Woot! Mounts at level 20 for 5 gold, epic land at lvl 40, 150% speed normal flyers at level 60 in 3.2!!!

[Slayde]

Blue forum annoucement today:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=17730154175&sid=1

This is a great change for us multiboxers starting new groups. :thumbsup: I can't wait for 3.2 now.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Yep, very cool change. Especially the epic land mounts at 40. I also do like the change to normal flying from 60% to 150%.

[Zal]

unless they increases 1-60 exp gains by 100% i don't think this is worth leveling another grp unless i'm just that bored. awesome change for lowbies, sucks that i still have to pay 24k gold for lv 77 flight training (combined with the 5000g)

[Knytestorme]

That's the thing though, I don't see there being a need to go with epic flying for all members of the group any more. Yes, having epic on a miner or herbalist is a good thing but the difference between 150% and 280% won't make enough difference imo to warrant spending 24kg on a team any more.

[Slayde]

Yeah, I doubt I will bother buying the epic flyers for my next group. 150% is much more tolerable in northrend compared to 60% when it will save me 25k. :thumbup:

It will also be awesome getting the new 150% flying mounts at level 60 for the whole outlands journey. 8o

[Moorea]

Wow big change indeed... now the question is "when is 3.2" ? I already
started buying epic flying on my team (1/5) now I sort of wish I didn't
and kept the 5k gold to gear them instead...

[daviddoran]

Yeah, i see no need to get 5x epic flyers. I might get 2, so i can fly to stones and summon, and for mining/herbing runs, but thats it

Does this mean druids get flight form at 60? or 58?

[Slayde]

I'd imagine 3.2 is still a ways off since it hasn't hit the test servers yet. My guess would be late July.

[MaltheMM]

this might be the thing that makes me quit

i've always loved vanilla more than the others, the quality of models and the number items using the same model has highly increased

making it easier to level, having achievements for wiping your ass succesfully, making DKs tanking spells with no CDs whatsoever, making raid anything but ulduar as easy as wiping your ass.

making it so easy to get gold that anyone and their mother has epic flying, the mammoth and the chopper.


sorry for the rant...

but that's just how i feel

[Otlecs]

this might be the thing that makes me quit
Why?

[Los]

this might be the thing that makes me quit

i've always loved vanilla more than the others, the quality of models and the number items using the same model has highly increased

making it easier to level, having achievements for wiping your ass succesfully, making DKs tanking spells with no CDs whatsoever, making raid anything but ulduar as easy as wiping your ass.

making it so easy to get gold that anyone and their mother has epic flying, the mammoth and the chopper.


sorry for the rant...

but that's just how i feelDid you never learn to share the bounties of this wonderful world? You sound like a warlock who gets nerfed.

[MiRai]

I am in the same boat as MaltheMM. I've been playing since the day the game went retail on the shelves of BestBuy and I've been disappointed by Blizzard a lot lately. Everything from 1-79 means absolutely nothing...the game doesn't start until level 80. I believe vanilla WoW [1-60] is the best part of this game. The lore and the zones and the way the quests can feel epic...all that seems lost now. Legendary items used to have epic quest lines and were difficult to obtain...kinda made them...oh, I don't know...Legendary? Thunderfury anyone? Blizzard completely abandons their old content and kicks it to the curb. Now-a-days they hand things out for free to anyone that whines about not having it. I honestly can't believe they didn't cave and drop the epic flying price...that's amazing. This is just the WoW old schooler in me talking out of my ass at 5AM though :)

[Los]

I take the ass part for the truth then, i mean thunderfury was farming some crystals and being lucky in obtaining 2 low drop rate items. How much difference is there compared to the current legendary mace?

[Darelik]

i dunno but this. is good news.

[Drew]

Count me in to the "w00t!" side of the arguments on this one. Just this week I had two hunters hit 60 and two shamen hit 58. I was not looking forward to picking up their epic land mounts, not to mention flyers.

My 73 DK has epic flight and my 70 druid has basic flight. If they tweak this change to get druids their standard flight forms at 58 (as somebody else pondered), I'll get right back on that pair of Ally druids that's been sitting at 14 for a couple weeks now. :)

[MiRai]

I take the ass part for the truth then, i mean thunderfury was farming some crystals and being lucky in obtaining 2 low drop rate items. How much difference is there compared to the current legendary mace? Wow. Thunderfury consisted of a little bit more than that but...I think what I was getting at was that the Baron's mount [or his sword for that matter] had a lower droprate [before it went up] than the Warglaives off Illidan.

[Smoooth]

the quality of models and the number items using the same model has highly increased
I agree here. It's not hard to make armor models and they really should make more. Using the same model but changing the color 10 times is really just lazy.

making it easier to level, having achievements for wiping your ass succesfully, making DKs tanking spells with no CDs whatsoever, making raid anything but ulduar as easy as wiping your ass.
The game is meant to be played with other people. Making it faster to level just lets you start doing that sooner. And it's not like you snap you fingers and have a level 80.
Complaining about easy achievements to me is like if grocery stores started giving out free pencil shavings and you complaining about it. If you don't want them, don't get them.
All the original WotLK raids were meant to be easy and people still fail at them. There's meant to be progression in raiding. Ulduar is only level 2 in probably 4 this expansion. This patch will have new raids and even new 5 mans. This might be a valid complaint if you just said that the hard raids weren't put out with the initial xpac release. But I kind of like a constant flow of content.

making it so easy to get gold that anyone and their mother has epic flying, the mammoth and the chopper.
I don't have a single epic flyer and never have. I don't have a mammoth. I don't have a chopper. I'm not saying it's hard to get gold but it takes time.

[Otlecs]

I read through the entire thread on the WoW forum, the responses here, and the responses on my own guild forum and I genuinely don't understand why anyone can be unhappy about this change.

I've been playing since Beta, boxing for over two years and know some people who have just recently joined the game.

I don't see these changes as a bad thing for anybody.

The most common argument is that the game becomes even easier. Does it though? Does it really? Especially bearing in mind that WoW is an easy game, and entirely caters for the casual player? That's why it's so successful.

I used to play Ultima Online (pre-Trammel). In that game you could travel directly to any spot you wanted with a simple spell that anybody could learn. It didn't make it an easy game. Not at all. It was a harsh cut-throat environment.

Travel is a tiny, tiny, tiny part of what makes a game easy. In fact, I don't really believe it's even a tiny part. I don't really think it plays any part in making a game easier or more difficult.

Slow point-to-point transport just increases the gap between doing interesting things. Travel time is down time, plain and simple.

The other argument is that it somehow cheapens "our" achievements. I don't buy that either. I sulked for months and took a break from raiding when TBC came out, because THAT cheapened my achievements pre-TBC. Throwing away all my tier 1 and 2 stuff that I'd taken so long to gather was painful.

But it was a necessary part of the game development, and so is this.

I think people who are getting especially emotional about this change need a quick reality check to set things back in perspective.

Being able to travel from one place to another faster isn't going to do you any harm, you know.

The only slight pang I felt is when I realised that my 29 twink hunter won't be as much fun as he used to be. I love fights where you couldn't just mount up and be anwyhere in the BG within seconds. Time to join the terrible ranks of the 19s perhaps...

[Momo]

Travel is a pain in the arse in this game.

Especially when your going from an epic flyer, back down to an alt with the lvl 30 land mount. Terrible.

Who cares. There is still plenty of "hard" stuff in the game for mine atm....hell, I'm still struggling with my 5 box in heroics...

[Svpernova09]

I welcome this change. 1-30 is mind numbing to travel through.


Content is too easy? How's Algalon going for your guild?

[MiRai]

Content is too easy? How's Algalon going for your guild? I am so glad they have Algalon in Ulduar...something difficult in this game. Just wait until he gets nerfed after all servers have Celestial Defenders.

