiboxing-heroic-utgarde-pinnacle-with-paladins/) / Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYD4HAXrggQ)
Gundrak (http://multiboxer.wordpress.com/2009/11/06/guide-to-multiboxing-heroic-gundrak-with-paladins/)
The Nexus (http://multiboxer.wordpress.com/2009/11/06/guide-to-multiboxing-heroic-nexus-with-paladins/)
Drak’tharon Keep (http://multiboxer.wordpress.com/2009/11/06/guide-to-multibox-heroic-draktharon-keep-with-paladins/) / Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjPhA750Big)
Culling of Stratholme (http://multiboxer.wordpress.com/2009/11/06/guide-to-multiboxing-heroic-culling-of-stratholme-with-paladins/) / Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPE_w9rdDig)
Azjol-Nerub (http://multiboxer.wordpress.com/2009/11/06/guide-to-multiboxing-heroic-azjol-nerub-with-paladins/)
Ahn’Kahet: Old Kingdom (http://multiboxer.wordpress.com/2009/11/06/guide-to-multiboxing-heroic-ahnkahet-old-kingdom-with-paladins/)
Halls of Stone (http://multiboxer.wordpress.com/2009/11/19/guide-to-multiboxing-heroic-halls-of-stone-with-paladins/)

[mebben]

I have been using Stealthys godsent /click macro for my rets for quite a while now. I am however starting to feel like there could be more improvements made as I feel my dps is really low :P I am not sure if it's just in my head though :D

On a stationary boss encounter without gimmicks my rets will average 2,5k dps, with some luck they MIGHT hit 3k, but that's very rarely.

My rets equipment
Skekrafta (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Lightbringer&cn=Skekrafta&gn=Stormriders) (Ret)
Skekraftb (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Lightbringer&cn=Skekraftb&gn=Stormriders) (Ret)
Skekraftc (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Lightbringer&cn=Skekraftc&gn=Stormriders) (Ret)
Skekraftd (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Lightbringer&cn=Skekraftd&gn=Stormriders) (Ret)

Atm I am using this one from Stealthy:




Here's my one button spam for Ret pallies:

Macro 1:

/assist focus
/startattack
/stopcasting
/click MultiBarLeftButton1
/click MultiBarLeftButton2
/click MultiBarLeftButton3
/click MultiBarLeftButton4
/click MultiBarLeftButton5

The /stopcasting is there for exorcism and art of war procs...since excorcism now has a cast time, if the macro is called it starts to cast it, and art of war hasn't proc'd, the next button press will stop the cast. If art of war has proc'd however, it will be instant cast and the macro will go ahead. This macro will also cast Hammer of Wrath when the mob falls below 20% health. You can sub in Flash of Light for Exorcism if you want heals instead of dps. You can also macro in Consecration if facing multiple mobs (although this tends to chew through mana).

Here are the rest of the macros that get called from the /click functions:

Macro 2:
#showtooltip
/assist focus
/castsequence reset=8/combat judgement of wisdom,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Insert whatever judgement is appropriate.

Macro 3:
#showtooltip
/assist focus
/castsequence reset=10/combat Divine Storm,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,

Macro 4:
#showtooltip
/assist focus
/castsequence reset=4/combat Crusader Strike,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Macro 5:
#showtooltip
/assist focus
/castsequence reset=15/combat Exorcism,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,

Macro 6:
#showtooltip
/assist focus
/castsequence reset=6/combat Hammer of Wrath,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

S.

My question is.. am I just retarded for thinking that I should do more dps than I am or could there be some tweakage to this macro?

[Twyman]

wow thanks for all the info, i am just about start tackleing my 5 pally group

[Multibocks]

I cant see your armory right now, but given heroic emblem gear 2.5k isnt bad without raid buffs (specifically WF haste). If you are running a DK tank with improved icy talons then I might be concerned, but basically you are almost hitting 3k without a bunch of raid buffs and debuffs in heroic gear(im assuming here.)

[mebben]

I cant see your armory right now, but given heroic emblem gear 2.5k isnt bad without raid buffs (specifically WF haste). If you are running a DK tank with improved icy talons then I might be concerned, but basically you are almost hitting 3k without a bunch of raid buffs and debuffs in heroic gear(im assuming here.)

Really? Well I guess I should be happy with the dps then. Just felt a bit low with my current gear (imo).

[Multibocks]

Heroics is a bad place to judge dps. My shaman can vary anywhere from 6k dps (heroism) to the low 2000s during trash pulls. I would go check it on a dummy and honestly I dont think your dps is that bad. If you were sporting ToC10 and 25 stuff then I would be doing a wtf-face.

