INC -----> New hardware for 6 boxing. (OC progress update)

[moosejaw]

I dug deep and found enough $$ to purchase the bare necessities for an I7 12gb machine. I will have my 4 day weekend coming up this Friday and hopefully all the hardware is here by then.

What I am getting:

Vista home ('http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0015M2OB0') Ram ('http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=C13-6136') MB ('http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4366643&Sku=A455-2868') Processer ('http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4240166&Sku=CP1-I7-920')

I already have a spare case, power supply, video card and hard drives. The bare minimum stuff is ~ $800. My Quad 6600 machine is going to become my HTPC, which is a step up from the current P4 2.6 ghz HTPC I currently have configured.

I am also working on getting an Ubuntu Linux distro up and running for EQ2. What I have learned so far is ATI video cards blow chunks in opengl mode. I have to swap in one of 8800 cards to continue testing. Once I get the game stable I will work on Innerspace integration. Now that should be fun! :P

[Enndo]

Nice! You won't regret it. I love mine. I went with the EVGA X58 board though, I did alot of research and found too many bad reviews of the p6t deluxe to sink money into it. I do hear it works great for some, but doesn't work at all for most and asus tech support is a nightmare lately.

[BadAnti]

Just curious... How many toons do you think you will be able to run on that one machine?

[moosejaw]

On my current setup (Q6600 @3.0, 8gb ram, 4 older raptors in software raid), I can run all 6 but it is very sluggish and the processor is very close to saturation. It is playable but I would like the extra headroom on the processor. I should be able to do all 6 very comfortably with the I7 and a mild overclock. I should be able to turn up the master's graphics enough to see spell effects and such.

[BadAnti]

Right now I am running: XFX 790i ultra, E8500, 2x 8800GT's, 2GB DDR3, and XP 32bit. I am going to have to bite the bullet and upgrade to a 64 bit Vista or Windows 7. I hate reinstalling windows though... I am one of those guys that will go years on a single install, just to avoid reinstalling all my programs (mostly games). However, I am feeling the memory crunch just running my two toons. I really like my eye candy and I have already had to turn down my vid options to "balanced". My plan though is to drop a quad in this, and upgrade the family PC to the E8500.



Is there any kind of rule or estimate about how much ram you should have per toon?

[Herc130]

I just do a fresh install, patch, get everything running right. Load all programs and games (FSX and EQ1/2) all the add-on's I have for FSX. Activate everything. Make sure everything runs right, then I burn an image of the HDD with Acronis. When I think things may be a problem because of the OS, I reload off the image I have. Then it's just a matter of a few updates and maybe a program or two I started using after the image burn.


Also moving to i7. Just ordered parts two days ago. Was waiting till Microsoft comes out with a new Flightsim, but looks like that won't be happening anytime soon since they have closed down that division and layed off most of the people involved with it (damn the bad economy). So I said screw it and will now make the move to i7. Not for boxing, I am of the 1 computer 1 account type, but FSX is very CPU bound and have been doing a scratch build case for a while (took a break, went on a few deployments, got lazy and haven't gotten back in the spirit to complete it yet) that will house 9 (maybe 12) radiators and a whole bunch of other cooling stuff besides the normal computer parts and hopefully I can overclock the i7 to over 4ghz as a 24/7. Totally pointless for boxing MMO's, but may help me with FSX and eventually Fighter OPs.

Went with the 920 and the eVGA Classified ('http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188048') and will probably get this ram ('http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145237') if the 7-8-7-20 don't come back in stock and drop down to $400ish when I am done with the case build. I think you will be happy with the p6T. Tons of people use it. Lots of forums have stickies on setting it up for overclocking. Probably one of the most used x58 boards. Bad reviews, probably more so then other x58 boards, but probably because it's got a ton more reviews overall then other x58 boards, because lots of people have it.

[BadAnti]

I just had a friend give me a copy of acronis. He seems to like it. He also hooked me up with some utility for slip streaming(?) my drivers and settings into a Vista install. AND I have an unused copy of Vista 64 sitting on my shelf... I guess all signs point to me doing a fresh Vista install. Then I can order more memory. Just curious Herc, do you fly C-130's for the military?

