Maybe something like this is what elemental shammies need?

[magwo]

I was thinking about solo elemental shammies and how tough it must be to play them in PvP.
Now.. enhancement has a mechanic that eventually will make your next offensive spell cast an instant.

What if elemental needs something like this, but in a defensive fashion? Like this:

Every time you are critically hit, the casting time of your next healing spell is reduced by 0.5 seconds. This effect stacks up to 4 times.

[Kaynin]

Anti-polymorph ghost wolf form.

Something like that is what I hope for tbh. Would solve arena viability problems quite a bit. We'll always be a defensive playstyle in PvP, true. But I don't think making a heal instant makes much difference. The ability to kite might on a consistant bases however.

[Clone]

Id have to agree with Kaynin on this. If we are getting beaten on in arena we need a way to get away rather than trying to walk away healing ourselves.

[Dominian]

Anti-polymorph ghost wolf form.

Something like that is what I hope for tbh. Would solve arena viability problems quite a bit. We'll always be a defensive playstyle in PvP, true. But I don't think making a heal instant makes much difference. The ability to kite might on a consistant bases however.

I could agree that maybe ench shamans could need it but there is no need for elemental/resto.

You got 3 ways of avoiding this:

1.Los and poly is quite easy to los
2.Earth Shock
3.Grounding totem

In addition your team mate or mates atleast have 1 way to interrupt it, so i disagree that poly is a problem to a elemental shaman. So i dont see why solo boxing shamans should have any need for this at all im afraid.

Now the main problem is beeing focused by meele, and the only thing you can do is thunderstorm and flamshock/earth shock/frost shock. Not nearly enough to kill a rogue/retadin/warrior/feral druid.

The idea was actually to make ghost wolf break snares in the launch of WOTLK but blizzard went away from this due to it was "To close to the druids core talent shapeshifting" I do assume they feel the same way about ghost wolf breaking poly.

I totaly agree with you that a self heal wont fix anything since our worst enemy is rogue who already apply wound poison.

[Ellay]

I just want more passive stuff, the biggest thing I'd like and Blizz mentioned it as one thing their looking into is more HP for Shamans. It'd be nice if I had the same base HP as a plate wearing class :)

[Owltoid]

You guys think elemental shamans need more tools? Lol.

[pinotnoir]

Elemental shaman have to be the worst pvp class. If anyone doesnt agree I suggest they log in 1 shaman and try to pvp. Too many classes can kill you 100-0% without any ability to flee or heal.

[magwo]

Aye, solo shammies really got it hard in WOTLK with all the added interrupt effects.

[Gares]

That and with the additions of DK's they got spanked so hard its not even funny.

[Dominian]

You guys think elemental shamans need more tools? Lol.

Were talking singel boxing here not multiboxing mainly.

[Kaynin]

Anti-polymorph ghost wolf form.

Something like that is what I hope for tbh. Would solve arena viability problems quite a bit. We'll always be a defensive playstyle in PvP, true. But I don't think making a heal instant makes much difference. The ability to kite might on a consistant bases however.

I could agree that maybe ench shamans could need it but there is no need for elemental/resto.

You got 3 ways of avoiding this:

1.Los and poly is quite easy to los
2.Earth Shock
3.Grounding totem

In addition your team mate or mates atleast have 1 way to interrupt it, so i disagree that poly is a problem to a elemental shaman. So i dont see why solo boxing shamans should have any need for this at all im afraid.

Now the main problem is beeing focused by meele, and the only thing you can do is thunderstorm and flamshock/earth shock/frost shock. Not nearly enough to kill a rogue/retadin/warrior/feral druid.

The idea was actually to make ghost wolf break snares in the launch of WOTLK but blizzard went away from this due to it was "To close to the druids core talent shapeshifting" I do assume they feel the same way about ghost wolf breaking poly.

I totaly agree with you that a self heal wont fix anything since our worst enemy is rogue who already apply wound poison.