[mebben]

Heroics is a bad place to judge dps. My shaman can vary anywhere from 6k dps (heroism) to the low 2000s during trash pulls. I would go check it on a dummy and honestly I dont think your dps is that bad. If you were sporting ToC10 and 25 stuff then I would be doing a wtf-face.

Well that's the thing, even on a doll it's 2,2-2,5kish. Granted I haven't played since Naxx but my DK did a lot more damage in crappier gear, but I heard they got nerfed so its hard to compare.

[Ualaa]

You can drag the spells out of the spellbook and put them onto a bar so they're easily visible.
Then do your spam, and observe the spells.

Verify that each is clicked basically immediately after coming off of cooldown.

Adjust the comma's for timing, if necessary.
Stealthy's macro's are usually pretty good, but everyone has their own click speed.

[mebben]

You can drag the spells out of the spellbook and put them onto a bar so they're easily visible.
Then do your spam, and observe the spells.

Verify that each is clicked basically immediately after coming off of cooldown.

Adjust the comma's for timing, if necessary.
Stealthy's macro's are usually pretty good, but everyone has their own click speed.

I'm currently testing the macro as we speak. I'm not saying that Stealthy's macro is bad, more that my paladins are doing crap ass dmg. Trying a few things now, but it seems like it's pretty equal dmg wise to what Stealthy already had in his macro. 2,350dps on the heroic dummy feels weak tho :P

But I'll look into the commas!

[mebben]

I've been fiddling around with both /click and /castsequence..

With the /click dps macros for rets that I could find my average dps on the heroic dummy were around 2200 (2 min testing or more)

I tried a couple of /castsequence macros but due to the 255 char limit I couldnt get anything satisfying so, after reading around on the forums (using lots and lots of search :P) I found the Super Duper Macro which just gave me another +400 solid dps :D So without buffs I'm currently putting out an average of 2600 dps with my current gear. Feels better since i can peak well over 4k but not sustain it.

I'm gonna continue to tweak it a bit as this one has two crusader strikes after each other.. but you get the picture.

/castsequence reset=combat Crusader Strike, Judgement of Wisdom, Divine Storm, Crusader Strike, Consecration, Exorcism, Crusader Strike, Judgement of Wisdom, Crusader Strike, Divine Storm, Consecration, Crusader Strike, Judgement of Wisdom, Crusader Strike, Exorcism, Divine Storm, Crusader Strike, Judgement of Wisdom, Consecration, Crusader Strike, Divine Plea, Crusader Strike, Judgement of Wisdom, Divine Storm, Crusader Strike, Consecration, Exorcism, Crusader Strike, Judgement of Wisdom, Crusader Strike, Divine Storm, Consecration, Crusader Strike, Judgement of Wisdom, Crusader Strike, Exorcism, Divine Storm, Crusader Strike, Judgement of Wisdom, Consecration, Crusader Strike

That's the EJ dps chain x2

I can rest in peace now :D

[Multibocks]

Nice I think you can fit that in IS, I'll have to check when I play my rets again...

[Stealthy]

Hi all,

It's been a while since I've been back to this thread, becuase I'm kinda focussing on my DK/Sham team at the moment. But I'm going to be having another go at my pallies again next week.

Mebben - I know what your saing about the DPS being a bit low, I kinda felt that myself. I read that using /stopcasting in macros resets the swing timer, which would result in low white damage - but haven't had a chance to test this out myself however, as I'm without internet at home atm (transferring to a new ISP), but should be back up and running in a few days.

The problem with using a /castequence is that you can't really take advantage of art of war procs, or rather when art of war doesn't proc it slows down the /castsequence. On mobile fights this would be a bigger problem, as you would effectively be stuck at that point until you stopped moving long enough to get the exorcism off.

I'll report back here when I've had a chance to do more testing... :D

Cheers,
S.

[Stealthy]

A tad off-topic, but still dealing with five paladins, so I didn't want to clutter up the board with a new thread.

Up until level 60, does it matter if I attempt dungeons without a Protection tank, or Holy healer? Basically, could I get away with running old world dungeons with a five ret team?

Or at least up until level 40, where I can dual spec them.

I ran 5 rets up until level 62 or 63...I was able to clear the first few instances in outland without too much trouble - there's pleny of humanoind mobs, and you can control pulls using repentance. However I did make it a point to grab all the quest gear upgrades first, since they made a huge difference to the gear I had from Azeroth.

Cheers,
S,

[mebben]

No worries Stealthy!

