Big changes to Wintergrasp coming...

[Gadzooks]

http://www.wowinsider.com/2009/05/11/wintergrasp-quests-undergoing-significant-changes/

Sucks. I was going to farm these eventually, I havent done them yet.

Oh, and extended maintenance tomorrow, my server is offline until 12pm (midnight) tomorrow. Woo! Guess i get to get caught up on other things - no big deal, I don't play every night anyway.

Oh, and the WoW forums are down. There's a tsunami of QQ coming, or already hit. :P

[zhenyalix]

you about freaked me out the extended maintenance is only on a handful of servers for hardware upgrades - I mainly play at work / at night so was about to be hating life till my shift ends at 7am lol

[Svpernova09]

I think that means they're going down at midnight, not that they'll be down TILL midnight.

[OogaJiggaWooga]

I think that means they're going down at midnight, not that they'll be down TILL midnight.

The welcome screen messaage says they go down at 12 Midnight PDT, and should be playable again by 12 midday. Could be a long wait for some..

[Dominian]

IF this means i get 23k-25k honor once per week rather then 3-4k each day this certainly great news to me since it would decrease my honor farming ALOT and make me able to do things on my alts aswell. However i realy doubt that this will happen, what i expect is that it just means more bg farming! :(

Its not doubt that something had to be done with WG on well populated servers like mine is atm, WG actually make the world server crash 3-4 times each week. Latley i just been skipping WG and taking bgs instead since i just end up idling in WG anyway, however the dailies have been way to easy honor to pass.

When we attack its a 99% guaranteed chance that i get all my dailies done and 6-7k honor in TOTAL.

[Dominian]

I took a peak on mm-champion and great news!

WG "weekly" now gives 3723 honor and 20 Stone Keeper Shard (even thought the quest tooltip say 10) This is realy realy great news for overpopulated servers and will free up ALOT of my time.

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/11/9158458653-1205-wintergrasp-quest-changes.html

Also they are nerfing the warriors juggernaut abit in 3.1.2 "Juggernaut: Critical strike chance bonus reduced to 25%, down from 100%."

[Los]

Poo at juggernaut change (was just lvling my warrior :P)

[cmeche]

They need to fix the exploit that happens when logging out/in during or right after a mtach that gives the opposing faction full 16/16 vehicles at the START of WG! This happened to me yesterday when wg started.....one person in our raid noticed it and basicly noted that the battle was over. Opposing faction won in like 3 min....with our full raid defending. Boy, that pissed me off.

[Havelcek]

Yea they want to get less people in WG...its killing the servers.

[puppychow]

good ol' Blizzard "omg too many people are playing Wintergrasp, its too hard to figure out how to make the servers lag less so lets try to get less people playing!!" lol

sad thing is my guys have been honor capped for a while now, bought everything I can with honor and now have 200+ WG tokens and 1000+ Stonekeeper shards just banked.

[Lax]

Well you have to admit, it is a huge amount of people for one small area -- 3-4+ raids a side at peak, and it lags out everyone in northrend, adversely affecting everyone that isnt even in WG! Cost/benefit analysis would say they are doing the right thing by trying to decrease that number. I believe other possible "fixes" are along these lines:
Get really beefy servers for Wintergrasp alone -- cost lots of $$$
Increase network capacity -- they already have huge network capacity. cost lots of $$$ Decrease amount of traffic going to each player by dropping the distance you see players and other objects in the zone (this would subsequently improve your FPS) -- possibly save $$$ on bandwidth, but would only alleviate so much of the problem, and would piss people off if they dropped it enough to make it workable.I don't know if the bottleneck is server CPU or bandwidth but neither would be easy to solve without dropping the number of players in WG.

[Maxion]

good ol' Blizzard "omg too many people are playing Wintergrasp, its too hard to figure out how to make the servers lag less so lets try to get less people playing!!" lol

sad thing is my guys have been honor capped for a while now, bought everything I can with honor and now have 200+ WG tokens and 1000+ Stonekeeper shards just banked.
Oh, I thought the WG marks capped at 100 like BG marks do?

[Xinxo]

They capped WG marks @ 1000.

[gitcho]

Blizzard doesn't cheap out on server hardware, and their network bandwidth is more than adequate =) the problem is more likely the architecture model they've chosen makes it difficult to single instance zones with large numbers of users. There's an interesting article on EVE's server architecture and the problems and benefits they get having massive numbers of people in a single instance here: http://www.massively.com/2008/09/28/eve-evolved-eve-onlines-server-model/.

[Caspian]

The issue is not the number of players in the whole zone, it is the number of player in one place - basically in combat log range. Blizzard has stated exactly that [EDIT: Before I get pounced on - To clarify they have said "in one place" not combat log range that is my interpretation of "in one place" I think it is about right but would be happily proven wrong]. In the old days it was TM/SS then the AQ gate opening.