If it was anti-polymorph it means you can use it to get out to roots and stuffs. (like druid shapeshifting). That's what I mean. Not just to counter polymorph. :P

[Owltoid]

If it was anti-polymorph it means you can use it to get out to roots and stuffs. (like druid shapeshifting). That's what I mean. Not just to counter polymorph. :P

Sure, but lets also add on that in order to heal you have to be naked so your insane armor goes down... Everyone knows that Blizzard doesn' give a crap about 1v1 or single players, but instead how the class works with a group. I don't think there's any question that an ele shaman has all the tools, and many more than other classes, to succeed in a group environment.

[Kaynin]

If it was anti-polymorph it means you can use it to get out to roots and stuffs. (like druid shapeshifting). That's what I mean. Not just to counter polymorph. :P

Sure, but lets also add on that in order to heal you have to be naked so your insane armor goes down... Everyone knows that Blizzard doesn' give a crap about 1v1 or single players, but instead how the class works with a group. I don't think there's any question that an ele shaman has all the tools, and many more than other classes, to succeed in a group environment.

Read the thread + solo shaman in arena, try it.

come back when you have a clue.

[Dominian]

Anti-polymorph ghost wolf form.

Something like that is what I hope for tbh. Would solve arena viability problems quite a bit. We'll always be a defensive playstyle in PvP, true. But I don't think making a heal instant makes much difference. The ability to kite might on a consistant bases however.

I could agree that maybe ench shamans could need it but there is no need for elemental/resto.

You got 3 ways of avoiding this:

1.Los and poly is quite easy to los
2.Earth Shock
3.Grounding totem

In addition your team mate or mates atleast have 1 way to interrupt it, so i disagree that poly is a problem to a elemental shaman. So i dont see why solo boxing shamans should have any need for this at all im afraid.

Now the main problem is beeing focused by meele, and the only thing you can do is thunderstorm and flamshock/earth shock/frost shock. Not nearly enough to kill a rogue/retadin/warrior/feral druid.

The idea was actually to make ghost wolf break snares in the launch of WOTLK but blizzard went away from this due to it was "To close to the druids core talent shapeshifting" I do assume they feel the same way about ghost wolf breaking poly.

I totaly agree with you that a self heal wont fix anything since our worst enemy is rogue who already apply wound poison.

If it was anti-polymorph it means you can use it to get out to roots and stuffs. (like druid shapeshifting). That's what I mean. Not just to counter polymorph. :P

Like i said this was considered to be to close to the druids core talent to happen! :)

[Owltoid]

If it was anti-polymorph it means you can use it to get out to roots and stuffs. (like druid shapeshifting). That's what I mean. Not just to counter polymorph. :P

Sure, but lets also add on that in order to heal you have to be naked so your insane armor goes down... Everyone knows that Blizzard doesn' give a crap about 1v1 or single players, but instead how the class works with a group. I don't think there's any question that an ele shaman has all the tools, and many more than other classes, to succeed in a group environment.

Read the thread + solo shaman in arena, try it.

come back when you have a clue.

Good point. Blizzard needs to add an ability to shamans as long as they're not in a group, but remove the ability if grouped... I think druids should be able to have fear protection. Of course that would be OP if they were part of a group, but it sucks being feared in duels so I'd still like it. Thoughts?

[Kaynin]

What part of arena do you not understand? :P

No one is talking about 1on1, just you.

[Owltoid]

I was thinking about solo elemental shammies and how tough it must be to play them in PvP....


Elemental shaman have to be the worst pvp class. If anyone doesnt agree I suggest they log in 1 shaman and try to pvp. Too many classes can kill you 100-0% without any ability to flee or heal.

Some are talking about arena, some are talking about general PvP with a solo elemental (note the OP didn't say anything about arena). If someone is asking for more tools to use in a 1v1 situation, then they have a leg to stand on (though we know Blizzard doesn't balance to 1v1 or playing without support in BGs). If someone is asking for more ele shaman tools to use in arena (as you apparently are), then wow... gl with that one. I guess healing w/o penalty, spell interruption, massive knockback, solid insta-cast damage, passive fear and spell protection, and high armor just aren't enough for some :thumbup:

[Dominian]

I was thinking about solo elemental shammies and how tough it must be to play them in PvP....