[Ellay]

Acronis is awesome sauce to the second power.

[Herc130]

I am just a loadmaster on C-130's for the USCG amongst other things. Won't ever deploy our birds to the middle east, I am stuck doing central america, the islands around our AoR and the occasional SAR conventions in Hong Kong, Japan, Russia and such. It's pretty rough, sometimes they stick us in hotels that don't even have a baday in the room. Don't even get me started with slow wifi service.

[Frosty]

On my current setup (Q6600 @3.0, 8gb ram, 4 older raptors in software raid), I can run all 6 but it is very sluggish and the processor is very close to saturation. It is playable but I would like the extra headroom on the processor. I should be able to do all 6 very comfortably with the I7 and a mild overclock. I should be able to turn up the master's graphics enough to see spell effects and such.
I bet you can turn the master's graphics up more than just a little. :P
I've got mine almost maxed on the master, and you'll have more RAM, and I think your video card is better than mine? (I can't remember) .

PS - HURRY UP!!! :P

[Rms]

Acronis is awesome sauce to the second power.

Cube that!



Congrats on the system! I just did the same thing. Although my GTX285 came half DOA so RMAing. QQ.

[moosejaw]

About disk imaging. I use a Windows Home Server so I have all the images for all the windows installs saved on the server. It is so nice to run a backup, swap out a disk then restore it with no worries. Especially the boot drives.

I am using a single Ati 4870 1gb for the gaming video. The HTPC will get the 8800gt. Should I want to game with Linux/Ubuntu, I have to use a Nvidia card for OpenGl which really sucks.

Btw, I did 11 years in the Navy in Submarine service. :P

[moosejaw]

I order those parts at 5 am (central) Monday morning and everthing is out for delivery today (1 day later) with the exception of the Vista dvd which is going via snail mail.

I really like being close to warehouses. :thumbup:

[Herc130]

Did you have to pay for tax? I know Tiger is based out of florida, but not sure where their wharehouses are. If you haven't gotten an aftermarket cooler and looking to do so, highly recommend

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=450&zenid=e28030b9820f23238431d8c01fc0e95f

or

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/

Lot more choices and for me, cheapest shipping since they do USPS and there is no such thing as free shipping to Hawaii (except Amazon, but amazon doesn't really sell high end cooling gear)

[Oatboat]

Man I'm excited for you... I upgraded my ram and operating system and i thought i was a kid in a candy store... a new computer would probably make me go bonkers.

[moosejaw]

I was going to recycle my zalman cooler since the new MB is drilled for both patterns (dualcore and i7). But when I went to install the backing plate I see there is a large reinforcement plate for the cpu retention on the underside that screws everything up. There is significant interference with the MB tray and I really don't want to get out the sheet metal cutters to make room. My HTPC has water cooling for silencing and even that plate is incompatible. So I will need a new heat sink now despite my efforts to recycle. X(


Everything is assembled and I tried to get windows 7 beta installed this morning from the dvd I burned a while back. Windows 7 install just hangs up once the mouse goes active. So I have to wait for the snail mail now for the new Vista license. At least I can finish up the HTPC setup and get it done right while I wait.

Oh yeah, the system started up with out a problem with 6 gb of ram installed. Boy this new ram standard is very finicky anyone building an I7 machine needs to really look over the ram configurations of their MB because overclocking has some serious limitations on what you can and can not install in what slots. My ddr2 800 ram setup worked with out much complaining. The manual for this board states the Intel standard only supports 4 populated slots, in a specific order, for dd3 1600 OC. My ram supports the XMP profiles which, I believe, makes it much easier to OC the ram by selecting a predefined profile.

Whew! Now its time for work. :)

[Frosty]

I'm pretty sure there was something I was supposed to do with the RAM in my computer...but it works and I'm too chicken to play around with it. :whistling:

[moosejaw]

Did you have to pay for tax? I know Tiger is based out of florida, but not sure where their wharehouses are. If you haven't gotten an aftermarket cooler and looking to do so, highly recommend

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=450&zenid=e28030b9820f23238431d8c01fc0e95f

or

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/

Lot more choices and for me, cheapest shipping since they do USPS and there is no such thing as free shipping to Hawaii (except Amazon, but amazon doesn't really sell high end cooling gear)Thanks for the links. While I was cruising for a new heat sink I found this ('http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118045'). My problem with the MB brace is solved for $5 plus shipping.

