Setting up a Melee boxing team HOW TO** (ie how to use click to interact to make melee boxing work! )

[ghonosyph and the moocrew]

okely dokely neighbors! I posted this on another thread, and thought i should probably NOT bury it in someone elses thread cuz i think it deserves its own :) Hopefully someone can copy/paste this into the stickies somewhere if many people find this useful (though its really simple to set up if you've been boxing a while and understand the mechanics lol) Here goes: good luck have fun rawrawrawr!
PS this example uses the DEATHKNIGHT class for that is what i've most experience tho its fairly simple to use whatever else, the principals are the same


Here's what you need to do:

1. Set Up your toons as normal(i use a focus for leader system so i'll explain that way, i think this is the best way to do this as its REALLY hard to do it leaderlessly... im not gonna explain why but you'll have to trust me :)

2. Set up a bar with however many characters you have, have that many buttons on it for each toon so you can focus them on demand(that way you can focus any of your guys and use them as a leader i use my F9 thru F12 keys as they're easy access and out of the way so you dont accidentally press and change focus(that can be messy))

3. Set up your first skill in your rotation or whatever you pull with, Im using DK spells for this example (icy touch for everyone pretty much i would imagine) with a macro thats something like -->
/target focustarget
/cast icy touch
what this macro will do will be to lead off your damage dealing with auto targeting whatever your main/focus has targeted. ***(i dont do this however cuz if you want to sic your dks on something else with interact and want to use this skill then it auto targets what you're on and messes that up. What I do is to have a key (SHIFT+F) that does the /target focustarget that way i have to manually control the alts, forcing them to target and basically making them have a sticky target system till the mobs dead :) Once you get a feel for this system its only a matter of time that you'd do it this way.

******** a side note from this, the reason i use a separate key to force targeting is so that i can put each DK on a separate mob at the start of the fight for: Death grips, Interrupts, CC. This lets my tank tab target as well getting threat on everything while my dks stay on what needs to be cc'd gripped or interrupted, so i can still tank :)

4. okay i got side tracked there lol numba FOUR! WOOT!: now that you've deciphered how your alts are going to get their target you need to bind your key for interact with target(i use Z as its in a good spot and easily spammed, yet still out of the way. Looking back, i'd prefer to put it on my E key(but i use E for other stuff so i cant lol) so it can be more easily spammed (for pvp purposes and when stuff moves around faster you need to spam it more to stay in range) Either way, put this somewhere close to your dps rotation keys cuz you may very well need to hit it SEVERAL times per fight

5. OKAY so now that you've set up your melee keybinds dont forget to use your follow key, for when shtuff goes crazy and you need to fix a guy thats running off, or when the mob is dead and you gotta start the chase to the next one. Put this on a modifier and on a key close by but still out of the way i use F but i'd recommend using SHIFT F or SHIFT G... or if you have a mouse with extra buttons and you're not using them put BOTH interact with target on one key, and SHIFT + that key for follow.
(SIDE NOTE AGAIN!) JAMBA USERS!! **** MAKE DAMN SURE***** MAKE DAMN SURE ****** that you have auto follow strobing turned OFFFFF OFF OFFFFOFFOFFOFFOFF for this to work!

6. Make sure auto strobing in jamba is turned off! (if you use it)

7. Make sure CLICK TO MOVE IS ENABLED

8. Basic combat: oh goody! i see a mob! ROMG target it with main( on a side note, i usually leave my main character on a manual control system so that i dont interact with target on him i prefer it this way but at the same time its nice having to not have to do anything pretty much lol. If you do this, you'd have to unbind the interact with target key every time you change whoever is leading, this is strictly up to you how you do it tho, you could possibly just use a shift, alt, ctrl modifier for each different toon but then you'd have a lot of spamming going on tho manual control of each slave would be nice for this lol perhaps its possible since you have two slots you can keybind interact target with!) SO you see a mob, target with main, force your slaves to target with your main assist key, click interact with target keybind----> should lead to your guys all running toward the badguy to face smash em and stopping where the mob is, basically "clicking to move" to the spot where the mob was.