[Marathon]

Thank God mounts I can actually afford without hours of farming

[Enndo]

Well.. this is good and all.. but its another case of blizz screwing over long time customers who had to wait til 40 and pay 100g you didnt have by than, than pay 1000g at 60 which back than was hard to come by (no dailys back than) so that they can please new customers. Like RAF, all though great for boxers, i remember putting in a ton of time and energy to level (while also forcingyou to learn your class). Just like with current raids, they made them so easy for new players that they are boring for long time players. This game is going down hill just because blizz is more worried about pleasing new customers than caring about anything long time customers have to say. While they're at it they should start toons off with enough money to at least by your first few spells from trainers lol.

[stoat]

150% flyers are great, no need to spend 30k now. Kind of sad this is announced now though, just bought epic ground/regular flyers a few weeks ago.

[Starbuck_Jones]

I don't see this a screwing over anyone. The game is aging and if they don't make changes like this to keep it accessible to potentially new customers then the atrophy of customers will increase, life isnt fair but you dont see me complaining that kids in Jr. High have cell phones when they didnt exist when I went. Makeing it quicker for people to get around as well as level through 4 year old content is in everyone's best interest. No established customer outside of just doing it because they can would want to slog through the old school grind to 60 when the running average was about 10 days played time before all the XP changes. Speed levelers could do it faster, but everyone I played with 10 days is about what it took. That's about how long it takes now to get to 80.

What they need to offer is flight point training for vanilla wow. A new DK magicaly gets every FP in the game, yet if you want to make a new Hunter or other class, you have to spend hours getting your flight points, Hell I dont even have like a 1/3 of them on my guys.

I would like to see a pair of new starting zones for each faction that is quest chained like the DK starting area, but this one is for all other classes so you can just start a new guy at 55 like the DK's and start retooling some of vanilla wow to the level 80 game. Why is it we can defeat old gods, Aspects, and Epic evil, but we cant take back Gnomeron from a bunch of Troggs?

[Taliesin]

Just in case anyone missed the philosophy they are trying to adhere to, about 2 years ago now they stated that they wanted to slowly accelerate the lower content over time so as to keep the general time it takes to hit max level roughly the same even with the release of new expansions. This means these types of updates will continue to roll in as long as new content is being rolled out. Reducing the xps needed for levels 1-60 was the start, then 61-70, and I expect to see a similar change for 71-80 around the time the next major expansion is set to hit store shelves. Same goes for mounts. I won't be surprised if they get tweaked again another year from now or so.

The majority of people leveling up are not spending the time to actually enjoy all the original world storylines like people did at release. I'm kinda glad that Blizzard is adapting the game to how people play today, rather than how they did 4 years ago. If they hadn't made all these changes up until now, I would absolutely dread trying to start any new character in this game. RAF would be the only thing that would come close to saving it for me. The game has enough new time sinks being added in that help offset removing some of the older ones.

I'm glad they are making changes like this. It helps keep this game interesting to me. I don't intend to be the 80 year old guy sitting on my porch yelling at kids to get off my lawn.

[Zal]

i'd still buy the epic fliers, buts that me because i'm retardedly rich. Also like starbuck said it is good idea to keep the game easier for newbies to level considering blizzard just lost about ~5 million subscribers from The9 no longer hosting servers in china.

[Enndo]

You guys both make great points but my point that long time players had to spend a ton of time doing stuff new players get to basically skip is also valid. A way to correct this would be if blizzard made achievement points useful. Like being able to get a mount with them or something.

[Taliesin]

You guys both make great points but my point that long time players had to spend a ton of time doing stuff new players get to basically skip is also valid. A way to correct this would be if blizzard made achievement points useful. Like being able to get a mount with them or something.
True. I've always felt they should add some sort of non-game impacting rewards to the game for achievement points to make old content hold at least SOME value, even just for novelty. New mount models, pets, fun gadgets, titles, or whatever. It at least gives a little incentive to go and look at the older content, even if people still don't really even pay attention to the story behind it all.

[Turenn]

blablabla, this is just new content. What came in the past or how things used to be don't matter at all. I think it's great that they lower the cost and level requirements of mounts. Many of you sound like those retarded MC raiders back in the day. I'd rather have new content, less time leveling alts then denying some lowbies their cheap mounts. Wow is evolving into a casual game more and more, and I think it's a great thing. Remember when you had to farm hours and hours just to have gold for repairs and consumables? and in those days there were no battle and defense limits....it was expected that you showed up with all the buff available.

I just feel like this is turning into more of a real game now then it was in the beginning. It's maturing and one of the highest wish from all players whilst leveling up is to get a mount sooner and cheaper. Great work blizz :)

[Enndo]

I still wouldnt consider this a casual game, in order to raid or pvp(decently) you still have to spend hours raiding, spend lots of gold, and grind bg's and arena's constantly, if you miss a couple weeks of that you fall behind, thats not very casual.

[Tombs]

I still wouldnt consider this a casual game, in order to raid or pvp(decently) you still have to spend hours raiding, spend lots of gold, and grind bg's and arena's constantly, if you miss a couple weeks of that you fall behind, thats not very casual.

No real gear check to start raiding, unless you're a tank really. Gear doesn't help you not stand in stuff. PvP is accurate though.

I think this change is good.

[Turenn]

I still wouldnt consider this a casual game, in order to raid or pvp(decently) you still have to spend hours raiding, spend lots of gold, and grind bg's and arena's constantly, if you miss a couple weeks of that you fall behind, thats not very casual.

Don't know how it is in your guild, but where I'm now we raid ulduar 3 times a week, real laid back. Most of the members are old raiders and we're at the General with almost no effort. The new naxx is stupid easy, most of ulduar aswell. Now I can raid with alts in new content if I wish. That was more or less impossible before.

[Dominian]

I still wouldnt consider this a casual game, in order to raid or pvp(decently) you still have to spend hours raiding, spend lots of gold, and grind bg's and arena's constantly, if you miss a couple weeks of that you fall behind, thats not very casual.

Don't know how it is in your guild, but where I'm now we raid ulduar 3 times a week, real laid back. Most of the members are old raiders and we're at the General with almost no effort. The new naxx is stupid easy, most of ulduar aswell. Now I can raid with alts in new content if I wish. That was more or less impossible before.

Then play at hard mode, its like beeing a experienced fps player trying out a new fps and choosing easy difficulty and complaining about its to easy.

Come back when you killed Algalon the Observer in Uludar 25 and tell me it was easy, then i will belive you! :)

[Slayde]

Well.. this is good and all.. but its another case of blizz screwing over long time customers who had to wait til 40 and pay 100g you didnt have by than, than pay 1000g at 60 which back than was hard to come by (no dailys back than) so that they can please new customers. Like RAF, all though great for boxers, i remember putting in a ton of time and energy to level (while also forcingyou to learn your class). Just like with current raids, they made them so easy for new players that they are boring for long time players. This game is going down hill just because blizz is more worried about pleasing new customers than caring about anything long time customers have to say. While they're at it they should start toons off with enough money to at least by your first few spells from trainers lol.

I disagree with your point. We didn't have 80 levels to go through to reach the end game that new players to WoW face today. Without the XP nerfs and other changes to the old world, new players would probably take around 20+ days played to reach 80. :thumbdown: Keeping WoW friendly for new players keeps this game going and brings new blood to the game. Plus, I may have done the original grind numerous times and i'm glad my next trip 1-60 will be much more fun by eliminating my least favorite part of the game. Travel on Foot after having numerous chars with epic flyers.

[Taliesin]

What kills me is the people looking for refunds for already having bought the training and mounts at current prices.

Announcing these changes yesterday means that the changes likely aren't even going to see the light of day for another month, if not longer. They have ample time to save their money now if they haven't bought it yet, and if they have, then they are getting to use the skill at least a month longer than those that are waiting for the discount. Even for the epic flyer, you're talking about a rep discount equivalent to only a few days of solid dailies, which I'd gladly pay for questing that much faster so I can hit 80 and make that kind of money pocket change. If they announced the price changes only a couple days before it went into effect, I guess I could understand, but they are still in the process of announcing planned changes in a patch that still has a lot more work to do.