[Herc130]

Just curious what stepping 920 you got from Tiger. On the CPU box there is a white sticker with a bunch of scan codes, prduct code, UPC, etc.

One number will be "S-spec: SLBXX

If it's SLBCH , it's a CO stepping
If it's SLBEJ, it's DO stepping


mine is a CO ;(

[kazxex]

I'm also upgrading to a new i7 soon, for those that haven't bought a 920 yet thought I'd reccomend trying to get a chip with D0 stepping as they supposably overclock to 4.0+ speeds even better and easier

http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=584

I'm currently able to run 6 with ok performance on a q9450 (oc to 3.2) w/8gigs ram, a GTX295, 30" dell and vista x64. I experimented alot and what I am doing to increase performance (using Innerspace) is to set all windows to 1024x768 resolution and I set the 5 slaves to render 512x384 windows with 100% zoom on rollover (this way they expand to 1024x768). After I launch I resize the main window to be much larger. I give up mouse repeating this way because the resolutions are different but I can play the main in a much larger window this way and I don't use window swapping but rather just mouse over slave windows (which expand to full size) when I need to.

I believe EQ2 uses alot of software rendering techniques (or just very bad code) and a move to a i7 cpu should provide a big boost. For those that have moved to i7, have you tried it with and without hyperthreading to see which gives better performance in this case?

Also I just saw this Asus board that can run 2x socket 1366 xeons http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131378&Tpk=Asus%20Z8NA-D6C which might be even better with 8 real cores vs 4 on the 920.

[moosejaw]

Just curious what stepping 920 you got from Tiger. On the CPU box there is a white sticker with a bunch of scan codes, prduct code, UPC, etc.

One number will be "S-spec: SLBXX

If it's SLBCH , it's a CO stepping
If it's SLBEJ, it's DO stepping


mine is a CO ;(I'll check my box tonight. Crossing my fingers for the DO. I have been working on setting up the HTPC to get my tv recordings back up before I miss any favorite shows (read: Eliza Dushku).



I'm also upgrading to a new i7 soon, for those that haven't bought a 920 yet thought I'd reccomend trying to get a chip with D0 stepping as they supposably overclock to 4.0+ speeds even better and easier

http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=584

I'm currently able to run 6 with ok performance on a q9450 (oc to 3.2) w/8gigs ram, a GTX295, 30" dell and vista x64. I experimented alot and what I am doing to increase performance (using Innerspace) is to set all windows to 1024x768 resolution and I set the 5 slaves to render 512x384 windows with 100% zoom on rollover (this way they expand to 1024x768). After I launch I resize the main window to be much larger. I give up mouse repeating this way because the resolutions are different but I can play the main in a much larger window this way and I don't use window swapping but rather just mouse over slave windows (which expand to full size) when I need to.

I believe EQ2 uses alot of software rendering techniques (or just very bad code) and a move to a i7 cpu should provide a big boost. For those that have moved to i7, have you tried it with and without hyperthreading to see which gives better performance in this case?

Also I just saw this Asus board that can run 2x socket 1366 xeons http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131378&Tpk=Asus%20Z8NA-D6C which might be even better with 8 real cores vs 4 on the 920.

As I said above the Quad 6600 was a real dog with 6. I am hoping that I use the full features of windowsnapper and repeater with the I7.

I agree with the "bad code" analysis. I will do some testing with different configs to see what works best. I am thinking of locking instances to each core thread (except the main) for the full hyperthreading and assigning all cores to all instances with hyperthreading off. I know that core/thread priority was a little bit funky on the Q6600 and I am not sure if that was M$oft thread scheduler, IS or EQ acting up. Most likely it was thread scheduler due to the heavy load saturation. Either way I should have some testing numbers by this weekend.

And stop showing me gear I can't afford!! :P

[kazxex]

I did some further research and it appears that while there are several dual socket 1366 xeon motherboards, almost none of them have overclocking options and most have only 1 pci-e x16 slot so that setup is probably not going to perform better than a modestly overclocked 920 for 6 boxing. I live close to a Frys though so I may just have try building one and returning the parts just to find out.