I agree about the Art of War procs and /castsequence, however as it is (atleast for me) the castsequence yields much higher dps then the /click one. My macro writing skills are limited, so you are welcome to haxxor up a new /click macro that's better :-)

[Stealthy]

Finally got a decent chance to play around with my pallies last night, after my recent internet outage while i changed ISP's. :)

I brought my pallies to Org and spent roughly an hour or so trying various combos on the heroic test dummy. The results were taken from my best geared ret pally - Hammertîme (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Magtheridon&n=Hammert%C3%AEme). He's not as well geared as Mebben's rets, and I'm using a few pvp pieces in place of pve, but close enough to make a comparison. :)

Each test consisted of 4 x 3 minute sessions with each setup. I was trying to minimise the RNG factor as much as possible.

Things to note:
- The results don't include any DPS from Hammer of Wrath since the target dummy never went below 30% health.
- My pally only has a 220 hit rating, which is about a 1.3% miss rate for yellow attacks on the target dummy, so DPS results will be a bit lower (263 hit rating = 100% chance to hit with yellow attacks).

Here are the results:

1. Click macro spam - result: 2.25k DPS
No surprise here - DPS on par with Mebben's results.

2. Click macro spam with /stopcasting removed - result: 2.4k DPS
This one was interesting. I had read that /stopcasting reset the swing timer, which would mean less white damage - the results seem to confirm this. I though that removing the /stopcasting might interfere with Exorcism casts (since the macro would still attempt to cast exorcism even if Art of War hadn't proc'd) however this didn't seem to be a pproblem.

3. Click macro with /stopcasting and exorcism removed - result: 2.0K DPS
This result just confirms that having exorcism in the rotation is a DPS increase, even if it means risking a cast without Art of War proc'ing.

4. Click macro with spells in different order - result no change in DPS.
Not surprising, since no matter what order the spells are in, the click macro still ends up casting the spells in a FCFS manner. Only really affects the initial cast order of spells.

5. Mebben's castsequence macro - result: 1.9K DPS
Drop in DPS for me using a straight /castsequence, but not really surprising. When you cast spells in a castsequence, the client always waits for confirmation from the server that the spell has been cast, before moving to the next spell in the sequence. If you're playing on a low latency, you wont see much of an effect. However for someone like me, playing from Australia with a latency of 350-400 ms, thats a significant gap between casts, and a resulting drop in DPS.

I'm going to continue testing over the new few days, as I think the timing on my macros can be tweaked a bit, particularly on the exorcism casts. I'll report the results back here if I manage to get an decent jump in DPS.

Hopefully this info will prove useful. :)

Cheers,
S.

[Multibocks]

Excellent thanks for the confirmation. I will have to go remove those stopcastings, heh.

[mebben]

Crocodile internet! :D

I have to do some testing today to see, but since I'm not having a high latency it could be why I am not experiance that drop in dps. Thanks for testing Stealthy!

[mebben]

Finally got a decent chance to play around with my pallies last night, after my recent internet outage while i changed ISP's. :)

Here are the results:

1. Click macro spam - result: 2.25k DPS
No surprise here - DPS on par with Mebben's results.

2. Click macro spam with /stopcasting removed - result: 2.4k DPS
This one was interesting. I had read that /stopcasting reset the swing timer, which would mean less white damage - the results seem to confirm this. I though that removing the /stopcasting might interfere with Exorcism casts (since the macro would still attempt to cast exorcism even if Art of War hadn't proc'd) however this didn't seem to be a pproblem.

3. Click macro with /stopcasting and exorcism removed - result: 2.0K DPS
This result just confirms that having exorcism in the rotation is a DPS increase, even if it means risking a cast without Art of War proc'ing.

4. Click macro with spells in different order - result no change in DPS.
Not surprising, since no matter what order the spells are in, the click macro still ends up casting the spells in a FCFS manner. Only really affects the initial cast order of spells.

5. Mebben's castsequence macro - result: 1.9K DPS
Drop in DPS for me using a straight /castsequence, but not really surprising. When you cast spells in a castsequence, the client always waits for confirmation from the server that the spell has been cast, before moving to the next spell in the sequence. If you're playing on a low latency, you wont see much of an effect. However for someone like me, playing from Australia with a latency of 350-400 ms, thats a significant gap between casts, and a resulting drop in DPS.

I'm going to continue testing over the new few days, as I think the timing on my macros can be tweaked a bit, particularly on the exorcism casts. I'll report the results back here if I manage to get an decent jump in DPS.

Hopefully this info will prove useful. :)

Cheers,
S.

Ok I've done two 5 min tests on both the clicky one and the /castsequence one

1. Clicky macro without /stopcasting yields 2,300dps for me

2. Castsequence - Noticed that my first one locked up due to divine plea being to close in the rotation, so i removed that + the last crusader strike and my rotation jumped up to 2,500

I'll continue testing

[Whowantstoknow]

5. Mebben's castsequence macro - result: 1.9K DPS
Drop in DPS for me using a straight /castsequence, but not really surprising. When you cast spells in a castsequence, the client always waits for confirmation from the server that the spell has been cast, before moving to the next spell in the sequence. If you're playing on a low latency, you wont see much of an effect. However for someone like me, playing from Australia with a latency of 350-400 ms, thats a significant gap between casts, and a resulting drop in DPS.
S.