Elemental shaman have to be the worst pvp class. If anyone doesnt agree I suggest they log in 1 shaman and try to pvp. Too many classes can kill you 100-0% without any ability to flee or heal.

Some are talking about arena, some are talking about general PvP with a solo elemental (note the OP didn't say anything about arena). If someone is asking for more tools to use in a 1v1 situation, then they have a leg to stand on (though we know Blizzard doesn't balance to 1v1 or playing without support in BGs). If someone is asking for more ele shaman tools to use in arena (as you apparently are), then wow... gl with that one. I guess healing w/o penalty, spell interruption, massive knockback, solid insta-cast damage, passive fear and spell protection, and high armor just aren't enough for some :thumbup:

Stop making a fool out of yourself, have you even read the patch notes for 3.1?

Elemental and ench shamans arent given any instant hots like both boomkin and ferals get, i would suggest you to try and get a casted heal off when a rogue/warrior/dk is hammering you with 3 interrupts. (I know how dk's eats hot thought and its destroying resto druids atm)

Neither tremor totem or grounding totem is passive, they take 2 global cooldowns and got 5 hp. Passive means you would be immune to a fear wich you not, it certainly breaks but it does interrupt whatever your casting.

From my pov you dont know anything about the shaman class at all.

All pvp changes today is done towards arena and bgs is pretty much ignored.

[Owltoid]

Stop making a fool out of yourself, have you even read the patch notes for 3.1?

Elemental and ench shamans arent given any instant hots like both boomkin and ferals get, i would suggest you to try and get a casted heal off when a rogue/warrior/dk is hammering you with 3 interrupts. (I know how dk's eats hot thought and its destroying resto druids atm)

Neither tremor totem or grounding totem is passive, they take 2 global cooldowns and got 5 hp. Passive means you would be immune to a fear wich you not, it certainly breaks but it does interrupt whatever your casting.

From my pov you dont know anything about the shaman class at all.

All pvp changes today is done towards arena and bgs is pretty much ignored.

Um, wow, ok.

1.) If a boomkin/feral tries to heal with a rogue/warrior/DK beating on him, then they lose their armor. I'm not sure about your experiences, but I won't even survive long enough for two HoT ticks without some armor mitigation. Those intant heals sure do work wonders! If they can interrupt your spell with less than a 2 second casting time, you don't think they can stun a druid while in caster form without any armor?

2.) Tremor and grounding totems are considered passive because you don't need to react to something in order to get their benefit. Fear ward is considered passive even though you need to cast it beforehand (just like a totem). Fear ward can be dispelled just like a totem can be killed. The fact the the totems aren't all powerful doesn't mean they're not passive. You're correct that the tremor totem doesn't break fear immediately and it still interrupts casting... wow, big deal for party wide protection.

I'll admit that I don't know a ton about shamans, but I do know that ele's are fine and certainly don't need more tools to survive in arena.

[Kaynin]

I'll admit that I don't know a ton about shamans, but I do know that ele's are fine and certainly don't need more tools to survive in arena.


that's the thing, right now shamans are the prome target for every group in arena. Because they are silly easy to kill, have zero survivability and no utility to kite effectively.

You might be able to win quite decently at around 1300 rating or so as a shaman, but we lack in every aspect to climb very high in arena. Enhancement shaman is still pretty decent because they dont rely on casting. But an elemental shaman, is just focused, nuked and killed in under 5 seconds without the shaman being able to do a thing against decent teams. Nothing.

It's like feeling absolutely powerless.

So, unless you try elemental in arena first, don't say they are fine, because they are not.

I've been high rated with a few classes, one of which was enhancement shaman btw, and quite high with my box too in arena. But elemental shaman just doens't stand a chance in arena when being played solo. Simple as that.

[Dominian]

Stop making a fool out of yourself, have you even read the patch notes for 3.1?

Elemental and ench shamans arent given any instant hots like both boomkin and ferals get, i would suggest you to try and get a casted heal off when a rogue/warrior/dk is hammering you with 3 interrupts. (I know how dk's eats hot thought and its destroying resto druids atm)

Neither tremor totem or grounding totem is passive, they take 2 global cooldowns and got 5 hp. Passive means you would be immune to a fear wich you not, it certainly breaks but it does interrupt whatever your casting.

