Ok mmcookies Im out too!

[Multibocks]

It's been fun, but it's time to quit WoW again for a while. I wish I could permanently do it, but I know better. I'll be reading the boards, but I have already cancelled my accounts and wont be logging in anymore. I was holding out hope that they would provide some way to get emblems of valor with emblems of heroism, but it appears they dont like that. I also read that they are only introducing new Bind on Account stuff for emblems in 3.1. So I really dont see a reason to play. I have an odd schedule with work and it doesnt leave time to join a guild and raid. (Really who wants a person that cant show up to raids for weeks at a time?) Anyways it feels like a good time to work on other stuff. I'm getting back into my Spanish lessons and maybe I will try learning Photoshop. Maybe at some point they will introduce new loot for emblems of heroism, like the badges of justice, but I really doubt it. I might not renew until next expansion.

I'll still read the boards though, so as far as you guys know; I never left ;)

Source for BoA stuff ('http://blue.mmo-champion.com/1/8246536505-emblems-of-heroism.html')

[Gadzooks]

I think a lot of people see MBing as an easy path to epics. *shrug*. We all have our reasons for doing it - I like the tinkering aspect, and the solo aspect, the end game quite frankly bores me, and I could care about tier gear. But, a lot of people focus on that, as their ultimate target or focus, for motivation. I'm fine with what I can get through crafting and quests, and when i can afford 5 accounts, I'll go for dungeon and Heroic gear. It's all good.

What I've seen lately in the non-MB community is the usual nonsense - "casuals" complaining about how hard raid content is, and everyone complaining about their class and the upcoming nerfs and buffs. I'm not seeing a flood of "I quit! QQ" posts, there were more at the release of Wrath. What i'm seeing is a TON of compromised accounts, and I saw some of teh mini-ban wave the last couple of weeks. Interesting, still not sure what triggered it. (The only reason I care is to make sure there's not something we do that could trigger it). I saw that people are actually falling for the alpha of the next expansion, fer god's sake.

It's all about balance. If you can't balance wow with the rest of your life, you'll have problems, and eventually, you will burn out. I play 2-3 days a week. Today I'm not logging in, I worked on other things. I've never understood how people can't control this.

[Redbeard]

We already had this discussion in the other thread Fur. The only reason its about getting epics is because thats the only way to advance your character. Id beat on people with a tree branch if they gave me some other way to advance my people (in power, not cosmetically).

[Multibocks]

While I understand your point of view - I find this new wave of "I can't get better gear by dong easier content so I quit" theme a little strange.

I wonder how much of the non-multiboxing crowd this is effecting? How many are quitting because the arenas doing rain epics anymore? hmm.

I dabbled in arena a little, but I have zero gear from it. I just dont like arena. I'm not looking for it to rain epics. I just want something to work for, yes even at easier content. I know it rubs the uber-elites the wrong way, but seriously, if I want to turn in 200+ emblems for one piece of t7.5 gear... why does that make you so angry? You will be in T8 soon and I will be working on ONE piece of T7.5 for weeks. Apparently Blizzard didnt like how Badges of Justice allowed you to skip T5 content and they wont do that again. So basically that means I will probably enjoy each new expansion and gear reset and then get bored when I can no longer advance my characters. And, no, achievements are not it.

I took this quote from the link I gave earlier, its a snippet and the person doesnt fully agree with my PoV, but I like his reasoning.



I want to be able to at least feel I can progress my character in some way outside of those instances even if the effort-reward ratio is extremely high-extremely low. I have no interest in Farming heroics with the prospect of nothing but 1 piece of gear for an alt. I would rather work hard to get gear for my main character, whom I enjoy playing.

*Disclaimer* This suggestion means "shock" 10man/heroic peeps can grab some EoV loot. What is this EoV loot? Let's see, a ring, boots, bracers, a cloak, two tier pieces.

Hardly the full gear up, is it? And to get all of the above you need to farm how many badges exactly? well over 200. I would hardly call the kind of person who sets off with the mindset "I must farm 2000+ EoH to get the EoV gear" a casual. If they are a casual player, it will take them even longer.

Why does it bother you if it takes this player X months/years to get pieces of gear with the same level as the 25man drops? Hmmm? "Do the content get the reward" Fine.

Remove Tier 7 and 7.5 peices from badge vendors "Tier is raid loot only"
Remove PvP gear for badges
Remove Titansteel weapons being comparable to 10man drops.
etc...

