Behavior profiling?

[Starbuck_Jones]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/30/Superbowl.security/index.html

While it doesn't say what authority, if any, these people have to do anything if they find a behavior person, it still scares the crap out of me that they are doing this.

[Yamio]

As the article states, It's new to major sporting events, but behavior & body language profiling isn't new by any means. The government, trained security personnel, as well as Lost Prevention officers in *most* big chain stores, (Kmart, Walmart, Neiman Marcus etc) have been using these techniques for a really long time. Every store you walk into that has cameras potentially has someone working them who has been trained extensively to read body language. When someone has been tagged as being suspicious, security and Lost Prevention officers will often move in to spy on someone from around the corner just so they can see get a better view of that person.

My best friend used to teach interviewing techniques (interrogation) for a company called Wicklander. He also had lots of training in body language profiling. It's frightening to think how many of these guys are out there among us. You've been profiled more times than you can possibly imagine.

Pro tip: Stay off your cellphone when you're in a store or anyplace else where these guys may be. Someone casually talking on the phone is one of the quickest flags they look for.

[Starbuck_Jones]

Store cops looking for shoplifters and eye in the sky looking for cheaters at a casino is one thing. Plane clothed TSA agents roaming the public streets is secret police big brother Nazi.

This is as bad as a high power bill enough probable cause for a warrant to search a house for pot growing.

http://www.theagitator.com/2004/03/28/drug-war-idiocy/

2008's DefCon had Scott Multon (sp?) talk about the laws some states are passing in regards to having a PI license to do computer repair involving data. To make a long story short what stuck with me most is that we as citizens of this nation are allowing this stuff to happen and the only way it can be stopped is by getting involved in the political process.

Did you know that in Michigan where a license is required you cannot obtain one till age 25? WTF!

[Hachoo]

Store cops looking for shoplifters and eye in the sky looking for cheaters at a casino is one thing. Plane clothed TSA agents roaming the public streets is secret police big brother Nazi.

This is as bad as a high power bill enough probable cause for a warrant to search a house for pot growing.

http://www.theagitator.com/2004/03/28/drug-war-idiocy/

2008's DefCon had Scott Multon (sp?) talk about the laws some states are passing in regards to having a PI license to do computer repair involving data. To make a long story short what stuck with me most is that we as citizens of this nation are allowing this stuff to happen and the only way it can be stopped is by getting involved in the political process.

Did you know that in Michigan where a license is required you cannot obtain one till age 25? WTF!Nowhere in the first article did it say anything about plain clothes dressed TSA agents roaming the streets. It specifically said the TSA agents will be wearing their uniforms, and that they will be investigating only from outside the stadium and some of the hotels in the area. I think your paranoia level is about 3 notches too high.

[Yamio]

I don't think this is the first time they've done a major sporting event either. I think this is probably the first time it has been advertised publicly.

[jettzypher]

Nowhere in the first article did it say anything about plain clothes dressed TSA agents roaming the streets. It specifically said the TSA agents will be wearing their uniforms, and that they will be investigating only from outside the stadium and some of the hotels in the area. I think your paranoia level is about 3 notches too high. he was stating a point that this is nothing new and that its been going on for awhile.

[jdpatt]

Sorry, double post

[jdpatt]

I think there's a world of difference between "secret police big brother Nazi" and what these guys are doing...a WORLD of difference.

If you're out in public (or in plain sight), you have no expectation of privacy...cops hitting your house with a search warrant because you have a high electric bill is one thing; you have an expectation in your own home to not be bothered by the government unless they can establish probable cause that there's something illegal or unsafe going on. Smoking a joint walking down the street is quite another.

How you conduct yourself in public is, quite simply, a matter of public interest...public record, if you will. If these guys are trained to spot certain behaviors consistent with certain activities, more power to them. It still, at that point, doesn't necessarily allow them to "hassle" you, but it does give them targets to focus more attention on.

For example, a person talking loudly and staggering might be drunk, he might be hard of hearing and injured, or just excited and disabled. The behavior alone may cause security to pay a little more attention to him. If he acts up, starts a fight, or gets disruptive, they'll be in a better situation to intervene before things get out of control. If he doesn't misbehave, no harm is done.

I have had the training, mentioned above, by the Wicklander company (Wicklander-Zukowski, if I recall), and they do teach some amazing things. It doesn't allow me, as a police officer, to arrest or detain a suspected terrorist simply because he fits a profile...but it teaches me things to look for, to better focus my attention. I doubt it's as simple to spot potential terrorists as looking for the guy sweating and praying, holding a duffel bag...the training these people get may be wrong 99% of the time. As long as they don't overstep their bounds, there's really nothing to complain about.