Blizzard announces future changes to lower the levels on mounts AND makes them cheaper. And people demand that they ALSO give them money back?

*bangs head against the wall*

[Taliesin]

Comment removed. No longer relevent. :)

[Turenn]

I still wouldnt consider this a casual game, in order to raid or pvp(decently) you still have to spend hours raiding, spend lots of gold, and grind bg's and arena's constantly, if you miss a couple weeks of that you fall behind, thats not very casual.

Don't know how it is in your guild, but where I'm now we raid ulduar 3 times a week, real laid back. Most of the members are old raiders and we're at the General with almost no effort. The new naxx is stupid easy, most of ulduar aswell. Now I can raid with alts in new content if I wish. That was more or less impossible before.

Then play at hard mode, its like beeing a experienced fps player trying out a new fps and choosing easy difficulty and complaining about its to easy.

Come back when you killed Algalon the Observer in Uludar 25 and tell me it was easy, then i will belive you! :)

I'm not complaining that it is easy, far from it. I think it is cool that players gets to see 99% of the game without too much effort. And the Hard Modes adds nothing to the game at all save getting to algalon. The encounters are more or less the same only on speed :)

[Coltimar]

Sweet! My Doomhammer toons are about 100g shy of land epic each, at level 66 :(

[Slayde]

Sorry Taliesin. I meant to quote someone else. I fixed my other post.

[Ualaa]

The first (slow) flyer is currently 60%/60% ground/flying speed.
It is being changed to level 60 for availability, which means Outland quests are trivialized a lot sooner.
More importantly its being made faster for straight line travel then the Epic ground mount.
60% ground and 150% air speed is very nice.

I think the first point is a poor choice, but the second is amazing.
The whole reason to not have flyers until 70th, is because they trivialize so much content.
Avoid 90% of the mobs, land near the quest guy and kill him plus an add, then fly off again.
Cold Weather Flying, while a gold sink too, is not until 77th, to force players to actually play for most of Wrath.
Once you can fly, Wrath quests become a joke as far as difficulty goes, aside from a few group chains.
The thematic elements and story is still there for anyone that takes the time to read the lore.

Blizzard has been quoted on several occasions saying, the game was meant to be played at maximum level for 90% of your playtime.
Unlike most games in the genre, leveling up is designed to be a very small portion of that total.
I'd imagine Cold Weather Flying will be available at 71st, when the next expansion comes, and Wrath is something Blizz wants us to blow through.

Not necessarily a bad thing there.
Take EQ, where it would be two expansions before you upgraded all your gear from the current expansion if you always took the "best in-slot" item for your class.
It could take 2 years after joining a guild to have gear equivalent to current top raiders, because of DKP.
In BC, they pressed the reset switch, as they have done in Wrath.
Essentially nothing before the current expansion counts for anything, as far as gearing up.
Anyone that gets the expansion on Day 1, has as much shot as the top person in a class from the previous expansion.
Especially if a guild wipes DKP for a new expansion, as many do.

[hendrata]

What I don't understand is this: the 225 and 300 riding skill is now affected by faction discount.

1. So the flying skills are affected by which factions? Thrallmar / Honor Hold? Then how's a toon at level 60 ever going to have a discount on the 225 skill?

2. Back then the moment I dinged 70 I bought 225 and 300 skills right away because I know it won't be affected by any faction discount. But now, I'm tempted to wait until they reach exalted with Thrallmar. But we all know how easy that is. No one runs Shattered Halls anymore, no one runs level 70 heroics. If you say "then don't wait for faction discount, just buy it now".... well, 5% or 10% of 5000 times 5 toons is a lot.

[Drew]

This just in:

Class-specific travel forms/buffs (Shaman Ghost Wolf, Druid Travel Form and Hunter Aspect of the Cheetah) will become available at level 16 in patch 3.2! Also, Druid flight forms will be available at 60 for regular and 70 for epic. No early flight for us anymore, but at least we get a matching speed increase (150%) for normal flight form.

[Fat Tire]

This just in:

Class-specific travel forms/buffs (Shaman Ghost Wolf, Druid Travel Form and Hunter Aspect of the Cheetah) will become available at level 16 in patch 3.2! Also, Druid flight forms will be available at 60 for regular and 70 for epic. No early flight for us anymore, but at least we get a matching speed increase (150%) for normal flight form.Aspect of the Cheetah: Requires level 16
Ghost Wolf: Requires level 16
Paladin Warhorse: Requires level 20
Paladin Charger: Requires level 40
Warlock Felsteed: Requires level 20
Warlock Dreadsteed: Requires level 40
Travel Form: Requires level 16
Flight Form: Requires level 60 (150% flight speed)
Swift Flight Form: Requires level 70

[Tonuss]

That's the thing though, I don't see there being a need to go with epic flying for all members of the group any more. Yes, having epic on a miner or herbalist is a good thing but the difference between 150% and 280% won't make enough difference imo to warrant spending 24kg on a team any more.That was one of my first thoughts. The reason I wanted to get epic flyers for my characters was because the normal ones were just painfully slow. If I have this right, it means you go from a 160% to a 250% movement speed, or better than a 50% boost?

The question for me is, now that I'm leveling a lowbie team (presently level 21)... do I wait for this change, or go ahead and keep leveling? I'm in no particular hurry, and the amount of money spent is considerably different (something like 39 gold at level 30 now, versus 5 gold after the patch). I may switch back to the high level group for a while, then, and see about getting them to 80 in the meantime...

[Tonuss]

this might be the thing that makes me quit

i've always loved vanilla more than the others, the quality of models and the number items using the same model has highly increased

making it easier to level, having achievements for wiping your ass succesfully, making DKs tanking spells with no CDs whatsoever, making raid anything but ulduar as easy as wiping your ass.

making it so easy to get gold that anyone and their mother has epic flying, the mammoth and the chopper.


sorry for the rant...

but that's just how i feelI understand your concerns, even if I don't share them. I think that this just makes the most sense for Blizzard. I think that one of the things that made it easy for people to leave EQ for WoW was that after several expansions, the leveling curve was still horribly slow. Aside from the time required to find and assemble a group, the experience gain was still really bad. I think that the Blizzard developers were keen on avoiding that. So when a player wants to reroll, or just level up some alts, they can do so quickly. It also means that you don't have to slog through the old content if it happens to have become old or stale for you. Long story short, I believe that it keeps more people playing than it causes people to stop playing. By keeping the 1-to-60/70/80/etc grind manageable, people aren't as inclined to leave if they feel they either cannot continue to play their class, or just want to try something new.

So yes, it's a pretty big change and not everyone will be happy with it. But I think it's the right move in terms of percentage of people that will play longer.

[Marious]

I cant really see how this thing would be a bad thing at all, I love the whole flyer at 60 very nice, and then a 150% which makes sense because the flyer should be a tad faster than your land mount that the whole point of getting it. And I would have to agree with some of the others, really Vanilla is really old, unless they are adding stuff to the content for those low levels. And whats the big deal? Its not like a lot of us actually have any real desire to play Vanilla or BC for that mater that much since most of us have done 2-3 groups easy through all of that, why not let the noobs get to LK and be able to join others in raiding? For Vanilla no one and I mean no one unless they want the achievement are actually doing the old raids. And for BC all I ever did was some Kara and then right before LK came out I did a little bit of the 25 man content. Never really been big on raiding so it was not that big of a deal, and now I don't have a lot of time to actually raid until later on the summer so really not that big of a deal. And for Epic Flyers well I dont have all of them and there not that big of a deal really my main guys has one my other main has one and I have one on my shaman, the other alts dont have the epic flyers thought they do all have the epic land mount. I was not in that great of a guild when Ulduar came out and now that I have no time to raid, only been in Ulduar a number of weeks maybe 3-4 weeks and we had issues and its not a big deal really I would love to actually raid but if it dont happen aint gonna cry about it.

So just to make it simple I am glad for those that are starting and how easy they will have it.