Because by your proxy, the ONLY way to acheive gear of 25man level (213+) is to raid 25mans.

So let's apply this rule across the board.

The simple fact is, it is the 25man raiders who would benefit most from this, but people cannot see past their own elitist ego and accept it. They would rather keep people off their loot level than improve their own. PATHETIC.

I couldn't give a flying toss about the guy who runs 10man and heroics only. I care about MY character and how I wish to progress it. I do not see how blizzard expect the heroic situation to change by adding "more heirloom loot, a few more itemz"

People like me, who are aiming for level 213+ items could care less about level 200 items in most cases. It's not going to make me go back and run heroics. It will merely keep the people who run 10man/heroic only going for a little bit longer, and do nothing for the 25man raiders unless they are into their alts. So nothing will change.

i would like to think heroics are not completely obslete for me unless I wish to affect a character other than the one I run them as. That seems utterly stupid. So basically what the credo here is, "if you like reaching (what you guys call the HARDER) progression level we'll reward you by making dungeon runs pointless for you, but hey you can gear up your alts! You love the the challenge of raiding, so you must love your alts!"

[Bigfish]

I'm more or less at the same point myself, although I don't really care about loot. I'll work up to the best available, but so long as gear level isn't keeping me from content, I don't really care what I'm wearing.

What I care about is progressing the story. Once I clear out Icecrown, I'm more or less out of things to do. I can farm Gold, heroics, raids, etc, but truth be told, farming and whacking the loot pinata gets old real quickly, especially when the loot pinata only gets refreshed once a week. As it stands, I have, at best, a few more weeks of play time before I cancel my accounts and find something else to do.

Of course, Ulduar gets released in a few weeks, but still, all I see out of it is more raiding and a new arena season, which is fine, but since I don't really care about either, its a meaningless patch for me.

[Svpernova09]

I see both sides, as a multiboxer I'd want something to work for as well. As a solo raider, why should you be able to farm 200 hero badges and get something along the level of Ulduar? Its not fair to the people who devote time to a raiding team to go in and drop content. The reason Blizzard won't let you do this is because it would devalue the higher content. I think if they ever did such, I'd finally quit. Who would raid T8/9 level content when they could farm Naxx. (Just like people farmed kara for 150 badge weapons that were ~T5/6) Blizzard acknowledged the Badge system in BC was flawed, thats why they've fixed it in Wrath.

GL with whatever you get yourself into. Photoshop is a lot of fun and very much worth learning imo.

[Hachoo]

I'm very close as well. I'm down to only playing WoW a couple times a week for an hour now just to run VH to try to finish my video - theres not really much else I want to do in the game. Hard to justify $75/mo for that... especially in these times. Will probably cancel my accounts soon also, at least for ~6 months or so and then I'm sure the game will become interesting again.

[Multibocks]

I see both sides, as a multiboxer I'd want something to work for as well. As a solo raider, why should you be able to farm 200 hero badges and get something along the level of Ulduar? Its not fair to the people who devote time to a raiding team to go in and drop content. The reason Blizzard won't let you do this is because it would devalue the higher content. I think if they ever did such, I'd finally quit. Who would raid T8/9 level content when they could farm Naxx. (Just like people farmed kara for 150 badge weapons that were ~T5/6) Blizzard acknowledged the Badge system in BC was flawed, thats why they've fixed it in Wrath.

GL with whatever you get yourself into. Photoshop is a lot of fun and very much worth learning imo.

edited:

I changed the tone of this, it was too sarcastic. Basically I do not see how its unfair to raiders that are currently farming T8 and T8.5 that some nub is running heroics to get T7.5 badge loot at an exchange rate of 10 to 1. No one in there right mind would think that is unfair to the raiders. I think you misunderstood what I was asking for, I want to be able to get T7.5 emblem loot with an exchange of 10 emblems of heroism to 1 emblem of valor. So I dont see how your raider comment even applies as they will be farming Ulduar. No one in their right mind would farm 10man Naxx to exchange those for 25 man Naxx emblem loot. Why do that when they can farm 10 man Ulduar for much better loot?

[Bigfish]

I'd argue the badge system, in so far as raiding goes, is flawed only in that they have set Heroics and 10-mans on the same badge level, and with 25-man naxx with 10-man ulduar. I understand that badges in raids are an incentive to help clear even if you get no drops personally, but what it comes down to unrelated progression paths being bunched unnecesarily together.