[Herc130]

I doubt EQ2 makes good use of 2 cores, let alone 4. 8 cores? Save your money unless you use an application that actually makes use of it, because EQ2 will not. I think having a higher clock speed will help, but more cores, not so much.

Just got an email from technet. Looks like WIndows 7 RC (release candidate...generally what retail will be unless they get a surprise) is ready for download by technet subscribers. Also, looks like MS is feeling warmhearted...guilt? for releaseing so early and making vista have such a short life or so many early problems with vista, that in one month, Windows 7 RC will be open for all to download and use for free for a year. I had no plans to use Windows 7 beta, but an RC is just as good as retail really, so think I will be switching everything to windows 7. Hopefully technet users get indiffinet use of it.

[kazxex]

I doubt EQ2 makes good use of 2 cores, let alone 4. 8 cores? Save your money unless you use an application that actually makes use of it, because EQ2 will not. I think having a higher clock speed will help, but more cores, not so much.

Just got an email from technet. Looks like WIndows 7 RC (release candidate...generally what retail will be unless they get a surprise) is ready for download by technet subscribers. Also, looks like MS is feeling warmhearted...guilt? for releaseing so early and making vista have such a short life or so many early problems with vista, that in one month, Windows 7 RC will be open for all to download and use for free for a year. I had no plans to use Windows 7 beta, but an RC is just as good as retail really, so think I will be switching everything to windows 7. Hopefully technet users get indiffinet use of it.I guess you are refferring to a single EQ2 process? I was referring to multiboxing 6 copies of EQ2 on one machine, each copy needs its own core for best performance, so 6 boxing = 6 cores ideally. 6 copies of EQ2 throttles a core 2 quad chip, I'm sure it performs much better on the i7 though.

[Frosty]

I guess you are refferring to a single EQ2 process? I was referring to multiboxing 6 copies of EQ2 on one machine, each copy needs its own core for best performance, so 6 boxing = 6 cores ideally. 6 copies of EQ2 throttles a core 2 quad chip, I'm sure it performs much better on the i7 though.

I'm 6 boxing all on one machine and I have them all set to use all 4 cores each. I tried seperating them out, but it didn't seem to make a difference. It ran fine either way with my master running at almost max graphic settings..usually 30-60fps.

That being said, I have a dual-core system that won't even run one copy of the game. But it's a laptop with a crappy video card too. :P

[kazxex]

Frosty, what screen resolution do you run the clones at? and the main?

[mesmerise]

intel I7 920 with 6 gigs ( will probably push to 12 soon )and some 4870 1gig with vista 64 with a 24" wide screen, 5 characters on this computer with innerspace/ISboxer toolkit

Main window is 1280x780

2 windows with 640x600, i have set spell icons size larger then i see what i hit ;p

the 2 last are 640x420 ( starting to be small ;o ), same icons size larger so i can see them

i need to test the rollover from innerspace ;o

and the last character is alone on another computer ( if i would 6 on the same screen i should buy some glasses too lol )

[Frosty]

Frosty, what screen resolution do you run the clones at? and the main?
I think they are all set to 1024x768 in the game options. BUT, my monitor is some crazy wide-screen format, so I'm not 100% sure what it's set to via WindowSnapper.
I've also got the symlink or whatever it's called in ISBoxer so each accounts can keep their own settings.
So even though the window is set to 1024x768, the follower windows are rendered at a much lower resolution, and almost everything turned off or down.

I'm also limiting the follower min-max FPS to something like 12-20.

[Frosty]

Did ya make it in game yet Moosejaw? I'm not sure I have your right toon /friended =P

I'm on Uhmono though..if ya see me....and I'm not afk.

[moosejaw]

I was on for a short time last night and the hardware improvements are amazing. I am not overclocking anything although I do have the new Zalman monster copper heatsink (the 9900) and it dwarfs my older 9500 heatsink (which is destined for an older P4). Processor temps were holding in the 40-50c range and there wasn't any stuttering or any funny business going on. Running the graphics settings up to balanced had minimal effect on fps.