They tried to spread people out by changing the importance of the towers but, for a number of reasons, IMO that has not worked. 150-200 in the keep just flat out breaks stuff. There are a number of technical reasons why, I seriously doubt it is limited to a single bottleneck. As a side note I would still love to see the real server architecture, vs everyone's guesses, just to satisfy my inquisitive and curious nature. So if there are any blizz lurkers on here send me a PM with diagrams please - lol. Though if you could swing a tour of the Dallas Datacenter for me, I will buy you lunch and dinner :D.

Back to Wintergrasp...
I had the idea of battle based objective quests. You could pick one up every battle and you would be given a task - attack or defend something. You would gain honor/shards based on your time at that target. You could only get one per battle, you could not share it and if you abandon it you can not get another until the next battle. Time spent idle at a target could also accrue credit towards the kill quest and the defend/kill vehicles quest. It would reward enough honor/tokens to compensate if you are idle the whole time. The rewards would be enough that you would want to do it but not so much that you would feel you had to do it if you got something you didn't like.

I also had the idea of portals or Uldar style dialogue based teleporters at the GYs - or somewhere. To get to other places on the quickly, like your objective location.

It probably isn't the best solution for boxers as our dudes would get random tasks but if everyone in WG gets spread out we will be able to move a little better and have more fun.

I wrote it up on the suggestion forums, with more details. Check it out if you care argue for or against. Champion or mock it. Or just ignore it. Whatever, it is here:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?sid=1&topicId=16903659444&ST=US-805100-BKIJRVZF67adYx0bwWsaJcvZNNlCWkJx36e

[Havelcek]

The sad part is that people are in WG for a good reason...the instance is pretty fun, its quick, there are good rewards.

[Tasty]

TBH I couldn't be happier with the changes. Its going to make gearing up my teams SOOOO much easier :|

[Stealthy]

TBH I couldn't be happier with the changes. Its going to make gearing up my teams SOOOO much easier :|

Sadly this is not correct.

At the moment the daily quests offer rewards of 3 shards, 1.2k honor and 13.23 gold. Excluding the tower quest (becuase its a pain in the ass), there are 4 dailies which you can easily box:

1. Victory in Wintergrasp
2. Kill 10 players / NPC's
3. Defend / Kill 3 siege vehicles
4. Gather 10 quest items by killing revenants / players

So each day you can be earning 12 shards, 4.8K honor and 52.92 gold - over a week that adds up to 84 shards, 33.6K honor and 370.44 gold.

The new weekly quests are offering 10 shards, 3.7K honor and 13.23 gold - so that makes a total of 40 shards, 14.8K honor and 52.92 gold.

There is some talk that these quests will offer 20 shards instead of 10, which means you won't be much worse off for the shards. But the honor reward is a huge nerf whichever way you look at it. You will now have to participate in more WG's to earn the same amount of honor as you were in the old system....which kind of defeats the purpose. Or go back to the instanced BG's, which many people no longer participate in because they are bored of them, or sick of always being on a losing side.

Cheers,
S.

[Tasty]

TBH I couldn't be happier with the changes. Its going to make gearing up my teams SOOOO much easier :|

Sadly this is not correct.

At the moment the daily quests offer rewards of 3 shards, 1.2k honor and 13.23 gold. Excluding the tower quest (becuase its a pain in the ass), there are 4 dailies which you can easily box:

1. Victory in Wintergrasp
2. Kill 10 players / NPC's
3. Defend / Kill 3 siege vehicles
4. Gather 10 quest items by killing revenants / players

So each day you can be earning 12 shards, 4.8K honor and 52.92 gold - over a week that adds up to 84 shards, 33.6K honor and 370.44 gold.

The new weekly quests are offering 10 shards, 3.7K honor and 13.23 gold - so that makes a total of 40 shards, 14.8K honor and 52.92 gold.

There is some talk that these quests will offer 20 shards instead of 10, which means you won't be much worse off for the shards. But the honor reward is a huge nerf whichever way you look at it. You will now have to participate in more WG's to earn the same amount of honor as you were in the old system....which kind of defeats the purpose. Or go back to the instanced BG's, which many people no longer participate in because they are bored of them, or sick of always being on a losing side.

Cheers,
S.

Sorry I should have been clearer. I meant it in the sense that I absolutely despise wintergrasp and so only having to go there once to get my honor each week makes me happyface. Yeah I love PvP. No I don't love getting stuck in between 30 horde and 30 alliance aoeing each other then lagging for the next 5 minutes till I catch up and find out that I missed out on completing the siege vehicle daily by one :p

edit: Yes I realise Blizzard are in a precarious situation with WG atm so its not easy for them :)

[Stealthy]

Someone in the WoW forums made the suggestion of making the weekly quest rewards offer 7 times as much, but be 7 times harder to achieve. E.g. kill 70 players, attack / defend 21 siege vehicles.etc.

The hardcore players would be knocking them over as soon as they were up, whereas the more casual players would complete them slowly over the week...