In my opinion, they should have 3 seperate PvE gear sets: 1 available from heroic badges, 1 available as drops from 10-man, 1 available as drops from 25-man. You still get badges from raiding, but only to artificialize drops to give something out to the unlucky.

At which point, you also get similar development time: ie, a new 5-man for every new raid, with hard modes and incentives that make the new 5-man a bit more reward-giving, but not trivializing current heroics.

That, or get rid of that damn week-long lock out on 10-mans.

[Multibocks]

I would like it if they introduced a new 5 man every content patch. Like Magister's Terrace. Introduce new emblem of heroism loot each patch, it doesnt have to be raid level loot, just something slightly better than what currently exists for heroism. So the new stuff would be item level 220 instead of the 213(?) that exists now. Not a gigantic improvement, but SOMETHING for me to go after. There is no carrot in the game that exists for me at this point.

[Catamer]

yeah, you used to be able to PvP your way to some pretty awsome gear just doing A/V and the other not-so-fun PvP battle grounds.
You could Arena your way to even better gear even if you didn't have a good rating.

but right now, I've done all of the heroics that I can stand, I'll puke if I do one more Gundrak, one more HoL or one more UK.
I'm having a hard time raiding because the raiding guild I joined is west coast and I'm east coast ( so they raid until 1-2 AM for me )
They are an awsome raiding guild but I can't stay up intil 2AM and go to work at 7AM and they do a complete Naxx25 on Tuesday nights ( if only they did it on a weekend :wacko: )

per say I'm pretty miffed you can't get good stuff from Heroism badges. you really can't get a complete set of gear off of badges like you used to in BC.
if you are doing Valor content the instance itself drops better gear than you can get from the Valor badges ( or at least close enough why bother ) and again, you can't get a complete set from the badges like you could in BC.
There is no real reason to run Heroic or Valor content for the badges beyond getting one or two pieces of gear and I've already done that.
I would be trying for more gear sets if there were actually any gear sets to be had from badges.
I'm not happy with the complete lack of gear you can get from badges when you look back and see what you can get from Heroic badges in BC.

so I'm playing around with alts... and northend questing bytes with all of the phase shits, lost of follow or the complete loss of seeing anyone else if they aren't on the same quest.

[Redbeard]

Even if thats true, are you saying that as someone who is exclusively going to do 5 mans is just done til either a) they introduce a new 5 man or b) the next expansion?

You're welcome to that opinion, im just curious if im understanding you correctly.

[Multibocks]

Even if it took me two years to get just the T7.5 chest, if the decision were up to you then you would say no. And I'll tell you why. It's because raiders always want to be this elite group and they do not want to share any of that "prestige" even if it meant I was 2 teirs behind you. It just grinds your gears to think that I did it "the easy way." Sad thing is I bet I could be a better raider than half the people in most raid guilds if judged alone by reaction time and ability. I just dont have a life that enables me to sit in front of my computer during primetime raiding. Oh well, QQ and all that.

[Redbeard]

Lets slant this another way.

5 man is a play style. 10 man is a play style. 25 man is a play style.

So people in naxx and other raids right now doing 10 / 25 mans are at a wall. Theyre wearing best in slot items and have no more room for progression, right? So that sucks. They can just uninstall (or play another character), they cant improve their character. Along comes 3.1 and what is happening? Theyre introducing more raid content. Yay people doing 10 / 25 mans can now continue to advance their characters without changing their play style.

The same is not true for 5 mans. What youre saying is "change your playstyle and you can keep playing". I wont speak for Multibocks but thats what I am lamenting. Put in a new 5 man and ill have nothing to complain about (at least relative to raiders) because well be in the same slot as the raiders (well both be at a wall once we're geared from the best dungeon for that play style).

[Dorffo]

I was really happy with Magister's terrace - kept me busy for a good long while in TBC. Hopefully we see some more 5-mans that follow the Dire Maul / Magister's Terrace curve.

[pinotnoir]

I know how you feel. Once you gear out your team with all the heroic stuff and badge rewards the game is over. I have a crazy work rotation as well. This leaves me unable to join a raiding guild. The best I can do is pug some naxx. PVP is terrible so thats out of the question. Even though my shaman are fully geared with pvp stuff. What is keeping me going so far is working on alt teams. Gear them will keep me busy. I dont think I will make another team after my dk's are geared. At that point I would look for naxx pugs. It would be nice if they released better badge gear and maybe a new 5 man. Have fun during your hiatus.