I tried with hyperthreading enabled, and all instances over all cores, with good results except that the main will shift all its load to the last core. This is behavior I saw with the Q6600 also except that the last processor core was always maxed out on the Q6600. I tried to make the main only use the first 4 threads and the behavior stayed the same, the last core/thread assigned got all the load. I then disabled hyperthreading and released the main to use all cores again but the behavior remains. At least with hyperthreading disabled the overall load balance isn't too lopsided. Keeping a relative balance across all cores should help with processor life as I am sure a hight Delta T between cores can't be healthy in the long run.

Addressing the ram issue, I have 6gb installed and only had 4.5 gb commit in task manager with all 6 instances running. The slaves were turned down on everything and the main had solo type settings for sound/video/etc. I am using the Windows 7 beta and I will install the RC when it becomes available next week. Hopefully M$oft will allow RC direct upgrades to final release this time /crosses fingers.

Still having problems with the HTPC. My tuner cards (Hauppauge HVR-1600's) have Vista drivers and are recognized but my ATSC (ota digital) tuner refuses to function. The analog tuner works but I don't need that. I want my tv back!!!! ;(

[moosejaw]

HTPC problems are solved. There actually wasn't a problem at all. It seems that in the time between my disassembling the old HTPC and setting up the new one a contractor put a deep wood screw through the roof antenna coax. I pulled out my rabbit ears and got a good signal on a few channels. Then I checked the building coax with my Fluke and it was shorted. I am going to help the maintenance guy to fix the coax in the morning. I need all my channels back!!! :wacko:

[moosejaw]

Current system condition.

Using the Windows 7 RC and things are very stable.

Processor speed- 3.1 ghz. Simply bumped the base clock up didn't touch voltages (see ram). Hyperthreading is off due to funky core assignments. Using a Zalman 9900 heat sink on the cpu with all fans bios controll for silencing. I must say there is a lot of cooling surface area on these next generation of coolers.

Ram- 8 gb. The 6gb wasn't going to cut it so I dropped in a fourth 2 gb module (I bought two 6 gb sets). My board supports a 4th module at 1600 ram speed (wierd huh?). Not running at 1600 mhz yet, I have the ram down clocked to 1200 ish for now. I am using the XMP 1600 profile for the ram which inserts known good settings for the ram including the voltages(works great so far).

Ran a prime95 stress test for 8 hours while I slept last night. Temps held below 60C with about 70F ambient in the room.

Next is bumping the clock up to achieve 3.5-3.6. Once cpu speed is set, raise the memory clock up as close to 1600 as possible while keeping a stable memtest. Then a final prime95 to validate the cooling/OC.

Edit: My I7 920 is the slow stepping, so I will stick to a lower/safer OC.

[Frosty]

I just threw mine together and started playing. :whistling:

[moosejaw]

I have played a little bit this last week. Just not very much. :(

Media pc is giving me fits. I updated the bios when troubleshooting the tuner cards and I forgot to write down the OC numbers (which it really needs to run) so I have been fighting that machine to get it stable again. Can't have it crash in the middle of a video encoding process.

I think I am going to unlock all my exp and just level like crazy. I see how Ellay's progress is going while I am eating dust lol.

[Frosty]

I unlocked and got 3 levels last night. :thumbup:

Aggro'd the kids tonight though.

[waterval]

I upgraded from AMD 3.2Ghz and 8Gig's of ram to:

I7 920 @ 3.2Ghz, 12Gig, 2x vertex 30G in raid. The system can now handle 6 boxes with ease. 5 on ultra low settings and one on medium but without shadows and flora.

Graphics card is 8800GT 512MB. gonna upgrade it as soon as the dx11 candy hits the stores.

[Owltoid]

I upgraded from AMD 3.2Ghz and 8Gig's of ram to:

I7 920 @ 3.2Ghz, 12Gig, 2x vertex 30G in raid. The system can now handle 6 boxes with ease. 5 on ultra low settings and one on medium but without shadows and flora.

Graphics card is 8800GT 512MB. gonna upgrade it as soon as the dx11 candy hits the stores.

an i7 920 at 3.2Ghz? Are you sure it's a 920?

[waterval]

yes, i overclocked it, theyre sturdy processors that aint running hot.