FTL - makes sense for non-homogene grps?

[torytrae]

Now, FTL has some benefits, but some drawbacks as well in setting it up and configuration.

I am currently going for the 1 Tank + 3 DD + 1 Healer Setup, and I am thinking, if FTL would really be something for my team? Obviously this only is required for Instances or PvP. As I do not PvP and only go for PvE, is it worth the effort to setup FTL?

What would I accomplish if my tank goes down in an instance? The normal /focus or /assist system would be sufficient in 99% of all cases?
What do you think? Worth the effort for a mixed PvE only team?

[Sajuuk]

In no cases is ftl ever ''required''.

It's just awesome to not have to make those 20ish macros to switch focus.

[torytrae]

I understand. The question is, would a non-homogene group doing PvE only ever require focus switch often enough?

[Ken]

In no cases is ftl ever ''required''.

It's just awesome to not have to make those 20ish macros to switch focus.

You don't need 20ish macros if you use modifiers to switch focus.
For example: "+" for set focus (with modifiers to determine which char you want) and "-" for clearfocus (of current screen's character only, so this key shouldnt be broadcasted)

However, if you want flexible group setups with FTL, you'll need multiple macros anyway.
I personally use focus and have stuff like:

"Focus account 1" macro:
/focus [target=SomeCharOnAccount1,exists] [target=OtherCharOnAccount1,exists]
/assist

This basically just checks to see which character is online on account 1 and selects that as focus whenever I switch to that window.
So yes, I have 4 focus macros per account, but on the other hand I don't need to create extra macros if I create new groups. That means that if you have many groups, you actually save macro space by chosing a focus-based system rather than an FTL-based system.

As with most macro systems, each has its own benefits and drawbacks.

[Ken]

I understand. The question is, would a non-homogene group doing PvE only ever require focus switch often enough?

Switching characters in PvE only is necessary when things are going wrong and even then you can just keep on aiming from your dead character and use your dead character's target. So in short: no.

In PvP it's quite handy, but even there you don't want to switch too often, but keep using your dead character, as switching chars can take several seconds. Those few seconds are sometimes enough to get another one of your characters die.

For me a focus-based system is the most flexible one. This way I can just focus on *any* raid member and have my dps follow him/her while I do some tricky boss stuff with my tank/healer.
It also allows me to swap in other characters in my team more easily.

[edit] The biggest drawback for me is that I can't use focus for crowd-control or pet-targetting, but I don't mind too much, as I have solutions for both.

[Sajuuk]

In no cases is ftl ever ''required''.

It's just awesome to not have to make those 20ish macros to switch focus.

You don't need 20ish macros if you use modifiers to switch focus.
For example: "+" for set focus (with modifiers to determine which char you want) and "-" for clearfocus (of current screen's character only, so this key shouldnt be broadcasted)*shrug* when I was using keyclone I always had one macro per PiP key so things got switched around when I switched windows.

[Ken]

In no cases is ftl ever ''required''.

It's just awesome to not have to make those 20ish macros to switch focus.

You don't need 20ish macros if you use modifiers to switch focus.
For example: "+" for set focus (with modifiers to determine which char you want) and "-" for clearfocus (of current screen's character only, so this key shouldnt be broadcasted)*shrug* when I was using keyclone I always had one macro per PiP key so things got switched around when I switched windows.
You can use shift/ctrl/alt(and combinations of that) + a regular key for PiP switching. This would lead to 1 button click in WoW and the WoW macro would then handle the ctrl/alt/shift modifier accordingly, like this:
/clearfocus
/focus [modifier:ctrl,modifier:shift,target=Avarell] [modifier:ctrl, target=Willyam] [modifier:shift, target=Jeck] [target=Joeh]

[edit] The only drawback of this is that sometimes Keyclone makes one of these modifiers stuck in its state, even after you switched screen. That would lead to shift/ctrl/alt still being pressed(even though you dont physically press it) after switching away from that window.