[Memn]

I don't think it is unfair to allow EoH -> EoV trades at all... The game is all about time.. time is gold, time is progression, time is gear. I recently left my raiding guild and after a couple of weeks of catchin up my boxing team I quickly realized there was no upgrades left for me outside of Naxx or Eye of Eternity... and even then. If you can't progress; whats the point in playing? The carrot is no longer a motivation when you realize you can't possibly reach it...

[Multibocks]

During that time I was not MBing, so I PvP'd and attempted to join a raid guild. Now that my schedule no longer allows raiding (and I really dont enjoy PvP, outside of WG).. well, Im out of things to do. See with Magisters Terrace new loot was introduced, so expensive in badges that I just didnt have the time to get it all. It was great, I felt like I had a reason to log on each day. Now, not so much. I have 2 teams with nowhere to go for upgrades, also there are no other MBers on my server to group up with on Naxx. (And that's if they would be kosher with weird times for raiding.)

[elsegundo]

ok guys.. have a great time whatever you're doing!

[Bigfish]

So what kept you guys playing in BC after you farmed all the badge gear? T5, T6, T6.5 (Sunwell) was all out of reach... why'd you keep playing?

Or if any of you have been playing since launch like me... after you hit the level 60 wall and farmed out all the 5/10 man instances (8/8 Dungeon 1 w00t!) - what did you do then, since you're all so against raiding / pugging?

I switched out during the midpoint of both vanilla and BC for FFXI until new advancement options opened up.

[puppychow]

I cancelled 3 of my accounts early this month (time ran out this week) and don't miss running 5 accounts at all. Sure, its fun for a few days/weeks running heroics solo but after that there isn't much to do as a 5 boxer who isnt into PVP. I am having fun right now leveling my Deathknight (just hit 76) "boosting" with one of my shamans, I might re-activate the 5 once my DK is 80 and jam him through some heroics for a month. All the raids in the game are super simple right now, on my server there are soooo many Naxx/OS25/EoE pugs daily there really isn't any need to multibox, just login and you can raid within a few minutes.

In TBC it was much harder to raid (pre 3.0) beyond Karazhan, so multiboxing made sense -- I'm bored, can't be arsed to find a guild to do SSC/TK/BT with, so i might as well multibox and have fun doing heroics/arena and get gear nearly as good.

In WOTLK no point, all my guys are in nearly full naxx25 gear just from each running 25 man pugs over the weeks. Hell, my resto shaman is one of the most geared players on the server (5/5 T7.5, KT mace, all Maly25 drops, even pugged Sarth 3 drakes) and I hardly ever played him. I've done 2 drake OS25 pugs on all my guys, theres no way any multiboxer is doing that. So in essence you can actually get further as a single player pugging than as a multiboxer, which wasn't really true (on average) in TBC.

[Niley]

simple question.
What is there to do when You achieved everything that was fun for You?
That's right, stop playing.
I quit boxing few months back after I did all my heroics, and got rep up with whatever i need it too, than i hit a wall....there was nothing else to do for me, so i canceled 4 accounts, and I'm just raiding now. I'm having as much fun with that as I had with boxing( I really like my black proto drake :P)

[mmcookies]

I have no idea why this is such a big deal, and the same arguments recur over and over despite overwhelming one-sided evidence.
Maybe Blizzard is just THAT good at marketing the illusion of elite end-game raiding.

Epics WILL be made easier to get, and more so over time.
Blizzard has to keep bumping up entry level epics in order to make the end-game gearing process manageable for their target consumers.

And even if you don't buy that, think about this. Raiding requires people, lots of people.
While a dedicated guild might get the same 25 people to raid week after week, this is not true for the majority of WoW players who have to PUG at least part of their raids.
Getting 25 people together at the same time to do the same thing requires a far larger pool of potential players than 5-man PUGs.
And raiders, being real people, stop raiding for one reason or another (lack of progress, not enough content, attention whoring girlfriends, etc.)
So how do you get new people to replace the missing players?
Can you seriously expect new players to work through all levels of content in order to join their friends?