[keyclone]

makes me wonder if people are complaining that they are not able to get epics.
i wonder what the percentage of accounts have no 80s.

[Tdog]

I will say this...This game has become entirely too easy, and compared to vanilla raids, the raids in this game are a joke.

HOWEVER, these changes have nothing to do with the game getting easier but rather with the game becoming LESS ANNOYING, and I think anything that makes ridiculous stuff become less annoying is always a good thing.

YES, Blizzard in my mind should work on making at least some of the end game as epic to complete as they did in vanilla wow. But them removing old, annoying, out of date, aspects of the game isn't affecting the epicness of the end game either way.
As the 1 - 90 / 1 - 100 rerolls approach, I welcome *anything* that makes the grind easier.

Seriously, when is the last time any of you against this have leveling 1 - 60/70/80 WITHOUT RAF. It takes some serious time.No kidding, even boosting w/o RAF takes forever.

[Marathon]

I wish they would bring the price down of spells ... that gets exspensive times 4 or 5

[Otlecs]

Odd that RaF, with it's 300% faster leveling speed was universally welcomed with open arms around here, and yet this change - which benefits everyone and is unlikely to take off more than... *waves finger in air*... about 10%(?) from the overall levelling time - gets such a mixed response.

I find that very strange.

[Gadzooks]

I read the QQing on the forums, it was to be expected, honestly.

I've played this game since the first week of release. Yes, I have nostalgia for those days, but mostly for the community that existed then, that's gone now. I have no desire to go back to the vanilla game, and seeing how deserted vanilla and BC zones are, most people feel the same way. Northrend right now *is* the game, and people, even new players, rush through content to get there. Vanilla is gone, and not coming back, and I think a decision was made at a high level at Blizzard that revamping the old content is a waste of time, and would just prolong the life-span of a game that probably should'nt hang around that long - the focus is probably shifting towards the new MMO they're working on.

It is what it is - you take from it what you can, and if it's not delivering, you find something that does. Playing WoW is not mandatory, after all. I enjoy it, so I still play, but when I lose interest, I will walk away, just like I did from other games I got into in an obsessive/serious manner, like DiabloII and SimCity. WoW is evolving, and it might evolve away from what you want in a game - it's sad if that happens, but that's when you should move on, not sit around and bitch and complain on message boards about it. Move on. The energy you waste complaining would be far better spent on a new pursuit.

As for the mount changes, they are AWESOME. I have 2 characters who I was just about to drop the cash on to get flying and epic ground mounts, now I'll wait, to save the gold. (All my other 80's have Journeyman and the slow flyers and cold weather flying). 150% flying for a LOT cheaper is a GREAT change for us, and I can't believe any of us would be against it in any way. Wrath has been very good for us with things like this, and the new "interact with target" function, the game for us is so much better, I have NO complaints. 5k epic flying? Who cares? Mammoths? Who cares? Choppers? I've thought they were stupid from day one, they don't fit the flavor of the game and honestly, look dumb.

These changes "cheapen" your experience? Really? C'mon. Be serious. The only thing that "cheapens" your experiences is your own mind. A newbie getting cheaper mounts has NO EFFECT ON YOU OR YOUR MEMORY of your experiences. That's the sniveling of a spoiled brat, I'd like to think the members of this forum are better than that - leave that kind of selfishness to the WoW general forum, where it belongs. You'd really deny new players a faster route to 80, where 95% of the community is, just for your nostalgia for a game that doesn't exist anymore? Really?

As for the gold, who cares? It's fake gold. I did'nt pay real money for it, they'll make more, I'll loot more. So what that my first mount ever took months farming Shadowfang Keep for? That's what the game was then - and if offered cheaper mounts at lower levels back then, you bet your multi-boxing ass I would have jumped on it in a heartbeat and been THRILLED just as much back then as I am now.

Besides, I think they have something up their sleeves along with these changes. The rep discounts for Artisan says to me some new stuff is coming, and will be involved with 3.2 and the Tourney, and later Icecrown. A change like this, in the past, was usually done at the end of a cycle, like pre-BC, and pre-Wrath. We're halfway through Wrath, and this is a MAJOR change.

Dunno. My Blizzard Spidey-sense says they have more to come...I've had a sneaking suspicion that Icecrown and Arthas are going to be something we've never seen before. I can't spell it out, there have just been clues along the way that point to something BIG, and the mount changes might be part of it.

[MiRai]

I read the QQing on the forums, it was to be expected, honestly.

I've played this game since the first week of release. Yes, I have nostalgia for those days, but mostly for the community that existed then, that's gone now. I have no desire to go back to the vanilla game, and seeing how deserted vanilla and BC zones are, most people feel the same way. Northrend right now *is* the game, and people, even new players, rush through content to get there. Vanilla is gone, and not coming back, and I think a decision was made at a high level at Blizzard that revamping the old content is a waste of time, and would just prolong the life-span of a game that probably should'nt hang around that long - the focus is probably shifting towards the new MMO they're working on.

It is what it is - you take from it what you can, and if it's not delivering, you find something that does. Playing WoW is not mandatory, after all. I enjoy it, so I still play, but when I lose interest, I will walk away, just like I did from other games I got into in an obsessive/serious manner, like DiabloII and SimCity. WoW is evolving, and it might evolve away from what you want in a game - it's sad if that happens, but that's when you should move on, not sit around and bitch and complain on message boards about it. Move on. The energy you waste complaining would be far better spent on a new pursuit.

As for the mount changes, they are AWESOME. I have 2 characters who I was just about to drop the cash on to get flying and epic ground mounts, now I'll wait, to save the gold. (All my other 80's have Journeyman and the slow flyers and cold weather flying). 150% flying for a LOT cheaper is a GREAT change for us, and I can't believe any of us would be against it in any way. Wrath has been very good for us with things like this, and the new "interact with target" function, the game for us is so much better, I have NO complaints. 5k epic flying? Who cares? Mammoths? Who cares? Choppers? I've thought they were stupid from day one, they don't fit the flavor of the game and honestly, look dumb.

These changes "cheapen" your experience? Really? C'mon. Be serious. The only thing that "cheapens" your experiences is your own mind. A newbie getting cheaper mounts has NO EFFECT ON YOU OR YOUR MEMORY of your experiences. That's the sniveling of a spoiled brat, I'd like to think the members of this forum are better than that - leave that kind of selfishness to the WoW general forum, where it belongs. You'd really deny new players a faster route to 80, where 95% of the community is, just for your nostalgia for a game that doesn't exist anymore? Really?

As for the gold, who cares? It's fake gold. I did'nt pay real money for it, they'll make more, I'll loot more. So what that my first mount ever took months farming Shadowfang Keep for? That's what the game was then - and if offered cheaper mounts at lower levels back then, you bet your multi-boxing ass I would have jumped on it in a heartbeat and been THRILLED just as much back then as I am now.

Besides, I think they have something up their sleeves along with these changes. The rep discounts for Artisan says to me some new stuff is coming, and will be involved with 3.2 and the Tourney, and later Icecrown. A change like this, in the past, was usually done at the end of a cycle, like pre-BC, and pre-Wrath. We're halfway through Wrath, and this is a MAJOR change.

Dunno. My Blizzard Spidey-sense says they have more to come...I've had a sneaking suspicion that Icecrown and Arthas are going to be something we've never seen before. I can't spell it out, there have just been clues along the way that point to something BIG, and the mount changes might be part of it.You have ever-flowing knowledge my friend...I think I have a new outlook on life after reading this post. :)

[Khatovar]

I just find it all pretty amusing. I remember having nothing but travel form on my druid {my 1st, 2nd and 3rd ones, actually} even at 60 because the epic mount was an unfathomable money sink back in the day. Now it's all better mounts, faster mounts, more mounts, earlier mounts. I have to wonder how long until you start the game with a mount in your pack {have they even brought up actually being able to upgrade your base backpack yet? Now that's an overdue change.}

Something really just irks me about games that just pile more crap over top of the lower level game. They really should do something to revitalize the early game instead of creating more ways to plow through it. I am always a hell of a lot more interested in a game that has replayabiliy than a game that is in the constant habit of creating a feeling of "doesn't start until cap". I always enjoyed rerolling new toons to play a new way, but after gods know how many 80s through the same exact content {hmmm, Silverpine or The Barrens...Winterspring or Plaguelands...Oh boy, 'Into The Scarlet Monestary" for the 40th time!"...yawn} my desire to try a new class or new spec just died. It's more boring than fishing, and earlier mounts and faster leveling doesn't fix that. It's still boring as sin, just for less time. Leveling didn't even feel like an achievement anymore, I think character creation beats it out on the fun and exciting scale. Won't be long before character creation takes longer than hitting cap, lol.