8 1/2. Sometimes the mob will move when they get agro on your main/slaves due to the way agro works, when you first interacted your toons were basically "clicked" to move to where that mob WAS... they will continue and stop at that point, so you may not be in range, just click your interact key one more time :) your slaves will turn and get in range, from there its just basic beatdown of mobs ie dps rotation(drop your diseases, spread them, aoe, dump runic power lol). I've grown accustom to setting up my pulling spell with chains of ice (with my target focustarget in that macro)o put the mob rooted, then interacting so my guys run over to it, this prevents this little out of range problem somewhat, but it doesnt work for bossfights andthose immune to the root effects

9. Well then, that covers basic melee run down with a focus based system... This is for people to have a break down of how to set up a melee team. :) hope it helps communitY! I LUVS JOO! <3
:thumbup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: 8o :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbup:

[Tasty]

While we're on the subject, has anyone else had problems with alts running away. This works fine for me but on plenty of occasions when I rehit my interact button one or more of my alts will run through the target and just run off into the sunset :P

[chazz]

Yeah, that just happened to me.
Was running out of Deathholme and attacked the two mobs 'guarding' the entrance when my 4 shamans just decided to run off into the sunset, I repressed my interact button (spammed it even) to no avail, they just kept going aggroing every mob through the 'scar whateveritiscalled' and eventually 3 of them died of Lurzan while one of them kept going pretty far until he hit a wall.
Normally when this happens they come running back when I re-hit the interact button, however some times they come back and instead of adjusting correctly they keep running the other way instead.

[Nisch]

I'm not sure why it's made out to be so complicated. You don't need any of the click to move or any of that.

Your spells as a DK, Warrior, Rogue will start your attack anyhow, and if it doesn't a /startattack and a /follow <main> is all that's needed.

Plus, my auto follow strobe is on with no problems, and there's no need for the interact with target key.

[thinus]

I'm not sure why it's made out to be so complicated. You don't need any of the click to move or any of that.

Your spells as a DK, Warrior, Rogue will start your attack anyhow, and if it doesn't a /startattack and a /follow <main> is all that's needed.

Plus, my auto follow strobe is on with no problems, and there's no need for the interact with target key.

And you also have to position mobs carefully to make sure all your alts are in melee range.
What the OP is describing is setting up a system so your melee alts will *MOVE* to the target by hitting the interact key.

[ghonosyph and the moocrew]

yes the old follow will work, but with click to move, and the interact keybind its basically an auto follow for the mobs, so you dont HAVE to get exact position and start attacking with follow. This new system completely makes that irrelevant now, ie its not needed anymore... it still works tho :) Just this new way is better hehe

[Nisch]

I'm not sure why it's made out to be so complicated. You don't need any of the click to move or any of that.

Your spells as a DK, Warrior, Rogue will start your attack anyhow, and if it doesn't a /startattack and a /follow <main> is all that's needed.

Plus, my auto follow strobe is on with no problems, and there's no need for the interact with target key.

And you also have to position mobs carefully to make sure all your alts are in melee range.
What the OP is describing is setting up a system so your melee alts will *MOVE* to the target by hitting the interact key.

I'm not sure how you mean "carefully"

The field of melee is great enough that you really don't need to be careful.

You walk through the mob, you turn your main around.........and you're all in range.

That's why I posted a video of it. Even showing that multiple mobs were easy to position.

[Nisch]

yes the old follow will work, but with click to move, and the interact keybind its basically an auto follow for the mobs, so you dont HAVE to get exact position and start attacking with follow. This new system completely makes that irrelevant now, ie its not needed anymore... it still works tho :) Just this new way is better hehe

That's one thing I miss about Dark Age of Camelot. When I wanted to attack something, I would just /stick my 6 toons to the mob, and they would stick to them even if they went running off.

I do see your point in using the click to move, but I am simply stating that it's not needed to run an all melee group. I have leveled up all the melee classes, even before the "Interact with Target" button, and positioning is as simple as running through the mob and turning around.

Heck, with my paladins, non-elite mobs at my level, I one shot and just walk through, without even stopping most of the time. I've even found that if you play with the latency within the game, you can get your toons to hit the mob when it appears to be chasing you from behind.

[shaeman]

I understand what you are saying Nisch.

I've done minor multiboxing with a couple of melee (not running instances) and found that running through the mob with the tank and just waiting for the mob to settle then attacking worked wonders.

I'm trying to think of ways that Interact with and click to move would be superior.

I guess being able to send your team to a pesky caster that's broken out of CC and not been line of sighted whilst still tanking the main group might be nice.