To avoid the end-of-week rush, have the 7 day lockout timer start from when you accept the quest.

This seems like a good idea to me...

Cheers,
S

[Otlecs]

Someone in the WoW forums made the suggestion of making the weekly quest rewards offer 7 times as much, but be 7 times harder to achieve. E.g. kill 70 players, attack / defend 21 siege vehicles.etc.
Like all truly great ideas, this is blindingly obvious and elegantly simple.

I hope Blizz listens to that one.

[moji]

Like all truly great ideas, this is blindingly obvious and elegantly simple, and will be ignored. Instead, blizz will come up with a similar, more complex version for half the rewards, but take 5 times longer and require you to collect something.
fxt

[Stealthy]

I just read on MMO-Champion that they are also nerfing the amount of honor gained from building destroyed / defended, and a victory / loss.

:thumbdown:

[Dominian]

Someone in the WoW forums made the suggestion of making the weekly quest rewards offer 7 times as much, but be 7 times harder to achieve. E.g. kill 70 players, attack / defend 21 siege vehicles.etc.

The hardcore players would be knocking them over as soon as they were up, whereas the more casual players would complete them slowly over the week...

To avoid the end-of-week rush, have the 7 day lockout timer start from when you accept the quest.

This seems like a good idea to me...

Cheers,
S

I cant see how it will release the pressure on WG even with a 7 day lockout timer.

Last thursday i managed to get 1/10 kills when we were attacking the WG fortress(since we win 99% due to sieg engines blinks around unstoppable due to the lag) We were 6 full raids before the portal to WG opened.. Alliance know that they lose when they defend aka most cba to go there and the alliance ends up with 15 tenacity. Ususaly having tenacity is a bad thing but we were just not able to get kills and ranks since they all were sitting on 60-80k hp and ususaly hiding in the fortresse. We capped all the workshops but they managed to steal our workshop once and build 3 sieg engines that took down all our towers.

defending 21 sieg engines would be easy to get done since you dont have to be in the same raid as thoose who drive them, changing it to the same with players would fix this problem.

The point must be to free the server load and make WG for thoose who thinks its fun and isnt there just for the free honor.

The best idea would be to increase the honor gained from bgs.

[Stealthy]

I cant see how it will release the pressure on WG even with a 7 day lockout timer.

Last thursday i managed to get 1/10 kills when we were attacking the WG fortress(since we win 99% due to sieg engines blinks around unstoppable due to the lag) We were 6 full raids before the portal to WG opened.. Alliance know that they lose when they defend aka most cba to go there and the alliance ends up with 15 tenacity. Ususaly having tenacity is a bad thing but we were just not able to get kills and ranks since they all were sitting on 60-80k hp and ususaly hiding in the fortresse. We capped all the workshops but they managed to steal our workshop once and build 3 sieg engines that took down all our towers.

defending 21 sieg engines would be easy to get done since you dont have to be in the same raid as thoose who drive them, changing it to the same with players would fix this problem.

The point must be to free the server load and make WG for thoose who thinks its fun and isnt there just for the free honor.

The best idea would be to increase the honor gained from bgs.

The kill quests can be completed from killing the NPC guards in between battles now (protip - killing NPC guards during the battle ranks you up as well!). But I agree - there should be more honor from other BG's - when WotLK was introduced, Blizz inflated the price of the pvp items, but the honor from BG's remained the same pretty much - making them much less attractive to people looking to gear up.

Cheers,
S.

[Dominian]

But yes i do understand people who play on normal populated servers or were WG runs smooth is fustrated by theese changes. On my server WG doesnt run smooth at all and crash the server, generaly its 20-30 mins were i run to the fortress and afk a while outside.

The way i ususaly get my alliance kills is to farm them at the ally camp in the east wich works aswell.

[Ellay]

If you have 50 players vs 50 players in WoW it doesn't lag, if you have the same amount in WG it doesn't lag. When vehicles starting destroying walls/etc, thats when it falls apart. I'm not a coder myself, just a viewer but I'd say they have some major memory leaks in how their destructable terrain works.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

If you have 50 players vs 50 players in WoW it doesn't lag, if you have the same amount in WG it doesn't lag. When vehicles starting destroying walls/etc, thats when it falls apart. I'm not a coder myself, just a viewer but I'd say they have some major memory leaks in how their destructable terrain works.I code a bit as a hobby and I'll agree in principle. Not necessarily leaks but performance problems fo sho. Things like that (remember the corpse lag in SS/TM?) make me fondly remember DAoC relic raids. Sure, you might have gotten 5-10fps on the really big fights at the relic keeps but at least they COULD have a couple hundred people in a zone and still have it playable.

[Maxion]

I also had the idea of portals or Uldar style dialogue based teleporters at the GYs - or somewhere. To get to other places on the quickly, like your objective location.

You can already port around WG, just talk to the spirit rezzer while dead and it can port you to any other graveyard your faction controls.