Just wanted to Point out that this is not correct as the confirmation is within the GCD. If your latency was as high as 750ms (worst case scenario of 500ms if you could get your DP, exorcism, consecrate GCDs to 1s -ie unlikely) then it would start to be a problem. You only encounter this problem when using casted spells as the confirmation waits until after the cast ie not within the GCD

The cast sequence is not efficient though and still needs tweaking

edit: Click will probably win in the end as the rotation is priority based but I dont think that the difference will be all that great

[Multibocks]

Has anyone tried the super long ret castsequence dps macro to see if its better?
Think it's like 30 casts long or something like that.

[Whowantstoknow]

Yes read post 139 :P

The end of the sequence is inefficient but I think that may have been corrected now.

[mebben]

Yeah my original castsequence was faulty.. I've changed it to:

/castsequence reset=combat Crusader Strike, Judgement of Wisdom, Divine Storm, Crusader Strike, Consecration, Exorcism, Crusader Strike, Judgement of Wisdom, Crusader Strike, Divine Storm, Consecration, Crusader Strike, Judgement of Wisdom, Crusader Strike, Exorcism, Divine Storm, Crusader Strike, Judgement of Wisdom, Consecration, Crusader Strike, Divine Plea, Crusader Strike, Judgement of Wisdom, Divine Storm, Crusader Strike, Consecration, Exorcism, Crusader Strike, Judgement of Wisdom, Crusader Strike, Divine Storm, Consecration, Crusader Strike, Judgement of Wisdom, Crusader Strike, Exorcism, Divine Storm, Crusader Strike, Judgement of Wisdom, Consecration

I had two divine pleas in it before which locked it, and two crusaders strike following each other. That's not the case now, seems to work fine. Tbh I rather use click as it should be better, but like I said a few posts earlier, the dps I get with click isn't good enough, so I tried this one - which gave me more.

I also have two versions, I switch to a hammer of wrath prioritized one when boss gets low.

[Multibocks]

nm I was wrong!

[lans83]

alot of pages here now, not sure if this was already posted or not (sorry, I'm too lazy to read thru 16 pages) but a here's a simple macro I use on all my toons on my team

/target (toon)
/cast Cleanse

just change the (toon) to whoever you want to cast cleanse on for each account. just make sure that toon is not on the same account as that pally. here's an example.

my main (tank) targets slave 1, then casts Cleanse. Slave 1 targets Slave 2, casts Cleanse. Slave 2 > 3, then 3 > Main. that way each toon targets another in the party and pops Cleanse at once, like a full circle of healing. I have this macro on the same key across all toons so I mash it when I need to. another helpful tip is if you run an all Human Pally team, put "Every Man for Himself" on round robin, so incase your whole team gets MC'ed, Feared, or Stunned, you can hit this once for one toon, then mash the Cleanse macro. It' will free one, that one cleanses the next then they just make the circle. Very helpful in PvPing. can be done with any trinket that offers the same as Every man for himself.

[Iceorbz]

Anyone setup /click with innerspace? I seem to be having some issues and my guy is spamming like a retard.

}}ccH2H2H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1 H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1
1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H 1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1H1

Anytime i press the click macro button.

[Whowantstoknow]

What exactly are you typing into ISBoxer?

[Iceorbz]

Trying to get him to use the FTL dps key, i put the /click macro for FTL dps 1 (not inside IS) but just a macro in wow on button1

[Whowantstoknow]

Then what is the macro

[Iceorbz]

Its the standard click macro

/startattack
/stopcasting
/click MultiBarLeftButton1
/click MultiBarLeftButton2
/click MultiBarLeftButton3
/click MultiBarLeftButton4
/click MultiBarLeftButton5


What i expected to happen was it would call the FTL assist me keymap, do the assist.. then send button 1 pressing the /click macro in wow. But instead it puts out a bunch of garbage.

[Piecemaker]

my pally team just hit 80 today, i bought some gear for my tank (tempered titansteel helm, boots, epic tanking ring) and titansteel destroyers for the rets. Then i leveled maces a bit on the rets (only 390 atm). Rest of my tanking gear is quest and instance blues. The rets still have some questing greens.

Tank stats (unbuffed): 22k health, 24k armor, 30% avoidance, def capped
Ret stats: 17k health, 2.1k AP, 210 hit, 22% crit, 0 expertise

The rets have really bad gear, but i decided to give heroic DTK a try. Trash didn't go to well, almost died twice, but i managed to survive.