[Kaynin]

The difference between FTL and other set ups is that for an FTL set up you can just go to any window and automatically that character assumes leadership without having to do any action.

Whilest other set ups usually need an extra macro, like a focus set up. Which is very close to FTL but you need to change focus' when you change your character.

There is a target set up that is pretty close to FTL in terms of characters dying. (When one character dies, all macro's automatically skip that char to targettarget, but go to the next with nodead modifiers) but it doesn't have the flexibility of FTL.

In the end, FTL is mainly convenient. But neccesary? Hmm, for me, yes. I couldn't do without. Specifically in dynamic situations where things don't go as expected. Being able to change leader instantly is real nice in those situations (PvP or PvE-going-haywire). :p



As someone said in the thread, focus has some cool nifty things of being able to put your alt on anyone in the raid as well as vehicle boxing. I have a focus-based FTL set up for that myself. (So more of a TL set up. :P But basicly it's everything the FTL set up has but instead of /targer [FTL stuff] it does /focus [FTL stuff] )

[KvdM]

Its not necessary. However, it does allow you to use /focus for crowd control.

[Ken]

The difference between FTL and other set ups is that for an FTL set up you can just go to any window and automatically that character assumes leadership without having to do any action.
While this is very relevant when you have all WoW windows at a decent size, it is not relevant when you use Picture-in-Picture swapping and have the 'slave' windows at a smaller size constantly. In my case, I have to press a button anyway to swap these windows.


There is a target set up that is pretty close to FTL in terms of characters dying. (When one character dies, all macro's automatically skip that char to targettarget, but go to the next with nodead modifiers) but it doesn't have the flexibility of FTL.
I don't like kill-order, because I want to be able to use any character at any time (e.g. when doing pickup quests).
It's personal preference of course :)

[Multibocks]

Having used FTL I would recommend you not use it if you have no interest in arenas and arenas only. BG PvE no one cares to see who is the leader or who is being focused, only arenas does someone really pay attention to that. I currently do not arena and wish that I had gone the focus route. FTL has a few annoying things, one being that it eats up most of your macro space with targetting. I can fix it sure, but I have it working and am not motivated to do anything about it.

[Malekyth]

I find that FTL makes the game a little more fun, by virtue of being just slightly less irritating to play. With a non-FTL setup, I have five keys to define the leaders, F1-F5. With FTL, I've bound one key to my mouse5 button, and switching leaders is far more fluid. It's also foolproof; I never hit the wrong button.

My druids are my only FTL group right now, but I'm going to change the others over too. It's the only way to play ... for me, at least.

[Zappy]

Another nice feature of FTL is that you don't have to be grouped. It may not seem like much, but there are many times similiar to when you first join Wintergrasp. I ungroup all my shammys and sometimes it takes a few minutes of coordination before they are all in one of the main raid groups. With the /focus setup, your clones will not react unless you are grouped, whereas the FTL, I can continue running around fighting not having to wait for the coordination.

[wowphreak]

I play with a mixed group.
There's ton of variations on ftl the way I have it setup there's an assist button and a follow button (these are the only 2 button that get the ftl treatment by sending the ctr-alt-shift modifiers to the the other chars) using /click, the button that gets clicked has 5 macros one for each account all that in the macro is /target and name of the char for all the chars in that one account.

so each chars has one button with
/click "button name"
/assist

and another one that has
/click "button name"
/follow

this allows me to switch out any char without modifying any macros or what not.

the 1 key i have setup for assist
2 key is my single target dps key
3 is my aoe key
4 aoe heal
7 druid goes moonkin
8 heal tank
- is for follow

and thats all i pretty much use for instances its nice being able to switch to other chars because there's times there are so many critters on the tank and he's up against the wall, so none of them can hit him from behind, that yeh cant see anything having the ability to switch back and forth to another view point is really helpfull and not having to worry about targeting is really nice.
At this point I have 2 melee chars in my group its nice being able to switch from my pali to my death knight to position em better.
Theres other times where yeh gotta move yer chars but keep the tank stationary, I have a separate movement keys so I can move my other chars but sometimes there not all in sync switch to another char hit follow then there all really close again point in about the same direction :P

At this point I think ftl + /click is about the most flexible setup yeh can create.