The weakness of the raiding end-game is that it requires a constant supply of fresh players who are willing to climb the raiding pyramid.
And for the most part, the willingness has a lot to do with how tall that pyramid is.
Once the top starts to seem out of reach, Blizzard will have to catapult new players mid-way up the pyramid to keep them coming.
Whether you want to call these welfare epics or knowing your customers and how your game works is up to you.

And seriously, I haven't just been playing heroics either. I've gotten loremaster on all 5 of my main chars, all the mounts that I really wanted, and spent quite a bit of time exploring Northrend. (Have you guys seen the freakishly large orca that surges up from the depths? That thing literally made me jump.)

One of my friends compared raiding to line-dancing with 25 people who all have to wear the right costumes.
He was talking about group complexity as opposed to, say, competitive couples ballroom dancing.
But anyways, watching a well-edited raid video with good music gives me just about all I want out of raids.

[Stealthy]

Keep it civil please...I'd hate to have to lock this thread.

S.

[Moorea]

Keep it civil please...I'd hate to have to lock this thread.

S.

What's not civil in this thread ? (or was it edited out already by the time I got to read it)

[Stealthy]

Yep it was - Fur beat me to it. :D

[Gadzooks]

So what kept you guys playing in BC after you farmed all the badge gear? T5, T6, T6.5 (Sunwell) was all out of reach... why'd you keep playing?

Or if any of you have been playing since launch like me... after you hit the level 60 wall and farmed out all the 5/10 man instances (8/8 Dungeon 1 w00t!) - what did you do then, since you're all so against raiding / pugging?I can't farm the 5 mans, as I only have 3 - by the time my guys can handle one, the gear is woefully out of date. Plus, even BC Heroics hand me my butt because I don't have a tank or healer (mage, boomkin, warlock). I was lucky that my guys were almost 70 when Wrath shipped, so I was ready to go pretty quick, and I spent the time since leveling, and had a complete blast doing it. I have all of the exploration and quest achievements, a good chunk of reps ground out, and some pretty good crafted and quest gear. No PvP, and no raiding is fine with me.

Now, I'm exploring the shaman, priest and paladin classes, and I'm going to level them to 80 as well, and hopefully by that time, have my hours restored at work and can afford two more accounts, then I'll try 5 mans. If not, I want to level a warrior, my 70 rogue, and a hunter, and have all the classes leveled. I always wanted a 70 of each, but figured it would take way too long, but MBing plus RAF makes it a lot easier. I might even level my DK team.

I have PLENTY to do!

Along the way I'll level all of the professions, and for once max out fishing and cooking on a few. And, there's always grinding out epic flying on all of them.

I guess I have altitus - I don't have a favorite class anymore, if MBing has done anything for me, it's taught me a lot how all the classes work, and how they work together - and I like them all now. :D

We all have different goals and approaches, and while I did have my eye on end game for a long time, I'm now perfectly happy leveling and learning new things, and that can keep me going a ways yet. Epics? They'll happen eventually, or not. I still have fun, either way.

[Taliesin]

Another reason that there is separate 5-man, 10-man, and 25-man content is that they progressively take more teamwork and coordination (and commitment). Not everyone has the time to coordinate with that many people to just get something done.

I prefer 5-man content because it is generally fairly short, and takes very little time to get going compared to bigger events. I rarely do 10-man content, and only did two 25-man runs in the last year in TBC.

I don't expect to see any tier 7.5 gear for a long time, but I have a feeling that Blizzard will probably make it easier to obtain once raiders have moved onto tier 8 or 9 gear. At that point, they won't care very much if a heroism -> valor system is added, since they will be well above that gear level anyways. It will give the non-raiders a final gasp at the "uber loot" before Blizz announces when the next expansion is expected out and greens replace them again with generic models.

In the meantime, I agree that the game needs new 5-man content to be released on a fairly regular basis. Not because they have even better loot, but just to keep people interested in the game. New rare pets/mounts/gizmos that drop to give something new to strive for. I also like to see other story lines, even if they are not directly related to the greater story line of the expansion. An instance that relates the taunka to the tauren and gives some more background, for example. Or a story line that may give some pretext into whatever they are secretly concocting for a later expansion.

[Talamarr]

I hope in the future, Blizzard expands on the 25/10 man idea to include 5 man and maybe even solo progression. Each raid area also has 5 man content with it's own progression line and maybe even some solo'able epic quest lines that allow you to play through the story.