I killed trollgore with 10-20% health on all pallys, but i was really suprised i could kill him with crappy gear. Novos was harder, i was trying to use as few mana as possible on the trash on the stairs, and when novos became attackable i did some quick heals and rushed in.

After 10-15 seconds the first ret dies: blizzard + wrath of misery(the shadow curse) sucks! My rets only have 17k health so the curse really hurts and i have to heal through it. What's the best way to heal 1 ret? 4 x flash of light would require 4 more heal buttons, holy light on himself also requires 4 extra buttons. Until now i used only 3 healing buttons: 1 for 4 x flash of light on the tank, 1 for flash of light on each of the rets, and 1 for holy light on each of the rets. When only 1 ret needs healing none of these are good options.

My macros also need a lot of work i think, i have 5 main buttons:
1: tank SoR rets crusader strike
2: all judgement
3: all exorcism
4: tank hammer ot righteous rets divine storm
5: all consecration

dps i got in DTK up to novos: tank 1.2k rets 1.1k

I think my dps is way too low?? (first heroic for me EVER) Will my dps increase by much with better macros? And where should i get gear upgrades outside of heroics? Should i first upgrade my gear before i start on heroics?

[Multibocks]

I run 5 healing macros on F1-F5 so that I can single heal each ret. (Only the rets cast heal, if your tank does he has NO avoidance and will get the crap beat out of him). Works pretty well, and then I have the EveryoneHealYourselfButton as well as the BigEveryoneHealYourselfButton. Of course none of those require the tank to cast.

[Jubber]

I have 4 heal buttons that have worked so far. 1 heal tank button on all my rets. 1 FOL urself button, 1 HL urself. and 1 button that , 1 button that heals 2 of the rets while the other 2 dps.
My strategy for Novos when starting out in crap gear is start the fight behind him against teh wall using Seal of wisdom. Wisdom lets you keep your mana up and the mobs dont take long to kill.. may need 1 round of healing. Let things run to you. After you kill the 4th Summoner or whatever and Novos shield drops.
Then switch to SOV/C and stand on the corner of the square that Novos is standing on. DPS boss.. When he casts Blizzard run thru him to the other corner. Turn around repeat. His blizzard is stationary once he starts casting so really only 1 pally should get hit by blizzard as your tank runs thru Novos. heal when needed or switch to Wisdom if mana gets low. He was pretty easy when I did this. He's really not that hard if you take his fight slow. Once you get more geared he barely has time to cast more than 2 blizzards before he is dead.

[Piecemaker]

so my dps isn't too low?? Come to think of it, i forgot to use sacred shield on novos :) Could make a huge difference i think...

[Jubber]

Your dps should be fine. Most of the time he will cast wrath of misery followed by Blizzard. Just hit your sacred shield on wrath of misery. Run thru him on blizzard turn heal then continue dps.

[Stealthy]

Sacred shield should always be up when you're in combat. :)

Frost Resistance Aura and Shadow Resistance aura help a lot during this fight as well.

And of course don't forget your divine shield and lay-on-hands if needed.

Cheers,
S.

[d0z3rr]

Just wiped twice on Drakkari Colossus. What a piece of shit worthless boss. Back to Violet Hold.

[Stealthy]

Just wiped twice on Drakkari Colossus. What a piece of shit worthless boss. Back to Violet Hold.

Yeah he's defintely a bit of gear check for pallies. Here's what worked for me:

1. During the Colossus phase tank and spank as normal.
2. During the elemental phase have your tank walk backwards leading the mob around while your alts follow and DPS. This will make sure your guys don't stay in the puddles too long, and the mvoement is slow enough so that your alts DPS should be ok.
3. Stop DPS during the transition to the 2nd Colossus phase (aggro reset)to let your tank pick up aggro again.
4. Save divine shield & lay on hands for the elemental phases.
5. Don't forget to refresh Sacred Shield (usually during the 2nd Colossus phase is best).

Cheers,
S.

[Mosg2]

Alternately you can spend ~100g on the AH and get about 150 NR on each of your DPS toons and then just spank him in 30 seconds :)

[Ruodhaid]

My palateam is build aswell now setting at 80 59 59 59 59 atm planing to level a dk and then av level all the way to 80, i have put boa axe chest and soulders on them all :)

Main (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Runetotem&n=Yetun)
alt 1 (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Runetotem&n=Yetine)
alt 2 (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Runetotem&n=Yetina)
alt 3 (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Runetotem&n=Yetrine)
alt 4 (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Runetotem&n=Yetove)

[d0z3rr]

Just wiped twice on Drakkari Colossus. What a piece of shit worthless boss. Back to Violet Hold.