[unseen]

I welcome this change. 1-30 is mind numbing to travel through.
This patch actually motivated me to try out leveling a druid team (as much as I *HATE* the tauren models and mounts). Getting to travel form and getting mounts always seems to be the biggest hurdle in the game for me. I think this change is pretty excellent, and the 150% normal flight speed speed change is just the icing on the cake.

[Multibocks]

Have any of you tried leveling lately without RAF? It made me re-quit when I tried out a new team. 4 hours later and only level 5? /puke

well that did involve setup time, but still... there's only a few level ranges I enjoy on my way to 80 and 1-20 aint one of them.

[Drew]

I just realized something. We've all be talking about the level at which mounts will be available now, but has anybody thought about the prices?

I've only got the Ambassador title on one toon (ally hunter, currently 44), and he'll probably be the only one I go for the 50-mount achievement on. Without faction discounts, it would cost him 170g for all the regular land mounts, 1500 for all the fast ones, 300g for the stock flying mounts and 800g for the epic flyers. That's 2,770g for the first 32 mounts. With the price cut the costs drop to 17g for regular land, 150 for epic land, 150 for stock flyers and 400g for epic flyers.

717g for the same 32 mounts! :D

That's a savings of 2,063g!

Something tells me my hunter is going to be doing a lot of shopping once this patch hits. (And dammit, they'd better not take away that Albino Drake for getting 50 mounts...)

[Moorea]

I wonder when 3.2 will hit... hope it's before fall... july would be nice... not sure I can keep my gold in my pocket that long :-)

[JoeWunsch]

Blizzard always is making WoW easier for new players, and it has always been an easy game.

When I switched over from EQ1 I thought it was a joke. Things like a minimap? In EQ1 we had to draw our own map if you wanted one lol, or download one someone else made. They didn't give you maps, they gave you a tool to draw a map. Mounts? LOL, we had no mounts (at first). At best you could find a druid who would SoW you for an hour.

This game has always been easier than the average MMO, which are normally a little bit masochistic.

I like these changes, I need 150% flying mount xD I never bought epic flyers so this should help a bit.

[Tonuss]

Have any of you tried leveling lately without RAF? It made me re-quit when I tried out a new team. 4 hours later and only level 5? /puke

well that did involve setup time, but still... there's only a few level ranges I enjoy on my way to 80 and 1-20 aint one of them.I've never leveled with RAF, though that's because I had my accounts purchased before then. Also, for me the journey is the game, once I get to 80 I no longer have much of anything to do (my friends are playing on another server). My only real race is to 60 because I'm anxious to try out my teams in Outland and then Northrend.

[Duese]

These changes "cheapen" your experience? Really? C'mon. Be serious. The only thing that "cheapens" your experiences is your own mind. A newbie getting cheaper mounts has NO EFFECT ON YOU OR YOUR MEMORY of your experiences. That's the sniveling of a spoiled brat, I'd like to think the members of this forum are better than that - leave that kind of selfishness to the WoW general forum, where it belongs. You'd really deny new players a faster route to 80, where 95% of the community is, just for your nostalgia for a game that doesn't exist anymore? Really?

How about, this is discouraging me from leveling another toon, because the sense of accomplishment that I would get out of it is greatly diminished due to the fact that it is so easy. Was it easy before? Yes (which is why these changes are stupid), but it was an investment. Getting your Epic flyer was an investment, now it is going to be a luxury set aside for mains and gathering toons.

I don't understand how you can call the people who are against this change the selfish ones. Is it not selfish that people are constantly bitching and complaining about how lvling is so boring and how it's so time consuming wanting blizzard to make it easier and the whiners getting their way? People are going to bitch and complain until they get everything handed to them on a silver platter and then they will complain that it's not on a gold platter.

Yes. I will deny players a faster route to 80, not because I'm a jerk, but because some people don't deserve it. I'm sorry, but if you just started playing a month ago and you are lvl 80, there is a problem. But hey, if you want to call me a "spoiled brat" go ahead because saying that nostalgia is the only reason why people dislike this change is as ignorant as saying it that people should just start with lvl 60-70-80 characters. "Hai guyz! I'm rdy 2 raid! Wut r bandages?!"

Hell, it's like right now with what they are doing to ulduar. We've spent the last month bashing our heads against Mimiron and Yogg Saron. After they made the changes to Mimiron (3 weeks ago?) we literally walked in the next night and 1-shot him. The changes they made to Yogg Saron this week are the same boat. We were having trouble getting through phase 1 but we were able to make it into phase 2 every few attempts. Now after the changes they made, walked right in and was consistently getting to phase 2-3 and ended up killing him on the first night we attempted him after the nerfs.

Are you going to tell me that making things easier has no effect on your sense of accomplishment? If so, I'm going to call bull shit on that or else I will call you the selfish one. "Sense of accomplishment" is what we get in this game. Hell, right now, we have 1 boss left for our 10 man Champion of Ulduar title. This is weak to say the least.

[Tonuss]

Yes. I will deny players a faster route to 80, not because I'm a jerk, but because some people don't deserve it.I think that when Blizzard launched WoW, they had this mindset to some degree, although IMO they were keen on not being as bad as EQ. But there is a monetary concern for them, in that they've got way more people playing than they probably had ever expected, and lots of money coming in as a result. So they'll probably err on the side of profitability when making decisions about this. For them, it isn't about whether a player "deserves" to get a particular trinket in their video game. It's more about thinking "what will get people to continue to play?" Making the 1-60/70 game easier to level through, so that people are able to get to 80 more quickly and start doing heroics or raids, is one way of keeping them playing.

I'm not saying that as a criticism of Blizzard ("omg they sold out") but it's just realistic. They've taken the practical approach, and I think it's a good idea to help people zip through those low levels as quickly and pain-free as possible. At some point, it wouldn't surprise me if they make it so that getting to level 40 takes just a few hours, or even allowing players to start at 20 or 40. Purists and players who loved that low-level game will feel betrayed, but they won't stop playing over it. People who otherwise might grow bored or frustrated and quit, will stay instead. It just makes sense for them to do this.

[Duese]

Making the 1-60/70 game easier to level through, so that people are able to get to 80 more quickly and start doing heroics or raids, is one way of keeping them playing.

But wouldn't they want it to take longer to get up in level since it will keep people playing longer?

[gitcho]

Yes. I will deny players a faster route to 80, not because I'm a jerk, but because some people don't deserve it. <my 2c> I most definitely would not have gotten back into the game (quit before BC) and would not be 5 boxing if it weren't for RAF and a nerfed 1-70 - and i'm sure there are many others like me. Finally hitting 80 felt SOOO good, but i'm not doing it again. Perhaps the trip nerf to 80 isn't entirely aimed at new players </my 2c>

[Tonuss]

But wouldn't they want it to take longer to get up in level since it will keep people playing longer?I don't believe that it does, and I suspect that Blizzard doesn't either. There are a lot of people at max level, and thus there are opportunities for both new players, as well as players rolling alts, to group and raid once they're 80. The impression I get is that the options for grouping pre-70 are very slim, and the options for raiding pre-80 are practically nonexistent. I doubt that more than a handful of people are interested in the journey; most are leveling so that they can get to 70 for groups or to 80 for the rep grind, arena and/or raids. Dragging out the pre-70 leveling grind (or not shortening it, anyway) may keep people from wanting to start playing, start playing again, or continue playing.