[blast3r]

Another advantage of FTL is when you switch to another main your current main isn't all gimped up. For example the key your are pressing is actually one setup for an alt to use and there is a problem with focusing and firing. Your other alts can fire but the current main doesn't work as good. FTL eliminates that problem. Plus you can play solo easy since you have two buttons. one solo-flavored (for current main) and the others for your followers.

I am going to start dropping in othe toons to my group soon and am thinking that may be a bit of a pain because of the hot strings. Having to load a different one in keyclone.

[Vyndree]

In no cases is ftl ever ''required''.

It's just awesome to not have to make those 20ish macros to switch focus.

20 macros?

ASSIGN NEW ASSIST:

/clearfocus [target=focus,nohelp]
/target [target=focustarget,help,nodead][target=party1target,help,nodead][target=party1,help,nodead][target=party2,help,nodead][target=party3,help,nodead][target=party4,help,nodead]
/focus [help,nodead]
/p Focusing on: %f

OPTIONAL: Replace "party2", "party3", "party4", etc with actual character names in order of preference if you prefer non-party based focus priority
OPTIONAL: Replace "/clearfocus" line with "/stopmacro [target=focus,harm,nodead]" if you never want to clear your focus when it's on a harmful (enemy) target (i.e. CC focus)
OPTIONAL: Add your favorite "assist" method to the first line to avoid /assist lag and allow you to spam this button. For reference, my assist method looks like this (I use BOTH party-based and focus-based in order to allow focus to be free'd up in instances for CC)
DPS:

/target [target=focustarget,harm,nodead][target=party1target,harm,nodead]
/stopmacro [noharm][dead]
HEALS:

/target [target=focustarget,help,nodead][target=party1target,help,nodead]
/stopmacro [nohelp][dead]



I mean, you CAN make a macro for each party member, but if you're a 5-boxer that's only 5 macros ("/focus Bob"). 20 is a bit excessive.

[Clanked]

Vyndree, what you posted has my interested piqued.
However, I'm not picturing how you would swap characters mid fight unless they are dead.
Is that what the [target=party1target,help,nodead] is for? If it is: wouldn't you have to target the character you want to swap to?

[Vyndree]

Vyndree, what you posted has my interested piqued.
However, I'm not picturing how you would swap characters mid fight unless they are dead.
Is that what the [target=party1target,help,nodead] is for? If it is: wouldn't you have to target the character you want to swap to?

If my "main" is dead or I want to change focus for whatever reason, I target whom I want to have as my "new lead" (with the dead main) and hit that button.

So... yes. :) [target=focustarget,help,nodead][target=party1target,help,nodead] lets me assign ANYONE as my new main -- it'll pick whomever I'm targeting, even if I'm not playing that person. This line does not care if your focus is dead or alive -- if you're pressing the button, it assumes you know what you're doing. You can even target yourself, and it'll work (as long as your target -- yourself -- is not dead). I mean, if you REALLY want to focus on a dead person as your main, you just have to alter it to [target=focustarget,help][target=party1target,help].

In Karazhan I had Suvega's mage as my "main assist" and just had my alts follow his mage around and assist that mage to get their targets. He walked his mages/priest around to avoid the infernals, and I focused on moving my paladin tank. If Suvega's mage were to die or disconnect or whatever, I'd hit my /clearfocus button, target one of suvega's OTHER mages (with my "default main" based on priority -- see detailed walkthrough below), and hit my focus macro listed above in order for them to pick up a new assist/follow target.