Downed him last night at lvl 77, but lost one pally. I still cannot figure out how he's doing so much dmg to all my paladins. I run around the room like a maniac so there's no possible way the paladins are staying in any type of pool or whatever that damages them. It's like the fact that they are in melee range is damaging to them, but I read strats on this boss and all people mention are the little purple things he leaves on the ground.

Easily the hardest boss I've encountered in northrend, he's harder than the final boss in grundrak.

For shits and giggles I tried Utgarde Pinnacle up to the first boss. No wipes, but some of the pulls had some serious dmg spikes on my tank that were suprising. The first boss was such a pushover though.

*edit* I will be running gundrak again for the Fraps movie, so I can post the vid later in case I'm doing something wrong during the fight.

[Multibocks]

I would say he and Ionar are the same toughness. Also the new boss in IC 5 man has a puddle AoE that does 9k per tick. Yes 9k.

[Shodokan]

I would say he and Ionar are the same toughness. Also the new boss in IC 5 man has a puddle AoE that does 9k per tick. Yes 9k.

Your tank should be at over 40k when you are geared enough for the new content... so for him it wont be a problem... if your pallys are engi just use rocket boots =P

[d0z3rr]

Killed him again and lost a pally again. It's in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aah0SHQsmVk

Still don't know how he does that much aoe to them. Oh well. Gundrak is definitely my least favorite instance overall, not just because of colossus.

[Piecemaker]

finally tried heroic dtk again and completed it (my first heroic). Novos was really simple, only boss i sometimes wipe on is trollgore, sometimes he does his corpse explosion and it's an insta wipe, sometimes it barely does any damage... Hardest part for me in this instance is the beginning: if i have a pull with 2 soulmages and they cast their ground aoe at the same time, it's a wipe.

I dual specced 1 ret to holy, and i like the playstyle a lot more. Did CoS hc today, i wiped on my first try at malgannis (healer died). Second try i didn't get the healer in melee range and it went much better, allthough he still died with malgannis at 30%. I got him wih only my tank alive at 4k health :)

Something else: i still have a lot of quests to do (half of icecrown, half of stormpeaks, full zul'drak). Any specific questlines i should complete first for rep and dailies? (or even better gear???)

here's my armory:

Tank: Paladra (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Azuremyst&n=Paladra)
Ret1: Paladre (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Azuremyst&n=Paladre)
Ret2: Paladri (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Azuremyst&n=Paladri)
Ret3: Paladro (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Azuremyst&n=Paladro)
Healer: Paladru (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Azuremyst&n=Paladru)

[Khatovar]

Hardest part for me in this instance is the beginning: if i have a pull with 2 soulmages and they cast their ground aoe at the same time, it's a wipe.

1. You should never have to deal with two. Turn Undead (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=19725) Repentance (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=20066).
2. Shadow res aura
3. /follow healer

[Multibocks]

Your tank should be at over 40k when you are geared enough for the new content... so for him it wont be a problem... if your pallys are engi just use rocket boots =P

My tank is never the problem in paladin groups, its your dps dying to AoEs that is the problem. Mine are at 23kish unbuffed and when collosus drops his nastiness they die pretty fast. I imagine that at 9k a tick they will die faster to Ick and Crick.

[Mamut]

My tank is never the problem in paladin groups, its your dps dying to AoEs that is the problem. Mine are at 23kish unbuffed and when collosus drops his nastiness they die pretty fast. I imagine that at 9k a tick they will die faster to Ick and Crick.

Since the PTR I have had some practice at Ick and can avoid most of his goo puddles before they can dmg me. If the server is laggy or im getting higher ping then do eat some of his dmg but its not too terrible. I back peddle alot while DPSing but this does require my dps to be standing ontop of my tank so they stay in sync.

Collosus drops the puddles more frequently but with a bubble or group LoH can brute force him down pretty quick. Just isnt as much room for moving around on this boss.

[Multibocks]

I did this yesterday on my shaman team and there really isnt enough real estate to run around the boss. I won, but I kept thinking, "Did they design this area such that you BARELY have enough room to avoid boss before he leashes?" There isnt a whole lotta focus time to take this guy down. You get it in small parts, so the fight takes forever.

[d0z3rr]

Ok so I just found out that Ionar is pretty much impossible for me to kill. So much for HoL. I see no way of being able to kill Ionar and have wasted way too much gold.

[suprafro]

Ok so I just found out that Ionar is pretty much impossible for me to kill. So much for HoL. I see no way of being able to kill Ionar and have wasted way too much gold.

Pop divine shield on whichever pally gets the static overload debuff

[remanz]

I have problems with Ionar too. Bubble only save me once, 2nd time he cast debuff on the same guy then I am done. Too much healing needed where my 4 rets can't cover it. Need some AOE heal. I am given up on this boss too until I get better gears so I can just zerg through. I did spread out, but my mana plus damage couldn't last me through the fight.