Right now, the idea is to do 5 mans, then 5 man heroics then raid. I think we'd get more mileage out of the game if you there were separate 5/10/25/x instance progressions starting with level 70 to 80 and beyond (or whatever levels apply for that expansion).

I never understood why the end-game forces you to be in large scale raids. What does that prove? That for every Shepard there are 24 sheep?

[Hachoo]

I never understood why the end-game forces you to be in large scale raids. What does that prove? That for every Shepard there are 24 sheep?

That the greater enemy requires more power than a single character can provide?

You don't' see the US Military sending out solo troops to accomplish large missions....You don't? I'd wager most of the most important missions are carried out by small tactical groups of elite forces (rangers, special ops, delta force, etc), or very small groups of pilots. Perhaps you could compare these to 5-mans.

[Talamarr]

Umm, hello, RAMBO! He soloed an entire war, duh!

[Fat Tire]

I never understood why the end-game forces you to be in large scale raids. What does that prove? That for every Shepard there are 24 sheep?

That the greater enemy requires more power than a single character can provide?

You don't' see the US Military sending out solo troops to accomplish large missions....You don't? I'd wager most of the most important missions are carried out by small tactical groups of elite forces (rangers, special ops, delta force, etc), or very small groups of pilots. Perhaps you could compare these to 5-mans.Those guys are soo hollywood. ;p

I will take the SAD teams any day. However, there are some who are recruited from those units.

[Taliesin]

I don't have any problem with 25-man content existing. It's usually more challenging to do, if nothing more than trying to keep that many people organized. So there should be slightly greater rewards there. It also gives people more things to try and do before running out of content/objectives.

It would be great if they could devise some way for people to continue progressing in 5-man types of content without it being the equivalent of just "buying up" into the tier 7.5 gear already in place. That's all. But I guess that's kind of the holy grail of MMO development, if you think about it.

[Starbuck_Jones]

For a game this size and with this many people playing it is unwise for blizzard not to provide several avenues for advancement. The token system is in my opinion one of the better systems used. When Everquest came out with the lost dungeon expansion, it was very very cool to be able to dungeon crawl, get points and buy great gear. It provided a steady path of advancemet to the time put in and a great alternative to the raid sceene. I'm sure that blizzard has some giant action plan where everything fits, but it is disappointing to see a bunch of new content come out and it only allows one group/type of player to advance (25man raid).

I'm surprised blizzard hasn't put in a more traditional alt advancement at max level like other games have. Every 10 million xp get an AA point and raise a stat or resist or something by 1 point up to a max of 10 points or something.

[Redbeard]

While id like something like this as well, i read a quote one time that said something to the effect of... if they put in a system like this with anything but cosmetic rewards, then they have to balance all content as if youre max level AA too. Donno.
I'm surprised blizzard hasn't put in a more traditional alt advancement at max level like other games have. Every 10 million xp get an AA point and raise a stat or resist or something by 1 point up to a max of 10 points or something.

[Starbuck_Jones]

Its getting kinda OT, but I don't think AA would make you have to retool content. I have seen in EQ and stuff where they implemented some major buffs in AA. Like Endless quiver, head shot and stuff like that for rangers that became class defining skills. Stuff like that can be avoided, The other down side is people will use it as a yard stick. like you cant play with us because you dont have +10 to all resists like we do. It does take off some of the edge that more difficult encounters provide. If you had +10 to all stats/resists, you could prolly take on that new content just a bit sooner than someone without. Get in w/o having to upgrade a few peices of armor and the like.

Blizzard has already retooled all non current expansion content to be WAY easier than it was.

I remember reading an essay on food and potions back around the time Naxx first came out and was dropping the T3 gear. People were complaining about how hard it was and the increase in gear was marginal at best. What the essay boiled down to was mana math. You need x mana/5 to out heal the dps the encounter throws at you and x mana/5 in DPS to burn it down. It showed quite nicely how much was needed for each teir and how the appropriate gear one teir down provided what was needed to beat the next teir. Then the essay tossed in the effects of stat food and potions and suddenly the numbers were so out of wack that it totaly trivialized the content. And they proved it too. The guilds that spent the time and gold to farm mats for all the potions for resists and mana totaly blew through content where equaly geared guilds struggled.

AA is just another carrot on a stick, as the game ages it becomes like a river as it nears the ocean, slow, flat and wide. Nothing like where it started crashing down a mountain valley.