People tend to crowd at the top level in most MMORPGs, and that's been particularly so for WoW since the leveling grind was pretty easy to begin with. Anything they can do to make the trip to 80 faster will result in more people continuing to play, IMO.

[CavScout]

I don't understand how you can call the people who are against this change the selfish ones.

I can if the reason someone offers for being against the changes is simply because they, themselves, had to do it a harder way. Every expansion or level-cap raise or new content makes work put in before less valuable. When TBC came out, all our effort in Naxx felt like wasted time because people were soon getting equivalent gear from quests or early instances in TBC content. It's just the way it works. You're either doing something because you want to and enjoy it or you're probably doing it for the wrong reason.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a DK-like options (starting out mid-levels with mid-level gear) for the basic classes. Gridning up is simply grinding up.


But wouldn't they want it to take longer to get up in level since it will keep people playing longer?

Not if folks get bored and quit. And this is especially true for new players how friends are in the end-game.

[Multibocks]

this shit needs to come out now, my druid and rogue group wants it.. NO, DEMANDS IT! GIV!

[Gadzooks]

These changes "cheapen" your experience? Really? C'mon. Be serious. The only thing that "cheapens" your experiences is your own mind. A newbie getting cheaper mounts has NO EFFECT ON YOU OR YOUR MEMORY of your experiences. That's the sniveling of a spoiled brat, I'd like to think the members of this forum are better than that - leave that kind of selfishness to the WoW general forum, where it belongs. You'd really deny new players a faster route to 80, where 95% of the community is, just for your nostalgia for a game that doesn't exist anymore? Really?

How about, this is discouraging me from leveling another toon, because the sense of accomplishment that I would get out of it is greatly diminished due to the fact that it is so easy. Was it easy before? Yes (which is why these changes are stupid), but it was an investment. Getting your Epic flyer was an investment, now it is going to be a luxury set aside for mains and gathering toons.

I don't understand how you can call the people who are against this change the selfish ones. Is it not selfish that people are constantly bitching and complaining about how lvling is so boring and how it's so time consuming wanting blizzard to make it easier and the whiners getting their way? People are going to bitch and complain until they get everything handed to them on a silver platter and then they will complain that it's not on a gold platter.

Yes. I will deny players a faster route to 80, not because I'm a jerk, but because some people don't deserve it. I'm sorry, but if you just started playing a month ago and you are lvl 80, there is a problem. But hey, if you want to call me a "spoiled brat" go ahead because saying that nostalgia is the only reason why people dislike this change is as ignorant as saying it that people should just start with lvl 60-70-80 characters. "Hai guyz! I'm rdy 2 raid! Wut r bandages?!"

Hell, it's like right now with what they are doing to ulduar. We've spent the last month bashing our heads against Mimiron and Yogg Saron. After they made the changes to Mimiron (3 weeks ago?) we literally walked in the next night and 1-shot him. The changes they made to Yogg Saron this week are the same boat. We were having trouble getting through phase 1 but we were able to make it into phase 2 every few attempts. Now after the changes they made, walked right in and was consistently getting to phase 2-3 and ended up killing him on the first night we attempted him after the nerfs.

Are you going to tell me that making things easier has no effect on your sense of accomplishment? If so, I'm going to call bull shit on that or else I will call you the selfish one. "Sense of accomplishment" is what we get in this game. Hell, right now, we have 1 boss left for our 10 man Champion of Ulduar title. This is weak to say the least.First of all, any accomplishments I get in WoW are honestly meaningless. Not that it's not fun, and that I don't get pumped when I do something cool, but in the grand scope of life, WoW is entertainment, and not a source of anything else. If you place worth on WoW accomplishments, then you are doing it wrong. It's part and parcel to how they sell the game, and keep you playing. I suggest you examine your attitudes, you might realize your need for meaningless accomplishments is pretty silly.

If the world thought the way you do, there would be no accomplishment, because nobody should be able to go past the first one. Ugg the caveman's idea for fire would cheapen the rest of the caveman's last winter freezing in a cave, after all, they had a hard time making it, why should new baby cave people get an easy winter in front of a fire?

And beyond that, who are you to determine what people "deserve", or not? Do you understand how insultingly obnoxious using the word "deserve" is, especially in the context of a video game? Do you actually think you are *BETTER* than other players, just because you played an older version of the same game? That you can sneer at new players or people rolling alts and actually think you have the right to determine their experience, based on what artificial yardsticks you choose to use? Are you serious?

THAT, my freind, is childish and selfish thinking.

Throw off the artificial accomplishments, accept the game for what it is, and enjoy it. If you want to pay to be frustrated, and be part of a community that actually believes performance in a video game is meaningful, EQ is probably better suited to your tastes. WoW is clearly not going to cater to that mindset, they made that decision before BC shipped. Not everyone picks up a copy of WoW so they can purposely frustrate and bore themselves silly for months.

[unseen]

First of all, any accomplishments I get in WoW are honestly meaningless. Not that it's not fun, and that I don't get pumped when I do something cool, but in the grand scope of life, WoW is entertainment, and not a source of anything else. If you place worth on WoW accomplishments, then you are doing it wrong. It's part and parcel to how they sell the game, and keep you playing. I suggest you examine your attitudes, you might realize your need for meaningless accomplishments is pretty silly. I understand your point and I agree with the majority of your post except the whole "this is just a game and it's meaningless" portion. While true, that's an easy out to basically discount anyone's protests about anything by simply marginalizing what they're talking about in whatever "the bigger scope of things" is.

I guess, to kind of throw your words back at you, who are you to tell people what to get from the game, whether that be a sense of accomplishment or just fun? ;)

[Duese]

And beyond that, who are you to determine what people "deserve", or not? Do you understand how insultingly obnoxious using the word "deserve" is, especially in the context of a video game? Do you actually think you are *BETTER* than other players, just because you played an older version of the same game? That you can sneer at new players or people rolling alts and actually think you have the right to determine their experience, based on what artificial yardsticks you choose to use? Are you serious?

I guess this would be the paragraph you would like me to respond to.

If you don't like me saying that people don't deserve to have things handed to them on a silver platter, so what. It's my opinion and I'm sticking to it because I feel strongly for it and have always felt strongly for it. This is exactly the same context that you are "judging me for judging them" which I don't have a problem with. Just because you disagree with me doesn't mean that I (or you) are wrong.

I strongly feel that the way they are speeding up leveling and making the game "easier" is detrimental to the game. Some of the biggest complaints from people is that their isn't enough content out and they have done all the current content. If you level up an alt right now, you experience maybe HALF the content than you originally did due to xp gains and gear rewards, even less with RAF. Not only that, but with so many of the "group" quests being converted to non-elite quests because people were having a hard time finding groups (with is a load of BS), the only real challenges were removed. So, basically, people are experiencing half the content and the content they are seeing, they are blowing through so quickly and easily that it's pointless to even really call it questing. This is how the changes that have been made to leveling are detrimental to the game. Throw in the BoA items that increase xp gains (which they are adding in another one that does stack) and it's getting even more ludicrous.

"But it's so boring"
Sorry, just because you have a lvl 80 doesn't mean that you deserve to have another max level character handed to you. It seems no one ever levels for the fun of it, all they do is level to get a max level character just so they can either do dailies or run naxx 10 and get free epics. Hey, if that's your playstyle, more power to you, but quit complaining about how the game design isn't catered to it. Shame on Blizzard for listening to the whiners. Typically the people I see complaining about it the most are people who just flat out don't know how to level. They are the people that have a friend come help them at lvl 33 to complete all the red quests in STV then complaining about not being able to find quests at lvl 40.