Dave

[Bettysue]

Behavior profiling is a great tool that usually works to limit the unnecessary harassment of the regular guy. If you are doing something suspicious it's possible there will be a couple more eyes on you, however, unless you do something dangerous to others or yourself, or exhibit behavior that may incite dangerous behavior from others, you probably won't even know you were being watched. The TSA has a pretty decent hands off the quiet guy approach, but they have their hands tied because they can not search based only upon meeting a certain demographic or profile. This is why the guy that dresses up in a bullet proof vest, and carries 30 tubes full of sand in his carry-on gets the same screening as the 80 year old grandmother in a wheelchair. Our own "protect your public rights" groups make it so you get harassed when you're doing nothing, it's not the cops or TSA that do it.
Go somewhere like South Korea, Mongolia, or Romania, and try to argue with the armed officers in the airport, or on the street and it probably won't end well for you. If they think you are suspicious because you look like you are from the same group of people that attacked last time you WILL be searched. I guess what I'm saying is go to the superbowl have fun go home and realize that security probably watched you all day and never once interrupted your enjoyment of the event. They work so you can enjoy the game without wondering about how to exit the venue when a riot starts, or which places to avoid in case of an explosion. Don't worry about their presence and you will probably forget they are there.

[valkry]

As the article states, It's new to major sporting events, but behavior & body language profiling isn't new by any means. The government, trained security personnel, as well as Lost Prevention officers in *most* big chain stores, (Kmart, Walmart, Neiman Marcus etc) have been using these techniques for a really long time. Every store you walk into that has cameras potentially has someone working them who has been trained extensively to read body language. When someone has been tagged as being suspicious, security and Lost Prevention officers will often move in to spy on someone from around the corner just so they can see get a better view of that person.

My best friend used to teach interviewing techniques (interrogation) for a company called Wicklander. He also had lots of training in body language profiling. It's frightening to think how many of these guys are out there among us. You've been profiled more times than you can possibly imagine.

Pro tip: Stay off your cellphone when you're in a store or anyplace else where these guys may be. Someone casually talking on the phone is one of the quickest flags they look for.
Pro tip: If you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about. I talk on my mobile in shops all the time.

Godwin's law didn't take long to kick in with this thread lol.

[RobinGBrown]

Pro tip: If you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about. I talk on my mobile in shops all the time.

Pro tip: You're always commiting an offence, so if a police officer decides to arrest you, he will

Police personnel seem to find it very hard to maintain an 'innocent until proven guilty' attitude, they much prefer to 'shoot now and ask questions later' and that is why you should be afraid of all these additional police powers. Innocent people _do_ get shot and killed.

[Khatovar]

Innocent people get shot and kllled far more often by people breaking the law than they do by people enforcing the law.

Profilling and things like this are not by any means all that actions are based on. That's like saying blondes are dumb, so no company will ever hire a blonde for work outside of Hooters. Or that women can't use math, so no company will hire a female accountant. Or that men are insensitive, so they can never be therapists. That's absurd.

[valkry]

Oh, sorry, that's right lol, you guys are seppos. I forget how fucked up it is over there sometimes.

Abuse aside, there is always a reason behind why innocent people get killed. Although sometimes it's cos the cop is high, pissed and in a really bad mood... and is a seppo.

[Yamio]

Valkry~

I knew from you being in Australia that you had no idea what-so-ever of what day to day life is in America and your Godwin's Law remark was best left ignored. You're right. It can be fucked up over here.

[valkry]

Valkry~

I knew from you being in Australia that you had no idea what-so-ever of what day to day life is in America and your Godwin's Law remark was best left ignored. You're right. It can be fucked up over here.
I don't need to know about America, being Australian is enough to poke fun at you guys by using stereotypes, it's what we do. I knew you being from America you have no idea what day to day life is in Australia.

The Godwin's Law remark was a joke, dunno why you took it seriously, even though it is true.

[Yamio]

In the words of the Immortal Wilbur...

Don't care.

[valkry]

In the words of the Immortal Wilbur...

Don't care.
If you really didn't, you wouldn't post that. It's just like ignoring someone and then announcing to trade chat that you ignored them.

[Yamio]

Naw. I was just doing everything I could to not allow you to not have the last word.

I know you can't resist the bait. :thumbsup:

[valkry]

Naw. I was just doing everything I could to not allow you to not have the last word.

I know you can't resist the bait. :thumbsup:
But ofc...

<-- self-confessed troll.