[Redbeard]

Yeah id love it.

Thats my number one beef for this game.People complain about the graphics but i love the style and think theyre great. People complain about the classes but I like them. I like the quests, i like the items, i like the leveling. Its a great game. But once I get to 80 beyond gear im done (and thats what some of us are complaining about in this thread).

Bring on the AAs, lol.

[Bigfish]

I don't really like AAs. Seems like just more leveling without adding the levels.

Of course, I have a certain degree of annoyance with where content is balanced too. Things should be balanced around a "most people can clear this" level of gear and skill, and if you are above that, things just get easier.

Its almost a Peter Principle effect(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle): You get better and better gear and skills, and then you move in to the next tier of raiding, until you ultimately end up at a tier of content you are unable to clear. I suppose that's all well and good, except a hallmark of the content offered in expansions tends to be hidden behind the upper eschelons of these raiding tiers.

[puppychow]

Blizzard's only real problem is that they are unwilling/unable to develop content at a reasonable pace. WOTLK was released on Nov 13th 2008, its been 4 months now, it'll be around 5 months before the first content patch. Which contains a massive new 10/25 man raid instance for raiders, and a "coliseum" with ways to raise reputations (and buy random stuff) by doing dailies for more casual people. Thats it. No real fixes/updates to PVP other than season 6 start/gear, no new quest hub or new 5 man, etc.

The next patch will probably take 4-6 months as well. So thats 2 content patches in a year. If they could instead release new content quest hubs every 3 months, a new 5 man instance every 2 months, and a new raid instance every 4 months people would be drowning in new content. I would guess thats the delivery mechanism they plan for their next MMO however, as they seem pretty good at dissecting their past problems and coming up with solutions for big next projects.

[mmcookies]

Blizzard's only real problem is that they are unwilling/unable to develop content at a reasonable pace. WOTLK was released on Nov 13th 2008, its been 4 months now, it'll be around 5 months before the first content patch. Which contains a massive new 10/25 man raid instance for raiders, and a "coliseum" with ways to raise reputations (and buy random stuff) by doing dailies for more casual people. Thats it. No real fixes/updates to PVP other than season 6 start/gear, no new quest hub or new 5 man, etc.

The next patch will probably take 4-6 months as well. So thats 2 content patches in a year. If they could instead release new content quest hubs every 3 months, a new 5 man instance every 2 months, and a new raid instance every 4 months people would be drowning in new content. I would guess thats the delivery mechanism they plan for their next MMO however, as they seem pretty good at dissecting their past problems and coming up with solutions for big next projects.

Yah, and where the hell is my Starcraft 2?

[Hachoo]

I officially disabled my subscription for my 4 slave accounts today - it ends on April 3rd...

Might disable my main account also, not sure yet - might keep raiding with my DK tank or respec him DPS and PvP with him.

[Souca]

Blizzard's only real problem is that they are unwilling/unable to develop content at a reasonable pace. WOTLK was released on Nov 13th 2008, its been 4 months now, it'll be around 5 months before the first content patch. Which contains a massive new 10/25 man raid instance for raiders, and a "coliseum" with ways to raise reputations (and buy random stuff) by doing dailies for more casual people. Thats it. No real fixes/updates to PVP other than season 6 start/gear, no new quest hub or new 5 man, etc.

The next patch will probably take 4-6 months as well. So thats 2 content patches in a year. If they could instead release new content quest hubs every 3 months, a new 5 man instance every 2 months, and a new raid instance every 4 months people would be drowning in new content. I would guess thats the delivery mechanism they plan for their next MMO however, as they seem pretty good at dissecting their past problems and coming up with solutions for big next projects.I wish I could find a source for it, but I seem to remember Blizzard saying they wanted to release a new expansion every year. I remember hearing this back when Wrath was announced. I don't think they will get their though.

When they were announcing all the changes they were making to classes with 3.0.2 and the buffs and debuffs, I stopped and realized there was a reason for it. They were trying to get abilities and effects into neat little categories so that they didn't have to test for weird esoteric situations that only happened in one class with one spec and a certain weapon. I got excited, because this meant they could pump out content faster; testing would still have to happen, but if a stun was a stun was a stun then it didn't matter if it was caused by a rogue a druid or a mage. They could release content little by little keeping players interested up until the next expansion instead of the current ebb and flow that seems to happen now as people burn through and then burn out. I still think this was the plan, but I'm not sure what happened. At BlizzCon they announced that 3.1 was done. They had all the content. Five months later they will release it. I really hope they know what they are doing for 3.2.