The last comment that I am going to make is directly in response to the negative connotation you are saying about the "context of a video game". This I don't understand and I have never understood. This media driven ideology that playing a video game requires no thought, skill or brainpower is as ignorant as the reports that violent video games cause kids to be violent, rather than the parents taking the blame for not being proper parents. I would argue that certain aspects of the video game world define your character more than watching the latest episode of Grey's Anatomy, 24 or the Simpsons, as is common in a non-gaming person. In the professional world, we spend a majority of our time working through the same tools that are in game (email, texting, chatting, etc.) To say that the "real world" and the video game experience are two mutually exclusive things is just ignorant.

[unseen]

Not only that, but with so many of the "group" quests being converted to non-elite quests because people were having a hard time finding groups (with is a load of BS), the only real challenges were removed. On my server (Illidan), which is pretty well populated, the 1-60 zones have been veritable ghostlands. I leveled up a few characters during BC (specifically a mage, paladin and rogue) and none of them did any instances except SM until BC content. I remember specifically being in Desolace completely alone, no horde at all. There have been plenty of times when I've been in a lowbie zone and there's 5 or less people in it during primetime. I don't think it's BS that people can't find groups for quests, let alone instances.

I can agree to disagree on the rest of your post.

My friend thinks that because everyone gets normal flying at level 60 with this change (whereas before druids would get it at 68 and everyone else would get it at 70) that this is a nerf to druids. My response to him was "way to look on the bright side".

[Tonuss]

Shame on Blizzard for listening to the whiners.I don't feel that this is a case of Blizzard listening to whiners. You are correct in that there are people who will demand that the game become so easy as to be unplayable, but I think Blizzard ignores them and uses a more practical approach to game changes. I really think it's just a case of too little use of the lower level content because people want to get to the end game, so the practical approach is to make it easier to zoom through it.

I remember when they announced that once WotLK shipped, the timed ZA run would no longer yield the bear mount as a reward (I think that was it, anyway). Players howled in protest, because they weren't good enough to get it done at 70 and envisioned getting it cheap and easy at 80. I don't think Blizzard wants to cheapen the sense of accomplishment as much as they feel that the game starts at the end level and they want to keep the overall 1-to-max curve about the same.

Currently I'm leveling my team via quests and not in a particular rush, as I have no concrete plans for them aside from eventually getting to 80. I typically see one or two people in any of the zones I am in. And the few times that I've seen a "group" it is either a level 80 power-questing some low level guildies, or another multi-boxer using his high level to drag his auto-follow lowbie around. I honestly think that the faster a new player gets past that stage, the better the odds that he will continue to play. Otherwise he flames out in his early 30s because all of his quests are orange or red or "X players required" because there's no one to run instances with for filler exp. Solo exp grinding isn't as bad in WoW as in other games, but I figure it would kill the fun for a new player.

[Smoooth]

I just read this. Anyone with a level 80 will be able to get cold weather flying at level 68 using an heirloon item bought for 1000g. If you have the gold you will be able to level through northrend with epic flyers.


Just to confirm, Tome of Cold Weather Flight is actually a new heirloom item planned to go into patch 3.2. At level 80 players can buy this heirloom item from the Cold Weather Flying Trainer in Dalaran for 1,000 gold and send it to an alt of the same realm, faction and account. The tome can be used to learn Cold Weather Flying at level 68, consuming the tome in the process.

Please note this feature is not yet in the newest version of the public test realm patch notes updated today. The item and its functionality are subject to change during the testing process.

[Multibocks]

Wow Duese you come across as a real a**hole. I know you are trying to sound like you are "not a jerk", but with every paragraph that's all I am getting out of it.

Let there be no illusions: You. are. a. jerk. You want people to walk both ways uphill in snow, JUST BECAUSE YOU DID IT. Sounds like my parents who were put out that I had computers for my schooling which made things easier (and harder.) I see, so lets stop the advancement of society because people "dont deserve it." (I know I know, real world comparisons suck.) Did I work for those computers? Nope. Did they make my schooling easier? Yep.

You need to either A. Find a more hardcore mmo or B. Roll with the punches. There will always be some way to set yourself apart from the crowd in WoW. Crying about old content is not one of those ways.

edit: P.S. Say Johnny is your friend and you introduce him to WoW. The new expansion pack: WoW; The Maelstrom is out and he wants to raid with you and your guild. After grinding out 1-80(by himself, God knows you are too selfish to help him) and then starting the new content. By this time it has taken him 3 mos of solid "alone time" leveling. He's bored. He quits. See this is what EQ was like. I introduced my brother to it late in Planes of Power. I showed him how to play and helped him level. Problem is he had to join a shit guild that was raiding Luclin to get the stuff necessary to raid PoP to join my guild. Ya, he quit. I like that WoW is casual enough that I can get someone up and raiding within a month(or whatever the goal is.) That's a LOT of time for a game. Blizzard realizes this and is making efforts to make the previous content faster and too bad, but honestly I don't really care that it steams you.

[Coltimar]

The game is not 1-60. Nor is it 60-70. It's 68-80. If you want to run MC, BWL and AQ go ahead. I do. I really like the 40 man content. I am going to have full lawbringer and sulfuras, one day.

[Multibocks]

I just read this. Anyone with a level 80 will be able to get cold weather flying at level 68 using an heirloon item bought for 1000g. If you have the gold you will be able to level through northrend with epic flyers.


Just to confirm, Tome of Cold Weather Flight is actually a new heirloom item planned to go into patch 3.2. At level 80 players can buy this heirloom item from the Cold Weather Flying Trainer in Dalaran for 1,000 gold and send it to an alt of the same realm, faction and account. The tome can be used to learn Cold Weather Flying at level 68, consuming the tome in the process.

Please note this feature is not yet in the newest version of the public test realm patch notes updated today. The item and its functionality are subject to change during the testing process.

And this is f*(&ing awesome. The northrend zones are gigantic and take forever to cross on even an epic land mount. :thumbsup: for this change

[Multibocks]

One last comment:

I strongly feel that the way they are speeding up leveling and making the game "easier" is detrimental to the game. Some of the biggest complaints from people is that their isn't enough content out and they have done all the current content. If you level up an alt right now, you experience maybe HALF the content than you originally did due to xp gains and gear rewards, even less with RAF. Not only that, but with so many of the "group" quests being converted to non-elite quests because people were having a hard time finding groups (with is a load of BS), the only real challenges were removed. So, basically, people are experiencing half the content and the content they are seeing, they are blowing through so quickly and easily that it's pointless to even really call it questing. This is how the changes that have been made to leveling are detrimental to the game. Throw in the BoA items that increase xp gains (which they are adding in another one that does stack) and it's getting even more ludicrous.


So you are telling me that its easy to find a group in the old world to take down an elite mob for one quest? Let's get real. What you mean is there is some 80 passing through the zone for whatever reason that might be willing to help you. I also find it hilarious that you of all people, a multiboxer, say it's easy to find a group at the low levels. When is the last time you had to LFG? Another thing: the challenges of the lower levels STILL EXIST. Hello dungeons? Ya those are still elite mobs and SM: Cath will still rape your group if that runner pulls the next set of guys. (Again this is if you find a group.)

My point still stands. You are upset for the sake of being upset. You would rather spite any newcomers to the game to feed your ego than let them have 1-70 easier than you did.

[Stealthy]

Old content is old.

If I've been through it 3, 4, 5, ... times before levelling toons, then I welcome any changes that speed up the process, becuase I sure aint learing anything new or experiencing anything new doing it over and over again.

And I dont think you learn how to play your class effectively by doing quests...instances are where that happens.

Mount changes get the :thumbsup: from me.

Cheers,
S.

[TheBigBB]

I never thought WoW was an easy game. There's always some raid which is very difficult that only top players can do. The only exception to this is maybe when WOTLK first came out. 60 raiding and 70 raiding was actually quite difficult for the most part. How many saw the end of Sunwell?