[d0z3rr]

Pop divine shield on whichever pally gets the static overload debuff

Yeah, but he loves to do the same pally more than once. He does the static overload a hell of a lot. I think the only idea I have is to set 3 paladins aside and not even have them enter. Then spec 1 holy to heal, and just 2 man the fucker with those two.

I wouldn't be so frustrated if this instance didn't have 2 drops that I need, especially one off the last boss (a +def trinket).

[d0z3rr]

Cleared Utgarde Pinnacle last night. Almost to 80! Skadi was a little tough to figure out what to do. I basically had everyone spread out when he whirlwinds, then whichever paladin is getting hit dies. Never thought about bubbling that paladin....dang.

[wonz]

I found out its a major buff for a 5 paladin team to replace one paladin by a enhancement shaman. You still got all 4 buffs from the paladins plus strength totem plus windfury totem plus cleansing totems plus castdisrupt which make it a lot easier. Best synergy ever.

[Tdog]

Thanks :o Basically Stealthy has been my inspiration, everything he says is information. He's a walking australian wiki for multiboxing paladins :D This thread has been my bible since I started, but it seems like ppl gave up on paladins, it's very quiet atleast.



I love my paladins and especially my tank. The survivability on him is scary, it's usually so good that when I'm actually trying to suicide him I get annoyed since it takes too long :)

Just for the record I haven't given up on my paladins. I joined the USAF and just barely got done with basic and am currently working my way through tech school. I'm going to be right back at it once I get to my first duty station. In the mean time I'm glad to see so many people getting good info. from this thread. Hope to be back online in a few months!

[ghonosyph]

maybe someone can help me out with this question, as i've not been able to figure it out. All these click macro's look awesome, and i understand the concept, but how are we supposed to use this if we have a action bar addon like macaroon for instance(the addon that i prefer) I have no idea what button is what. lol is there a way to figure that out thru macro / ingame syntax?

[Khatovar]

/run local f = GetMouseFocus(); if f then DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage(f:GetName()) end

Put that in a macro, hover your mouse over the button where you put the various macros your /click button calls, hit the hotkey for the above and it will output the button name in your chat window.

Edit - this assumes you use buttons. Some mods like Super Duper Macro allow you to create "floating" macros that do not go on a bar. You'd have to look in the documentation to get the calls for things like that {Super Duper Macro uses sdf_MACRONAME, for example}.

[Nyth]

Hey all

I have read this long thread quite carefully, and got many infos to help me build up my own pally team. Sorry to do a bit of archeology but I prefered to ask here than create a new thread.

I'd be grateful if you could shed some light on two topics :

Seals
I wondered which seal to use on my pallies. There seems to have been a debate from the post done by Tdog between keeping SoComm or switching to SoV. I read Stealthy's post saying SoComm is bad, but there seems to have been new changes to it inbetween (if I got i right)

Also, is SoL useful for the tank ou should another one be used (SoR as mentioned by tdog ?)

Replacement
I am quite confortable to have a pally tank, so I don't intend to change it. I had however the temptation to switch one of the retrib pallies for another spec/class. Could you comment on the two following choices ?


Holy Pally, to make it a dedicated healer ? (doesn't seem to be quite common in the 5-pally setup)
A DPS DK (for the 13%), instead of a 4th pally who cast a blessing, but you seem to lose quite some life savers (healing, HoL, bubble, ...)

I want melee/mobility and plate. I'm not too kind in having to handle a fixed and more fragile DPS, which ruled out the shaman

Thanks for any clue you might provide.

Cheers,
Nyth

[Seldum]

The DPS DK have been discussed in another topic.

Here: http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?t=28367

And as far as I can tell some think a DK DPS suck.

I read earlier in the forum, that you don't need a holy paladin for healing, just let your 4 rets do the healing as a group, since you would waste alot of DPS speccing the paladin holy.

[Shodokan]

The DPS DK have been discussed in another topic.

Here: http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?t=28367

And as far as I can tell some think a DK DPS suck.

I read earlier in the forum, that you don't need a holy paladin for healing, just let your 4 rets do the healing as a group, since you would waste alot of DPS speccing the paladin holy.

When decently geared your crit should be hovering around 40%. Art of War procs off of every crit... so you should have close to a 50% uptime of being able to throw out FoL. Most rets i see never go close to oom... so throwing the heals should be no problem, which successful teams have proven.

[Stealthy]

Hey all

I have read this long thread quite carefully, and got many infos to help me build up my own pally team. Sorry to do a bit of archeology but I prefered to ask here than create a new thread.