From my pov you dont know anything about the shaman class at all.

All pvp changes today is done towards arena and bgs is pretty much ignored.

Um, wow, ok.

1.) If a boomkin/feral tries to heal with a rogue/warrior/DK beating on him, then they lose their armor. I'm not sure about your experiences, but I won't even survive long enough for two HoT ticks without some armor mitigation. Those intant heals sure do work wonders! If they can interrupt your spell with less than a 2 second casting time, you don't think they can stun a druid while in caster form without any armor?

2.) Tremor and grounding totems are considered passive because you don't need to react to something in order to get their benefit. Fear ward is considered passive even though you need to cast it beforehand (just like a totem). Fear ward can be dispelled just like a totem can be killed. The fact the the totems aren't all powerful doesn't mean they're not passive. You're correct that the tremor totem doesn't break fear immediately and it still interrupts casting... wow, big deal for party wide protection.

I'll admit that I don't know a ton about shamans, but I do know that ele's are fine and certainly don't need more tools to survive in arena.

1. The difference between oomkin and elemental shamans is that oomkins can normaly choose when and were to start the fight, while elemental shaman either have to wait or rush. Rushing isnt a very good option since it takes us 4 seconds to get our totems out, any half decent priest meele down our tremor and drop the fear bomb. Rogues actually have to stun you while they can spend combo points on damage dealing vs us, not to mention dismantle take our INSANE armour away. Your seeing fear as a insane treath most likley because you mutlibox but in normal pvp its actually a quite weak CC, and thats due to the amounts of counters. Easy counters towards remowing tremor totems, lets say for warlocks is to /target tremor /petattack.

2. A buff that have to be placed in combat is NOT what i would consider a passive buff, its certainly not like fear ward wich you buff before the gate goes up. Neither would i consider abolish poison a passive buff, but it do have a some kind of passive effect. Tremor totem have 30 yards range, wich means if i play with a meele i have to get within 30 yards of him and drop it while good teams kite us away from our totems in order to make ME waste time.

[5fingersofdoom]

With the overall increase in damage i'd love to see Blizz bring out Heavy Mail for Shammies.
I'd say Hunters too but I don't have my flameproof suit with me today. :D

[Alemi]

Um, wow, ok.

1.) If a boomkin/feral tries to heal with a rogue/warrior/DK beating on him, then they lose their armor. I'm not sure about your experiences, but I won't even survive long enough for two HoT ticks without some armor mitigation. Those intant heals sure do work wonders! If they can interrupt your spell with less than a 2 second casting time, you don't think they can stun a druid while in caster form without any armor?

2.) Tremor and grounding totems are considered passive because you don't need to react to something in order to get their benefit. Fear ward is considered passive even though you need to cast it beforehand (just like a totem). Fear ward can be dispelled just like a totem can be killed. The fact the the totems aren't all powerful doesn't mean they're not passive. You're correct that the tremor totem doesn't break fear immediately and it still interrupts casting... wow, big deal for party wide protection.

I'll admit that I don't know a ton about shamans, but I do know that ele's are fine and certainly don't need more tools to survive in arena.A couple of points here.

To number one: Elemental shaman are as bad as holy priests in arena atm. I'm always targeted first regardless of what comp I'm playing or what comp I'm facing. Why? Because my only instant spells are shocks. If I cast ANY kind of damage spell I open my entire nature school to a lockout. This includes all my heals. If my nature school is locked, I can't heal, but thank god for Lava Burst right? Sit around for 8 seconds while you school is chain locked out and see how much fun that is. Priests are the same way with holy. We're far too easy to take down atm, because we don't have instant spells to rely on. And hey, at least you get your hots off - I just sit there and get kicked/pummeled/mind frozen/earth shocked by enhancement shams/counterspelled/spell locked/silenced by a shadow priest/shield bashed/silence shot and then sit there while i can't cast a damn thing. Oh wait, I can refresh my water shield or an earthbind totem while I'm spamstrung/crip poisoned/concussive shot/mind flayed/slowed/frostbolt/chains of iced/repentenced/hammer of justiced/cheap shot/kidney shot/intimidated/feared/death coiled until I'm dead.