[Tonuss]

I consider it "easy" in that it's accessible to the solo player. There is content there for guilds that want a challenge and to be at the cutting edge. But in "pre-WOW" Everquest, for example, just getting to the maximum level required a group of players. I'm not talking about farming gear or killing boss mobs or raiding. I mean just to get experience for your levels. Questing was horribly implemented and there were no instanced dungeons, so most of the time you had to grind mobs. And even mobs that were a few levels below you could pound you into the ground, save for a few classes that could solo with varying degrees of effectiveness. Experience gain was horribly slow, and if you died you lost a large chunk of experience (and you could lose a level, as well). When you died you rezzed automatically and were at your bind spot with none of your gear, which was on your corpse, which you had to locate and loot. And so on and so on.

When WOW came out, you could solo to 60. You can solo to 80 now as well. Gear progression via quests is decent (in "old" EQ you could go 40 levels or more before getting your hands on an item with stats). Instances and raid zones require groups, and the harder content requires a minimum level of competence, but getting to 80 can be done alone, and gearing up for heroics and raids allows you to progress in manageable steps. Don't get me started on raiding in EQ. *shiver*

That's what I mean whenever I say that I feel that WoW is easy. It's simply more accessible to the casual and solo player, and more accessible to the small guild that groups or raids semi-regularly.

[Acerak]

I feel compelled to respond to your post, as you seem to have taken an unreasonable position and tried to support it with opinion while trying to make it sound like fact. Your indignance is also crystal clear, and I have to agree with another posted that you come across like an a@@hole ('http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/mailto:a@@hole'), whether you mean to or not.


If you don't like me saying that people don't deserve to have things handed to them on a silver platter, so what. It's my opinion and I'm sticking to it because I feel strongly for it and have always felt strongly for it. This is exactly the same context that you are "judging me for judging them" which I don't have a problem with. Just because you disagree with me doesn't mean that I (or you) are wrong.
So, basically what you want to communicate here is that you don't care about anyone's opinion but your own, and don't want to hear any arguments to the contrary - logic and reason bedamned!


I strongly feel that the way they are speeding up leveling and making the game "easier" is detrimental to the game. Some of the biggest complaints from people is that their isn't enough content out and they have done all the current content.
Which people? Hardcore raiders? I've been playing WoW consistently for 2+ years, and I haven't come anywhere close to seeing all the content. Are you a representative for the tiny percentage of people that have a huge amount of free time to play WoW much like a job, rather than the majority that do so when life allows?

And seriously - if you've run out of content, it's not like there aren't a gazillion other awesome games you can play to fill that time. Nope, can't do that - gotta make sure those lowbies stay put.


If you level up an alt right now, you experience maybe HALF the content than you originally did due to xp gains and gear rewards, even less with RAF.
So, what I'm hearing is that you think every time someone levels up a character they should be forced to go through the majority of the content, even if they've done so many times before. What I'm not hearing is a good reason for why you think that's the case. Because it's not how you'd do it? Or maybe you attach sort of some special significance to grinding mobs and money so you could finally buy your first mount, and you'll be damned if others shouldn't have to grind for precisely the same amount of time and put forth the same amount of effort?

I got my very first mount's money from my guildmaster. Egad, I skipped your essential grinding! -5 level penalty! So sorry about that. If it makes you feel any better, I paid him back two weeks later from the money I earned naturally while levelling. It didn't ruin my fun or sense of accomplishment one bit.


Not only that, but with so many of the "group" quests being converted to non-elite quests because people were having a hard time finding groups (with is a load of BS), the only real challenges were removed.
Have you tried doing some instances with a 4 or 5-box at the level for which the instance is intended? There's plenty of challenge to be had.


So, basically, people are experiencing half the content and the content they are seeing, they are blowing through so quickly and easily that it's pointless to even really call it questing. This is how the changes that have been made to leveling are detrimental to the game. Throw in the BoA items that increase xp gains (which they are adding in another one that does stack) and it's getting even more ludicrous.
So what? What if the person playing actually enjoys the feeling of blasting through the content quickly? What if testing their speed in levelling is how they have fun? Why are you so against people having fun in a way that's works for them?

We get it, you are hardcore. Not sure why that entitles you to dictate what others do to have fun playing the game. My suggestion to you: don't use RAF, and don't buy mounts. If you enjoy running around on foot and levelling slowly, no one's stopping you. Problem solved!


"But it's so boring"
Sorry, just because you have a lvl 80 doesn't mean that you deserve to have another max level character handed to you. It seems no one ever levels for the fun of it, all they do is level to get a max level character just so they can either do dailies or run naxx 10 and get free epics. Hey, if that's your playstyle, more power to you, but quit complaining about how the game design isn't catered to it.
This is just a mind-boggling statement. So I ask: why not? What difference does it make to you if I have 1, 2, 3, or 9 80's on my main account? Oh, right, I get it -- it's someone else having fun without going through some prescribed ritual of pain that you can't abide.

Oh, and I played the AH to make the money for my first epic flier. Oh, no! I failed to avoid tedium AGAIN!
Shame on Blizzard for listening to the whiners. Typically the people I see complaining about it the most are people who just flat out don't know how to level. They are the people that have a friend come help them at lvl 33 to complete all the red quests in STV then complaining about not being able to find quests at lvl 40. Perhaps you should spend less time listening to the people that constantly complain. I've not once heard of anything remotely like what you are talking about.

I'd be very curious to know how you arrived at the conclusion "Typically the people I see complaining about it the most are people who just flat out don't know how to level." My hunch is you pulled this from somewhere beneath your abdomen.


The last comment that I am going to make is directly in response to the negative connotation you are saying about the "context of a video game". This I don't understand and I have never understood. This media driven ideology that playing a video game requires no thought, skill or brainpower is as ignorant as the reports that violent video games cause kids to be violent, rather than the parents taking the blame for not being proper parents. I would argue that certain aspects of the video game world define your character more than watching the latest episode of Grey's Anatomy, 24 or the Simpsons, as is common in a non-gaming person. In the professional world, we spend a majority of our time working through the same tools that are in game (email, texting, chatting, etc.) To say that the "real world" and the video game experience are two mutually exclusive things is just ignorant.Dude. The second word is the key here. It's a game. You do it to ... wait for it.... have FUN! Why you don't want people to do so in a way that works well for them, I'll never understand.

[Iceorbz]

The first (slow) flyer is currently 60%/60% ground/flying speed.
It is being changed to level 60 for availability, which means Outland quests are trivialized a lot sooner.
More importantly its being made faster for straight line travel then the Epic ground mount.
60% ground and 150% air speed is very nice.

I think the first point is a poor choice, but the second is amazing.
The whole reason to not have flyers until 70th, is because they trivialize so much content.
Avoid 90% of the mobs, land near the quest guy and kill him plus an add, then fly off again.
Cold Weather Flying, while a gold sink too, is not until 77th, to force players to actually play for most of Wrath.
Once you can fly, Wrath quests become a joke as far as difficulty goes, aside from a few group chains.
The thematic elements and story is still there for anyone that takes the time to read the lore.

Blizzard has been quoted on several occasions saying, the game was meant to be played at maximum level for 90% of your playtime.
Unlike most games in the genre, leveling up is designed to be a very small portion of that total.
I'd imagine Cold Weather Flying will be available at 71st, when the next expansion comes, and Wrath is something Blizz wants us to blow through.

Not necessarily a bad thing there.
Take EQ, where it would be two expansions before you upgraded all your gear from the current expansion if you always took the "best in-slot" item for your class.
It could take 2 years after joining a guild to have gear equivalent to current top raiders, because of DKP.
In BC, they pressed the reset switch, as they have done in Wrath.
Essentially nothing before the current expansion counts for anything, as far as gearing up.
Anyone that gets the expansion on Day 1, has as much shot as the top person in a class from the previous expansion.
Especially if a guild wipes DKP for a new expansion, as many do.People will see more content by flying around northrend, alot of people will ground mount or grind to the next quest. Doing so I basically hit 68 by the time I leave terrokar forest , not even touching parts of nagrand, shadowmoon, BEM, or netherstorm. Flying to different quests will probably make me complete more quests with less grinding experience therefore getting more quests done and seeing more content imho.

[MiRai]

Can't delete posts.

[Multibocks]

edit: lol in reference to a "deleted" post =)