I'd be grateful if you could shed some light on two topics :

Seals
I wondered which seal to use on my pallies. There seems to have been a debate from the post done by Tdog between keeping SoComm or switching to SoV. I read Stealthy's post saying SoComm is bad, but there seems to have been new changes to it inbetween (if I got i right)

Also, is SoL useful for the tank ou should another one be used (SoR as mentioned by tdog ?)

Replacement
I am quite confortable to have a pally tank, so I don't intend to change it. I had however the temptation to switch one of the retrib pallies for another spec/class. Could you comment on the two following choices ?


Holy Pally, to make it a dedicated healer ? (doesn't seem to be quite common in the 5-pally setup)
A DPS DK (for the 13%), instead of a 4th pally who cast a blessing, but you seem to lose quite some life savers (healing, HoL, bubble, ...)

I want melee/mobility and plate. I'm not too kind in having to handle a fixed and more fragile DPS, which ruled out the shaman

Thanks for any clue you might provide.

Cheers,
Nyth

Seals:
SoComm is good for trash now, thanks to it's cleave-like ability. It's so-so in PvP - unless you're attacking multiple players, SoR is usually better. Use SoV for fights longer than 15 secs (i.e. bosses)
You could use SoL on your tank if you want, but I've never felt the need for it myself - you're reducing your DPS and you should be getting heals from instant FoL's (Art of War procs), DS and JoL's.
Replacements:
If I was going to sub a DK in for a pally, it would be as a tank rather than a DPS. With a tank you're not losing any healing, and the loss of a bubble is negligible anyway (since you never bubble your tank unless you want your alts to die :D). At the same time you're bringing some nice buffs (HoW, Ebon Plague). Also since DK's require more management in terms of cool downs and runic power, its usually easier to do as a main, rather than an alt.
A holy pally seems kind of redundant - you should be getting plenty of heals from your rets anyway, and you'll be losing a large chunk of DPS.

Hope this helps...

Cheers,
S.

[Tdog]

Hey all

I have read this long thread quite carefully, and got many infos to help me build up my own pally team. Sorry to do a bit of archeology but I prefered to ask here than create a new thread.

I'd be grateful if you could shed some light on two topics :

Seals
I wondered which seal to use on my pallies. There seems to have been a debate from the post done by Tdog between keeping SoComm or switching to SoV. I read Stealthy's post saying SoComm is bad, but there seems to have been new changes to it inbetween (if I got i right)

Also, is SoL useful for the tank ou should another one be used (SoR as mentioned by tdog ?)

Replacement
I am quite confortable to have a pally tank, so I don't intend to change it. I had however the temptation to switch one of the retrib pallies for another spec/class. Could you comment on the two following choices ?


Holy Pally, to make it a dedicated healer ? (doesn't seem to be quite common in the 5-pally setup)
A DPS DK (for the 13%), instead of a 4th pally who cast a blessing, but you seem to lose quite some life savers (healing, HoL, bubble, ...)

I want melee/mobility and plate. I'm not too kind in having to handle a fixed and more fragile DPS, which ruled out the shaman

Thanks for any clue you might provide.

Cheers,
NythPretty much what Stealthy said. Keep in mind I originally started this thread prior to some rather large paladin changes. I've had to take a 4 month break from WoW unfortunately and haven't been able to update the thread. However here in about 2 weeks when my computer is shipped over to the UK I'll be back in action and working on this thread again :) Although there has already been quite a good bit of discussion concerning 5x Paladins teams, I still have much more I would like to share and I look forward to working with all of you continuing into Cataclysm

[Nyth]

many thanks for all your answers ! I'm still in the process of levelling my toons at the moment (only 31), but really enjoy it so far and I've only started to get the skills (rotation is still pretty basic to be honest :-)

Instances are no big deal at the moment, although I've encountered some AOE bosses which can be nasty. I believe at high level I will need to improve my moves as I feel I'm still to static at the moment, pretty much applying a "tank & spank" posture.

Thanks for the tips anyway, much appreciated

[Tdog]

many thanks for all your answers ! I'm still in the process of levelling my toons at the moment (only 31), but really enjoy it so far and I've only started to get the skills (rotation is still pretty basic to be honest :-)

Instances are no big deal at the moment, although I've encountered some AOE bosses which can be nasty. I believe at high level I will need to improve my moves as I feel I'm still to static at the moment, pretty much applying a "tank & spank" posture.

Thanks for the tips anyway, much appreciated Yea definitely get use to being able to attack while on the move. That's one of the bigger advantages of an all melee team, being able to do 100% dps potential while never stopping. It takes practice of course to be actually putting out 100% dps while on the move and in addition not getting your teams butt kicked in the process.