Not sure what my point was, but I empathize with a lot of the people in this thread. I've leveled two solo horde characters to 80 and I've stalled at 74 on one of my ally 5 box teams and I just can't seem to get excited about leveling anymore. Some of the quests are different, but I have a feeling once I'm past Grizzly Hills most of the quests will be the faction independent ones so they'll be the ones I've done twice already. There is still a carrot out there, but I'm begining to wonder if I really like carrots that much.

- Souca -

[Hachoo]

I officially disabled my subscription for my 4 slave accounts today - it ends on April 3rd...

Might disable my main account also, not sure yet - might keep raiding with my DK tank or respec him DPS and PvP with him.

Bored?This, and I'm about to invest in a second and possibly third piece of property due to low prices and high rental demand and the extra $60-75/mo could come in handy.

[Multibocks]

Blizzard's only real problem is that they are unwilling/unable to develop content at a reasonable pace. WOTLK was released on Nov 13th 2008, its been 4 months now, it'll be around 5 months before the first content patch. Which contains a massive new 10/25 man raid instance for raiders, and a "coliseum" with ways to raise reputations (and buy random stuff) by doing dailies for more casual people. Thats it. No real fixes/updates to PVP other than season 6 start/gear, no new quest hub or new 5 man, etc.

The next patch will probably take 4-6 months as well. So thats 2 content patches in a year. If they could instead release new content quest hubs every 3 months, a new 5 man instance every 2 months, and a new raid instance every 4 months people would be drowning in new content. I would guess thats the delivery mechanism they plan for their next MMO however, as they seem pretty good at dissecting their past problems and coming up with solutions for big next projects.I wish I could find a source for it, but I seem to remember Blizzard saying they wanted to release a new expansion every year. I remember hearing this back when Wrath was announced. I don't think they will get their though.

When they were announcing all the changes they were making to classes with 3.0.2 and the buffs and debuffs, I stopped and realized there was a reason for it. They were trying to get abilities and effects into neat little categories so that they didn't have to test for weird esoteric situations that only happened in one class with one spec and a certain weapon. I got excited, because this meant they could pump out content faster; testing would still have to happen, but if a stun was a stun was a stun then it didn't matter if it was caused by a rogue a druid or a mage. They could release content little by little keeping players interested up until the next expansion instead of the current ebb and flow that seems to happen now as people burn through and then burn out. I still think this was the plan, but I'm not sure what happened. At BlizzCon they announced that 3.1 was done. They had all the content. Five months later they will release it. I really hope they know what they are doing for 3.2.

Not sure what my point was, but I empathize with a lot of the people in this thread. I've leveled two solo horde characters to 80 and I've stalled at 74 on one of my ally 5 box teams and I just can't seem to get excited about leveling anymore. Some of the quests are different, but I have a feeling once I'm past Grizzly Hills most of the quests will be the faction independent ones so they'll be the ones I've done twice already. There is still a carrot out there, but I'm begining to wonder if I really like carrots that much.

- Souca -

Carrots are good for the eyes!

[Tonuss]

Yeah id love it.

Thats my number one beef for this game.People complain about the graphics but i love the style and think theyre great. People complain about the classes but I like them. I like the quests, i like the items, i like the leveling. Its a great game. But once I get to 80 beyond gear im done (and thats what some of us are complaining about in this thread).

Bring on the AAs, lol.I can't imagine that Blizzard would introduce AAXP, simply because it goes against their design of the game. More and more, especially since tBC, the idea is for you to quickly get to level x0 and starting running heroics and then raids. If they wanted to slow leveling, they could revert to the pre-tBC curve. That's all that AAXP was, after all. A way to slow leveling even more than the typically slow pace of leveling in EQ.

That's also why 5-man content dries up at max level. Blizzard seems to want your progression to go one of several ways, and 5-mans aren't in the mix. Sure, you get heroics at max level, but that's just the same content you already saw, and it doesn't get updated. With tBC they only added one 5-man instance after release, if I'm not mistaken. I think it'd be great to see 5-man progress extended on some sort of consistent path through the life of each expansion. I suppose that the only reason they do not do that is because they may not find it an efficient use of resources.