I'm wondering if it will simplify some fights in violet hold - I'm thinking specifically of the boss where the orbs drop and only one toon can see them.
I was thinking a /target <name of orb things>
/target focustarget followed by the interact click would send the melee toon that can see them around dps ing them whilst everyone else
would continue on.

Or could you send one of your toons over to trigger the candles in violet hold if you are struggling.

I'm also thinking of fights like anomalus where you could send your team running to a spark then to the next one without having to drag them over with the tank.
(then again anomalus tends to go immune round about the same time so maybe not worth it).
Frost tombs on Prince Keleseth (although if everyone is on top of each other and put down aoe it's not too big a deal)

I'm not sure how useful all of the above would be, as I'm guessing there are work arounds for all of it.
I like the idea of it in principle, I'll have to see how it goes in practice when I actually get my melee team running instances.

[thinus]

I'm not sure why it's made out to be so complicated. You don't need any of the click to move or any of that.

Your spells as a DK, Warrior, Rogue will start your attack anyhow, and if it doesn't a /startattack and a /follow <main> is all that's needed.

Plus, my auto follow strobe is on with no problems, and there's no need for the interact with target key.

And you also have to position mobs carefully to make sure all your alts are in melee range.
What the OP is describing is setting up a system so your melee alts will *MOVE* to the target by hitting the interact key.

I'm not sure how you mean "carefully"

The field of melee is great enough that you really don't need to be careful.

You walk through the mob, you turn your main around.........and you're all in range.

That's why I posted a video of it. Even showing that multiple mobs were easy to position.

I don't know what game you are playing but in my world mobs are not easy to position. Mobs tend to run to weird positions when they switch aggro, frequently they will run behind the target they are attacking. Most of the time running through a mob will work but sometimes they will not stand still and just turn around, they will path to a different location which will probably be out of melee range. Maybe it is just because of latency on my connection but with a 200+ ping I *GUARANTEE* mobs are not easy to position.

And when you get multiple mobs they tend to spread out around the target that has aggro which frequently places them far enough to the side or behind the group so they are out of melee range. I know, I have been meleeing with my 5 shaman from lvl 1 to lvl 55 where they are currently at and there are lots of times I am able to land spells on a target but I get the "You need to be facing your target to attack" message. Not to mention stoneclaw aggro pulling mobs into weird positions.

Then you get ranged mobs that root. When a ranged mob that roots has aggro on a target and it roots the target it will run out of melee range and use ranged attacks and they seem to run in a random direction as well which will often put them behind your group.


So, yes, you don't NEED the interacting but for some of us having problems with mobs pathing weirdly it will certainly help more than it will harm.

[shaeman]

I'm playing the same game as you are. :)


I have been meleeing with my 5 shaman

This looks to be the big difference between us. The issues you are facing are due to aggro bouncing between your 5 shaman due to random crits across your characters, it doesn't have anything to do with latency. You mentioned issues with stoneclaw. You could place your stoneclaws prior to a pull in front of your group, back up and then hit the mob you are going to burn down with a lightning bolt to pull. You should lose the adds in your stoneclaw farm and pick the next one to burn down. It won't help for the entire pull, but might make things slightly less chaotic. I believe frostshock has more aggro than flameshock and you could take the aggro reducing talents on 4 of the shaman, and skip it on the main character (who is the one that frostshocks the mob when it gets near). This might help a bit with aggro bounce.

I've been dual boxing melee (nearly ready to start my 5 box in Northrend) and I've been using a bear druid and and enhancement shaman.
The advantage of the tank is that I have consistent threat, am very unlikely to draw aggro on the shaman and if i do the mob is automatically in melee range of that toon, and I just run the tank towards the shaman (or taunt).

Thanks for your response though - I definitely think I will be doing click to move for my team as it does have more benefits than I initially thought.

[thinus]

I'm playing the same game as you are. :)


I have been meleeing with my 5 shaman

This looks to be the big difference between us. The issues you are facing are due to aggro bouncing between your 5 shaman due to random crits across your characters, it doesn't have anything to do with latency. You mentioned issues with stoneclaw. You could place your stoneclaws prior to a pull in front of your group, back up and then hit the mob you are going to burn down with a lightning bolt to pull. You should lose the adds in your stoneclaw farm and pick the next one to burn down. It won't help for the entire pull, but might make things slightly less chaotic. I believe frostshock has more aggro than flameshock and you could take the aggro reducing talents on 4 of the shaman, and skip it on the main character (who is the one that frostshocks the mob when it gets near). This might help a bit with aggro bounce.