Do you see a pattern here?

To number two: You're incorrect by the definition of passive. Tremor Totem, Grounding Totem, and Fear Ward (all your examples) are NOT passive. Passive by definition (and by game definition, might I add) are abilities that don't require a cast or racials that don't require a cast. Passive resistance, stun resist, hp modifications, armor boosts, etc. etc. Take a look in your spellbook, I'm sure you'll find some "passive" abilties there. None of these are listed above.

To your quote "ele's are fine" : Blizzard disagrees with you per the 3.10 patch notes going to the PTR. The quote :
We are also working on giving Enhancement and Elemental more PvP utility.This indicates that elementals are not fine in the eyes of Blizzard. Since it's their game, I trust their judgement and their expertise on this - and you are incorrect.

I think there's something wrong with having 750 resilience and still getting hit for 5k by rogues with mail armor and shield personally. I feel worse for my priests who can't survive in a 2s match much less a 5s match because they're constantly being locked out and silenced.

Your quote on "I guess healing w/o penalty, spell interruption, massive knockback, solid insta-cast damage, passive fear and spell protection, and high armor just aren't enough for some" shows how little you know about the shaman class. Healing w/o penalty? laughable. Spell interruption - yes, which share the same cooldown as our kiting ability and our flame shock which we need for lava bursts. GG. Massive knockback? Once ever 45 seconds which is countered by shadowstep, death grip, intercept, feral charge. etc. etc. Solid-insta cast damage? Are you kidding me? Passive fear and spell protection - grounding totems take 1 spell on a 11 second (talented and pvp set reducted) cooldown, so it eats one arcane barrage but that entire arcane missle comes at us. High armor? As has been stated, our "high armor" still allows us to get hit for 5k, and further dismanteld by a rogue takes away what little block we have.

[magwo]

Um, wow, ok.

1.) If a boomkin/feral tries to heal with a rogue/warrior/DK beating on him, then they lose their armor. I'm not sure about your experiences, but I won't even survive long enough for two HoT ticks without some armor mitigation. Those intant heals sure do work wonders! If they can interrupt your spell with less than a 2 second casting time, you don't think they can stun a druid while in caster form without any armor?

2.) Tremor and grounding totems are considered passive because you don't need to react to something in order to get their benefit. Fear ward is considered passive even though you need to cast it beforehand (just like a totem). Fear ward can be dispelled just like a totem can be killed. The fact the the totems aren't all powerful doesn't mean they're not passive. You're correct that the tremor totem doesn't break fear immediately and it still interrupts casting... wow, big deal for party wide protection.

I'll admit that I don't know a ton about shamans, but I do know that ele's are fine and certainly don't need more tools to survive in arena.A couple of points here.

To number one: Elemental shaman are as bad as holy priests in arena atm. I'm always targeted first regardless of what comp I'm playing or what comp I'm facing. Why? Because my only instant spells are shocks. If I cast ANY kind of damage spell I open my entire nature school to a lockout. This includes all my heals. If my nature school is locked, I can't heal, but thank god for Lava Burst right? Sit around for 8 seconds while you school is chain locked out and see how much fun that is. Priests are the same way with holy. We're far too easy to take down atm, because we don't have instant spells to rely on. And hey, at least you get your hots off - I just sit there and get kicked/pummeled/mind frozen/earth shocked by enhancement shams/counterspelled/spell locked/silenced by a shadow priest/shield bashed/silence shot and then sit there while i can't cast a damn thing. Oh wait, I can refresh my water shield or an earthbind totem while I'm spamstrung/crip poisoned/concussive shot/mind flayed/slowed/frostbolt/chains of iced/repentenced/hammer of justiced/cheap shot/kidney shot/intimidated/feared/death coiled until I'm dead.

Do you see a pattern here?