Line 1 of my macro is there to prevent the case where you're using /focus for CC, since you don't want to [target=focustarget,help,nodead] when your focus is an enemy.

This is starting to get confusing so I will simply walk through the macro:
/clearfocus [target=focus,nohelp] <-- if I am using focus on an enemy, clear it or I'll end up focusing on the enemy's target, which is not what I want. I can change this line to /stopmacro [target=focus,harm,nodead] if I never want to clear my CC focus target.
/target [target=focustarget,help,nodead] Focus on whomever my focus is targeting. That is, if I'm using a focus-based system, I should now focus (make new leader) whomever my leader is targeting
...[target=party1target,help,nodead]... If I am using party-leader based targeting, focus (make leader using focus-based targeting) on whomever my leader is targeting. You can alter this macro to add a modifier to ignore this line (i.e. nomodifier:shift) in case you're doing BGs and you have no control over party leadership -- in which case you hit shift+macro to ignore party-based leadership.
...[target=party1,help,nodead]... Otherwise, grab my next-highest-priority person. In this case, you can specify a name instead of "party1" ( [target=Bob,help,nodead] ), or you can say "default to party leader based focusing". Or both. I'll detail that below.
...[target=party2,help,nodead][target=party3,help,nodead][target=party4,help,nodead] Continue to next-highest-priority person. Again, you can use party-based priorities or you can specify names, as you choose. (i.e. [target=Bill,help,nodead][target=Joe,help,nodead]). If you do NOT use specific names and end up using party names, you will have to figure out the default party layout for your team (it's based on character creation date) and enter [target=player,nodead] where appropriate in order to prevent a focus loop. It's kinda complicated to explain in short, but for those already using party-based systems they should already know how to do this. I can elaborate in a seperate thread if you like.
/focus [help,nodead]
/p Focusing on: %f Focus and spit out what you're doing in party chat (particularly useful for "debugging"). If you want to get really fancy, add /promote [help,nodead] to also assign party leadership to your new focus target.

Another useful all-in-one priority based target system for the particularly picky:
/target [target=focustarget,help][target=party1target,help,nomodifier:shift][target=party1,help,nodead,nomodifier:shift][target=Bob,help,nodead][target=Bill,help,nodead][target=Joe,help,nodead][target=party2,help,nodead,nomodifier:shift][target=party3,help,nodead,nomodifier:shift][target=party4,help,nodead,nomodifier:shift]
(I'll let you read this yourself, but in summation it's "new lead is whomever my current lead is targetting, regardless of dead/alive", "never use party-based leadership when I'm holding shift", "otherwise use party leader, as long as I'm not holding shift" , "If my current lead is targeting an enemy/nothing, choose a person based on name-based priority", "if that doesn't work then use party-priority as long as I'm not holding shift".)


I love building macros, if you haven't already guessed. ;)

[algol]

I was using exists,nodead instead in case one is out of range or not online...maybe it's redundant.

[Vyndree]

"help" and "nohelp" implies "exists"

Not sure about "dead"/"nodead" though...

[Kaynin]

"help" and "nohelp" implies "exists"

Not sure about "dead"/"nodead" though...

do too.

For PvP and such gotta be careful tho, if you use nodead modifiers in your dps abilities for example. Feigned hunters count as dead :P

[Vyndree]

"help" and "nohelp" implies "exists"

Not sure about "dead"/"nodead" though...

do too.

For PvP and such gotta be careful tho, if you use nodead modifiers in your dps abilities for example. Feigned hunters count as dead :P

It's a two-sided coin. Either /stopmacro [noharm][dead] or risk a /petattack or /startattack randomly choosing the next person to shoot. ;) That's my conundrum.

[algol]

It's a two-sided coin. Either /stopmacro [noharm][dead] or risk a /petattack or /startattack randomly choosing the next person to shoot. ;) That's my conundrum.
My hunters and warlocks were pretty incredible to level, but they kept doing that...O_o

Hurray for appropriately-written macros, eh?