I don't have a *problem*. I kill things fine. I just don't agree that it is simple to position mobs for a melee only group.

[shaeman]

but for some of us having problems with mobs pathing weirdly

I never mentioned you having a problem - the above words are yours not mine.
I also never said you had an issue killing things.

All I did was suggest a few possible things that might have made life easier to make mob movement more predictable.
Just trying to help.

As i mentioned - the big difference between your melee group and mine - is that I'm running with a tank.
The tank has the aggro on the mob and doesn't lose it, so there are less positioning issues for me than for you.

[thinus]

but for some of us having problems with mobs pathing weirdly

I never mentioned you having a problem - the above words are yours not mine.
I also never said you had an issue killing things.

All I did was suggest a few possible things that might have made life easier to make mob movement more predictable.
Just trying to help.

As i mentioned - the big difference between your melee group and mine - is that I'm running with a tank.
The tank has the aggro on the mob and doesn't lose it, so there are less positioning issues for me than for you.

I have played everything in this game, solo and multi-box. Lots of mobs don't stand still, lots of mobs have aggro resets, lots of mobs have knockbacks on the tanks, lots of mobs have roots. I sometimes stand right on top of a mob and taking a step forward or backward can cause the mob to path to a different position. I find it a bit arrogant that you dismiss my latency theory out of hand and assume it is aggro switching. I can accept mobs pathing with aggro switching but usually if all my characters are in melee range then mobs don't path when they switch aggro.

They path when the character that has aggro moves.

I repeat, it is not a multi-box issue or an issue with aggro switching, it is a problem with mobs pathing to a different position when the character that has aggro moves.

I frequently encountered the issue with a hunter pet. The hunter pet tries to get behind the mob and keeps moving, the mob keeps pathing to attack the pet and both of them do a little dance off into the distance aggroing everything in the way.

And on the subject of my shaman team, I found it much easier for all of them to stand on top of each other and then I engage. Everyone is in melee range and I don't need to re-position anything, normally. I lose any attack from behind bonuses but I am not relying on melee damage. Stepping through a mob has never been a reliable technique for me and it has nothing to do with aggro switching.

[wolpak]

Using "click to move" and "interact with target" is extremely advantageous over follwoing and turning, especially since they are not mutually exclusive. You can use both if you feel you need to.

Follow and attack is after the fact attacking. You move to the mob, then spin yourself around and then attack. Interact with target is proactive. You issue your commands to your melee units before you enter battle. It is much more like you are a commander sending them in on a mission.

The main advantage is you know that they will all be in melee range and attacking the target. You also can easily switch to second target without having to issue another follow command. Click target number two, they attack. No need to worry about them facing the wrong direction and having to map buttons to turn them around. This turns them automatically.

There are very few instances where Blizzard allows you to move your units without having to hit the arrow keys or using the mouse directly. This is now one of them and is extremely useful.

[shaeman]

Look - I'm not trying to pick a fight. I was a bit overzealous in my dismissal of it being latency.
I should have said probably and I don't think it is, or I think it's unlikely. I still think that there might be
a remote possiblity, the teensiest, weensiest chance that it might not be latency. :)

Yes some mobs move. Mainly the ones that snare and run to range. With my tank I tend to have the aggro,
so I can either shift form if on the druid, or wait the root effect to drop and then go get the mob.
(dragging any other melee guys along too).

Some mobs knock back - but most of the time my tank has aggro and the mobs go after my tank,
so if i know a knockback happens I will tank that mob with my bear facing my alts.
If it does an aggro wipe as well (mainly elites in instances) then I'll run back in and taunt it.
Get it under control and reposition it then bring my alts in again.

Occasionally (a mob is positioned in amongst my group). If they cant hit it I can generally just back them up
and then tap follow and attack to get them back on the mob I want, or again if i don't want to back them up
i can have the tank move the mob and bring my team in again (and they are facing the mob).

I honestly believe that having one character who holds the aggro makes position juggling simpler.

I actually agree with you - and as I said before will be going for click to interact.
Being able to send my alts over to deal with a ranged caster while I'm dealing with the melee,
would be fantastic. And the click to interact will stop me having to do any of the positioning tricks
I used to solve the issues previously.

[shaeman]

[EDIT: I'm a moron - Basically just repeated something i said in a previous thread]

[Baleno]

:thumbup: is there a slash command for interact??