To number two: You're incorrect by the definition of passive. Tremor Totem, Grounding Totem, and Fear Ward (all your examples) are NOT passive. Passive by definition (and by game definition, might I add) are abilities that don't require a cast or racials that don't require a cast. Passive resistance, stun resist, hp modifications, armor boosts, etc. etc. Take a look in your spellbook, I'm sure you'll find some "passive" abilties there. None of these are listed above.

To your quote "ele's are fine" : Blizzard disagrees with you per the 3.10 patch notes going to the PTR. The quote :
We are also working on giving Enhancement and Elemental more PvP utility.This indicates that elementals are not fine in the eyes of Blizzard. Since it's their game, I trust their judgement and their expertise on this - and you are incorrect.

I think there's something wrong with having 750 resilience and still getting hit for 5k by rogues with mail armor and shield personally. I feel worse for my priests who can't survive in a 2s match much less a 5s match because they're constantly being locked out and silenced.

Your quote on "I guess healing w/o penalty, spell interruption, massive knockback, solid insta-cast damage, passive fear and spell protection, and high armor just aren't enough for some" shows how little you know about the shaman class. Healing w/o penalty? laughable. Spell interruption - yes, which share the same cooldown as our kiting ability and our flame shock which we need for lava bursts. GG. Massive knockback? Once ever 45 seconds which is countered by shadowstep, death grip, intercept, feral charge. etc. etc. Solid-insta cast damage? Are you kidding me? Passive fear and spell protection - grounding totems take 1 spell on a 11 second (talented and pvp set reducted) cooldown, so it eats one arcane barrage but that entire arcane missle comes at us. High armor? As has been stated, our "high armor" still allows us to get hit for 5k, and further dismanteld by a rogue takes away what little block we have.


Good points. Some classes in arena are currently just buckling under the vast amount of CC and burst - let's hope for changes. There's something wrong when 4x hybrid casters can't keep a 5th member alive by constantly spamming heals.


A big problem in 5v5 is that the only class that can counter MS effects is paladin, which makes paladin (holy or retri) a must-have in all performant 5v5s at the moment.

Either MS effect needs a nerf (~20-30% reduction) or other classes need some way to counter it.

[Tizer]

i thought it would be quite nice to reduce the cooldown time on hex & say, if target has flame shock applied to it the when in range of a magma totem, the damage from said magma totem will be a 100% chance of a crit. Plus as ellay says, passive abilities to make us a little more solid would be ace!

[Kruschpakx4]

Elemental Shaman NEEDS

-Instant Lava Burst with 8 sec cd
-Reduced Cooldown on Thunderstorm like 15 sec and does less damage
-Hex 1 sec cast time
-More HP
-Thunderstorm +8% mana and HP

Now ele shaman is useable in 2v2 and 3v3 :>

It would be fucking OP for multiboxing :D

[Dominian]

Elemental Shaman NEEDS

-Instant Lava Burst with 8 sec cd
-Reduced Cooldown on Thunderstorm like 15 sec and does less damage
-Hex 1 sec cast time
-More HP
-Thunderstorm +8% mana and HP

Now ele shaman is useable in 2v2 and 3v3 :>

It would be fucking OP for multiboxing :D

The instant Lava burst isnt to bad on paper and it critts for about 6-7k on targets with decent resillience, It would however make out pve dps go crazy and the nerf train wouldnt be far away.

Thunderstorm on a 15 sec cooldown would be extremley annoying even if i had it myself and with 4 shamans non would get close and you would never get oom either!

Cant see why hex shouldnt be instant when there is so manny counters to it, wouldnt be OP for either pve or pvp, would be extremley OP on resto shamans though as they are already the second best healer in the game atm!

The HP pool should indeed go up and i belive we can expect that from what GC said.

Gaining 8% hp would not change much since you normaly have the MS debuff when you need it the most.

It will certainly be intresting to see what new changes that is incomming, even a small change can be awsome. Sadly a big change can also be useless to us! :)

[magwo]

It would however make out pve dps go crazy and the nerf train wouldnt be far away.


Not really. In fact, not at all? The instant lava burst would trigger a GC of 1.5 seconds, equal to its current casting time. So pve dps would stay the same.