What i`m trying to do is
/assit focus
"/interact"

So fas i have to /assist or /target focustarget and then press the key bound to "interact".

[Gurblash]

can't macro interact its protected API

[Tdog]

Alright I read about half the thread before I decided to post so if this has already been said, sue me :P

The reason the mobs keep running is due to lag, when you're spamming the crap out of the interact button as your running up to the mob and at the same time the mob is running at you the lag makes your followers go hay wire. All you got to do is to keep your followers on follow till your main reaches the target, the mob stops moving, and hit your interact button and they won't go running all over.

For questing and grinding purposes, I actually don't even bother with the interact button as 5x any melee is enough to 1-2 shot anything non-elite and you pretty much don't even actually have to stop to kill them you can just run thru them spamming your attack button and keep on going to the next mob.

For Instances I do as I mentioned above, pull the mob to your main, once the mob stops moving hit your interact button and bam, no one goes crazy. Position it right and your followers will always be at the mob's back.

Edit: I just read the rest of the posts. If durning combat your guys get knocked back or w/e just simply grab the mob with your main again, once the mob stops moving hit your interact button again and all should be fine. If for w/e reason your followers do go hay wire, just hit your /follow button instead of spamming your interact button, once they get to your main and settle down, just hit the interact button.

[Tasty]

Alright I read about half the thread before I decided to post so if this has already been said, sue me :P

The reason the mobs keep running is due to lag, when you're spamming the crap out of the interact button as your running up to the mob and at the same time the mob is running at you the lag makes your followers go hay wire. All you got to do is to keep your followers on follow till your main reaches the target, the mob stops moving, and hit your interact button and they won't go running all over.

For questing and grinding purposes, I actually don't even bother with the interact button as 5x any melee is enough to 1-2 shot anything non-elite and you pretty much don't even actually have to stop to kill them you can just run thru them spamming your attack button and keep on going to the next mob.

For Instances I do as I mentioned above, pull the mob to your main, once the mob stops moving hit your interact button and bam, no one goes crazy. Position it right and your followers will always be at the mob's back.

Edit: I just read the rest of the posts. If durning combat your guys get knocked back or w/e just simply grab the mob with your main again, once the mob stops moving hit your interact button again and all should be fine. If for w/e reason your followers do go hay wire, just hit your /follow button instead of spamming your interact button, once they get to your main and settle down, just hit the interact button.

I find it useful but I've managed to survive thus far without it :P I'm sure not going to get rid of it but I'll only use it on the odd occasion.

Ps: My level 80 rogue team killed the first boss in normal gun'drak so there.

Who said all melee can't do instances? :P

[zhenyalix]

holy crap this is soooo OP... even if ur not a melee team... i just had my shammies assist focus to the gryphon master... spammed the interact button... and whala it opened on every window... now if that can work with a quest giver / any targetable npc ie the mounts for the new tournament crap.... um heck yah ty ty ty for the info

edit... yah just did all my dailies and never had to interact with an npc... interact + auto loot + turn in mod for quest accept / turnin um... yah now i don't feel so bad about lvl'ing up a new team through wotlk chain quest hell

[ghonosyph and the moocrew]

the whole point of the click to interact and its usefullness for a melee team isnt that "ITS NOT HARD TO AUTO FOLLOW AND RUN UP THROUGH THE MOB AND WHACK IT" its that YOU DONT HAVE TO HAVE AUTO FOLLOW ANYMORE to make your alts attack something... you can just hit your interact key and they go running off to whack what you tell them to... thus you dont even have to have them follow your main except for moving from pack to pack or mob to mob** i understand its been done and you dont NEED to use interact but once you get used to it, you no longer have to run around with follow getting mobs and crap in range... no more running around all over fuck all to get to your alts after a big fear... just click interact and all your toons run back to whatever they were attacking before :) click to move style!


/sigh i know its easy to autofollow and whack stuff, but click to move +interact simplifies this process by not having to follow around with your main :) rawr

[Tdog]

/sigh i know its easy to autofollow and whack stuff, but click to move +interact simplifies this process by not having to follow around with your main :) rawrI was never disputing the usefulness of the new interact feature. It's awesome yes. But due to lag or wtf ever is causing the followers to run around like chickens with their heads cut off can at times get you into a shit load of trouble. Therefore I don't use it at all times is all I'm saying.

[Tdog]

Alright I read about half the thread before I decided to post so if this has already been said, sue me :P

The reason the mobs keep running is due to lag, when you're spamming the crap out of the interact button as your running up to the mob and at the same time the mob is running at you the lag makes your followers go hay wire. All you got to do is to keep your followers on follow till your main reaches the target, the mob stops moving, and hit your interact button and they won't go running all over.

For questing and grinding purposes, I actually don't even bother with the interact button as 5x any melee is enough to 1-2 shot anything non-elite and you pretty much don't even actually have to stop to kill them you can just run thru them spamming your attack button and keep on going to the next mob.

For Instances I do as I mentioned above, pull the mob to your main, once the mob stops moving hit your interact button and bam, no one goes crazy. Position it right and your followers will always be at the mob's back.

Edit: I just read the rest of the posts. If durning combat your guys get knocked back or w/e just simply grab the mob with your main again, once the mob stops moving hit your interact button again and all should be fine. If for w/e reason your followers do go hay wire, just hit your /follow button instead of spamming your interact button, once they get to your main and settle down, just hit the interact button.

I find it useful but I've managed to survive thus far without it :P I'm sure not going to get rid of it but I'll only use it on the odd occasion.

Ps: My level 80 rogue team killed the first boss in normal gun'drak so there.

Who said all melee can't do instances? :PWere you reading my post when you posted? I'm not really sure what you're talking about in your post. As far as melee not being able to do instances, I'm kicking tons of ass in heroics with my 5xRet team. So I'm not really sure if you meant to quote someone else's post.

[ghonosyph and the moocrew]

the same thing happens when you spam autofollow tdog :) spam it enough and shit goes all over lol

:P

[Lax]

While we're on the subject, has anyone else had problems with alts running away. This works fine for me but on plenty of occasions when I rehit my interact button one or more of my alts will run through the target and just run off into the sunset :PThat's been an issue for a long time in WoW. I've mentioned it to Blizzard before but I'm not sure they took it seriously

I believe it's a race condition in the game. Autofollow is supposed to break when you do a melee attack (and other times obviously), and if you hit autofollow at exactly the right moment, it seems that it correctly disables autofollow, but not the moving forward part. If it hasn't been fixed by now, it's probably not high enough priority for them to bother looking at, but that's my educated guess at the problem if anyone at Blizzard happens to read this ;)

[Tasty]

Alright I read about half the thread before I decided to post so if this has already been said, sue me :P

The reason the mobs keep running is due to lag, when you're spamming the crap out of the interact button as your running up to the mob and at the same time the mob is running at you the lag makes your followers go hay wire. All you got to do is to keep your followers on follow till your main reaches the target, the mob stops moving, and hit your interact button and they won't go running all over.

For questing and grinding purposes, I actually don't even bother with the interact button as 5x any melee is enough to 1-2 shot anything non-elite and you pretty much don't even actually have to stop to kill them you can just run thru them spamming your attack button and keep on going to the next mob.

For Instances I do as I mentioned above, pull the mob to your main, once the mob stops moving hit your interact button and bam, no one goes crazy. Position it right and your followers will always be at the mob's back.

Edit: I just read the rest of the posts. If durning combat your guys get knocked back or w/e just simply grab the mob with your main again, once the mob stops moving hit your interact button again and all should be fine. If for w/e reason your followers do go hay wire, just hit your /follow button instead of spamming your interact button, once they get to your main and settle down, just hit the interact button.

I find it useful but I've managed to survive thus far without it :P I'm sure not going to get rid of it but I'll only use it on the odd occasion.

Ps: My level 80 rogue team killed the first boss in normal gun'drak so there.

Who said all melee can't do instances? :PWere you reading my post when you posted? I'm not really sure what you're talking about in your post. As far as melee not being able to do instances, I'm kicking tons of ass in heroics with my 5xRet team. So I'm not really sure if you meant to quote someone else's post.

Was kinda just responding to the whole thread rather than your post so sorry for any confusion caused. I'll try again. This works really well and is a god send for melee boxers everywhere. I have used it on occasion and find it very useful but I get along fine without it so I keep it as a backup or for the odd occasion when its required (this is just what I do, thats all) As for the boxing instances comment I've seen some people say that melee can't solo instances without a healer or a tank so I made a joke about how I killed a level 73 non heroic boss when I was level 80 ;)